Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

I cried on the phone with Senator Reid's office today....

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
debbierlus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 01:35 PM
Original message
I cried on the phone with Senator Reid's office today....

PDA has a action alert today (in case you missed it and want to participate), you can go here:

http://pdamerica.capwiz.com/pdamerica/callalert/index.t...

I called both the Speaker of the House Pelosi, and the Senate Majority Leader, Harry Reid.

And, after eight months of following this issue on a daily basis, of reading and writing about it and calling and calling and calling...and blogging and blogging and blogging...I just broke down. The office aide whom I spoke with told me that he was aware of the PDA action favoring the Erisa amendment and no mandates to buy corporate insurance, so I said that I supported them, but I told him I wanted to tell him something more. Here is what I said:

I told him that I have been blogging on progressive websites and following politics daily for the past eight years. And, in all the time I have followed politics, I have never seen the sense of betrayal and outrage against our democratic leaders and party as I have with the health insurance reform issue. We are all stunned. It is clear that the Senator and the President and politicians falling in line behind the corporate health industry agenda has made the calculation that they can buy their way back into power with their corporate donations. I told him that they couldn't be more wrong....that people feel as if this Congress and this President are spitting in our faces. And, now that the disbelief is settling the outrage is beginning and that we are talking third party and running primary candidates against the incumbents who have turned on us. I told him that this health care reform legislation is going to break the democratic party in two. People feel as though they are being enslaved to a corporate system that has already broken them.

And, I asked him why are they doing this us?

And, then I was lost because it all came to the surface. The stories I have read and the stories I have been told and the stories of my family and friends. I asked him why they are doing this? Why won't they represent us? The majority of the country wanted Medicare for All and the majority of the country wanted a real public option and they just refused to hear us.
I asked how could they betray people to death and suffering who can't afford their medication, how could they not allow the drug reimportation bill from Canada to pass? Again and again and again, at every turn, they have stood against us. And, I didn't realize until the end that I was crying. I was pleading....Because people will continue to die under this legislation and people will continue to go bankrupt under this legislation and all the people I love who have suffered under this dehumanizing for profit health care industry for the profit of a few...everything I have been trying to speak out for and against came to the surface.

The staffer told me that he would forward my comments and my blog to the Senator' staff. In the slim chance that someone actually will read it, I invite you to post your own responses to the Senators office below. Share your story. Better yet, call yourself and tell them what this corporate enslavement is doing to you and your own family.

I got through on the very first ring with the PDA call. I know people are discouraged and they haven't listened to us. But, I still believe if they really hear from us. REALLY hear from us with the weight of our frustration and sadness and lost hope, it may give them pause. It is apparent from this legislation that governing for the people is second to their own power, perhaps if we let them know that their betrayal is infusing us with retaliation in the voting booth, in their campaign donations, in their campaign volunteering, it might make them reconsider imposing this enslavement onto the people.

Call and do the PDA action alert. And, let them hear the reality of the people.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
debbierlus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
1. A cowardly unrecommend

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Don't take it personal. There are people who unrec everything.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
debbierlus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. Oh, I don't. I just think some unrecommending is a cowardly act

And, it should be thus stated.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FBaggins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #8
22. I normally would have considered unrec-ing something like this
Edited on Thu Jan-07-10 01:57 PM by FBaggins
I'm not a fan of "let me tell you how I proved my liberal bona-fides today" posts (though, no, I don't really un-rec them... that just got you to read this).

In this case, however, I've got to say that you've done a good job at expressing the pain-to-outrage that many feel over how this has gone. To give them overwhelming majorities in Congress and (presumably) a progressive President... and then to end up with almost-worse-than-nothing in the end?

I'm usually a straight-ticket kind of guy... and I always vote... but I can REALLY see this being a hard year for many people to pull a lever for any of these guys. I certainly won't be giving them any money.

K&R
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #22
33. Oh, yes, we absolutely shouldn't share with others our actions and the results.
:wtf:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FBaggins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #33
39. Sure we should.
Just not by starting a new thread titled "I really smacked down a stupid funddie today". That's just a pitch asking others to help boodt your low self-esteem.

Nothing wrong with a thread asking "What steps have you taken to influence legislation x" and then saying what you have done.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #39
41. You miss the point.
The OP was clearly talking about emotions, and how things are getting to her.

THAT is what you criticized.

That weakens people, and we can't afford to be weakened now.

Listening and caring is the greatest gift of all.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FBaggins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. I'm pretty sure it was my point... so it's unlikely I missed it.
The OP was clearly talking about emotions, and how things are getting to her


Which is why I complimented her and rec'd the thread.

THAT is what you criticized.

Nope. I criticized what posts with that kind of title usually are. I complimented what her post turned out to be.

"listening and caring" may be a great gift... but reading comprehension has much to recommend it as well. :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #42
44. "I'm not a fan of "let me tell you how I proved my liberal bona-fides today" posts "
You started your post with those words, so maybe you forgot them by the time you were through.

Assuming the motivation of others and then following that with judgment serves us not at all well in forming strong support systems.

Now, would you like to apologize for your cruel comment about my "reading comprehension"? Slamming others does not a strong movement make.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FBaggins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #44
48. Perhaps we need to grow a thicker skin? hmm?
My "cruel comment"? You seem to assume the worst in whatever you read... does that judgment serve us at all well? :-)

As I said.. the title of the OP reminded me of the type of posts I think are misguided. And pointing that out to someone IS "forming a strong support system" - or did you think that "support" means "tell them that whatever they do is just fine" ??? (note that this is why I corrected you...and presumably why you corrected me - even if mistakenly).

The post ended up not being like that and I told her so. Just like saying "hey... I didn't expect to like this post but I thought you did a great job!" I seriously doubt that the OP could take that as un-supportive.

So no... I don't feel a need to apologize other than being sorry that your take offense so easily... slam others for what they didn't say... and then claim that you're trying to encourage posters to be more supportive.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #48
77. Yes, lets all get hard and tough and not letting anything affect us.
Oh wait... thats just like the reich wing, which we purport to dislike.

Yes, we, too, can be just like them.

THEN we can blame others who call us on our harshness for "taking offense too easily." Yeah, that's such a fine way to turn liberalism into more of the same conservativism. Being insensitive is doing wonders for this country, isn't it?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FBaggins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #77
80. Not "all"... just those with an unhealthily thin skin
Edited on Thu Jan-07-10 05:55 PM by FBaggins
You took offense where none was offered.

I could have said "grow up"... but while accurate, that would have been more offensive. Much like implying that someone else is uncaring, right wing, dishonest and cruel when nothing of the sort was offered.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #80
160. And YOU get to be the JUDGE. How convenient.
You are so used to the RW attacks, that you consider it normal.

So, here it is for you... YOU need to grow a heart.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FBaggins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #160
164. Says the guy who hopped on to correct others?
One of us tried to answer the OP's concern over a seemingly inexplicable unrec... the other decided to be a busybody and criticize others. One of us jumped to incorrect assumptions about what was said and then stuck to it even after being corrected.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #80
162. When dealing with a poster who takes censorship as their own personal RIGHT,
taking oppostion to that stance is commendable.

Of course, those who prefer to censor will then attack those who oppose them, and pose all kinds of rational for those attacks.

PERSONAL attacks ARE against the rules.

Not that that would have any impact on you.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FBaggins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #162
165. Imaginary personal attacks aren't against the rules.
and taking offense is not the same thing as the post being offensive.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #80
163. Your "offense" is/was censorship of others.
Taking opposition to said censorship is commendable, and perfectly within the rules.

Of course, those who prefer to censor will then attack those who oppose them, and pose all kinds of rational for those attacks.

