Are the unemployed forced to buy health insurance? ....and other questions

[rollingrock]

questions about the mandate:

1. does it force you to buy health insurance even if you are unemployed? how could you possibly do that if you have no income?

2. what if you suddenly get laid off or somehow lose your job? will the mandate still apply or no?

3. at what age does the mandate kick in?

4. what happens if they fine you for not buying health insurance and you don't pay the fine? do you go to jail? what is the penalty?

5. what if for example, you are a college student working only part-time or on minimum wage? how could someone in that position possibly afford to buy private health insurance? I guess they could have qualified to take the public option, but that is apparently no longer the case because the PO was killed.





...this forced mandate business seems just absurd.

[L0oniX]

1. Do you have to sell your house if you can't afford to buy health insurance?

Will they put a lean on your home if you don't buy health insurance or not pay the fine for not having health insurance?

[kestrel91316]

80. Well, let's put it this way - the insurance is gonna be so expensive,

the average person WILL have to sell their home to pay their medical insurance premiums PLUS their copays PLUS their deductible PLUS all medical bills for those pre-existing conditions that they don't have to cover for many years.

The good thing is, real estate is gonna stay cheap for a LONG time, for those who have plenty of money to buy it. Medical expenses will cause the market to be flooded with unaffordable homes.

[HereSince1628]

2. One thing I do have faith in, is that these answers are all in the bill

and when the executive's pen strikes the page, an entire new industry within the legal field will be established to deal with the consequences. It will be much like legal practices specializing in tax-law.

[twitomy]

4. Yay!!! And then the President can take credit for

all the new jobs he's created becasue of the "new industry"

This mandate is unconstitutional. Forcing a private citizen to buy a private product. Bullshit! And dont try the auto insurance comparison because no one is forced to own a car, and driving is not a right. I hope this gets challenged.

[tonysam]

12. People pretty much have to have a car, sorry. Public transportation is a JOKE

in almost all areas of the United States. You have to have a car to have a job, and you have to have a job in order to eat and pay bills. We are talking about mandated INSURANCE, so the comparison applies.

[enlightenment]

22. Piffle.

I live in Las Vegas, which has some of the worst public transport around. Many, many people who cannot afford to drive STILL use the crappy public transportation because they have no choice. I'm sure they might like to have another option, but they cannot afford a vehicle. No one forces them to have a vehicle that they cannot afford to own.

In many of the larger cities, many people choose not to own a vehicle because they can get by very well without one. I know a number of mature adults who don't even know HOW to drive. No one forces them to have a vehicle they do not want to own.

Whether by economic circumstance or personal choice, none of these people own a vehicle, so they do not need to buy vehicle insurance.

They all have bodies, however, and will have to have health insurance under this mandate.

Your argument is as leaky as a sieve - the comparison is apples and oranges.

[Sapphocrat]

27. Oh, bullshit.

Ever hear of a little place called New York City? If you own a car there, you are insane.

For the record, I do not use a car for work. I live in California, which has no public transportation to speak of. I do just fine, thanks.

In any case, the comparison does NOT apply. You do not have the "right" to a car. Driving is a privilege. Insurance is one price of that privilege.

You cannot opt out of "driving" a human body, save for suicide.

Give it up and try to invent something more imaginative than this stupid, tired, bullshit non-argument. Everybody (except the last few holdouts still using it) is sick to death of hearing it, and sick to death of smacking it down.

[twitomy]

84. Whats sad is the President used this same auto insurance argument.

and he is supposed to be a "Constitutional Scholar":eyes:

This constitutional issue was brought up to Gibbs one time and he just blew it off.

I would be very surprsied if the conservative SC didnt strike this part down.

Many conservatives and many progressives both have problems with this, which makes me think

this is an obvious constitutional issue.

[HuckleB]

28. So you're saying that the government built road system mandated the purchase of automobiles.

Now where's the outrage over that?

