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n2doc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 07:38 AM
Original message
Toon "You got everything you fought for" - Ouch!
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madokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 07:46 AM
Response to Original message
1. ouch is right
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 07:50 AM
Response to Original message
2. Yep. nt
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oreo3leg Donating Member (18 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 07:54 AM
Response to Original message
3. Spot on.
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 08:04 AM
Response to Original message
4. So many excellent political cartoonists with great insight.
This cartoonist may be one of them, but this is just a shallow attempt at cartoon spittle.

It's funny -- my local newspaper is nothing but a rightwing rag. They have no staff cartoonist, so we get a daily dose from Cagle.com that is an endless stream of anti-Obama rightwing bullshit. Our editor would love this cartoon. He loves it when progressives cannibalize themselves.
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. It's going to be interesting watching the DLC, the Bush Dogs, and others...
try to spin this as the 2010 Election Season warms up
and the people on the street figure out what happened
(and what *DIDN'T* happen) WRT health care.

Your effort is purely diversionary and not very good,
so I'd give it a "2" out of 10; if you want to save
any of the Democratic majorities, you'll have to do
a lot better than that, and right quick!

Tesha
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #6
18. Your dismissal of criticism as a diversion is rank bullshit.
Edited on Wed Dec-30-09 11:11 AM by Buzz Clik
I really don't give a flying fuck about your rating system, but anyone who gives a thumbs up on this cartoon and the anti-Obama spew in general is buying the rightwing propaganda and will be doing the bidding of idiots like Hannity, Limbaugh, and Glen Beck.

It's truly amazing that our so-called "progressives" are so closely aligned with the pharmaceutical industry in their rejection of health care reform. Drawing the line in the sand of "single payer or fuck you!" is no different than rejecting all reform. What an unholy alliance; if that's your game, have at it.
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ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #18
25. It's not right-wing propaganda
to notice that Obama is only fighting for the corporations, and gave up the fight for us early. He only fought for a bill, any bill, and this is the shit we got in response.

You seem to be arguing repeatedly that any criticism must automatically be coming from the right wing. You are ignoring that a large and growing number of people on the left are seeing how useless Obama unless you have a corporate charter. A lot of the critiques are coming from the left. Obama's base is dissolving, and it's his own damned fault.
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Hydra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. Don't bother
DU's DINO fanclub has been out in force telling us how irrelevant we are and how we need to toe the line.

If our opinion(and votes) are so irrelevant, why are they working so hard on the damage control?

They know how bad this bill is, and they know how much damage it does. Somehow that will be made to be our fault, however.
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #27
34. Right. Long-suffering DU idiots who started their campaign of poutrage in September of last year.
click.
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freddie mertz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #34
45. "Poutrage". Check. But when do we get "firebaggers" again?
That remains my favorite.
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #45
70. It's okay. Buzz Click doesn't need us now, but on Wednesday, November 3rd...
Edited on Wed Dec-30-09 06:01 PM by Tesha
...he'll be blaming us for the overwhelming loss of the House
and the Senate to the Republicans. He'll need us then as his
excuse for what happened 'cause it surely can't have been the
lousy policies of Obama, the DLC, and the Bush-Dog Democrats. :(

Tesha
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Old Codger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #70
78. I may be
Unhappy and deeply disappointed in the dems as a whole so far, but some good things have been done that never would have happened without them and I truly believe more to come,I for sure will vote dem come election time, I have a long enough memory to be able to recall the previous regime, and will do all i can to make sure the rethugs do not get any power back. I am capable of criticizing without hating.
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twitomy Donating Member (756 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #70
81. This bill sucks...The left knows it, the right knows it.
Edited on Wed Dec-30-09 08:22 PM by twitomy
However, the right will bash the left for this bill, even though "true" left didnt like it either. It was the DINO's that are repsonsible for this. And the left will pay once again at the polls.
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AlbertCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #81
89. However, the right will bash the left for this bill,
Edited on Wed Dec-30-09 10:01 PM by AlbertCat
Even if it was a single payer bill with a pony and frilly knickers for everyone. The right is predictable and irrelevant.

I wanna know why if 1 Senator can threaten to kill the whole bill unless single payer/ public option/ Medicare buy-in/ the slightest chance someone who needs an abortion might get help is thrown out....why couldn't a progressive Senator threaten everything unless the mandate was taken out?