PERSONAL attacks ARE against the rules.

Not that that would have any impact on you.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FBaggins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #163
166. There was no censorship.
Edited on Fri Jan-08-10 08:59 PM by FBaggins
Once again.. I APPLAUDED her post. I kicked and rec'd it.

How can you honestly pretend that's censorship?

Once again... your attacks were more substantial than the ones that you imagined were offered to you. Before I said anything you took offense to you accused me of not listening, not caring, and of "weakening" the OP.

To wait a day and then string a series of offended replies together indicates that you really ARE carrying on an imaginary debate. Please leave me out of it. My reply to the OP was never what you made it out to be.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-10-10 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #166
168. For the last time..... listen or not, censor or not...it's YOUR deal...
YOU are the one who so proudly says you usually unrec posts YOU think are people tooting their own horn about, as you so snarkily put it, their "progressive bonafides".

That is YOU censoring posts you think people shouldn't be writing.

That is YOU judging who should be able to talk about what they do and who shouldn't.

That in *this* case YOU decided it was "legitimate" matters not.

The fact that YOU often think you should censor peoples' reports of actions they take IS the issue.

From your past comments, I doubt that you will be willing to listen to this distinction, or to take a look at your assumptions about what others post that doesn't even have to do with you.

So be it. It's like the RWers that we criticise so often... THEY also think they have the right to decide what others should say and post.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FBaggins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-10-10 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #168
169. So you don't actually read what you reply to , eh?
Edited on Sun Jan-10-10 09:22 PM by FBaggins
I specifically said that I DON'T unrec posts. ("though, no, I don't really un-rec them... that just got you to read this"). In fact, I've only unrec'd three or four threads and they were for faulty information.

I put that in the title line so that she would read it. Unlike you it seems.

Give that simple fact undergirds your entire post and was wrong... you may feel free to retract your BS at any time.

Don't worry... I won't hold my breath.

THEY also think they have the right to decide what others should say and post

Wow... a new record. You haven't read what I posted OR what you posted. You seem quite willing to tell people what they said and that they shouldn't say it. Why even post on DU? You could get along just fine with a foggy mirror since you seem to hold both sides of the conversation on your own.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-11-10 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #169
170. So, you just lie to get attention, eh?
What a gem you are.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FBaggins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-12-10 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #170
171. Nope. But I'm happy to point out yours
Edited on Tue Jan-12-10 02:33 PM by FBaggins
Try reading posts before you knee-jerk reply to them.

Or at the very least... try to retain the "knee".
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 05:10 AM
Response to Reply #44
134. Once again. The PUBLIC OPTION
is not some unreasonable 'liberal' dream. If it is, around 60% of the U.S. is liberal.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #134
161. That has nothing to do with what I am replying to.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TicketyBoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #39
62. Really?
"I really smacked down a stupid funddie today"


You would really class Harry Reid as a "stupid funddie"? I wouldn't.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FBaggins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #62
68. No.. of course not.
It was an example. The distinction I'm trying to make is between "me me me" posts and those that are more appropriate. Posts that attempt to make "me" look like a noble progressive crusader (hmmm... need to work on that metaphor too).

This really wasn't that... it's just that the title made it seem (to me) like it was. The OP was asking how someone could unrec her post so quickly. I was just telling her that maybe someone just read the title and didn't give her the benefit of the doubt. Obviously those who did... loved it (as did I).

Having said that... no, I'm not particularly impressed with Reid. I'd probably be fine with him as any other Senator, but we need leaders from safe progressive areas. I think that too many of his decisions for the party are influenced by his concern that he's about to be Daschled. That hurts the party's goals.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
debbierlus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #22
46. Is that how people take these posts?


I usually don't post individual calls or actions unless they have significance to something larger or it is a particularly productive meeting or whatever.

I do hope people will call for themselves and all whom they love.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FBaggins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #46
49. Obviously not.
It's how they (by which I mean "I... and I assume others") take posts which often have titles similar to yours.

Your post (again IMO) did not turn out to be like that at all. I just wanted to give you a guess on why someone might un-rec it so quickly... I bet they didn't get past the title.

You might have been better served to call it something like "A Call to Action on HCR" or similar... but enough people gave you the benefit of the doubt and read it (then rec'd it) that the big positive number will keep it from not being read.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ignis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #46
53. Most don't.
Illegitimi non carborundum. :hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #46
102. I e-mailed, called, visited the meetings held by my representative.
All our efforts have done absolutely no good at all. Instead we get all this sound and fury about terrorism which neatly covers up the betrayal of us by our own senators and representatives. It would take a really big bomb to blow up as many people as die in a year in America because they did not get decent health care fast enough.

Our Congress is composed of crooks, liars and cowards.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
debbierlus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #102
121. Thanks for trying...

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 05:34 AM
Response to Reply #102
137. Yeah, the Kabuki Theater really worked better when "we" were in the minority
Perhaps that is what "we" want to go back to?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
newspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #46
156. I personally love your post
because it expresses how I feel, as well as others in my family. Senator Reid is my senator and he is in trouble with his constituency in the state. Of course, we do have some real Limbaugh, Beck loving wackos in this state--There are a multitude of bumper stickers I view everyday, about bad socialism, get Reid out, hate liberals, etc.

I've called Reid's office before--I guess that's the one thing we can do now--I just don't know if they're listening.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 12:04 AM
Response to Reply #8
122. its the censorship "group" here...K&R!!!!!!!!! great thread!! eom
Edited on Fri Jan-08-10 12:07 AM by flyarm
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Manifestor_of_Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #2
52. the word is "personally" An adverb shortage is present.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Raster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #2
150. The UNREC feature is designed to guide DU discussions to more of a....
...centrist, mainstream direction.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #1
37. Please, don't use the 1st response of your OP to highlight an UnRec.
They don't deserve the attention.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FBaggins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #37
40. -1
Just kidding. :-)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
A HERETIC I AM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #1
81. I'm curious if now, 4 hours later, you feel at all foolish...
for putting up the first response to your own thread, a complaint about an unrec that, as it turns out, was COMPLETELY inconsequential. Not to mention that first response was TWO MINUTES after you posted your OP.

Your thread has merit. Your sentiments obviously struck a chord with a large number of DU'rs because you now have over 150 rec's on this thread.

I just wish you and others like you would give this board some time before complaining about an unrec barely 120 seconds after hitting submit.

I've been out all day and just logged back on to DU. Your thread was at the top of the GD page with, as I said, over 150 recs. It was, unfortunately, not surprising to see a complaint about an unrec as the first post. This is all too common. Please, PLEASE get the hell over it. You can see now by the overwhelming popular opinion that your complaint in post #1 was pointless.

For you and the others on this board that do the same thing, kindly give the rest of your fellow DU'rs some time and a break. Don't jump the gun and assume that just because one single individual, (or two or ten) didn't think this thread deserved placement on the greatest page and expressed that opinion in short order after you put up the thread, means that your thread had no merit at all.

IN short, STOP BITCHING ABOUT THE UNREC FEATURE!

USING THAT FEATURE IS NOT COWARDLY.

It is a means for expressing an opinion. And the opinion is simply "I don't feel this thread warrants placement on the greatest threads page". It isn't an insult to your sincerity or your opinion.

Stop taking it so god damned personally.

Kicked, but neither recc'd or unrecc'd.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lilith Velkor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 08:00 PM
Original message
What do you expect from someone who screams at moviegoers?
Un-fucking-rec.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Autonomy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 10:26 PM
Response to Reply #81
105. It was +240 when I first saw it
so the first post being the OP complaining about an unrec seems especially silly. This thread is going to be forwarded, and the first 30 posts are going to be about the unrec feature. Brilliant.