[flyarm]

50. driving in almost every state is considered a 'PRIVILEGE" NOT A RIGHT! EOM

[DireStrike]

56. Cars are a luxury.

[Tuvok Obama]

68. hehehehehe

Yes, I have to have a car, but I don't because I can't afford one. (My last car died in 2004 and I donated its remains to the Polly Klaas Foundation.) For me, it comes down to either affording a car, or affording a roof over my head. I choose to walk in the rain and live under a roof.

Also, the Supreme Court of my state has ruled that driving is a privilege, not a right.

I can't afford a car, and I don't have an inalienable right to drive one in my state. The comparison most definitely does not apply.

[kestrel91316]

81. I am doing just fine in LOS ANGELES without a car this fall.

It's a minor inconvenience when it rains (which is about a dozen days a year, lol). Riding the bus or a bike, or walking, is perfectly doable.

[girl gone mad]

102. I lived for several years without a car.

I have many friends who do not have cars. Even in places with poor public transportation. It's entirely possible to choose to live car-free in America, and it's even possible to thrive without a car (one of my carless pals in pretty well off).

[Quantess]

109. I have 2 friends over age 40 who have never even had a drivers license!

I myself went several years without owning a car.

[rollingrock]

5. The private prison industry should get a big boost as well

just think of all the new jobs for construction workers, prison guards, bail bondsman, parole officers, etc. that will be created!

[MineralMan]

3. The way things work now, more or less,

is that:

1. If your income falls below a threshold, you qualify for your state-subsidized Medicaid program. That depends a lot on how your state does things. I don't think that changes with this bill, but is somewhat expanded.

2. The sudden layoff initiates the whole Cobra thing. I believe that subsidies in this bill will bring the cost down to something you can afford, but I'm not sure. If the layoff is long, then Medicaid or other programs kick in.

3. I don't know about this one.

4. The penalties come as part of your income tax when you do your income taxes, as far as I know. There is not jail involved. If you don't file your taxes, you could be prosecuted. If you have no money, you aren't going to jail, any more than people who have no money go to jail now. Prison seems a very, very remote possibility.

5. Impoverished college students already have no insurance. That will not change, I suppose. However, subsidized insurance should be available, based on the low income of the student. The timing of that is down the road a little. College kids' insurance premiums are pretty low, generally, and some colleges and universities offer a plan to their students. Individual cases will have individual solutions or problems.

[aquart]

6. The problem is there are delays between "kicking in".

And people are going to die.

[gateley]

7. Yes. Thanks for the help, Washington. nt

[MineralMan]

8. Yes, there are delays. It's definitely true.

I have no answers for that. It happens now. I hope it will happen less with whatever gets passed.

I hope we'll be able to nominate and elect better people for Congress. That's the long-term solution. In the short term, people are dying now. If fewer people die, that will be good. If things go on as they are, and no bill is passed, people will die. I'd like fewer people to die.

[HuckleB]

14. It would be that way with any plan.

Oh, and we have another problem: We don't have enough docs, nurses and associated health providers for those who have insurance now.

[aquart]

83. No. It wouldn't be that way with single payer.

Because employment wouldn't matter. Income wouldn't matter.

[treestar]

66. Well kill the bill then

So even more people die.

I don't get the delays either, presumably there is a reason.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

15. I thought that to qualify for Medicaid a person had to have almost no assets.

So, if you were unemployed, but still had significant assets, I think yes, you would still be supposed to buy a mandated plan or whittle away your assets, buying the plan you can't afford, until Mirabile Dictu, you qualify for Medicaid. What a great plan!

[HuckleB]

Not if you're qualifying for it based on disability.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

There are lots of prior condition/chronic illnesses that will not get

you declared "disabled" - like diabetes for one and there are countless others. People with chronic prior conditions look like they have been hung out to dry for 4 years in the Senate bill. That is a complete and total disgrace.

[HuckleB]

34. I don't buy it.

This bill doesn't make it worse than it is now.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

53. Well I thought a MAJOR reason for reformin the first place was to cover

the uninsured with prior conditions with no coverage. I hear/read that the Senate bill will cover children with prior conditions - well what about their parents with prior conditions? I always call bills that cover children but not adults Healthy Orphan bills - the kids get care but their parents die off.

To say that letting adults without coverage and with prior conditions wither on the vine and possibly die for 4 years "isn't worse than what it is now" is just bizarre. It IS worse, because now they are dying AFTER our "reform" effort. Why don't we just deliver vats of hemlock to their houses? The message is clear.

[Fumesucker]

73. You wouldn't need a vat of hemlock..

A cup or two should do it..

A penny saved is a penny earned. :evilgrin:

[Jamastiene]

86. Do you happen to know the exact amount of cups I'll need of

that? I really don't want to fuck this up.

[rollingrock]

74. And simply being unemployed doesn't qualify you for Medicaid

you have to belong to a certain group to be eligible for it. income is only one requirement.

ie: you have to be handicapped or have a special medical condition; you are a pregnant woman or woman with young kids, etc. having low income alone doesn't qualify for Medicaid. it is a very limited program. most low income earners don't qualify for it because they're not in one of those groups.

[Jamastiene]

87. That's right.

You wouldn't believe how many people right here on this site believe that just being poor will qualify you for Medicaid. That's just not true.

[girl gone mad]

104. Awful.

This plan is guaranteed to increase the rate of poverty.

[rollingrock]

70. But currently

Simply being unemployed or getting laid off doesn't qualify you for Medicaid.

you have to be a member of a certain group to get Medicaid. for example, you are handicapped or have some special medical condition, you are a pregnant woman or a woman with young kids, etc. so the Medicaid program is extremely limited. income level is only on requirement. the eligibility requirements varies by state but that's basically how it works.

so are you saying Medicaid will be expanded to cover the unemployed under this bill?

[zalinda]

77. In order to qualify for Medicaid

at least in New York, you have to be POOR. You are not allowed to have assets. If you have a 401K, you could be disqualified. If you own a vehicle worth more than a few thousand dollars, you could be disqualified. If you have any savings over $2000 or $3000 you will be disqualified. When you apply, not only do you have to bring in past bank statement, you also have to count the money in your wallet, in front of them. And, if you should happen to get a job and make even one dollar over what is allowed, you will have to pay back ALL of the medical expenses you incurred while on Medicaid. How do I know? I've been through it.

I am now on SSI, Medicaid and Food Stamps. I am stuck being poor. I cannot work, just in case I may go over the income threshold, and be kicked off of all the support. It would take a miracle to make my life financially better.

zalinda

[kestrel91316]

82. Do some under-the-table work, homebased stuff. Be a petsitter/housesitter.

Make craftsy stuff to sell on Etsy or at your local farmer's market or even on Craigslist. Take up writing and sell articles to magazines.

There are ways to make money that no one can track. You charge your petsitting clients cash, and spend it at the grocery store or on needed clothes.

:evilgrin:

[Jamastiene]

89. Great minds...

:evilgrin:

[Dont_Bogart_the_Pretzel]

88. I don't think Cobra's gonna lower their prices

[Ex Lurker]

94. re: health ins for college students

when I was in college 20+ years ago, it was quite reasonable, around a hundred bucks a semester. My college-student niece checked into it recently and it has become prohibitively expensive, like everything else in higher ed.

[madfloridian]

9. Yes.

[HuckleB]

13. Prove it.

With details, please.

[madfloridian]

17. In the new bill there is a mandate.

[HuckleB]

18. .

:eyes:

[Laelth]

10. You're right. The individual mandate is absurd.

Forcing people to buy insurance is no more the answer to a failed health care system than forcing people to buy houses is the solution to homelessness.

Kill the bill.

:dem:

-Laelth

[hughee99]

Exactly, if they're going to just "mandate" shit and call it fixed,

why not just go ahead an mandate that people not get sick. Uninsured people have about as much control over their disposable income as they do of of their health.

[Laelth]

35. Well said. +1 n/t

:dem:

-Laelth

[HuckleB]

40. They're not "just mandating shit."

:eyes:

[hughee99]

79. They're mandating health coverage...

and eventually they'll help you pay for it IF you qualify. A lot of people who don't have health care can't afford it today, why would they be able to manage for a few months or even years until something "kicks in" and pays for PART of it. Sure it all goes in the front end looking like everyone has health care, but it spits people out the back in the form of bankruptcies.

Thank god they had the foresight to first go through and make it a lot more difficult to declare bankruptcy. :sarcasm:

[bobbolink]

92. That's the ticket!

Force me to buy a home, so I won't have to live in my (privileged) car.

All us homeless people buying homes will also jack up the real estate prices.

Win/win!

[girl gone mad]

105. Please..

don't give them any ideas. You know the banks, mortgage brokers, homebuilders and Realtors will be lobbying for this soon!

[bobbolink]

108. I didn't think it was necessary for that post to have the sarcasm tag.

You DID catch the part about me being homeless, right?

Or, doesn't that matter?

[HuckleB]

11. Such mandates exist in other countries.

It's nothing new.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

16. In other countries with HIGHLY REGULATED COST CONTROLLED plans

or government plans. So to make people buy losely if any regulated, no cost controlled private for profit plans - YES that i something completely new.

[HuckleB]

19. Unless you're comparing details, such language is hardly going to lead to an accurate discussion.

The point is that all this blind ranting about a mandate, in and of itself, which is what is happening at DU, is pure hyperbole.

[rollingrock]

20. Very few

in the few countries that mandate health insurance, the insurance companies aren't allowed to make a profit, the government places cost controls on all services, etc. that's not the case in the US.

[HuckleB]

23. Prove the insurance companies there can't make a profit.

Yes, cost controls need to be added. That doesn't mean we don't improve things now, and move forward rather than stick with the status quo.

The status quo sucks a whole lot worse than this bill.

[PassingFair]

60. Then lets add the cost controls NOW, and add the mandates LATER.

That way, we don't RAPE the population if we are stuck with
this POS as is.

The "status quo" is better than an unregulated insurance
industry with a mandate to collect money from every American.

[northernlights]

76. maybe for you

but my from shoes, now I get no health care for free. Under this bill, I'm forced to pay for no health care. Sucks for me. I suppose once I've lost my home, my furfamily and my car to paying insurance industry extortion...er, penalty... and am down to my last nickel, I may qualify for medicaid. whoopee.

[JFN1]

78. Wake the fuck up.

Health insurance is not NECESSARY. It exists only to make a profit - like any other business.

But the FUNCTION of health insurance - is what? What does it actually do? How does it actually contribute to the improved health of our citizens?

Health insurance is A SCAM - nothing more. It is a means by which large companies can skim money from the public without providing a NEEDED, NECESSARY service.

Mandating private insurance is a gift to this industry that produces NOTHING. It makes the status quo WORSE because it does NOT protect citizens from the very abuses CREATED BY THE INSURANCE COMPANIES. It merely pays them lip service.

So wake up - things, under this bill, are going to get MUCH worse.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

24. Yes, in countries with mandated private insurance:

1. The companies must cover everyone at a price based on their income, not on their perceived state of health, so that in those other countries, a 25-year-old pro athlete pays more than a 55-year-old WalMart worker with arthritis and diabetes.

2. The companies are not allowed to deny coverage without clear evidence of deliberate fraud.

3. There are no deductibles in any system that I've heard of, although there may be modest copays.

4. The companies are required to pay within a set number of days without question.

5. The amounts allowed for executive pay and overhead are limited.

[HuckleB]

25. Thanks for the repeat.

Link to proof of your assertions? For all countries?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

32. What am I, Google?

If you're REALLY INTERESTED and not just trying to be difficult, look 'em up yourself.

[HuckleB]

36. Baloney.

I'm tired of the sweeping generalizations.

Prove your claims, or stop making them.

[Lorien]

98. She's a very well traveled professional translator who knows of what she speaks

if YOU want to challenge her, then get off your ass and provide US with some links that dispute her claims.

[Warren Stupidity]

37. You are being rude.

This stuff has been discussed here and elsewhere ad nauseum. The facts regarding other nations with mandates are not in dispute.

[HuckleB]

41. Actually, many of the generalization posted at DU have been shown to be very much in dispute.

The lack of proof, and the lack of understanding of other systems is quite astounding for the amount of hyperbole offered.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

51. So you tell me, then, WHERE OTHER THAN THE U.S.

1. The insurance companies are allowed to charge on the basis of perceived state of health?

2. The insurance companies impose deductibles and lifetime or annual caps?

3. The insurance companies are allowed to quibble about every penny?

4. Insurance company executives are allowed to become billionaires?

[HuckleB]

57. I'm not playing that crap.

You made your claims. You prove them.

You want perfection now. I would like that, too.

I won't settle for failing to move forward. We've gone down that road twice in the last 35 years, and it got us nowhere.

[Lorien]

99. You prove yours

You're saying that everyone else is wrong. Prove it.

[flyarm]

64. I lived in Canada and paid OHIP for many years for my family..

we were charged $100.00 per by weekly paycheck..so $50.00 bucks a week..now that is going back to the 80's ..we were charged a % of income..not the type of job..as my husband was a pro athelete..

I fought paying this, as we were US citizens and we were not eligible to use OHIP..I was the first to fight paying it in my husbands sport. We won..now no one has to pay it if they are not eligible to claim it because they are American and non eligible. But we are covered under the union we belong, and our insurance gets charged a very high rate if we must go to the hospital in Canada.

However, we did not get a refund for all the years we were forced to pay for OHIP.

but the cost of going to a DR was much much cheaper..and the cost of meds..well ..there was no comparison..I would buy all my meds in Toronto and take home to Kansas for my family ..and I would even take meds home to my neighbors ( back then ) in Kansas..that they used regularly for their children that were over the counter in Canada but prescript in the USA..pennies to the dollar compared to prices here in the USA.

And as a now retired flight crew of a major airline..I used to buy my meds in England and France so much cheaper than here stateside...many were over the counter in those countries and prescript here.

Oh and most of the drugs i bought in those other countries..were manufactured here in the USA!!

[Warren Stupidity]

33. I agree with this post!

Mandates in themselves are not the problem. It is the corrupt lack of substantial regulation and oversight of the insurance company that is the problem. For example, everything you listed above.

[HuckleB]

38. There needs to be more oversight and cost controls, yes.

But I can't stick with the status quo for another 20 years.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

47. A Congress that can't even control the credit card companies

is going to regulate the insurance companies to the benefit of ordinary citizens?

Riiiiight.

"Oh, look, they're going to repeal the ban on pre-existing conditions!"

Yes, BUT, the companies will still be allowed to charge up to three times more than the unspecified base rate.

"Oh, look, they're going to forbid rescissions!"

Yes, BUT, the companies will still be able to impose annual caps on coverage, which is just rescission by another name.

"Oh, look, there will be limits on how much the companies can charge!"

Yes, BUT they're a millionaire's idea of what is affordable.

"Oh, look, people who can't afford the rates that the insurance companies charge will be eligible for subsidies."

Yes, BUT isn't that corporate welfare? And besides, these won't go into effect for four years.

"Oh, look, millions of people will be covered who aren't covered now."

Yes, BUT millions will still be uncovered.

[HuckleB]

59. Thanks for the red herring.

:eyes:

[Lydia Leftcoast]

67. OK, show me where Congress has placed effective controls on ANY industry

in the past twenty years.

[Lorien]

101. *crickets*

Not surprising, eh?

[girl gone mad]

107. How is it a red herring?

We are talking about whether or not the government is capable of regulating industry. Time and time again, the American government has proven itself to be wholly incapable of properly regulating private enterprise. Of course this is relevant to the argument at hand. Crucial, even.

[Lorien]

100. +1 nt

[Jamastiene]

90. So do laws to stone people to death for adultry and hang people

for simply being gay. That doesn't mean it is a good thing.

[eridani]

93. Really? They why don't root canals cost $25?

They did in the Netherlands in 1996. The Netherlands also has 100 euro/month/adult mandated private insurance, with NO copays, NO deductibles, and NO age rating. That's because the Dutch government DICTATES what health care and health insurance prices are going to be, just like utilities commissions here dictate utilities prices. If this shitty bill did anything like that, I'd be for it.

