Ady Gil collision footage

[Merchant Marine]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YskxrX0bNKQ

Video is up on youtube of the collision between the Shonan Maru and the Ady Gil.

Some thoughts...

1)Because of the shaky handcamera quality, it may appear that the Shonan Maru was turning into the Ady Gil. This is a trick of the eye and is incorrect.

2)Watch the wake of the Ady Gil- they're under power and maneuvering slowly into the path of the Shonan Maru.

3)After the collision, the camera shows us the wake of the Shonan Maru, clearly indicating that the Shonan Maru was turning hard to port in an attempt to avoid the Ady Gil as required by the rules of the road.

4) Damage to the Gil is serious but not catastrophic. The Gil was not "cut in half", she lost about 3' of bow and is probably structurally ruined. I rate her as a loss due to the fragility of carbon fiber.

5) Official judgement will not be rendered until the ATSB report comes out later this year, but I'd assume 90% of the blame rests on the skipper of the Ady Gil, and 10% on the Shonan Maru. 490 ton ships like the Shonan Maru do not turn or stop on a dime.

Final assesment? This is either a publicity stunt by the Sea Shepherds or a greenhorn mistake made by the crew of the Ady Gil. They came too close to a big ship trying to deploy a prop entangler, and got themselves smashed. 2 million down the tubes.

[LeftyMom]

1. Better video will be forthcoming. This one is from the Japanese, I'd take it with a grain of salt.

1)Because of the shaky handcamera quality, it may appear that the Shonan Maru was turning into the Ady Gil. This is a trick of the eye and is incorrect.

You base your assessment that this is not what is actually happening on what?

2)Watch the wake of the Ady Gil- they're under power and maneuvering slowly into the path of the Shonan Maru.

According to SSCS, they were attempting to reverse out of the path of the whaling vessel.

3)After the collision, the camera shows us the wake of the Shonan Maru, clearly indicating that the Shonan Maru was turning hard to port in an attempt to avoid the Ady Gil as required by the rules of the road.

The video simply does not show this, nor could it based on the placement of the camera.

4) Damage to the Gil is serious but not catastrophic. The Gil was not "cut in half", she lost about 3' of bow and is probably structurally ruined. I rate her as a loss due to the fragility of carbon fiber.

Agreed, the "cut in half" phrasing was a bit much. But the ship is clearly a loss. Anybody who's worked with carbon fiber vehicles of any sort (sports cars, etc) knows that the stuff doesn't lend itself to easy repairs.

5) Official judgement will not be rendered until the ATSB report comes out later this year, but I'd assume 90% of the blame rests on the skipper of the Ady Gil, and 10% on the Shonan Maru. 490 ton ships like the Shonan Maru do not turn or stop on a dime.

Your assumption is based on one short, shaky video taken from the whaling vessel. Better video will be available, as will explanations of what happened from those involved. Making a judgment about fault prior to that point would be, at best, premature.

[Merchant Marine]

2. I'm a merchant marine cadet

I can at least speak from experience when I say that it is very difficult to determine by eye what is happening between two vessels. This is because of relative motion and the fact that the sea provides a poor background for assessing vectors. In the industry we rely primarily on radar for collision avoidance, because radar can plot and determine how relative motion causes courses to converge. Trying to asses relative motion at sea with the eye and the brain is an exercise in futility- we're just not wired for it.

The Ady Gil is simply not reversing. It's a waterjet-driven powerboat, and you can see the streams of bubbles from the jets indicating forward thrust all the way up to the collision. If they had reversed with any real amount of throttle there would be a clear and obvious change in the motion of the vessel and the water around it. We see none of that.

I'd like to note now that the Ady Gil is a powerboat capable of 50 knots in calm water. There is no reason for them to sit in the water as a 490 ton whaler bears down on them. They should be leading the Shonan Maru on as merry a chase as the Nisshin Maru regularly gives the Steve Irwin.

As to the wake of the Shonan Maru, it is a bit of a confusing shot. But you should see a clear bend in the wake of the Shonan Maru. This bend falls offscreen to the right as the Shonan Maru turns, indicating a turn to port. This could not have begun after the collision. I've had the helm of boats of that tonnage, and they take several seconds to even put the rudder over to begin a turn.

Yeah, my assessment isn't based on a whole lot, but I just got through a semester of writing collision assessments and I like to pretend I'm clever on the internet.

[Dead_Parrot]

7. "speak from experience"

Peter Bethune has been working in rough seas for years in oil exploration, designed a boat which took the record for circumnavigating the globe, then took it south with Sea Shepherd categorically stating he would not be ramming anyone.

You're practicing how to wear a funny hat and sit in a classroom.

Who's got the experience there?

"but I just got through a semester of writing collision assessments..."

Gosh, really!?

[A_DayoubKH2]

11. Response to Ady Gil

Dead Parrot I am really not trying to start a fight but your response about who has experience is interesting. So maybe you will listen to mine. I was a US Marine for over seven years doing beach front combat manuevers and not to mention a deep sea fishing hobbiest for over ten years. So I have spent quite a bit of time on boats and in the Marine Corps esspecially Zodiacs which are very similar to the Ady Gil except for the stealth fighter look.