People, just stop complaining about unrecs.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #81
113. I respectfully disagree. Unrec'ing without commenting is cowardly. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
A HERETIC I AM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #113
119. Oh come on, man
It is no more cowardly than recommending without commenting.

If you think about it, the unrec is the comment.
The comment is simply "in my opinion, this thread is not one of the greatest". That's all it says. Some are just determined to read more into it.

Insinuating certain of your fellow DU'rs are cowards merely because they use an administrator installed and approved feature is absurd.
Are people who hide threads without commenting cowards?
Are people who alert on threads without commenting cowards?
What about the ignore feature? Is someone that has you on ignore but has never stated why a coward?

It is insulting to suggest the mere use of a feature makes someone a coward.

And for what it's worth, I and others have tried it both ways. It doesn't matter. The people that are the most vocal opponents of the feature are just not satisfied even if you explain why you unrecc'd.

Again, I have neither recc'd or unrecc'd this thread. The only reason I clicked on it in the first place was because of the overtly dramatic wording of the title line
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #119
128. You have some good points. And my use of coward was too strong.
To me, a thread making the 'greatest page" or not isnt important. A good message will get out. But I disagree that unre'ing w/o comment is the same as rec'ing w/o comment. If the OP hits it on the money, one doesnt need to comment a rec is sufficient. However, if you think the OP is wrong, speak up. IMO there are disrupters in DU that have no intention of supporting meaningful dialog. They use the unrec feature just to cause trouble.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mojorabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 01:49 AM
Response to Reply #81
131. I think it is cowardly
I liked it much better the way it used to be. If you really liked a post you recc'd it. If not you ignored it and moved on.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
A HERETIC I AM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 02:47 AM
Response to Reply #131
132. The problem with the way it used to be, and this has been stated over and over...
Edited on Fri Jan-08-10 03:01 AM by A HERETIC I AM
is that it simply took 5 people to recommend a thread in order for it to make it to the greatest page. If a thread got 500 views and 495 of them thought it was crap, their opinion was not just ignored, it wasn't even allowed to be counted. You could vote, but there were only two votes.

"Yey" and "Abstain", the second not really being a vote at all.

Now it is more democratic. There is a Yey vote and a Nay vote. One can still abstain, just as I have done with this thread.

I liked it much better the way it used to be. If you really liked a post you recc'd it. If not you ignored it and moved on.
So you are of the opinion that no one should be allowed to vote "no" in this regard? Only a yes vote is acceptable?

Of course, this has been batted around like a whiffle ball into a strong wind. If you don't like the feature, nothing I say is going to convince you otherwise.

I think it is cowardly

I assure you, I am no coward, but I don't feel I need to explain why I don't think a particular thread does not meet my own criteria for being a great thread. It's quite frankly nobody's business why I might vote either way, just as it is none of my business why you might do the same. You are entitled to your opinion. You apparently don't think others are entitled to theirs unless it is "yes".

I take issue with people claiming that I and the thousands of other DU'rs that use the feature are somehow cowardly simply because you and the others who suggest such a thing can not grasp the concept that being able to vote "yes" AND "no" is actually a good thing.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 05:41 AM
Response to Reply #131
138. And that is exactly what I do to this day
I don't care for the "feature". I know they were trying to fix the tendency for people to recommend just because they agreed, without any consideration of the OP's intrinsic value but now people rec and unrec based on whether they agree or not, rather than the worthiness of it being on the Greatest Page. The fix didn't work.

People have forgotten (if they ever knew) what purpose the Greatest Page served, in the days before Michael Jackson (fill in your celebrity du jour) died.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
niyad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 01:41 PM
Response to Original message
3. off to greatest with you. please let us know if you actually get any sort of real, understanding
response to what you said so powerfully. but, I wouldn't hold my breath.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 01:41 PM
Response to Original message
4. K&R
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 01:42 PM
Response to Original message
5. Thank you, thank you, thank you!

:yourock:


:kick:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
niyad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
6. KO had it right the other day in calling boortz a terrorist, and pointing out that yet another 122
of our people had died since the day before.

every day that REAL health CARE reform is held up, 122 of our people die. so it looks like the real murderers and terrorists are our damned employees, the ones sitting in congress, voting on our lives. I hope they receive everything they deserve.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
debbierlus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. Call and tell them that - they need to hear it

I love Keith. Exactly the way this issue needs to be framed.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
niyad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. believe me, I do.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hell Hath No Fury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
7. Thank you for doing that.
All we have is our votes, our voices, and our wallets to influence politicians. If (when) this shit passes, I am heading to my Registrar of Voters and changing my affiliation to Independent. And I will be sending a copy to my reps, DNC head Tim Keane, and Obama with a note on exactly why, after 31 years, I am no longer a Democrat. :(

We can only do what we can do. And thanks again for doing what you can do.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DisgustedInMN Donating Member (956 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
9. I call, I write..
.. I am ignored.

What's left? I have almost nothing left to lose. And I'm far from alone.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
debbierlus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. I know. Call again. We can fight another day for our rights against them, if we must
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ClassWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. What's left? Never Give Up.
NGU.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DisgustedInMN Donating Member (956 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. With all..
... due respect, slogans and team spirit won't pay my mortgage and job prospects are non-existent. I gave all I had in the '08 campaigns and see now what good it's done. I'm tired, VERY tired..

... and VERY disillusioned.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. Very well said. Slogans are so easy to say. And also cold.
We very tired people need to SUPPORT AND CARE for each other now.

Pushing has no place in this grieving process.

:pals:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #21
30. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #21
36. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
ClassWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #21
43. "We now have the techniques and the resources to get rid of poverty..."
"The real question is whether we have the will."

Easy to say? Cold? Pushing has no place in this grieving process?

NGU.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #17
24. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
DisgustedInMN Donating Member (956 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #24
29. "Carry on" doing exactly what?
Putting more foxes in charge of the henhouse?

I bought into the whole "change you can believe in" gimmick.

Seems the only "change" happening, is Barry changing his mind on who's important.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ClassWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #29
47. Barry?
NGU.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 05:49 AM
Response to Reply #29
140. It's pretty hard not to feel silly for having been taken in by a slogan
He led us to forget that he was, in the end, just another politician.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MuseRider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #140
157. This was and is a very dangerous thing.
People get caught up in the excitement and the hope and rightfully so after the last 8 years. Once a politician starts behaving like a rock star and people start treating them that way we are in trouble because it is hard to take criticism after expending all that time, money and hope on one person who we thought was going to save us. We need to think with clear minds and look at the past of the person and not believe they have changed unless there has been some time to prove it and we need to be very aware and leery of those who change their minds back and forth just to work around a current problem for them without the moral courage to hold tight for what is right for us. We need to be very wary of this whether it be Obama, Kucinich, Dean, Clark just to name a few recent heros/saviours around here.

To me Obama is doing what he has all along. It was back and forth until he found what works best for him and his political future. It is not us, really never was, but we made good subjects for good speeches and got him the momentum he needed. I saw this one coming but it does not mean I will see the next one. We are all susceptible to this kind of thing. We need to be able to hear and digest the discussion even if it galls us and take it all into consideration. Rock stars make horrible heros and worse leaders.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #24
34. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 05:46 AM
Response to Reply #17
139. The thing is, they want us to give up and shut up
I won't give them the satisfaction. Neither will I give one more dime, until and unless they start listen. No listen, no money. Get it from the goddamned corporations you serve, you spineless bastards.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 12:23 AM
Response to Reply #12
126. NGU
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #9
82. There were a couple of guys on Moyers who were calling for a revolution
they said that that's what it would take. I just don't see such a thing happening, and I think that our non-representatives don't imagine that it will happen either.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #82
91. There is a way to revolt if this bill passes. Don't buy
their 'product'. They have reduced what is a human right to the status of an inanimate object. I know everyone cannot do that as they need medical care. But if enough people who are healthy were to simply refuse and were willing to take it to court, the whole purpose of this ever increasing mess, would be undermined, which is, to maximize the profits of the Private Insurance Industry.