Besides, the cartoon caption is about "everything you FOUGHT for"... not "everything you wanted or expected". It is only telling the truth.
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leeroysphitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #89
95. Sanders was making noise in that regard at one point but then let it go. n/t
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #27
65. That's the sad part...
When Republicans ram legislation through, all the freeptards have to do is sit back and ridicule the opposition from safely behind their keyboards and microphones... and it will pass. Naturally, because they're told it's good, it must be good because 'their side' is 'winning'.

Liberals and Progressives have lobbyists, the media, and the ignorant half of the country stacked against them, so they have to organize gigantic campaigns and protests. The job of Liberals is virtually impossible, but it must be done.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #25
33. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
spiritual_gunfighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #33
43. Pretty soon you will have ignored the majority of DU
click, indeed!
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #43
50. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 08:05 AM
Response to Reply #43
110. What does it say about DU when the majority here despise our Democratic leaders?
And to think I was called a DINO on this very thread...
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #33
64. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Old Codger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #25
77. Agreed
Actuality for sure.... cartoon is right on the nail head....
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Chulanowa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 03:47 AM
Response to Reply #25
109. I'm not ignoring them
I'm simply dismissing them as slobbering, bib-and-helmet-wearing dumbfucks.
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burning rain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #18
42. Again, what?
It's truly amazing that our so-called "progressives" are so closely aligned with the pharmaceutical industry


I'd say that fighting against drug reimportation, and thus supporting big pharma in continuing to gouge Americans, makes RahmbObama more closely aligned with that predatory industry.
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Moondog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #42
54. +1
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liberation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #18
49. LOL, well thanks for answering the previous poster's question regarding the possible DLC spin
yours is a great example!

I wonder if you DLC types thought us "progressives" wouldn't notice the utter intellectual dishonesty in your spin d'jour.
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #18
66. While it's true that I absolutely wanted Single Payer Health Care, I would have been satisfied...
Edited on Wed Dec-30-09 05:52 PM by Tesha
(at least for now) with a robust public option, but even that
baby step (and its supporters) got tossed under the bus too.
Basically, all we're getting is a mandated gift to the insurance
companies.

And people will figure that out quite soon.

Tesha
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AlbertCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #66
90. And people will figure that out quite soon.
Yes they will.


But like abortion, it's not wise to vote one issue. I hope people will always remember that no matter how lame the Dems are, they are STILL BETTER than Repugs. The average guy always does better under Dems...even if it's not as good as he could do. I'll still be voting AGAINST Repugs in any election. They are just too dangerous. But I won't throw away a vote or spoil a close race for Indies or 3rd party candidates unless they have some real support. And if things continue as they are.... that could be a real happening.

No... I don't always have to be on the winning side. (I voted against Repugs all century) But I want to put my name in with a group that at least has the potential to do some good.
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theFrankFactor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #18
75. Hmmm, I'm Sure You're a Wonderful Progressive But...
that's probably the dumbest thing I've heard someone who "appears" to be either a liberal or a Democrat say. Really, "closely aligned with the pharmaceutical industry"? Absolutely missing the point, the only point I would imagine a "liberal" or even a "Democrat" should be able to see clearly from outer space.

Okay, let's say we (Democrats et al) don't want to emulate the party solidarity and effectiveness of the previous administration that, right out of the gate, made it clear they meant business. Why? Well, apparently if Barack Obama and the Democratic majority approached the effectiveness of the Republicans over the last ten years, that's a bad thing. Personally, I expected us to clean house when we took the keys to the place but that's just me.

So we are to take this little charade of "bipartisanship" and kiss the ring otherwise we are "closely aligned with the pharmaceutical industry". I really, really hope people with your tepid, weak and compromised position are a minority. Otherwise the Democrats are finished.
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 08:20 AM
Response to Reply #75
116. Their mission is the same. Yours, too, apparently.
Edited on Thu Dec-31-09 08:20 AM by Buzz Clik
When you do the bidding for the big pharma, you are aligned with them. Accidentally or otherwise.

Congrats, Frank. You've joined the big crowd of those who've totally lost all perspective.
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kenfrequed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #116
134. Absolute nonsense.
Really?

Why don't you do some actual research rather than parrot blue dog talking points.

Max Baucuus, who was agaisnt single payer, public option, and apparantly medicare for all, and more than a few of his blue dog allies were the very Democrats that voted in favor of Medicare part D which was geared to being a massive giveaway to the pharmaceutical company.