If a ship was in reverse that is a jet propelled craft like the Ady Gil or even a prop boat bubbles would be coming up from under the vessel it would not be leaving a five foot wake behind it. Also the Ady Gil should be able to turn on a dime believe me this is all the skippers fault of the smaller craft.

Above all though I really hate this show and unfortunatley have to watch it due to my fiancee who loves it for the antics they pull. So watching the show for two seasons They Sea Shepherds always cause the incident. They boarded a boat in the last season and said the Jap's took them as hostages???? You have to be taken from your boat to be considered a hostage. When you board another boat that's piracy. So yeah I have a hard time believing anything Sea Shepherd says about anything.

Bottom line I agree with most of what everyone else said the video does not show clearly the movements of the bigger ship but the wake behind the Ady Gil is undeniable that little boat was in motion right to the point of collision and it was towing a rope for a prop fouler behind it which you can also see. The investigative commission is going to blame Sea Shepherd.

What's sad about this show is that their entire message of the whale's life saving is so thinned out and drowned by their bad antics. Most people watch the show to see if they kill themselves today and not really for the whales.

[Dead_Parrot]

13. Sorry dude...

...I got as far as "Zodiacs which are very similar to the Ady Gil except for the stealth fighter look" and gave up reading. See if you can guess why.

[Ignis]

29. That facepalm left a mark. (nt)

[rgbecker]

22. Keep at it, Cadet!

[ProgressiveProfessor]

5. Unless you are claiming the video was edited, the raw video can be interpreted

That said, I agree about other videos being a key to put things in context. I am not sure there is enough context from any single source to support some of the interpretations from either side. If SSCS releases video footage (they claim they have some) then they could be combined for better analysis.

Why do you think the SSCS footage think it will be better?

It is not premature to presume that the master of the Ady Gill will be found primarily at fault. It will happen because he was responsible for the game of chicken that was well underway. That will have more impact than the last 30 seconds. Watson's own words will assure that. He loves the sound of his own voice and its going to hurt him and his cause(again). His claims of defending the seas and enforcing questionable laws will have no standing.

I am not sure that this will be within the purview of the ATSB though the OP is. Certainly AUS civil courts will have little to no effective jurisdiction, as they have had so far in this matter.

[LeftyMom]

9. I suspect it won't look like it was taken with a handicam held by somebody with palsy, for one thing

They have professional photographers along crewing for their own video needs, plus the third party company shooting Whale Wars almost certainly got footage. Since the video we've seen looks like the Japanese maritime version of The Blair Witch Project, any video will help. Also, since SSCS had two boats in the area, the footage from the Bob Barker should show movement of the Ady Gil and the Shonan Maru #2 more clearly and hopefully if it's shot at a reasonable distance in some context. A longer video would also help- the current one is too short to be of any use.

How you presume there was a "game of chicken" underway based on a minute long video in which the Ady Gil barely appears to move, I have no idea. The footage from the Bob Barker will presumably clear that up.

Paul Watson was hundreds of miles away at the time. :shrug: But if you want to blame him go right ahead. Just make sure to throw some blame around at the whalers who did not assist the Ady Gil after her mayday- SSCS has dropped their anti-whaling activities and assisted when the whaling fleet was in distress, notably when they had a man overboard and were attempting a search for the body.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

14. There is additional ICR video footage not in that clip

I don't think the ICR video is gospel, but there is enough of it and Watson's own description to clearly indicate what had been going on. Prop fouling for starters. Maritime chicken is as good a description as any. Its a standard SSCS tactic.

I suspect that ICR has much more footage and the comparison to the Blair Witch Project for the one that is out is quite apt. Additional footage from any source will be helpful. Not sure there will be much of value from the Ady Gil at the time of the collision given the water cannon. There are existing tools that can take multiple views of an event and build automated models. A key part of that is the knowledge of time, position, and bearing. The output can be no better than the data entered and its not like everyone was using IRIG-B for a timebase. Another good thing is that it can be obvious is a video has been tampered with. Any voice loops from the Ady Gil there would be helpful in other areas. Several theories have been discussed that the crew was new to the Ady Gil and seriously screwed up on the throttles. A crew roster would help answer that as well. The net is great for theories.

Watson defines what gets done and how. He is quite explicit about it. Lots of examples in Whale Wars. Purportedly he has always has been that way. The distance is not particularly relevant. If it was, the Israeli leadership would have an easy out for OCL.

You are not the first to question what the Japanese did immediately after the collision. I have wondered that myself. Also if there was any ship to ship comms on the matter. Most important is that no one was killed (First Law of the Sea)

[Hassin Bin Sober]

26. See the video in post number 20. The Japanese changed course to starboard to make contact.

She reveals her port side to the camera in the turn. It's pretty obvious. It appears, at the last minute, she is correcting BACK to her port to either avoid completely running the SS vessel over or give her only a swipe. You can see right at collision the Japanese vessel goes back hard to port - revealing almost her entire starboard side to the camera.


