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ThomWV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 08:11 PM
Original message
I resent being told the Public Option was just a figment of my imagination
Edited on Wed Dec-23-09 09:00 PM by ThomWV
I'm tired of being told that the Public Option was just something that I pulled out of my ass and that no one running for office told me was what they wanted for the country as well. God dam, if they changed their minds they should just say so, but don't tell me I'm full of shit for thinking I was told my party or those I voted for, were once for it too.
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eleny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 08:13 PM
Response to Original message
1. And don't pee on my head and say it's raining
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Hepburn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 08:18 PM
Response to Original message
2. Can't believe your lyin' ears?
Same here....sigh. KNR
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 08:20 PM
Response to Original message
3. It's not.... It was the foot in the door that we wanted to get access to single payer.
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Hello_Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #3
61. Yup, Heard that one a lot from Hillary supporters during the primaries.
The public option, and to a certain extent the "foot in the door to single payer", were the major selling points of the mandate.
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 08:20 PM
Response to Original message
4. It's not.... It was the foot in the door that we wanted to get access to single payer.
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Hissyspit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 08:47 PM
Response to Original message
5. Remember (just a few months ago) when we thought we were fighting for something BETTER
than the public option?
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 08:48 PM
Response to Original message
6. What Public Option?
Never heard of it, and if I did, Obama didn't say it...
And even if he DID, it wasn't really part of the REAL "campaign",
AND I DEFY your attempts to make me admit it with your phony screen caps, direct quotes, and video!

You're just a hater, and anyway,
JANE HAMPSHIRE IS A RACIST!!1!!11

Guess I showed you!


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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 01:55 AM
Response to Reply #6
16. +1 nt
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ipaint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 02:18 AM
Response to Reply #6
21. lol. That sums it up. nt
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Goldstein1984 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #6
42. I wish I had written that!
Thanks
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EndElectoral Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 08:53 PM
Response to Original message
7. Good post.
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mascarax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 08:58 PM
Response to Original message
8. Your figment of imagination is on page 10 of the Democratic Party Platform 2008
That's pretty cool, ThomWV, how you managed to get your figment published! :-)

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waiting for hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. +1
And Page 50 of that very same platform says this:

Choice

The Democratic Party strongly and unequivocally supports Roe v. Wade and a woman's right to choose a safe and legal abortion, regardless of ability to pay, and we oppose any and all efforts to weaken or undermine that right.

The Democratic Party also strongly supports access to comprehensive affordable family planning services and age-appropriate sex education which empower people to make informed choices and live healthy lives. We also recognize that such health care and education help reduce the number of unintended pregnancies and thereby also reduce the need for abortions.

The Democratic Party also strongly supports a woman's decision to have a child by ensuring access to and availability of programs for pre- and post-natal health care, parenting skills, income support, and caring adoption programs.


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Jamastiene Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 03:27 AM
Response to Reply #11
27. Yet, they did the exact opposite.
:mad:
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #11
32. You're not reading that right.
If you understand that 'war is peace' then you'll be able to understand why Stupak and Nelson actually strengthened women's rights.

Can't you liberals get with the program and stop whining about everything? You're spoiling all the fun as usual!

:mad:
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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #11
38. thanks for this.

another figment.
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 01:58 AM
Response to Reply #8
18. Thank you! I am weary of being bashed as a whacko for advocating for the party platform
Or is it just whoever wins our nomination gets to do whatever they want? If so I see no reason our delegates should spend all that time at the convention. Let's just show up on the last night, listen to the pretty speech and coronate the nominee.
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Jamastiene Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 03:29 AM
Response to Reply #18
28. The LEAST they could do is stop hounding us for money all the time.
Then, look what they do when they DO get all the power. They turn around and tell liberals to fuck off, then "give him what he wants" to any right winger who wants it.
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oreo3leg Donating Member (18 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-29-09 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #28
72. Gotta have $$ for more promices and more
promices :-(
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Ignis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #8
35. You're 100% correct. And you'll get *crickets* from detractors.
Covering All Americans and Providing Real Choices of Affordable Health Insurance Options.