[Sparkly]

21. Supposedly there'll be subsidies.

In other words, taxpayer money going into the pockets of private insurance companies.

It's Socialism for taxpayer money to go directly into the pocket of doctors, but if the insurance industry gets in the middle and takes a profit, then it's okay.

[HuckleB]

26. "Supposedly."

Have you read anything about the bill?

[Sparkly]

45. Yes.

Do you have a point? :shrug:

[HuckleB]

48. Yes.

It's quite clear.

I'm tired of posts and questions by people who haven't looked into the bill at all.

Cut the hyperbole.

[Sparkly]

49. Huh?

What hyperbole? If you have a point, please make it.

[HuckleB]

55. I'm not playing games.

If you can't see the hyperbole, well, WOW!

:eyes:

[Sparkly]

58. Oh, well that explains it.

:crazy:

[HuckleB]

61. Yes, it does.

But an explanation is not what you're looking for.

:eyes:

[Sparkly]

62. Oh, I didn't realize that.

What am I looking for? Please tell me.

[Fumesucker]

75. There is no bill at the moment..

It's impossible to know what will be in the final bill as the negotiations are not finished.

If you know so much about the bill why don't you share your knowledge?

[HuckleB]

85. You crack me up.

Since you're not asking the same question of the hundreds of DUers who are ranting and raving about this non-bill, I'll just note your response for the pointless attack that it is.

:rofl:

[ima_sinnic]

103. after reading all your posts on this thread

I find you extremely transparent.

usually it takes a while to become so obvious--I wasn't paying much attention before. You have absolutely nothing to contribute to an intelligent discussion, and I don't have time to waste reading boneheaded posts with no insights whatsoever--posts not only devoid of any substance but also "challenging," the way a scrawny little bantam rooster struts around challenging everybody else on the farm, so I will use the available means to simply block your posts from my sight.

bye.

[Sparkly]

46. dupe

[Lydia Leftcoast]

31. My brother is a doctor, and he likes the national health service model

Pay the doctors a salary that gives them a comfortable but not outrageously cushy lifestyle and let them run their practices as they see fit.

He hates having the ins. co's fight every claim, and he says that Medicare has become so paranoid about fraud that it even sends threatening letters about honest mistakes in following its thousands of pages of regulations.

[Hello_Kitty]

29. Most unemployed people will qualify for Medicaid.

You can plug in ages and incomes here: http://healthreform.kff.org/SubsidyCalculator.aspx

Most of the time, unless you live in a state with generous UI benefits, unemployment will not put you above 133% FPL. Same with the part time working college student.

This is why people who insist mandated private insurance is necessary to cover "the poor" are so full of crap. Most poor people are going on Medicaid. The insurance industry is totally off the hook for their care. Granted, Medicaid is a lot better than nothing, but if you're unemployed or underemployed don't think you're going to get gold-plated treatment at private hospitals now. You're getting Medicaid. Unless, of course, Ben Nelson gets his way and states are allowed to opt out of the expansion.

[dysfunctional press]

44. how do they determine a person's income?

do they use the previous year's tax return?
how long after losing one's job does one qualify for medicaid or subsidies to pay for insurance?

if i lose my job on friday- can i get medicaid on saturday? :shrug:

[Hello_Kitty]

54. I'm not sure.

Some programs determine FPL after deductions, while others don't. I think it varies by state too. I'm rather curious as to how people who are self-employed or contractors with fluctuating incomes are going to comply with the mandate.

[rollingrock]

69. But simply being unemployed doesn't qualify you for Medicaid

...under the current program.

you have to be a member of a certain group to get Medicaid. for example, you are handicapped or have some special medical condition, you are a pregnant woman or a woman with young kids, etc. so the Medicaid program is extremely limited. most low income people don't qualify for it because they aren't a member of one of these groups. income alone doesn't determine eligibility.

are you saying Medicaid will be expanded under this bill?