The ironic part is ... I was arguing the "other side" last year when the Steve Irwin rammed the whaler. I argued back and forth with some very strong SS supporters - It turns out I was correct as evidenced by behavior on the bridge shown in the TV series during the incident.

The video angles are similar to last year's incident. In this case, it was the Japanese who did the ramming.

[Goldstein1984]

3. We just discussed it, and we're doubling our monthly support

for the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society in 2010.

I hope every SSCS supporter with adequate financial resources does the same thing.

[tavalon]

21. I've freed up a lot of extra cash that was going to the DNC

It's way past time to quit killing whales. I'll send some their way.

[Ignis]

31. +1

:thumbsup:

[The Traveler]

4. Sorry, I don't see it that way

The Ady Gil was clearly idling ... basically keeping station, making minimal headway. For whatever reason, it is clear she was not at anything resembling maneuvering speed. The wake you point to is really minimal until her engines are revved in a too-late attempt gain headway and avoid collision. It is entirely unclear to me that hand shakiness has anything to do with a "trick of the eye". One knows one is on a collision course when the rate of relative bearing change reaches zero, and at the beginning of this video there is appreciable change in relative bearing. (One can track that by observing the guy wire visible in the opening frames ...) That rate of change falls to near zero quickly, and before the Ady Gil hits her engines. Further, there is no apparent change in angle on the bow ... Ady Gil is not turning.

Since the Ady Gil was clearly not maneuvering, the ship at greater speed (the Japanese vessel in this case) must be responsible for the sudden change in relative bearing that produces a collision course. Face it, dude. The Shonan cut hard to starboard ... I think the Shonan intended to give the Gil a hair cut, not ram her. It looks to me like they just might have crossed the Gil's bow had not the Gil revved up her engines. In short, I think the Gil's driver freaked (understandable) and tried to avoid collision by passing the bow of the Shonan Maru. Because of the water cannon, visibility on the Gil was significantly impaired, and that was probably a contributing factor in making what turned out to be a very poor maneuvering decision.

I also find it significant that the water cannon swings to remain trained on the Ady Gil after the collision. Very bad form, Captain-san.

Ady Gil may have been attempting prop fouling ... but they were in a bad position to accomplish it at that point. And I'm sure Sea Shepherd understood Ady Gil is a poor choice for playing bumper tag with steel hulled vessels of considerably greater displacement ...

I agree with you she is probably totalled, especially given her location. Her hull is seriously compromised and she cannot maneuver in what are notoriously dangerous waters. Ady Gil's crew was clearly placed in mortal danger by the incident but as I understand it have been successfully extracted from the situation. Too bad. That was a beautiful boat ...

Trav

[AllenVanAllen]

19. "Ady Gil may have been attempting prop fouling."

Whatever they were doing, they were caught with their pants down. When the video begins there are several crew members on the top of the Ady Gil looking at something, and they were barley moving. Once they realized the Shonan Maru was baring down on them they couldn't get her going in time. I read they've been having a lot of technical problems with the new equipment.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

6. Still looking for why you think its in AUS territorial waters

[Violet_Crumble]

16. It's a hard, cold fact that it was in Australian territorial waters...

You've already been corrected in a thread in LBN where you claimed wrongly that it happened in international waters. It happened near Commonwealth Bay, which is Australian territorial waters.

[Drunken Irishman]

8. Regardless, that is one awesome bat-ship.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

15. Indeed it was

[Dead_Parrot]

10. Who's ramming who?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/australia/3209484/Whale-protest-boat-cut-in-half

[AllenVanAllen]

12. Wow.

I'm glad nobody was killed or injured. It's a terrible loss for the SSCS but I hope this event will bring a lot of exposure to what's going on there.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

17. YT has pulled the clip...TOS violation

I had assumed the ICR had posted it, perhaps not. There is no account information available now. I assume it is on the ICR website for those who have not seen it

[Dead_Parrot]

18. google "youtube shonan maru ady gill"

It'll turn up. I think it's gone pretty viral.

[Qanisqineq]

20. more video

http://player.video.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/#5A71eeOnsBN7McesFjztDjoc3OBw6lLz

[Hassin Bin Sober]

23. It's clear from that video the Japanese whaler changed course ...

... 20-25 degrees to her starboard to make contact with the SS ship.

[dmr]

27. That looks like an on purpose hit to me n/t

[tekisui]

33. A direct and intentional hit.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

24. You are wrong. See the video in post #20.

The Japanese ship changes course 20-25% to starboard in order to make contact. She reveals her port side as she makes the turn.

[tammywammy]

25. Yep, the Japanese turned toward the ship to hit it. n/t

[Bonobo]

32. What makes you think the boat filming it is stopped still in the water?

Do you understand about relative positions if the boat is moving and how that would affect what you are seeing?

[SidDithers]

28. Another view...

Might be a repost of the same, now yanked, video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Z0diQocPLE&feature=player_embedded

Sid

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

30. Good stuff.

:popcorn: