Arthur Silber on a topic that, sorry, is going to hit close to home

[lwcon]

On misogyny and tribalism among progressives.

Arthur holds a mirror up to the kind of tribal behavior that is, unfortunately, an all-too-human and all-too-common foible.

This is apropos of what we were http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7179325&mesg_id=7179325">discussing here.

It -- tribalism, groupthink, misogyny, bullying, etc. -- can happen here, among Democrats. We're better than if we act better than that, not because we're born better than that.

If we're to earn our sense of superiority over Republicans, we need to show a capacity for self-criticism -- the lack of which was one of the defining characteristics of the Bush years.

Please read with an open mind, and K&R if you want more DUers to read it.

[JDPriestly]

1. K&R -- Absolutely on.

We should be challenging our ideas, not swallowing them whole. We should not become captives of our own ideas -- or leaders. We should always be ready to change. That is the one constant in life -- change. Love it or . . . .

Silber's article is wonderful!

[lwcon]

21. Thx

Always good to hear a vote for nuance and rationality.

I reject, based on observation, that the parties are equal opposites. But we're all equally vulnerable to tribal thinking.

Just like we're all vulnerable to the corruption that comes with getting power.

If we're all "go, team" and talking points, we're only as good as our leaders, and we can do little more than blindly trust them.

[enlightenment]

2. Excellent article.

I particularly like the section on "Othering" - a concept that I've always found fascinating. Thank you for posting the link.

[Occam Bandage]

3. Poor Sarah Palin. Such a victim. And her attackers so distract from our noble Obama-bashing.

:nopity:

[Lydia Leftcoast]

7. Throwing tomatos is tactically stupid

It only makes Palin into a martyr for her fanboys.

[Occam Bandage]

9. Of course. I said as much at the time.

Didn't think I'd run into her fanboys here, though.

[lwcon]

20. Fanboys?

To whom are you referring?

[lwcon]

10. Gawd I'm old

I remember when "victim" wasn't the progressive's favorite insult.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

4. For too many people on DU, politics is a team sport, not a way of implementing principles

If their team does X, it's bad, it's evil.

If our team does the same X, they have good reasons and we just don't understand and are hypercritical and expecting too much.

[Occam Bandage]

8. Oh, I completely agree.

Politics is all about implementing as much as is possible. I find it unfortunate that some prefer to pretend it's a football game between Our Side of the party and Their Side of the party.

[anonymous171]

5. WE ARE NOT SUPERIOR. We are just the same.

We are a political party that is attempting to use the coercive force of the government in order to enact change. Nothing more. This moral superiority bullshit is the reason Democrats are so fucking useless. We should be out there spreading rumors and fermenting hatred of the GOP. They are the enemy and should be crushed by any means necessary.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

6. One thread on poor Sarah isn't enough?

I am glad the man who threw tomatoes at her was arrested. She has my sympathy, as anyone would, for being physically assaulted. But she earns the verbal attacks through her vitriol.

[ljm2002]

11. Oh for crying out loud...

..."the ultimate motive and goal of this perspective <...> is to Kill that Woman! <...> Cheering for tomato-throwing, cheering for a rape in progress ... it all comes from the identical mindset."

You have got to be kidding me! Throwing tomatoes at Sarah Palin is equivalent to the mindset of "Kill that woman!" and cheering on rape ????? So when the Iraqi man threw shoes at George Bush and we all cheered him on, were we engaging in tribalism and misanthropy? Was that also the equivalent of cheering for a rape in progress? I don't think so.

There is a longstanding historical custom of throwing rotten fruit at poor performers and politicians, and it has nothing to do with killing, rape or gender.

Sarah Palin is a political figure who is both ridiculous and dangerous. She is also a female, which she has used to great advantage in advancing her so-called "political career". Just because someone reacts to her negatively, it does not equate to misogyny. Just because some progressives react with delight when tomatoes are thrown at Ms. Palin, it does not equate to tribalism or murderous impulses.

For the record, I don't care one way or the other about the tomatoes. She needs more than tomatoes thrown at her, she needs to be destroyed politically before she has a chance to do some real damage.

[anonymous171]

12. This is just like that NOW article where they claimed Hillary was being "gang raped" by the media

[SemiCharmedQuark]

13. Yeah, that line was bullshit.

[EOTE]

14. +1000, thank you.

I was about to say the same thing myself, but I was afraid I'd be slammed by the usual subjects for perpetuating the misogyny or some other such BS. I found a great deal more of that article to criticize. Like lending credence to what we're doing now against "powerless conservatives" to be the same as what they did to us for 6 to 8 years. Funny how these "powerless conservatives" still seem to be getting their way a good portion of the time even though we hold the presidency and large majorities in the senate and house. No matter how hard some people would like to paint this picture, "us" and "them" aren't different sides of the same coin.

[ljm2002]

15. Yes, that "powerless conservatives" line jumped out at me too...

...and reinforced that this writer is a peddler of BS.

[orwell]

16. The political conversation has devolved...

...into an elaborate pissing contest. Guess who is getting pissed on.

I don't see how you solve problems when one half of the electorate is routinely positioned against the other half. You have essentially guaranteed that half of the population is going to hate whatever you try to do.

It's also easy to say that it is "the other side's fault." This doesn't solve anything either and continues to polarize. And the wheel goes round and round.

The same Hegelian circus plays out in the people vs. the corporations, the christians vs. the muslims, the believers vs. the non-believers, the rich vs. the poor, liberals vs. conservatives, false schisms ad nauseum. Media loves such false dichotomies. The shows almost book themselves. Conventional wisdom is reinforced.

All of it solves nothing. I used to think that such powerful antagonisms may be the natural byproducts of change. I am now closer to believing that they are the fundamental roadblocks to it.

We have met the enemy and he is us...

[anonymous171]

17. The enemy is the right. Don't overthink this.

[orwell]

19. Unfortunately I don't agree...

...I may have in the past, but I have changed over time.

Almost without fail, those qualities that anger me the most in others are the things that anger me about myself.

I am intolerant of intolerance.

I hate people that hate.

I am judgmental of judgmentalism.

Adversarial relationships don't solve problems for me. They almost always lead to greater problems.

I try not to feel morally superior because I dislike that trait in others when it is applied to me.

Perceiving someone as an enemy doesn't help me solve a problem.

[noiretextatique]

18. this is just silly

if you want to talk about demonizing, take a look at the kind of demonizing palin did to obama. i am sure there are people who demonize palin, but i don't think it's fair to claim that legitimate criticism of her can be reduced to "kill that woman." what an absurd statement. i despise palin because she's a pea-brained, attention-seeking twit, with little offer except empty slogans.