Another Tiger Woods' thread....but I promise, not gossipy stuff , I just want to ask you a question.

[Jackeens]

Okay, I come from a country where the downfall of 'celebrities' is usually celebrated - but we're famous for our begrudgery, so that partly explains it.

Britain is much the same, there's really nothing its media loves more than one of its celebrities tumbling back down to earth after some 'disgrace' or other.

But just to prove my complete ignorance about the U.S. I have been really surprised by the sheer delight taken in some quarters (90% of the articles I've read, and maybe 90% of DU posts!) in Tiger's 'downfall'.

I don't get it!

(Two points here:

1 I'm not talking about people's reaction to news of his, well, extra-marital activities; I'm just talking about why so much pleasure was taken in this news.

2 I realise a large chunk of DU has no interest in the Woods' story, so I'm only addressing questions to those who are.)

He's a corporate whore? Well, isn't just about every successful sportsman and woman these days? So, why is Tiger particularly singled out on that front? True, he's probably earned more than any of the others from his sponsorship deals, but they're all playing the very same game.

He's obnoxious and arrogant? As above! Why, for example, is Phil Mickelson so widely revered by golf fans (including many DUers) when he's just as much a 'corporate whore' and appears to be regarded as infinitely more obnoxious and arrogant by those who actually play alongside him. They call him FIGJAM - 'Fuck I'm Good, Just Ask Me'. (http://golf.about.com/b/2006/01/26/phil-mickelson-a-hated-man.htm and http://www.gq.com/sports/profiles/200601/most-hates-athletes). The guy appears to be loathed, he's accused of being fake and insincere (and worse), but most American golf fans adore the fella while viewing Tiger with contempt. Why?

He's never taken a political stand? Okay, I wish he had - but he's chosen to stay out of the fray, just concentrated on winning golf tournaments and earning money. Does that really make him so different to most professional sports people? Jesus, even saying 'nothing' makes him stand out in the largely bible-bashing, right-wing world of professional golf - remember that old charmer Tom Lehman describing Bill Clinton as a "draft-dodging baby-killer"? Funny, I don't ever recall Tom asking where his beloved George W was during war time.

He hasn't used his status to good effect? Well, sorry - but while he might not have become a campaigner he broke every friggin' barrier in the suffocating world of professional golf (pissing off the likes of Fuzzy Zoeller along the way - and anyone who pisses off Zoeller and his ilk will do for me). Augusta National, home of the Masters, didn't accept a black member until 1990, so can you imagine how those ole boys felt when they had to slip the green jacket over Tiger's shoulders in 1997, 2001, 2002 and 2005? Too damn right the guy's an icon!

Someone wrote today in a Tiger thread that he's always given them the "creeps". Why?!?!

Is he lovable? Hell no.

Can he be bad-tempered and obnoxious? Of course.

Is he the only sometimes bad-tempered and obnoxious sports 'star' who has cheated on his wife? What do you think?

So, why the rejoicing?

Okay, I'll spit it out: has the 'Uppity Negro' been brought right back down to earth?

Is that what this is all about?

[NYC_SKP]

1. That might be it, I dunno. Martha Stewart, criminal, came back stronger than before.

I don't understand these parts of our culture.

So, maybe, his race has something to do with it.

I just don't know.

[Jackeens]

5. Thanks NYC_SKP, I just don't know either - I just find the whole 'frenzy' puzzling.

:toast:

[bridgit]

2. Naw, but here's an upside: maybe he'll be thought thrifty for buying wholesale

:thumbsup:

[tabatha]

3. There are a lot of obviously arrogant jerks on the golf circuit:

when I was interested a long time ago.
And there were some on the tennis circuit as well.
All of them were white, and all not really of interest to me.
I think Pete Sampras was one of the few sportsmen I admired.
I was glad to see Vijay Singh being successful at golf, and then he made some really jerky statements.

I don't know if it has anything to do with Tiger's color.
If a white person had done the same, my reaction would have been no different.
Who else in the golf and tennis worlds has had so many risky affairs?

[Captain Hilts]

40. After some of Singh's comments I stopped watching too. nt

[Dreamer Tatum]

4. Tiger Woods is paying for the degree to which is father was an asshole

Tiger's father was famous for saying that his son "transcended golf," and went on and on about how he would basically bring balance to the Force. It also figures that Tiger is, himself, a complete and utter asshole, as is his caddy, who threatens violence against people in galleries who somehow fail to genuflect. I know this because I was holding my sleek little Canon at the Phoenix Open a few years back, at the teebox on the hole where Tiger once hit an ace, and Steve Williams told me that if I held my camera up at all while Tiger was on the box, he'd "shove it up my ass." I took a step forward and told him to step to me any old time he likes.

Tiger Woods, who incidentally will now NEVER break Nicklaus' record for majors, is getting taken down not because he is a "negro," but because he is an ASSHOLE.

If we are truly post-racial, we must admit the possibility that a "negro" can be an asshole.

[Captain Hilts]

11. Yes!!! His father was a total ass. And Lee Elder, Chi Chi Rodriguez and Jim Dent

"broke" golf's color barrier. Elder and Rodriguez were VERY popular on the tour.

[Dreamer Tatum]

19. Charlie Sifford broke the color barrier in golf

He was a hero. Tiger Woods is an asshole who has once-in-two-generations golf skills.