Since this is an issue where people's lives are at stake, we are at a seminal moment once again as this country has been many times before, and it's clear that using the process as we understood it, letting our Reps know what we want, has been ignored.

When this happened before, from the grievances with the British Empire to the Civil Rights movement, when the Government turned a deaf ear and blocked all normal channels of communication, people stood up and made sacrifices making life better for those who came after them.

In this case, we don't have to do that much. Just organize enough people to reject this system of delivering health care by refusing to pay for it, enough so that there is strength in the numbers, and it affects their bottom line, until we get their attention. I think it will happen anyway, as many Americans are not only opposed to this authoritarian legislation, but simply cannot afford it.

In Mass. eg which has a similar system in place, there are still hundreds of thousand of people without coverage. Since that is their situation, it's too bad they didn't turn it into a protest.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
debbierlus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #82
109. It will happen. It is just a matter of how far we have to fall and how bad things have to get

All things are cyclical.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
14. Thank you. You are very brave.
Righteous indignation, moral courage, humanity. That's what you shared with that aide on the phone and with us. It takes guts to open up like that. And I love guts! :hug:

I want to call -- yet again. I'm sooo tired of it all, but I guess I should. Let me try to pull my thoughts together.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
15. Have you ever met in person with any of your own Reps or Senators? If you want to have an impact
You'll have to start there. Otherwise, Reid isn't going to be pressured to respond to you. You're not a constituent of his. But if everyone called or met with their own reps, the pressure on Reid would be much higher.

I have. I've met, personally with each one about Healthcare. I believe they are all sincere in their desire to fix the system. But there is a real problem they have to deal with called other Senators and Reps. If we don't put pressure on ALL of them, then Reid isn't going to be able to help you out.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. Better yet, gather together a group.
Although, I know from experience you will usually get an aide, and have to raise holy hell to speak with the congresscritter in person.

Still, it is important to do.

As they say, if you can get 500 people to talk back to any representative, you will have an impact and be heard.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Yeah, they don't take kindly to a mob coming to their office. Invite them to a forum however
to provide information on the topic, i.e. townhall meeting, and show that you are sincere in listening and you may get a response.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #20
26. I wasn't suggesting a "mob". Organizations have legitimate right to request meeting with a rep.
No, I also know they DON'T come to "forums". I worked with a very respectable health group who tried that, too. Nada. Including the "progressives".

Its so easy for them to forget they work for us.

Actually, this could be a very good primary bargaining chip..... "How often will you meet with us after you are elected?"
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #20
59. We in Minnesota know that this doesn't work with Amy Klobuchar
Last summer we had over 200 people going to Klobuchar's Minneapolis office in a single day, each with a personal letter about our health care concerns.

All we got was a form letter from Klobuchar, displaying her usual talent for saying nothing at great length.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #59
79. I'm unfortunately not familiar with Klobuchar . . . but wondering how she got elected?
Did she bail on campaign promises -- ?

Or do you think you've had stolen elections?

Is your state moving to the right?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #79
83. The Republican (Mark Kennedy) Klobuchar ran against was a right wing type
and she did a fine job of keeping her DLC/Blue Dog tendencies quiet. She ran in 2008 and had the advantage of riding the big anti-Bush wave that existed in most the state - which kept some people from looking to closely, they just voted for whoever had the "D" after their name. (Her opponent, Mark Kennedy, had been the Congressman from the 1st Congressional District, which elected a DFLer to replace him that year.)

Amy remains popular by never publically taking a firm position - except for her "courageous" stance against texting while driving.

The sad thing is, there was a real progressive challenging her for the endorsement, but she had the backing of the DSCC as well as the national and state party machines (probably the DLC as well, but if they were involved they kept quiet). They just ignored the guy running against her and, good as he was, he couldn't fight that. The DFL was actually violating its own rules by doing that as the party is suppose to remain neutral until the endorsement has been made.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #83
97. Thank you for the educational update ...
Used to be fairly familiar with everyone in Congress via C-span, but got disconnected

for a while and trying to catch up.

Sad to see the Dem Party so often supporting conservatives/blue dogs vs progressives.

As they say, we get the leaders TPB want us to have!



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
onpatrol98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #83
147. A lot of that...
The elites of both parties will be putting a lot of money behind incumbents and trying to stave off the mass unwashed (us). I heard people say all kinds of horrible things about the tea party people. I couldn't bring myself to do it. Because, down deep in my heart. I know that's how Washington feels about us, too.

If you feel strongly enough about an issue to take a van load to visit your congressman, to them, you're a mob. To you, you're an angry constituent with other angry voters wanting a real audience with your representative. You're parents, workers, husbands, wives, etc. who are concerned about the direction of your country.

To them, we're just a bunch of people they fleece from time to time on the hope that we'll keep voting D on impulse like Pavlov's dog, knowing republicans aren't a viable option. That's the part that gets me. They know we don't have much of choice. What do our democratic leaders "really" have to do. They know we can't vote for a republican. They know there's no hope there. Perhaps they think they have our backs against a wall.

But, I think a new day is coming. I think other parties are starting to get stronger. These incumbents are starting to get a surprise.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
debbierlus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #15
23. Yes. I have. And he is the majority leader of the Senate, so he damn well is my representative

Yes, I have done that - what has that to do with my calling today? It seems every time I post about a call or letter, someone comes along and gives a lecture of why that isn't effective or it is the wrong way or it isn't enough. Yes, I have engaged my reps directly in person, however, I don't have the ability to go to Nevada or Washington, so I called. As we ALL should...Don't give arguments against actions we can all take, it is this type of thing that discourages people from calling at all. Every call is a tiny drop of water. Shut the phone lines down and they willl take notice.

The Speaker of the House and Senate Majority Leader are positions that transcends district representation.

They have huge control over legislation that impacts all the people.

And, frankly, this issue goes far beyond the interests of any one state.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #23
55. I'm not arguing against what you're doing. But most effective activism starts with your own rep.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 01:53 PM
Response to Original message
16. Recommended. Glad you got through.
Thanks for posting the PDA alert.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
debbierlus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #16
25. On the first ring...that is very disturbing....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #25
31. Yes. It means little or no pressure at this critical time.
I wonder how much of it is people giving up?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
debbierlus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #31
35. We have a very disengaged population as a whole...Recent Senate primary in MA shows that...

Record low turnout for the seat of Ted Kennedy...

Tumbleweeds in the polling station...

Tumbleweeds.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #35
74. I think when the public is very discouraged they do not come out to vote . . .
that's what we've seen for a very long time ---

and it benefits the GOP --

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 05:17 AM
Response to Reply #74
135. Well
Because the people we elect are not who we thought they were. Stealth candidates. Stealth candidates that only exist to please their corporate owners.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-09-10 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #135
167. Agree -- the public understands the corruption . . . that keeps them home ---


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tango-tee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #35
153. I see this in Germany as well.
Generally, there is a low voter turnout. It's either raining and people are staying at home, or the weather's great and they're going on a picnic instead of to the polling station. How can we make people understand that voting is more than a right, but the very first and basic duty if you want to make yourself heard?

Could it be that as long as a majority of people still have that which is important - a job with a living wage, the ability to purchase goods beyond the bare necessities, a health care system and social services safety net Americans could only dream about - feel too secure? After the last elections in Germany I wonder about my fellow citizens. The economic crisis has hit us as well, so how could anyone who is not independently wealthy and couldn't care less about fellow citizens vote FDP (Free Democrats = give us a chance, we'll privatize everything)?

Do people need to be smacked upside the head with a 2x4 before they become interested, let alone engaged, in the political process?

I checked how the votes in each polling station in my town were distributed. In my area, the Left Party received 25% of the votes. I live right smack in a downtown neighborhood with many beautiful brownstone buildings from the end of the 19th century, many crumbling but some beautifully restored along tree-lined streets, with a mix of poor folks, the working class and increasingly yuppies, plus a large Muslim population from various countries. Checking the results of other polling stations, surprise surprise (not): The more financially upscale the neighborhood, the more right-leaning the votes.

I come from a family which is now third generation Social Democrats and Labor Union. In good conscience, I can no longer vote Social Democrats because I feel they do not represent the working class. I have switched to voting Left Party. So have my husband, SIL, her husband and most of my friends. There has to be an alternative to sucking up to the corporatists.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 01:55 PM
Response to Original message
19. Thank you for calling and posting this
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say, as one of his constituents, I believe Harry Reid truly tried to get some sort of public option into the Senate bill and was shut down by the White House on it. i think this because I remember he was pissed off when Rahm came in and told him to cut the deal with Lieberman. Guess it doesn't really matter who was behind cutting our throats. They are cut all the same.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
debbierlus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #19
32. When I was on the phone with Pelosi's office...

I asked her if the speaker was going to fight for us.

She said she is fighting and she is working her ass off to negotiate a deal.

I told her this....Negotiating a deal isn't fighting. Going on t.v. and challenging this legislation and demanding real reform for the people is fighting. Standing up and not passing a bill to make the President look like he accomplished something doesn't meet that criteria.

She didn't seem to hear me. Just defended Pelosi.

I forgot to mention the abortion amendments. Now I have to call back!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JHB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #32
149. For some reason it never occurs to them to do both...
...fight AND negotiate at the same time.

In fact, in many cases, a bit of pushing can make the negotiations easier.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
27. K&R
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
old mark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
28. Rec, and thanks, OP. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 02:30 PM
Response to Original message
38. Thanks for the effort. But unless you accompany your call with $10,000
or so, it will have little effect.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
debbierlus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #38
45. I understand the sentiment - call anyway

People give up before even taking the smallest of actions.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #38
76. Agree . . . and it's this corporate/fascism we have to overturn . . . we need a Plan B . . .
cause voting for the "lesser of evils" for four decades hasn't worked except

to enrich corporations further and the make the power elite more powerful!

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 05:54 AM
Response to Reply #38
141. Call anyway
Don't give them the satisfaction of shutting you up. They want you to sit down and be quiet.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
onpatrol98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #38
148. Money In Escrow
Perhaps that's the answer...get with a group, raise a boatload of money, put it in Escrow UNTIL they do what they said they were going to do.

Unfortunately, we could never outraise insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies, etc. We can't fly these representatives to other places on jets, put them up in fancy hotels, and buy them steak dinners in an effort to buy their vote on an issue.

And, we shouldn't have to...crooks all around us.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #148
151. That's my point. Taking care of sick, poor, interested constituents won't
get Harry re-elected. Taking care of 6-figure donors might.

The OP's initiative is well-reasoned, admiral, very patriotic, and completely useless. Just look at the gulf between what Americans want wrt health care and what's going to be enacted.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
StarfarerBill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 03:20 PM
Response to Original message
50. K&R
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 03:20 PM
Response to Original message
51. Called again - thanks for posting. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
diane in sf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 03:44 PM
Response to Original message
54. I've known at least three people who had to keep working while they were battling
Edited on Thu Jan-07-10 03:46 PM by diane in sf
potentially fatal cancers to keep their insurance because they were way too young for medicare--cobra is not affordable with a radically reduced income.

I consider this bill to be a radical betrayal of democratic voters. I think it is an attempt by the DLC/Rahm people to abort the people's movement to power by disempowering the web and people's individual donations to politicians. I personally would like to see Democratic politicians sign a pledge to raise all their campaign funds from individuals, non astroturf consumer lobbying groups, and unions and to totally forgo corporate donations.

I will no longer donate to DNC, DCC, DLC, etc. only to progressive politicians.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #54
78. Obviously, they were not going to leave the Democratic Party intact to
Edited on Thu Jan-07-10 05:49 PM by defendandprotect
actively investigate right wing political violence after the coup on JFK --

That would have been impossible --

It was afterall a coup on our "people's" government and no one was to be held

responsible.

Yes -- destruction of the Democratic Party is the goal -- and until the Democratic

Party is as destructive to citizens as the GOP, any Democratic who is honestly

trying to work for the people -- someone like Dorgan, for instance -- will be punished.

What they did the other day with his new push for "negotiation" on drug prices was just so

blatantly criminal, it was breathtaking. And, I think it certainly played a role in Dorgan

deciding to leave.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
debbierlus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #54
90. I am so sorry for your friends...for all of us who can be broken by this system of extortion


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 03:50 PM
Response to Original message
56. First thing you have to understand is...
reid isn't a progressive.

Cheers to you for you not giving up!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
thotzRthingz Donating Member (585 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 03:59 PM
Response to Original message
57. re: Call and do the PDA action alert-- DONE & thanks! (also posted to email & webpage... k&r n/t)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
highplainsdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 04:01 PM
Response to Original message
58. K&R
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
freddie mertz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 04:13 PM
Response to Original message
60. I called the Speaker's office just now and had a lovely conversation...
With a staffer, who seemed open enough to the issue.

I framed my discussion in positive terms, stressing my appreciation for the Speaker's efforts for the public option et al, and pledging my support for anything they could do to improve the bill.

My advice is to call and ne as polite and positive as you can, and try to let them know they DO have support out here for a better bill.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FBaggins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #60
65. I think that's the proper (though perhaps less effective) thing to do.
Most certainly if you're calling a statesman.

But most of these folks are politicians. And politicians respond very well to fear.

Making it very clear that, as far as I'm concerned, this will cost you your seat... can be very effective.

I know they're scared that the public is turning against a more progressive plan. I know they worry that turnout on the right will be elevated if they pass a good bill. But we should make it clear that turnout is looking to run high for the right whether we pass a good bill or a bad one and turnout from the base on our side will very much depend on whether we feel we've been betrayed

Say what you will about the republican party trying to get away from the religious far right... but they didn't show up in the last couple elections and it cost republicans dearly. It absolutely can happen again in reverse.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
freddie mertz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #65
70. I was firm but supportive. I predicated on support for the House version
(minus Stupak).

It was a carrot approach...a "please do the right thing like you have been trying to do" sort of line.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 04:15 PM
Response to Original message
61. Thank you. Well done.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 04:21 PM
Response to Original message
63. So, Nader was right
"It is clear that the Senator and the President and politicians falling in line behind the corporate health industry agenda has made the calculation that they can buy their way back into power with their corporate donations. I told him that they couldn't be more wrong....that people feel as if this Congress and this President are spitting in our faces. And, now that the disbelief is settling the outrage is beginning and that we are talking third party and running primary candidates against the incumbents who have turned on us."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LooseWilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #63
84. Fancy that... he was indeed.
Not likely to hear many admit it though.

:+
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #84
89. Maybe the Nader Hating
was organized from the right so Dems would ignore the threat of corporate government for an extra 8 years! :think:

:wow:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LooseWilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #89
95. "organized from the right"? Define the "right".
As I see it, the "right" that you are positing here is the "center-right" portion of the Democratic Party which is generally referred to here as the DLC-wing. Demonize the "left" (those who are even sympathetic to the sometimes radical/anti-businees/anti-corporate/anti-establishment perspective that Nader espouses... which can sometimes even veer into the territory of caricature/gibberish... but are definitely not concerned with issues like worrying about "the poor health insurance corporations that won't be able to profitably compete with a strong public health care option")... demonize the left, the Naderites, and blame them for the loss... for Bush... so that the DLC-esque strategy that Gore followed won't be blamed (not as "sexy" of a story anyway), and so that any and all calls for more rigorous actions to curb/regulate corporations (Nader was a consumer protections advocate after all) can be associated with the "Nader left" and connotations of evil and suffering will ensue... and in the psychosomatic confusion, the DLCers will have another chance to give their corporate friendly policies a try. And, as a bonus, if there is failure for any reason... then the "manufactured history" of the "Nader left" can be referred to, the faux historical nature of the allusions lending a false sense of weightiness (truthiness if you will) to the assertion that, once again, the failures are all the result of those "nay sayers", "negativists", "leftbaggers", "Naderites", etc. ... who are "completely unreasonable"... and- "not fact based".

Or, by "right", did you mean to imply that Rush Limbaugh and his ilk have organized the DU-reflected perception of Nader?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #63
115. Of course he was right. No one has disputed that he wasnt right.
His detractors only attack him personally and not what he says. Because you see, if you admit to yourself that he was right, you will realize we are so screwed. To recognize that the Democratic Party has sold out to CorpAmerica is too big a pill for many to swallow.

Rationalization is the key to happiness. Many want to rationalize that Nader was wacko so they dont have to deal with the reality that most of Congress support the ruling class and not the working class. It's a class war stupid. Until we all recognize that fact we will flounder.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #115
117. Thank you rhett o rick
for that and because you have answered the question no one will consider, let alone answer, and I tried to quit asking but lately find it unavoidable, about how people just LIHOP when the red flags and warnings are all there all along... they're not stupid, they're not hypocrites, they're not distracted with family life -- they're in complete and utter DENIAL!!!!

All these years we heard "People will care when it affects them......................." and now we is TOTALLY screwn, and they care and they want those who warned them to care that they care and THEY FINALLY WOKE THE FUCK UP!!!

The other shock is how seamlessly people have segued from being in complete denial into complete ACCEPTANCE of the fact of corporate government.

Thanks for a(nother) perspective.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 12:31 AM
Response to Reply #117
127. I am a WW II baby-boomer and believe that we were spoiled and easy pickens.
Our guard was down and many of us died in Vietnam trying to be "patriot". Unlike my parents, we were raised in comfort and were/are afraid to risk that comfort to save our neighbors. We were brought up on materialism and many chose that over family and friends. Now we are paying. The sadist part is we sold out our children's future.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
customerserviceguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 08:45 AM
Response to Reply #63
144. Nader is right
He's been correct on a great number of things, but the only way he's done our country damage is by regarding the Presidency as an entry-level political job. If he had stayed off the ballot, he'd be the last living undisputed hero of the 1960's.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
southernyankeebelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 04:39 PM
Response to Original message
64. I totally agree with you. I have been blogging and called many
representatives and senators, yes even Reid and Pelosi office. I feel so disappointed that none of them are lisening to us and I even wrote the president. I have a blog dog democratic in my district that I will not vote for. I will vote democratic but not him. The sad thing is that neither party is lisening to us. This country has been taken over by corporations and wall street. If we don't get a handle soon I am afraid this country will not be the country any of us reconize. I don't care what party you are with. There are certain things all of us want and honestly I don't see anyone in the beltway really care. I have cried to.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HowHasItComeToThis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 01:40 AM
Response to Reply #64
129. please spellcheck before posting
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wroberts189 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 04:43 PM
Response to Original message
66. "We are all stunned"..
Edited on Thu Jan-07-10 04:50 PM by wroberts189
That's putting it mildly.

I feel like a rescue dog that has just been repeatedly hit with a 2x4 piece of wood to near death by the very people I worked so hard to save.

And to those of us that still live in "Hope", "Change", and "Yes we can" dreamland. I will say a few things... first off get ready for the well documented stages of grief. I will buy you a drink and help you through it as best I can. I will start off with.. "Welcome to the club".

Sooner or later you will come around and be forced to admit that something happened to our beloved savior once he got elected...perhaps before ..I do not know what happened. Today's news tell us our Obama appointed Treasury Secretary is a total crook.. stole from all of us ...and the irony is it was a republican that found the smoking gun emails.

After more than 20 years of watching the pubs lie, cheat, steal, and basically be the most evil force that ever existed in my life of observing/reading etc. ...on a daily basis. I find myself suddenly being forced to agree with some of them out of basic intellectual honesty.

I will have to change my tag line.

Yes Mcain/Palin .. we would all be probably be digging and fighting wild dogs for scraps in a post nuclear apocalypse right now.

But do not give me maggot infested meat and tell me I am lucky I still have a can of Sterno to kill them off before I eat it in my cardboard box in the woods or under a bridge.

I would rather die a faster death. At least then I could say I did not vote for them.

On edit ..KNR





/end angry rant













Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
debbierlus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #66
103. Profound response
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TicketyBoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 04:46 PM
Response to Original message
67. I have called both offices.
Got an answering machine with Pelosi and left a message.

Told a Reid staffer that we need Medicare For All or as close as we can get to it (for certain a public option), and immediate implementation of any plan that passes. Told him we needed it years ago, NOT years from now.

I'm probably not as articulate as many of you, but I made the calls and voiced my opinion.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
quiet.american Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 04:54 PM
Response to Original message
69. I shake my head reading this OP. No other way to put it -- I think you're nuts. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #69
72. Wow. What a coincidence...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 05:15 PM
Response to Original message
71. I am very glad that you took the time to make the all.However
Edited on Thu Jan-07-10 05:16 PM by truedelphi
I no longer call anyone who is not with me.

Barbara Boxer's home page is now about the evils of the Tea Baggers... Not on how she has started to listen only to those aides around her who disempower the progressive moment. Progressive candidates all across the nation have been left high and dry by her supporting the Rahm and Lieberman style of candidate.

The last time I called the WH, the aide on comments' line laughed at me.

So F___ them all. I do often call one of the Progressive Caucus and thank the aide who answers for working for one of the last true reps of the populace.

They are stunned to get thanks.

But you cannot change the minds of most of these people. They think they are so much better than the evil Tea Baggers, even though the Tea Baggers right now have no chance to sell me out, unless people like Obama listen to them. (Which he spent a great deal of the summer doing.) Meanwhile those in power are selling me out and will continue to do so.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 05:35 PM
Response to Original message
73. Kick/for call tomorrow ---- Our nation - president and Congress did once earn our trust . . .
Edited on Thu Jan-07-10 05:40 PM by defendandprotect
but it has long been over -- it's been over for decades -- it's been over

since they killed JFK --

not only was that a coup on the president, it was a coup on our "people's" government --

and it certainly included the Democratic Party. They weren't about to let the party

and those who were representing the public in Congress go on doing so. Reminding Americans

of democratic ideals and those who would have investigated right wing political violence

and stop it!

Sadly, it was all over that day --

We trusted and hoped then that our leaders would investigate and tell us the truth.

They didn't --

And here we are with fascism having crossed America's threshold.

But, at least we are all now waking up. That's a beginning.

Obviously, thee are many descent people still in Congress, but I think we also have to

recognize that the first area to be controlled is leadership. We have the leadership which

those who are destroying America have given us.


PS: Just want to add another comment which I have been trying to wake up DU'ers about . . .

Keep in mind that both the large computers used by MSM and the individual computers began to

come in during the mid-and-late-1960's. That's just about the time that America was passing

The Voting Rights Act.

The LARGE computers used by MSM gave them new powers --

Previously they could only REPORT actual vote totals for candidates.

Yes -- occasionally they would have someone on opining about the outlook for a candidate or

a little discussion about the leanings of the country or state ... but that was it.

The LARGE computers gave MSM the power to PREDICT outcomes for candidates and states.

The LARGE computers gave MSM the power to CALL elections for candidates -- and in

presidential elections to PREDICT electoral college votes -- and to CALL states for

candidates.

To CALL presidential/veep winners.

We saw that power simply reversed in 2000 -- when Fox/Jon Ellis RECALLED Florida from Gore

and later CALLED Florida for Bush.

We have still not come to terms with either of these situations -- LARGE or individual

voting computers. Yet, I would question every election back to Humphrey/Nixon!

It's an issue the Democratic Party should be dealing with -- and again . . . they are not.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
debbierlus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #73
99. Election fraud awareness is a huge and exhausting issue


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 05:43 PM
Response to Original message
75. Thanks for the headsup. I'll be calling. Rec.
And thanks for your call. I just hope I can hold my temper in check long enough to express myself cogently.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LooseWilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 06:33 PM
Response to Original message
85. Called my Rep on Tuesday.
From the sounds of the staffer's response... my opinion is "on file".

:+
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
winyanstaz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 06:40 PM
Response to Original message
86. K & R...thank you so much for this article...
I am sure you have inspired many to take some action.
I wish the best for you and yours..and for all of us.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
azygous Donating Member (110 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 06:49 PM
Response to Original message
87. Thirty percent of my retirement check
is now being confiscated by Anthem Blue Cross of California. That doesn't include all the other payroll deductions, but the health insurance premium is crippling my finances. I'm left with just $700 on which to live for the month.

I'm lucky I have a group plan under the state, being my former employer, since I'd surely be canceled or denied under a private plan since I've had cancer, but I can't afford these premiums any longer.

But health insurance is only half the problem. In my small town, there is a shortage of doctors and everyone here absolutely dreads having to try to see a doctor. The waiting rooms are overflowing, the wait interminable. The paperwork has become de-humanizing for all concerned. Quality of care is definitely suffering. My health may be suffering, too, since I put off going to the doctor except for severe injury or illness.

The status-quo is destroying our economy, ruining our health, and bankrupting all but some really rich people at the very top. It's become a criminal enterprise, and both political parties are abetting it. This feels no different than being under the choke-hold of the mafia.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
debbierlus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #87
92. Choke hold of the mafia? The mafia provides better protection and rates

The insurance companies are WORSE then the mafia.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
totodeinhere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
88. K&R. Thank y ou so much for putting up the good fight. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pleah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 07:56 PM
Response to Original message
93. K&R
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Generator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 07:57 PM
Response to Original message
94. The only way they will hear us is if
we vote them out of power. It took me a long time to come to that bitter end. But I am not voting for any Dem that votes for this. Fuck it. No more. I am done with the voting charade. Hopefully someday the young, as I am not- will get their time in the streets because that's all that's ever going to change this country-a real civil war, until then, I am not playing anymore. THEY DON'T CARE. They are actually kinda evil.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
t0dd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 08:03 PM
Response to Original message
96. Thanks for everything, Debbie.
I know how frustrating politics gets, but you are a hero to me. Thanks for all that you do. One day we'll get true health care reform :hug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 08:10 PM
Response to Original message
98. I'll call....
and after a bit of introduction about Betrayal and Karma, I think I'll just sing the song, 'Revolution.'

They think we can be distracted by 'Terror at Xmas.' I don't think so.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ramapo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 09:24 PM
Response to Original message
100. Been there, done that
I've sent countless emails, faxes, etc to my Senators in NJ, to Reid, Pelosi, the White House, and anybody else who I think actually might give a shit.

I pleaded for an immediate end to the pre-existing condition exclusions and for providing ALL Americans a choice of insurance. After all, even those of us with corporate insurance do not have a choice. We get whatever our employers feel like (or can afford) to provide.

One of my Senators bothers to reply. Sometimes via email, others via mail. Always a canned reply, of course. The rest....not a peep, except now I'm on their damn fund raising lists.

I'm pretty disgusted with them all and disappointed with Obama. Sure he is better than Bush but an awful lot of his campaign promises have evaporated into corporate governance.

This bill isn't all bad. Many people will be helped. But it is much worse than it needs to be and there is a lot in it to hate.

We've been screwed over by a minority of Democrats. I'm sure the feeling is that come election time, we'll be faced with the traditional better of two evils and that we'll hold our noses and vote D.

The shitty reality is that most of these bastards could give a shit about our reality.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 09:44 PM
Response to Original message
101. Megakick and rec.
n/t.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
earcandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 10:02 PM
Response to Original message
104. Thanks for your post. I recommended it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 10:26 PM
Response to Original message
106. as i recall, the base was pretty upset with war votes and telecom immunity...
...among other heinous votes, and keeping impeachment off the table. they pols were roundly derided for those actions. calls were made, letters and e-mails, sent, people demonstrated --it meant nothing to them. anyone expecting the democratic party to be progressive is delusional. i've been saying this for years, but now, with the obama betrayal, it may ring true to more people.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
janet118 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 10:33 PM
Response to Original message
107. This so-called reform will hurt so many people . . .
no wonder you cried.

I live in Massachusetts which has a similar plan to the private "choices" one the Senate proposes. It is NOT AFFORDABLE!!!! for middle-class people who make around $45,000 to $50,000 a year. We are the ones who need help. The poor have Medicaid and CHIPs (which I believe the House bill eliminates CHIPs) and the rich have money. The Senate bill will tax those in the middle class who have good health care plans and will require those who have pre-existing conditions pay up to 3 times what others pay. Since I am employed by a small business, I get bad health insurance with high deductibles and co-pays for regular preventative care. I avoid going for regular tests and doctor's visits because I can't afford it after I pay my premiums. I could easily go bankrupt with any really expensive procedure or test and I am not covered for dental or prescriptions or eyeglasses.

I saw the deal my state legislators get here in Massachusetts. I want that. Why do people who have insurance that I, a taxpayer, have to pay for, mandate me to insurance hell with this patched together piece of crap that will not help anyone except the insurance companies who will get all those juicy subsidies to make up for the baby boomers who are going on Medicare.

Thanks, Debbierlus, you are a strong, intelligent and persistent voice on this issue. I hope that the Democrats pick up the clue phone before they throw away our one chance to actually do something about this mess that is driving our country down. They are also signing their own political death warrant. Once people find out what a bill of goods they have been sold (out), they will cry out for revenge. Do you hear me now?

My niece just visited from England and had to go to a doctor and pick up a prescription here. She was shocked at the cost. She said it was so nice to know that she didn't have to worry about that in London. Would that she wouldn't have to worry in her home country. Would that none of us did.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 10:43 PM
Response to Original message
108. Thank you so much. You did what I couldn't do.
You put it into words. Into action. It seems so simple now that I read your post.

I just can't get the words to come out properly sometimes. It's always difficult to express things with simplicity and clarity. I suppose that is what it took to break McCarthy's back. Have you no sense of decency. It's sad that it should take so much suffering in order to facilitate change. And everyone is busy, on top of it all.

