Just how bad was it when President Obama took office ?

[kentuck]

If we are thirsty, we tend to forget how thirsty, once we have a good cool drink of water. Once we are hungry, we tend to forget how hungry, once there is a feast on the table. I'm not saying that everything is now hunky-dory.

I do recall that the stock market was dropping like a rock. Five or six hundred points in a day was not uncommon. The Dow sunk to about 6700 before it started going back up. People were losing their life savings in their 401K's. We were losing jobs at 600 -700,000 per month. The world economy was in danger of collapse. The capitalist system had to be given artificial respiration in order to survive. This President, the socialist that he is, chose to save the capitalist system.

Granted, we are still in very bad shape. However, we have to admit that it is not as bad as it was in January of last year. We can now disagree with the job the President and the Democratic Congress is doing but we cannot disagree that there is improvement over January of 2009. We can debate about what we think should happen but we are no longer as thirsty or hungry as we once were.

To listen to the Republicans, one might think we were in an economic boom when they left office. But the sad fact is that they left a mess so humongous that no one knows how long it will take to clean up. But, once there is enough improvement, the people will repeat their mistakes of the past and put the Republicans back in power once again, only to see them make another mess and the cycle repeats itself. However, it will be difficult for them to break the gold standard of George W Bush and the last Republican Congress.


...

[tabatha]

1. I don't think many here appreciate how bad it was.

[arcadian]

18. I'm looking around...

And the lyrics from that Talking Heads song seem to pop into my head, 'Same as it ever was...'

[NYC_SKP]

36. And many don't appreciate how totally fucked up it was about to become.

That it's taking longer than we'd all like to to turn around shouldn't cause people to lose perspective.

But it does.

[graywarrior]

2. It was a clusterfuck and FUBAR

[Fire1]

37. To the second power. n/t

[tandot]

3. If you go by what some DUers say, everything was great and he screwed it up

and for the few bad things that he inherited, he should have fixed it within the first couple of weeks in office.

[xiamiam]

4. it was really bad...its worse now..nt

[kentuck]

6. Do you think the President made it worse?

I disagree. Although I think the President should have done many things differently, I do not underestimate the mess that he inherited.

[xiamiam]

i think he should have supported the bankruptcy bill as he said he would do in the spring

that would have stemmed the foreclosure mess..or at least helped..
given our economic situation, the escalation in afghanistan is ridiculous...and once again, does not serve the interest of the middle class...everyone says, oh yeah , but he said he would do it during the campaign..well a helluva lot has changed since the campaign ...one in four children now on foodstamps..millions of americans losing their homes and jobs..confidence eroding as we are shocked that our lives may never be the same...

and lets not even talk about wall street, and their bonuses, geithner and summers..

at least before, we knew who was taking us down...now, the lines have blurred

[kentuck]

9. So you think he has shown enough already to be judged?

No matter what he does in the next 3 years?

[xiamiam]

17. what makes you think he do anything differently from what he is already doing?

i've got no choice but to be hopeful...but im not stupid...and i do see the way this has been playing out..although i wish it were not so

[kentuck]

21. I think the first thing a drowning man looks for is something to grab onto...

Our country was drowning. The President, right or wrong, thought the best way to save our country was to save thebanking system. Many of us disagree with the way the bailouts have gone.

The problems were not set in stone and absolute when he came into office. They were spiraling downward. He probably underestimated the opposition on the healthcare bill from the Republican Party. He thought he could get at least one. They spit in his face. And America's face, for that matter. They have never appreciated or understood the gravity of our problems. Nothing a tax cut could not fix, in their opinion.

It is not playing out for the benefit of the people, I would agree. But they are tackling the problems as they occur. Nobody knows how bad it will still get. In the end, it is up to us to change the system.

[xiamiam]

23. more and more difficult, kentuck for us to change the system

the bailouts are one aspect..so much is demoralizing...even yesterdays news that the white house is seeking charges against john yoo dismissed...and no efforts to bring war criminals or profiteers to justice..or banksters fraudsters...

as our incomes and assets are eroded..we are becoming less powerful...this is just a fact..no one addresses the shock americans have been facing..this is an important aspect..it is paralyzing..i know..

much of this could have been averted...i just dont see legitimate movement from this administration..and dont get me wrong..so far as image is concerned, i praise obama...really...he and michelle...but when it comes to the nitty gritty...we are being disregarded...i know this, my life was set a few years ago...illness, foreclosure...almost 60, female and single...never took one cent from my government and never missed a bill payment until this mess...fiercely independent..and im just one person..i work on commission...ha....what is occurring is obscene and insulting..

people think it cant happen to them...mark my words, we are community...the base hasn't been shored..the next tier is falling..and those around them will fall after that...no legitimate and effective programs have been supported or put forward...YET..thats what i see...i have no choice but to hope..

our psyche needs to be bolstered as well as our pocketbooks..that cant happen with senseless war and record bonuses for the fraudsters this year...

hold someone accountable for something and i would feel great...

[Winterblues]

5. What exactly did Obama do?

Bush* put into place TARP and Congress passed the American Recovery Act. Yes Obama did sign it into Law but Congress did the deed. What specifically has The Obama Administration put forth?

[kentuck]

7. I think most supporters would say...

He started a process of saving this country. Granted, there is a lot of impatience with the speed it is happening. Perhaps it could be fixed in a year? Perhaps not? I do not think we should underestimate the seriousness of the situation in January of 2009.

[Winterblues]

14. IMO he made it possible for the Democrats in congress to address the problems

Republicans created them so there is nothing they can add that will remedy the problems. Obama will not Veto the Democratic Majority, so in that regard, yes he gets some credit.. He has not though put forth any program or remedy himself..He lets the Democrats do the heavy lifting..

[mkultra]

13. i think you are way behind on information intake

you really need to catch up. Tarp is NOT the only stimulus passed.

[Winterblues]

25. OK, clue me in..

Tell me something the Obama Administration submitted for action. I know of quite a few things Democrats in congress have done, but fall short when I try and think of something directly from the Administration..Please fill me in..

[mkultra]

28. well, we could start with the Obama economic stimulus as well as the cash for clunkers

The buy back of T notes, the guarantees to stimulate toxic debt buy up, and the recently talked about jobs program.

ill let the rest of those who pay attention serve as your teacher today. Or you could just do some research on this very board where people have posted several lists of his actions.

[jpak]

32. Where have you been? Obama supported TARP aand proposed the Stimulus Bill

I posted this in another thread and won't edit it...

Here's what he's DONE....

Tax reform - Obama will let the Bush Billionaire Tax Cuts expire next year - not renew them or make them permanent. Obama proposed a $500-1000 tax cut for middle income Americans (the GOP reduced that to $400-800).

Jobs - Obama's Stimulus Bill created or saved 0.6-1.6 million jobs. Obama turned the US economy from tanking at -6.4% GDP and shedding 700,000 jobs a month when he was sworn-in, to an economy now growing at +2.4% GDP and losing only 11,000 jobs a month. Unemployment is declining for a high of 10.2% - during the worst recession since the Great Depression (unemployment was far worse during Reagan's recession - 10.8%) . Obama saved us from economic collapse - period.

Obama's bailout of GM rescued tens of thousands of union jobs. GM - arguably the largest company in the world - emerged from bankruptcy in an amazingly short period of time - weeks - not months or years.

Obama supported the extension of unemployment benefits - and $100 a month bonus and COBRA subsidies - for millions of unemployed Americans.

First time home buyer tax credits stabilized a US housing market that was in free fall in January 2009.

HCR - nothing has passed in a final form so this is not a "failure". If HCR is such deal for the health insurance industry, why are they fighting it tooth and nail?

Main St vs Wall St - a false dichotomy and wrong. Obama will offer with tax credits and loans for small business and weatherization programs for homeowners on Main Street - not Wall Street.

Climate Change? R U kidding. Obama reversed 8 years of Bush climate change NON -policy and allowed EPA to declare CO2 a pollutant. Can you appreciate any of that????

Energy Independence? I'm sorry, but Congress has not yet taken up a Green Energy Bill. This is not a failure. Obama reauthorized and expanded homeowner tax credits for solar and wind installations. The stimulus package is doing LOTS for energy efficiency and alternative energy here in my home state of Maine. Maine is using stimulus money to weatherize existing homes - everyone will benefit from this. Maine colleges and universities are deploying PV arrays and wind turbines, community colleges are training solar installers and certifying weatherization technicians. Maine wind farms have received stimulus money to expand. Maine is establishing offshore wind farm sites with stimulus $$$. Maine paper mills will match millions of dollars of stimulus money to install heat recovery systems that will improve energy efficiencies at these mills by 33%. Maine has received millions in stimulus money to retrofit schools and hospitals with wood-fired heating systems - the wood produced here in Maine. Obama is spending money on high speed rail and Cash-4-Clunkers succeeded in getting gas hogs off the road and replaced them with significantly more fuel efficient vehicles.

You are wrong to bash Obama as a Do Nothing President - he has done a lot and IS SUCCEEDING.

The Obama-Failure-Meme - FAILS.

period.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

8. Some perspective is needed and appreciated

Even though President Obama hasn't been perfect on everything he has not been horrid either -at least not as bad as some people are making it out to be. I also realize that it is easier to be a candidate than it is to actually govern too, which is why I'm not ready to give up on President Obama. A single moment's thought about what things would be like under a McCain/Palin administration or pretty much any potential future Republican administrations is enough for me to continue supporting the Democratic Party-at least until there are other viable progressive/liberal alternatives.

[pampango]

10. "What have you done for us lately?" as they say in sports. Gratitude, if it exists, is short-lived

in politics as in sports.

Plus, my guess is that there are quite a few that are not happy that he "chose to save the capitalist system". Herbert Hoover let the banks fail at the beginning of the Great Depression. He thought that letting banks fail was a way to weed out the weak ones thereby strengthening the economy long term. He also thought that enduring hard economic times was good for the American people's moral fiber. And, of course, he sought to cut spending to balance the budget in light of declining revenues which worsened the decent into the Depression.

FDR believed the opposite in each instance. While the comparisons between FDR and Obama may be stretched at times, the latter did undertake policies more similar to FDR's than to Hoover's.

[kentuck]

11. And FDR is credited with saving the capitalist system in the 1930's...

Go figure.

[loudsue]

12. Absolutely, Kentuck. The despair is nowhere nearly as deep as it was under

complete republican control. But it WILL be complete republican control again. And now that 50% of the people who voted for Obama/dems have turned 100% against ever voting again, or voting Dem (one or the other) , and since the media is still monopolized by the conservatives, and since the voting machines are STILL in the hands of a couple of corporatist-happy companies, we will have complete republican rule again much sooner than anyone realizes. And it will again be a nightmare.

There will be mercenary armies in the streets like there were during Katrina. They will trash even more of the constitution, there will be an angry, punishing backlash against all things "democrat".... probably whatever health care is passed now will be trashed in the next republican take-over, but also we can kiss social security and medicare goodbye. For those of us over 60 it is extremely frightening, as I'm sure it is ALREADY for the uninsured and the poor.

We had a turnout at the voting booth of unprecedented proportions to get Obama elected.. we had to vote almost 7 to 1 to get him just over the 50% mark, due to republican election gerrymandering. If republicans have no brains at all, I'm sorry to say that Dems and indies have extremely short memories.

I hate Obama's continuation of several of the bush policies, and the escalation of the war. But it still isn't Blackwater turning their guns on desperate flood victims in NOLA.

Thanks for posting.

[GreenPartyVoter]

29. The despair under ** was that we could do nothing to change anything. The despair under Obama is

that we pinned all our hopes of change and improvement on him, and it's not happening to the degree a lot of us had desperately wanted. Yes, it's going to take time to undo the damage done since Raygun, but it doesn't seem like Obama wants to change things all that much, or else he says he wants to change things but hires the wrong people for the job or gives away the store (or allows Congress to) in the name of bipartisanship. It's hard to celebrate the very real and positive changes that are actually going on in the face of that.

[spanone]

15. the military has been entrenched in war for eight years...they don't give that up easily

money money money

[Romulox]

16. Michigan is no better off. Unrec. nt

[TwilightGardener]

20. Well, really, isn't Michigan kind of a perpetual basket case?

I mean, we did bail out GM, we're trying to help ya.

[jpak]

34. MI would be WORSE off were it not for the GM bailout, Cash-4-Clunkers and extended UI benefits

boo hoo hoo

:thumbsdown:

[Romulox]

45. I know that *I* would be better if you didn't stalk me from thread to thread.

:hi:

[A HERETIC I AM]

19. Nicely said. Gladly rec'd because this does qualify as a great thread. n/t

[laughingliberal]

22. I think President Obama championed some actions which avoided a worse catastrophe

I do think there is some improvement since President Obama took office but I don't believe there has been a lot of tangible improvement in the lives of those who were brutalized by the economic crisis. I understand those who are frustrated that people can not see how much time it takes to turn things around. After all, it takes longer to turn an aircraft carrier than a speed boat and the US economy is like a huge aircraft carrier.

However, I do think it is quite legitimate to look at policies being enacted and the support or lack of support the president lends to proposed legislative efforts and form an opinion as to whether these policies are leading us in the right direction. I was not that happy about the bank bailouts but accept it was necessary to stabilize the markets and avoid total catastrophe.

I was most unhappy, however, that the stimulus bill, which should have been the impetus for main street to begin a little recovery, was whittled away in the interest of 'bipartisanship.' Most reputable economists believed a minimum of $1 trillion in spending was needed to have a real impact. But we got $787 billion with a lot of it being diverted into tax cuts.

I have not been encouraged to see President Obama's economic team side with the banks and financial institutions when speaking out on Congress' attempts to regulate and reform that industry. It is frightening to hear Chairman Bernanke starting to beat the drum for 'entitlement reform.' And he has been renominated by President Obama.

I was alarmed to see articles that President Obama plans to turn his attention to the deficit in 2010 and was planning to make it the focus of his SOTU address when there is little recovery for workers or middle class families evident, as yet. When he speaks of wanting to avoid the 'double dip' recession I know he realizes this is what FDR encountered when he cut spending in 1937 and, yet, he wants to focus on deficit reduction.

I was shocked at the president's lack of leadership on health care reform. He failed to stand up strongly for a public option which was the cornerstone of his stump speeches on health care reform. I know Congress and the Senate are responsible for writing and passing legislation but the president does have some influence. The stories I saw coming out of the White House from the jump were President Obama's CofC pounding on the progressives to cave to the conservadems.

I was disturbed to hear President Obama discount the idea of reinstating Glass-Stegall by saying, "It is a different time." It is a different time. This kind of collapse of the financial systems did not occur in the decades Glass-Stegall was in place.

I will not apologize for questioning the direction I see the president going. It is my right and my responsibility as an American. I am not of the opinion that solving our country's problems will be easy or happen quickly but I do think I get to question whether the approach being taken is going to have the results we desire. And it does not mean I would have preferred McCain/Palin.

There have been a few posts here, recently, about intellectual honesty. I would say to those who thought it was idiocy that Bush' RW followers went along with everything he said without question that it is somewhat disingenuous to now turn around and expect those in the Democratic party to, unquestioningly, follow along with everything the current president is doing because he has a (D) after his name. I like him. I'm glad he is president. I do not always agree with the direction he is taking.

[Toasterlad]

24. How Bad For Whom?

The only improvements I know of have been the signing of ENDA, which was nice, but definitely a backed-into-the-corner thing, and the lifting of the ban on stem-cell research.

Otherwise, we're still giving free money to billionaires, still paying billions to send young (straight) people off to die for no good reason, still have the 37th ranked healthcare system on the planet, still churning out morons from our public schools, still providing no decent jobs for our unemployed, adn still letting religious nutjobs dictate public policy and deny equality.

Oh, yeah...things are MUCH better now.

:eyes:

[elmerdem]

26. good golly

Did you really think one presidential election was going to change all of these in 11 months? WOW

"Otherwise, we're still giving free money to billionaires, still paying billions to send young (straight) people off to die for no good reason, still have the 37th ranked healthcare system on the planet, still churning out morons from our public schools, still providing no decent jobs for our unemployed, adn still letting religious nutjobs dictate public policy and deny equality."

I give Obama a passing grade. I think he explained it well with the ship of state analogy. You can't turn the ship of state on a dime.

I like to believe that it is possible that some of the things that are being done will allow future improvements to be possible. A medicare buy in for those over 55 would, IMO, bring us closer to the possibility of medicare for all in the future. I think that EPA enforcing the Clean Water Act will force the coal and agricultural industries to make many improvements. Does it solve all of our problems? No obviously not, but remember a year ago the EPA wouldn't even review permit requests. They were handing out permits without asking any questions.

I think sometimes it is easier to be mad and complain than it is to recognize good change takes a long time. I don't think that already deciding to never vote for Obama again accomplishes much. I think anyone who thought Obama would be anything more than a center-left president was setting themselves up for a huge disappointment. I also think anyone who thinks he is a radical marxist socialist is fucking looney tunes.

[Toasterlad]

27. Yet Another Magic Wand Argument.

*sigh*

No, of course I didn't expect Obama to fix all those problems. What I hoped for, what was promised, and what has NOT BEEN RECEIVED, is leadership. Obama has done NOTHING of significance to even begin to correct ANY of the problems I mentioned. All he has done is surrender at EVERY turn at the slightest resistance to any progress.

Obama has thus far proven an enormous failure as a president, and it would take a miracle for him to salvage his (hopefully) one term administration with any kind of progressive legacy.

If this country is to survive, we must ditch Obama in 2012 and vote in a truly progressive candidate who is more than just rhetoric in a nice suit.

BTW: "center-left"? Is that truly how you regard Obama? Besides stem-cell research, can you name ONE issue he stands to the left of?

[spanone]

31. 'his (hopefully) one term administration'...

bye

[Toasterlad]

40. Hi

:hi:

[elmerdem]

39. are you kidding

you may want to think he isn't leading, but I beg to differ.

Health care, no we don't have single payer yet, but goodness gracious when you have 10 or more blue-dogs bought and paid for by the big medical lobbies, a msm which is anything but journalism reiterating the 'death panel', 'kill grandma' bullshit of the day, looney fucking teabag socialist marxist, racist screamers dominating town halls, what the fuck do you expect one man to do? He's for a public option, but health-care reform is more important to him than the public option.

Gay rights? He's not a leader. He has come out against DOMA, he is for repealing don't ask, don't tell. Not a fucking leader, jesus christ himself couldn't lead the fucking good for nothing congress and senate to a bathroom if they had been waiting to take a shit for a year.

Guantanamo will be closed. Did you read the part where the problems with closure arose when there were no files, misplaced files, incomplete files on all the detainees. Imagine that Bush admin. left things worse than they even appeared.

There is more open government. Try recovery.org, try the release of torture memos, etc.

You hope it is a one-term administration? Well if it is I will bet you that the next administration won't be a progressive one. 'just rhetoric in a suit'? He told you what he was going to do with Afghanistan. He laid out what he wanted in health-care reform, he is following up on the foreign policy statements he made with regards to Iran, North Korea, and Russia. I just think that nobaody was listening to what the man was actually saying when he ran for office.

[Toasterlad]

42. You Haven't Presented Examples of Leadership. You've Presented Excuses.

That's not what I'm looking for in a president. The man lacks the guts to fight for what is right. He has caved on nearly every single issue brought before him. Shitty healthcare reform is NOT better than NO healthcare reform. And please don't even try to defend Obama's record on GLBT issues. The man has lied to us and sold us out at every turn.

Jimmy Carter was a better leader than Barack Obama.

[loudsue]

43. If Obama is a one-term president, we'll have a REPUBLICAN next time.

Can you say Sarah Palin? So you "hope" Obama loses to some republican in the next election? Do you even have a clue what you're asking for? Or what the ramifications are if your "hope" becomes reality.

You, and those like you, are fuckin crazy. This isn't a game. You just don't get it, do you?

In this country, at this time in history, we have two choices: the bad, and the worse. I'll take the bad any day.

[Toasterlad]

44. You Might Try Reading the Entire Post

I said we need a PROGRESSIVE president. Do I expect that we'll get one? No. Because the Democratic party is filled to the rafters with mindless sheep who can be cowed by simply saying, "Republican! Boo!" Just like you're trying to do here.

However, regardless of what I want, I doubt Obama will get a second term; he hasn't won over a single republican ass despite all the time he's spent kissing them, and he's pissed of the liberals in what used to be his base, who will stay home in droves rather than be punched in the balls again by his "hope and change". If he thinks he can win with just the sheep voting, he's sorely mistaken.

[loudsue]

46. And you didn't read my post.

I merely said that if democrats stay home next election, and Obama does NOT get a second term, we will have republican rule. If that happens, this country is finished sooner rather than later.

[JuniperLea]

30. A year ago we thought...

... we were on the slippery slope to The Great Depression V2.0. Seems something happened to change that... or slow it down.

We were in the Titanic, going over Niagara Falls... and somehow, we didn't hit bottom... and the bow has turned to point up. We don't have much momentum, yet, but at least we didn't shatter on the rocks below!

What I'm seeing now is DUers who got married (voted for Obama) thinking they were going to change him, and didn't pay attention to what he was telling them during the courtship.

He told us it was going to take a couple of years to see the kind of change he was after. I'm seeing people in my neighborhood going to work on infrastructure projects, I'm seeing people being hired to temp jobs after being out of work for a long time (some companies seem to fear the commitment of regular employees in this financial climate, but at least there's some work for a few people), and I'm seeing a lot more work that needs to be done. There are no quick fixes to any of this. Obama said this. I heard him. I believed him. It seems as true today as it did then.

I was late to the Obama train, so perhaps I was paying closer attention than those who were swept up in the magic... see my sigline.

[WilliamPitt]

33. This is how bad it was

http://www.truthout.org/010709J

http://www.truthout.org/092409R

http://www.truthout.org/091009R

http://www.truthout.org/080309R

http://www.truthout.org/071309A

http://www.truthout.org/063009R

http://www.truthout.org/052409A

http://www.truthout.org/051509J

http://www.truthout.org/123108J

http://www.truthout.org/article/remember-they-are-liars

http://www.truthout.org/article/william-rivers-pitt-why-0

http://www.truthout.org/article/its-a-number

I remember all too well.

[firedupdem]

35. Rec'd....

Every set back I've experienced happened under the previous administration. It peeves me when unemployment is suddenly something new!

Good Post

:fistbump:

[Lone_Star_Dem]

38. It's the same strategy they used when Clinton took office

Everything was Clinton and the Democrat's fault within his first year in office. Ignore the past 12-years of Republican rule, it's all on the head of the current seated president.

[yurbud]

41. if you are freezing to death in 30 below temps and someone warms you up to 32...

would you be grateful or say you need to be warmer still or you'll die?

And that's not being ungrateful, it's just the objective truth.

[HuckleB]

47. Good post!

[HuckleB]

48. Another reason why elections matter --> Oil shale investigation is encouraging

The Department of the Interior is calling for an investigation of a Bush-era deal on oil shale leases that grossly favored industry over American taxpayers.

http://wilderness.org/content/oil-shale-investigation-encouraging


If people are paying attention, they can see the difference every day. The question is whether or not they want to do that. It appears that many want or need enemies, and they want an all-or-nothing world and an all-or-nothing party. That's just not humanly possible.