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Xipe Totec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-24-10 07:04 PM
Original message
Is it time to call for class warfare?
Real persons against artificial corporate persons?
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Peregrine Took Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-24-10 07:07 PM
Response to Original message
1. Yes. There is and has been a war against the poor and the middle class. n/t
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Posteritatis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-24-10 07:08 PM
Response to Original message
2. yes! we'll declare war and.. uh... chant slogans! or something! that'll fix everything! (nt)
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kudzu22 Donating Member (426 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #2
38. Can I get a "hey hey ho ho"?
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leftygolfer Donating Member (287 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-24-10 07:09 PM
Response to Original message
3. I'm in
If there is an organized effort, let me know. If things continue like they've been for me, I may "go rogue." I'm just at wits end. I need a win in my life. So depressed.
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Taitertots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-24-10 07:10 PM
Response to Original message
4. Why get made at inanimate entities?
Get mad at the ultra rich would control them. Don't be mad at Walmart, be mad at the Walton family.

Don't get mad at the corporations, for everyone of them you destroy the oligarchs will make ten more.
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Xipe Totec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-24-10 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Thank you very much for your input
I'll give it all the consideration it deserves.
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bread_and_roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-24-10 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. ROFL (n/t)
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Taitertots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-24-10 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. Let me know when your class war against corporations becomes anything more than a fantasy n/t
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Xipe Totec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-24-10 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Yes. That will definitely be my first priority. n/t
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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-24-10 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. We will. Thousands of people around the world are busy organizing reforms with the goal of moving
towards revolutionary conflict. Unfortunately, with so many lazy nihilists in the US, we'll probably be the last nation to change. If its only a "fantasy" maybe that's because the lazy people waiting to jump on the bandwagon ridicule those trying to build the bandwagon. C'est la vie.
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-24-10 07:24 PM
Response to Original message
7. Seems fair.
Since class warfare's been called on us.
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Earth_First Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-24-10 07:25 PM
Response to Original message
8. Yep!
BEYOND time!
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FreakinDJ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-24-10 07:30 PM
Response to Original message
9. They declared WAR on the Working Class almost 30 years ago
Actually it is about time we fought back

America's Working Class almost began fighting back in 1992 but we elected Bill Clinton instead. The RATpubliCONs coined a catchy little phrase "Contract with America" and we working stiffs took the bait "Hook Line, and Sinker". In light of current events it has proven to be our own undoing

In 1992, the Wealthy Elite were so scared of our Working Class Angst, many of them "Refused" to ride to and fro the airport in Limousines. They were actually scared they would "be caught dead" in a limousine - but that is about as far as it went. Today they merely scoff at the plight of the working class as they give thereself $Billions in bonuses, trash the value of our largest investment, plunder the US Tax coffers
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Xipe Totec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-24-10 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #9
19. Elected Bill Clinton instead?
INteresting argument.

The alternative would have been?... :shrug:

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FreakinDJ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-24-10 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. The Cork Soaker exposing the wonders of Globalization
Poppy Bushit
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #19
32. Tom Harkin? (NT)
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-24-10 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #9
28. +1
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notesdev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-24-10 07:32 PM
Response to Original message
10. I think you mean
"is it time to start fighting back?"

Answer is hell yeah

This class war has been going on for generations, but only one side has been fighting.
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Xipe Totec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-24-10 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. The other side has been fighting too, but only at fractional strength
The rest has been sleeping through the battle.

It's time to stir them awake.
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pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-24-10 07:42 PM
Response to Original message
13. Oh man... I've still got injuries from fighting with Christmas
Gotta ask for a deferment until they heal...


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Xipe Totec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-24-10 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. You get three deferments, tops! After that you turn into a Dick
Cheney!

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Kaleva Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-24-10 07:43 PM
Response to Original message
14. Fighting against DU, a corporation, will earn one a tombstone.
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Xipe Totec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-24-10 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. I doubt it.
But thanks for playing!
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muntrv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-24-10 09:06 PM
Response to Original message
20. The Democrats should use the SCOTUS ruling as a wedge issue against
the republickers.
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FreakinDJ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-24-10 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #20
25. Frame as "Giving Rights to the Corps that Bankrupted America"
Now they have Inalienable Freedoms to Trash our Economy
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-24-10 09:10 PM
Response to Original message
21. "Call" for it? It's been waged for decades by the elite against the working class
but the working class doesn't fight back in this country. They're too busy just trying to survive...and watching the glass teat.

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anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-24-10 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. Replace the Church with the media and you have modern Corporate Capitalism.
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Sebastian Doyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-24-10 09:42 PM
Response to Original message
24. Class Warfare was declared January 20, 1981 and has never stopped since.
Edited on Sun Jan-24-10 09:43 PM by Sebastian Doyle
It's time to fight back.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-24-10 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. Class warfare is as old as civilization
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-24-10 09:45 PM
Response to Original message
26. Corporations are not to blame. Corporations are merely a tool of the dominant class...
to more effectively rule over the proles. Why attack the corporations that the rich use to shield and enrich themselves. Go after the rich instead.
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Xipe Totec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #26
29. How do you propose to go after the rich? Pitchforks and Torches? n/t
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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #26
33. Simply having money is not the problem.
Our problems are structural. If you make over x dollars of income you don't suddenly become the enemy. If you support the injustices and inequalities written in to the very structure of our failed system - be you rich or poor, then you are part of the problem.

