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Prometheus Bound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 05:10 PM
Original message
Swine flu: the plague that never was
James Chin
Dec 18, 2009

...there is sufficient data since April to show that this virus is less severe than normal seasonal flu and that efforts to prevent the spread of this pandemic were futile - especially hand washing, still promoted by the WHO, the US Centres for Disease Control and Prevention, and other national agencies.

The WHO estimates that recent normal seasonal influenza viruses have killed between 250,000 to 500,000 people a year - about 0.005 per cent of the world population. This can be used as a yardstick to compare the severity of past and current influenza pandemics.

....As of late 2009, the new H1N1 virus had actually killed fewer people overall than recent seasonal influenza viruses, although it may be more severe for children.

....When I asked Ed Kilbourne, an emeritus professor at New York Medical College whom I consider to be the dean of influenza experts, about the effectiveness of hand washing for preventing influenza transmission, he said that influenza is transmitted through inhalation, rather than by touching contaminated objects: "Hand washing does nothing to curtail the spread of influenza but it may be a good substitute for hand wringing."

....It is now clear that the 2009 H1N1 virus is not as deadly as current seasonal influenza viruses and that public health efforts to contain its spread were largely wasted.

Dr James Chin is clinical professor of epidemiology at the School of Public Health, University of California, Berkeley, and former chairperson of the US national Advisory Committee for Immunisation Practices
pay (Hong Kong): http://www.scmp.com/portal/site/SCMP/menuitem.2af62ecb329d3d7733492d9253a0a0a0/?vgnextoid=0004060cd8c95210VgnVCM100000360a0a0aRCRD&ss=Insight&s=Opinion

free (Turkey): http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.php?n=downgrading-the-2009-h1n1-influenza-pandemic-2009-12-21
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 05:12 PM
Response to Original message
1. Are there any profit figures re the company(ies) producing the vaccine?
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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. It is good that it wasn't as severe, and easy to assume that this was some capitalist
endeavor to enrich the pharmaceutical companies since it appears to be OK

but what if that wasn't the case?

I will remind you that when people started dying in Mexico, no one knew how bad it was going to be, so they did the prudent thing and took precautions

Of course, if it did turn out to be bad, and there wasn't enough vaccine, I could see criticism against the pharmeceuticals for not being able to produce enough vaccine

Damn if you do, and damn if you don't

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itsrobert Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 05:14 PM
Response to Original message
2. Perfect timing. I was wondering what ever happened to the Swine Flu Alarmist?
I guess they are out celebrating the massive Health Insurance Stimilius that the Democrats are giving them since the alarmist are actually big pharma employees.
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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. I would hope you don't take any vaccines or antibiotics since it might enrich those big pharma
companies


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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. right here. htis is the attittude and was right there during h1n1 scare. we are all gonna die
attitude.

dare to question, ask or comment and means not gonna ever ever take a drug or vac under any circumstance. yup. there is the rational conclusion.

and what people are fuckin sick and tired of the all or nothing arguers.
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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. anyone can comment all they want, because it is easy after the fact isn't it, while those
who are responsible for the well being of a country have to consider the risk/rewards

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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. west niles, sars, super bug, avain flu.... we have been there done that.
many of us have learned to be aware and on toes and not hair on fire.
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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Actually, you weren't in Hong Kong during SARS I take it. Not only were people dying
but there was real fear


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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. there was real fear world wide, like world wide real fear of h1n1. no one is saying it is a fake
fear. pretty real.
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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. I can't argue with you, you are to rational /nt
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. *sigh* isnt it refreshing. nt
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endless october Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 05:36 PM
Response to Original message
7. sounds more like the strategy to combat it has been successful so far
flu season isn't even close to over, also.

it's almost funny :

if the flu control strategy works, it was all a conspiracy to make money by scaring people.

if the flu control strategy doesn't work, why didn't they do more? they want people to die so they can make more money!

i'm still glad i got the shot. your results may vary.
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spoony Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Spot on. Absolutely right! nt
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. we didnt even have the shot when h1n1 came sweeping thru our city in oct.
vac didnt come into town until mid nov
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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. That is because it was physicially impossible to produce the vaccine in the time frame
the government said it would be ready

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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. i understand. was one of the few to understand. as flu sittin in our town, no vac and posters
on du speaking out about the irresponsibility, imminent death and murdering ways of those not getting vac

THAT WASNT AVAILABLE.
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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. I hear you, but isn't that what happens on everything, including the HCR. No matter what your
Edited on Thu Dec-24-09 06:02 PM by still_one
position, one side is claiming doom and gloom if it passes, and the other doom and gloom if it doesn't

and very rarely are their absolutes





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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #16
22. unless you dont play the game. but yes... nt
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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. but but, what is the fun in not playing the game /nt
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itsrobert Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. You caught them in their lie
They are saying the planning was a success. But most American still do not have the vaccine. They are full of it.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #17
23. that is what i was saying when all the threads were happening. here. now. amarillo. no vacs
and people arent dying. barely above a flu sick. son had it, tired, not hungry, headache, low grade fever for four days... not even as scary as real flu. but the hype put fear in me up there with all the other threats to our loved ones.
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. Exactly.
The same people whining about the lack of an "epidemic" would be screaming even louder if it had been more severe, and we had chosen to do little about it.

This is all about entertainment, anymore. It's ludicrous BS.
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Mudoria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 04:53 AM
Response to Reply #7
32. +1
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Prometheus Bound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 06:04 PM
Response to Original message
19. DU polls show most DUers weren't too concerned.
Apr 26: Poll question: So how scared should we be of this swine flu?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5539899

Apr 30: Poll question: Where are you on swine flu?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5570536

Apr 30: Poll question: Swine flu: How worried are you?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x8381749

Sept 3: Poll question: Are you getting the H1N1 (swine) flu vaccine?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6457204

Nov 11: Poll question: Have you or do you plan on getting the swine flu vaccine?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x9119584
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Speck Tater Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 06:12 PM
Response to Original message
21. It was right up there with bird flu. Next thing you know people will stop believing the hype. nt
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krabigirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 06:27 PM
Response to Original message
24. Yep. Lol, I have it right now though, and got bronchitis from it.
Edited on Thu Dec-24-09 06:28 PM by krabigirl
Luckily it hasn't yet turned into pneumonia, but I've been really sick for over a week now. Thank goodness for antibiotics. I don't think it was worth a vaccine (my kids got it but were only sick for 2-3 days), but it's not fun either.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-25-09 06:41 PM
Response to Original message
26. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
jdp349 Donating Member (372 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-25-09 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. READ THE POST ABOVE
Edited on Fri Dec-25-09 07:18 PM by jdp349
the delusional rants of a conspiracy theorist.

We know who you are LABVIRUS! You cannot hide from us! WE KNOW EVERYTHING! the world is ours!
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-25-09 07:26 PM
Response to Original message
28. "although it may be more severe for children"
You can't have the most critical aspect of this flu be a single phrase - it's a sign that an agenda is in action.

One of my daughters basketball teammates couldn't play for 2 weeks due to pneumonia due to swine flu. One of my coworkers also got pneumonia from swine flu. We had a pretty severe outbreak here in eastern Mass - if people weren't taking extra precautions and sending people home who were sick, it could have been a LOT worse. Armchair quarterbacks are a dime a dozen and therefor they are worthless for the most part. Children dying from the flu is nothing to write off - especially for those of us who had kids in one of the most infected school systems.
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Prometheus Bound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 12:39 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. What is that 'agenda' you speak of?
The critical word in that phrase I thought was the tentative 'may'.
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Lionel Mandrake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 01:49 AM
Response to Original message
30. H1N1 flu is unlike any other.
It spread alarmingly at the wrong time of year.

It attacked young people more than it attacked old people.

The H1N1 epidemic is not over. It may well pick up early next year. Nobody knows for sure.

The good news is that the H1N1 vaccine shortage in this country is over.

The smart thing to do would be to get a shot now if you haven't already done so.
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Mr. James Donating Member (14 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 03:52 AM
Response to Original message
31. Well, all I know is...
All I know is that my sister (a social worker) had a three year old client die from it. Whether it was a freak thing or within the realm of probability, I don't know.
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Electric Monk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 04:57 AM
Response to Original message
33. Donald Rumsfeld made some nice coin from all the Tamiflu sales, though.
Let's not forget that aspect of this recent 'pandemic' http://www.snopes.com/politics/medical/tamiflu.asp
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