What Is The Maximum Salary You Think A Physician Should Earn?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

Poll question: What Is The Maximum Salary You Think A Physician Should Earn?

[WeDidIt]

1. What the market will bear.

I am an unashamed capitalist.

[elocs]

6. Amen to that. You get paid however much you can.

I have been a union member and have had people say at the time I was being paid too much. Well, too bad, so sad because nobody was holding a gun to the employer's head. They paid us our agreed wage and still made a good profit.

[blondeatlast]

21. I'll plus one on that--we all deserve unions, IMHO. nt

[baldguy]

10. The market currently bears "consultation fees" of up to $1000/hr or more.

And $200 for one dose of aspirin.

Such a market is unsustainable & actually harms a significant portion of the patient population. Unabashed capitalism got us into the mess we're in.

[sendero]

14. Monopolies..

... ruin markets and health care is a monopoly. Nobody does price shopping when they are injured in a car wreck or needing emergency surgery.

This aspect of our health care system is what is breaking its back. Specialists, drug makers and device makers basically name their price.

That is not capitalism.

[izquierdista]

17. There is no "market"

Shut your shameful smug yap long enough to learn what the basic axioms of capitalism and the "free market" are.

A "free market" requires low barriers to entry; doctors have to go through 4 years of medical school, internship, residency, and exams to enter this market. Foreign doctors may have as much education and knowledge, but find additional barriers to practice in front of them.

A "free market" postulates the same information available to buyers and sellers alike. During all that schooling, the sellers of medical services probably get far more information than the buyer who gets his medical information from ads on the nightly news.

A "free market" postulates that buyer is able to negotiate with seller and make comparisons to reach an agreeable price. A buyer who is unconscious and transported to the nearest ER is in no condition to negotiate the price of his heart attack.

I shouldn't be so hard on you for having so much faith in capitalism; you probably also believe that you have an invisible sky friend who answers your prayers too.

[WeDidIt]

29. There IS a market

Shut your shameful yap long enough to learn what the basic axioms of capitalism and the free market are.

There is a demand for good doctors. The better the doctor in a specific field, the higher the demand for that doctor's services, thus that doctor's price increases.

It's all supply and demand.

[izquierdista]

33. It ain't a "free" one though

There is plenty of supply of knowledge out there, but it seems you have no demand for it. Go back to baying at the moon with your teabag buddies.

[DrDan]

2. why would there be a limit?

supply/demand will take care of it - and produce equilibrium.

As long as salaries are high, med schools will continue to draw the best and brightest. And isn't that a good thing?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

3. Hence The Unlimited Option

~

[DrDan]

8. my choice

[vadawg]

4. yup, i would rather the best become doctors rather than the guy who would otherwise clean drains

i want a colonoscopy not a rotorrooter :) let the market pay as much as the market will bear...

[Electric Monk]

5. Same cap as lawyers get

and might as well give teachers the same too, while we're at it :)

[DBoon]

9. no comparison!

with the possible exception of a criminal defense attorney on a capital case, nobody dies due to poor lawyering

[elocs]

23. There are people in this country who actually believe that teachers are overpaid.

I don't think we pay them enough.

[DBoon]

7. When you need life-saving emergency care

you start emptying your bank account

[GreenArrow]

11. I tend to hold a dim opinion

of those who profit off of other's misery. One to 200,000 dollars ought to be more than adequate.

[hayu_lol]

12. I tend to think that physicians should not have caps on earnings...

Think of how many years of education and personal denial most doctors endure whilst learning their craft. Add specialty training and costs to them are astronomical plus the additional years of training.

Lawyers not so much so. Shorter period of training before starting to practice.

Teachers: Costs of teacher ed today is going through the roof when you consider that starting earnings of $28K or so barely is enough to pay for the education and allow for a personal life.

No, Doctors should not have caps on income.

[n2doc]

13. Unlimited. But there should be more doctors

We really need a national program to produce general practitioners, not specialists. We should provide free tuition for those willing to go into the field as this. And we should push for a bigger pipeline for undergrads who want to choose this profession. Right now there are a lot of roadblocks to creating a sufficient base of medical professionals.

[havocmom]

25. +1

I have good insurance, but can't get even mediocre health care. Reason: not enough practitioners. Medical care has turned in to McMedicine; run 'em through fast, no real care.

[meow2u3]

15. I say about 100-150 grand a year--for good doctors

Docs have skills and knowledge about human functions for which they have studied for years, costing them a pretty penny. I have no problem with good, compentent doctors earning a good living.

The trouble is, doctors are slaves to the insurance industry, being compelled to pay at least 25-50K a year for malpractice insurance, whose premiums are not priced according to the level of their competence. Worse yet, the good doctors are punished for the actions of the bad ones; every time a malpractice suit is filed against a bad doctor, they jack up the rates for the good ones, too.

The real medical malpractice reform we should have is at the insurance end of it. They should price the premiums much like auto insurance: reward the good doctors by lowering their rates each year they don't file a claim and/or are not sued; jack up the rates for the incompetent or negligent docs; and put the egregiously bad doctors in a high-premium high-risk pool.

[JohnnyBoots]

16. Unlimited. Med School and Residency = no sleep and putting your life on hold for 10 years

What other job makes you do that besides military? Our Soldiers should be paid more too.

[chimpyisstillsatan]

42. Try doing doctoral level biomedical research

Only TEN years? Pussies. Try 25 on for size!

Age 22-28 Ph.D.= 6 years on avg. to completion $21 K per annum salary at best. Avg workweek 60-80 hours.
Age 28-34 Post-Doctoral fellowships (3-5 years on average, starting at $30K/year). Avg workweek 60-80 hours.
Age 34-42 Research assistant professor (more and more common fate for researchers. No tenure track, salary $55K). Avg workweek 60-80 hours.
Assistant professor tenure track (rarely available positions- 5-7 years before most are denied tenure, salary about $80K). Avg workweek 60-80 hours.

The average age of a biomedical scientist when they get their first "full time" job? 41 years old. Average salary in that job $85,000. Average student loan debt incurred? $35-50,000. Compare that to the salary of a 26 year old medical resident (~$50K/year). Cry me a fucking river.

I'm 45 and still have $23K in student loan debt to service. I entered undergrad in 1982. I still don't own a house. My buds who went to Med school paid their $150K off in 2-3 years. None of them were eating rent-is-due Ramen Noodles into their mid 30's like me.

Is it any wonder all our young scientists come from overseas now? You'd have to be a fucking idiot to enter my profession today.

[JohnnyBoots]

44. You shoulda been a plumber.....

I have a buddy in a similar straights, only he is Physics not BMR.

[jmowreader]

18. I can't support limiting a doctor's salary

This isn't a job, it's a life. One you have to start planning for when you're...oh, maybe ten years old.

You have to get A's in every math course AND every science course your school offers, and your school needs to have a full math and science department. There are smaller high schools out there that don't offer shit like calculus and physics--hence, no doctors will ever come out of those schools.

Assuming you graduate high school with at least a 4.0GPA, plus be a three-sport athlete, plus have an after-school job and volunteer for everything that comes along, you MIGHT get a chance to take pre-med. If you do really well in it, you might get a chance to go to med school, and assuming you pass it plus go through residency you can then hang out your shingle.

Once you do that, you're only responsible for keeping people alive. No, I don't support limiting their salaries.

[east texas lib]

19. There should be no salary cap on physicians.

Unless the desired outcome is less physicians. Who wants that?:think:

[TreasonousBastard]

20. This whole payrol thing drives me crazy. Out here cops make...

around $100,000 and dockworkers in Port Newark make two to three times that. and don't get me started on plumbers, electricians, real estate agents...

And the national median income for a "family practice" doctor is around $150,000. I hope it's more around here, but probably not a lot more.

Nobody makes enough, but everyone else says they make too much. Even the unemployed and homeless have been accused of being "rich" and undeserving.

Oh, and those CEOs and Wall Street operators everyone likes to complain about...

Apparently, the rule is simple-- if you make more than me it's too much. If you make a LOT more than me, you are the face of scumsucking evil and must be brought down to my level.

[HillbillyBob]

26. In Right to work(what a euphemism) States

If you are an electrician apprentice you make mininum wage..that is if the boss can't figure away of screwing you out of at least some of it. Electrician Mechanice about 2$ over minimum and full card carrying..about 12$ an hr. Admitedly that is from about 10 yrs ago as I am retired/disabled and the bastards fire you and you are SOL if you get hurt on the job like I did.
A bunch 'offer' insurance, but lay you off on the 89th day of the 90 required to get it or cut your hours and mark you as part time or even cut your hrs on paper to get out of paying over time.
If it were just one or two that would be one thing, but when I lived in Montgomery Al All the contractors did stuff like this to the general worker, only certain employees were not screwed over.

Drs go to school a long time sure. but I think 200,000 is very high limit to set but a good dr would earn it. Not just padding it by ordering a bunch of unnecessary tests.

[mainer]

37. Doctors don't make money by ordering tests

A doctor orders an Xray. He doesn't get a cut out of that Xray, unless he owns the machine. The money paid for that test goes to the hospital and the radiologist.
Or a doctor orders a blood test. The patient goes to the hospital or lab to get the test -- the doctor doesn't get a cut out of that test, unless he owns the pathology lab.

Most doctors order tests because they think they're necessary or don't want to miss something. I don't know why you'd think doctors get a cut out of the tests.

[havocmom]

22. Salary? Ah, there's the rub. Corporate clinics where doctors are just employees

Now, are we talking employee doctors or self-employed businessmen doctors?

Frankly, the corporatization of medical care is probably one reason for sky-rocketing cost. Just like big insurance, big medicine throws on more layers that have to be paid for, up to and including the suites where dwells the suckers of money known as top corporate management. They do nada to provide health care and much sucking of $$.

[totodeinhere]

24. We have a shortage of physicians as it is.

If we cap their salaries that would just make it worse. They have to have some of incentive to go the medical school and become doctors. And they have to know that at some point they will have enough income to pay off their student loans.

[RB TexLa]

28. unlimited visas for doctors and unlimited medical school slots will get rid of the shortage

and slash costs on doctors. You'll see them advertising on television as much as lawyers do now.

[totodeinhere]

34. There isn't enough capacity at medical schools for unlimited slots.

And there isn't enough faculty either.

[RB TexLa]

39. worldwide there is.

[LWolf]

27. Wrong question.

It should be:

What is the maximum amount housing, transportation, food, health care, clothing, and education should cost?

When you have that, you can determine a minimum living wage.

When you have a living minimum wage, you can determine the maximum amount any person or profession should exceed it.

If we had universal free public pre-school through trade school and college, doctors, and others whose education takes a big investment of time and money, wouldn't have to pay back student loans, or be wealthy to begin with. That has to be factored into "how much should ___________ make?" as well.

[havocmom]

40. BINGO!

[Lyric]

30. Their annual salary should not exceed the entire amount

that their college degrees and training cost them, plus $25k. Add it up, and that's their cap. Then pass a law at the same time forbidding universities from raising tuition for those degrees beyond what inflation requires.

[chimpyisstillsatan]

41. I think you're on the right track

Some multiple of the cost of their education would be a good place to start for MD's receiving Federal funds of any kind or training in an organization that does (i.e., all US medical schools). Perhaps a cap like this could be more generous for people who worked in underserved geographical areas or subspecialties? That way we might not have such a surplus of golfing dermatologists and collagen-implanting cosmetic surgeons.

Another option would be to do like I had to do after accepting NIH training money, force funding recipients to do science-related teaching or work for an equal number of years as spent in training. Lift any salary cap after that time period passes, and at least you get full use of the sharpest, most recently trained physicians.

[salguine]

31. You don't need those decimal points in there. It's making things confusing because

they don't fit in the space. Since they're all .00 anyway, why have them?

[WT Fuheck]

32. I think all income over $400,000 (including stock options and other inducements)

should be taxed at 100%.


(Actually, I think the maximum wage should be calculated as a multiple of the minimum wage, but that idea is too progressive for this board.)

[galledgoblin]

43. I might choose a slightly higher limit, but I agree. (n/t)

[FarCenter]

35. Whatever Oprah makes

At least the physicians are doing something useful.

[Pharlo]

36. Based upon the options here,

Unlimited. It doesn't factor into the equation the COST of medical school, internships and residency, malpractice insurance, and lost wages during the 10 years or so they were learning their discipline.

When you offer FREE medical school to those who can get into an accredited medical program, offer some sort of monetary compensation for the slave labor referred to as 'interns', and cap malpractice insurance premiums, THEN, you can come back and ask me what their salaries should be capped at.

Had you even bothered to put a percentage of compensation ABOVE 'necessary costs incurred in preparing for and practicing as a physician' I would have found a cap palatable. But, to expect someone to put their life on hold for 10 plus years pursuing a degree, start their wage earning careers at late 20's to possible early 40's and be facing damn near a million in debt and then limit their wages to $100,000 a year? $400,000 a year? It's unreasonable. They wouldn't be making enough to pay back student loans, much less cover living expenses.

Trust me, your unrealistic 'physician's salary caps' IN NO WAY compensates anyone enough to put their life on hold in pursuit of a medical degree when they can become a RN with a much shorter investment of time and effort.

[area51]

38. Not sure I understand the reason behind this poll.

Doctors' salaries aren't the reason why the U.S. medical system is in shambles; it's due to the mafiosi for-profit insurance agencies.

[Sebastian Doyle]

45. Should have been a poll about Insurance corporation CEO's

That would have been more relevant to the current pathetic joke of a bill.

[reformist]

46. Wrong Question.

We should ask, what should the top income-tax bracket be, and starting where? I say bring back the old 1954 top tax rate of 91%.