I would demand my country back... if I had ever had it.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

Face it. We never had our country in the first place if by "we" one means most folks, average joes and janes.

The best white people ever had it was roughly 1955-1963. High relative wages. Low income disparity. Record union participation. No shooting wars. Tremendous upward mobility, by historical standards. Record numbers of college attendees from families that had never dreamed of college.

But even for all that it was also the beginning of corrosive electronic media driven consumerism and the alienation of people into isolated nuclear families that were like dysfunctional fortresses. And you did stand a decent chance from day to day of finding out if that "duck and cover!" stuff worked against H-bombs.

Women didn't have it so good back in those halcyon days. Choice? Ha! The pill didn't even exist yet. Career? Yeah, if you were willing to be sneered at for your failure to find a man to provide for you. And paid a lot less. And have less talented men promoted over you because they had wives to support.

And creative folks might not long for a time when you could go to prison for selling merely racy literature.

And non-white folks probably don't pine for circa 1960! I assume that statement can stand on its own. And gay folks... well, officially they didn't really exist in 1960. Sorry.

Bottom line, the average person never had this country. It never stood for his interests except insofar as that kept him compliant.

And that's not a problem with America in particular. The average person has always been a foot-rest, pretty much everywhere and always. Humans are hierarchical critters and it takes a lot more people to carry a sedan chair than to sit in one.

So I will stick with, "I would like to have my country... for a change."

[NightWatcher]

1. for me to say, " I want my country back", I'd have to look back to 1491

damned white people

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

3. Yeah, but you took it from somebody else.

There were waves of immigration from Asia with the successive waves murdering their way across the land.

And you guys hunted almost every large mammal here to extinction. Thanks! Now I never get to see an 18 foot tall sloth.

:cry:

Truth be told, people are pretty problematic creatures.

[NightWatcher]

9. ? the Native Peoples hunted the large mammals to extinction?

you've been reading too many of the white man's history books

[cali]

10. Romanticizing any group of people is dangerous. Not as dangerous

as demonizing them, but not so unrelated either. Around G-D, the romanticizing of "the people" is endemic. The great and noble proletariat is not actually great or noble. It's composed of people like any other segment of society. And when folks aren't romanticizing the working class, they're sneering at them. Just people, with the foibles that come with being human often compoounded by a lack of education.

[proteus_lives]

11. So you're not a US citizen?

Your racism is amusing.

[NightWatcher]

12. I am a US citizen but I have ancestors who were here before there was a USA

So YES, I do wish that my people had their country back. Back before it was taken by conquistadores and Europeans. before it was exploited and stripped raw of it's resources and beauty.

I see the way that the Native People have been warehoused and housed in reservations while their land was raped out from under them and it makes me cry.

So yes, I do want my country back. Back from the people who stole it from those who were here first, those who were living in harmony with the land.

[cali]

14. As I said in a prior post, romanticizing any group of people is a fundamental

mistake. And I'm willing to hazard a guess that you have white devil ancestry as well as Native American.

[NightWatcher]

16. not romanticizing, the OP's question was "I want it back if I ever had it"

this country was inhabited by other people prior to the European Invasion.

the "whitey" stuff was a joke, Jeez, I am part white too......but I cant prove it.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

18. This white devil got that you were being humorous, BTW

But one never knows for sure...

the internet.

[NightWatcher]

19. without the :sarcasm: you cant tell inflection......damn this series of tubes

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

17. I hear you, but we are ALL descended from a small group of folks from

I hear you, but we are ALL descended from a small group of folks from Ethiopia who busted out of Africa and killed off all the other developed hominids around the world who had left Africa earlier.

We wiped out the Neanderthals. We probably ate them too. Your ancestors and my ancestors did that.

And the natural beauty of the land we share today is as lost to me as it is to you.

For good or ill we are all in it together.

[proteus_lives]

20. That was never your country unless you're over 500 years old..

You're living in your country for better or worse.

My ancestors used to live in the independent kingdom of Scotland. Should I go and claim my clan's old stomping grounds from the Englishmen that stole it?

"So yes, I do want my country back. Back from the people who stole it from those who were here first, those who were living in harmony with the land."

So racism huh? Myth of the Noble Savage? This continent was not a peaceful utopia before the Europeans came. The Native People were and are humans so they're subject to the same failings that the "damn white people" are.

[treestar]

2. We do vote for our leaders though

so maybe we do have the country we want - and average Janes and Joes aren't always so heroic or smart of wonderful just for being average. They watch TV, let the ads affect them, and vote accordingly. If they really cared, they'd look into things more.

Hard for me to see them as victims. We could be living in a country where we didn't get to pick our own leaders and where there is ongoing strife and more poverty. We really have it good by world standards. So we look bad trying to claim we're such victims.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

6. Excellent post.

Yes, we get what we get because we are willing to accept it.

And by "we" I mean people.

People accepted kings because it is in our nature to be comfortable with being pushed around.

And that's because groups of indiviualists were wiped out by groups who could get an army together and be willing to die for things that didn't much benefit them.

It is likely that nations/tribes with compliant citizens tended to out-compete "cat herding" nations.

[GreenPartyVoter]

8. We can only vote for who is put on the ballot. So while we definitely have it better than

some places there is still plenty of room for improvement. (Such as finding a better alternative to plurality voting, using only public monies for campaigns, and proportional representation for starters. Better media reporting would be great too.)

[cali]

4. said perfectly. the golden age nonsense is just that- for the most part

recced.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

7. Thank you Cali. That is meaningful to me.

[virgogal]

5. Aaaah,give us time. We are a very young country. Cheer up!

[johnlucas]

13. Your post was some of the realest talk I have ever heard on this board.

Kurt_And_Hunter, you know true history. I love the way you put things into perspective.
So many buy into either one lie or another somewhere. But you saw things as they were & have always been historically.

The U.S.A. was supposed to be a step towards the people having a say on how the country develops but early on & I'm talking like 1700's early on it was compromised & watered down. How DOES power really dilute itself? And WOULD power dilute itself in the first place? That's the question any citizen of the world must ask. Do those in power REALLY want to give up their power on their own volition?

You're right. I'm Black. Born in the year 1976. No way in HELL do I want to go back to the 50's & 60's!!

What is needed is not more participation in this system but a total overhaul with REAL checks & balances. Checks & balances that deal with the ruler's wallets & lives. Only THEN will they take the regular folk seriously when they make these cockamamie self-serving plans.
John Lucas

[asdjrocky]

15. That's pretty good.

I can't find much of anything to disagree with there.

[timeforpeace]

21. +1. Another excellent, thought provoking and insightful essay.

[cali]

22. kick for something smart.