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Two out of the ten finalists for AP Female Athlete of the Year are...Horses

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meegbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 11:43 AM
Original message
Two out of the ten finalists for AP Female Athlete of the Year are...Horses
Over at the Huffington Post Dispatch god-father Peter Daou offers his prediction that 2010 will be a horrible year for women. He writes, "Another decade closes, another decade dawns, another thing you can bet on in the years to come: women across this planet will be disrespected, beaten, abused, violated, oppressed. Simply for being born female."

About an a hour ago, this ease with which our society casually disrespects women manifested itself in a pretty shocking way. Take a look at this list of finalists for the Associated Press Female Athlete of the Year. (The numbers represent the number of votes they received.)

Serena Williams 66

Zenyatta 18

Kim Clijsters 16

Lindsey Vonn 15

Diana Taurasi 14

Maya Moore 13

Rachel Alexandra 10

Bridget Sloan 3

Jiyai Shin 2

Erin Hamlin 1

First things first, congratulations to tennis great Serena Williams for winning top honors. But upon closer inspection you may notice that two of the athletes listed are not human beings. Zenyatta and Rachel Alexandra, in fact, are horses. That's right. We live in a world in which animals are eligable to win "Female Athlete of the Year" from one of the most important global news agencies. That's some shameful stuff. And for the record, none of the male athletes of the year were anything but human. That said, the winner was NASCAR driver Jimmie Johnson. Given the AP's criteria, maybe his automobile should have won instead?

http://www.undispatch.com/two-out-ten-finalists-ap-fema...
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GodlessBiker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 11:57 AM
Response to Original message
1. Wow. Just wow.
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joeybee12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 11:58 AM
Response to Original message
2. It's pretty insulting, IMHO...they'd never give any votes to a male horse...n/t
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #2
11. Never?

It happens regularly and, yes, with male horses.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/091222/sports/ten_fe...

Horses have occasionally received support from voters for AP awards in the past. In the AP's Top 100 athletes of the century, 1973 Triple Crown winner Secretariat was No. 81, just ahead of Cal Ripken Jr.
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paulsby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #11
20. you can't inject facts into a rhetorical screed like this
it pisses people off and nobody listens.

:)

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enlightenment Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #20
29. "Regularly" "Occasionally"
Once.

Male horses are regularly . . .
Occasionally male horses are . . .
In 1973, Secretariat . . .

All within the same post. Perhaps that's why someone might feel that post was not precisely factual, even if it eventually relayed the fact. Hyperbole is a rhetorical screed, too.

:)

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paulsby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. how often are female animals
nominated? iow, it's true that this year, two extraordinary female animal athletes were nominated.

it's also true that several times in the past, extraordinary male animal athletes were nominated.

so why the outrage?

if this was a year with male animal athletes nominated, people would not be wringing their hands, would they?

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enlightenment Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. I'm not outraged at all.
I was pointing out that the person to whom you replied was guilty of the same flaw as the article - hyperbole. Obvious and intentional exaggeration. You were expressing the opinion that the poster's 'facts' would be ignored in favor of the 'rhetorical screed'. I was suggesting that people would be more likely to ignore the post because there didn't appear to be much 'fact' in evidence because of the initially exaggerated claim.

To say, first, that male horses are 'regularly' nominated - followed by stating that they are 'occasionally' nominated (which is closer to the truth) - and give evidence for the nomination of ONE horse is defeating ones own argument in order to make something sound better.

If there were three male horse nominated, why not just say 'three male horses have also been nominated to this list, so the argument that this insults female athletes is incorrect'?

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paulsby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. i stand corrected
you make a quite reasonable case and support it with facts.

when i'm wrong, i'm wrong.
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #32
38. The thing is....

You mention "nominations".

I did not refer to "nominations".

I referred to votes.

There ARE no nominations, because sports editors are presumed to know who they believed to be the athlete of the year without being provided a list.

The overall point of the OP is that Associated Press has committed some sort of outrage by counting up the names sent to them by sports editors, as if AP exerted any sort of influence or control of the names they received.

