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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:21 PM
Original message
I'm going to jail, who's with me?
If they mandate I buy health insurance that I can't afford I will happily go to jail. There I will get a roof over my head, three meals a day, something constructive to do and I'll get free health care. All provided by the state. Do the math, it's not a bad deal.

What about you guys?
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:22 PM
Response to Original message
1. I'll try to stay out of prison myself, thanks.
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freddie mertz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:22 PM
Response to Original message
2. Since I have a pre-existing condition, jail may be my only hope.
Hope I can believe in!

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AndrewP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #2
10. Yes, Hope we can really believe in!
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Fuzz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #2
12. Heh, sad but true. Those of us with chronic conditions are screwed.
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Kansas Wyatt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #2
47. Hope you can believe in...
Maybe you can be on his Change Gang too.
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freddie mertz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #47
53. "Change Gang"! Wish I'd thought of that! nt.
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #47
97. That is, as they say, a good one.
:applause:
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theHandpuppet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #2
135. Same here
At least if I'm in prison I could get a health care plan.
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Celebration Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #2
172. under the bill
they can't take pre existing conditions into account, I thought?

:shrug:
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sakabatou Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:22 PM
Response to Original message
3. Off to prison too...
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CaliforniaPeggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:23 PM
Response to Original message
4. My dear asdjrocky...
I'd go with you, except I've got Medicare...

Such a lame excuse!

I'm so sorry, sweetie... :cry:

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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. You are so lucky.
Man I never thought I'd say this, but I sure wish I was 65.
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CaliforniaPeggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:30 PM
Original message
I know how lucky I am...
And how much I wish Medicare were covering everyone, the way it was originally designed.

:hug:
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #4
24. for how long? defunding it is where some of the "savings" come from...
there's a reason they didn't do the obvious & expand medicare when it came to reforming health care.

it's in the bulls-eye.
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CaliforniaPeggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #24
65. No idea...
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:23 PM
Response to Original message
5. Sign me up
How ironic would it be if Civil Disobedience comes down to refusing to buy their crappy insurance!
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:23 PM
Response to Original message
6. I can't go to jail because they'll put my animals down.
I'll just have to go on the lam. Anyone have a hippy van I can trade for? :)
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. We'll start an outlaw commune.
All we need is an old school bus.
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. I'm down for that!
Maybe Fly By Night will let us crash on his farm!
Bernie?

BHN
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #18
25. There's 20 acres right here and at the rate the county is giving us permits
we could all crash here for the next fifty years. lol
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. Can we grow food there and cultivate some livestock?
If so, count me in.

BHN
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #27
32. I'm one hell of a gardener.
I can grow anything. :smoke:
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #32
36. Well since none of us will have healthcare, guess we better grow some!
Sounds like a plan to me!
:smoke: :thumbsup: :hi:

BHN
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #32
40. I used to dry rose petals for potpourri on big screens under the porch.
:)
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 12:00 AM
Response to Reply #40
109. The hell you say!
I've heard of that.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #27
37. Yep but if the county inspector shows up, we hide or we're cleaning up the stream!
There are also really smart ants here in Spring and Summer. They wait until the corn is ripe before they eat it. :)









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arcadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #25
58. I'm down with the commune.
I know where there is cheap land in Colorado, not far from Toas, NM.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #58
152. Colorado is beautiful,
...but if you want to actually GROW something,
the Deep South is the best place.
Fertile Land
Inexpensive Property
LONG growing Season
Abundant water
NO building codes, permits, or inspections in most rural areas
Low cost of living
Low Winter energy costs (Wood stove, cut and split your own hardwood)

There are some drawbacks like ignorance, fundamentalism, poverty, lack of Social Services, lack of good jobs, HOT muggy Summers.


We felt the trade off was worth it, and are happy with our choice, Ouachita Mountains, Arkansas.
Inexpensive property,
on property underground Spring, abundant clean, clear spring water.
Surrounded by extensive National Forest, Plenty of game.
Low Property Tax,
Build what we want when we want to (No permits),
No Industry, Factory Farms, or Urban Pollution for many miles.

If you are looking, do NOT underestimate the importance of clean, abundant, accessible WATER.