[Hello_Kitty]

72. Oh yeah. Currently, Medicaid is mostly a program for poor single mothers and a few others

I was told that even though I'm unemployed and getting about $700 a month in benefits I can pretty much hang it up because I don't have a kid and I'm not disabled.

[juno jones]

71. Many docs and clinics don't take medicaid.

In many places the only place that will take medicaid is the emergency room.

Which is where the poor will STILL get their medical care when this bill is passed, because they STILL won't be able to afford anything else.

Not to mention, dealing with means testing, dealing with lack of personal resources as mandated by medicare for admission, and social workers who act as if all benefits have to be pulled painfully from their ass.


Despite the hand-wringing of the do-gooders, most of the working poor are going to be even worse off than they are now.

And I'm still wondering about that 3X thingy. If you qualify for a subsidy, but have to pay 3X more just because you happen not to be young any longer, are you still gonna be able to afford it, subsidy or no?

[Le Taz Hot]

96. But your choices on the calculator are

"Singe"
"Family of 4"

Most people don't fall under either of those so the calculator is useless for most of us. Most of us wouldn't qualify for Medicaid because we have assets which eliminates eligibility.

[Warren Stupidity]

30. 90 day window

The 'fine' is in the form of what you owe the IRS. It is part of the tax system. You may have noticed that you do not have a lot of say in how your taxes get paid. The Evile Gummint takes its cut before you get yours.

Many people who get unemployed after having employer based health insurance continue their insurance through COBRA - which program is so popular and essential that it was recently extended by the house in the defense spending authorization bill.

If you are below 400% of the FPL you get a subsidy. The lower your wages the higher the subsidy. Eventually medicaid kicks in. The PO which doesn't exist would have kicked in if no affordable insurance even with subsidies were available. The PO was massively bullshitty. The medicare buy in that had a butterfly's life was a dangerously good idea, which is why it got killed right quick.

[upi402]

39. Please proceed to gate #9 and do not resist

It will be for the best. Resistance is futile, All hail the UNIPARTY!

:banghead:

[bridgit]

42. Do I have to purchase mandated health insur if I am relatively healthy and remain so?

[bridgit]

43. If auto insur can provide several million $'s worth of *uninsured coverage* for $100+ a month...

Why can't health care insur?

[Unvanguard]

91. Yes. That's basically the point of the mandate.

The idea is that the costs of sickness are shared among everyone, so that sickness is less economically devastating and people with expensive conditions can get reasonably-priced insurance.

[aburgess8550]

52. probably the same, as per usual

[PSPS]

63. Short answer: Either you or the taxpayers will pay your portion of the CEO's billion a year income.

[amborin]

65. higher premiums for "pre-existing" conditions

[BalancedGoat]

95. There's an exemption in the current version of the senate bill.

If you can't find a policy for less than 8% of your income you can get an exemption from the individual mandate. Assuming that part makes it into the final bill, the unemployed will not have to purchase health insurance.

[ima_sinnic]

106. in other words, those who can't afford it are still uninsured b/c they're "exempted"?

I picture the "subsidy" as some horrible, bureaucratic thing akin to "welfare" (and I used to be a social worker for the City of NY in Brooklyn, so I know just what a grinder "the system" is), where people must literally shuffle and demean themselves to get some help--after making countless fruitless trips back and forth (on public transportation, with a couple of little children in tow, on an empty stomach) to get some receipt or form "proving" they are desperate and don't have a couple hundred dollars hidden in some bank acct, or--*gasp*--a car (I actually saw this in NYC--a woman in tears being sent back to somewhere on a technicality, a missing form or something--you could tell she was starving, desperate, and hopeless--I quit that job after only 5 months, the first job I had after college in 1968, because I'd developed an ulcer from dealing with low-level bureaucrats, the clerks who made out the checks, who seized every opportunity to question grants that had been authorized by a couple of tiers of supervisors.)

So anyway, I hope I'm wrong--god, I do--but I have a feeling it might be just another one of those red-tape things that kills people faster than lack of "health insurance."

[Lorien]

97. And what's the deductible?

The insurance I pay for comes with a deductible of 12k, which makes it "affordable".