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No Passaran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 10:49 PM
Original message
I'm DONE!!! Democratic Party can go to hell for all I care
Letting Joe Lieberman rule and laugh and not do a thing about it. Giving that lying sack of shit chairmanships and leverage while folks are dying. I've been keeping my mouth shut around here. I've been through good and bad on DU since 2001, but this was the most disgusting, hurtful thing I've had to witness in politics. Not even that loss to Bush in '04 had me as disgusted as I am now.

I went without on my military retirement pay so I can donate to DNC and Obama. You can bet your ass I will not donate to DNC or anyone associated with this mess. I might even sit out this election.

Offended? Tough
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 10:50 PM
Response to Original message
1. Not offended
nothing new.
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Naked_Ape Donating Member (89 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #1
123. Not Offended, confused at who you blame though
So you're pissed that Uncle Joe can bring everything to a stop because... there aren't enough Dem senators??? If I understand correctly we are saying here that we got close but didn't get all the way there so we quit.

I see your point. One time, one year, you really participated and 'went without', as so many of us do regularly, and while electing that president somehow failed to elect enough senators to rule by decree, so you quit.

On the other hand, maybe it's time to realize that governing is hard work. Maybe it will take an ongoing commitment, and ongoing organization, and ongoing pressure on our representatives to get what we want. Maybe change in incremental. Maybe we should even elect a couple more senators, what say? Maybe you could start right here: http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2009/Senate/senate_rac...
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onesmallrock Donating Member (31 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #123
126. Yes, Joe should go
gimme a dozen more Kucinich's, then we'll get some "change".
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katkat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #123
162. Naked_Ape
What about that 50 vote reconciliation method? Why the heck do we even need Lieberman if Obama would give up that crazy stupid bipartisanship crap?
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howmad1 Donating Member (959 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #162
196. Maybe Obama enjoys sharing the presidency with Joe.
Sure looks to me like Lieberman finally got his wish: Interim President of the United States. He sure is setting the agenda for this country. Wish Obama would get a clue.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #123
224. Please, stop with the excuses. You're not talking to people who
are new to how the Democrats manage to let Republicans win whether they are in the magority or the minority.

Joe Lieberman should have had his Committee chairs removed as soon as he ran as an Independent and refused to accept his Party's decision to replace him in Conn. Instead, having betrayed the party by his support of Bush, and his leaving the party, he was given a standing ovation on his return to the Senate.

'There are none so blind as though who will not see' except for those with an agenda.

More and more people are now coming to the conclusion that what goes on in DC is nothing but a sham. That Democrats manage to lose on every important issues, cannot be because 'there aren't enough votes'. Republicans never have that problem. And they're not having NOW, are they?

So, don't bother with the same old 'we don't have the votes' garbage we've been listening to for nearly ten years now.

Kick Lieberman off any committes he's one and shut him out of the Dem. Party altogether. And before you come up with 'we can't do that, we NEEED his vote, show me exactly when his vote that we need so badly has ever been delivered!

More insulting than the Dems catering to this traitor is the people who populate threads on Democratic boards thinking they can excuse this behavior with the same old talking points and that the people they are talking to are dumb.

Yes, politics is tough, but not for Joe Lieberman. Let's see the Democrats 'get tough' for a change, or don't they ever get told how 'tough' politics is? That would be a sight to behold.
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99 Percent Sure Donating Member (355 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #123
258. Yes but, according to media, "the White House" commanded
Sad Sack Harry to give in to Uncle Joe so that they could get a bill passed before their break or by Christmas or whatever.

If reports are accurate, then President Obama doesn't support single payer or public option or lowering the Medicare eligibility age to 55. So what exactly does he consider good insurance reform health care reform for the people?

Why is he not listening to voters and health care advocates like Howard Dean and the people who have screamed and hollered first for single payer then for at least a strong public option? Who is this reform going to benefit exactly? I felt we were in danger of getting nothing that resembles HCR for the people when I heard it wsa over 1K pages.

Just passing a bill for the sake of saying he got it passed doesn't cut it. I've not liked some of the moves the president's made since he took office, but I've basically reserved coming down on him hard about it, even when there's a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach amd a little imp in the corners of my mind warning me that he's full of rhetoric and little else. Apparently, others feel the same because the White House comment line has been busy for hours.

I find it difficult to comprehend that one joke of a senator who no longer identifies as affiliated with the Dems, who spoke at the Repug convention against the president, who was for HCR before he was against it -- I find it hard to believe that this one out of approximately 75 lousy human beings senators gets to call the shots on this and the president acquiesces, folding like a cheap suit. I expect it of the worthless Dem senators led by Hapless Harry, and I'm not surprised that Pelosi is weaseling out of a public option, but I don't expect such waffling, to put it charitably, from the president. So many things are rotten in the federal government and I am starting to believe that the stench is emanating strongest from the White House.

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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #258
283. You Said It For Me 99 Percent Sure! Week By Week I've Tried To Hold
my anger in check. Not to say I haven't voiced my disappointment, but I've been pretty nice about it, but now... SORRY OBAMA HAS TO TAKE SOME BLAME, OR A LOT EVEN!!

JMHO!
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shellgame26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #123
321. Well said!
And welcome to DU! :hi:
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DontTreadOnMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 10:51 PM
Response to Original message
2. There are quite a few pissed off DU'ers here
Include me.
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 03:40 AM
Response to Reply #2
48. Me too. This is the saddest day I can remember for being dem and I'm
not a young one.
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peace frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #48
63. Me three
Outrage is too tepid to describe my feelings.
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MissDeeds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #63
120. Same here
It seems that bad news and the disappointments just keep coming. This is not the party I have supported and defended all my life - not by a long shot. And this sure as hell isn't the kind of change I thought we'd get with a "D" in the White House. We've been had.
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Vermontgrown Donating Member (180 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #120
136. Underneath it all
It's seems to me that the dems have been infiltrated by a bunch of repukes.
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #63
210. "Fucking Livid" works for me in times like these. nt
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Bryn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #48
320. Ditto!
I am sad about what dem party has done. I am not a young one neither. What a mess!

:(
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WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #2
104. I have been carrying Obama's water here for weeks
and now I'm done.
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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #104
286. WOW! WeDidIt... I KNOW How You Have Been In There For Obama!
I've seen post after post, argument after argument, over and over from you! You just said one of the BIGGEST MOUTHFULS of almost anybody!

Only thing I can say is that I KNOW how you feel, I just have been feeling it longer!

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parasearchers Donating Member (264 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #2
129. I cannot believe how pissed and betrayed I feel.
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Tansy_Gold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 10:51 PM
Response to Original message
3. I'm with you.
:hug:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 10:52 PM
Response to Original message
4. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 10:52 PM
Response to Original message
5. Not offended at all.
I expected the GOP to give the house away to corporations.

I did not expect a Democratic President and a Democratic Congress to give nearly $1 Trillion to bank criminals and Wall Street crooks.

I did not expect a Democratic President and a Democratic Congress to force every American to have to purchase from a corporation their healthcare.

Offended? No Passaran, I'm not offended. I agree with you. Completely.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 04:13 AM
Response to Reply #5
50. When your enemy kicks you in the shins, it hurts but you expected it.
When you work your butt off for some people, and they get into office, and immediately sell out to Wall Street, and only offer continual lip service as far as getting to the gist of real reform,

IT MAKES YOU REALIZE YOU'VE BEEN CHUMPED

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chimpymustgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 06:35 AM
Response to Reply #50
58. We got seriously PUNK'D.
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 08:32 AM
Response to Reply #5
74. +1
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 08:32 AM
Response to Reply #5
75. +1
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 08:32 AM
Response to Reply #5
76. +1
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #5
158. Add me to that list as well...
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arcadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 10:53 PM
Response to Original message
6. I knew Obama was goning to be a Clinton redux.
I wasn't expecting great things from Obama.
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styersc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. At least Clinton put his weight behind a Healthcare plan and let it
get an up or down vote, for better or worse. Obama, Reid and Pelosi think that they will feed us slop and thank them for the lobster. Screw them!!!!!
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regnaD kciN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 04:15 AM
Response to Reply #11
51. Actually, Clinton failed to even get a vote on his proposal...
...which, by the way, wasn't all that different from what looks set to pass now.

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goldcanyonaz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 07:28 AM
Response to Reply #51
62. Yes, but the Dems this time around were elected to pass it.
The Clintons pioneered it, but the people were too stupid back then to listen.

They listened this time around and we're in the same boat as last time.

Now with the 2010 elections fast approaching they're all fearing reelection.

Can't anyone ever do what they were elected to do?

*sigh*
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DWilliamsamh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #11
250. Your memory is flawed...
There was no vote on the Clinton proposal. That's one of the reasons Obama didn't sent a comprehensive proposal to congress to be converted into a bill. He screwed the pooch on how this should have been played even under his strategy - but there is no denying he got further down the road of Health Care reform than President Clinton. NOT NEAR FAR ENOUGH, but further.
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ProgressOnTheMove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #250
314. Yes, Pres. Obama is taking heat for trying it a different way that so far got results. The only
Edited on Tue Dec-15-09 10:15 PM by ProgressOnTheMove
thing that could be done more is constituents pushing Senators the right way. Than giving Pres. Obama all the heat who has used a sensible approach.
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DWilliamsamh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #314
327. I think I agree...but frankly I'm not exactly sure what point you are making....(n/t)
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LooseWilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #11
262. To be fair, Pelosi at least showed some spine and kept a public option in the House bill
It was kind of a piece of shit public option, and they let that sack of shit Stupak attach his amendment... but still- there was still a public option. It was at least better than nothing.

The Senate, on the other hand, and the WH rumored "strategy"... I see nothing but a burning bag of dogshit.
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whirlygigspin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #6
17. why not elect McCain now?
is there any fuggin difference in the result???

I'm about ready to puke on my computer.

I hope Dean puts the stake through the heart of this monster, if that's what it takes, fuck it.

A trillion dollar gift to insurance companies, merry xmas.

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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 07:20 AM
Response to Reply #6
61. The Clinton years were pretty good for most Americans
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 08:06 AM
Response to Reply #61
65. The Clinton years:
The crimes of NAFTA and the repeal of Glass-Steagall were covered up by the dot.com bubble and the Monica Lewinsky affair. They were not "pretty good." We were just fooled into believing they were "pretty good."
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #65
105. Low unemployment and falling crime rates is nothing to sneeze at
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pundaint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #105
127. Things were better, but the direction to now had been set
It takes a while to bring a super power to it's knees.. Clinton knocked out plenty of the underpinnings. He made popular the goal of winning over forwarding an agenda. He epitomizes style over substance, and our screwed up Congressional delegation is the result of building coalitions for power rather than action. My impression is that Wal-mart was still advertising it's american content when Clinton took office.

How do we protect ourselves from bullshitters like Clinton and Obama? I don't know, but the first step is to recognize we've been had, and believe it. I believe it, and now I'm prepared to vote against all my incumbents in the primaries if possible, but in the general for sure. If the Democrats won't help me get a better candidate in the primary, I'll vote Republican just to encourage other Democrats to run next time.

The Democratic Party is as sold out as Congress is. Look how they mobilized to get Lieberman back even after he had lost his primary. Don't blame Connecticut Democrats for Joe, it was Clinton and the DNC.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #105
165. Both are characteristics of a "Bubble" in the inflation phase.
*
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cui bono Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #105
318. But it's high uemployment and recession now due in part to Clinton.
Edited on Tue Dec-15-09 10:32 PM by cui bono
NAFTA, Glass-Steagall. He continued what Reagan started. And now Obama continues what BushCo started.

Same old, same old.

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katkat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #65
164. NAFTA - the beginning of the end for the US. worker, Thanks, Clinton n/t
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whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #65
242. It was supposed to be a "great economy" but
only the top 20% of Americans benefitted economically....The lower 80% didn't get squat.
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Slit Skirt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #65
306. i totally agree with you...clinton screwed us too
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arcadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #61
159. They weren't good for your average Iraqi.
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frylock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #61
308. the tech bubble was good for the clinton years..
right place, right time.
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harun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #6
98. At least Clinton trimmed military spending.
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Lasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #98
170. Poppy cut military spending more in his 4 years than Clinton did in 8.
Cheney, as Secretary of Defense, cited the post-USSR 'peace dividend'. It is commonly believed that only Clinton cut military spending, a misperception spread far a wide by those who think such spending cuts are a bad thing.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

But Clinton did cut military spending as you say; just not nearly enough.
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blue97keet Donating Member (390 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #6
148. Yes, as soon as he appointed Summers and Geithner
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needja Donating Member (5 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #6
296. I WAS!
Now I'm really disappointed and for me that means I'm really PISSED!!!!! Those ass wipe million dollar bonus CEO's walking away with blood on their hands. We really had a chance here....Obama should have reeled in those idiots during Spring break at the Town Hall Meetings...he did nothing! Additionally the Democrats did nothing...they just stood their watching!! u r right...he's a Clinton redux
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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #6
312. i didn't expect "great things" either, but i certainly did not anticipate

outright, blatant, in-you-face BETRAYAL.

i fully expected him to be a Clinton redux, but I never thought he'd be a Bush/Reagan redux.


absolutely disgusting.
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donco Donating Member (717 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 10:53 PM
Response to Original message
7. How did eight years of
bush work out for ya?
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No Passaran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. Like I said, I wasn't frustrated
I didn't vote for Bush and trust me, I had to witness first hand Bush's foreign policy in Iraq. I was in Newport News, VA in 2008 listening to Candidate Obama's speech on healthcare. This is not what was promised.

And I'm not being selfish here. I have Tricare Prime. I have VA if I need to use it. This is about my neighbor and how we let those folks down.
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donco Donating Member (717 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #13
41. I here ya
Dont get frustrated, have a couple of cool ones and think it over for a bit. Think back to the last eight years and try to figure out how we can get rid of some of the obstructionist like lieberman.Cheers and chin up.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 08:11 AM
Response to Reply #41
67. Here's how we get rid of the obstructionists like Lieberman.
We start campaigning for Kucinich for president 2012 and we start right now.

This health care bill is simply corruption in action, corruption at its worst. And Obama personally sold out to the pharmaceuticals and is now selling out to the health care insurance companies.

Corruption.

The only honest candidate was Kucinich. We need to start organizing for him now. And, no. I did not support Kucinich the last time around.

But frankly I think he will have a chance in 2012. Americans will be afraid of Palin, suspicious of Romney and on to the corruption of Obama and the DLC crowd.

The country will be ready for a truly honest man like Kucinich. He needs to hire someone to look at the ethics of every step he has ever taken so that he prepared for the scrutiny he will face in 2012. And we need to start educating our neighbors about Kucinich and his stands because the media won't do his campaigning for him like they did for Obama.
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #67
124. ROFL
:spray:

best of luck to ya...
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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #67
154. You need a serious reality check if you actually believe that Kucinich has any kind of chance.
I don't believe that Dennis Kucinich is even capable of winning a senate seat in the state of Ohio much less any national office. The first Democrat I voted for president was George McGovern and I'm not voting for anymore sacrificial lambs who get slaughtered in the general election.
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suzie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #154
254. I voted for and worked for George McGovern.
I thought and still think of McGovern as an honorable man and a good senator who authored a lot of progressive legislation--and worked across the aisle to get it passed.

But I find appalling the idea that we would support a Kucinich who does not author legislation, is mostly an opportunist who likes getting his name out there, and demonstrates arrogance in the same way that McGovern demonstrated humility.
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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #254
260. Agreed. DK is his own biggest fan even if he is a DU god. n/t
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Lasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #67
177. Kucinich lost me when he mentioned Ron Paul as a running mate.
Surely there's another potential president on the planet who would support single payer.
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winyanstaz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #67
234. I want Kucinich to start a new party........and I would vote for him in a heartbeat...
Not to be another "I tried to tell you so" post.....but...I have tried to tell you all this was coming for a long time now.
There is ONE party..and they have sold their soul to the corporations and big bankers.
They play good party..bad party with us and right now..Joe is the one to take the blame while they all go right on doing what they have been doing for some time now which is to destroy our great nation from the inside out.
We cannot blame this all on Joe...he is only the front man. There is NO way he could do what he is doing but that he is being allowed to do it.
You can count the real fighters for the people on one hand now..and they need to get their act together and get out of both parties (yes I do think even Ron Paul is better than what a lot of Dem's are doing now cause at least he stands for the Constitution)..but I degress....
The politicans that will fight for the people need to form a new party and do it NOW.
I want it to be a new left party of course..even call it the New Dem's or something if they want...just get rid of these entrenched traitors now.
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Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #234
253. Right - Kucinich should quit the Democratic Party
and run as the Green-Progressive candidate. I don't know if there is such a party, but there should be. I'm still a registered Democrat but I'd join it in a heartbeat. And Democratic Underground should change a few ground rules and then change its name to Progressive Underground.

Re >>There is ONE party..and they have sold their soul to the corporations and big bankers.
They play good party..bad party with us and right now..Joe is the one to take the blame while they all go right on doing what they have been doing for some time now which is to destroy our great nation from the inside out.<<

Many of us have known all this for a while now. I told myself when I voted for Obama that if he sold out I was through with the Democratic Party. No more "lesser of two evils" for me because there's really no such thing. I'm ready to bail now, and it looks like I've got plenty of company.

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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #234
301. I like that idea, more and more ~ n/t
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #234
315. I'm with you. I'd like to see a Kucinich/Grayson ticket. That
Edited on Tue Dec-15-09 10:17 PM by JDPriestly
would be strong. It could even be the other way around depending on which way polled best. Kucinich has a lot more experience, but Grayson is also a great choice.

Anyway, we need to start organizing now.

Another alternative is to get Howard Dean to run or for him to run with Kucinich.
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winyanstaz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 03:25 AM
Response to Reply #315
334. I would like to see Kucinich/Dean with Grayson next in line...
wouldnt that be a kick ass team?

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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 11:51 PM
Response to Reply #13
42. Have to say I am with you. If we can spend horrendous amounts to
Expand war in Afghanistan, because of 100 to 700 Al Queda there, well, health care for the sake of 44K Americans who die each year should be a done deal too.

It is a matter of priority. And apparently the People in this nation do not count, just the Big Industries.
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 08:38 AM
Response to Reply #13
78. i'm 48 and i have medicare due to the early onset of permanent disability
it's not about me, either- but it's getting me EXTREMELY fucking pissed off.
democrats just aren't democrats anymore.
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 08:35 AM
Response to Reply #7
77. i survived, just like i survived 12 years of raygun/poppy...
and i'll survive the next incarnation of politcal evil.

it's pretty fucking obvious that the people of this country aren't going to be motivated to act until things get a whole lot worse.
as they keep us headed in that direction, the corporate-owned dems will definitely get us there...

but the pukes will get us there a WHOLE LOT faster.
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katkat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #77
166. dys
Most of us will survive (although a lot who become ill won't.) But what about the kids and grandkids inheriting a degenerating planet on its way to chaos?
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CrispyQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #77
172. "and i'll survive the next incarnation of political evil."
Finally!! Finally, a good response to the statement, "If you think Bush was bad, just wait till X gets in office." Our political system is completely corrupt, compromised & broken. The message we send to the dems, when we continue to vote for the lesser of two evils, is that they can continue to betray democratic values because we'll continue to vote for them. It's total insanity. I don't think the dems realize how incensed the base is at this betrayal & that we have reached our boiling point.
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 08:52 AM
Response to Reply #7
81. So are you going to waltz out that excuse every time we get screwed now?
we got fucked over on health care, but hey, they're not bush*!

we are escalating the war, but hey, he's not bush'!

come on. we have to hold ALL our politicians feet to the fire not just the morons.

jeez.

no one gets a free ride, especially the ones we help elect. They should be held to a higher standard by us.
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ChairmanAgnostic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #7
200. hard to tell the diff from the last year.
Patriot act, secrecy, domesic spying without warrants? How are those different?

Big Pharma deals? That this WH lied about, then admitted, then lied again?
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Zix Donating Member (881 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #7
227. Much the same as the current administration. NT
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 10:53 PM
Response to Original message
8. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #8
16. No, vote third party
the right is ready to do the same. The two party system isn't working for any of us anymore. I would never vote for a repug, and I won't vote for a DINO either.
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StarfarerBill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #16
29. Exactly. Greens, Socialists, New Party, whomever.
Edited on Mon Dec-14-09 11:24 PM by StarfarerBill
It's way past time we had a progressive party in this country to counter the capitalist establishment.
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d_b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #29
35. we need a leftist party in this country
The nuts can keep the republican party, and the conservatives can keep the democratic party.
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StarfarerBill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. My point exactly.
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d_b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. now all we need is a name for said party
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StarfarerBill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 11:43 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. As I noted, we already have progressive/left parties.
But if we're looking to build one from scratch, the old tried-and-true Progressive Party works for me.
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d_b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. k that sounds good
we need a cool mascot though. like a velociraptor.
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StarfarerBill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 12:19 AM
Response to Reply #40
43. lol. As long as it's waving a red flag, that's fine.
;)
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emald Donating Member (718 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #37
115. PEOPLES PARTY e/t
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bongobobtherealone Donating Member (25 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #35
171. Roger that
The big problem is the average American can't think outside the box and therefore can't imagine voting for someone without a D or R. I'm glad people are finally starting to realize that MOST, not all Dems are as bad as the repugs simply from the standpoint that they are owned by someone other than their constituents. The only way this nation has a chance of survival is a major house cleaning. The Democrats have been considered the "Party for the people" for quite a few years but they no longer deserve that designation.
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Frosty cupcake Donating Member (51 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #35
205. That is a great truth.
Registered with the Socialist Party of Florida (Democratic Socialists, like Bernie Sanders in Vermont) a few weeks ago.
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d_b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #205
243. no socialist party here unfortunately
best i can find is the "other" option on the voter registration card.
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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #16
179. yes....
I started doing this in 2004. Until the dems become the party of the people again, they'll not see my vote or my financial support.
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xxqqqzme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #16
219. The problem is a third party is already
fucking up everything. The dlc, pretending to be the DNC, is in control. The dlc has never hidden their loyalty/obedience to the corporate campaign dollars they court. With both parties, the rnc & the dlc, competing for those corporate dollars, the DNC got left in the wake. Howard Dean fought to restore the party. He was so successful, that a Dems were elected all over the place. So successful, Dean was replaced w/ a dlc stooge by the very Democrats the DNC helped elect.
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RoyGBiv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #8
26. You're voting straight Republican ...

I think you took a wrong turn at Albuquerque.



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styersc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 10:54 PM
Response to Original message
9. No more volunteering, no more cash and no more votes.
All of the above has turned out to be a waste of time. We've been duped!

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Speck Tater Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 10:54 PM
Response to Original message
10. I'm beginning to think that the whole idea that politics can change anything is fundamentally flawed
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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #10
21. Not until we get money out of politics.
We need to figure out a way to equitably dole out public airwaves and commercial time.
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CrispyQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #21
175. It's a wicked Catch-22.
How do we get the ones who control policy to change the very policies that they benefit from? I can't remember ever being this disgusted with our government & our elected representatives.
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MUAD_DIB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 10:56 PM
Response to Original message
12. Not offended.

WE elected them. They better do right by us and not the lobbyists.
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Nite Owl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 10:56 PM
Response to Original message
14. K&R
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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 10:57 PM
Response to Original message
15. We just have to get better Democrats.
We need to defeat jokers like Lieberman and last time was too half assed. We need someone like Jim Webb.
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Scruffy1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #15
86. I've been hearing this for forty years
And not a dam thing has improved. Even my congressman Keith Ellison had to play ball with the DLC to get a committee assignment or whatever. I knew the gig was up when they gave Lieberman a Chairmanship.
I will never vote for another democrat even though some I respect and some are friends. No change is possible within this moribund two party system. We have the start of a third party in Kucinich, Massa, Ellison, Bernie Sanders in the senate and maybe the whole house progressive caucus. We could start with maybe a fifty vote block in the house which is enough to control it as the rest would be devided fifty- fifty. The real problem with a third party is committee assignments and chairmanships. As it is the progressive caucus has the power to stop this ludicrous health care bill now and I hope they do.
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sellitman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #86
92. I hope they step up and stop this madness to.
I'm with you!
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katkat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #15
167. No we do not need Jim Webb
That misogynistic woman-denigrating creep. Unless you think you can win with only men voting for him.

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notesdev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 10:59 PM
Response to Original message
18. corporate whores
all we get.

This whole health care farce has devolved into cajoling Joe Lieberman to support a bill designed to force everyone to pay private companies for the privilege of being alive.

I'm sure this will be just as satisfying a reform as campaign reform was.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 10:59 PM
Response to Original message
19. 90% of the party rank & file agree with you. Health care "reform" that = a mandate to buy private
insurance + expanded war + no jobs = continuation of Republican rule.
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seeinfweggos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #19
275. source?
90 percent, huh. interesting.
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Lucian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 10:59 PM
Response to Original message
20. How can I be offended if I agree with you?
K&R
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 10:59 PM
Response to Original message
22. I'm not donating to any of those committees any more either.
I will send money to promising liberal candidates though. I think that we have to target where are money goes. The DNC, DSCC and DCCC seem to give the money, our money, that they collect to DLC candidates. I'm done with that.
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BP2 Donating Member (406 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #22
30. chump change
The committees don't need your piddly, little money anymore.

They have $ from Big Pharma, Big Insurance, Big Hospitals, etc
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #30
34. Fine. Then they better stop sending me envelopes because I keep sending
them back with notes not money.
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rachael7 Donating Member (39 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #22
111. +1 Not one more red cent for the party
From now on, I evaluate every candidate on an individual basis and only the most progressive will get my money... preferably in primaries against these miserable corporate sell-outs we've got now. Not one more penny for DSCC, Democratic Party, or any other national organization that gives my money to corporate whores!
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NRaleighLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 10:59 PM
Response to Original message
23. Right there with you. n/t
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roamer65 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 11:00 PM
Response to Original message
24. I'm not done with them, but my vote is now certainly not guaranteed.
Edited on Mon Dec-14-09 11:01 PM by roamer65
I'll be looking for more Green and Social Democrats on the ballot.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #24
95. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
kickitup Donating Member (47 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 11:05 PM
Response to Original message
25. me too
I'm disgusted. Washington is owned by corporations and Wall Street. I feel let down, but a small voice is telling me I should have known better. I won't get fooled again.
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NoodleyAppendage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 11:10 PM
Response to Original message
27. Sign me up as one of the disaffected who WILL NOT give $$$ to any Dem on the national level. n/t
J
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piratefish08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 11:11 PM
Response to Original message
28. I'm DONE. Done donating, volunteering and supporting. This country is fucked.
fucked.
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RagAss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 12:50 AM
Response to Reply #28
45. Me too. No more driving Dems to the polls on election day...not for this shit !
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No Passaran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 02:51 AM
Response to Reply #45
47. amen
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Autumn Colors Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #28
206. Me, too
Edited on Tue Dec-15-09 01:51 PM by Autumn Colors
Have spent years doing all of the above PLUS protesting, letter-writing, emailing, and the list goes on and on. It's like beating my head against the wall. If doing your all changes nothing, why bother?

If there's no other choice than Democratic or Republican, it's all just theater.

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Tailormyst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 11:18 PM
Response to Original message
31. I am truly heart broken tonight
I feel sick to my stomach.
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PinkoDonkey Donating Member (112 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 11:20 PM
Response to Original message
32. [deleted]
Edited on Mon Dec-14-09 11:23 PM by PinkoDonkey
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upi402 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 11:21 PM
Response to Original message
33. You're not alone
You have a lot of company.
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pa28 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 11:45 PM
Response to Original message
39. Wait a minute. We've been feeling sick and now we can identify the disease.
It goes deeper than Joe Lieberman. It's corporate cash dictating policy.

If you have anything left get involved and talk to anyone who will listen about a bill that will close loopholes on the flow of corporate cash. I don't think any kind of meaningful change can happen unless we treat the disease first.
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wolfgangmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #39
125. Absolutely - we need full public financing for public office
And a short run time before the election.

As it stands right now in order to get elected you need to be either a billionaire/millionaire or in the pocket of corporate interests. Public financing would allow others besides the uber rich or their lap dogs to run. It would return the congress to a meritocracy.

Also having any candidate run for 2 years to get office is ridiculous. We either need a law that makes anyone running give up their previous office or sharply limit the run to a few months or similar short period of time.

Until we get the big money out of public elections, then we do not one person - one vote, we have one dollar - one vote. And the rich run our country for thier own benefit and United We Stand has no meaning.
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RagAss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 12:48 AM
Response to Original message
44. Amen !
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amborin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 01:07 AM
Response to Original message
46. it's not just
health care reform....it started long before that......

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Raine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 03:43 AM
Response to Original message
49. The Democratic party will never get another dime
from me ... for one thing I guess all my money will go for mandatory fucking insurance! :mad: :grr:
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No Passaran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 04:21 AM
Response to Original message
52. I've been keeping quiet here...
Just reading other posts and thinking to myself "just wait and see, there will be public option". Then it was replaced with "at least medicare buy in is better than nothing at all". Now what? It's gonna go up on President's desk and it will be signed, everyone will pat each other on the back, Lieberman will be in the background smiling and WE who got them all elected will be left shaking our heads.

What happened to people like LBJ who could make things happen in the Senate? Will anyone ever emerge as a true leader? What's Rahm's deal? Whose money and interests is he serving?

I'm tired and going to bed. Thanks DU
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 04:57 AM
Response to Original message
53. Saw this coming a long time ago. The corporatists own this country. The sooner we all get that fact
Edited on Tue Dec-15-09 04:57 AM by earth mom
the better.


George Carlin warned us all-why weren't DUers listening?
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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 05:04 AM
Response to Original message
54. woohoo!!! Give me an R!! Give me an E!! Give me a P!! Give me a U!!
Gooooo REPUBLICANS!!
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pundaint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #54
132. I wont be swayed again by the Republican bogeyman argument.
When Democrats move a Republican agenda, there is no bottom-line difference. And yes, I would rather have Republicans passing a Republican agenda than Democrats passing a Republican agenda. At least when It's the Republicans being Republican, I have some hope that things will change, when Democrats push the Republican agenda and proudly congratulate themselves for it, I have lost all hope.

So don't give me that shit about how the party makes a difference, until you can prove that in any significant way, it does.
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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #132
215. that would be hilarious if it wasn't so sad
we just lived through eight years of a Republican agenda and you want to sell the nonsense that there is no difference. Did you sleep through the last 8 years, or are you just one of those people who thinks that every Democrat voted for the Bush tax cuts and the Iraq War Resolution? (hint, they didn't - not by a long shot. In fact, Bush called for a ZERO percent tax rate on dividends and permament tax cuts, and the House Republicans quickly passed that, but Senate Democrats cut that to a 15% tax rate instead of zero and also put in sunset provisions and then still EVERY SINGLE SENATE DEMOCRAT voted AGAINST IT and it passed the Senate by 51-50.)
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #215
238. Democrats DID vote with Republicans on some of the most
important issues. 12 Senate Democrats voted for the vile MCA eg. And just enough of them voted every time to ensure that the Bush agenda would pass. Even after gaining a majority in 2006, the only thing Dems managed to get passed was a watered down Minimum Wage bill which was almost worthless in terms of helping the working class. That was their accomplishment in two years of holding a majority. Bush's war supplementals and his nominees were supported by Democrats, and I could go on.

So, exactly what difference does it make which party is in power? The Dems who voted against Bush's policies will continue to do so and will continue to get support. But NOT through the DNC as far as I am concerned. I will support individually, those who support the people. No more contributions to pacs that distribute the money to candidates I do not support.

Keeping the real Democrats in power, and not worrying about the Blue Dogs who are no different than Republicans, won't change anything much. Other than Dems will get to see that first, they can no longer count on people's votes, and second, that maybe they better start catering toUS rather than the Republican Party and the DLC for a change. The worst that can happen is that things will stay the same.

But to keep using the same strategy that has failed over and over again, is just plain stupid.

So, don't bother using the Republican boogie man anymore. It won't work now and only serves to remind people how we got here. We fell for that instead of supporting real Democrats, in the hope that a majority would actually accomplish something. Time for a whole new strategy now. We've seen the ultimate a Dem majority in its current form can accomplish. Time to move on.
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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #238
246. move on and do what?
Repeat 1994? Repeat 2000?

Again you say "Democrats did" which is plainly false. It is false without a qualifier - "some" or "a minority". Yeah, strangely enough, there's not much you can do when Republicans are willing to fillibuster everything and also sustain Bush's vetoes even on something popular like SCHIP so we didn't do much positive in 2006.

I have not seen anybody proposing a new strategy other than "giving up" "walking away" or "telling the Democratic Party to fuck off".

It's pretty strange to call a serial killer a boogie man, but hey, whatever floats your hate.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #246
251. 'Strangely enough there's not much you can do when Republicans
are willing to filibuster everything'.

Sure there is, Democrats could 'filibuster everything' also, so why don't they?

As for 'walking away', I'm not walking away, I'm just not going to support what we now see even with a Democratic majority is the status quo. If this Health Care sham had taken place under Bush people would not have had the patience they've had up to now. That was a mistake.

Democrats, far too many of them, voted willingly for many of Bush's worst nominees and policies. Explain why 12 Senate Dems voted against Habeas Corpus if you can? And even after that we still held our noses and supported them in 2006.

Read what I said. I will support ONLY Democrats who fight for the people. Otherwise it will be Independents or third party candidates who believe that being in Congress means looking out for the interests of the people who put you there.

You go ahead and be a blind partisan is you wish. I used to be, now I see that the Founding Fathers were right about party politics. And it wasn't Republicans who proved that to me. I never expected anything of them, it was Democrats, the only hope the people had to at least put up a fight.

Republicans filibuster! Yes they do because they fight for what they want. Democrats are afraid they might look bad if they filibuster. I want fighters representing me. I'm sick of the weak excuses from Democrats about why they cannot accomplish anything worthwhile. If they can't, then they need to get out of the way and let someone who can, take over.

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TreasonousBastard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 05:28 AM
Response to Original message
55. Another quitter who's just gonna give up.
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snot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 06:07 AM
Response to Original message
56. not sure if this will work, but
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/6ljxpyH4dnA&hl=en_US&fs=1& "></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/6ljxpyH4dnA&hl=en_US&fs=1& " type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ljxpyH4dnA
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #56
106. Fucking awesome! nt
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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 06:26 AM
Response to Original message
57. I am very offended.
I am offended by Lieberman's very existence at this point and I can't believe Dem leadership isn't going into his office, slapping him around and stripping him of anything and everything he holds dear.

"Offended" doesn't even begin to cover it.

Julie
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natrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 08:12 AM
Response to Reply #57
68. rahm,o, ried-they are all in it together and just suck
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Ganja Ninja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 06:51 AM
Response to Original message
59. I'll be considering third party candidates when ever I have the choice from now on.
I've been frustrated by the behavior of the Democrats too many times. If they can't clean up the mess in their own party then how can the clean up the mess in Washington?
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 07:19 AM
Response to Original message
60. Not offended. Not interested, either.
Just another rant.
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Blacksheep214 Donating Member (682 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 07:57 AM
Response to Original message
64. Time to cut corners
Hey Joe!

I now fully support CUTTING the subsidies to Israel.

If you want to be a dick then so can we!

Not anti-semite, just anti-Lieberman.

Lieberman the executioner who condemns our sick to die. I see he learned from the Nazis how to purify a society.

Sick? To the right!
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 08:09 AM
Response to Original message
66. Look--you don't have to donate to DSCC, DNC or whatever
Please donate to individual candidates that share your values. How else can we get better people in office?
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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #66
287. UHHHH, I think Many THOUGHT They Were Voting For Someone Who
shared their values!! There's the RUB, my friend!!!
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D23MIURG23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 08:12 AM
Response to Original message
69. Something tells me you might come around next time we get a republican in office. n/t
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begin_within Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 08:14 AM
Response to Original message
70. The Democratic party is tied to corporate donations and thus can't make any real progress.
As long as that tie remains, nothing will change.
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Kermitt Gribble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 08:29 AM
Response to Original message
71. I agree 100%, as do many others.
We're all waking up to the fact that the US govt is no longer the peoples' govt. Now we just need to put our heads together to figure out how to take it back.
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Don Draper Donating Member (69 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 08:30 AM
Response to Original message
72. I share your sentiments
I am disguested with the democratic leadership. I have been telling people for a long time it was pointless to let Lieberman keep his chairmanships. The leadership should take this son of a bitch to the wood shed & strip him of his chairmanships. Also, why not pass healthcare reform through reconciliation? The leadership is sooooo reluctant to do this but it is the only way we can get anything remotley what we want.

The Democrats are committing political suicide. They will loose big in the next election; not because the country is turning conservative. It is because the base is becoming dissapointed with the party & does not see the sweeping change we were promised.
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secondwind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 08:30 AM
Response to Original message
73. try to keep the faith, I don't think this is the end....HOLD ON!
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cstanleytech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 08:40 AM
Response to Original message
79. Rather then cry about it fight harder to get a democrat elected to his seat.
After all the dems have to appease the man somewhat if they want to keep a majority for important votes.
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provis99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #79
188. why the fuck would we want ANOTHER corporate democrat elected.
You missed the entire point of the OP.
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ejbr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 08:50 AM
Response to Original message
80. I only needed to read the title of the post to decide to rec. n/t
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countryken Donating Member (37 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 08:58 AM
Response to Reply #80
83. It's time for the handful of progressives to stand up
Memo to Bernie and Al and Sharrod and their likeminded senators:

Just kill the damn thing. It's been watered down to the point of being useless. In this bizarro world of the US Government, this will give you power.

Note to my personal senator, Bill Nelson:

I will actively support your opponent in the primary, but your opponent will not be bankrolled by big insurance so he or she will lose. For the general election, I will abstain.

RIP Hope 2009-2009
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 08:56 AM
Response to Original message
82. Did you mean DLC, not DNC? Notice Howard Dean is DNC - Rahm is DLC. Notice what Rahm
stated yesterday - that Obama said to cut a deal with Leiberman. The DLC is our problem, not DNC.

Howard Dean is one of a dozen or half a dozen people who are talking sense.

I empathize with you. We only have a couple of heroes.

Someone said the insurance companies are saying they won.

In Leiberman, we have learned that we have a person of NO PRINCIPLES at all.

And now we are bowing to him.

Knowing that he has no principles or ethics, he may even be playing an approved role in the failure. What would that say about those who used him. Pure speculation on my part. But my statement about no principles appears to be true.

No pocket ever designed is deep enough for that guy. He doesn't even bother to consider public perception of his ethics. Emmanuel also.

We are dependent on a dozen people.

Yes, I empathize with you, but I don't think DU should get blamed for anything.
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Stoic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 09:04 AM
Response to Reply #82
85. Howard Dean is no longer the chair of the DNC
While he was I dropped some serious money into their coffers every month. Last week I removed myself from the DNC, DSCC and DCCC's email list and sent notice they should drop me from their regular mail list. It'll be a cold day in hell before they see my money again.
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #82
109. No ethics at all? Dean was fired as DNC Chairman
and replaced by Obama with the bigoted religionist Tim Kaine, who opposes choice, and not just equality for GLBT people, but any form of equal rights in partnership for us. He's a full tilt homophobe and hypocrite. The same crowd that has always hated Dean is now in charge.
So I think you know all of this. Dean is not with the DNC any more. The false information will not fly here. This is not the Beltway. We read.
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #109
128. No, it's my fault. I don't get to read that much anymore. I know that
Edited on Tue Dec-15-09 10:57 AM by peacetalksforall
some wanted him out. Following the fight at the DNC wasn't a priority. I didn't know anything about Kaine and I'm sorry to learn that the DNC turned. I thought the DLC was our major enemy.

By our enemy, I mean exactly what you wrote - we don't need any more false religious people.

I am sorry to learn this. Now, I feel like crap. It must all translate to NO HOPE.

We do have to believe in the players. I can't think of one name on the team that is acceptable.

Our Party is turning against us.

From the Kyoto agreement to foreign relations to the banking-reserve mafia.
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Stoic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 08:59 AM
Response to Original message
84. Obama and the Dem leadership were NEVER going to pass real HCR
Lieberman was just their beard. This effing Kabuki was played out over months while they tried to find a way to kill it without getting any blood on themselves. Perhaps they were waiting for another terrorist act to distract us all. Let's make this very very clear: Obama lied his way into the White House and surrounded himself with the worst of the worst money men and is doing exactly what he wants as president. The liberals and progressives lost this election and we better get used to it. It's going to be more war, more raids on the treasury and more protect-the-torturers until they figure out how to jump start the next bubble economy.
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piratefish08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #84
101. I believe this now. 2 weeks ago I didn't. Obama and the Dem's intentions are now clear.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #84
110. They thought we wouldn't notice.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #84
176. Plus they've made such a fiasco of HCR that Dems look like a joke...and that
is going to hurt us badly for a long time coming.
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austin78704 Donating Member (175 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 09:07 AM
Response to Original message
87. There is a bright side
The republicans did such a disgustingly poor job when they were in power that many (most?) republicans are looking for a viable third party. Now the democrats are putting their base in the same spot. Really, when you look at both sides, once you get rid of the loudest 10% or so, the remaining majority is largely made up of reasonable people that agree on most of what needs to be done. This is a great environment for fostering a viable independent movement.

I'm not against political parties, but both of the big ones have become too comfortable. The democrats know around 1/2 of the voters feel like they have to vote for the democrats no matter what, and the republicans know most of the remaining 1/2 of voters feel like they have to vote republican no matter what. So the parties both have zero incentive to listen to their base, and all kinds of incentive to flop around, trying to appeal to that tiny sliver of "swing voters." That's why both parties behave exactly the same way when in power. OTOH, a three-way split makes that scenario very difficult.

Think of the rise of an independent movement or a third party as a political public option--it'll force the lazy ones to compete or die.
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katsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 09:07 AM
Response to Original message
88. We don't even exist.
So, no I'm not offended. I'm with you.

I need health care. I can't afford it. I'm not alone.

This is the final slap in the face for me and I let my Reps and the WH know it last night.

Please, everyone, send an email or call if you can.

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StillHopingForChange Donating Member (37 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 09:19 AM
Response to Original message
89. Unsubscribe .....
I've been clicking that link on every money begging email I've gotten for the past two weeks. And where I can, blasting the senders.

Enraged, disgusted, disappointed - so many emotions about this betrayal that I can't even seem to identify them all.
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #89
322. I get so many e-mails that I can't keep them straight. I want to figure it out so that I can
express my displeasure without making a mistake.

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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 09:20 AM
Response to Original message
90. 
Edited on Tue Dec-15-09 09:28 AM by flyarm
Remember Joe Lieberman was Obamas Mentor in the Senate
By: fflambeau Monday December 14, 2009 10:05 pm

Those who are up in arms over Sen. Joe Liebermans "veto" of the extension of Medicare should remember this. When Sen. Barack Obama arrived in Washington, D.C. in 2005, he selected as his mentor none other than: Joe Lieberman.

Heres David Sirota writing about this, after discussing Obamas stab in the back of the progressive Lamont in Connecticut and his stab in the back of the progressive Christine Cegelis (Obama backed Duckworth) way back in 2006:

http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/18929

( it's all a fraud..it is one hell of a dog and pony show..to shove down the throats of the American people a piece of shit called reform!..the only ones getting reform are the big boys..those that decide your health care! They want you to accept any pice of shit they throw out there now..so Obama gets the big bucks from his secret deals with Big Pharma and the Insurance boys!)
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swilton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
91. Making Lieberman the Scapegoat
Doesn't work for me - the rot that is inherent in Lieberman's chairmanship should be placed squarely on our Democratic Party leadership who worked to get him elected (Clinton, Obama) and those that enable him in the Senate (Reid, et.al.)

unfortunately health care is but one example.

I'm ashamed, at the greed, ignorance and hubris ongoing at the Copenhagen Summit

I'm ashamed that we, as Cynthia McKinney notes, have a War policy rather than an Energy Policy -

With infrastructure crumbling in our schools, neighborhoods and communities we have chosen to bailout Wall Street and not Main Street -

blaming Lieberman is no better than laughing at Cheney or Palin - making these pathetic individuals scapegoats is a mere distraction to placate the masses - in my view there is something rotten in the state of Denmark - our Democratic Party leaders validated the 2000 elections and accepted Bush's Wars and finally approved his Supreme Court nominees. The fault doesn't totally lie with Lieberman, any more than it lies with Bush, Cheney or Palin.

Please reconsider your decision - we need more people to speak out.
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go west young man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #91
108. So true...the country is continuing it's downward spiral and our dem leaders
have helped the opposition in so many ways it's absolutely ridiculous. We cave, we placate, we let Leiberman stay meanwhile Republicans can have sex with prostitutes who are found dead and THEY GET AWAY WITH IT!
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 09:31 AM
Response to Original message
93. Not offended, more like unhappy that your tantrum has the potential to help the GOP get back
into power.
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cornermouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #93
97. That comment certainly added to the conversation.
:sarcasm:
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AndrewP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #97
112. "House" up there parrots the same line 2002348932234 times a day
If the Democrats act like Republicans, what's the fucking difference? LOL
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #97
134. Sorry I didn't know that one was allowed to offer a different viewpoint on a tantrum thread
I will keep that in mind.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #134
135. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
cornermouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #134
153. Rule 3.
Civility: Treat other members with respect. Do not post personal attacks against other members of this discussion forum.

Accusing those who disagree with you of having tantrums should be considered disrespectful and/or even a personal attack.
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #153
155. and yet you turn a blind eye to the lack of civility in your own use of sarcasm
Edited on Tue Dec-15-09 11:55 AM by NJmaverick
I would like to say I am surprised, but I can't


Oh and BTW, I am pretty sure "offended? tough" is lacking in the civility you claim to support.

Oh and FYI- Definiton of tantrum-N- A fit of bad temper
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cornermouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #155
222. One little problem.
I am not routinely uncivil.
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mochajava666 Donating Member (771 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 09:38 AM
Response to Original message
94. Well said
I'm right there with you.
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Old Codger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 09:47 AM
Response to Original message
96. What happened
Is exactly what I expected , they fucked it up til we would be happier to see it go down than to pass...they got what THEY wanted...
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harun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 10:06 AM
Response to Original message
99. If this bill has no PO or Medicare Buy In, Obama should vetoe it. Not that I hope
he will but he should if he wants to keep any Dem's supporting him.
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smoogatz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #99
119. Agreed.
Veto, with a stern rebuke to Congress, and instructions to go back to the drawing board and get it right this time. Actually it's my feeling that the WH should have written their own bill at the outset, within a month or two of the election, and rammed it through while they still had some post-electoral political capitol.
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harun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #119
138. I haven't heard from Sanders or Feingold yet but I can't imagine them letting
both get stripped w'out a fight.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 10:07 AM
Response to Original message
100. I will be happy to support
and vote for REAL Democrats-there are some. The bullshit Dinos? I will support their opponent, unless they are GOP or Tea Party.
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swilton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #100
113. On some levels
continuing to support the Democrotic Party is enabling it.....

Perhaps if another GOPer gets in office the country will hit rock bottom, and like and alcoholic who hits the brick wall and begins to help him/herself, our country will rise again like a Phoenix. With either a Democrotic/Republicon candidate (with very few exceptions) - there is very little difference.

The health care reform is going in the wrong direction, climate change is going in the wrong direction and health care reform is going in the wrong direction. President Obama may give eloquent speaches but until he makes fundamental changes in these policy initiatives, we are still driving over a clift. We just are driving a little slower than if we had a GOP president.

There is a movement that is building that is going to be strong enough to take us in this direction - we're just not there yet. Perhaps if we hit rock bottom a little quicker, the movement will gain greater strength.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 05:46 AM
Response to Reply #113
331. Right.....but
I will continue to fight against the FILTHY REPUBLICANS anyway I can. I use the word filthy because that's exactly what they are. As bad as a Nazi in every respect.
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zoff Donating Member (302 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 10:11 AM
Response to Original message
102. I feel ya buddy. I'm not offended at all.
I just saw Angels and Demons again. We could all pull an "Illuminati" and switch to, aka infiltrate, the republik party or Tea Party or Party with no Soul, however you want to call them. Thus showing the dems that we've had enough backstabbing. If ya can't beat 'em join 'em? We can make a glorious mess of the republik primaries ... how bout that for fun?!
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 10:13 AM
Response to Original message
103. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
AllyCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
107. It is beyond comprehension. I'm pretty much with you
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90-percent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 10:29 AM
Response to Original message
114. some comments
Joe Lieberman is being downright medieval upon his constituents.

Let Them Eat Cake Joe Lieberman.

At long last, Sir, have you no compassion for your fellow human beings?

-90% Jimmy
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smoogatz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 10:32 AM
Response to Original message
116. How quickly they forget.
Edited on Tue Dec-15-09 10:34 AM by smoogatz
Remember the last guy? Liked him, did you? Yes, we've elected a bunch of feckless, gutless, corrupt jackasses to both houses of congress. Yes, I can understand why some here feel they've been sold a bill of goods by Obama, although as far as I can tell he's still doing exactly what he said he'd do, more or less. But it's just nowhere near as bad as Bush/Cheney, or whatever wingnut they're going to run in 2012. And if you think this congress is bad (and it is: the most pathetically piss-poor excuse for a Democratic majority in my lifetime), wait 'til the Republicans win back control of both houses in 2010. Because that's essentially what you're supporting with this thread, right?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 10:35 AM
Response to Original message
117. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
theFrankFactor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 10:36 AM
Response to Original message
118. It's Bigger Than This! It is, Was and Will Be a Sham UNtil We Fight!
Please! Lieberman was

GORE'S RUNNING MATE! WHAT. THE. FUCK?

There is one ruling force in this nation CORPORATIONS!



I'm screaming from the top of my pointy head, WE ARE BEING FUCKED BY OUR OWN PEOPLE!

Blue Dogs? Come the FUCK on!

Corporate interests are guaranteed success against all Democrat majorities BECAUSE THERE IS NO DEMOCRAT MAJORITY!

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SuaveBolla Donating Member (7 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 10:39 AM
Response to Original message
121. Everyone should OPT OUT
of the DLC, DNC, Obama or whatever mailing lists. Big numbers get noticed.

A Progressive Party needs to hit the ground running NOW to rev up for 2012 and slap the DINO's and "centrists".

KUCINICH 2012!! Those in the Democratic Party who do not value platform promises serve no positive purpose. May as well have Rethugs then you know you'll be screwed for corporate interests.
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parasearchers Donating Member (264 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #121
131. I totally agree with that!
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #121
144. Deleted message
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closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 10:39 AM
Response to Original message
122. K&R
Edited on Tue Dec-15-09 10:42 AM by closeupready
As far as I'm concerned, you are 100% entitled to feel this way, hurt and betrayed, and I will not silence you. Obama even restated on Sunday night that he wants to be held accountable. This is holding him accountable. By screaming and yelling, we are actually behaving consistent with his wishes.
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jeffroby Donating Member (8 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #122
292. 435 Democratic primaries in 2012
We yell a lot, We say, "progressives should ..." "we should ..." "somebody should ..." Remember how some years ago one of the major car or tire companies had defective tires that were killing people, and they knew it, but calculated that the cost of fixing the problem would be more than defending the ensuing lawsuits. So they let people keep on dying. Likewise, the angry progressive response has already been factored into the Democratic Party political "budget," and they've decided they can serve us up on a platter to the insurance companies and ride out the outrage. After all, what are we going to actually do?

Here's what we can do. I call it the Full Court Press.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/12/4/810873/-for-a-F... "

It entails creating a set of minimal progressive principles (Single-payer, out of Afghanistan AND Iraq, repeal NAFTA, repeal Hyde, support gay marriage, jobs program to CREATE jobs) as a suggestion. And only a suggestion, please. A Full Court candidate in EVERY congressional district would ask the incumbent if she/he supported the principles. If not, the Press candidate would file in the Democratic primary. They wouldn't have to try to win, if they hadn't the resources or organization. They would just be on the ballot. The focus is on 2012 primaries, but if there's enough anger, perhaps we could begin filing in 2010.

Big deal, the professionals might sneer. Yeah, it'd be a damn big deal if this was done in 435 districts.

No more empty threats. No more tantrums that subside until the next sellout. No more calling for someone else (progressives, blogs, the masses) to do something when you and you and you and you and you have a real tactic at your fingertips THAT YOU CAN ACTUALLY MAKE WORK. Hit the link. Read the plan. E-mail me at fullCourtPrez@comcast.net . Get involved.



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DallasNE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
130. Talk About Cutting Off Your Nose To Spite Your Face
The alternative is George W. Bush, or worse, Sarah Palin.

What you are saying is that you would rather have no loaf than half a loaf. It is time to suck it up and stay on board.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #130
133. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Techn0Girl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #130
143. Talk About Beng a Good Party Lapdog ....
I wonder what arguments the prole Communist Party members used to convince themselves that waiting in line for two hours for toilet paper was a good thing because the Party said so.

My guess is that they sounded like you.
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DallasNE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #143
217. My Way Or The Highway
Sounds no better coming from a liberal than it did coming from George W. Bush. It is time to face facts. In the Senate there is a nominal 60 vote filibuster majority. In reality about 6 of those are DINO's so you have to play with the cards you are dealt and that means settling for a half-loaf and hope to improve things later. The alternative is another 30 years of darkness.
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Techn0Girl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #217
226. No - we're NOT falling for that again....
Time to face facts?
A Democratic majority just gave away National Health care in favor of mandatory payments to private insurance companies.

That's a fact, Jack.

If the Democratic party can not and will not work for me when I gave them this much power then they can kiss my vote and my support goodbye.

That's a fact.
No more excuses
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Missy Vixen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #130
145. Oh, boy. More purity, huh?
>The alternative is George W. Bush, or worse, Sarah Palin.<

George W. Bush can't run again, braniac. I might also add that Sarah Palin would quit before she ever reached the Oval Office. She couldn't handle the pressure, let alone the workload.

>What you are saying is that you would rather have no loaf than half a loaf. It is time to suck it up and stay on board.<

We're not even getting half a loaf. Try the crumbs. Maybe.

The Obama apologists are getting more and more desperate these days. After all, the curtain's been ripped away, and we can all see the little man operating the controls.



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parasearchers Donating Member (264 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #130
147. Tow the party line comrade!
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katkat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #130
169. half a loaf
I used to believe that. But we aren't even getting a slice of bread, let along half a loaf. I maybe see a few crumbs in the floor I could lick up

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 11:07 AM
Response to Original message
137. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 11:07 AM
Response to Original message
139. The fact that Gore chose Lieberman as his VP. pick speaks volume's
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VOX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #139
276. Pre-9/11 Joe wasn't quite as puke-inducing as post-9/11 Joe...
Holy Joementum threw in with neocons after 9/11 -- one of a long list of flip-outs after that date.
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FunMe Donating Member (184 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 11:09 AM
Response to Original message
140. Finally, people opening up to reality!
I can't believe this blog is taking so long to open their eyes to the fact that our President could care less about you and me. He cares more about Wall St, starting wars, giving money to corporations, and "paling aournd" with republiCONs.

Many people like me gave our time, money and support with lots of enthusiasm, only to be ignored.

The current bill is not healthcare reform. It is CORPORATE WELFARE for the insurance industry.
It is WORSE than having no bill at all.

I which I knew psychology, but I was just reading another post regarding blinding supporting the president even thought he seems to be treating us the way Chris Brown treated Rihanna.

Well I refuse to be in denial and support the president who does not support We The People.

The Obama(R)ahma adminstration has BETRAYED the American people.

No amount of spin will change that when you have Obama doing nothing to have the public option or Medicare buy-in.

People can still hang on to their "but where are you going to go?' or "he's playing chess" or "have patience". I guess DENIAL IS NOT JUST A RIVER IN EGYPT.

I prefer to be in the reality-based community and see that Obama has punked us all.

SAD day for America.
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SkyDaddy7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 11:10 AM
Response to Original message
141. You can't blame the entire party...
Numbers are numbers and if there are not votes to pass something then you either stop trying and let Americans continue to suffer or you do what you can. I agree allowing JOE to keep his Chairmanship was a mistake.

It is easy to just blame everyone but that does not make it right.
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Techn0Girl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #141
146. Yes - you CAN Blame the Whole Party. (hint:read the thread)
I know that I am .
I see that a LOT of other DUers are as well.
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SkyDaddy7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #146
149. I read the thread!
Ok, better yet...What exactly would you prefer the party does? Just give up and start a campaign of blaming those responsible? This helps no one and gives fuel to the claim by the GOP that the Dems can't do anything but complain. Other than that the party has to compromise. Again, if you do not have the numbers to pass a bill then you have two options, give up or compromise. If you know of another option please tell me.
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SkyDaddy7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #146
156. If you really want to place blame...
You could start with the citizens of Connecticut. And perhaps the Blue Dogs. But to blame the entire party is simply an emotional decision.
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parasearchers Donating Member (264 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #141
150. Umm Yes you can.
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SkyDaddy7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #150
152. Sure you can...
But the Tea Baggers blame Obama for taking America down the road to Socialism but does it make them correct? Same applies here!

I understand the frustrations with the legislative process but we do live in a country where votes count...If the Dems do not have the votes then they can either give up or compromise.
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Mosaic Donating Member (851 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 11:11 AM
Response to Original message
142. You make a good point
We desperately need a progressive third party in this country. One that can win!!!
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Andronex Donating Member (378 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #142
161. A third party doesn't need to win...
It just needs to win a significant number of the vote, maybe 10 or 15% to shift the whole debate towards the left, forcing the democratic party to earn their votes, and pulling the republicans towards the centre. Eventually in a three way split a left party could win power...
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Oak2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #161
248. That's why the VT Progressive Party is powerful in VT well beyond our numbers
We've got a mere handful in the state house. But if the Democrats want to get many things done, they have to deal with us (i.e., they've got to move to the left), and there's always the threat of a Prog opponent in the next election to keep them honest.

I think the VT Progs are a good model for people thinking third party. They started not as a formal party, but as a left-of-center coalition. Build the network out of left-leaning people with an interest in policy and governance ("making a statement" is a waste of time and money, though it no doubt satisfies the egos of the statement-makers). Don't sweat it if your local coalition is composed of 75% progressive Dems and former Dems, 20% Greens and assorted democratic socialists, and 5% CPUSA, Trotskyites, assorted anarchists who somehow failed to note the contradiction, and a few confusingly affiliated Ron Paul supporters and teabaggers-- it's not about 100% purity, it's about "agree on enough policy items to be able to work together for change", and if the 95% can't keep the 5% in check, the problem is not with the 5%. Ditto for some local organizations that amount to the local Green Party under another name, while the county next door is 100% disaffected Dem. We're building a coalition that can become the backbone of a new party, not trying to go to a formal party in one great leap. People who are serious about politics won't jump parties for yet another self-proclaimed national third party, but if a real political structure exists, and coalition-endorsed candidates show they can win, then it will be possible to take the final step, and bring along a few of our favorite current elected officials.

Local organizing is in many respects more powerful than national organizing. Let me rudely shout that last point, in fact: LOCAL ORGANIZING IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN NATIONAL ORGANIZING. This point is so important it's worth violating netiquette to emphasize. The way to create this party is not to set up an office in Washington DC and wait for the crowds to follow. It's to organize from the bottom, turning meetups into local committees and stringing those committees together into state coalitions and then tie things together at the top.
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ramapo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
151. Gutless bastards...sadly as expected
I wondered all along if the gutless bastards might actually turn out to have some spine. Well my worst assumption proved to be the closest to the truth. Gutless bastards indeed.

Our "60-vote filibuster proof majority" has turned out to be nothing more than a sham.

After nearly a year of "work", these gutless bastards will have produced a piece of legislation that does what exactly?

I'm not sure what is left except for a big gift to the insurance companies.

If you happen to have a pre-existing condition, where is the help?

If you have no choice of insurance as most of us do, where is the help?

If your premiums go up and up every year, whether you're an individual or small business, where is the help?

I am beyond disgusted. At least Republicans have the balls to enact their platform.

We are stuck with a bunch of lying, sniveling pieces of crap that are beholden to the lobbyists and big contributors.

Obama sat this out and our Democratic "leadership" has shown anything but leadership.

They can all go fuck themselves...I just get angrier and angrier the more I type so I better just stop right now.
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Peacetrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 11:45 AM
Response to Original message
157. Not me pal.. I am in to win.. not backing down one inch or leaving anything
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cry baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #157
181. +1
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DFW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #157
213. I'm with you there
Edited on Tue Dec-15-09 02:35 PM by DFW
There are lots of primaries next year, and incumbents don't get a free ride to their re-nomination if
the people of their state/district don't want them to (just ask Lieberman why he's an "independent").

When I first joined this board, I had to ask WHAT is NGU (never give up)? Now I ask WHERE is NGU?
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Rosa Luxemburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
160. I guess that our Senators and party chiefs still don't get it
Edited on Tue Dec-15-09 12:15 PM by Rosa Luxemburg
I'm sure Obama's team reads DU and realizes that The Democratic Party might have just lost many, many members.
We need to do well in 2010.

The only thing that can be salvaged now is for someone to come up with a new bill and sink the republicans.

Still there's a new year coming - remake remodel.
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Kansas Wyatt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #160
173. I'm sure Obama's team doesn't give a shit about what the DU or it's base wants.
The proof is in the people he surrounded himself with.
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Rosa Luxemburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #173
183. losing grassroots is not advisable
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Papagoose Donating Member (361 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 12:32 PM
Response to Original message
163. I'm with you
and I can't believe I've reached this point.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
168. Someone will replace you
There are 300 million people in this country. This is politics, not a soap opera.
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katkat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 12:49 PM
Response to Original message
174. donate to f Reid in his home state with an ad in hopes maybe he will grow a spine
Edited on Tue Dec-15-09 12:49 PM by katkat
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
178. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Robyn66 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
180. I have been one of the MOST starry eyed hopefull dems out here
until now. And if they have lost me, I can't imagine how everyone else is feeling. All I can think is REALLY how much worse would a republican administration be? I feel sick.
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humbled_opinion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 12:57 PM
Response to Original message
182. There is a Simple Solution
Scrap this crap and start again. This time do it the right way. Obama can still be the Hero. He needs to craft the exact legislation that he wants and that the PEOPLE will support and send it to the Senate and House....

Make it single payer, Make it medicare for all and the rest of the side issues will all fall into place i.e., No need to mandate something that everyone is eligilble for and every one will get.

Talk about Creating the conditions where doctors work for the people and you solve so many more issues. Kill the insurance industry completely.

but you have to be a strong leader that is confident that what you are doing is right by the American people.

Sadly we have more weak leaders then strong and have allowed the entire Healthcare debate to be derailed.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #182
185. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
lastone Donating Member (87 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 01:02 PM
Response to Original message
184. intent vs. results
Edited on Tue Dec-15-09 01:03 PM by lastone
while we work to bring a bipartisan HCR bill the "other side" (fucking nutbag, excuse me, teabaging fools) are laughing all the way to 2010. NO ONE CARES what your intent was, INTENT will not play in 10, if there is not a bill that addresses the real issues so many (myself included) Americans face regarding HC today then the right will run commercials making reid, pelosi and president obama look like the spineless jellyfish they are. dose anyone remember the last 8 years - there was NO ROOM AT THE INN for any dem. we could barley arrange a meeting in the basement let alone filibuster! it makes me sick, while we are playing "chess" they are playing "capture the flag" and turning the debate in their favor. strip lieberman of everything, for that matter make Connecticut recede and they can have this treacherous bastard. today we are are own worst enemy and I am SO SICK OF GOOD INTENTIONS AND RIDICULOUS RESULTS!
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soarsboard2 Donating Member (37 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 01:04 PM
Response to Original message
186. Frustration is Building Up
We need a DIRECT jobs program.
We need health care with a public option.
The banksters are in control.

People have just about had it.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 01:05 PM
Response to Original message
187. Election 2008 was a crushing defeat for 99% of Americans...
..those of us who have to work for a living.

After 45 years of straight line Democratic Party activism and voting, I'm DONE!.

This last insult (the Obama "HOPE" Administration) is forcing me to take a longer view, the birth of a political party that represents the Working Class.
This is going to be painful, and take some time, but the only other alternative is more of the same.
There are going to be some casualties.
The RICH has been AT WAR with the Working Class since Reagan.
They have had a 30 year head start, and have already "bought" what used to be the "Democratic Party".

It is well past time to start fighting back.

FDR and LBJ would puke if they were alive to witness what the "Democratic Party" has become.

Can you remember THIS "Democratic Party"?

"In our day these economic truths have become accepted as self-evident. We have accepted, so to speak, a second Bill of Rights under which a new basis of security and prosperity can be established for allregardless of station, race, or creed.

Among these are:

The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation;

The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;

The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;

The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;

The right of every family to a decent home;

The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;

The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;

The right to a good education.

All of these rights spell security. And after this war is won we must be prepared to move forward, in the implementation of these rights, to new goals of human happiness and well-being.

Americas own rightful place in the world depends in large part upon how fully these and similar rights have been carried into practice for our citizens.
---FDR, Economic Bill of Rights


Well, THAT Democratic Party is dead, DEAD, DEAD!

Do what you can to protect yourself.
Stop funding The Beast.
Buy nothing NEW.
Buy 2nd Hand or salvage and make it work...or do without.
If you have any money in Wall Street, Cash Out.
Do everything you can to stop using "credit".
Learn to Live Well on a low taxable income.

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smoogatz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 01:17 PM
Response to Original message
189. It's always good to post something like this from time to time.
It's sort of a troll round-up thread: like leaving a brick of cheese on the counter overnight when your house is infested with mice.

What recent events have shown me is that the Democrats in congress are almost as corrupt as the Republicans. Almost. The difference is that Republicans don't even pretend not to be corrupt: it's absolutely clear where their loyalties lie, and nobody expects anything different from them. To a man/woman, the Republicans vote in line with the corporate interests that put them in office. The Democratic caucus is another story--many are not corrupt, but those that are seem to have risen to places of considerable power. If Baucus loses his seat next time around, I won't be a bit sad; I hope we primary the piss out of him, and that goes for Nelson and numerous Blue Dogs in the House, too. Obviously, too, election finance reform should happen sooner rather than later, but it's hard to see it getting done anytime soon. Still, until there's a viable Progressive party, I'll continue to work to elect more and better Democrats. It's not about purity or even party loyalty; it's about simple pragmatism. When the choices suck, you go with the least bad choice. Sad as it is, that's still the Democrats.
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Peacetrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #189
190. I have to agree with you..that it has been fun watching them jump up like prairie dogs..
I keep checking back and watching the deletes grow..
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smoogatz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #190
191. Yep: and the mods have got their .22s cocked and ready.
There's a whole lot of tombstonin' goin' on.
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Peacetrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #191
192. You are right..sometimes we have to post these just to smoke them out.. before
they start to fester... :rofl: on the mods taking them out.. shootout at the OK corrall
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No Passaran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #192
223. And I haven't read a single deleted post
I keep coming back here late to see why it was deleted in the first place
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Puglover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #191
257.  Bullshit.
Thankfully the mods are way to smart to mistake people venting genuine and understandable anger for trolls.

Christ. :eyes:
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smoogatz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #257
280. If you'd been in on any of those deleted subthreads
Edited on Tue Dec-15-09 06:24 PM by smoogatz
you might actually know what you were talking about. But you weren't, and don't. Don't let that stop you from flapping your yap, though.
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Emillereid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
193. I too am EXTREMELY disappointed and I pledge to give money and support
to only those candidates that have been true to the progressive cause. I won't give a penny to the DNC or to Obama. Obama , though I can't help but like the guy, has shown by his choices, his priorities, his wars, his preemptive compromises, etc. that he doesn't have a progressive agenda. Maybe he meant to do better, but the ruling class and its military, and all its glitter and power, have replaced the community organizer with one of their own.
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newspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
194. I think that our Congress is on a stage for the benefit of the public
Without any government options, I believe the repugs love this bill. After all, they love anything that benefits wall street and corporations. Remember when the * administration shoved their "for pharma, against senior medicare" bill? Those repugs that had any decency and were against the bill, they bribed and threatened to get it passed. If this corporate health bill gets passed, do you really think the repukes will be against it? It's all show and they are all actors.

Anything that pushes our money towards the corporations and Wall Street, they are going to be rooting for. If they could fully privatize Social Security, and give that money to their wall street pals, they'd being doing it in a heartbeat. And that's why I will never ever vote for a repuke. They use fringe social issues, like abortion and immigration to appeal to their fringe base, while they're literally screwing them. But, the base can only think in one dimension and don't realize that they are being used for such purposes. Remember the e-mails to Reed? I believe that he was to influence his "screwy" base to effect gambling legislation.

I will only donate to progressive candidates from now on. And, if you really considered creating a new party, it should be a party platform on equality, campaign and voting reform, labor rights, corporate regulation and environment. Social issues, like abortion should be presented like Nader said, abortion should be between the woman, her doctor, her family and her clergy. And equality, should be for all--gender, race, sexual preference. And, I know I might get flamed, but throw gun rights in there--keep carrying permits and only special permits for certain assault weapons (as my boss once called them "people killers").
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tiredtoo Donating Member (81 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
195. Move on has a list of
Edited on Tue Dec-15-09 01:40 PM by tiredtoo
your Senators phone numbers. I just called both of my senators offices. One of them answered and i talked to a real person. The other I left a message. They both received this message.
Quote
My name is ..... ........ I am a retired registered voter in Michigan. I have campaigned vigorously for Democrats for years. I have donated money, I have make phone calls, I have knocked on doors, I have participated in rallies, I have stood on street corners in freezing rain holding signs for one candidate or another, and I have driven voters to the polls. However with the current conditions in Washington this is not going to happen again. Letting Lieberman and the insurance companies dictate how this health care bill will be written is too much. Until you start supporting the people who supported you I will not be donating 1 dime to you or your fellow candidates. These activities listed will become non-existent.
Thank you and good by. End Quote
The gentleman I talked to said. I will make sure the Senator gets your message.
Don't know if it did any good but it made me feel better.
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maryinthemorn Donating Member (115 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #195
198. Good.
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PuppyBismark Donating Member (200 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 01:40 PM
Response to Original message
197. Called the White House for What it is Worth.
I worked on the campaign for BO starting in May and went out every week, contributed my money and time. Told the WH there was no way I would do that again. BO's lack of leadership on health care is not excusable. I expected him to work for the people who elected him, not the business who have screwed up this country. I'm done with him and his party.
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No Passaran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 01:41 PM
Response to Original message
199. Lieberman Closer To Supporting Health Care Reform, But Not There Yet
ahahahahahahhahahaha

hilarious
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Autumn Colors Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
201. Yup....
Edited on Tue Dec-15-09 01:46 PM by Autumn Colors
I feel the same way.

I'm seriously considering voting Green Party or if some other worthy party runs a candidate in 2012... (and only for worthy progressive candidates in 2010 if any are running here) and I've voted Democratic ever since I started voting at age 18 (I'm 48 now).
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shotten99 Donating Member (478 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
202. Great. Let's welcome the fucking GOP back next year.
There are no fucking surprises here. This is a repeat of 93-94, and what's worse is that the GOP has NO credibility.
Pathetic. Circling firing squad because we can't get out of this mammoth hole in a year?
C'mon. Who the fuck thought anything differently? It's going to take some time.
Good lord....
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AngryAmish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
203. Isn't this post the equivalent of "Ban me right fucking now"?
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Butch350 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
204. You all take this POLITICS shit too serious...
...it's truly bad for your health. The days of Kennedy and the presidents before him are all gone.

There are no heroes anymore. There will be no president elected to office in the future that is going stand up for the
little americans.

Bye now, I'll let you all go back to your rising blood pressures. From what i've read here, i see a couple of nervous breakdowns,
1 heart attack, and three strokes in your futures. Hope you got good HEALTH INSURANCE!



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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 01:53 PM
Response to Original message
207. My sentiments precisely, No Passaran. Rec and kick. nt
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AngryOldDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
208. Definitely no offense taken.
I'm done as well. Fuck them all.

As for voting -- right now I'm on the fence about it too. I've been told time and again that my little, old vote counts for less than nothing, so I'm sure I can find something else to do with my time. Nothing makes a difference anymore, anyway. We are controlled by powers and forces much bigger than us, and I've come to the conclusion that there's nothing we can do about it. So screw it.
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Neecy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 02:01 PM
Response to Original message
209. It's quite a scheme, isn't it?
You pay for your mandated health insurance. A percentage of what you pay goes to insurance industry executives and shareholders.

You pay taxes, which fund the subsidies, a percentage of which goes to insurance industry executives and shareholders.

You get to pay twice for bloated executive salaries and to allow the precious 'investor class' to fill their pockets with your money.

It's quite the little scam, isn't it? And to have this foisted upon us by Democrats is really the final straw. I'm done, too. It's a game we can't win.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #209
216. That is a great little analysis.
Edited on Tue Dec-15-09 02:43 PM by truedelphi
very concise and easily repeated.

Thank you.

(And I am done too. The local Dems will get my vote - I love the "D" Supervisor of my County. But the bigger fish will not see my vote again, with just one or two exceptions. And Mr Lip Service Obama does not qualify.)
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 02:24 PM
Response to Original message
211. We need a democratic party, democratic with a small d. nt
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reflection Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 02:28 PM
Response to Original message
212. 232 replies and 232 recs at this time...
Edited on Tue Dec-15-09 02:30 PM by reflection
you have certainly resonated with this post.

on edit: some subthreads were deleted, hence the lower active number of replies...
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IsItJustMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 02:38 PM
Response to Original message
214. I won't be donating or voting anymore. Our system is completely corrupted. To further engage in
Edited on Tue Dec-15-09 02:39 PM by IsItJustMe
this insanity only encourages these SOB's. I have been voting for years now on the worst of two evils philosophy anyway. For me, it's no longer a good enough reason. I want to believe in something, not this shit.

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seeinfweggos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 02:51 PM
Response to Original message
218. don't let the door hit you
Buh bye
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No Passaran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #218
221. buh bye where noob?
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seeinfweggos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #221
229. the democratic party
somehow I'm sure we'll get by without you.
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No Passaran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #229
236. one by one
that's what YOU and those like YOU said in 1994
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seeinfweggos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #236
271. like i said, i'm sure we'll muddle through without you.
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No Passaran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #271
290. good for you
Just go be selfish and don't think about millions of those that are without health insurance. Like I said, I don't need this bill personally. I'm covered for life with my Army retirement, but I'm standing up for my neighbor and YOU
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seeinfweggos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #290
293. so you have nothing to worry about, unlike those of us who can't afford it
so you really have no stake in "killing the bill."
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No Passaran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #293
300. You have no idea what you're talking about
Not really surprised
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Iggo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 02:58 PM
Response to Original message
220. Offended? No.
Other? Yes.
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newfie11 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 03:13 PM
Response to Original message
225. I agree!
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UrbScotty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 03:21 PM
Response to Original message
228. Sarah Palin thanks you - Russ Feingold doesn't
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

So if Palin and other Republicans get their way, I'll remember to blame you.

Shameful. Shameful. Shameful.
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Sunnyshine Donating Member (698 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #228
240. Blaming voters for the failings of our alleged Democratic representatives
is very mavericky. The alleged good men doing nothing are the people who are in charge of the party.

Citizens not only get screwed, we then get blamed for the manner in which we are being screwed. You betcha!
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #240
269. "Centrists" always blame their failures (which are legion) on someon else.
Edited on Tue Dec-15-09 05:43 PM by Dr Fate
If centrists & conservatives fail to come out and donate to and campaign for a party that is centrist & conservative on the big issues, of course DEMS will blame someone else for this stratigic failure.

If DEMS want to be conservative centrists, then they need to blame conservatives & centrist voters & activists for not getting DEMS re-elected, not the pro-reform voters that DEMS are opposed to.
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Sunnyshine Donating Member (698 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #269
302. Why work hard to secure these insecure votes? Instant gratification and no sustainable impact maybe?
Edited on Tue Dec-15-09 08:39 PM by Sunnyshine
That is actually their goal- as it pays out quick just to give them a tiny banner of success to wave around- even though these bills are seemingly designed to fail because they were bad at the core. If it was on the table to begin with- all of this would have been done publicly with no back room deals via the gang of 6. Astoundingly obvious is that most of these bills did not stand up to, and have not been framed with our original freaking plans for a National Health Exchange.

What's worse is that they are giving in to a party that lives by their grand ability to destruct and obstruct. These mushy middle men do not care to leave many in the longest lines in life. They are short sighted and careless- constantly softening our basic principles.

Why the Gang of Six Is Deciding Health Care for Three Hundred Million of Us.

/to fix link
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #228
267. Sarah Palin also thanks the DLC's own JOE LIEBERMAN for campaigning for her.
And yet he and Rahm are still great buddies, apparently.

The time for DLCers like Lieberman to oppose, rather than support Sarah Palin has passed.

Joe was and continues to be rewarded for campaigning for Palin, rather than punished or marginalized.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 03:24 PM
Response to Original message
230. Even Schultz on the radio today was selling the idea "we need more Democrats!" . . .
What we need are more liberal/progressive Democrats who haven't been PRE-BRIBED and who

aren't PRE-OWNED by CORPORATIONS.

As Rep. Grayson was pointing out on Schultz today the Repugs passed the tax cuts for the rich

with 51 votes -- simple majority. Simply majority still exists, folks!!!

Grayson also mentioned Repugs passed the Latin American Trade Bill with 54 votes!!!

PLUS none of the health care stuff is intended to go into effect before 2012 -- which would

give the Repugs another whack at recking it if they were the majority.

People are dying and we're planning to give $600 BILLION to the insurance companies!!???

It's a downward spiral -- "third world America" --

What say we bail out of this ????

What's Plan B????

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juno jones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 03:24 PM
Response to Original message
231. K&R!
Edited on Tue Dec-15-09 03:25 PM by juno jones
I donated for the first time last election, thinking that things like the war and illegal surveillance could be changed.

Obviously I was scammed.

No more.

Chin up, and ignore those damn apparachiks who show up every time to waily-waily about how much worse it could possibly be if the republicans had their way. I agree it would suck but at least we'd not be stabbed in the back by what is ostenibly our own.
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blitzburgh55 Donating Member (320 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 03:27 PM
Response to Original message
232. No matter what, everyone needs to stick together
what we have now is still 100 times better than what the republicans will give us. If you give up we'll have the Bush years back, maybe worse starting in 2012..
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #232
274. So why aren't Blue Dogs & DLCers sticking together with the rest of the DEMS then?
Edited on Tue Dec-15-09 06:03 PM by Dr Fate
I see the vice, but not the versa.

Who is the top DEM saying that Blue Dogs & DLCers need to lock arms and "stick together" with pro-refrom progressives, not vice versa?

If Blue Dogs & DLCers would "stick together" with the base and the majority of DEM voters, then those same centrists would not have to threaten us with the Republican boogie man. Seems like a rigged game to me.

Sorry, but if Republicans come back, it will be the fault of "centrists" who REFUSED to "stick together" with most other DEMS, not the other way around.
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CrunchMaster Donating Member (308 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 03:27 PM
Response to Original message
233. Dems are either BOUGHT OFF or BLACKMAILED
They are doing the bidding of the Republicans for those of you who haven't figured it out yet. We are still in Iraq and Afghanistan. And healthcare reform has proven to be nothing but another hoax brought to you by the same shadow government that brought you 9/11. Time to wake up. How many more times are you going to get fooled before you demand Democrats do what we ask them to do? How about starting with the 9/11 false flag? We're spinning our wheels until we unveil the shadow government blackmailing and buying off the politicians. At this point I don't plan to vote for Obama next election unless he gets SOMETHING done that democrats and progressives have ask for instead of doing the bidding of Republicans.
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DeschutesRiver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 03:36 PM
Response to Original message
235. I completely agree
Edited on Tue Dec-15-09 03:39 PM by DeschutesRiver
I was more positive a few days ago about health care reform than I am now. I've watched the events of the last 48 hours and had a seismic change in my attitude. It isn't about Obama, who I still greatly admire and who I think is making the best of really bad situtations facing our country.

It is the damned Congress. Smug bastards living on nearly 200k a year, who refuse to give SS peeps a COLA raise, but won't be denied their own annual pay raise. Who've enjoyed better healthcare than the rest of us for decades and who are seeking to deny healthcare to the citizens who pay the bill for them and their families.

This was the first election ever that I donated tons of money to, and I am almost 52 years old. I will bide my time and hope for the best in how this health care dilemma resolves itself, but mark my words - I am an Independant who voted in every Democrat I could in order to get some relief from the crazy Republicans of the last 8 years. I was elated to see that Dems finally had a majority, only to discover that many of those elected Dems are behaving in a very undemocratic way - this has also disgusted me more than anything I've ever seen, even as you said, more so than the loss to Bush. I've never been this angry over the actions of the party I chose to help promote to power.

Both Democratic house and senate folk are making me sick to my stomach. If the majority of Democrats can't get me and my family, and everyone else's family decent health care, I will either not vote or vote straight Republican to see how many democrats can sit at home in 2010. I won't be fooled again, nor will I continue to enable those I vote into office to screw me on an issue like health care, as they sit back frigging smug as all get out demanding that I pay for theirs. No frigging way.

Health care reform, with a the majority dems enjoy, should be a cakewalk - it isn't that hard or complicated. However, there is simply more dems than I previously understood who do not want it to happen and are actively trying to take this away from me, my family and your family.

I can't believe I could say it, but I'd rather seeing frigging Sarah Palin in the WH than to let democrats who let me down on the health care issue enjoy their frigging perks for one more term. I hope the democratic majority does the right thing, even if on health care it is only a foot in the door - but let them continue balking and whining and taking money from the HC and pharma industry instead of tending to my needs, and I will do what I have to do in the voting booth.

If I even bother going to vote. And I will never donate another dime if this is the result with a democratic majority, it simply wasn't worth the money and time I put into it. I need to look after myself, not pad their pockets. Let them get donations from their insurance/pharma/oil/war buddies. I am just a bit red hot angry at recent events, and hope I cool down before 2010.
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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 03:40 PM
Response to Original message
237. I was done a long time ago
knr
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DuaneBidoux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 03:42 PM
Response to Original message
239. I'm not offended at all--although if you want pleasure try posting on Free Republic.
I'm sure they would give you some slaps on the back.
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whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 03:44 PM
Response to Original message
241. No offended at all...I feel the same way...Third Party time.
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Sunnyshine Donating Member (698 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 03:55 PM
Response to Original message
244. Not offended...but certainly sad that our supporters end up in the wood pile asking ourselves wtf?
Edited on Tue Dec-15-09 04:00 PM by Sunnyshine
Grew up in a conservative family- but supported the Democratic party at 16 before I could even vote.

After college or 10 years of labor- one see's the ugly and cold reality of politricks in America. Lesser of two evils does not appeal to my logic anymore. We the people should stop settling for last place and barely making it. It is a bogus deal no matter which way you vote and has been for a long time. Just cause it has lovely sweet icing on top does not mean I enjoy the shit they pile on us.

/words
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DWilliamsamh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 04:02 PM
Response to Original message
245. Not offended...I understand and feel the same level of anger....
But I reach a different conclusion. I want to work to get ALL the "conservatives" our of the way of progress, be they labeled with a D or and R. I am not a party line purity guy. I don't need "all" democrats to think alike - hell I wouldn't pass a "liberal purity" test on more than a couple points. But there are certain principles that Democrats were supposed to stand for and when one or two of them confound the very democratic ideal that PEOPLE - the VAST majority of this country - are more important and to be served above the interests of corporations and the tiny minority of the powerful rich.

The conclusion I reach - even as I wish Joe Lieberman, Max Baucus Et Al electoral DEATH - is that we HAVE to work for candidates that have a HISTORY of working for the little guy. When all is said and done Joe Lieberman should be stripped of his committee chair and ushered out of the caucus. His 60th vote is useless anyway so why let him continue to hold the party hostage and retain any power at all? Somehow I don't think Reid has the balls to do anything though. So the people of Nevada need to send a junior democratic Senator to be sworn into the Senate in 2011.

Sitting out is not an option - unless we want the Republicans (who don't event TRY to do anything for anyone that can't contribute five or six figures) back in charge.
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Sunnyshine Donating Member (698 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #245
252. Keep telling myself that- but think system prevents us from ever sitting in the cat bird seat.
They don't need chances or luck- for everything that is in their power, favor, and pockets.

We know they play an inside game of gotcha in Washington and our needed legislation is seen as a football to those in leadership. They live in a bubble and isolate voters purposely. That way- we go back and forth and back and forth. Confusion and drama covers up their inability. At what point do we just stop enabling the corruption, even when it is done on our watch and in our name?
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DWilliamsamh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #252
255. What is te alternative to fighting?
Fighting and only getting 10% is frustrating as hell. I agree. I get it.

But exiting the fight and watching things turn to SH#$% faster and faster, is MUCH worse. There is no choice here: fighting is the only thing that has a CHANCE of getting us anywhere. Battles are lost along the way. We get tired. We get heart broken by the defeats. Yet the fight MUST go on, because the alternative is literally death. Even this shitty bill saves SOME lives that would have been lost without it. I am PISSED OFF that this is ending how it is, but it is marginally better than it was. Marginally. But marginally better is preferable to the previous forty years status quo. KEEP FIGHTING!!

One of the fights that must be engaged and engaged HARD is campaign finance reform. Public funding of elections is the ONLY way to fix this corrupt system.
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Sunnyshine Donating Member (698 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #255
261. Never give up. The problem is- we are the ones fighting and they keep control of the goal posts.
Edited on Tue Dec-15-09 05:41 PM by Sunnyshine
We need progressive gains as a movement in order to keep people engaged. That way, people see their time and effort in politics as being fruitful. Our struggles against the power players of the last century has been a longer battle than any. They have the upper hand by ruling from their Washington thrones and seated by their bankers chairs. The very thing that prevents us from ever seeing progress in real time is money. Our media is complicit and our electorate is barely able to discern the good from the bad.

We are up against the giants- fighting them at the belt. We should be cutting them off at the knees.

Better Democratic candidates is one step, but even that is really not big enough to influence Washington. That's why they love the polarized labels and regurgitated talking points. It glazes over the eyes and leaves us numb to what the hell is really going on up there. Voting for one side over the other means nothing, if they act like one in the same when they arrive in D.C. Bad or worse is not a good compromise for me. Our movement should be blazing trails to attain publicly financed elections. Go for their jugular.

/vocab
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trekbiker Donating Member (724 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 04:02 PM
Response to Original message
247. its gotten so bad that Nixon actually seems like a liberal now....
and I hated tricky Dick for decades..
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katty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 04:22 PM
Response to Original message
249. add me-I am so done with the DNC
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sandyj999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #249
264. I am more than done if that is possible.
I am totally disgusted with this whole process or rather lack of it.
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #249
265. You should refuse to donate to the DNC- they give your donations to Blue Dog & DLC candidates.
Edited on Tue Dec-15-09 05:35 PM by Dr Fate
Support individual DEMS who stand up for your issues, not DEM orgs that funnel money to anti-reform conservatives.
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Puglover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 04:54 PM
Response to Original message
256. +Infinity
This whole charade has left me sickened. I don't know how 2010 will turn out however if what I think may happen happens, I wonder how many folks will wonder why.
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Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 05:23 PM
Response to Original message
259. They gave Joe the ballbat, and we are the baby seals.
And he is happy just clubbing us to death on a daily basis.

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dajoki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 05:31 PM
Response to Original message
263. K&R
I couldn't agree more!!
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 05:35 PM
Response to Original message
266. You're a good man & in voicing your disgust with our present party, you
speak for many of us.
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99 Percent Sure Donating Member (355 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 05:39 PM
Response to Original message
268. How can we mobilitze as Obama did when he tricked us into Change We Can Believe In
and Yes We Can, and start the truly Progressive Party? We don't need a fancy name, doesn't have to have green or any other label added to it, since by its very charter, these are the things for which the party would stand.

How can we use Mr. Dean's model as Obama did to reach all 50 states and begin a viable grassroots third party? That's what we need to be doing, now that we see the way this thing is going with President Obama and the democratic-led US Congress.

Should we contact Mr. Dean and ask for his assistance or at least his 50 state strategy template? It's time for We the People to realize no one is going to do it for us, we have to do it ourselves. We want a progressive party of the people, by the people and for the people and we want our progressive party to be a strong challenger to the other two corporate parties and their rich, corporate constituents.
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Nay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 05:50 PM
Response to Original message
270. Not affended, No Pasaran--I'm in the same boat. At least Howard
Dean has called for the bill to not pass. But it's gonna be hard for the Dems to win anything in 2010 or 2012 without showing some dedication to the constituents. All the independents and hopeful people of color are going to stay home if they are disappointed. And that's all I have to say.
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EmeraldCityGrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 05:56 PM
Response to Original message
272. You are entitled. Elections are just around the corner.
Vote your anger. We need to send a message with the only tool we have.

I voted Green during the last Senatorial race because of Cantewell's position on the War, Patriot Act etc.
I'll do it again if this Health Insurance Bill is nothing more than a windfall for Lieberman's insurance cronies.

Someone needs to explain to me why this creepy little man garners so much power in the Democratic Party.
All it does is confirm for many of us that the "Big Tent" has become a bottomless cavern against our best interests.

Dems are constantly bitching about Repukes voting against THEIR best interests, well what the hell are we doing?

Wake up peops.
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twitomy Donating Member (756 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 05:58 PM
Response to Original message
273. I like Dennis the Menace
Although I dont agree with him on all things, he is genuine and un "bought"
I would vote for him.
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DesertFlower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 06:13 PM
Response to Original message
277. i feel the same way.
i want to cry.
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grahamhgreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 06:19 PM
Response to Original message
278. 303 Rec's on the DU - Looks like the Dem Rep's and Prez need to come back to the Democratic Party!
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billymayshere Donating Member (71 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 06:20 PM
Response to Original message
279. What I want to know is
Are we still keeping our powder dry?
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katsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #279
298. Yes. We're keeping our powder dry, and
we won't let perfection become the enemy of the piss poor. As the matter of fact, we won't let the piss poor become the enemy of the tragic.

And while we're at it, we may as well accelerate the race to bottomest of bottoms because no man can be poor enough.

If we even have any powder to dry, we aren't poor enough for those thieves and grave robbers.
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tbyg52 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 06:26 PM
Response to Original message
281. I've been saying the same thing for quite a while.
I guess I have a lower threshold than you do....! ;->

What we really have is two factions of the one corporate party.
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mckara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 06:29 PM
Response to Original message
282. I Agree! What a Bunch of Spineless, Corporate Ass-Kissing Motherf***ers!
We need a new Progressive Party!
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RBInMaine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
284. The majority of the nation wants insurance reform, not a remake of the system. That is reality.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 06:46 PM
Response to Original message
285. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
No Passaran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #285
289. Dissent against who? Not DU. Not our principles
What's happening in Washington is going against our core principles of Democratic Party. I'm pretty sure mods feel the same way, disgusted with the way they threw poor Americans down the drain.

This is not a dissent against DU. I've been a member here from the beginning, when there were maybe 100 of us on the whole site. There are no hidden agendas here, maybe it takes a voice from a longtime member to start a thread like this and for someone up there in Washington to pay attention to what's about to happen.
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scentopine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 07:05 PM
Response to Original message
288. Democrats are the new republicans, republicans the new fascists...
today's democrats are every bit as repugnent as early neo-cons. In many ways more dangerous. Poorly educated with no perspective - hearing tales about FDR and the great depression that have been twisted by Wall Street and the rich.

We are raising citizens to expect living in a Wall Street oligarchy and a perpetual state of war with virtual enemies.

Sound familiar?

I'm sorry I won't be alive to say I told you so... but wait 20 years and dems and republicans will be caught up and wall street and washington one in the same with the emerging corporate citizen trumping ordinary citizens.

Slavery for the modern age.

And a hearty fuck you to all you smug corporate, realist, moderate, centrist, pramatic democrats who are simply republicans and will go back to being republican as soon as its "cool" again. A great big fuck you as your leadership continues to rape the rest of us via the US Treasury and taxes for war and insurance monopolies and wall street scum.

You had it all and you threw it all away.
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d3m0l1sh3r Donating Member (26 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 07:17 PM
Response to Original message
291. I agree
Keep your money, while it still has worth
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MissDeeds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 07:29 PM
Response to Original message
294. K&R
:kick:
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TheCowsCameHome Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 07:30 PM
Response to Original message
295. I hear ya. I hear ya. I hear ya.
and have to say you aren't alone.
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pokercat999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 07:57 PM
Response to Original message
297. It's not just Lier-man it's the so called liberal Dems, the
Harkins, the Kerry's, the Fiengold's....they can shut the Senate DOWN. All they have to do is join together with a few others and filibuster EVERY bill, until they get real reform. A living wage, single payer, a maximum wage, the disenfranchisement of corporations and the rights of citizens restored. The reinstatement of Glass-Siegel, the repeal of TARP....giving the government back to the people. They could do it all by bringing the Senate to a complete halt.....but they won't.

Just because they wear the "peoples champion" disguise, doesn't mean they aren't just closet corporate stooges.
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 08:11 PM
Response to Original message
299. I may not be able to sit out --
But I recommend your sentiment.
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oldtime dfl_er Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 08:34 PM
Response to Original message
303. Honestly it's time to throw 9/10ths of them out of office
STARTING with Joementum.

I have friggin HAD IT with Washington DC.
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jeffroby Donating Member (8 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #303
323. Start with the House -- it's easier
I've got a plan called the Full Court Press (see post 292 for a broader explanation). 435 Democratic primaries in 2012. Come aboard.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/12/4/810873/-for-a-F...

It's doable, and will make them pay!
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historian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 08:51 PM
Response to Original message
304. dont feel bad
when obama was running i posted asking if anyone was ready to face reality when he turned out to be the same as all the other shits in government. the answers i got were so vicious and nasty it almost seemed as if this was a right loonie site. Well there you have it - the truth finally emerges. Nothing will unless we follow Thomas Jeffersons words "In order to maintain democracy, we must have a revolution every (10?) yrs. He could see plainly that entrenched politicans lead to monolithic autocracy and so it has. Welcome America to the 3rd world. Take your place with the Sudan, Mynamar and Paraguay.
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historian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 08:52 PM
Response to Original message
305. yep
i have never sent money to anyone and i dont care what their political label is - they are all a bunch of shit heads and dont be fooled otherwise.
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ProgressOnTheMove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 09:41 PM
Response to Original message
307. Whether a person does it by Greens or Nadar folks have to stay in the game or it can only get worse
Edited on Tue Dec-15-09 09:55 PM by ProgressOnTheMove
as far as making things right folks like us paying attention are simply the only chance people have. If we abandon ship that is when all hope ends, it looks grim now but with sustained effort things can be turned around. Being realistic I think the war industry will take even longer but if it can be sorted domestically the rest will follow. The saying always holds true, despair is not an option. It's every individuals choice, but the facts are everything rests on us if we give up it is genuinely over. As one expert put it best the congress members who are captured are not worth it we have to strengthen those doing the right thing. Sounds like a sensible strategy, although the captured congress members must always be made aware when folks disagree with them.
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nomaco-10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 09:53 PM
Response to Original message
309. TELL IT LIKE IT IS!!!!!!! good job. n/t
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Richardo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 09:54 PM
Response to Original message
310. I don't expect to see 350+ whiny babies here in the morning.
Edited on Tue Dec-15-09 09:56 PM by Richardo
If they are here, they demonstrate the same attention span, commitment and bravado of so many keyboard commandos - at the end, power and fury, signifying nothing.

I wish a safe voyage back to their various home planets, where the government actually works the way they think this one does. :hi:
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harvey007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 10:03 PM
Response to Original message
311. Maybe Obama is The Joker
I voted for Obama to end the war and get health care for all.

I am so pissed that he let Rahm and Traitor Joe and a handful of others DESTROY health care reform.

I shelled out $25 for Obama, worked for him, wore his T-shirt, put his sign in my front yard, made phone calls, etc., etc. and now I feel used and dirty.

I'm a lifetime member of the Democratic party who's ready to leave.
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harvey007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #311
316. Look how Dem Senators Voted on the Dorgan amendment!
Edited on Tue Dec-15-09 10:17 PM by harvey007
The Dorgan amendment to allow the importation of less expensive pharmaceutical drugs from Canada and a few other countries should have passed. This was a pro-consumer amendment all Dems should have supported. But look what happened -- it's a good indication of how many are in the pockets of big pharma.

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/r...
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bloomington-lib Donating Member (513 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 10:10 PM
Response to Original message
313. Change Democratic Underground to Underground Progressive
Edited on Tue Dec-15-09 10:11 PM by bloomington-lib
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Toasterlad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #313
326. DU Will Cease to Exist in 2010 Without Making This Change.
Edited on Tue Dec-15-09 11:46 PM by Toasterlad
If this site doesn't switch from Democratic Underground to Progressive Underground by 2010, this place will destroy itself in the primaries. This place could survive Bush: it was DESIGNED to raise voices against him. It could survive the primaries of the 2008 elections, because all candidates were more or less unknown quantities, as far as the presidency was concerned. But this place CANNOT survive the bitterness and disillusionment of the angry voters who will be actively speaking out against Democratic candidates in 2010.

As the rules now stand, the tombstoning in the 2010 primaries will be EPIC. And many MORE people will just get fed up with the endless, moronic, blind cheerleading and leave of their own accord. In the end. DU will become what it's flirted with becoming since Obama was elected: a teeny-bopper fan page that ignores reality and supports a corrupt system at the expense of logic, conviction, or patriotism. A mirror-image of Free Republic, if you will.

The only chance for DU to survive is to acknowledge that the Democratic party as envisioned no longer exists, and to shift its ideology away from that party of liars and corporatists, and embrace a true liberal, progressive sensibility. Anything else is just masturbation.
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Shagbark Hickory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 10:17 PM
Response to Original message
317. Looks like you have some support on this one
+1
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Laelth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 10:32 PM
Response to Original message
319. k&r for righteous anger. n/t
:dem:

-Laelth
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alp227 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 11:10 PM
Response to Original message
324. THIRD PARTIES! THIRD PARTIES!
How about instead of "sitting out" the next election you vote for a candidate whose views you support but who is not necessarily with the Democrats? I'm open-minded to vote for a non-Democrat if that candidate will do a better job fixing what's wrong with government than a D or R. I can't believe that right-wingnut intimidation killed the public option and penetrated progressivism.
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ncteechur Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 11:44 PM
Response to Original message
325. That is your decision but please take your vitriol away from DU - we are democrats here.
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No Passaran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 05:11 AM
Response to Reply #325
330. Oh really? So am I
Nice to meet you. Mine however, starts with a small letter "d"
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tranche Donating Member (913 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 02:23 AM
Response to Original message
328. No More Democrats!
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democracy1st Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 02:43 AM
Response to Original message
329. Kick
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johnlucas Donating Member (248 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
332. ALL the Parties need to go to hell
Edited on Wed Dec-16-09 12:30 PM by johnlucas
Yeah I said it. That means Democrats, Republicans, Libertarian, Green, Whig, Know-Nothing, whatever.

NO party neither mainstream nor "3rd party" is gonna save you from this madness.

It's as simple as this:
Power Corrupts, Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely.

Today's "3rd party saviors" are tomorrow's "mainstream party tyrants".

This whole idea that "The People" have a say in government affairs is, has, & will always be an illusion.
Remember it was those same "Founding Fathers" that didn't even trust "They The People" with voting preferring to set up an Electoral College instead.

Power will never give up its reign willingly unless there's another Power threatening it to.

This whole system is all set up to tamp down Revolutions.
You are only to be annoyed but never enraged & ready to act in meaningful ways.

They tell you to write to your congressmen & all that jazz. Never did a damn thing.

The People's Power is real but systematically diluted & divided.
How can a Few rule Many anyhow if not given permission by that Many?
The Many fight amongst themselves for endless reasons & the Few do just enough to keep up appearances.
To keep up the Suspension of Disbelief.

I'm telling ya more people need to stop looking down on Pro Wrestling. It has really taught me so much about life.
The whole show is about suspending your disbelief so you can really believe in those feuds & those fights.
Not a damn thing different in Pro Politics. Faces, heels, good cop, bad cop. All buddies in real life behind the curtain.

This thing almost sounds like a religion to me. Putting so much faith behind one man/woman as if that's the key to success.
Look to yourself. Quit waiting on saviors.

Yeah a little part of me believed in it not so long ago. I voted last election suspending my cynicism just enough to see if progress could really be made from the political arena. I have my final answer now. It doesn't. It never has. Never will.

All I can tell you to do is flex your numbers if you wanna have a chance at real change. It's hard to blow off 300,000,000 people.
John Lucas
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smitty Donating Member (580 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 03:17 PM
Response to Original message
333. So what's everyone going to do? Start a third party?
Sit out the next election? Vote Republican? All are wastes of time.
We're stuck with what we voted for, and like good little proles we'll vote for them again. I don't like having to say this but I'm afraid it's true.
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