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Ghost in the Machine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #18
44. Well, if Bernie can't put ya up, I can..
He's not too far from me, maybe two hours.. but I've got 12.5 acres out in the country here in East Tennessee :-)

Come on by.. take your shoes off and stay a while :hi:


Peace,

Ghost

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OneGrassRoot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #44
55. LOL, your sig sign......about abstinence

:rofl:


:yourock:
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Ghost in the Machine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 10:36 PM
Response to Reply #55
94. Thanks, but I can't take credit for it..
I stole it off the landover baptist church website

:hi:

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #13
19. LOL. An old school bus and wifi.
:rofl:
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #19
35. I would so be in.
When we run out of money we'll cruise Wall Street and mug banksters.
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #35
163. No reason to run out of money
Extra cows and goats for making cheese for sale. Sell excess garden harvest. Lots creative and talented people here with skills to manufacture goods and provide services.
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OneGrassRoot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #13
33. Sweet

:hippie:

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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #33
52. Dude, you are so there. nt
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PufPuf23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #13
62. Those were the days my friends! nt
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #13
130. Don't y'all start one without me.
Edited on Thu Dec-17-09 10:49 AM by shadowknows69
I'm not in much shape to help till the land these days, but you'll find something for me.
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WolverineDG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #6
101. We can start a website
Uninsured Underground

:)

dg
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #101
104. LOL!
Okay, we need a bus, wifi and a website. :)
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #101
111. That is a Duzy.
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OneGrassRoot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 05:24 AM
Response to Reply #111
118. +1 LOL n/t
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:23 PM
Response to Original message
7. Me - they got great health care there too!
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muntrv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:23 PM
Response to Original message
8. What if we all refused to buy health insurance? They can't jail ALL of us!
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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. THAT is the plan I hope for if they pass this piece of shit bill
massive unrest, people saying NO WE WONT

let them come and get us.

Im not buying one cent into this ripoff .
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #8
45. Now you're using you noodle.
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itsrobert Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:25 PM
Response to Original message
11. Why should the State pay? It's a federal mandate.
It should be provided by the feds.
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. Very good point Robert.
Everybody knows Fed prison is better than state. Even better!
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #15
30. Make sure you're wearing a hwite collar when they come for you.
Everybody knows the white collar Fed prisons are infinitely better than the ones where they put the drug dealers.
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #30
48. I've been in the county jail in Stockton Ca.
Not too much I haven't seen.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #48
74. I've been in every jail in NW Wisconsin and most of the prisons in the state.
Not to mention the state mental hospitals.

Forensic psychology is fun.
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #74
77. My daughter is interested in that.
She's in college now. It must be fascinating, and a lot of hard work.
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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #30
71. many drug crimes are federal offenses
but don't let not knowing what you're talking about stop you from talking
or anything radical like that...
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #71
124. I was distinguishing between 2 classes of Federal prison, i.e.
the minimum-security paces and the medium to maximum ones. White-collar criminals tend to get sent to the minimum-types. But don't let the opportunity for a nice snark get in the way of your comprehending what someone's writing.
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timeforpeace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #11
21. The ultimate unfunded mandate. Unfunded, coercive, creating a new criminal class. Hope and change!
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Goldstein1984 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:26 PM
Response to Original message
16. I'm fortunate enough to have good health care coverage
And I'm saving my vacation for some jail time if there are any good anti-war protests next spring in Washington, D.C.

I hope they schedule one for when the cherry trees are blooming.
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xiamiam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #16
46. march 13..camp out now...cindy sheehan setting up camp across from the white house
i think i'll go too..i also think every major city should host one as well...a national strike or something...this is beyond bullshit
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Goldstein1984 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #46
78. Yes, that one looked good.
Edited on Wed Dec-16-09 10:27 PM by Goldstein1984
Pre-cherry blossom, but sure to get press. A good show would send a powerful message.
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xiamiam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #78
82.  time to get organized..nt
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StarfarerBill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:27 PM
Response to Original message
17. Yo.
I'm not going to bankrupt myself for a year or two of insurance; I do hope to live longer than that, even if it's in prison.
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TomCADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:27 PM
Response to Original message
20. You Could Do That Now, Just Evade Taxes...
Why should the status of health care reform matter?
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. Buddy, I don't make enough money to evade taxes.
Now don't you think if I was worried about the taxes I pay I'd have health insurance?
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goldcanyonaz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:28 PM
Response to Original message
22. My job affords me great coverage, I'm surely one of the lucky ones.
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HipChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:30 PM
Response to Original message
26. How many times are people jailed for not having auto insurance?..
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #26
39. Often in California, especially if they are poor and can't pay the fine.
I know two people it has happened to.
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tonysam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:32 PM
Response to Original message
28. Anything like that becomes law, and the Democrats will never
be in the majority again.

What a hell of a fucking deal. We need to get rid of ALL of the U.S. Senators. They are worthless pieces of corrupt shit.
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arcadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #28
70. The US Senate is a Country Club.
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closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #70
156. 62% of Senators are outright millionaires; median net worth is $1.7M.
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bluedigger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:32 PM
Response to Original message
29. Hey there, bunkie!
At last, crime will truly pay...
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freddie mertz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:33 PM
Response to Original message
31. Wow. In August I stood loyally with the president. TODAY I am contemplating
.. seriously contemplating, the possibility of massive civil disobedience against the same president.

How did this happen?

Will I live long enough to read the definitive book on the subject?

Will we still HAVE books?

Will it be available in the prison library where they lock me up with the other previous conditioners?
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #31
38. Say what?
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freddie mertz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #38
50. So Krugman is back on the bus now? nt.
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #50
56. What I like about Krugman, is that he doesn't let emotion get in the way of making life better.
Even when it should be a whole heck of a lot better.
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freddie mertz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #56
68. I respect his opinion, but disagree with it.
This mandate is pure poison.
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #68
73. OK, so we disagree.
Edited on Wed Dec-16-09 09:58 PM by HuckleB
I'm not happy with doing it this way, but it's not unprecedented.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/george-halvorson/point-5-...

Yeah, I know the piece is buy a Kaiser dufus. I'm not pushing the piece, just the information in the piece that shows this isn't all that off base from what the rest of world does.
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no limit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:34 PM
Response to Original message
34. You won't go to jail for not buying health insurance.Facts are a bitch, arent they?
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #34
41. So if I refuse to buy insurance what will they do?
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #41
59. Well, there is that garnishing wages thing.
You could then quit your job, of course, but...
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:53 PM
Original message
I can be a stubborn fellow. nt
Edited on Wed Dec-16-09 09:54 PM by asdjrocky
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:55 PM
Response to Original message
72. Well, the street's not much fun at bed time, IMO.
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #59
137. Some of us don't have jobs to lose.
And a 10% wage garnish can mean the difference between paying rent or not.
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no limit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #137
140. Where did you get 10%?
Did you make this number up?
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #140
150. No, that's the amount they are allow to garnish your wages
Edited on Thu Dec-17-09 01:39 PM by shadowknows69
Been through it, didn't make it up.
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no limit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #150
151. Source for this? Last time I read the tax increase would be a max of 2%
now if you are talking about garnishing your wages because you refuse to pay your taxes then thats a different story that has nothing to do with this health care bill.
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #151
154. But the fines they will levy they'll be able to garnish the same 10% as any ruiling against assets
And again, my source is that my wife and I have been through it. Sorry I don't have anything more official than that.
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no limit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #154
155. I believe you the IRS can garnish 10%. But that's a false argument
They garnish your wages when you don't pay your taxes. As long as you pay your taxes then you don't have to worry about it. This is no different than if congress increases your taxes in any other way. So this will not cost you 10% of your wages, at most it will cost 2% if you can afford insurance but simply refuse to buy it.

I'm really hoping that they drop the mandate which is starting to look likely, if they don't I do hope this bill dies. But it's simply not accurate to say that you will go to jail if you don't pay the fine or that the IRS will garnish 10% of your wages for not buying insurance.
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #155
159. We can't afford insurance anyway. We will get fined.
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no limit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #159
160. No you won't. You'll get a subsidy
that doesn't mean this is a good bill. But have you actually taken any time to study how this bill would really affect you?
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #160
161. If there's no price controls the subsidy, which I assume we won't get until tax returns
Won't do us a bit of good. Until my wife's last paycheck we had 11 dollars in our account. Any new costs and we're homeless. Period.
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no limit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #161
162. Have you considered medicaid?
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #162
165. Don't you think I would have tried that by now?
We don't qualify. We're in the cracks of the system. Make too much to qualify, which the threshold is like 16K a year BTW, and too little to survive. Any further suggestions?
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no limit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #41
121. Increase your taxes by up to 2% assuming you can afford the insurance but just refuse to buy it
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yodoobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #34
126. true - you go to jail for not paying the fine.
As long as you pay the fine levied by the IRS, you don't have to buy health insurance.


Now if you don't pay the fine, then you are subject to all the standard tools that the IRS has to make people comply. Which includes jail and seizure/sale of your assets.

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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #126
138. The when/if it passes I might as well just turn myself in
Before my poor wife gets stuck paying for both our fines.
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Fla_Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
42. I'm too pretty to go to jail
Hey, it's worked in the past. I'd call that a legal precedence.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...




:evilgrin:
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WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
43. At least it's three hots and a cot
not to mention free healthcare.
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SOS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:42 PM
Response to Original message
49. Nobody is going to jail
they'll just add it to your back taxes and take it out of your Social Security, or estate if the system kills you before 65.
If you're broke and die before 65, you're all set.

"United We Stand"!
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #49
51. So people hanging on by their fingernails should just let go.
Your credit will be ruined but it's all good.
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PSzymeczek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #51
81. My credit's already ruined.
Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #81
84. I hear that!
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closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #81
157. Take another little piece of my heart, now, baby!
:rofl: :hi:
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Usrename Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #49
54. Sadly, that's right.
Jail is too good for those deadbeats!

:banghead:
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #49
60. Yup.
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intheflow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:49 PM
Response to Original message
57. Can I bring my dog?
No? Well, we'll just have to live under a bridge, off-the-grid, to avoid incarceration.
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #57
61. We're getting a band of criminals together to go on the road.
You are welcome to come.
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #61
139. Someone teach me to shoot and I'm there.
I've played shooter video games all my life so my aim should be pretty good at least.
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countmyvote4real Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:52 PM
Response to Original message
63. I hear ya: Mandate + Debtors Prison = Health Care Reform
I can't afford it now, so I've got no way to pay for it anyway. I wonder how much time/coverage we'll get.
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tranche Donating Member (913 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:52 PM
Response to Original message
64. Do you pay for health insurance now?
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #64
66. Most people who have insurance, do pay.
Edited on Wed Dec-16-09 09:54 PM by HuckleB
It's a part of their employment. Or they have paid into the system all their lives.
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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:53 PM
Response to Original message
67. since i can actually DO math i know just how stupid this post is
i'll leave aside the lies and misinformation that you are spreading, because you know as well as i do that no one is going to jail for not buying health insurance, i'll just ask you this -- do you know ANYTHING about jail? have you ever even met anyone who has gone there?

your fantasy of free health care in jail is just that, a ridiculous fantasy, health care in jail is so awful that there are routine stories of women being forced to give birth in shackles and having a baby isn't exactly the most advanced tech medical problem that a jailhouse doctor will face

and i love the fantasy of "something constructive to do," um, you do realize that not everyone in jail automatically gets a job, it's a privilege that is earned, and a malingerer is not going to earn it

oh, you're not a malingerer? you're really sick? guess what, you're in fucking jail, how do you propose to get a second opinion and PROVE you're really sick and in need of care

this whole thread is ridiculous beyond belief and you should be ashamed of yourself



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arcadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #67
75. no it isn't
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RoyGBiv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #75
80. Yes it is
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arcadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #80
105. No... It Isn't.
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RoyGBiv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #105
106. Ah yes ...

You want room 12A, just along the corridor.

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arcadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #106
108. Thank you, my good man
What were we talking about again? :P
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RoyGBiv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 12:08 AM
Response to Reply #108
112. No idea ...

:hi:

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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #67
76. Honey, baby-
I've been to jail. I'm not one of those people that gets scared by the TV shows.

As far as I'm concerned if you can not understand irreverence, then it is your loss.

And anyone that can support what the Congress and the President are doing to us should be the one that is ashamed.

(Oh yeah, I had two teeth taken out in jail, they did a great job.)
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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #76
87. with your outlook i'm not surprised you lost two teeth to jail
i'm a little surprised it wasn't more, to be honest

there's irreverence and there's dishonesty, and i'm tired of humoring dishonesty
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #87
91. Funny.
The dentist took them because I had a tooth ache.

Have a nice day now.
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TicketyBoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #91
103. My dentist
saves my tooth when I have a toothache. He fills it.

The only teeth I've had extracted were wisdom teeth because there wasn't room in my mouth for them. But maybe it was your wisdom teeth that were bothering you? If not, you received substandard care, at least in my experience.
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #103
107. Actually, it was my wisdom teeth.
They were impacted. It wasn't like anyone brought me soup or anything, but I had a problem and they took care of it.

Out in the real world the only choice a person without any insurance has when they have a toothache is pain or a free clinic. The clinic here in Stockton, armpit of the world? You have to show up Monday morning at 3am just to stand in line. At 7am they give out tickets based on your need and pain level. Lucky people get to be seen that day. The do not fill, they only extract.

It's a tough old world out here buddy.
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TicketyBoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 04:22 AM
Response to Reply #107
117. You're a bit luckier than I was, in one way.
When my first wisdom tooth became impacted, it was so badly infected that I had to take antibiotics for two weeks before they could pull it.

Out in the real world the only choice a person without any insurance has when they have a toothache is pain or a free clinic.


Actually, you can pay to go to a dentist. That's what I did. My dentist will take payments. Most will. Nobody should have to go without dental care. Find a compassionate dentist who is willing to take payments.

I wouldn't give up any tooth (except my wisdom teeth, which were just pains-in-the-mouth) unless there was no way of saving it.
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1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:54 PM
Response to Original message
69. i don't know, bud. i'm pretty sure those "3 meals" and "healthcare" are not what you think they are.
as for the "something constructive to do" i guess i will leave that to your own interpretation...
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 10:02 PM
Response to Original message
79. Food, shelter, health care. I'm so there.
Have no health care now. Do eat most days. Likely to lose my shelter soon. No downside for me. Will miss my husband but I'm sure they have visiting hours. And he would be relieved of the stress of worrying how we keep me alive til I can have Medicare.
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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #79
86. actually don't be too sure, not all states do have marital, um, visits
in many states the reality is that if you go to jail, you will lose yr husband

conjugal visits are not guaranteed, hell, for that matter neither is the three meals a day

"no downside for me" -- really? being able to touch and hold your spouse is worth...nothing...to you? your freedom is worth...nothing...to you?

the guy who started this post had "two teeth removed in jail," you can be pretty sure they were removed by somebody's fist making contact with his mouth, stick angry people together in a small space and fights do happen

there is plenty of downside, romanticizing jail is just not right
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1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #86
92. heh. i think she is just *fuckin wit choo*. but i could be wrong...
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 01:45 AM
Response to Reply #86
116. You know, we're a bit...um...older. Conversation suffices for us
I rarely see 3 meals in a day, now. One or 2 and I'll survive. Freedom is a little restricted by poverty, too.
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Historic NY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 10:09 PM
Response to Original message
83. umm.... Bubba is a big guy.
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #83
167. I'm a big fucking guy too. He'll know I showed up.
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calico1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 10:10 PM
Response to Original message
85. Not only that...
but no more mortgage payments either.

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varelse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 10:16 PM
Response to Original message
88. I'm going to stay employed and free as long as I can
My state's overcrowded, bloated prison system can't afford to house everyone who can't afford this mandate.
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #88
95. Exactly. nt
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varelse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #95
99. Hehe
I hadn't really looked at it that way :D
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #99
102. Civil disobedience knows many faces and forms. nt
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waiting for hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 10:22 PM
Response to Original message
89. K&R
Nice logic there Rocky - :thumbsup:
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 10:26 PM
Response to Reply #89
93. I'm at heart a pretty simple guy.
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cowcommander Donating Member (679 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 10:22 PM
Response to Original message
90. No thanks
Considering how they like raping weak guys there, I'd be someone's bitch in prison. I'd rather be dead! :(
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 10:38 PM
Response to Original message
96. I'm with you.
But I can afford good lawyers. I don't mind being the sacrificial lamb.
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MSchreader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 10:42 PM
Response to Original message
98. If I have to go to the federal pen, so be it, but...
I'd rather organize an active resistance against this barbaric class warfare.

Now, who's with me on that?
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WolverineDG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 10:53 PM
Response to Original message
100. You get free health care in jail!
three hots & a cot, plus tv, too.

dg
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 12:01 AM
Response to Original message
110. I think there will be massive civil disobedience if this goes through
At least I hope that people don't accept it and end up struggling.
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MilesColtrane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 12:14 AM
Response to Original message
113. You may not get the chance for civil disobedience unless you're self employed.
Since the fine for not having insurance will likely be a tax penalty, refusal to pay would lead to the IRS garnishing your wages.

If you work for someone other than yourself, and push comes to shove, the government will get its cut before you ever see your paycheck.
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 12:28 AM
Response to Reply #113
114. I work for myself.
So I get to be one of the first to go.
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MilesColtrane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 12:37 AM
Response to Reply #114
115. Remember to wear flip flops in the shower.
That MRSA is a bitch.
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1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 05:32 AM
Response to Reply #115
119. ummm... i think that is "soap on a rope"...
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ZombieHorde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 05:34 AM
Response to Original message
120. I believe I will qualify for medicaid since I make under $29,000,
so I will not be going to jail.
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Le Taz Hot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 10:24 AM
Response to Original message
122. Only a bad deal
if they send you to Fresno.
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 10:28 AM
Response to Original message
123. spare us the breathless melodrama. no one will throw you in fucking jail.
:rofl:
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #123
141. So if you don't get dramatic over 45,000 people a year dying,
tell me, what do you get dramatic about? Maybe when a million a year die? Two million?
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #141
146. i'm addressing your tantrum, you're just piling melodrama on top of melodrama.
Edited on Thu Dec-17-09 12:16 PM by dionysus
posture all you want, i garauntee you're not going to purposefully attempt to get thrown in prison.

just another tantrum on a message board.
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monmouth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 10:43 AM
Response to Original message
125. I really hate bologna..but...will Keith be with us? Could be fun....n/t
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kctim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 10:46 AM
Response to Original message
127. Nothing new
many people have been doing that with the income tax for a while now. Not sure they would say its not a bad deal though.
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 10:46 AM
Response to Original message
128. That's the prevailing option at this point.
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Iggo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 10:47 AM
Response to Original message
129. Been there.
Edited on Thu Dec-17-09 10:47 AM by Iggo
I'll pass.
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walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 10:48 AM
Response to Original message
131. Fuck that. I'll see those motherfuckers in court..
Come and get me...
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 10:49 AM
Response to Original message
132. I am claustrophobic
:-(
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ProdigalJunkMail Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 10:51 AM
Response to Original message
133. everytime i see this i can't help but think of Bluto in Animal House
Bluto: Over? Did you say "over"? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!
Otter: Germans?
Boon: Forget it, he's rolling.
Bluto: And it ain't over now. 'Cause when the goin' gets tough...

Bluto: the tough get goin'! Who's with me? Let's go!
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Jamastiene Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 10:53 AM
Response to Original message
134. Proponents of the mandate against the poor and lower middle class
Edited on Thu Dec-17-09 10:56 AM by Jamastiene
are severely disadvantaged here.

By being too financially stable (out of touch) to be able to relate to our situation in life, they TOTALLY MISCALCULATED just how much this is going to cost them in the long run.

They cannot seem to grasp the simple fact that people who have nothing...have nothing to lose.

They will pay way more to build the prisons, hire staff, run the electricity and water for the prisons, clothe us, feed us, and provide FREE (to us) medical care.

The ones of us who do try to buy the mandated insurance will go homeless and end up cluttering up the streets.

So, while they pay more for those of us who go to prison, they will have to step over homeless people everywhere they go too.

Cities who have adopted laws that imprison homeless people will fill up even more prisons.

There will be more prisons than churches, banks, and country clubs in this country at that rate.

All of this is going to cost WAY WAY WAY more than it would have to just offer universal health care.

They won't like that very much, but by then, it will be too late to do anything about it.

So, if you go to jail for not letting them force you to buy overpriced insurance from the greedy scumbags who are sucking this country dry like rabid leeches and controlling Congre$$' every move, I'll be in jail too. :fistbump:

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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #134
144. We'll keep a bunk warm for you!
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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 10:55 AM
Response to Original message
136. We were right about Edwards and Obama, Rocky.
Edwards' own personal failings (even though for Repugs serial adulteries and diaper-wearing are NEVER reasons to leave politics) made that impossible, but now it's crystal clear we were right to support him as the only candidate that even remotely sounded like he might help us and our nation.

Now, as milquetoast Obama, who as with nearly all Democrats (except Edwards and a handful of others), is too weak to say "boo" to the Repugs but turns with savage glee at the prospect of beating up on a Democrat like Dean.

Sorry to bust in on your health care thread, but I haven't talked to you since well before the election, and I just thought you should know.

Here we are back at the beginning, and our first impression of Obama the Corporate Milquetoast was correct.

He do talk purty, though, don't he?
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 11:36 AM
Original message
I remember telling everyone I could talk to in Iowa
that I liked Obama, but I was very concerned about his ties to Goldman Sachs, but no one wanted to listen.

Too late for them to listen now, isn't it?
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #136
166. Hear! Hear!
:thumbsup:

I thought Edwards had the only workable health plan. I wonder though if he would have been able to make Congress do what he wants.
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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #166
178. We have never seen a President attempt to bust through the phony RW Conventional Wisdom of the
Edited on Fri Dec-18-09 01:52 PM by tom_paine
Corporate M$M.

Obama has barely...JUST barely...even attempted to do that with his early talk of Cable TV News Blather and challengings of Fox "News". But he quickly gave up and came nowhere near the bluntness of speech required to illuminate the problem. Doing so would have risked him MAJOR corporate support on many levels.

Edwards was doing just that, so they turned his volume knob down. All they have to do really - out of sight out of mind here in the Empire of TV.

But the question is, had he kept his d*ck in his pants and HAD he become President, and HAD he continued to walk the walk he talked and just spoke plainly and directly to the people, maybe it would be possible to harness public approval against the whole Corporate Structure and it's armies of PR Men and propagandists, their stranglehold on the media and the infantilized National Dialgoue...

Though as I annunciate it, and what an unbelievably uphill battle it would be and how easily the Bushies and the Corporate M$M made mincemeat out of Obama in the shortest possible time even as he was bending over backward and Clinton/DLCing them, I have to wonder if any reality can break through the controlled insanity of The American Hologram that has infantilized a nation and regressed it back to perhaps medieval levels (in some psychological ways that will become evident if things get economically bad - and are already evident in the mainstreaming of absolutist and eliminationist talk).

Could Edwards have done it against THAT? Could any one person?

Welcome to Room 101.
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
142. Maybe we could go to Iraq - after all, our tax dollars are paying for
government-sponsored health care there.
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #142
168. And apparently there's currently less shooting there.
If you take my city and the one 70 miles south of me as an example. Fucking gang warfare on the streets, but "We're spreading Democracy".
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Leftist Agitator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
143. And rape. You'll get a lot of that too.
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #143
149. Party pooper.
Have you ever been to jail?
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Leftist Agitator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #149
176. Jail? Yes. Prison? No.
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Ninga Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 12:05 PM
Response to Original message
145. I'm in!
:hi:
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #145
148. Ninga!!!
It's like the old gang is all getting together to go to jail. Just like old times. :hi:
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stevietheman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 12:18 PM
Response to Original message
147. I wonder if people are already committing crimes just to get the health care in prison. n/t
n/t
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #147
170. Or even just a roof. We've had several people up here go back in
Merely days after getting out.
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MidwestRick Donating Member (604 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 01:47 PM
Response to Original message
153. Who are you...
to say what you can and cannot afford to buy? :sarcasm:
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AngryAmish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 02:25 PM
Response to Original message
158. I was just there - it sucks
Just visiting.
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MuseRider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
164. I will be going
because I get my drugs from Canada and India. I take a med that I need that costs over $10.00 a pill. I need one a day. I have to take it. I can get it from India for $1.00 or less. We could get it here for only a small amount more than that too but the patent has not run out yet and there is no generic available. So, if they do not allow it are they going to throw all of us in jail for that too?

We can't get regular insurance because of pre existing conditions. My guess is that with the conditions we have the cost would be enormous and we would exceed our annual limit very quickly if either of us really begin to suffer from it. Our catastrophic insurance is $30,000.00 deductible but costs us around $18,000.00/year and that is much much less that we were quoted for the regular type of health insurance. I hope catastrophic counts, I am assuming it does. If not we will be joining you.
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MSchreader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
169. For your edification


Other sizes of this graphic are available, and t-shirts are on sale in the lobby.
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #169
174. That's a keeper.
Thanks so much!
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MSchreader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #174
175. You're welcome
If you want a larger size, let me know.
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MSchreader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 03:49 PM
Response to Original message
171. K&R
:kick:

This needs to stay on the first page.
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Waiting For Everyman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 04:03 PM
Response to Original message
173. + 1
Edited on Thu Dec-17-09 04:04 PM by Waiting For Everyman
Said it elsewhere earlier, but just to add here too.
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BR_Parkway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 07:06 PM
Response to Original message
177. It's the "Default Public Option"
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