But don't let facts get in the way of a rhetorical screed.

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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #30
37. It's not a NOMINATION based vote

There are no nominations.

Sports editors send in their pick for athlete of the year.

Sports editors don't need a nomination list for whom they consider the athlete of the year.
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paulsby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #37
46. you are correct
my use of the word nomination wasn't correct.
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #29
41. I used "regularly"... The linked quote used "occasionally"

See the difference?

Obviously, with this year's vote, it has become more "regular" than it "occasionally" has been in the past.

But I wasn't going to change the quote.
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #11
44. Well, it doesn't say "human" female athlete of the year.
:wtf:

That's pretty unreal.
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Arkansas Granny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 12:00 PM
Response to Original message
3. This just doesn't seem right. FWIW, however,
Secretariat was named Athlete of the Year in 1973. That's apparently the only time an animal has won that honor.
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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 12:02 PM
Response to Original message
4. has a male horse ever made the top ten?
ever. secretariat? or?
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CBR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 12:02 PM
Response to Original message
5. I hear ya but I have a soft spot for both of these horses...
Edited on Wed Dec-23-09 12:08 PM by CBR
they are truly amazing. Secretariat did win athlete of the year from Sports Illustrated in 1973.

On edit: Smarty Jones received votes in 2004 as well.
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tonysam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. Secretariat DIDN'T win "Sportsman of the Year" in the most egregious oversight
Edited on Wed Dec-23-09 12:15 PM by tonysam
in the magazine's history. Race car driver Jackie Stewart won it in 1973 because Stewart retired from auto racing at the peak of his game.

Very few people outside of the auto racing world even remember who Jackie Stewart was, but Secretariat remains revered among millions and millions of horse racing fans and the public as the greatest racehorse of all time.

Sport magazine did name Secretariat "man of the year" or whatever their award was for 1973.

Zenyatta probably deserves this award; she most likely will win Horse of the Year for having been undefeated in her career. She won the Breeders' Cup Classic against the top male horses in the country--in her first start with male horses--the only female to do so.
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Secretariat beat Cal Ripken Jr. in AP's top 100 list
Edited on Wed Dec-23-09 12:17 PM by jberryhill

Oddly, I did find a reference to Secretariat winning in 1973, but that may have been another publication.

I'm guessing folks don't realize that AP doesn't set a slate of candidates, but receives blind votes from sports publications.

Barbaro, Smarty Jones, and Secretariat have all drawn votes in the AP list.
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tonysam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. AP isn't Sports Illustrated
There were many angry letters over SI's choice.

There was NO contest who should have won that year.
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Gotcha, but look at AP's top 100 of the century list /nt
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tonysam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. I know. Also ESPN, too.
Hell, Secretariat should have been "athlete of the century" as far as I am concerned. He was the standard by which all other racehorses are judged.

Hell's bells, no horse has even broken his records in the Kentucky Derby or Belmont after 36 years, and he also set the record for the Preakness but for a clock malfunction.
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CBR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #10
17. tonysam, thanks -- you are correct. I admit to never having heard
of Jackie Stewart. I think Secretariat was on the list of Athletes of the Century.

I love watching Zenyatta -- I youtube her vids all of the time and the Breeders Cup race was stellar.
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tonysam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. That's my point. Jackie Stewart has done commentary
for auto racing and he's quite admired in his field, but he simply didn't deserve SI's award. Another year, perhaps. But not THAT year.
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CBR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #18
25. I have only recently begun watching horse racing...
My fave vids at this time (the ones I have watched about 25 times each) are:

Rags to Riches vs. Curlin in Belmont
Secretariat in Belmont
Zenyatta in 2009 Breeders

Any other recommendations?

I was heartbroken when Smarty Jones lost the Belmont. Cannot bring myself to watch that race.
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tonysam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. Mary Lou Whitney, who owned winner Birdstone,
Edited on Wed Dec-23-09 12:55 PM by tonysam
was so, so sick over her horse winning the race. It was comical to watch her almost in tears in the winner's circle.