Save the BS spin for Faux news and stick to the facts.
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green917 Donating Member (124 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #18
79. "Single payer or fuck you!"
As an advocate of single payer who is also a realist, I take a lot of offense at your comment!

Most of us (single payer advocates) have never taken the position you so sanctimoniously saddle us with in your comment. What the Dems in Congress, the White House and, apparently, your circle of Democratic politics fail to realize is that we were perfectly willing to compromise but, a strong public option WAS the compromise.

health INSURANCE reform is NOT the same thing as health CARE reform.

The current bill has a little of the former and NONE of the latter and just, flat, isn't good enough! This bill will NOT save anyone any money (in point of fact, it will cost us a shit load in the long run), will not ensure that all Americans have affordable access to health care (kind of the point of health care reform), and is, essentially, a bailout for an industry that has made record profits for the last 30 years. Under this bill, poor and middle class Americans such as myself will be mandated to buy health insurance from one of the major insurance companies punishable by a fine and, perhaps, jail but there is NOTHING to keep said insurance companies from charging whatever the hell they want to charge for that insurance or denying coverage after a claim has been filed. Without a competitive public option to drive down costs, this bill does nothing but give the big insurance and pharmaceutical companies 15 million new unwilling victims to rape on their ridiculous premiums and deny coverage to. I would be willing to bet that, should the bill pass in the current form it has in the Senate, we will see recision (spelling?) rates go up dramatically over the next 10 years.

A great deal has been made about the abolishment of pre-existing conditions but what isn't being talked about is the fact that, under the bill, that clause doesn't kick in until 2014 but the mandate kicks in in 2013. In other words, they can charge all of those people who have pre-existing conditions that are now (in 2013) mandated to buy their insurance, whatever the hell they want (probably 5 times what they're charging everyone else if their track record is any indication) before the no pre-existing conditions clause takes effect.

This bill is NOT health care reform in any way shape or form. I haven't heard any single-payer advocate say "single payer or fuck you!" or anything of the sort. I have heard MANY on your side of the debate tell us that we need to accept "reality" and swallow the fact that we weren't even granted a seat at the table and that we need to swallow a big bite of a shit sandwich because it's "the best we can do" and it's politically expedient. For my money, it's many of the individuals on your side of this debate (including yourself) that is speaking in absolutes and telling the rest of us "fuck you!" and I, for one, take offense at it.
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theFrankFactor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #79
86. Dare I Say It? DITTO!!!!
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green917 Donating Member (124 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #86
88. I shall take that as a big compliment
coming from someone whom I admire greatly (and virtually always agree with)!
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daleanime Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 01:06 AM
Response to Reply #79
104. Nicely put!
:applause:
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 08:22 AM
Response to Reply #79
117. You haven't heard anyone suggest that it's single payer or nothing? BULLSHIT!
We've had months of it here at DU.

Damn, this place is lost.
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 08:53 AM
Response to Reply #117
121. Naturally you can provide us with links to all these months of posts, right? (NT)
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 08:52 AM
Response to Reply #79
120. THANK YOU -- Very well said! (NT)
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Raineyb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-01-10 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #79
148. Bravo! Very well said!
:applause:
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #18
132. What is bullshit is for any progressive
Edited on Thu Dec-31-09 12:41 PM by sabrina 1
to support the passage of a bill that turns what is a right in every other industrial country in the world, into a commodity that is up for sale. And as with everything that is for sale, the rich will be able to afford excellent coverage, while the poor and middle class will be forced to buy substandard care because that is all they can afford.

We're not talking about buying an automobile here, we're talking about people's lives. And don't bother explaining that if you're earning x amount aren't you lucky, the govt. will funnel some tax payer $$ to the Private Insurance Ind to help you out.

The many ways that this administration came up with to make sure the Private Corps benefited most are Machiavellian at best. It disgusts me to see people attempting to defend this by pointing the crumbs being thrown at the middle and lower classes when we are talking about people's lives. And even those crumbs are designed to yield the most profit to Congress's corporate bosses.

Health Care should not be for sale period, with the rich getting excellent care and the poor and middle class forced to buy whatever is left over. This bill is discriminatory, keeping the poor separated from the wealthy on a matter as important as life and death.

Who deserves the best medical care? Can you answer that question?

Democrats have already answered it.

It should be included in the 14th Amendment as a right that should be available EQUALLY to all Americans and I hope that one day when this country finally gets taken over by real Democrats, that is what will happen.