[Captain Hilts]

29. Yes! I stand corrected. nt

[Jackeens]

59. Charlie Sifford was a magnificent pioneer, but honestly, do you deny Woods was too in his own time?

[Dreamer Tatum]

63. Yes, I do deny that with all my energy

Tiger Woods belongs in the top three golfers of all time, ever, with no reservations whatsoever. But I struggle to see how he pioneered anything in golf.

[Jackeens]

105. Okay, we'll just agree to differ - passionately! n/t

[AngryAmish]

86. Jim Dent is a gem of a man

Really nice guy.

[Jackeens]

20. I couldn't agree more, Dreamer Tatum

"If we are truly post-racial, we must admit the possibility that a "negro" can be an asshole."

Absolutely!

All I'm wondering about is why he is being held to 'higher' standards than so many other sports 'stars'.

John Daly, apparently, is one of the most popular golfers on the circuit - he makes Tiger look like Mr Family Values. Why is that?

I was at a couple of days of the Ryder Cup in Ireland a couple of years ago, most of the U.S. team (and a few of the European) were truly obnoxious in their dealings with the public, who queued for hours in torrential rain before getting in to the course.

It just strikes me that this level of arrogance is common to most - not all - professional sports men. That's why I'm so curious about why Tiger is singled out.

Thanks.

[goclark]

95. Yes African Americans can be AH's like anyone else

And I am proud to be African American. : )

All I can add is that in the African American community that I am aware of, and I know a lot of guy friends that are golfers - not professional, I have NEVER heard one person say that they were anything other than a " Huge Fan of Tiger's."

In fact, most of us are glued to the television to watch him anytime we are aware that he is on.

Now OJ is another issue. I went to SC with OJ and he was LOVED and adored by everyone there ~ when he walked across campus he was so friendly and would stop and talk to everyone. And, it goes without saying that he was magical on the football field.

After his "problems" there were some that still supported him but now not many people that I know think he is anything but crazy. He is all out of Chances unless some miracle happens. : (

When my SC buddies get together we still talk about the days of football that we experienced yelling and hugging each other after each magical run that he made.

We were so proud that this African American and nice guy brought glory to our school and to our Race.

Tiger Woods is participating in a sport that many African Americans don't have the luxury to afford. He is mixed but still considered Black by most. I'm sure in his generation "Mixed" would leave you a bit mixed up because if you didn't self identify and pal around with Blacks, you entered a circle of friends that was composed mostly of White friends. Stanford certainly would not expose him to many African Americans at that time.

I am sorry for the situation and wish only the best of Tiger and his family.

Thanks for your Post Jakeens!

[onenote]

50. why are you so certain Tiger will never break Nicklaus' record for major tournament wins?

Did he suddenly become a less talented golfer? Did lots of other golfers suddenly get a lot better than him?

I think Tiger's behavior is nothing to be proud of and much to be ashamed of. But if I was given the choice of who I would want to make a golf shot if, in some imaginary world, my life depended on that shot, would I (or anyone else) choose someone other than Tiger to make that shot? Doubtful.

[Dreamer Tatum]

64. I think Tiger is done vis a vis challenging the record.

Sorry...I just think this breaks his back. I'm sure he'll win more majors, but not enough.

[onenote]

82. he only needs to win four to tie Nicklaus

He's 34 years old and has 14 major wins. Nicklaus didn't get his fourteenth until he was 35 and didn't get number 17 until he was 40. Is it given that Tiger will do it? No. Would I bet against him. No? From all observable evidence, he has an uncanny ability to focus on golf. If anything, what has happened may make him an even more determined golfer.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

117. The intimidation factor is gone. Yang, Glover, Watson, Cabrera and Cink

He may still do it but it's going to be difficult. Especially if he keeps juggling 12 women. He needs some lessons from Garcia and Daly if he's going to keep that crap up.

[RoadRage]

99. I actually disagree..

I think this makes him an even stronger golfer. Frankly, it's all he has left. His family is about to be gone.. his sponsers (at least the big ones) are going to slowly back away... and Tiger is one of the most fierce competitors on earth. The only way (in his mind) that he can prove his worth now, is to win every single golf tournament around - if for no other reason then to get people to stop talking about his personal life, and again focus on how good of a golfer he is.

I think this makes the guy a better golfer. But, he is admittedly a horrible husband. I hope for his kids sake, he is at least a good father.

[Solomon]

109. Wow. Trash his whole family why don' cha. Tiger must have really

hurt you pretty bad with his success. You got some real issues and it speaks to what Jackeens is trying to get at. WOW!

You should step back and take a look at how this makes YOU look. Phew!

And the whole "negro" thing. Kills me the way people on the one hand will say, why do people say Tiger or Obama, or... is black? "He's half -asian or half white" whatever the case may be. But when somebody like them fucks up, oh yeah, they're definitely negroes.

[Dreamer Tatum]

110. Fuck all that

Woods' dad WAS an incredible asshole. I'm sorry if skin tone intimidates you from that fact.

[Shell Beau]

125. Why do you say he won't break the Nicklaus record?

Tiger is still young, and in the golf world, age isn't quite the factor it is in other sports. He still can beat that record. And if he brings his "game" to any of the majors, he will win them. He is so famous for coming back and whipping ass in the last rounds. Don't count him out just yet. I am hoping his personal life doesn't affect his golf because I separate the two if I can. I couldn't for Michael Vicks, but I wasn't a fan to begin with, and that was a much different deal. BUT Tiger is just THAT good at golf, even if he sucks as a husband.

[Ruby the Liberal]

6. I think there is a backlash in general against those who are not sharing in the struggles right now

It isn't racism, IMO - not even close. More like schadenfreude against those who seem to be immune from the challenges the rest of us are facing. Perhaps a human desire to see a level playing field that makes people celebrate this kind of adverse publicity?

I am no shrink - just my random thoughts on it all.

[NRaleighLiberal]

Part human nature (see below), part the current delight in voyeurism, I think.

The human nature part - many people seem to delight in seeing "famous" or "rich" people getting theirs - getting knocked off of their high horse. Is it jealousy, or just boredom? Or an inherent nastiness?

I also am amazed at the growth of so called reality shows - that is the voyeur part. My feeling is that there a whole lot of bored or unfulfilled people needing to live their lives through others.

Just my two cents (or two theories!)

And I could care less about Tiger and his issues - hell, we all have issues!

[TheFarseer]

7. my take

He has always been held up by the media as such a goodie two shoes that people can't help but pile on when it's revealed he cheated on his wife with like, 6 women.

[Jackeens]

35. (I think it's up to 10 now)

:blush:

[Captain Hilts]

8. He didn't piss off Zoeller. Zoeller was very welcoming to Woods when he hit the tour. Lee Elder

would argue about Woods breaking the color barrier. So would Chi Chi Rodriquez. And Jim Dent. Rodriquez and Elder were VERY popular on the tour.

[Jackeens]

22. Aw, Captain Hilts!

Zoeller: "He's doing quite well, pretty impressive. That little boy is driving well and he's putting well. He's doing everything it takes to win. So, you know what you guys do when he gets in here? You pat him on the back and say congratulations and enjoy it and tell him not to serve fried chicken next year.....or collard greens or whatever the hell they serve. Got it?"

:shrug:

[Captain Hilts]

36. Zoeller made the same joke about himself as eating redneck food. Not my kind of humor

but by all accounts Zoeller was very welcoming of Woods on the tour.

And I hate the tour and also feel uncomfortable with anyone referring to a black adult as a 'boy'.

[chimpymustgo]

83. Are you being WILLFULLY IGNORANT about Zoeller's racist tirade against Tiger? There's NO OTHER way

to read it.

Bullshit.

[leftstreet]

9. It's not about race, it's about class n/t

[Captain Hilts]

14. BINGO. nt

[goldcanyonaz]

18. +1

[emilyg]

79. +10

[napi21]

10. Jealousy of his money maybe? I don't really know. Maybe

because he was the first black golfer to be so good at the sport & be so financially successful Some people may feel betrayed because they admired him so much.

Well, FWIW, I still admire his golfing abilities and his apparent calm demeanor. Did he do the right thing? Of course not, but trust me, he's in the majority AFAIK. I'm retired now, but I can tell you that in well over 40+ years of working in offices at several different companies, I can count the number of men who didn't cheat on one hand and have fingers left! After the introduction of the BC pill, cheating became prominent with both sexes.

I don't feel any delight in Tiger's downfall at all. In fact, I seriously doubt his wife really believed he had been and/or will always be faithful. Actually, the whole thing ticks me off that the media is making such a big deal about this. I'd love to go back to the days of JFK when everybody really knew he was cavorting but nobody said anything publicly. Yea I know...you can never go back!

[dionysus]

89. his calm demeanor goes out the window whenever he hits a bad shot, and screams a string of f-bombs.

they usually can block them out on television...

[Captain Hilts]

12. Folks also LOVE reading about miserable celebrities. Hence all the Diana crap. nt

[Zomby Woof]

13. I knew before clicking the thread

You'd make this about race.

I don't use this emoticon often, but you deserve the very worst: :eyes:

[Captain Hilts]

17. Yeah. I didn't read it until the end of the post until now. nt

[Jackeens]

30. Well, if you defend Fuzzy Zoeller I'm not too surprised.....

...you won't even consider there just might be a racial element to the coverage of this story.

Never mind.

[Captain Hilts]

32. Trust me. I hate the golf tour and Zoeller. So, try again. nt

[Jackeens]

39. ??????

"He didn't piss off Zoeller. Zoeller was very welcoming to Woods when he hit the tour."


"He's doing quite well, pretty impressive. That little boy is driving well and he's putting well. He's doing everything it takes to win. So, you know what you guys do when he gets in here? You pat him on the back and say congratulations and enjoy it and tell him not to serve fried chicken next year. Got it." Zoeller then smiled, snapped his fingers, and walked away before turning and adding, "or collard greens or whatever the hell they serve."

[Captain Hilts]

41. I don't like the language or think it's funny. nt

[goldcanyonaz]

23. A friend of mine was accused of being a racist by refering to Tiger as a Cheetah.

They thought it was a reference to the monkey in Tarzan movies?

I was like HUH?

It's a play on his name, meaning cheater.

[Jackeens]

26. So you won't even entertain the thought that is an element in the story? Why?

[snagglepuss]

34. +1

[tularetom]

15. ALL professional tour golfers are corporate whores

And some are far more shameless than Tiger Woods. As a group, their political preferences are particularly repulsive ant IMO they are not anybody I'd want my kids to emulate. Tiger is no better or no worse than any of the rest of them. I think the press should respect his privacy too, but let's face it, famous "family oriented" athlete gets caught with a chick, you gotta know the jokes will start.

I'm taking no joy in his misfortunes. I doubt you'll hear much from the golf community either. One, he's their meal ticket and two, I suspect a lot of the other "family values" PGA pros are trying to keep the same kind of skeletons from getting out of their closets.

Frankly, if the stories I've heard are true, I'm amazed that Tiger had the energy to play golf at all, let alone at such a high level.

[dionysus]

90. and then there's rocco mediate, who wears a peace sign belt buckle. not all of them are dicks.

davis love III, tom watson (personal friends with pillbaugh), both big bush fans, definate assholes

[kctim]

96. Watson

is one of the nicest guys you could meet.

[dionysus]

97. i know its politics, buit i lost respect for him because he's close personal friends with rush

that's one of the few lines you can't cross in my book...

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

114. Greg Norman.

[Kingofalldems]

122. Ryan Moore wears logo free clothing from head to toe.

[goldcanyonaz]

16. It has nothing to do with the color of his skin, it has to do with having 10 (maybe more) g/f's

while married.

Him cheating or his wife cheating wouldn't be a big deal in my opinion, it's the fact that he not only cheated, but maintained long term relationships with these women.

Also, there are supposedly hotel records of him being with one of his girlfriends 2 days before his wife gave birth to their last child.

Also, the fact that these women have his voice on their recorders, records of him texting, sexting, etc.

I really thought that they were happily married.

[Democrats_win]

21. It's called schadenfreude: having delight in the misfortune of others.

It's also related to the fact Tiger Woods is a minority. You see, in America, people do take delight when minorities have problems.

The gay activist, Larry Kramer, once talked about this in relation to gays and AIDS. In his speech, "The Tragedy of Today's Gays," he basically scolded gays for not using more sense. Instead of protecting themselves from HIV, they weren't being careful. He said that people who hate gays would be delighted to see them get AIDS and suffer. To Kramer, allowing such a situation to exist is stupid. Not only were gays putting themselves at terrible risk, but they were giving assistance to their enemies. The world would not focus on homophobia but instead the bad choices (not being cautious in the age of AIDS) that gays make.

It's the same with Tiger. People hate him because he's a minority having success in the good 'Ole boys game of golf. Now these "transgressions" are coming to light. The same hate that gays experienced is happening to Tiger. Just as with gays, he should have used a little more sense. He has given his enemies the break they were looking for. The focus isn't on the racists, but on Tiger's bad choices.

Hopefully, Tiger will do ok. We all know that this will have some effect on how he's viewed in the future. The racists are delighted. Big mistake, Tiger.

[Dreamer Tatum]

24. Horseshit

If Tiger had ONE mistress, I would entertain the thought that this is in some way racial. Instead, the guy has at least 10 chicks on the side.

This is about an asshole, not about race.

[NYC_SKP]

28. Except that the phenomenon emerged before the revelation of multiple affairs.

It was a hot topic before we knew much about why the Escalade crash occured.

[dionysus]

or, he's just a serial cheating asshole

[noamnety]

25. I think it's the hypocrisy and misogyny

I got a magazine this month (before this broke) with an interview with tiger in it. The last paragraph in it was him claiming the most important thing in his life was being a successful role model for others on how to be a good father and husband.

[Captain Hilts]

37. Woods caught shit for being okay with Augusta not permitting women to belong. So, this continues

that theme for a lot of folks.

[tonysam]

27. The "racist" card is a bunch of crap. It's the fact he is a billionaire athlete who has been

in the public eye for years, so any kind of scandal which touches him is news.

[Jackeens]

33. Fair enough tonysam, I saw from your posts you're most definitely not a Tiger fan!

And that, needless to say, is your prerogative!

[mopinko]

31. i think it's the jokes. it is so easy.

i mean, there are a million golf jokes out there already. you can just make a tiger one with an old punchline without even thinking very hard.
i know this is a big part of the lounge threads.

[Mind_your_head]

38. Anyone who is any 'good'.....MUST BE ATTACKED!!!!

Find the flaw/weakness and Attack...Attack.....ATTACK!!!! Show no mercy! YAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRCCCCCCCCGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHH!

There must be no 'good' in ANYONE. We are ALL 'flawed', ya think? :think: :freak:

[burning rain]

42. What the hell are you on about?

He's the OPPOSITE of uppity--he doesn't even want to identify as a black man, going on with his "cablinasian" line. Tiger Woods has zero social consciousness or concern: he is about Tiger Woods and only Tiger Woods.

[Jackeens]

46. He's 1/4 Chinese, 1/4 Thai, 1/4 African American and 1/8 Native American, but he'll always be....

an 'uppity negro' to some.

[Name removed]

53. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bucky]

80. Ah yes, "oreo". I believe that's racist talk for "successful black man who doesn't act flamboyant"

I'll bet he *gasp* reads and drinks martinis, too! What a sell out!

PS, I'm making fun of you.

[inna]

43. "has the 'Uppity Negro' been brought right back down to earth?"

jesus christ, Jackeens.


it doesn't get much lamer than this.


:thumbsdown:


Signed, your former fan.

[Jackeens]

44. Sorry to lose you Inna!

But, yeah, I genuinely believe that's, ultimately, what the reaction has been all about. But don't give up on me just because we disagree on this, I'm sure we'll unite again on other issues. :-)

:toast:

[Bucky]

81. I remain your fan.

But I disagree with your assessment, too. If a white celebrity with a similarly Dudley Do-Right image had a similar car-smashing, tart-boffing, cellphone-message-self-exposing fall from grace, I think you'd get the same chorus of tongue clucking busy bodies dissecting this tawdry nonstory. The only difference is that no one would be talking about the white guy's preference for dating white women. But of course the only people I've seen talking about that aren't exactly the "uppity Negro lynch mob" crowd.