The key is to challenge structural injustice and a failed system, not "hating" rich individuals merely for having more income.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. Capital accumulation does not happen by accident.
The laws that benefit the rich are a result of rich people's actions to improve and protect their wealth. You say to challenge a failed system. Why is the system failed? Because rich people own it and decided that it is in their best interests to have it become a failed system. The problem is fundamentally one of people.
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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #34
40. not all "rich" people are the same.
Edited on Mon Jan-25-10 07:37 PM by Political Heretic
Of course what you are suggesting happens as a generalized explanation. People with power and privilege, attempt to shape the government and the laws so that they have even more power and privilege. People representing institutional interests (large businesses, industries, financial sectors) come together and demand laws that benefit them without care or concern about those that they hurt or the underclass that it creates and sustains.

All this is true.

But you are missing the particulars for the generals. Saying "the rich" without any sort of explanation or qualification actually makes the argument sound more ignorant and absurd instead of completely understandable and reasonable.

Why? Because if I make 100,000 a year, as a single man with no dependents, that classifies me as rich - top 10% of America. I do not suddenly transform from "good" at the 99,999 dollar mark to "evil" at the 100,000 dollar mark.

What would make me "evil" is if I stopped opposing a system built on extravagant benefits to the few at the expense of the many. Or if my income meant more to me that supporting policies and principles that were economically just.

The problem may be one of "people" - the problem is not one of "all" people, and you don't magically become part of the "problem" simply by crossing a dollar income threshold.

If you disagree, then please tell me what is the specific dollar amount where you officially cross from not being part of the problem to being party of the problem?



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Usrename Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #34
47. I'm not sure it has very much to do with people at all.
It is more likely to me that rich and poor are not all that different when viewed as individuals, especially if they are viewed as equals. The problem that I see is that priveledge (usually associated with wealth, but not always) allows a condition where some people are more equal than others.

My own theory is that money has a gravitational pull all its own. When great sums are accumulated they can create a sort of black hole of money which sucks in more money with an irresistible force. I don't think mere mortals have very much control over it at some point. Even the most powerful and wealthy people on the planet must have some concern about hurling themselves under such a juggernaut.
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 05:27 PM
Response to Original message
30. Ultimately, the war against the corporations will come to this. (NT)


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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 05:30 PM
Response to Original message
31. No, its time for a new civil rights movement for economic equality.
Edited on Mon Jan-25-10 05:31 PM by Political Heretic
America has had class war for quite some time.

There's class warfare, all right, Mr. Buffett said, but it's my class, the rich class, that's making war, and we're winning. - Warren Buffet

What we need is to finish the work Dr. King had shifted to focusing on in his last days (and then coincidentally was assasinated) - economic justice and structural revolution of our political economy.


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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 05:50 PM
Response to Original message
35. Put this poster up everywhere. It can be printed out on your printer.
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deaniac21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #35
42. Repeal a supreme court decision? I am confused now.
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #42
46. Repeal and Rescind are pretty much the same:
Edited on Mon Jan-25-10 09:57 PM by alfredo
Main Entry: repeal
Pronunciation: \ri-ˈpēl\
Function: transitive verb
Etymology: Middle English repelen, from Anglo-French repeler, literally, to call back, from re- + apeler to appeal, call
Date: 14th century
1 : to rescind or annul by authoritative act; especially : to revoke or abrogate by legislative enactment
2 : abandon, renounce
3 obsolete : to summon to return : recall
repeal noun

Can you think of a better word? Revoke?
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 05:59 PM
Response to Original message
36. Probably, but the Great Depression 2 isn't bad enough yet to get people motivated. nt
Edited on Mon Jan-25-10 05:59 PM by earth mom
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ParkieDem Donating Member (417 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. Exactly.
Despite the gross income inequality we have nowadays, people will have to get very, very uncomfortable in order to "revolt."

People definitely have less of a sense of security these days, but most live in a larger, more comfortable home than they did 30 years ago, and have no question about where their next meal is coming from. In the Great Depression, you had people being evicted on a massive scale (much more than today's foreclosure crisis), and many more people begging for food. Now, affordable housing and food security haven't been completely solved, but the scale of these problems is much, much more limited than it was in the 1930s. And even then, there was only isolated "revolutionary" talk; the true revolt of the people came via peaceful means, i.e. FDR's election.
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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #36
41. That's becaus so-called "great depression 2" hasn't been anything like a great depression.
The great depression had many other factors that contributed to its severity apart from just a 25% unemployment rate, and even then we're 15% shy of "depression" era unemployment.


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uponit7771 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #41
43. RIGHT!!! We're only at 17% on the U6 rate not 25%, busted savings accounts and no home equity
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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #43
44. Comparing a u3 25% to a u6 17% really doesn't make much of an argument.
No one is saying it isn't bad.

But I'm not seeing bread lines stretched down seven city blocks, or scores of tent cities outside nearly every city.

I'm unemployed, and technically homeless (I say technically, because I am couch crashing, meaning I have a roof over my head - a blessing compared to millions of homeless) - so its not like I'm exactly insensitive to how bad things are.

But things are going to have to get much much worse, before we have action in the streets across every state in the nation.
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Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 06:51 PM
Response to Original message
39. Shhh. They'll hear you.
We're down here, in this trench.
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surrealAmerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 09:15 PM
Response to Original message
45. Too late.
They already won.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 10:47 PM
Response to Original message
48. The Elites already started one 30 years ago. See the Powell Memo.
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