Add to that the unbelievable and totally unacceptable and probably unconstitutional forcing of Americans to buy something from a private vendor that they can't afford or don't want or get a fine. And worse, we now have the IRS acting as a collection agency for a Private Business.

If Republicans had come up this anti-Democratic monstrosity I would be outraged, but not so totally shocked as I am that this came from a Democrtic WH and Congress. I doubt even Republicans could have done worse.

So don't bother with your outrage over the outrage. This should cause every single American to simply refuse to participate in it and demand that we get what everyone else has, a Universal Health Care system which is the right of every human being. And there is now way to defend it, none.

No more compromise. The minute the apologists compromised on a Single Payer system, they knew they were dealing with fools who could be treated like dirt and would like it. And that's what we got. And I blame the apologists for this just as much as those who came up with this abomination.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #6
97. It's not for us to save those who are not worthy of saving.
Edited on Wed Dec-30-09 11:16 PM by truedelphi
This past November gave us the first black person ever on the ballot for the Presidency. Those of us who voted for him took him as the Progressive that he so carefully framed himself as being.

Then it turns out that he is just another DLC cetnrist, though one smart enough to say "I am not a DLC centrist."

This nation is not going to be saved by DLC centrists. Those of that ilk can take their buddies and their appointees and go far far away. We don't need Big Insurer/Big Medical Interest-written health Care Reform Bills - we need real Health Care. And Obama used to know that it meant Single Payer Universal Health care. And I suspect that Michelle Obama fully understands how awful the GMO foods of Monsanto are, or she wouldn't be rolling up her sleeves to farm the land around the WH with organic crops.

We don't need the Bailout that only favors Wall Street. The old Obama campaigned against that too - in October of 2008 he said that he was promising that if the Bailouts as written did not work out for the tax payers who were going to have to pay them off, then he would see to it that the legislation was re-written.

It will be a lot of work to get out from beneath a two party system that has brought this nation to its knees. But like the vitally important movement of the Abolitionists, the movement of the Suffragettes, the movement of those who decried child labor, the movement of those who wanted a forty hour work week with decent wages, it will be done.

When the people lead, the leaders will follow.

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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 09:11 AM
Response to Reply #97
122. It's kinda funny, isn't it?
The Capitalists tell us that "we can't save everybody",
"people have to pull themselves up by their bootstraps",
"Are there no workhouses? Are there no prisons?" and the
like, but when it comes to politics, they throw all those
high principles right out the window and suddenly we've got
to support them, no matter how often and how badly they fail,
even though there are political parties and, indeed, full
political systems out there that are demonstrably far, far
superior to what the (e.g.) DLCers and Bush Dog Democrats
are trying to sell.

I find that rather curious...

Tesha
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #97
127. DLC. Corporatist. Christ. But I do like this quote:
"When the people lead, the leaders will follow."

:rofl:

All the while, those in Congress who created this debacle skate.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #127
139. The people in Congress get a lot of contempt from me too.
But not one of them in my part of California campaigned on "Change that we can believe in."

Not one of them promised that if the BailOut giveaways ended up hurting the Main Street crowd, then the legislation would face a serious overhaul. (Promise made in OCT 2008.)

Not one of them that I know of locally campaigned on the notion of having a strong public option (Which is apparently one of the first things Obama "Forgot" once in office. As he barely mentions it once he is in the Oval Office.

He ran as a Progresive, and he made sure we udnerstood that that was who he was.

So forgive me if I feel lied to, betrayed, shit kicked to the curb etc.

It was just a dream that some of us had.

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burning rain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #4
39. What?
Our editor would love this cartoon. He loves it when progressives cannibalize themselves.


This cartoon aims a gibe at RahmbObama, not progressives.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #4
53. truth hurts. then it makes you incoherent.
Edited on Wed Dec-30-09 04:41 PM by nashville_brook
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #4
99. Maybe, but it also happens to be true.
NT!

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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 08:16 AM
Response to Reply #99
114. Actually, it's not true.
And putting "NT!" in the body of your post is actually text. The point of the "nt" caveat is to indicate to the reader that your subject line contains the entire message and there's no need to open the post. Putting NT in the message is akin to, "I could say something, but I won't."
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #114
140. Yeah, it pretty much is.
NT!

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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #114
143. What is your purpose here? You seem to be always attacking DU posters? What is your purpose? nt
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 01:40 AM
Response to Reply #4
105. How dare you call holding Pres Obama accountable as cannibalizing.
How dare you criticize us who want a decent, I SAID DECENT, health care bill. Who want to get corporate influence out of Washington DC.
How dare you criticize us on the left that are not in lock step with the DL fucking C. Fuck the corporate masters. It's time to bring them down.
Are you for us or for CorpAmerica? I hate to say it but George fucking Bush was right. You are either for corporatism/fascism or against.
You need to choose.

We want to end the domestic spying. Repeal the Patriot Act. bring back habeas corpus and posse comitatus. We want an end to the wars. We want jobs in the US. Are you with us or against us?

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Autonomy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 02:41 AM
Response to Reply #105
108. George Bush was right?
You're either for us or against us? It's all or nothing, black and white? Say no more. We understand what "side" you're on now.
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #108
128. So tell me how you stand on the issues? Or explain how you can be "in the grey"
about war, health care, domestic spying. I am on the side of freedom and against corporatism. Explain how that isnt a black or white decision. If you dont like what I said, then you explain how you stand on the issues. Show me how you can be in between. I have asked this over 20 times and all I get is insults.
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Autonomy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #128
131. You've never asked me before.
Though I only replied regarding the "corporatism" idea, I will respond to all your questions.

War. Wars of choice, like Iraq, are evil. Wars of self-defense, where you were attacked first, are not evil. Afghanistan is one of those begrudging in-betweens due to the facts of the situation.

Health care. None of us is going to live forever. Anything that increases quality and quantity of life is good. Something that increases life a little bit for some people is not as good as something that increases it a lot for a lot of people.

Domestic spying. The whole thing was shady even before it got shady. They were allowed to warrantless wiretap as long as they got the warrant AFTER they got the info they wanted. And that was when the issue was not an issue. Now, of course, it's worse. Shades of grey. Of course, I am not even mentioning the good it can do in stopping terrorists.

It's your depiction of "corporatism" with which I had the issue, and it's not the lack of shades of grey in your construct, it's the poles of your construct. You seem to see the world as if corporate executives are at one end of the pole, and everyone else -- their slaves -- are at the other end.

The first problem is obvious: none of these so-called masters were born masters. Without the caste system, they must have worked to get where they are, and such work is consistent with American values. Second, they're not much for being masters. Stockholders are at the whim of the public more so than the public is at theirs. People lose money investing in corporations all the time, and execs get fired all the time. So who is the mastermind in charge of this beast?

No one. Because it's not a beast, or a master. Corporations are not overlords. They are just powerful, mostly because they are a business collective, and the extant ones have performed well. They provide many jobs directly and indirectly.

I agree that there is a lot of bad stuff involving corporations. The whole TARP giveaway was unseemly. But 'too big to fail' just might be a reality. Corporations are also too influential in politics. But they are still less powerful than the people overall. But not all the people support limiting the power of corporations, so they continue to unduly influence elections and policy. Their power is not absolute, or even close to it, however.

That's about all I can write for now. I have to get my day started. Happy New Year.


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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #131
136. The earlier post i made that you responded to, was to a lefy-hater.
Frankly, I am getting tired of those posters in here that continuously attack the left as if the left was their enemy. They refuse to discuss issues only take cheap shots at the left. I question their motives.

I appreciate your providing your stands on a couple of issues. I think that we probably agree on most. I do disagree with you re corporatism. We do live in a caste system. Did the CEO's work for what they get? George W. Bush hasnt worked a decent day's work in his life and he became president. I am willing to bet that all CEO's of major corporations were born into the ruling class. Yes they may work hard, but not harder than a pipe fitter, mechanic or welder? I dont mind microsoft fighting to get ahead, but when the bankers take my money and gamble with it knowing that I will bail them out if they fail, AND pay them an obscene salary, even when they fail, that is wrong. It's my money and I can make rules on what bankers can do with it. Capitalism, unregulated, will destroy itself and the rest of us with it.

Have a Happy New Year.
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 08:14 AM
Response to Reply #105
113. When you start spewing the "corporate masters" bullshit, you lose your audience.
DU is now roughly evenly split between the insane left, rightwing infiltrators, and long-time Democrats who are politically savvy.

Your "corporate masters" lunacy ranks up there with Nixon blaming "communist masters" for instigating anti-Vietnam riots. Nobody buys it except those who are desperate and the like minded.
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #113
129. Name calling is easy but not becoming. Explain where you stand on the issues.
I stated how I stand. I am against domestic spying and the Patriot Act. Is that insane left? How do you stand on those issues? And plez explain what the hell politically savvy means. I am guessing it is code for "we will give up some of our freedoms for security" or "we will give up the PO so we can get Lieberman's vote". Am I wrong?

Instead of calling people names, talk about issues. Do you support NAFTA? or is opposing it to "insane left"?
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kenfrequed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #113
135. Feh
Yeah, "corporate masters" is such a ridiculous thing to say, but apparantly "insane left" is completely acceptable.

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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #113
141. And you're the middle one. Transparent as glass.
NT!

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Autonomy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 02:28 AM
Response to Reply #4
107. On Republicans winning back Congress in 2010
Q: How will Republicans convince the Democratic majority of voters that Congress' lack of accomplishment in HCR is the fault of the Democratic Congress and Obama?

A: They won't have to; the left wing Democratic voters won't show up to vote because Republicans were able to dilute the health care bill(s).

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Marr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #4
137. I'm sure he would love it.
The same way I loved watching much of the right-wing's populist base abandon their corrupt Republican Party. The fault remained with the Republican Party's establishment, however-- no matter who smiled.
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trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 08:25 AM
Response to Original message
5. That one does indeed sting. n/t
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 09:30 AM
Response to Reply #5
14. +1 n/t
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 09:01 AM
Response to Original message
7. Truth hurts.
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surrealAmerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 09:24 AM
Response to Original message
8. k & r.
That nails it.
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baldguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 09:26 AM
Response to Original message
9. So, is Matt Bors going to get the Jane Hamsher treatment now?
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #9
22. MATT BORS IS A RACIST FUCKING PIG!!1111!!!1111
Get ready, it's coming.
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Moochy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #9
73. DEAD TO ME!
GLEN GREENWALD/HAMSHER/NORQUIST/BORS/PALIN/DEAN/KUCINICH/HUFFINGTON is DEAD TO ME!!!!1111
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carla Donating Member (294 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #73
82. Can't accept the truth?
Obama has failed US ALL.
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Moochy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #82
83. the all caps made the sarcasm not obvious
please add this to the above post: :sarcasm:

The cartoon is brutally honest.

I hope a better bill comes out of the reconciliation of the House-Senate versions.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #9
101. 
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Selatius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 09:26 AM
Response to Original message
10. Yeah, this one does indeed sting. We got fucked on this for a half-way measure at best. nt
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 09:27 AM
Response to Original message
11. That's not fair - 3 of the crossed out were 'optional' alternatives
Edited on Wed Dec-30-09 09:55 AM by HughMoran
...that Obama played no part in. It was never intended to 'cover everyone' either - nobody thought it would do that. Good thing it takes a huge stretch and an ignoring of all the good in the bill to make a really disingenuous cartoon these days. Thanks for nothing - this is not what we need to be celebrating here, though I'm sure the sleazy lying right-wingers love it.

Edit: and saying he didn't fight for alternatives that were raised and defeated in Congress without Obama's involvement carries NO weight with me at all. Obama may not have fought hard enough for the Public Option - we may never know for sure, but this cartoon just disingenuously expands on this and loses all credibility in my eyes.
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baldguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #11
16. The point is he didn't FIGHT for anything.
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Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #16
29. He did so FIGHT hard for his core beliefs and to keep the LIBERALS down
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MissDeeds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #29
38. Sadly true
Good grief. So this is our change?

:cry:
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Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #38
76. The change we can believe in became "the chains we can die in"
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #11
23. And Obama actually *did* fight for one of them: the ridiculous, bait-and-switch "trigger"
10/16/09: Obama's 'trigger' stance irks the Hill: http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2009/10/26/obamas_t...

10/23/09: Public Option near, but White House pushes Trigger: http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/public-option-su...


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freddie mertz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #11
46. "MAY not have fought hard enough"?
To listen to him now, he never even HEARD of the public option.

To me, that was his "Mission Accomplished" moment.
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invictus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 09:28 AM
Response to Original message
12. K&R
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chimpymustgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 09:29 AM
Response to Original message
13. Truth hurts. The mother fucking truth.
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #13
17. +1 nt
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #13
19. It's not the truth. It's silly hyperbole by a poor cartoonist.
If that's your concept of the truth... :scared:
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. You're right. Obama also fought for his sweetheart deal with Big Pharma.
I don't see how BORS could have missed that! :shrug:
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ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #19
32. Right, the truth would have added "corporate sweetheart deals"
to that list. He definitely fought for those. He even had private, closed door negotiating sessions to make sure those sweetheart deals went through no matter what.

"Guaranteed profitability for corporations" would be on that list. He promised that early, and defended that ardently.

"No advocates of Universal Health care allowed at the negotiating table" would be on that list too. He was responsible for that pre-condition too, and he stood by it to the very end.

Yes, if this cartoon was more truthful it would have had more teeth and would have hit Obama even harder. That "poor cartoonist" was being nice.
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liberation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #32
51. what is wrong with you people? Believing your lying eyes and not the DLC talking point d'jour?
I sense a disturbing lack of hope and not enough waxing about change in your posts... don't make me report you to your friendly thought police. Mr. Emmanuel does not take lightly such offenses!
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #51
59. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
liberation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #59
61. At least I hope he gets paid...
... it would be downright silly to shill for free in these tough economic times. But you never know, there are plenty of useful idiots willing to do the ground work for free given the correct marketing angle.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #59
68. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
emald Donating Member (718 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #32
58. +1
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #19
144. Seems you are the only one here objecting to holding the Pres accountable. nt
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Soylent Brice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 09:36 AM
Response to Original message
15. K&R
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WT Fuheck Donating Member (392 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 11:13 AM
Response to Original message
20. He may already be a weiner
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Edweird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
24. Yep.
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gulliver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
26. It's about the level of quality one would expect...
...in terms of wit and artistic skill. It's meaningful, but only if you have low standards. Mainly, it's just mean.
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Hydra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. As compared to the meanness of the bill
This is a positive feather.
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frylock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #26
47. are you talking about the wealthcare reform bill?
insightful if so.
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Hello_Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #26
52. Mean??
Poor widdle Rahmie. Got his fee fees hurted. :cry:
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #26
55. somebody call the wahmbulance.
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lark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #26
63. Compared to the truth of what happened
the cartoon is playing nice and cuddly. Everyday regular folks got sold down the river of corporate profits, just like always. Doesn't seem to matter who's in control, the results aren't that different.

Sad.
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HughBeaumont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #63
123. I think we well know who's in control of THIS country.
And it sure as hell ain't any politician.

To get the change we WANT, the old white man cabal and their toxic "us first and us ONLY" attitude that runs this country has to have a mass die-off. America is not going to survive even one more decade of unbridled corporatism.
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 08:23 AM
Response to Reply #26
118. It does, however, serve a purpose. Not the purpose previously seen at DU, but it's a new day.
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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
30. K&R.
A tidy summary of a full year's theatrics.
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Enrique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
31. the red marker in Rahm's pocket
nice touch. :thumbsup:
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Chisox08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 01:26 PM
Response to Original message
35. The bill that Rahm wanted all along
Traitor Joe LIEberman was just the public face for what they really wanted in this bill.
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gmoney Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 01:46 PM
Response to Original message
36. "Welcome to the Public Option"
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 08:26 AM
Response to Reply #36
119. And there it is: the ultimate in stupidity. The new bill has a provision for debtors' prisons.
Ranks right up there with Palin's death panels.

And right here at DU.

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Bozita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 02:29 PM
Response to Original message
37. Bullseye!
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 03:11 PM
Response to Original message
40. Spot on
and sad more than funny.
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 03:12 PM
Response to Original message
41. And, the use of the sucker punch was brilliant! K&R
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freddie mertz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 03:22 PM
Response to Original message
44. That's just too true. nt.
Thanks a lot Rahmmy Boy.
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VPStoltz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 04:22 PM
Response to Original message
48. An apt moniker for the "artist."
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MisterP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #48
57. do you mean Bors or Newt Emanuel? nt
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RetroLounge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 04:44 PM
Response to Original message
56. K&R
The spin-leaders are fading fast.