Your mileage may differ, but to my experience, every time the topic of race comes up, Americans of all varieties spazz out and go sputtering around saying stupid shit, like some kind of psychic allergic reaction. It's one of the things that truly unites us as a people, along with credit card debt and blue jeans. We simply can't intelligently approach the subject. The longer you live in this country (I'm presuming that you live here now), the more you will become like us in this regard. Hell, I'll bet you've bought blue jeans with a credit card just in the last month.

[Jackeens]

106. Well, that was a bit magnificent Bucky!

Your thoughts opened my mind way beyond the millimetre it was opened until reading your post :-)

I don't live in the U.S., which probably explains my OP :blush:

Thank you.

[Nikki Stone1]

45. I don't take joy in it, but I actually do have a problem with it:

America was asked to buy into Tiger Woods, not just as a great athlete, but as the great breaker of racial barriers, in golf and in American society. Yes, this was a crassly commercial act on the part of Nike ("I am Tiger Woods") and other sponsors, but many Americans needed a symbol like Tiger, in the same way they needed a symbol like Barack Obama. For African Americans, Tiger and Barack are symbols of breaking through the white power structure and achieving the ultimate status; for whites, they are symbols of the evolution and the healing & redemption of a nation. Tiger was MORE than an athlete, in the same way that Barack is (to many) more than just a president.

When you carry that symbolic status and CRASSLY let your sponsors use it to sell sneakers and the like, you should at least have the decency to protect that status: not for you or your greedy, jaded sponsors, but for the people affected by that symbolism: the nation that needs what you represent, black and white, and the kids most of all. If you are going to cheat, do it discreetly and in moderation. Don't jump every hot girl you see like there's no tomorrow and leave yourself open to being seen as someone with uncontrollable sexually urges who doesn't think twice about the consequences to his wife and children...and his nation.

[Jackeens]

47. Thank you Nikki, I couldn't disgaree with any of that, really interesting.

Thanks again.

[Captain Hilts]

48. Very interesting comments. Thanks for sharing them. nt

[inna]

49. great post, as always, Nikki.

Right_On.

[snagglepuss]

73. Well said.

:applause:

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

115. Never mind Charlie Sifford, Lee Elder, Chi Chi Rodriguez, Lee Trevino, etc.

Of those 4, Sifford is the only autograph I never got. Perhaps that's what some find unappealling about Tiger, he was treated like he broke barriers and the ones who really broke them were cast aside.

[onenote]

51. A lot of anti-Tiger sentiment over the years is simply a reflection of his being the anti-underdog

There is a natural tendency among a lot of people (myself included) to root for the underdog. That tendency would, almost by definition, cause one not to be a fan of tiger.

[ecstatic]

52. I couldn't articulate why I suspected a racist element to all the Tiger coverage,

but you NAILED it. I've never been a Tiger fan. And I can't stand cheaters. But something about the way the media, DU, and others are talking about Tiger just rubbed me the wrong way.

[kayla9170]

55. The Problem I Have with Tiger is....

His Father was African-American and his Mother is Thai. The end of that means that Tiger was half African-American and Asian. Similar to our President Obama. Instead of Tiger doing ANYTHING to promote either his African-American and/or Asian decent, he did everything possible to portray himself as Caucasian in EVERY WAY. He only dated (or in this case cheated repeatedly) with Caucasian women, he married a Swedish Caucasian woman, he did nothing that I of know to assist the African-American and/or Asian communities in anyway financially or otherwise.

Now, since the blinders are off on Tiger's life, he is being treated like the minority he is. If Tiger was actually Caucasian, like he THOUGHT he was....the serial cheater story would barely be a beep on the MSM radar. Frankly, it would not be a story that anyone the the Non-Minority based Media would be interested in. Only because half African-American/half Asian Tiger was the ONE of the first minorities to break into the Lilly-Caucasian World of Golf and made lots of money doing it....this is a main everyday story.

See what Tiger forgot is that it does not matter how many Caucasian women you date, have sex with or marry, how much you make every attempt possible to run "Far-Far Away" from your minority status, how much money you make, how much you try and fit into the "image" of what a Non-Minority, Minority....should be like....in the end, when the crap hits the fan.....you will be treated by those people that you attempted to be like...like the African-American/Asian person you really are.

Only thing now....Tiger cannot come back looking for support for the African-American community as we are laughing inside at him. The Asian community does not want the shame that Tiger's serial cheating will bring upon their community, so they will shun him too. The Caucasian based corporate board masters and golf sponsors will began to wonder if Tiger is marketable enough to continue filling their coffers and with the continuing sexual based issues of Mr. Woods leaking out....will put Tiger into a corner for a new "Front Man"....minus the "Drip-Drip" of exposed sexual information issues.

Tiger did this crap to himself and the pain he will feel and continue to feel is SO deserved. I just hope that his wife and children can find a way to out live this......and Elin...take him to the bank as he so richly deserve it.

[tabatha]

69. I don't agree with that

"the serial cheater story would barely be a beep on the MSM radar".
Look at all the press about the white cheaters: Sanford, Clinton, Vitter, etc.

[HipChick]

54. 'Uppity Negro' + white women

If the women he had been cheating with were black, it wouldn't be that much of a story...I still think there is a stigma stuck in the collective consciousness of the US about a black man dating white women..

[FrenchieCat]

70. There certainly is.

It's a combination of things, but cheating on your wife when you are a sports icon has never been the reason you rise or fall. So yes, there is a racial component in there, and those who don't think so, would rather not see it....even if it's there.

[Jackeens]

56. Okay, after reading the replies, I'm wondering....

...if I'm just applying my own sensitivities to the coverage of and reaction to this story?

I'm speaking as someone from a country that was close to 100% 'white' until a few years ago, and has dealt fairly abysmally with immigration (a lot of it from northern Africa) in recent times - because of that I'm hyper sensitive to racism issues, and maybe I'm seeing racism here when it might not exist? I honestly just don't know. My hunch is still that there is an element in the reaction that is getting a kick out of the 'uppity negro' falling to earth, but I've most probably overstated it. ('Overstating' is my area of expertise).

I genuinely didn't mean to offend any DUers, really sorry if I did.

[HipChick]

58. I was raised in the UK, so have a different perspective..

Tabloids go all out to 'strip' a person down there, but the frenzy I am seeing here seems to something else..

[tabatha]

72. I understand that sensitivity.

Believe it or not, I have always taken the side of the underdog, because I dislike judgment on appearances - there is a very long story in that. It was part of the country I grew up in, and have seen it here as well.

I don't think anyone was offended - it was a valid point to bring up. And with certain people, it may very well be a factor.

On the other hand, some people make a big deal of it because they don't want to believe it and are trying to come to terms with it.

And as disappointing as Tiger's behaviour was, the SNL skit was more disappointing - it was tacky.

[Captain Hilts]

57. Race becomes a factor when it's noted they're all white

As Eugene Robinson notes:

No offense to anyone who actually looks like Barbie, but it really is striking how much the women who've been linked to Woods resemble one another. I'm talking about the long hair, the specific body type, even the facial features. Mattel could sue for trademark infringement.

This may be the most interesting aspect of the whole Tiger Woods story -- and one of the most disappointing. He seems to have been bent on proving to himself that he could have any woman he wanted. But from the evidence, his aim wasn't variety but some kind of validation.

I'm making a big assumption here that the attraction for Woods was mostly physical, but there's no evidence thus far that he had a lot of time for deep conversation. If adultery is really about the power and satisfaction of conquest, Woods's self-esteem was apparently only boosted by bedding the kind of woman he thought other men lusted after -- the "Playmate of the Month" type that Hugh Hefner turned into the American gold standard.

But the world is full of beautiful women of all colors, shapes and sizes -- some with short hair or almond eyes, some with broad noses, some with yellow or brown skin. Woods appears to have bought into an "official" standard of beauty that is so conventional as to be almost oppressive.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/07/AR2009120702944.html?hpid=opinionsbox1

[Jackeens]

62. "Woods appears to have bought into an "official" standard of beauty....

.....beauty that is so conventional as to be almost oppressive."

It's funny, I have an Indian-born friend in NY who emailed me to today to make that very point. She asked me if even making that point was 'racist' - I didn't think it was, but damn, who am I to judge?

Racist or not, I'll be honest....it kind of made me weep to note that every single woman he was 'linked' with was an identikit 'Barbie', as Eugene Robinson said.

Much as I admire you Tiger, show some more adventure: there's a big beautiful world out there!

[Captain Hilts]

67. It made me sad, too. nt

[ecstatic]

65. His father didn't do a good job of teaching him unconditional love

for himself and his entire heritage. So he wasn't equipped to face racism at school and developed an unfortunate personality complex.

[CoffinEd]

71. Eugene is merely stating the obvious

Heck, I know a lot of folks who knew Eldrick Woods was seeking some sort of validation when he created an entirely new racial category just for himself: Cablinasian. Heck, I suppose he took the route he did because Cablinasian women are hard to come by. Just a hunch.

[gleaner]

60. I really don't think so ...

I was writing on this in another thread and Alex Rodriguez was mentioned. I remember the glee with which his affairs with celebrity women were pursued, but see he kind of shared the glee himself. It was like, sorry that I'm married, but look at how many celebrities I can schtupp?

David Letterman also came to mind. All the jokes all the frolicking at his expense. Him going on TV and eating humble pie. All of the women coming forward to talk about their affairs with him and him seeing to it that the one he still had the power to terminate was fired.

Then there was Governor Sanford that Republican stalwart who had his affairs on the taxpayer's dime and enjoyed all of the mockery an approbation that he could not swallow. He took it all in, lied and went back for more. Do I hear the words Bill Clinton? Remember how people mocked his every reported action with Lewinsky and how he had to face the icy glares of Hillary with only their daughter to stand between them and keep them safe from each other. He even managed to get a book deal out of it. Then there was the Governator here in California and his busy hands which everyone took glee in reporting and discussing. It goes on and on.

What I think it is that you're seeing is the "oh how the mighty have fallen" syndrome where people don't feel so bad about themselves if the rich and or famous mess up and get caught too. Woods has to endure that strange computer graphic designed by graphics artists in China which depicts what might have happened in his situation. It is right up there on a level with the German Techno Dancing Chicken, but it is kicking the story and keeping it alive. Also, Woods has an intensely private persona and keeps his personal life to himself which we all should be able to do. So did Letterman. It seems when private people are "outed" the public eats the gossip as if they were eating ice cream.

Personally I feel sorry for him. More for his wife, but for him too. It is really only between them and no one else's business. It doesn't affect his ability and shouldn't affect his endorsements. We're all human and human beings are not perfect. It is unreasonable for people to think they are or to demand it of them.

[Lisa0825]

61. I don't think I have participated in any Tiger threads.... unless it was over the weekend

after a couple margaritas....

But anyway, my 2 cents is that I happen to be one of those people who roots for the "good guy" to win. I like being a fan of someone that I can also like as a person. I do not like people who are cheaters. I do not like people who fuck whoever they want regardless of the effect it is going to have on the people about whom they profess to care.

When a celebrity I like royally screws up, I tend to not call myself a fan anymore.

The exceptions are those who acknowledge their mistakes and have made amends with those they hurt. Letterman, for example, (as far as I know) had his transgressions some time ago before he was married, told his wife about them, and rather than say "give me privacy" he just laid it all out there on TV and said he was a heel. Tiger OTOH seems to prefer covering his tracks and trying to keep it hush hush.

Tiger also MARKETED himself as a family man. This was not someone who's celebrity was wrapped up in being a player, but instead he was trying to secretly reap the sexual benefits of stardom, while also cashing in those benefits via endorsements of him as a "family man."

His wife was duped, his business partners were duped, and those of us who liked him because of his FAUX image were duped.

I do not delight in his downfall, but I do not have much sympathy for him..... for his wife and kids, I do.

[dustbunnie]

66. People go batshit rabid insane over every celebrity who's let his/her dirty knickers out in public.

This has nothing to do with skin color and everything to do with schadenfreude, and also some derision because the man apparently did get a beat down from a woman... his wife no less.

People went much more nuts over Polanski than Tiger, and he's Jewish/white. For some reason you're just noticing it more this time around.

[paulsby]

68. i think it sucks

he cheated on his wife, apparently. that's a bad thing, obviously. but i still LIKE tiger.

yes, he's an adulterer. so was bill clinton. i like clinton too.

[bdamomma]

88. I still like him too, very unfortunate situation but again he is not the first.

[eleny]

74. I think people don't like being deceived by the wholesome image he projected

So when the truth came out and it showed him to be very different from what he projected on the surface, people felt foolish for buying into the nicer image. People don't like feeling stupid for being gullible. They trusted him and for some time he wasn't trustworthy.

I don't follow golf nor do I know much about Woods. But this is why I think some people are glad he's going through this public humiliation.

[MilesColtrane]

75. Did you take the Donald Rumsfeld course on how to ask yourself questions?

Who wants to know?

[Jackeens]

107. Sure did - Straight, No Chaser.

:-)

[merh]

76. I don't think that is what it is all about.

The game of golf has always been considered a "gentleman's sport". It is a game of honor and rules and etiquette. The golfer is playing against himself more so than the other players. It is about self control, self restraint and focus.

Plus, the golf jokes are just too hard to resist.

The human side of Tiger became public because of an auto accident. He is known for his drives on the golf course, who would have thought that his drive at home would be the beginning of his downfall.

And was his wife so teed off that she was intent on driving her point home that Woods is her favorite wood and that the other woman was way off course. If she took a swing at him did she yell "fore" before she took her swing or was she yelling "four?"

I mean, golfers know how important it is to keep their balls clean and how vital it is to avoid hazards and the easy traps that come with playing a round. When a players balls get caught in the rough they often have to deal with a hard lie. A player is penalized if his ball goes out of bounds. I have the sinking feeling that Tiger's short game caused him more problems than he anticipated and he wasn't able to bump and run as he had in the past. He may have taken the desire to rack up as many hole-in-ones as he could in a lifetime much too seriously.

And, a mulligan in golf is a do over. Hit a bad shot? Take a mulligan and hit it again. So, if his wife takes him back after 12, will a new golf term be born?

Hit twelve bad shots, take a tiger and try again. Will a tiger equal twelve mulligans?

[proteus_lives]

77. I honestly haven't seen any race angle to the coverage.

Just the usual "The bigger they are, the harder they fall" energy from celeb stories.


Tiger is more then a star. He's a mega-star. So people will enjoy the rumors and stories for some time to some.

He's the face of golf so he's going to be hit hard.

[Name removed]

78. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Kablooie]

84. Who is Tiger Woods?

[bluetrain]

85. Schadenfreude. Serfs v. Nobles. Old story.

[JohnnyLib2]

87. This brings to mind the so called "third rail" of U.S. politics.

i.e. not-to-be-touched, deadly from the outset, etc.

Thanks for standing steady with a legitimate question, Jackeens. As it happens, I live about an hour from Fuzzy Zoeller and his golf course. The outlook that friendly, good ol' boy Fuzzy voiced can certainly be heard around here; I've heard racial comments about Woods' mess several times already. That reflects some folks, some of the time and certainly not everyone.

Tough topic, eh?


Wikipedia: The phrase third rail is a metaphor in politics to denote an idea or topic that is so "charged" and "untouchable" that any politician or public official who dares to broach the subject would invariably suffer politically

[ConnorMarc]

91. Never Forget America's Racist History

Its forever attached to almost every issue imaginable.

Although Tiger himself doesn't quite "fully claim" his African ancestr (which in itself illustrates the point in my title), the rest of America (read white America) considers him black, think the One-Drop rule (another illustration of the point in my title).

Think back to OJ Simpson, the MASSIVE attention and emotion it earned and most notably the split in the reacion of the outcome along racial lines.

Ok, now back to Tiger. He plays golf, think on the history of golf. A white sport. Not only that, but a RICH white sport. Historically and still today largely played by the uber-rich whites, socialites and corporate lords. Here comes this young turk, an "others" (just like Obama) who has totally dominated the game. So much so he took it to a whole new level. Tiger singlehandedly brought golf from the "shadows" of the mega-rich to mainstream America and dare I say the world.

Guess who might have a problem with that.

Again, back to history, the WORST thing a black man can do is to besmirch the purity of a white woman. Think, Emett Till.

Are you starting to see why you're perceiving some joy in the media?

Expect this theory or premise or whatever to be largely fought against, they don't like this to be brought up, but its always evident. RWers especially hate this argument with a passion. However, it should make things crystal clear.

P.S. - I'm no fan of Tiger, don't even care for the story, just giving a, hopefully objective, insight into the issue.

[goclark]

92. K and R ~

You spelled it out and crossed all the Tee's.

[ipaint]

93. The working class and poor are constantly portrayed and reported on

as stupid idiots, void of both "class" and morals on tv. One rich person gets put through the ringer and it's all of a sudden unfair and racist?

[TicketyBoo]

94. I never had any interest whatsoever in golf

until Tiger came onto the scene. He made golf interesting to me. He's still making it "interesting," isn't he? Ha-ha.

Maybe this activity is a rebellion against his father after he's no longer around to disapprove? I think Tiger was probably on a very short leash for a very long time.

I feel almost as sorry for his mother as I do for his wife.

[Javaman]

98. There are people who simply enjoy taking delight in the failure of successful people, because,

they themselves are not successful or are failures.

It's weird, it's bizarre, it's strange, but the now public permission by society as a whole to take glee in the misfortune of not just others, but celebrities is, apparently, perfectly just fine.

What I do find interesting though is this: in a society that is heavily marketed with the concept that "you too can become a successful whatever, celebrity, professional sports star" and which is believed by just about every moron in this nation, those same people that fall for this BS are also the same ones that take that same enjoyment in tearing down any celebrity that proves to be human.

Sort of like a false sense of self loathing. LOL

[swilton]

100. Good Questions

I wish we didn't put celebrities on pedestals.

I wonder and have wondered if this has anything to do with the mystic of Obama -

That Obama's election symbolically represented the decline of racism and bigotry in this country - and this in turn was exponentially enriched his appeal to the electorate.

Now that he has been elected we see in our own mirror the appearance of this racism anc how it has galvanized political opposiiton on the far right.

[onenote]

101. We can all agree that Tiger was not a good husband. Can we also agree that the other women

involved with him didn't do anything so admirable either?

[deaniac21]

102. Totally racist. It's because he has a blonde wife. Several of

the girlfriends are blonde too. Nothing a racist hates more than a black man with a blonde white woman.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

113. So everyone who doesn't like Tiger is a racist?

[deaniac21]

119. Yes

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

123. That's the funniest thing I've ever seen posted here. Thanks for the laugh.

[Scout]

120. many women in the black community are upset with him ... are they all racists? n/t

[Scout]

121. what if we didn't like him before he got married to a blond white woman?

are we still racists then?

[jakefrep]

103. I've never understood the criticism of apolitical athletes

While it might be nice to see them supporting our cause, I don't see any value in more celebrites spouting half-baked opinions on issues and causes they don't understand.

I think some of this criticism is motivated purely by envy from some activist types that athletes tend to pursue their own pet social agenda rather than their social agenda.

[Divine Discontent]

104. maybe for some, esp. some repubs, but I found him nearly hostile and arrogant from the day I saw him

on TV, and his appearances on TV interviews, his reactions to fans, his incredible cursing on the course, etc, make me dislike him. I didn't rejoice about anything that has happened to him, but he is clearly out of control in some aspects and I hope he is able to pull it back together. I think he's too proud to not come back to golf, and I'm sure if he is seeing a psych, they'll tell him to.

[cornermouse]

108. My first thought when I heard about the possibility of alcohol

and pain killers? The friend who wanted to go pro but needed a golf cart to go around the course and the way Tiger refused to support and even, to some extent, turned on him.

What you send out, usually comes back.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

111. Couple years from now he'll be more popular than ever.

"The Humanization of Tiger Woods." :*

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

116. Not a chance.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

112. I have Lee Elders autograph from the 1981 Masters and I can't stand Tiger.

I like John Daly smoking, drinking, gambling and golfing. How many other golfers in contention for a major have been stabbed in between rounds by their spouse? In regards to race who knows, Tiger denies being "black". He made up a name for his own race. I think mostly he's like the Yankees, most people don't like seeing anyone on top that long. Having said all that, I love to watch him golf. It's just plain sick (in a good way) when he is on. If he could figure out how to drive the ball straight he'd have won 30 majors. He's by far the best putter that has ever lived.

[Feron]

118. Nah. Quite simply sex and scandal sell.

Infidelity is par for the course with professional athletes. It's the rare bird that doesn't cheat on his/her spouse.

But when someone is built up to be a golfing Mr. Rogers with a carefully managed squeaky clean image, it's no surprise that there would be a media fest when the player is revealed to be a serial adulterer with a new mistress popping up almost everyday.

I don't doubt that racism plays a part for some, but overall the media loves to build ppl up and then tear them down. And ppl love a good celebrity scandal so it is profitable as well.

[Iggo]

124. He's a dick. Mystery solved. (n/t)