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babsbunny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-12-09 12:47 PM
Original message
Blistering Indictment Leveled Against Obama Over His Handling of Bush-Era War Crimes
Blistering Indictment Leveled Against Obama Over His Handling of Bush-Era War Crimes

http://www.truthout.org/12110911

Saturday 12 December 2009

by: Jason Leopold, t r u t h o u t | Report

During his 36-minute speech upon accepting the Nobel Peace Prize in Oslo, Norway Thursday, President Barack Obama explained to an audience of 1,000 how the United States has a "moral and strategic interest" in abiding by a code of conduct when waging war - even one that pits the US against a "vicious adversary that abides by no rules."
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-12-09 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
1. Leopold bashing begins in 5...4...3...
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-12-09 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. I am not going to bash Jason Leopard
I have no reason to do so.

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The Straight Story Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-12-09 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #1
25. I won't bash him for 24 business hours
:rofl: :evilgrin:
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seeinfweggos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-12-09 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
2. obama ended the bush torture policy
but who cares right?

Kucinich/Little Green Men 2012!
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-12-09 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Ended?
There is no end until the perps are behind bars. No one is safe until then.
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seeinfweggos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-12-09 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. yes, he ended it. pay attention
that and prosecuting the perps are two different things.
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-12-09 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. you wish
You hadn't heard about the secret prisons in Afghanistan? You think Cheney's bastards are NOT still in the ranks?

I guess, like most Americans, you eat everything the M$M feeds you?

Sure O says it's over, but it ain't over yet. Cheney's goons are still at work.
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seeinfweggos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-12-09 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. you have some sort of proof obama is torturing people?
that's a hell of an alegation to just pull out of your ass.
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-12-09 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #9
29. Obama, no
You think Obama knows what everyone in the gov is doing? Geez.

I clearly said Cheney's goons are still in there torturing. You think those criminals said: Ok Obama's pres, we'll just quit now?
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-12-09 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. Bagram and rendition might offer some insight or answers.
Edited on Sat Dec-12-09 01:15 PM by mmonk
Without enforcement through exercise of law, the door is still open.
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Lars39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-12-09 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. You sure about that?
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seeinfweggos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-12-09 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. that link has nothing to do with ending torture
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Lars39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-12-09 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. It secures it for future presidencies.
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nosmokes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-12-09 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #2
10. On what planet?
Because here on Earth the mofo is still running secret prisons in third countries and you don't do that just for a change of scenery.
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seeinfweggos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-12-09 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. you have proof of this?
please share
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dixiegrrrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-12-09 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #2
11. ended it?
What about this:

Published: November 28, 2009

KABUL, Afghanistan — An American military detention camp in Afghanistan is still holding inmates, sometimes for weeks at a time, without access to the International Committee of the Red Cross, according to human rights researchers and former detainees held at the site on the Bagram Air Base.

The site, known to detainees as the black jail, consists of individual windowless concrete cells, each illuminated by a single light bulb glowing 24 hours a day. In interviews, former detainees said that their only human contact was at twice-daily interrogation sessions.
The jail’s operation highlights a tension between President Obama’s goal to improve detention conditions that had drawn condemnation under the Bush administration and his stated desire to give military commanders leeway to operate. While Mr. Obama signed an order to eliminate so-called black sites run by the Central Intelligence Agency in January, it did not also close this jail, which is run by military Special Operations forces.

Military officials said as recently as this summer that the Afghanistan jail and another like it at the Balad Air Base in Iraq were being used to interrogate high-value detainees. And officials said recently that there were no plans to close the jails.

“They beat up other people in the black jail, but not me,” Hamidullah said. “But the problem was that they didn’t let me sleep. There was shouting noise so you couldn’t sleep."
Others, however, have given accounts of abuse at the site, including two Afghan teenagers who told The Washington Post that they had been subjected to beatings and humiliation by American guards.


http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/29/world/asia/29bagram.html?_r=1
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seeinfweggos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-12-09 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. if anyone is being interogated outside of the rules of the army field manual
they are violating orders of their CIC.
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dixiegrrrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-12-09 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. Dupe
Edited on Sat Dec-12-09 01:31 PM by dixiegrrrrl
nt
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dixiegrrrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-12-09 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #16
22. Wait a minute...you go from "ended it"
to "outside rules of army field manual"
after I show you a report that there are still black prisons run by part of our government?

Let's come back to the point, shall we?
You said Obama ended torture.

THIS is not ending torture:
While Mr. Obama signed an order to eliminate so-called black sites run by the Central Intelligence Agency in January, it did not also close this jail, which is run by military Special Operations forces.

End of discussion.
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seeinfweggos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-12-09 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. Ensuring Lawful Interrogations
Ensuring Lawful Interrogations
EXECUTIVE ORDER -- ENSURING LAWFUL INTERROGATIONS



By the authority vested in me by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, in order to improve the effectiveness of human intelligence gathering, to promote the safe, lawful, and humane treatment of individuals in United States custody and of United States personnel who are detained in armed conflicts, to ensure compliance with the treaty obligations of the United States, including the Geneva Conventions, and to take care that the laws of the United States are faithfully executed, I hereby order as follows:

Section 1. Revocation. Executive Order 13440 of July 20, 2007, is revoked. All executive directives, orders, and regulations inconsistent with this order, including but not limited to those issued to or by the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) from September 11, 2001, to January 20, 2009, concerning detention or the interrogation of detained individuals, are revoked to the extent of their inconsistency with this order. Heads of departments and agencies shall take all necessary steps to ensure that all directives, orders, and regulations of their respective departments or agencies are consistent with this order. Upon request, the Attorney General shall provide guidance about which directives, orders, and regulations are inconsistent with this order.

Sec. 2. Definitions. As used in this order:

(a) "Army Field Manual 2 22.3" means FM 2-22.3, Human Intelligence Collector Operations, issued by the Department of the Army on September 6, 2006.

(b) "Army Field Manual 34-52" means FM 34-52, Intelligence Interrogation, issued by the Department of the Army on May 8, 1987.

(c) "Common Article 3" means Article 3 of each of the Geneva Conventions.

(d) "Convention Against Torture" means the Convention Against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment, December 10, 1984, 1465 U.N.T.S. 85, S. Treaty Doc. No. 100 20 (1988).

(e) "Geneva Conventions" means:

(i) the Convention for the Amelioration of the Condition of the Wounded and Sick in Armed Forces in the Field, August 12, 1949 (6 UST 3114);

(ii) the Convention for the Amelioration of the Condition of Wounded, Sick and Shipwrecked Members of Armed Forces at Sea, August 12, 1949 (6 UST 3217);

(iii) the Convention Relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War, August 12, 1949 (6 UST 3316); and

(iv) the Convention Relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War, August 12, 1949 (6 UST 3516).

(f) "Treated humanely," "violence to life and person," "murder of all kinds," "mutilation," "cruel treatment," "torture," "outrages upon personal dignity," and "humiliating and degrading treatment" refer to, and have the same meaning as, those same terms in Common Article 3.

(g) The terms "detention facilities" and "detention facility" in section 4(a) of this order do not refer to facilities used only to hold people on a short-term, transitory basis.

Sec. 3. Standards and Practices for Interrogation of Individuals in the Custody or Control of the United States in Armed Conflicts.

(a) Common Article 3 Standards as a Minimum Baseline. Consistent with the requirements of the Federal torture statute, 18 U.S.C. 2340 2340A, section 1003 of the Detainee Treatment Act of 2005, 42 U.S.C. 2000dd, the Convention Against Torture, Common Article 3, and other laws regulating the treatment and interrogation of individuals detained in any armed conflict, such persons shall in all circumstances be treated humanely and shall not be subjected to violence to life and person (including murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment, and torture), nor to outrages upon personal dignity (including humiliating and degrading treatment), whenever such individuals are in the custody or under the effective control of an officer, employee, or other agent of the United States Government or detained within a facility owned, operated, or controlled by a department or agency of the United States.

(b) Interrogation Techniques and Interrogation-Related Treatment. Effective immediately, an individual in the custody or under the effective control of an officer, employee, or other agent of the United States Government, or detained within a facility owned, operated, or controlled by a department or agency of the United States, in any armed conflict, shall not be subjected to any interrogation technique or approach, or any treatment related to interrogation, that is not authorized by and listed in Army Field Manual 2 22.3 (Manual). Interrogation techniques, approaches, and treatments described in the Manual shall be implemented strictly in accord with the principles, processes, conditions, and limitations the Manual prescribes. Where processes required by the Manual, such as a requirement of approval by specified Department of Defense officials, are inapposite to a department or an agency other than the Department of Defense, such a department or agency shall use processes that are substantially equivalent to the processes the Manual prescribes for the Department of Defense. Nothing in this section shall preclude the Federal Bureau of Investigation, or other Federal law enforcement agencies, from continuing to use authorized, non-coercive techniques of interrogation that are designed to elicit voluntary statements and do not involve the use of force, threats, or promises.

(c) Interpretations of Common Article 3 and the Army Field Manual. From this day forward, unless the Attorney General with appropriate consultation provides further guidance, officers, employees, and other agents of the United States Government may, in conducting interrogations, act in reliance upon Army Field Manual 2 22.3, but may not, in conducting interrogations, rely upon any interpretation of the law governing interrogation -- including interpretations of Federal criminal laws, the Convention Against Torture, Common Article 3, Army Field Manual 2 22.3, and its predecessor document, Army Field Manual 34 52 issued by the Department of Justice between September 11, 2001, and January 20, 2009.

Sec. 4. Prohibition of Certain Detention Facilities, and Red Cross Access to Detained Individuals.

(a) CIA Detention. The CIA shall close as expeditiously as possible any detention facilities that it currently operates and shall not operate any such detention facility in the future.

(b) International Committee of the Red Cross Access to Detained Individuals. All departments and agencies of the Federal Government shall provide the International Committee of the Red Cross with notification of, and timely access to, any individual detained in any armed conflict in the custody or under the effective control of an officer, employee, or other agent of the United States Government or detained within a facility owned, operated, or controlled by a department or agency of the United States Government, consistent with Department of Defense regulations and policies.

Sec. 5. Special Interagency Task Force on Interrogation and Transfer Policies.

(a) Establishment of Special Interagency Task Force. There shall be established a Special Task Force on Interrogation and Transfer Policies (Special Task Force) to review interrogation and transfer policies.

(b) Membership. The Special Task Force shall consist of the following members, or their designees:

(i) the Attorney General, who shall serve as Chair;

(ii) the Director of National Intelligence, who shall serve as Co-Vice-Chair;

(iii) the Secretary of Defense, who shall serve as Co-Vice-Chair;

(iv) the Secretary of State;

(v) the Secretary of Homeland Security;

(vi) the Director of the Central Intelligence Agency;

(vii) the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff; and

(viii) other officers or full-time or permanent part time employees of the United States, as determined by the Chair, with the concurrence of the head of the department or agency concerned.

(c) Staff. The Chair may designate officers and employees within the Department of Justice to serve as staff to support the Special Task Force. At the request of the Chair, officers and employees from other departments or agencies may serve on the Special Task Force with the concurrence of the head of the department or agency that employ such individuals. Such staff must be officers or full-time or permanent part-time employees of the United States. The Chair shall designate an officer or employee of the Department of Justice to serve as the Executive Secretary of the Special Task Force.

(d) Operation. The Chair shall convene meetings of the Special Task Force, determine its agenda, and direct its work. The Chair may establish and direct subgroups of the Special Task Force, consisting exclusively of members of the Special Task Force, to deal with particular subjects.

(e) Mission. The mission of the Special Task Force shall be:

(i) to study and evaluate whether the interrogation practices and techniques in Army Field Manual 2 22.3, when employed by departments or agencies outside the military, provide an appropriate means of acquiring the intelligence necessary to protect the Nation, and, if warranted, to recommend any additional or different guidance for other departments or agencies; and

(ii) to study and evaluate the practices of transferring individuals to other nations in order to ensure that such practices comply with the domestic laws, international obligations, and policies of the United States and do not result in the transfer of individuals to other nations to face torture or otherwise for the purpose, or with the effect, of undermining or circumventing the commitments or obligations of the United States to ensure the humane treatment of individuals in its custody or control.

(f) Administration. The Special Task Force shall be established for administrative purposes within the Department of Justice and the Department of Justice shall, to
the extent permitted by law and subject to the availability of appropriations, provide administrative support and funding for the Special Task Force.

(g) Recommendations. The Special Task Force shall provide a report to the President, through the Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs and the Counsel to the President, on the matters set forth in subsection (d) within 180 days of the date of this order, unless the Chair determines that an extension is necessary.

(h) Termination. The Chair shall terminate the Special Task Force upon the completion of its duties.

Sec. 6. Construction with Other Laws. Nothing in this order shall be construed to affect the obligations of officers, employees, and other agents of the United States Government to comply with all pertinent laws and treaties of the United States governing detention and interrogation, including but not limited to: the Fifth and Eighth Amendments to the United States Constitution; the Federal torture statute, 18 U.S.C. 2340 2340A; the War Crimes Act, 18 U.S.C. 2441; the Federal assault statute, 18 U.S.C. 113; the Federal maiming statute, 18 U.S.C. 114; the Federal "stalking" statute, 18 U.S.C. 2261A; articles 93, 124, 128, and 134 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice, 10 U.S.C. 893, 924, 928, and 934; section 1003 of the Detainee Treatment Act of 2005, 42 U.S.C. 2000dd; section 6(c) of the Military Commissions Act of 2006, Public Law 109 366; the Geneva Conventions; and the Convention Against Torture. Nothing in this order shall be construed to diminish any rights that any individual may have under these or other laws and treaties. This order is not intended to, and does not, create any right or benefit, substantive or procedural, enforceable at law or in equity against the United States, its departments, agencies, or other entities, its officers or employees, or any other person.

BARACK OBAMA

THE WHITE HOUSE,
January 22, 2009

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/EnsuringLawfulInterrogations/
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-12-09 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #2
14. It's like it never happened. n/t
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seeinfweggos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-12-09 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. no, it happened under bush/cheney
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-12-09 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. And I guess we'll just sweep that piece of history under the rug.
which is the central point of the article.
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seeinfweggos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-12-09 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. no, i think we are all aware of it
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-12-09 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. Not good enough. n/t
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libertypirate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-12-09 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #2
18. I am sorry but you really aren't that bright!
People like you really tick me off. If no ones accountable it will surely happen again and again and again.

Without accountability our system is a meaningless pile of words unrelated to our reality.
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seeinfweggos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-12-09 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #18
27. when did i ever say people shouldn't be held accountable?
really, please point out to me when I EVER said that. don't make shit up and accuse me of it.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-12-09 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #2
31. Obama didn't END torture.
He merely outsourced it.

Rendition to countries that DO torture continues unabated.
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NoUsername Donating Member (265 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 02:22 AM
Response to Reply #31
33. Exactly.
Moving torture to another location doesn't qualify as "ending" it by any stretch of the imagination.
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-12-09 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
23. K&R.
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Overseas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-12-09 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
28. K&R. //nt
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Lord Helmet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-12-09 02:28 PM
Response to Original message
30. I think it's a mistake not prosecuting torture.
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 01:01 AM
Response to Original message
32. Hard to see this as glass half full.
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