RL
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girl_interrupted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #56
60. Too bad he left Credit Card "Reform" off the list
There is now a bank charging 79.9% on one of its credit cards. And why not? The Credit Card "Reform" bill had no Caps. Concealed weapons in National Parks..yes..Caps...No. What a "change", sure wasn't for the best.
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HBravo Donating Member (239 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 05:11 PM
Response to Original message
62. This is sad..................Ouch
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bigwillq Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 05:51 PM
Response to Original message
67. Good toon.
:thumbsup:
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Moochy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 05:56 PM
Response to Original message
69. K&R
Edited on Wed Dec-30-09 05:58 PM by Moochy
comedy = tragedy + time. Not sure if enough time has passed since its not started reconciliation process yet, but
I think its both humorous and painful!
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 06:10 PM
Response to Original message
71. We might as well admit it...what's left in the bill is meaningless.
Nothing in it is of any value if the result is that the insurance trust gets richer.
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AlbertCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #71
92. Nothing in it is of any value
It's what happens when you try to reform without changing anything.
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harun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #92
96. It really reminds me of what happened with the bills that were suppose to help
home owners. They never really helped any home owners. They just helped mortgage holders.

Most of the people I have talked to are expressing this same concern. That after this bill is passed they will find out it only helps a few thousand people, just like the bills that were suppose to help home owners.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 06:12 PM
Response to Original message
72. A bit like the half measure stimulus
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democrank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 06:25 PM
Response to Original message
74. Love the red pen, Rahm!
K & R
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 07:59 PM
Response to Original message
80. That sums it up nicely.
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sce56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 08:57 PM
Response to Original message
84. The toon is spot on! The whole thing makes you wonder!
Like that comedian would say as part of his routine, I think it was Bill Hicks
"When the President elect gets ready for his inauguration he is taken into a cigar smoke filled room full of big business types. They play a movie of the JFK assassination from an angle the public has never seen after it is over the new President gets up they say to him any questions hes states just one what is my agenda"
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 09:19 PM
Response to Original message
85. OUCH is sure right...
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 09:45 PM
Response to Original message
87. K&R
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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 10:15 PM
Response to Original message
91. Well, I'm glad the trigger was crossed off
Honestly I'd rather be honest and have a bill with no PO than a bill that pretends to have a PO with a bullshit trigger that will never be pulled.
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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 10:49 PM
Response to Original message
93. K and R
but it's so depressing....he's playing with people's lives. I was so hoping I could do Medicare buy-in and get my knee and hip fixed. I'll just go to the Thrift Store and see if I can buy a cane second hand.

Fucking liar...not that I'm surprised.

See what 'hope' gets you? Nothing.
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amborin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 10:57 PM
Response to Original message
94. K&R
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slay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 11:23 PM
Response to Original message
98. Nice burn!
And by that I mean the burn Obama did to his supporters and the American people. Seriously Obama - that whole bullshit "change you can believe in" crap - yeah, nice burn. :mad:
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The Midway Rebel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 11:36 PM
Response to Original message
100. Ummm yah pretty much the deal-ee-o!
SNAP!
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 11:44 PM
Response to Original message
102. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Dinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 12:02 AM
Response to Original message
103. Oh My. Bookmarking And Saving Kick & Rec # 209
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avaistheone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 02:26 AM
Response to Original message
106. Ouchey!
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 08:09 AM
Response to Original message
111. And this, my friends, is DU in a microcosm. 25% of the posts have been deleted...
... because this cartoon is hateful and completely against our administration. This kind of intentional flame baiting used to get locked in the first hour. Now, it's become protected at DU.

The cesspool becomes more rancid every day.
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 08:12 AM
Response to Reply #111
112. Says the guy who visits everyday.
"I hate this place...when does it open?"
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unapatriciated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #112
138. +1
:rofl:
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neverforget Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #112
145. Ha!
:spray:
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freddie mertz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #111
124. Why do you hate freedom of expression? Does it scare you? nt.
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 09:21 AM
Response to Reply #111
125. (Post removed by author) (NT)
Edited on Thu Dec-31-09 09:23 AM by Tesha
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Dappleganger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #111
130. Agreed.
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #111
142. In our party we hold our representatives accountable. You call that hateful. You call DU a cesspool.
I would say that is hateful. I am curious what you actually stand for. Do you post anything that isnt tearing others down?
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Le Taz Hot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 08:20 AM
Response to Original message
115. Can't "R" (too late) but can K. N/T
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mochajava666 Donating Member (771 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 09:26 AM
Response to Original message
126. Feingold said exactly what the cartoon indicates
I suppose Feingold is also a liar now. I'll believe Russ over Rahm any day.

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guardian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
133. Good one
I'm forwarding to my email friends.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-01-10 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
146. The SNL parody of Obama's accomplishments has this toon beat
but they are both on target.

Who can forget SNL's "Biden" saying that Obama would sign anything that has Health Care Reform on the title page?
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-01-10 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
147. Well, at least, he got HIS pony.
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