For-profit colleges haul in government aid: median graduation rate is 38%

[Karmadillo]

http://www.salon.com/wires/ap/us/2009/11/29/D9C9B6KO0_us_for_profit_colleges

Students aren't the only ones benefiting from the billions of new dollars Washington is spending on college aid for the poor.

An Associated Press analysis shows surging proportions of both low-income students and the recently boosted government money that follows them are ending up at for-profit schools, from local career colleges to giant publicly traded chains such as the University of Phoenix, Kaplan and Devry.

Last year, the five institutions that received the most federal Pell Grant dollars were all for-profit colleges, collecting over $1 billion among them. That was two and a half times what those schools hauled in just two years prior, the AP found, analyzing Department of Education data on disbursements from the Pell program, Washington's main form of college aid to the poor.

This year, the trend is accelerating: In the first quarter after the maximum Pell Grant was increased last July 1, Washington paid out 45 percent more through the program than during the same period a year ago, the AP found. But the amount of dollars heading to for-profit, or "proprietary," schools is up even more -- about 67 percent.

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Critics acknowledge for-profit schools can be a good match for some. But they point out median graduation rates of just 38 percent (for-profit colleges counter they're taking on less well prepared kids, and say they actually do much better than community colleges with two-year programs).

Students who don't graduate will be hard pressed to repay their debts. On average, for-profit schools cost five and a half times the price of community colleges. Virtually all students must borrow some money, and even among graduates of for-profit four-year programs, the average borrower ends up owing $33,000, according to the latest government data analyzed by Mark Kantrowitz of the Web site finaid.org. That's about $5,000 higher than even private nonprofit four-year colleges.

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[SmileyRose]

1. Public money and loan guarantees should only be for public colleges

Shame on Congress for ever allowing Pell grants or any other public money to be used at private schools - and it's about time that is changed. Period.

Edit to add, at a time when everyone is so concerned about public spending and the cost of an education, I thank you for posting this.

[sandnsea]

2. How do you think the Obamas went to school?

And do you seriously think somebody from your local state college is going to get the same education as Yale or Princeton or Harvard?

They need to figure out why students are dropping out and try to fix that problem, like maybe the student freaked out at being thousands of dollars in debt after just one year.

[SmileyRose]

3. I simply disagree

I do understand your point, but I disagree.

1. Yale, Princeton, Harvard produced GWB. Clearly, the education is not always superior. The hype does not always match the result.

2. If the quality of the education is dependent upon the mind being educated then there is no excuse why our public colleges and universities cannot supply an equal or even superior education.

[Celebration]

4. THREE types of higher education

state supported public higher education
private non profit schools (Harvard, Yale, USC)
for profit colleges (U of Phoenix)

Honestly, all three have their place. I don't know enough about loans and reimbursement to have an opinion about student loans though.

[sandnsea]

5. What President went to state school.

Why do you think we laugh at Sarah Palin. Her education was pathetic. State school is like public school, it educates the masses. You will never be able to educate the top 1% as efficiently in a class of C students as you can in a class of geniuses. No, not every person will take the same thing away from Harvard or Yale, but money shouldn't be the thing that is the deciding factor on which person has the opportunity.

[girl gone mad]

6. What a disgusting sentiment.

I went to a state school. The admission requirements were higher than for most private schools. I had professors who were Nobel Prize winners. My classes were small. Elitism aside, I'm certain I got as good of an education as I would have at Harvard or Yale. You're a fool.

[Celebration]

11. Harvard and Yale

Apparently at Harvard and Yale you may get a good eduction the first two years, if you happen to get grad school students that happen to be good at teaching. Heck, my daughter had the same situation at University of Missouri, and her education was just fine!

[sandnsea]

17. Univ of Missour is the same as Harvard or Yale

Yeah, okay, whatever.

[Celebration]

23. not the point

The point is that the education you get at Harvard, Yale, or Missouri, and MANY OTHER STATE AND PRIVATE SCHOOLS is completely dependent on whether your TAs happen to take the teaching part of their job seriously. It is the luck of the draw.

And I guarantee you that there are students at Missouri who get a better education than at Harvard and Yale. 90% of what you get out of school is what you put into it, not what someone shoves down your throat.

Obviously the average Harvard or Yale student is either really brainy to begin with, or has great connections. There are a lot of the latter, frankly. Look at W.

[Celebration]

7. Didn't Carter go to U of Georgia?

I think he did. I could be wrong.

You can't put all state schools in the same box. University of Texas is not University of Idaho. Plus, you can't put all students in the same box. There are fine students at the University of Idaho, I'm sure.

[caraher]

19. Since Truman, here's where presidents received bachelor's degrees:

Obama Columbia
Bush Yale
Clinton Georgetown
Bush Yale
Reagan Eureka College
Carter US Naval Academy
Ford Michigan
Nixon Whittier College
Johnson Southwest Texas State Teachers College
Kennedy Harvard
Eisenhower West Point

(Truman never received a bachelor's degree)

I can't believe the ignorant stereotyping of schools I've seen here. "State schools" is hardly a useful category as they serve an enormous range of purposes. There are faculty at highly-ranked research-oriented "state schools" who darken the doors of classrooms no more often than do faculty at the Ivy League institutions. There are some at top research schools who love to teach and excel at it, both graduate students and tenure track faculty, and many who just go through the motions.

I do think it's naive at best to conclude that a preponderance of grads from Ivy League schools in any way indicates that their education is superior to other institutions. First, note that they are highly selective - if you get your pick of students who have already proven themselves high achievers, you'd better wind up with a crop of distinguished alums! Second, there's the whole "networking" aspect of attending an elite school. It would be a mistake to confuse the impact of learning with the boost having the right connections can give any career in any field (and this applies both to getting in - remember that BOTH our Yale grad presidents were admitted as "legacies"). At best, it proves they don't drop the ball...

[SmileyRose]

8. I can agree with you on that point.

Money should not be the deciding factor on which person has the opportunity.

Totally agreed. And if our society has decided to uphold the Harvards and Yales as superior, rightly or wrongly, and that image opens doors for the best and brightest then granted we are stuck with it for the time being -- but I would like to see that changed.

[Karmadillo]

9. Why do you think we laugh at you? What a pathetic post.

nt

[sandnsea]

16. Oh now there's a worthy response n/t

[DBoon]

10. Many state schools are top-rank

Top ranked public universities (University of California among others) produce some of the finest graduates in the world

UC Berkeley is the third ranked engineering school, with University of Illinois ranked 5th, and UM Ann Arbor/UT Austin also showing up in the top 10:

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-engineering-schools/rankings

These are hardly mass education for "C" students, and are proof that public universities excel

[sandnsea]

15. Some are

But you still have a better chance of reaching the top of your field if you go to an Ivy League School. I honestly don't know why people deny something so obvious.

[Book Lover]

12. Yes

State colleges and university systems are filled with people who have to teach. The big private names are filled with people who want to, and can, do research. They don't teach: their TAs do. If you think going to Yale or Princeton or Harvard means you automatically get a better education than someone going to State U, you've bought what they've been selling.

[Celebration]

13. you hit the nail on the head!

Although one of my daughters went to Missouri and she had TAs a lot of the time. Thankfully, they were good.

Two others went to private colleges that happened NOT to have the TA system.

[sandnsea]

14. Right

That's why Harvard and Yale and Stanford grads are the ones running the biggest companies in the world, elected to the Senate, engaged in groundbreaking science - it's all just a big coinkydink.

[Book Lover]

20. Don't act stupid. Of course how society is run is no coincidence

But attendance at Harvard, et al, isn't enough to get you into the club. That's what Daddy and his money is for. Harvard has something like 20,000 undergrads and 12,000 grad students right now - like in the general population, only the select few get to run our nation-cum-culture.

And if you don't mind me asking, where did you get your college degree? Mine comes from Queens College, CUNY. If no one minds me lifting some info from the wiki page wholesale, here is what one public college produced in just the business and government area:

Business

* Robert Bertoldi - Class of '76. CFO of Amphion Innovations PLC and co-founder of VennWorks LLC.
* Frank M. Boccio*- Executive Vice President and CAO, New York Life Insurance Company
* Lawrence Cohen - Consultant and Entrepreneur. Former President and CEO of The Merv Griffin Group of Companies
* Jerry Colonna - Well-known venture capitalist and entrepreneur coach
* Daniel Goodman - CEO of Goodman Strategies
* Nathan Leventhal - Former President of Lincoln Center
* Allan Loren - Former Chairman & CEO, Dun & Bradstreet Corporation
* Ruth Madoff - Wife of Bernard L. Madoff
* Donna Orender - WNBA president
* Leonard Schutzman - Chief Financial Officer, PepsiCo
* Charles Wang - founder of Computer Associates, owner of the New York Islanders
* Victor H. Ruiz - CFO of Victor and Son Books distributers and one the inspirations of the characters of the Entourage series on HBO


Government and politics

* Kevan Abrahams - Nassau County Legislator (D) Nassau County 1st Legislative District
* Gary Ackerman - United States Representative from New York (1983- )
* Joel Benenson - Democratic pollster, American political consultant
* Joseph Crowley - United States Representative, New York's 7th congressional district, Queens County Democratic Chairman
* Hon. Marvin E. Frankel - litigator, judge, legal scholar, and human rights activist.
* Andrew Goodman - civil rights worker, murdered in Mississippi at the age of 20 during Freedom Summer of 1964, while still a student
* Alan Hevesi - former New York State Comptroller, former New York State Assemblyman, former Queens College professor
* Dov Hikind - New York State Assemblyman
* Rory Lancman - New York state Assemblyman
* Helen Marshall - Queens Borough President
* Hiram Monserrate - New York City Councilmember
* Jose R. Peralta - New York State Assemblyman
* Toby Ann Stavisky - New York state Senator

But of course, since this was a city-run (not even state!) institute of higher education, all of these people received a shit education.

[sandnsea]

22. Your list makes my point

For example, Allan Loren went to American University and Stanford for Executive Management after CUNY.

I did not say people receive a shit education if they don't go to a top twenty school, I said they don't tend to get to the top of their field. And your list makes my point. Most of your list aren't at the top of their field and I would bet the few that are went to a top twenty school somewhere along the line, like Loren did.

[Poiuyt]

18. Most private colleges and universities are non-profit

To deny federal money to these institutions would be a great disservice to our educational system.

[Gormy Cuss]

21. +1