Health care is so underrated in this country. I have problems that I won't see a doctor for because it's just too much of a god damned hassle.

If we look at health care from the perspective of a healthy and productive work force alone, it would make sense to have it as our top priority. Sick people don't make a good society.

You've given me some renewed energy to start speaking out again on this. Thanks.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Digit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 10:56 PM
Response to Original message
110. K&R
Excellent post
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
unkachuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 10:58 PM
Response to Original message
111. K&R....n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 11:01 PM
Response to Original message
112. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
debbierlus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #112
114. You are thinking of someone else - I closed no post this morning or anytime

So, I don't know what you are on about...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #112
116. Link plez. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 11:31 PM
Response to Original message
118. I share your agony. Almost lost a friend and another's mother to lack of health care last year.
It's an absolute fucking OUTRAGE, this betrayal.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
debbierlus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #118
120. It is outrageous and politically STUPID beyond belief

People desperately want and need relief from the extortion of the insurance and pharmaceutical companies. And, what do they craft as legislation? A bill that mandates enslavement to the system that has brought the health care system to its knees!

People are angry about this bill. People I know who aren't political are outraged about this bill. Health care costs are breaking so many people, and almost everyone knows someone personally who has a tragic health insurance related story (if they don't have one themselves).

And, who hasn't had to fight to get a covered service actually paid for?

It is disgusting. It is political suicide, but hey, why the hell would they care? They can all just get a nice big fat job with one of the insurance companies if they lose the next election. So, why not spit right in the face of the American people?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
orbitalman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 12:08 AM
Response to Original message
123. I truly believe DEMOCRACY is LOST. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #123
124. I agree. We live in a sham Democracy. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 12:23 AM
Response to Original message
125. I am with you all the way. Keep fighting plez. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pundaint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 01:48 AM
Response to Original message
130. At some point you stop fighting the skirmish, and turn to winning the war.
Better to turn our attention to identifying democratic fighting Democrats to replace the corporate wuss Democrats who are occupying OUR congress.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
greengestalt Donating Member (126 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 04:30 AM
Response to Original message
133. You've got a point
If we have a government of pure "Corporate Lickspigots" let's make sure they are all Republican.
Nice of Obama to become a sell-out, making the first Black president be a "Third Rate Carter".


Then again, I thought much about Clinton when he first got in. Then he did turn the country around, even though he did things we wished he wouldn't do, like various foreign bombings and such.


It's occurred to me this: The fines for not buying health care: They seem to be in line with the "Middle of the road" plans for national health insurance. He could let this stuff go through, then slap on a "You can just pay the fine and be fully covered with no pre-existing or any other catches..." thing and bully that through, and the insurance companies would be stuck. They committed themselves very heavily, hoping to get a captive audience, so if he pushes through more responsibility at the end, they'll be stuck, and if they try to go bankrupt, they'll lose all their McMansions and yachts...


BUT, if Obama is still doing this corporate uncle tom act come 2011, we should:

1. Mobilize the left for a "Third Party" scheme. Enough additional parties will weaken what/where the corporate powers can put their money into. We'll get people who get in by popularity, on corporate dollars, then are popular enough to win a second election (it'd be easy way things are going) and they could just extort or RICO a corporation the next time around.

2. Sabotage this election to the right. Let the right deal with the mess they made. The only reason they lost was that the religious loonies were fighting too much, crying that they weren't able to stone adulterers or homosexuals and the FBI would spend 10 times as much time and money on them as any foreign terrorist if they blew up an abortion clinic.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 05:32 AM
Response to Original message
136. Many years ago, Ralph Nader said there was no difference between
Democrats and Republicans. I thought it was a really stupid statement. Now, from a corporate standpoint, I think he was right.

And yes, this is their Waterloo. It really didn't have to be like this. If this is the best a Democratic majority in the House, Senate and White House can do, then I think we can do better than them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dystopian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 06:06 AM
Response to Original message
142. KandR. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
democracy1st Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 06:53 AM
Response to Original message
143. K & R this admin has been a complete fraud
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
crikkett Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #143
152. I'm withholding judgement.
By the way we all expected cries of fraud and betrayal at all times when Obama was elected. We did not expect rainbows and ponies. We did not expect something as earthshattering to the GOP & their funders as a public option would be easy.

And what about the betrayal of Conyers w/ his impeachment rallies? Talk about outrage.

I sleep better at night knowing Obama's in charge. IMO he's still the best person for the job.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
customerserviceguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 08:51 AM
Response to Original message
145. I'm sorry, but it's too late
Every congresscritter has a group of hired staffers to simply act as shoulders for those of you who still have hope to cry on. This deal is done, and anybody expecting the bill to get better in conference committee has some major disappointment coming around the bend. The trouble is, we won't know precisely what those compromises and sell-outs are until the President's ink is drying on the bill.

There's only one way I don't see this thing passing. If the Senate language on abortion that Nelson put into that bill becomes the final version, and that's not good enough for the Stupak amendment Democratic group, then this gets voted down in the House, and we start all over again in 2013. If the economy is in recovery, we can focus on HCR from the day after President Obama's inauguration, with a new Congress dedicated to our core values, and a bunch more scared constituents out there supporting us instead of fearing us.

If the economy is still in the toilet during 2012, then the Rethugs will just undo whatever in in this bill, anyway.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tigermoose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 09:53 AM
Response to Original message
146. Get a Grip people
You are all losing it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Aramchek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 11:11 AM
Response to Original message
154. Poor Staffer
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 12:13 PM
Response to Original message
155. Son of a bitches!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
breadandwine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 02:42 PM
Response to Original message
158. Debbie, very moving opening post.
Personally I wasn't that emotionally invested in this issue. I thought it was being handled badly from the start and my feeling was that if the bill was killed they'd have to come back with a better one next year. But now, it looks like it will pass and the most important thing is to reform it with new legislation that fixes it, which I think will be possible down the road.

My greatest disappointment is that President Obama blew his wad on the wrong issue. He shouldn't have started with this first. The whole planet is going off a cliff ecologically. It's already off the cliff, we're just waiting to hit bottom. What good is it to sell humanity health insurance on the way down? I wish President Obama had concentrated on climate change first. Alternative energy could have transformed our economy and put real money into the pockets of millions, freed us from foreign oil and raised tax revenues so that a better health plan, such as Medicare for all, would have been possible for the government to pay for.

At any rate, we now have no choice but to deal with global warming because floods, droughts, fires and storms are going to become impossible to ignore. Sickening that it has come to this.

It's sad that Obama has surrounded himself with Beltway sleazoids who don't understand the new politics. If there is a primary challenge to him I think it would be constructive though I doubt there will be a serious one. Who in the Democratic Party would run against a sitting Democratic president? Obama has great momentum going toward renomination. But still, I think a challenge might send them a message. The best would be an early challenge, like NOW, so that the message is felt early enough for Obama to have time to wake up and start paying attention to the base. The challenge would probably fail, but it might be a wake up call to the corporate cave ins that could lead to a course correction if the challenge starts early. That's what we need: Political pressure for a COURSE CORRECTION. In the end he'll be renominated and we'll have to vote for him to avoid a rerun of the Bush years, which I think would be worse. Obama's being very foolish about a lot of issues but he's no fascist like Bush was. A challenge to Obama within the Democratic Party should be designed to pressure him, in order to achieve a COURSE CORRECTION. A challenge to him could force him to pay attention to the base. If done right it could be constructive.




Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
grahamhgreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 03:00 PM
Response to Original message
159. I just called, and they hung up on me when I insisted on speaking to a real person, not a machine.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Mon Aug 20th 2018, 12:04 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC