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FEINGOLD: Don't Blame Lieberman-Blame Obama-The Bill Is What "The President Wanted In The 1st Place"

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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:19 AM
Original message
FEINGOLD: Don't Blame Lieberman-Blame Obama-The Bill Is What "The President Wanted In The 1st Place"
Edited on Wed Dec-16-09 09:33 AM by kpete
"This bill appears to be legislation that the president wanted in the first place, so I dont think focusing it on Lieberman really hits the truth," said Feingold.

more:
http://www.salon.com/news/healthcare_reform/index.html?...
http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/72375-lieberman-ex...
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:29 AM
Response to Original message
1. that`s why i like russ....he`s not afraid to tell the truth
Edited on Wed Dec-16-09 09:30 AM by madrchsod
if obama did`t want this bill he would have told reid to kill it. this is another hillary and bill clinton failure.
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hayu_lol Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #1
15. Try really hard not to blame Bill and Hillary...
for this poor excuse of a bill. Reid wouldn't kill an alligator even if it ate his feet.
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LaydeeBug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #15
101. +1. This is OBAMA'S Bill, The primaries are over. nt
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leftynyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #1
24. Blaming Bill and Hillary
is the lamest thing I've heard all week - and that's saying a lot.
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MessiahRp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #24
75. I'm not trying to put words in the poster's mouth but I think they meant
a failure similar to the 1990's Bill and Hillary HCR failure.

That's what I got out of it anyway.

And BTW, I think this is worse. We owned Congress and our party sold us out to corporations. We're far bigger losers this time around.

We didn't just lose a HC debate this time... we lost our party's soul.

Rp
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leftynyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #75
80. This is way worse
Every progressive worked their tail off to make sure of a 60 seat Senate and for what? I was wondering why Pres Obama was not speaking out forcefully on a pubic option and Feingold finally answered that by saying he never wanted it. Our leaders in the senate are spineless and reward a snake like Lieberman who will only continue to stab liberals in the back.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 08:30 PM
Response to Reply #80
92. You didn't get a 60 seat Senate
Lieberman counts in the 60.
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MessiahRp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #92
105. In all honesty we never needed 60.
But The Corporacrats had no intention of fighting for us anyway. If they did, they would make the Republicans filibuster until they were blue in the face and get the right health care reform passed, rather than the piece of shit on the table now.

Rp
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earcandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #75
111. Yep Nailed it.... wanna hear some nice music?
Crashing Into The Future

there are a few ideas in these melodies that might help on the inspiration side or the
motivation side of these HUGE problems we are suddenly awakening to and don't have time to
muse over and must act constantly and intentionally until these messes are fixed and we are
back to zero stress again.

I love soul and especially the American Soul. It helped me to pursue the arts and sciences and to grow strong.

I even walked on fire in the nineties I was so committed to the common good.

I hope you enjoy the album and will pass it around. It is free until we release it in a couple of weeks.

You need the flash player and best heard on earphones, but now that it is mastered, should be okay straight up.

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Joe Bacon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 03:22 AM
Response to Reply #1
117. Then Russ should vote against cloture.
Bernie has taken this stand. Will Russ?
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Truth2Tell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #117
134. Russ didn't say he doesn't support the bill,
he just said it's a bill Obama has supported from day one.
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iamjoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 07:28 AM
Response to Reply #1
120. Me, I'm Angry At Senator Feingold
Here we have a man who is a true progressive in the Democratic party, but knows how (and more importantly, when) to be bi-partisan. Here we have a man not afraid to take a stand against something popular (Patriot Act, IWR) to do what he believes is right. Here we have a man who took steps to reduce corruption in politics. Here we have a man who actually called for the censure of President Bush and the wiretapping program.

I wish Russ Feingold had run for President. He's not afraid to do the right thing and speak the truth as a Senator, but I don't know why he didn't try for the White House

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Midwestern Democrat Donating Member (238 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #120
126. Feingold didn't run for the same reason a lot of Democrats didn't run -
they knew with the primary being a Hillary vs. Obama contest from day one that it was a waste of time. It would have been great to have had a highly competitive primary in 2008 with several candidates making their cases to the voters but with Hillary entering the race with at least 40% of the Democratic primary vote guaranteed - it just wasn't possible.
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Phoebe Loosinhouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:31 AM
Response to Original message
2. WOW! Not that a lot of people didn't suspect this in the first place.
I'm speechless. He's privy to all the inside scoop discussed at caucuses, etc. I'm sure he remembers Rahm telling all the Progressives to STFU.
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timeforpeace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #2
70. Been wondering how long they would carry his water AND lose political capital as well. As the doctor
said to my mom when I was born, "this could get ugly."
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timeforpeace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #70
72. R&K.
Edited on Wed Dec-16-09 02:39 PM by timeforpeace
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Threedifferentones Donating Member (820 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #2
88. Speechless?
Edited on Wed Dec-16-09 07:48 PM by Threedifferentones
I almost cried when Obama got elected, but partly because I knew that would be his greatest moment: proof that racism in America has shrunk dramatically, he is a symbol we can all be proud of.

The sad fact of the matter is you do not get elected president in the USA if you really plan on changing its wealth structure. Talk all you want about the money he got from ordinary people, the fix was in the moment Obama was a candidate that rich interests like health insurance could "donate" to and lobby.
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #88
99. Exactly right, Threedifferentones. nt
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Eric Condon Donating Member (761 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #88
103. Exactly. We don't have a black man in the White House today because of social progress.
We have a black man in the White House for the same reason we've had every white man in the White House for the last several years - TPTB found a person who'd play the game.
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Swede Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:33 AM
Response to Original message
3. Why is he defending Joe?
direct quote here from him

In an interview with the New York Times, Sen. Joe Lieberman (I-Conn.) revealed Tuesday that he decided to oppose a Medicare buy-in in part because liberals like Rep. Anthony Weiner (D-N.Y.) liked it too much.

n the interview, Mr. Lieberman said that he grew apprehensive when a formal proposal began to take shape. <...>

And he said he was particularly troubled by the overly enthusiastic reaction to the proposal by some liberals, including Representative Anthony Weiner, Democrat of New York, who champions a fully government-run health care system.

"Congressman Weiner made a comment that Medicare-buy in is better than a public option, it's the beginning of a road to single-payer," Mr. Lieberman said. "Jacob Hacker, who's a Yale professor who is actually the man who created the public option, said, 'This is a dream. This is better than a public option. This is a giant step.'"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/15/lieberman-libe...
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freddie mertz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #3
28. He's not. He's pointing past Joe to the "actual" culprit.
The president.
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #3
95. It doesn't matter who's name you put on the receiving end of this-the president
is the leader here.
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #3
106. Because Pres Obama must take responsibility for what is passed. He didnt fight for us one bit.
Easy to blame the asshat Joe but the president has final responsibility for what he signs.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:39 AM
Response to Original message
4. It's an auction. Would you bid the max on your opening bid?
I wouldn't.

Of course, we all could just get in a hissy and walk away and let HCInsCo have it for the lowest bid.
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chimpymustgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #4
43. Are you still cheering Obama's 11 dimensional chess moves?
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OnyxCollie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 02:50 AM
Response to Reply #43
115. If it could be harvested,
The energy from all that spinning could power a small village.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:41 AM
Response to Original message
5. now this I already knew
people keep claiming this President is "caving" in... no he isn't. This is what he wants!
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. +1.nt
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. Well then, he's too stupid to get it, because he just revealed his hand on the first round.
Ever play poker?

Ever participate in HIGH stakes negotiations?
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Marr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #8
54. How is this "revealing his hand in the first round"?
Obama has been careful to publicly distance himself from all this, acting like it was all about Congress. The party's leadership has gone out of it's way to make it appear that Lieberman is the responsible party. Lieberman is the one that can weather the fallout, since his support is largely Republican anyway, of course.

Obama hasn't revealed his hand at all-- at least, he doesn't *think* he has. He and his administration seem to think it's still 1995. Feingold just pointed out that the truth is fairly obvious to anyone willing to look; the Democratic leadership, which certainly includes Obama, is getting what they want here. If they wanted something else, they could've had it.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #5
10. So, you "know" that. Do you KNOW what attorneys actually do?
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kenny blankenship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:49 AM
Response to Original message
7. So you're saying he baldfaced lied to America in his campaign?
Because in his campaign he was AGAINST mandates and FOR a govt. run, non-profit public option.

If this legislation was really what he wanted in the first place and he had told us about his true feelings I would never have voted for him, much less donated to him.
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freddie mertz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. We can only conclude that he lied, or else doesn't care about basic promises
This president looks worse by the hour.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. You can "only" conclude that if you have already decided THAT and choose to remain ignorant of
the process.
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freddie mertz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. I am not ignorant of the process. I listen and remember...
And we got punk'd on the public option last summer.

So Lieberman KNEW he could get that dropped, even after progressive pressure managed to bring it back to life DESPITE the president's walking away from his promise.

That is just plain fact.
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kenny blankenship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #9
22. Before I conclude anything, I want to hear him explain the difference
between his campaign position and the position that he's been working for as President, which seems to me to be nearly the mirror opposite of what he promised he would work for.

He's entitled to make his defense, and as a voter and donor I'm entitled to ask for it.
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freddie mertz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #22
26. We can ask, but I don't really expect an answer.
The best answer WE can give is to hold him accountable, withdraw our political and financial support, and hope that someone like Dean steps forward as a primary challenger, which will FORCE him to answer these questions.
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Segami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #7
13. Sounds like an accurate observation that many would agree with. Same old say anything just to steal
away another vote. So much for CHANGE.
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freddie mertz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #13
17. Just another politician who came up with some good lines and disposable "promises"
Nothing new here.

No change at all.
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Segami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #17
21. Torn right out of the Republican political play book. They probably share the SAME library card.
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FiveGoodMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #21
85. They probably share the same advisers.
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bkohatlanta Donating Member (63 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #17
109. And Defends John Yoo
I wish there was something I liked about him: everything he does is a disappointment.
I will fight for real health care reform. Which means ignoring vicious, greedy Joe Lieberman. I've read that between 50,000 and 100,000 people choose to die rather than destroy their families with debt. Joe Lieberman is a mass murderer, just like his Republican cronies.
I will fight against John Yoo's quest for immunity and violations of the Geneva and Hague Conventions. I want Rios Montt prosecuted for the 250,000 Catholic Mayan Indians he exterminated.
I want usury laws which banned interest rates above 21% like we had for half a century.
I want the Vice Principal at Fayetteville High School who protected Bullies who constantly beat up Billy Wolfe prosecuted for the torture of children. After one bully beat Billy up, ripping his cheek open by driving his braces through his face with a sucker punch. The Vice Principal defended the bullies by saying "boys will be boys". Sending a kid to the hospital is not "boys will be boys"; it is TORTURE!
I want Wall Street Bonuses Taxed at the same rate real people pay and no deductions.
I campaigned for Hilary and I'm prouder of that now than I was then.
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #7
23. Or perhaps Feingold is lying
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freddie mertz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #23
27. Unlikely. Whatever you think of Russ, he is a pretty straightforward guy.
He is speculating, of course. But I have a feeling that as we learn more about this, he will be shown to be basically right.
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timeforpeace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #27
71. Uh oh. Freddie wars.
Edited on Wed Dec-16-09 02:35 PM by timeforpeace
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #23
49. yeah...that's th' ticket...why don't you write an OP on this idea and see how it flies.
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #7
39. Errr, he was caught red handed lieing about NAFTA, for one.
:hi:
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #7
81. If you're looking for a motive for him to lie, you just tripped over it.
"If this legislation was really what he wanted in the first place and he had told us about his true feelings I would never have voted for him, much less donated to him."

Bing, as they say, Go.
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 10:05 AM
Response to Original message
12. A Public Option and Medicare expansion can be pursued through a separate bill via Reconciliation
Both of those reforms have a positive effect on the budget and therefor qualify for that procedure, which just takes 50 votes plus Biden in the Senate to pass.

The rest of the reforms can stay in the current legislation. If some so called moderate threatens not to vote for cloture on the current Senate Bill even with the P.O. and Medicare expansion taken out, unless Democrats promise NOT to use Reconciliation to get an expanded public plan put in place, we can threaten right back. Two sides can play Hard Ball. If they filibuster the private industry reforms, tell 'em Reconciliation will open Medicare to those 50 or older, not 55 like it was in the compromise. And the public option will become Medicare +5 available to all citizens, not the weak watered down version that only a couple of million of Americans could have bought at higher prices than the private plans.

If Obama wants a Public Option he has the tools needed to fight for it. If he doesn't fight for it then it is fair to conclude that he doesn't want it very badly if at all.
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #12
38. Right. And we're *still* working on those NAFTA "side agreements".
:rofl:
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #38
46. We are on the same page here
It's a lack of will, not the means, that stands in the way. I advocate announcing today that the government role in health care will be expanded by pursuing budget related legislation via reconciliation. The failure to do so is a clear political statement in my opinion.
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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #38
108. I've Thought About NAFTA Every Time I Heard ANYONE Say...
This is just a start, we can work on it later!! LIKE WHEN... what about NAFTA, I'm still waiting!

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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #12
58. Tom, you are clinging to a false hope. You are going to really be let down.
None other than Tom Harkin said last night that he would vote for the bill as it is. He recoiled at the suggestion of reconciliation.

What about trying for a public option next year, he was asked. He responded (and this was really sad) that the Senate had too much on its plate already for next year to consider that.

Tom Rinaldo, face it, we were screwed.

Senator Feingold boldly said what I knew in the deep of my gut already: this is the bill that Obama always wanted from the beginning. It's clear that it was.
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #58
61. I'm not clinging to that hope
What I am doing is rejecting any argument that the Democrats can't do any better than what we are getting because of mean old Joe Lieberman. We have the tools available to get what was always promised, if they are not used that is a choice being made, failure is not unavoidable and Democrats do not have their hands tied because of a filibuster threat.

The Democratic Party is making a calculation that they will not pay a severe price for caving on this and they will soon find out that they entered the wrong numbers into their calculater. Maybe they will figure it out before this session of Congress is over, but I am certainly not counting on that.
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bighart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #61
63. It is becoming increasingly apparent that what the Dems can do
is not really relevant, the real question is what they WILL do, and this appears to be the best effort they are willing to put forward.
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cry baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #12
60. This is what I'm hoping for...I may be disappointed, but I'm an optimist, like you, Tom.
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natrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #12
86. so that would require first passing the bill, and then trusting these crooks to fix it? good plan
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 07:38 AM
Response to Reply #86
122. Agree...how many times have we waited for the "fix" to the bad bills we've
had to put up with? The fix never comes because we are told it takes 60 Votes...60 Votes...60 Votes. The blame is always passed to either Repugs or those Votes. Heard it too many times to believe it, anymore.
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democracy1st Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 10:09 AM
Response to Original message
16. K & R
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undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 10:09 AM
Response to Original message
18. So as my senator I hope you will vote no.
No public option = NO.
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 10:11 AM
Response to Original message
19. Feingold is obviously a DLC Blue Dog DINO corporatist enabler sell-out!!!
;)
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rudy23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 10:12 AM
Response to Original message
20. Absoutely, Russ. We elected the Lieberman wing of the party into power.
It's time we face up to it.
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MNDemNY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 10:26 AM
Response to Original message
25. Sure seems that way. Joe is just dancing with the one that brung him!!!
Slick Willy gots nuttin' on this guy.
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #25
29. Who, exactly 'brung him?'
:shrug:
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MNDemNY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #29
30. He retained his seat , and his chair , largely on the support of...wait for it....
Edited on Wed Dec-16-09 10:38 AM by MNDemNY
Barack Obama.( with Rahm leading the charge.) How soon you forget.
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #30
31. Has him keeping that chairmanship made it any easier for him to filibuster HCR?
:shrug:
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MNDemNY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #31
32. Apparently it has.
Obama has stated that this is the bill he was looking for (contains ALL of the criteria) Joe is seeing his "vision" through.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #29
37. holy Joe was Sen. Obama's mentor during his short term
yep.
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xiamiam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 10:43 AM
Response to Original message
33. russ calling obama out...bold..nt
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PeaceNikki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #33
89. It certainly isn't the first time.
He did with FISA during the campaign and about the war escalation as well. I'm sure there are others.
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Vinnie From Indy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 10:54 AM
Response to Original message
34. Feingold is right!
Obama is getting exactly what he wanted. It explains why he was such an adamant supporter of a public option. He knew he would never see one in a bill that hit his desk. The HCR has been a long play with all playing their parts. Joe is just in Act III acting to shield Democrats from their own voters.
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IsItJustMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #34
102. I think you are right. A big game, lots of posturing, and in the end, once again, the American
people get screwed over for the sacred corporate interests. I don't think Obama will worry about it too much though. These corporate interestes will make sure he will be president again, if they deem fit.

They have the money and the media in their pockets. With that, they control the message and thus populus of this country.
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
35. Ding, ding, ding!!!!
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 11:01 AM
Response to Original message
36. folks here who have said this
. . . are accused of hating the president and the like. This is just a sad state of affairs.
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 11:05 AM
Response to Original message
40. I remember Russ saying what a good president McCain would make, too.
Edited on Wed Dec-16-09 11:06 AM by TwilightGardener
He's not all that and a bag of chips--he's got his own agenda and motives.
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butterfly77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 11:07 AM
Response to Original message
41. All of these senators are full of it..
they are enabling lieberman.
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TornadoTN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #41
45. Yes, and so is this President
Pains me to say it, after all of the time, money and effort I put into 2008.
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AzDar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 11:08 AM
Response to Original message
42. This is like a fucking kick in the gut.
Ahd thank you, Senator Feingold.
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Hidden Stillness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 11:17 AM
Response to Original message
44. Did You Really Need Somebody Else to Tell You This?
I posted this on a thread yesterday, and it killed the thread; nobody wants to admit it. They want to blame Lieberman (or Stupak) alone, as if things somehow pass because of one or two people and not the whole group, poisoned. Obama has exhibited absolutely no leadership qualities at all since taking office, has been meeting with insurance and pharmaceutical executives and made secret, Cheney-like deals with them many times while freezing the non-rich people out--and employs as a "health bill" liason the mutiple-industry lobbyist Tom Daschle--hired, kept and defends Geithner, Summers, Bernancke, etc.; Obama kept the flood of unrestricted money flowing to Wall St. speculators and scam inventors who should be in prison, yet does nothing for rising unemployment, foreclosures and bankruptcies except lie about the figures.

You could have known that something was really wrong as soon as Obama as a candidate stopped criticizing Hillary Clinton's "you can have exactly the same plan we in Congress have," (rather than straightforward single-payer), and then adopted that very jargon. Something was wrong when Obama started the consultant-jargon line "I would support single-payer if we were starting from scratch" (which raises the question, Well then why don't you, you asshole? Who is stopping you?).

They manage to get extended bailouts for Wall St. speculators, they are threatening to cut taxes for corporations, (and pay off the debt how? guess), and they have not created jobs programs, not given the previously automatic cost-of-living increase for Social Security, and now they put no effort at all toward influencing Congress on any stage of the "health care" (forced commercial insurance ) bill, not even supporting the great Dorgan re-importation from Canada Amendment. "I believe in the free market," extending NAFTA/CAFTA style agreements and outsourcing jobs, etc., etc., on and on.

Yet again, this is the permanent, unfolding nightmare of the Republican "D"LC corporate lobbyists taking over the Democratic Party. Quit pretending Obama is not one of them!
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xiamiam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #44
47. Time has come for millions of us to get in the streets...March..nt
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NYC_SKP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 11:27 AM
Response to Original message
48. Oh Boy. Multiple Simultaneous Orgasms Day for The "Blame Obama" Crowd.
enjoy.

:popcorn:
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Kansas Wyatt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #48
65. You do know the voices will grow in number don't you?
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #48
66. truth
. . . can be a powerful aphrodisiac.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #48
68. An elegant, cogent rebuttal!
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xultar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
50. I've been saying THE SAME FUCKING THING ALL GODDAMNED WEEK...&
All I got was fucking lip smackin backtalk.
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NYC_SKP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #50
55. .
Not me, I don't think. :P

I've backtalked a few, but I wouldn't do that to you.

As for the bill, wow, this is an emotional roller coaster and it's going to be interesting when it goes to reconciliation.

I'm so confused, the bill's so complex and with so many iterations and amendments since this started, I can't take it anymore.

As stinky as this thing has become, it could get worse.

I'm about to:
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #50
83. Not from me, you didn't.
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 11:30 AM
Response to Original message
51. Maybe it should now be called the "JoeBama" Bill.
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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 11:31 AM
Response to Original message
52. GO Russ!
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Individualist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 11:34 AM
Response to Original message
53. He's right
This has been a DLC dog and pony show from the beginning.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 01:55 PM
Response to Original message
56. kick
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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 02:01 PM
Response to Original message
57. Thank you Senator Feingold. Blaming Lieberman is idiotic.
I thought I was going to be crucified here when I said as much.

It is idiotic to focus your anger at Lieberman. First, he loves it and second, he didn't kill the public option, Obama did.
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Blasphemer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
59. Indeed... the stories of his involvement with the Finance committee were poo-poo'd
When it was reported that he favored the trigger option, we were told not to believe it. This IS the bill he wanted. From the get-go, whatever came out of the Finance Committee is what he intended to sign. He's been was working with Max Baucus since the beginning. The sad thing is that House Democrats are most likely to be the first casualties of the backlash against the Democratic party. The Senate might hold on until 2012.
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Blue_In_AK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 02:15 PM
Response to Original message
62. Sing it, Russ!!
I am so disgusted. It's so sad people were duped into thinking that Obama would bring any real change to people. Everyone had lots of hope, of course (me included), but the change? Not so much. Pretty speeches are meaningless -- as I tried to warn during the primaries. I'd like to say I'm disappointed, but this is pretty much what I feared would happen.

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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 02:19 PM
Response to Original message
64. knr - been saying that since June ...
Edited on Wed Dec-16-09 02:20 PM by slipslidingaway
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

President Obama calls on Karen Ignagni of AHIP to speak on HC reform

Imagine if P. Obama had called upon Dr. Maria Angell to speak at the WH summit instead of Karen Ignagni, members of Congress might be pleading for a public option.


Dr. Marcia Angell not invited to attend and therefore not called upon to speak, Conyers asked that two single-payer advocates be invited to attend....Dr. Quentin Young and Dr. Marcia Angell - his request was denied.

Or imagine if P. Obama just invited several not for profit advocates to the WH summit instead of excluding them, we might have a better deal. IMO this set the tone for Congressional hearing and gave Baucus the cover to exclude SP advocates.

The for profit companies must have felt comfortable knowing the opposition was being silenced by the WH and majority party.


Waxman, video and more ...

'I had been a supporter of single payer, but I decided to follow the lead of Obama and build on employer based health care."

:(

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...





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harun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 02:21 PM
Response to Original message
67. Translation: "Stop electing corporatist pigs if you don't want corporatist law"
Go Russ!
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
69. K&R.
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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
73. So is Russ going to vote against the bill?
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 02:47 PM
Response to Original message
74. K&R
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Individualist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
76. K&R
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ncteechur Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 04:01 PM
Response to Original message
77. Russ is afraid to do anything else, however. Where has he been trying to cajole support from his
senate colleagues? Nowhere. He is bullshit.
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FiveGoodMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 04:54 PM
Response to Original message
78. That's it. Face it, everyone.
2008 was the ultimate sucker punch.

We've been played right out of the game.
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 04:56 PM
Response to Original message
79. How far is this from the bill that Baucus got reamed over?
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lame54 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 06:10 PM
Response to Original message
82. I have enough breath to cell 'em both assholes
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Rectangle Donating Member (437 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 06:14 PM
Response to Original message
84. Sanders/Feingold 2012 !!!! n/t
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Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 07:36 PM
Response to Original message
87. Gawd damn,
The wheels have come off this wagon.
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AndrewP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 08:03 PM
Response to Original message
90. Bingo
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hulka38 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 08:29 PM
Response to Original message
91. What Russ said above is so true.
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #91
96. Yep Obama sold us out to the Pharma and Insurance CO
and the Big Banks

he is Bilderberg material

It is a shame but true
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newblewtoo Donating Member (332 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 07:45 AM
Response to Reply #96
124. Is this "Returning wealth to its
rightful owners"??

With each passing day I become more disappointed in my primary choice. I confess to being one of those who believed someone who had not been corrupted by DC insider politics could make a difference and thought Hillary too toxic. I guess I just wanted to believe or was just plain naive.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 08:31 PM
Response to Original message
93. Is there some mind reading going on here?
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NorthCarolina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 08:50 PM
Response to Original message
94. Well, if nothing else it's good to know exactly where we, the public,
stand in the grand scheme of this Conservative DLC controlled Democratic Party. Looney Liberals are looking pretty damn good to me now. As a side note, Bernie Sander's speech on Single Payer was a historic moment in the US Senate. I, for one, applaud him.

To all of you here on DU who worked so very hard to cheerlead for Obama in the primaries, challenging anyone who suggested Obama might be DLC, that he was only *pretending* to be conservative in the campaign and that he will usher in *progressive change*. Well, all I can say is I hope you really REALLY enjoy YOUR healthcare *reform*.
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Generator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:08 PM
Response to Original message
97. We are back to the usual heros
Feingold and Dean. I have NO IDEA who this Obama guy is. (why did an image of Bernie Maddof just come to mind? LOL) YES. I refuse to give them my funny bone.
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Hawkowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:16 PM
Response to Original message
98. I knew it!!
Blaming Lieberman has to be the biggest red herring since WMD's in Iraq. One senator, without party affiliation is the most powerful man in the world?!?!

Give me a fucking break. Apparently Obama and Reid think Americans are dumber than dirt or as spineless as they are. We shall see.
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:57 PM
Response to Original message
100. Reccomend. nt
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Dinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 10:17 PM
Response to Original message
104. That's Russ, Keepin' It Real
:patriot:
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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 11:21 PM
Response to Original message
107. WOW! Good On You Russ! Glad You Finally Spoke Up! Don't Vote For
the bill is the NEXT MOVE! Bernie Sanders needs to do a "call out" too!

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jwirr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 11:40 PM
Response to Original message
110. In the first place - what would he have had to gain by putting this piece
of s--t in place. He is likely to lose a lot of support when the insurance premiums start going up and the government starts having to pay for those premiums for those who cannot afford them. Sooner or later this is going to cause blow back for the Democratic Party.

I like Feingold but this seems like an insane move on President Obama's part if this is true. Did he just want a flash in the pan presidency? He knows he is part of history being the first black man to be elected president - why would he want to go down in history as a one term failure?
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Andronex Donating Member (378 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 03:15 AM
Response to Reply #110
116. "why"
"why would he want to go down in history as a one term failure?"

He is not a failure, he did the job he was "selected" to do, and he did it so well that most people still don't get it, he drove the progressive movement into the ditch and who knows when and if we can recover. Obama is a made man now, part of the big club, he earned it. By the way history is written by the owners that is why few people know about the Bush family Nazi past.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #116
132. Indeed.
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colsohlibgal Donating Member (670 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 12:02 AM
Response to Original message
112. Tell It Brother Russ
I unsubscribed from barackobama.com this evening, no more emails, and I told them exactly why in no uncertain terms. I've had it and I wish I had those hundreds of hours I worked to elect the guy back. Feingold is right on, it has ended up right where Obama wanted it to end up. To add insult to injury Obama had his minions whip up a scare letter about prescription drugs from (gasp) Canada to beat back the bill to allow drugs to come in from that noted third world country Canada. This of course was to help protect the sweetheart deal he made with Big Pharma some time ago.

Obama had a choice when he took office and he chose quickly with the hiring of Rahm. It's been downhill since. God bless the true progressives in congress like Feingold, we need to work to elect more of them and get blue dogs like Baucus out of there. or we will never get where we need to go.
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deacon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 01:03 AM
Response to Original message
113. If he signs this NON reform bill-he'll be permentally tarnished in the history books.
This is a terrible bill.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 02:27 AM
Response to Original message
114. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
democrank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 05:30 AM
Response to Original message
118. I blame any of them
who helped gut the bill and do the insurance companies` bidding.
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lib_wit_it Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 06:41 AM
Response to Original message
119. up
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 07:36 AM
Response to Original message
121. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Raine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 07:44 AM
Response to Original message
123. I believe it
I had been sadly coming to that conclusion myself.
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avaistheone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 08:35 AM
Response to Original message
125. I am glad Feingold spoke up.
He is one of the few voices I trust in the Senate.
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 10:31 AM
Response to Original message
127. It sounds like Obama is on the way to another huge victory.
:bounce:
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wordpix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 10:36 AM
Response to Original message
128. why don't the senators pass a rule that Majority rules? why do we have to get to 60?
:shrug: I understand the filibuster, but this puts the minority in the driver's seat.
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Nikki Stone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 10:37 AM
Response to Original message
129. And he was too cowardly to take the hit for the bill
He let Baucus and Lieberman take it instead.

Hope and change my ASS!
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democracy1st Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 02:29 PM
Response to Original message
130. kick
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 07:47 AM
Response to Original message
131. kick
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AlinPA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 08:00 PM
Response to Original message
133. Whatever we end up with will still be called Obama's failure by the media, no matter if it is
what liberals want or what the Lieberman type want.
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