Families and individuals should have the option of keeping the coverage they have or choosing from a wide array of health insurance plans, including many private health insurance options and a public plan. Coverage should be made affordable for all Americans with subsidies provided through tax credits and other means.


Platform here: http://www.democrats.org/a/party/platform.html
PDF download: http://www.democrats.org/pdfs/2004platform.pdf

Unfortunately, some people don't let facts get in their way.
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chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 09:00 PM
Response to Original message
9. You're not supposed to remember anything he said
or campaigned on unless it was about Afghanistan.
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 09:03 PM
Response to Original message
10. >
:nopity:
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waiting for hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Nice sig line -
Guess you get to pick and chose what facts matter in order for the violin to come out.
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Dragonfli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 06:03 AM
Response to Reply #12
29. No No No that is obviously a typo, it should read "Fax Matters".
The violin is just a stop gap to fill posts until someone faxes him with the newest official version of the past and or any relevant "facts" that had to be made up to justify the topic dejour.

Contrary to popular belief some are entitled to their own facts. (or is it fax - doesn't matter - one and the same)
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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #29
56. or maybe, "FOX matters".

:shrug:
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #12
33. Rotfl! n/t
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #10
43. You do realize that your derisive smilie here is in contradiction
to your sig line.

It's been PROVEN that Obama campaigned for the Public Option. You can't deny it and still remain an honorable person.
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Electric Monk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-25-09 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #43
68. WIN. They changed their sigline. They still haven't admitted to being wrong, though.
I'm not holding my breath.
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chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 11:33 PM
Response to Original message
13. Here's some first hand video of your figment:
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Libertas1776 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 11:42 PM
Response to Original message
14. Oh ThomWV,
don't you see, it never happened. It was all just a figment of your imagination. :sarcasm: Now go to sleep...go to sleep, America. And when you wake up...YOU'LL BE SURROUNDED BY DOCTORS WITH PIG SNOUTS FOR NOSES. *cue the Twilight Zone music*

Well, at least according to this administration, the last year was just one long episode of the Twilight Zone and there never was a public option. It was just a snipe hunt, a distraction for us gullible lefties to chase while the real "reforming" was going on in a smoke filled room. :eyes:
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Bette Noir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #14
53. Yeah, well, without the distractions we wouldn't have spent all that time,
money, and effort campaigning for him.

Dayyum. I want to like the guy, but he lies like a Republican.
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unapatriciated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #14
59. I remember that episode and yes we are in the Twilight Zone
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DKRC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 01:53 AM
Response to Original message
15. K&R
:kick:

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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 01:57 AM
Response to Original message
17. K&R
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ZombieHorde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 02:04 AM
Response to Original message
19. That is kind of weird.
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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 02:12 AM
Response to Original message
20. I also seem to remember him attacking Clinton on mandates...
Edited on Thu Dec-24-09 02:13 AM by JCMach1
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Liquorice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 02:44 AM
Response to Reply #20
24. There is an ironic typo in that article. It says...
"Acknowledging that his plan shares the same goal of universal coverage as Clinton's, he said his would wouldn't force people to buy insurance. He emphasized that Clinton has made the difference between the two plans a centerpiece of her argument."

(bolded by me)
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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 03:24 AM
Response to Reply #24
26. 'would' be funny... but
:(
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #20
34. His thinking has evolved .... n/t
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pocoloco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #34
58. survival of the fittest........
Social Darwinism?
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kath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 02:20 AM
Response to Original message
22. I freakin' HATE liars.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 02:32 AM
Response to Original message
23. STOP BEING HATER, THOMWV
yup, that's what we are being told :mad:
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johnaries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 02:47 AM
Response to Original message
25. Exaggerate much? Here are the FACTS
Obama campaigned on several things, one of them being HEALTH CARE REFORM.

Within his Health Care Reform plan he specifically broke it down into several smaller plans. ONE of those plans was a Health Insurance Exchange. PART of the Exchange plan was a not-for-profit "Public Option".

It certainly was not the "lynchpin" of his campaign. In fact, he only mentioned it occasionally, and then only within the broader plan of an Insurance Exchange which was only one piece of one of many policies that he campaigned on. Every other piece of the Health Care Reform that he emphasized during his campaign is included in the Senate bill, including the Health Insurance Exchange with provisions for a non-profit option.

Obama repeatedly told us that the Public Option was a miniscule part of the overall Health Care Reform plan. He also said he was willing to accept any other ideas if they would perform the same competitive functions as a Public Option, since the purpose of the PO was to supply competition to keep prices down. Luckily, the bill includes other measures (such as restricting the MLR) that will help keep prices down.

The Public Option gained the most media attention because it was the most contentious part of Obama's HCR plan, thanks to the "anti-Socialist" fear-mongers. Although Obama did mention it occasionally during the campaign as part of a much broader reform, he did not campaign on it specifically.

Realistically, look at past Presidential campaigns and see how their "campaign promises", well, "evolved" once they actually became President.

The first thing that comes to my mind was Jimmy Carter's promise to kill the B1 bomber program during his campaign. He later did a complete reversal as he became privy to new information as President. I am not "dissing" Carter - if we had listened to him then we would not have many of the problems we have today. I admire him for being able to change his policies to do what he felt best for the American People.

Personally, I would love to see Medicare for All. But it just ain't gonna happen.

Yes, yes, the Blue Dog Dems are fucking everything up. Not as badly as the Repukes did, but still pretty badly.

But it is NOT Obama's fault. It is the fault of obstructionist Republicans, ConservaDems, and conservative Independents in Progressive clothing (I'm looking at YOU, Joe LIEberman).

So, what do you want Obama to do? Finish the job that Bush started with the Unitary Executive Theory so that we no longer have a Representative Democracy but a Dictatorship?!?!?!

Focus your ire on the Congressional Dems that have betrayed us, where it belongs.
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ThomWV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 07:42 AM
Response to Reply #25
30. Well, you see, maybe I did pull it out of my ass because you've shown Obama never said it.
I must have just immagined it.

Do you understand what it means to be part of the problem? I ask because you sure as hell ain't a part of the solution.
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DisgustedInMN Donating Member (956 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 08:22 AM
Response to Reply #25
31. If I wanted to play semantics...
... I'd be a Republican.

Blah blah blah all you please..

This CRAP isn't the "change" we were promised.

Obama might as well have announced that he won't be running in '12.

And before you go there...

I was an Obama delegate, so was my wife.

I HATE being lied to.

And NO, I won't "get over it."
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freddie mertz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #25
37. Yeah. All those videos and transcripts were made by space aliens.
L. O'Donnell ended this debate last night:


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Obama lied, and those who deny it after seeing this, well, that is not my problem anymore.
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mullard12ax7 Donating Member (500 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #25
40. Let's add more troops to cannon fodder wars and let war criminals go free
Then you can buy me a star for Xmas Mr. Moneybags.
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #25
44. I want people to give the "he didn't campaign on the public option" thing a rest
You can make the point about obstructionists without pretending the man didn't campaign for what he DID campaign for.

There's no good reason to lie about this. It's insulting to people here and it serves no purpose.
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Ignis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #25
51. He ought to have read his own party's published platform, then.
See post #35.
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Bette Noir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #25
54. The first time I ever heard that it wasn't important was the day of his big health care speech.
When was that, last month? I felt shocked and betrayed.

He doesn't have to declare himself Leader in order to exercise a little leadership. We've been sold out.
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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
36. k and r
Thank you for stating the obvious!!!! And in such a great way!