Other races to watch:

1978 Belmont
1998 Belmont
1997 Belmont
1989 Preakness
1993 Breeders' Cup Classic
1973 Marlboro Invitational
1976 Marlboro
1962 Travers
1979 Belmont--Ron Franklin screws up a surefire victory for Spectacular Bid, who only lost once more in his career (to Affirmed in the Jockey Club Gold Cup in 1979) and went on to a sensational undefeated season in 1980
1988 Breeders' Cup Distaff
2003 Breeders' Cup Turf--a dead heat--the only one I have ever seen in all of the races I have watched on television since 1961
1978 Jockey Club Gold Cup

These are just a few of the all-time great races
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #28
39. We do not mention "Birdstone" in my house....

I was coming into a winning Pick-Four when that happened.

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Gwendolyn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #10
22. Are you kidding? "It's a grrrate dey forr motahcarr rrracin, and eye'm Jackie Stewairrt"

Lots of us non fans know who he was! :P
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tonysam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. Most people don't. Sorry.
And he didn't deserve SI's "Sportsman of the Year" in 1973.

End of story.
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tonysam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #26
31. That wasn't the first time SI gave Secretariat the shaft
Edited on Wed Dec-23-09 12:46 PM by tonysam
He also didn't make the cover of the magazine the week following his sensational Kentucky Derby win. He won it by running each quarter faster than the previous one, an unheard of feat, and set a track record for a mile-and-a-quarter for this race, which still stands.

Despite this and a wonderful photograph on the inside of this issue of a head-on shot of his coming down the stretch, who gets to be on the cover? Mark and Suzi Spitz because they had announced their engagement.
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frylock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #10
48. it's a FUCKING horse!!
i'm sorry, but Jackie Stewart was very popular at the time, even among non-race fans, and deserved the award despite how revered Secretariat may have been among millions and milions of "horse racing fans." i'm sorry if you feel that the horse was robbed. i'm sure he got over it.
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tonysam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #48
51. Were you even ALIVE then?
Edited on Wed Dec-23-09 05:29 PM by tonysam
Stewart got it only because he retired, not because of what he did. He didn't deserve SI's award, and I'll bet he'd agree with me.

Stewart NEVER had the popularity Secretariat did. Don't try to revise history.

Secretariat was a national ICON, right up there with Elvis.

Few or no sports figures in history had the buildup of Secretariat in the weeks leading up to the Belmont Stakes. He was on the cover of SI, Time, and Newsweek, all the same week, and these issues are big collectors' items today, especially Newsweek's, and it was nonstop coverage. And believe me, he lived up to the hype, unlike certain politicians of this era.

This big red horse managed to get people's minds off of the problems with Watergate and Vietnam. In fact, Secretariat helped sports in general.

The late, great Pete Axthelm, Newsweek, June 11, 1973, the issue before Secretariat destroyed the competition in the 1973 Belmont Stakes:

The thoroughbreds were shadowy, almost indistinguishable figures in the morning mist as they galloped around Belmont Park's sweeping clubhouse turn, their nostrils flaring and snorting, their hooves slapping rhymically against the wet sand of the racetrack. Along the outer rail, a knot of veteran trainers watched the workouts, clicking stopwatches and speaking laconically. Then, suddenly the conversation ceased and the morning routing was momentarily suspended, all eyes drawn to the proud, animated chestnut colt that was striding onto the track. "The big horse," someone said. Needless words: no horseman has to be reminded when he is in the commanding presence of a racehorse as rare and brilliant as Secretariat.

Secretariat generates a crackling tension and excitement wherever he goes. Even in the kind of gray weather that shrouds lesser animals in anonymity, Secretariat's muscular build identifies him immediately; his gleaming reddish coat is a banner of health and rippling power. Magnificent enough at rest, he becomes even more prepossessing as he glides smoothly around the track; and when he accelerates to the pace that has already destroyed his rivals in the Kentucky Derby and Preakness, he produces a breathtaking explosion that leaves novices and hardened horsemen alike convinced that, for one of those moments that seldom occur in any sport, they have witnessed genuine greatness.


The 1973 Belmont Stakes, announced by Chic Anderson, still chilling after all these years:

link



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frylock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #51
60. i was born in '65..
Edited on Wed Dec-23-09 07:35 PM by frylock
now, do you know WHY Stewart retired? i stand by my statement; it's a HORSE.

on edit: i'm not trying to diminish the accomplishments of Secretariat, or the horses trainer. i'm just saying that it's kind of ridiculous to place animals in the same category as human athletes. just my OSHO. peace.
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #48
56. Indeed - They Didn't Put Jackie Stewart Out To Stud When He Retired, Either /nt
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frylock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #56
61. ummmm..
okay..?
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #61
66. Then again, maybe he was a gelding /nt
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MrCoffee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #5
59. Zenyatta's run at the BC Classic was THE athletic performance of the year
No question. I'd vote for her.
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NoPasaran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 12:04 PM
Response to Original message
6. I think the progressive term is "Equine American"
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #6
19. never heard a Progressive say such a thing
Edited on Wed Dec-23-09 12:25 PM by fascisthunter
but I have read a conservative use that label, right here on DU.
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NoPasaran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. Well, bless your heart!
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Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #21
27. That, too. -nt
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #27
33. lol
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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 12:04 PM
Response to Original message
7. Yes....I want the car
named Athlete of the Year. I'll write AP and tell them.

Not just one horse, but TWO! Yippee!

My head hurts.

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tonysam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #7
23. Racehorses ARE athletes, I hate to tell you that
Edited on Wed Dec-23-09 12:31 PM by tonysam
The jockeys don't do all of the work.

To say horses are not athletes would be the same thing as saying basketball or football players aren't athletes because they play on a team.

Individual sports aren't the only sports having athletes.
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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #23
43. If you hate to tell me,
then don't. Why not have TOP TEN Fillies? And stop comparing the 2 footed to the 4 footed.

You're just looking for a fight. Go shadow box....and don't hurt yourself.

Ouch.
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tonysam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #43
52. I think you are. You don't know what you are talking about.
n/t
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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #52
63. The nt goes in the subject line....nt
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Democrats_win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 12:10 PM
Response to Original message
8. What do you expect? AP has proven that they are a bunch of jackasses!
They named Tiger, the Serial Adulterer, athlete of the decade. Just think, he chose not to participate in his sport. That is thee worst thing an athlete can do given how many athletes would love to participate but can't because of injury or age.

AP: jackasses of the year!
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paulsby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #8
24. what does his being an adulterer have to do with his ATHLETIC performance
i can think of no other athlete as dominant under high pressure as tiger. the guy deserves athlete of the decade.

who is better?

i'm a huge kelly slater fan, but tiger clearly takes it
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
9. WRONG - Barbaro, Smarty Jones, and Secretariat - Secretariat WON in 1973

"Given the AP's criteria"

The AP doesn't set any criteria.

It receives votes from member sports editors, but doesn't provide a list of "candidates".

In the past, Barbaro and Smarty Jones HAVE drawn votes for male athlete of the year.

Also, Secretariat won Athlete of the Year for 1973.

http://thoroughbred-racing.suite101.com/article.cfm/197...

At three, he was king, as he won the 1973 American Triple Crown in three inspired, astonishing races. His horsey good looks were featured on three national magazine covers. He was voted Male Athlete of the Year.

Read more at Suite101: 1973 Kentucky Derby: All Big Red: Secretariat's Run for the Roses Was the Fastest Ever Recorded http://thoroughbred-racing.suite101.com/article.cfm/197...
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City Lights Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
13. Consider the source. The AP puts the ASS in associated press.
Fuck them, up, down, and sideways.

:nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke:
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Brickbat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #13
35. As we in the business say, "You can't spell crap without AP."
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 01:17 PM
Response to Original message
36. I actually don't have a problem with the horses being named. They train incredibly hard and
Edited on Wed Dec-23-09 01:17 PM by GreenPartyVoter
are in amazing shape and very good at what they do. The only difference between them and human athletes is the sentience factor. FWIW I think it's nice to see animals treated as worthy and special creatures. (By the list. There are many animal athletes who are abused, though. :()

Now if they had been the _only_ females on the list or if they had tried to name some Nascar vehicles as top athletes, that I would have opposed.
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Thickasabrick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 02:36 PM
Response to Original message
40. What about Caster Mokgadi Semenya? After all she went through
not even a mention? A horse tops what she has accomplished?

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mullard12ax7 Donating Member (500 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 02:39 PM
Response to Original message
42. AP stands for All Propaganda, it's a worthless repuke rag
It's owned and run by lying ass repukes, like the WSJ is. WSJ stands for Worthless Stupid Junk.
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 03:31 PM
Response to Original message
45. If we are going to consider horses as athletes
We should also consider sled dogs in the Iditarod, camels in camel racing, greyhounds at the dog track...

Sure, horses are attractive and they train hard, but it's not as if they have a say in the matter. Athletes do (or should).
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frylock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #45
49. thx..
seems like a no-brainer to me. but i'm not a big horse race fan, so wtf do i know.
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tonysam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #49
55. It is only a no-brainer to those people who don't know shit what they are talking about.
n/t
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tonysam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #45
53. They are. Sorry. Jockeys don't do it alone.
By that logic, Lance Armstrong is not an athlete because he had help on his cycling teams in order to win. Neither does any other athlete who participates in team sports.
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #53
67. Athletes can be members of teams
Nobody said that they couldn't. That's not the point in dispute. The question is, can an athlete be non-human?

What would you think if the Academy Award for Best Actor went to Lassie or Benji the dog?
The Nobel Peace Prize to an actual dove?
The Nobel Prize in Medicine to the lab rats?

It doesn't make sense to include humans and animals in the same set known as athletes. It is a category error. Racehorses are bred to run. They don't commit themselves to it by choice as a human athlete must.

By the way, the first dozen or so definitions of the word athlete that I found on the web or in my printed dictionaries start all with the phrase "a person".

For what its worth, I have been to the racetrack many times in my life and have bet on lots of horses. I appreciate thoroughbreds for what they are - magnificent animals but not athletes in any reasonable sense of the term.
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jakefrep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 04:13 PM
Response to Original message
47. This is a problem?
:shrug:

Sorry, I don't get the outrage.
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Blasphemer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 04:33 PM
Response to Original message
50. I've always questioned the inclusion of racehorses in such lists but it's been done before... nt
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frylock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #50
62. same here..
i always considered it somewhat of a novelty, but wtf do i know.
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Wardoc Donating Member (204 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 05:05 PM
Response to Original message
54. I always thought it was weird when they tried to label horses as athletes. Going intraspecies...
kind of defeats the whole purpose. By that kind of criteria no human is ever going to be the best, well, anything.
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #54
57. Pole Vault?

I think we've got most other species beat at pole vault.

That, and ice dancing.

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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 05:48 PM
Response to Original message
58. Don't be silly. Everyone knows that cars (and boats) are always "she"
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TK421 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #58
64. This will be one of those "remember when" threads brought up in the Lounge
in the near future, of course
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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 08:55 PM
Response to Original message
65. congrats to williams, she deserves the honor -- perhaps johnson does as well, i dunno
as for those who equate women and horses, what can i say? we thought the world would be further along by now, but for most of us, it is no different than it was in 1978, except when we're dumped for destroying our bodies giving birth to some man's brats, we're no longer entitled to alimony

equal pay? equal opportunity? not for us! we're not human beings with souls, we're animals admired for our youth and beauty...we are the equivalent of a mare

it makes me sad


i don't know enough (anything) abt auto racing to comment on johnson's award, so i'll just say congrats to him, at least he was competing against living breathing adult males
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eppur_se_muova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 02:29 AM
Response to Original message
68. Hey, folks -- it's only SPORTS. It's not like it was anything important.
:hide:

If women were losing Nobel Prizes to horses, I'd understand the outrage.
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