Why isn't lying to Congress to take the country into war considered to be treason?

[WritersBlock]

It sure seems treasonous to me.

[panader0]

1. Check out the Google ad at the top of the page

Sign the petition to impeach

[90-percent]

2. If our founding fathers were still around

They would draw and quarter Bush Cheney, Condi, Rove, Gonzo and the rest of the traitors on the WHITE HOUSE LAWN!

This treasonous bunch of sociopathic murderers deserve the worst fate a human being can suffer. FOR THE WHOLE WORLD TO SEE.

America must show the world that we no longer accept the leadership of these mass murdering criminals!

-85% Jimmy

[acmavm]

3. It is treason. But the republicans are in denial. And so are the dems who

voted to support the IWR and sat on their hands with their mouths shut as bush** and Cheney violated every aritcle of that resolution. They let him go on national television and say things like we had to bomb and kill innocent people because Saddam wouldn't 'let the weaons inspectors do their jobs' (he was the one that told them to get out).


Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source
trea·son /ˈtrizən/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. the offense of acting to overthrow one's government or to harm or kill its sovereign.
2. a violation of allegiance to one's sovereign or to one's state.
3. the betrayal of a trust or confidence; breach of faith; treachery.


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—Synonyms 1. Treason, sedition mean disloyalty or treachery to one's country or its government. Treason is any attempt to overthrow the government or impair the well-being of a state to which one owes allegiance; the crime of giving aid or comfort to the enemies of one's government. Sedition is any act, writing, speech, etc., directed unlawfully against state authority, the government, or constitution, or calculated to bring it into contempt or to incite others to hostility, ill will or disaffection; it does not amount to treason and therefore is not a capital offense. 2. See disloyalty.
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.
American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source trea·son (trē'zən) Pronunciation Key
n.
Violation of allegiance toward one's country or sovereign, especially the betrayal of one's country by waging war against it or by consciously and purposely acting to aid its enemies.
A betrayal of trust or confidence.





(Download Now or Buy the Book) The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2006 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
Online Etymology Dictionary - Cite This Source
treason

c.1225, from Anglo-Fr. treson, from O.Fr. traison (11c.; Fr. trahison), from L. traditionem (nom. traditio) "a handing over, delivery, surrender" (see tradition). O.Fr. form influenced by the verb trair "betray." In old English law, high treason is violation by a subject of his allegiance to his sovereign or to the state; distinguished from petit treason, treason against a subject, such as murder of a master by his servant.

Online Etymology Dictionary, © 2001 Douglas Harper
WordNet - Cite This Source treason

noun
1. a crime that undermines the offender's government
2. disloyalty by virtue of subversive behavior
3. an act of deliberate betrayal

WordNet® 3.0, © 2006 by Princeton University.
Kernerman English Multilingual Dictionary (Beta Version) - Cite This Source
treason <ˈtriːzn> noun

(also high treason) disloyalty to, or betrayal of, one's own country
Example: They were convicted of (high) treason. Arabic: خِيانَه
Chinese (Simplified): 叛国
Chinese (Traditional): 叛國
Czech: velezrada
Danish: højforræderi; landsforræderi
Dutch: hoogverraad
Estonian: riigireetmine
Finnish: valtiopetos
French: trahison
German: der Verrat
Greek: προδοσία
Hungarian: hazaárulás
Icelandic: föðurlandssvik, landráð
Indonesian: pengkhianatan
Italian: tradimento
Japanese: 反逆
Korean: 반역죄
Latvian: (valsts) nodevība
Lithuanian: (tėvynės) išdavimas
Norwegian: landssvik, *-forræderi
Polish: zdrada
Portuguese (Brazil): traição
Portuguese (Portugal): traição
Romanian: tră­dare
Russian: (государственная) измена
Slovak: vlastizrada
Slovenian: izdaja
Spanish: traición
Swedish: landsförräderi, högförräderi
Turkish: vatana ihanet



Kernerman English Multilingual Dictionary (Beta Version), © 2000-2006 K Dictionaries Ltd.
Merriam-Webster's Dictionary of Law - Cite This Source
Main Entry: trea·son
Pronunciation: 'trEz-&noun
Function: noun
Etymology: Anglo-French treison crime of violence against a person to whom allegiance is owed, literally, betrayal, from Old French traïson, from traïr to betray, from Latin tradere to hand over, surrender
: the offense of attempting to overthrow the government of one's country or of assisting its enemies in war; specifically : the act of levying war against the United States or adhering to or giving aid and comfort to its enemies by one who owes it allegiance —trea·son·ous /-&s/ adjective

[Buzz Clik]

4. Proving that Bush was lying would be difficult and divisive.

The Senate would never convict him. It's a waste of time.

[HereSince1628]

12. Yes and attempting to do so is off the table.

[ixion]

5. because: IOKIYAR

If it had been a dem administration, all hell would have broken loose by now.

[WinkyDink]

10. The acronym =?

[rusty charly]

15. It's OK If You're A Repuke.

[WinkyDink]

18. Thanks!

[elocs]

6. Certainly it might be, but thinking you know it and proving it are two different things.

There are multitudes here who are sure that Bush is a liar about many important things and who could detail their cases. But proving that in a court where 100 U.S. Senators are the jury is a different matter. If it was such a simple and clear cut up and down case it would have been done by now and brick by brick it probably is being done now. So many want impeachment first and then build a case. Build the case and then impeachment as well as conviction (or resignation) will take place.

[porphyrian]

7. I've been calling it treason all along. - n/t

[maine_raptor]

8. Treason is the only crime defined in the Constitution.

Article III. Section 3.

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort. No person shall be convicted of treason unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open court.


The Congress shall have power to declare the punishment of treason, but no attainder of treason shall work corruption of blood, or forfeiture except during the life of the person attainted.

That's why.

Sorry, but lying to Congress is not mentioned. That's another Law altogether.

[merh]

11. How about giving the locations of our troops in Iraq

as caught on video?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x721564

And the rat bastard says no withdrawal time table because it gives the enemy our war plans. :grr:

[maine_raptor]

13. Yes and No

Yes, because it is giving aid and comfort.

No, because as Prez, Bush can reveal TS info. LBJ did it in the 60's when he announced the development of the SR-71 (which was actually named the RS-71, but Johnson mis-spoke and they quickly reversed the ID). He also would appear regularly on TV, and with maps, layout the plans for some upcoming operation in Vietnam.

[merh]

14. So the pres can put the lives of our troops at greater risk during

a publicity speech? That is horrible.

Hopefully congress will call him on his tactics while accusing them of doing worse than the timetable could ever do.

:mad:

[maine_raptor]

16. Yup, he's the Prez.

He's allowed a lot a latitude.

Congress can call him on it, but then it'll just be "partisan politics".

[WinkyDink]

9. Certainly revealing the name of a covert spy is, isn't it?

[Ino]

17. James Iredell, a SC justice appointed by Washington...

had this to say about impeachment, which is very appropriate to this situation:
http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/a2_2_2-3s11.html

The President must certainly be punishable for giving false information to the Senate. He is to regulate all intercourse with foreign powers, and it is his duty to impart to the Senate every material intelligence he receives. If it should appear that he has not given them full information, but has concealed important intelligence which he ought to have communicated, and by that means induced them to enter into measures injurious to their country, and which they would not have consented to had the true state of things been disclosed to them,--in this case, I ask whether, upon an impeachment for a misdemeanor upon such an account, the Senate would probably favor him.

[Solly Mack]

19. ...

....

[Igel]

20. Because "lie" is hard to prove.

"To present false information with the intention of deceiving. "

You see, the problem is "intention of deceiving"; this entails "knowing that the information is false".

It's the same problem with perjury: The mental state of the speaker is paramount. Mangum, the "Duke rape case" accuser, is *not* going to be prosecuted for giving false statements because the state attorney general believes that she though her statements true. She said some mightily false statements, with the intent that others believe her, but she did not lie.

I know of no evidence that *, Wolfowitz, and others didn't believe what they were saying was true. This means no matter how false the statements and no matter how deluded * (etc.) on the point, they didn't lie. They were wrong. But I'm open to additional evidence.

[pat_k]

22. Unlike the crimes they intentionally commit in plain sight. . .

. . .to "prove" their fascist fantasy that the Office of the President has absolute and unlimited put to "protect us" (i.e., that "the decider" is a unitary authoritarian executive).

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/pat_k/22

[pat_k]

21. It is. But their claim to absolute power to turn Americans into torturers. . .

. . .and spies is what has nullfied the U.S. Constitution.

We know they terrorized the nation into war with their threats of "mushroom clouds in 45 minutes," but they attempt to defend themselves against that one on "state of mind" grounds, and therefore, our case against them is not a "slam dunk."

On the other hand, we know they are turning Americans into torturers and spies because they are doing it plain sight. They do not bother to defend themselves. They have no intention of defending themselves. They commit these crimes in plain sight to "prove" their fascist fantasy that the Office of the President has absolute and unlimited put to "protect us" (i.e., "the decider" is a unitary authoritarian executive). Like squatters, Bush and Cheney are laying claim to unconstitutional power through openly hostile possession. They do something unequivocally forbidden under our Constitution, publicly declare it is not forbidden, and dare Members of Congress to stop them. By refusing to impeach, Members of Congress legitimize the fascist fantasy that the American presidency is vested with unlimited power.

More here:

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/pat_k/22

[Tom Joad]

23. Why are not those that believed the bullshit considered treasonous

most of us did not believe Bush, why were our congresscritters so stupid?

those that did are at least guilty of idiocy, and should retire to shuffleboarding.

Although, i don't think they really were fooled, as much as willing to play the game. after all, they knew no Iraqis, their kids weren't going to war... so why the hell not... saying something, they must have figured, would cost some lost campaign money... so balance the possible loss of campaign money versus lives of Iraqis... and the campaign money is gonna win every time.

[tavalon]

24. Because we live in upside down world these days

Lying to Congress to take the country into war now earns one the Medal of Freedom.

[Mme. Defarge]

25. For that matter,

why isn't breaking the Presidential oath to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States considered treason?