Have a Happy!
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mullard12ax7 Donating Member (500 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 02:33 PM
Response to Original message
39. But, but, it's the best we can do and torture isn't important either
We can all celebrate as our criminal government has given our money to criminally ruinous health insurance pigs who profit from denying us coverage and condemning us to death.
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 03:23 PM
Response to Original message
41. Don't forget that War is Peace too.
:grr:
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #41
45. _
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 03:40 PM
Response to Original message
46. Pelosi also stipulated Public Option . . . in the last month/6 weeks ... bait & switch????
:evilgrin:
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mitchtv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 03:42 PM
Response to Original message
47. thanks Thom
I guess i just hallucinated
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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 03:51 PM
Response to Original message
48. Why do you hate America?
A Public Whation?
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Autonomy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 03:55 PM
Response to Original message
49. Speaking as someone who still supports Obama
the most insightful comment I can make is that I don't understand your (and others') discontent. I won't debate "facts" with you, because we won't agree on what they are, or what they mean, beyond:

*I would have rather had single-payer, and barring that a public option, and I am/will be VERY personally affected by the outcome of the health plan.

But I cannot comprehend the source of the emotional reaction against Obama. I can understand the anti-Lieberman sentiment, though. Comparisons of Obama and Lieberman as being "the same" appear to me to be similar to those comparisons of Gore and Bush as being "the same" in 2000: just plain 'wrong-headed'. I think others who take my position are the same, and they attempt to debate, and the two "sides" don't agree on which direction the sky is, and the emotions heat up.

So when you add that you "resent" one of the arguments in these discussions, to me it seems to solidify the impression that you are unwilling to discuss the subject rationally. I cannot foresee that any amount of justification will reverse that impression.

I could only begin to guess what is the source of the huge disconnect between two groups who both despise Republicans. All I know is that it exists. It seems, with the election of Obama, that we've reached a point where the enemy of my enemy is no longer my friend by that fact alone.

Now we have to WORK for any scrap of unity we might salvage.
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Bette Noir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #49
55. So, videotape isn't good enough for you? He lied. That's a fact.
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Autonomy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 08:53 PM
Response to Reply #55
64. I did not mention whether I thought he lied or not n/t
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SandWalker1984 Donating Member (533 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #49
62. Perfect example of how certain Republicans still supported Bush after 8 years in office
Bush could have kicked puppies every day of the week and twice on Sunday and these people will still have made excuses for his actions.

It appears there are some of them on this side of the aisle too.
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Autonomy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 08:53 PM
Response to Reply #62
65. I made no excuses for Obama
nor did I address whether I thought that was necessary.
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Hello_Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-25-09 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #49
66. Does "unity" mean unquestioningly accepting everything that comes out of this admin? eom
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Autonomy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-25-09 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #66
67. Unity means a sense that we're on the same side
on this website.
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Hello_Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-25-09 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #67
70. That's a fair point.
But people on the same side can, and do, disagree. And when people disagree, presenting valid reasons for not agreeing, and are told to shut up and go along it tends to make them disenchanted.
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winyanstaz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 03:58 PM
Response to Original message
50. I call it a lie that we were not given to think we would finally get health care...
and this mandated crap is horrible and will make a lot of families fall under the loss of everything.
Sometimes when you live close to the edge already..all it takes is missing a payment here or there or a new bill...like a mandated insurance to throw a family right out of their homes and onto the streets.
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Poll_Blind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 04:05 PM
Response to Original message
52. Oh, it wasn't your imagination. The video here (from Countdown) says it all:
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shadesofgray Donating Member (350 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 05:18 PM
Response to Original message
57. K&R. But I've learned my lesson and I'll know better in 2012.
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 06:36 PM
Response to Original message
60. K&R.
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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 07:11 PM
Response to Original message
63. Don't worry, it was written right into the 2008 Dem. Party Platform.
You have the facts on your side.
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Barack_America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-25-09 11:07 AM
Response to Original message
69. "Resent".
Yes, that's the perfect word. That is exactly how I feel.
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Marr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-25-09 11:10 AM
Response to Original message
71. There are fan club members here who apparently believe it, and
Edited on Fri Dec-25-09 11:10 AM by Marr
parrot it back on cue. Exactly the same brand of doublethink that loyal Bushies were doing for the last 8 years. It's amazing to see it happen on the other side.
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