Simple question: Is jail time a possible penalty under the mandate?

[dorkulon]

What are the prescribed punishments for failing to purchase health insurance?

[sinkingfeeling]

1. No, it's a fine.

[LaydeeBug]

26. and if you can't pay the fine, you go to jail, where you have access to health care. nt

[sinkingfeeling]

29. Sure, just keep ignoring the amendment that says it won't and make up your own answers.

It's worth noting that the Senate Finance Committee's version of the bill includes an amendment specifying that no one could be imprisoned or face civil penalties for ignoring the tax.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2009/11/gop_charge_skipping_insurance.html#commentBlock

[Statistical]

33. The amendments is included in all versions of the bill?

I tried searching for the text of the amendment and came up empty.

Sorry if I don't hang my hat on a Secret Amendment that isn't in all forms of the bill.

[sinkingfeeling]

37. You should only be concerned with the Senate bill that may/may not be voted on. And here, on page

340, it says:

1 ‘‘(A) WAIVER OF CRIMINAL PENALTIES.—
2 In the case of any failure by a taxpayer to time3
ly pay any penalty imposed by this section, such
4 taxpayer shall not be subject to any criminal
5 prosecution or penalty with respect to such fail6
ure.

[Statistical]

38. Of course no protection for incorrect/fradulent filing or nonfiling.

Someone knowing they got hit with a HCR tax may just not file a return. The IRS could consider that willful noncompliance. Using nonfiling to hide tax liabilities.

[LaydeeBug]

40. isn't a fine a civil penalty? Of COURSE it is...

but you already knew that, didn't you?

[Statistical]

28. It is a fine and the fine is collected via the IRS and failure to pay taxes assessed by the IRS...

can lead to further fines, penalties, ganrishments and YES jail time.

So saying you can't be put in jail is like saying you can't be put in jail for speeding.
Well no it isn't like the act of speeding instantly and magically teleports you into jail (without passing "GO").
However speeding can start a chain of events which leads you to jail.

Ask Wesley Snipes if you can go to jail for not paying taxes.

Will most "non compliant Americans go to jail".

No most will simply pay the fine/tax.
Of those that don't the IRS will catch then slap interest, and penalties onto the original fine/tax and they will pay that.
Of those that don't the IRS will seek garnishment, liens, or other civil action to collect even more fines & penalties.

However some Americans will go to jail as a result of "willful noncompliance".

[kestrel91316]

35. Wrong. People don't go to jail for not having the money to pay an IRS bill.

Jail is for those who fail to file returns of file fraudulent returns.

If you owe the IRS a fine, they take "collection" measures, up to an including seizure of property. The IRS does not jail people for not paying. We do not have debtor's prisons. This is a RW fabrication.

[Statistical]

36. To avoid paying the fee what do you think most people will do?

Most people don't file a legit tax return and just simply not pay the IRS.

Most people will "check the right box" so the tax returns says they don't owe the money.

When IRS catches them they will have filed a fradulent return. Doing so can result in jail time.

Likely 99.9999999% of Americans will NOT go to Jail over this but people do go to jail every year from "willfully avoiding tax liabilities".

The idea that nobody (not once, not ever) will go to jail as a result of the HCR fine/tax is a joke.

[chandler2]

2. It's already jail time for failure to purchase auto insurance

I know, because it happened to me.

[Obamanaut]

8. Were you operating a vehicle on your own property or on public

roads? Was there an accident involved on a public road?

[chandler2]

12. Public street, no accident --- not the point, though.

Should it be illegal to NOT purchase insurance against being stupid? How about for acts which result from ignorance, meanness,
jealousy of co-worker(s) resulting in trying to get them fired etc.

Why should you be required to purchase auto liability insurance? Prior to the laws which mandate it, if you were involved in
an accident with an uninsured driver, YOUR insurance would take care of any damages to your vehicle.

Should you be required to purchase EMPLOYMENT insurance...so you won't be a drain on society by expecting to be compensated
while you aren't working?

[dorkulon]

16. It's a little different.

You're only required to have car insurance if you have a car. The health insurance mandate applies to anyone who is simply alive. You can choose not to have a car--theoretically, anyhow.

[chandler2]

20. You have failed to grasp the point of the argument. nt

[ProdigalJunkMail]

22. wrong...you have failed to make a cogent argument n/t

[Obamanaut]

39. And, one can choose to have a car without insurance. Keep the car

on your own property, drive it around your own acreage to your heart's content, don't get a vehicle tag to operate on public streets then keep it off the public streets.

There is no requirement for insurance for an auto UNLESS one takes it out into the public on public streets.

[pnwmom]

23. Why should my insurance be higher to pay for your lack of insurance?

"Prior to the laws which mandate it, if you were involved in
an accident with an uninsured driver, YOUR insurance would take care of any damages to your vehicle."

And the only way that worked was that all the insured had higher rates than they otherwise would have.

[LaydeeBug]

27. You don't HAVE to drive a car uninsured, you could have gone with the PUBLIC option of the bus

or a private option of calling a cab. This is why the car insurance mandate = health insurance mandate IS JUST BULLSHIT PLAIN AND SIMPLE.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

3. the mandate is silly - single payer takes it out of your salary direct to doctors

without the insurance company piranhas

[chandler2]

14. It isn't silly to ins. co. executives & enforcement bureaucrats...

speaking of which, a whole new for-profit business sector will be allowed to identify those who aren't insured.

No, it isn't silly. It's a $$$ scam.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

17. Aetna $34 million a year CEO

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2009/12/best-boss-09_CEO-Compensation-Health-Care-Equipment-Services_9Rank.html

[OneGrassRoot]

4. Here's a highly entertaining thread about same. :)

:hi:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7247790&mesg_id=7247790

[MercutioATC]

5. My understanding is no, officially...but yes, in practice.

There would be a fine accessed to those that do not obtain health insurance.

Failure to pay that fine could legally result in jail time.

[DrDan]

7. for those that can't pay the premiums, how are they suppose to pay the fine?

[MercutioATC]

9. Stop asking reasonable questions.

I have no idea...which is why I don't understand how they intend to enforce the mandate.




"I killed three people. What are YOU in for?"

"My health insurance lapsed."

[murray hill farm]

18. Well.....on the positive side...

If you are in jail, then you are not homeless, you get fed and clothed...AND, your health care is provided...no cost! Cool!!!

[MercutioATC]

21. I'm not so sure you'd like your neighbors, though.

...and the ambiance leaves something to be desired.

[murray hill farm]

34. I know....

always something! Ha!

[napi21]

6. There was a post yesterday about this that had a link.

There is no direct jail time for not buying ins, just a fine in form of a tax. BUT, there is possible jail time for non-payment of taxes due. So it's a possible defacto jail time. I'll try to find the post.

Here's the link from yesterday.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7247785

[Walk away]

10. Hopefully it is considered a federal crime to not pay the fine/tax.

Then at least you'll be sent to a prison/medical facility if you are ill, you will have three hots and a cot plus a job. Better that freedom in the U.S.A.!

[ananda]

11. It's epic Dickensian evil.

Punish people for not being able to buy health insurance
because companies are downsizing, outsourcing, not
providing benefits, etc. while at the same time forcing
Congress to give them more money to go down the sinkhole
of bonuses and big executive pay packages.

It's called predatory flood up economics and it aint
nuthin nice.

[dgibby]

32. The sooner they can destroy the middle class, the sooner

they'll be able to make more money off of Globalization.

[dorkulon]

13. Found a link that pretty much explains it:

http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2009/11/gop_charge_skipping_insurance.html#commentBlock

[tomm2thumbs]

15. omg - that picture!

and the donkey appears to actually like it - shows how sick Washington Democrats have gotten that getting plowed by a turncoat they took back into their caucus makes 'em happy

[dorkulon]

19. lol it's from the last "50 most loathsome Americans" list.

Seemed appropriate when I put it in my sig yesterday :)

[Jamastiene]

24. If you cannot afford the health insurance,

you probably cannot afford the tax they impose on you for not buying the insurance either. And not paying that tax can land you in prison for 1 to 5 years with stiffer fines. So, it can lead to prison that way.

[yodoobo]

25. Yes, but only indirectly

The penalty for not buying insurance is a fine imposed by the IRS.

If you don't pay the IRS fine, then you are subject to the standard IRS enforcement mechanisms which do include jail time and seizure and sale of any assets you might have.

[closeupready]

30. Since the mandate is a tax, yes, just like if you refuse to pay your income taxes.

n/t

[Nikki Stone1]

31. Jail time is a penalty for not paying IRS fines/taxes. I imagine that insurance fines will

operate the same way.

At very least, it will ruin your credit and you won't ever be able to get ahead. It is also possible that your children will eventually not be allowed to attend school without proof of insurance.

[readmoreoften]

41. Didn't a primary season post have a Dem saying "I envision a day when you have to have insurance to

apply for a job"? I'm paraphrasing; it was something to that effect, though. I wonder if we're going to have to have our insurance card to apply for jobs the way students must be insured to attend college. Anyone have a link? Sorry for being so vague.

[liberalpragmatist]

42. $95 fine in 2014. $750 fine in 2015

$750 fine in 2015 paid as a tax on your tax form.