Old Fridge? "Cash for Appliances" Looms

[Liberal_in_LA]

Old Fridge? "Cash for Appliances" Looms
Washington Post: Federal Program will Aim to Boost Sales of Energy-efficient Models

(Washington Post) This story was written by Peter Whoriskey.
In U.S. history, there may have been no better time to own a junk car, a rattling old fridge and a leaking dishwasher.

On the heels of its ballyhooed "Cash for Clunkers" program for cars, the federal government is expected to finalize details in the coming weeks of another tax-supported shopping extravaganza, known as "Cash for Appliances ."

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"The premise seems to be that for Americans to be richer, they need to throw out their old appliances faster - I don't see it that way," said James D. Hamilton, an economics professor at the University of California at San Diego, who has blogged about the clunkers rebates. "I don't like the idea of just spending money for its own sake."

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/11/27/politics/washingtonpost/main5798138.shtml?tag=cbsnewsSectionContent.6

[hfojvt]

1. they already had such a program

the government was gonna buy me a new furnace. The program was only available to people with lower income, but it also included landlords. Thus a poor tenant could apply and get a new furnace for his wealthy landlord. They had something like $5 million in Kansas, and they ran out of money before I even got bids for the work, about one day after I started the application.

[itsrobert]

2. Stupid idea

Just giving money away to China.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

20. Uh, most appliances in the US aren't made in China. n/t

[itsrobert]

21. Well, Mexico

Ok?

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

29. Oh, I forgot that Mexico and China are the same country.

Silly me, what with my fancy map readin' and whatnot.

[itsrobert]

31. The point is most appliances aren't made in the USA

Got it. Brainiac?

[UndertheOcean]

3. Consume , consume consume ,,,,,,,,,consume ...CONSUME

I SAID CONSUME GODDAMMIT .

[lapfog_1]

4. It's probably more like CONSUME LESS...

electricity, that is.

I'm guessing that there is an efficiency factor in the appliance upgrade.

So yeah, buy new appliances, and burn less coal and oil and natural gas.

[UndertheOcean]

6. Bovine refuse ...... the energy needed to manufacture/ transport said appliances is a few times

larger than what the old ones would consume during their lifespan

[katkat]

9. undertheocean

Let's see some data on that, thanks.

[lapfog_1]

11. Prove it.

Start with the typical refrigerator.

http://www.thegeoexchange.org/fridge-power-consumption/index.html

http://www.oksolar.com/technical/consumption.html

Replacing a typical 10 year old refrigerator (1300 to 2000 KWhrs/year) with a newer one saves over 1/2 of the electricity for the lifetime of the appliance (let's say 12 years).

That's 800 Kwhrs a year for 12 years or 9,600 KWhrs. In my region ($.12/Kwh) that's $1,152 of cost. And you are going to tell me that the energy needed to mine the material, transport it, smelt it, shape it, assemble it, and ship it is more than $1100, but I can BUY the thing for $699. That doesn't make sense. Even if you drop the price of energy used in manufacturing... it still has to be a small component of the final price.

[Tesha]

14. And much of the "embodied energy" in the old appliances is still present...

and recoverable in the form of refined steel, copper, and aluminum;
nowadays, it's nowhere near a total loss of embodied energy when
an old appliance is retired.

Tesha

[anigbrowl]

25. Uh, no....or appliances would cost more more than they actually do

your thesis requires that the manufacturer or retailer subsidize the cost of the device significantly. Most appliances don't travel that much - from factory to showroom, from showroom to your house. Then they sit there for years until they are replaced, which may be a decade or longer. It might seem like there's a lot of money goes into transport and so on, but only because there are a lot of appliances...if the average replacement time is once a decade, that's still 20-30 million appliances a year.

[PJPhreak]

5. They live.....

[Mimosa]

7. Many kitchen major appliances are now made in South Korea

I was shocked that the LG fridge we bought 3 years ago was manufactured in South Korea. It's not particularly well made either. The plastic on a shelf cracked after 6 months. They sent us a new veg drawer shelf to install from an older model.

I guess making refrigerators and washing machines/dryers falls into that category of 'jobs Americans don't want'?

[Tesha]

19. I don't mean this to be snarky, but where did you figure LG (formerly, "Lucky Goldstar") was made?

LG, Hyundai, Samsung, Kia, are all Korean.

Tesha

[704wipes]

28. not untrue, but a number are still US manufactured

I am not certain, but I think GE, Whirlpool and Amana still manufacture in the US some if not all as far as ranges and Refrigerators are concerned. I guess we could research it it rather than dismiss all appliances as manufactured overseas. I am pretty sure Whirlpool is still in Evansville IN and Lousiville KY to some extent. Maybe something is still made in one of those towns?

[katkat]

8. you completely omitted

that just like cash for clunkers, the new appliances have to be energy efficient. I guess you don't like conserving energy, tho. Or being less dependent on oil from our Middle East friends.

Really, sometimes I wonder what's happened on this site. Do people read any more, or just go nuts over headlines? This is like being on Politico when they posted about Hillary revamping the State Dept buildings and didn't mention the magazines were paying for it, and the commentors all went nuts about "taxpayer dollars being wasted."

We're Democrats. We're supposed to be able to read and think.

[TicketyBoo]

10. Partisanship aside,

reading and thinking went out of vogue with the ascent of Sarah Palin.

(Sorry, could not resist; too good an opening.)

[Stevenmarc]

12. Good I could use a new fridge

[Gormy Cuss]

13. For anyone who would consider replacing a fridge under this program, here's a savings calculator

http://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?fuseaction=refrig.calculator&screen=1

Ten years ago we replaced the '70s era fridge in this house with the highest Energy Star rated one at the time. The old one was 16 cubic feet, the new one 19, yet our electric bill dropped by more than $20/month.

It may not make sense to replace a newer refrigerator but if you have a 20+ year old refrigerator the rebate program may be just enough incentive to replace it.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

23. Cool beans, thanks! Our fridge is on the outs. We've had it since I still had all of my baby teeth

[Lugnut]

30. We replaced a 30+ year old fridge in March.

Since then our electric bill has consistently been $20 a month lower than normal. We need a new upright freezer but we're waiting for the rebate program to start.

[Xithras]

15. I'm holding off on buying a new refrigerator until this is finalized.

My 8 year old Kenmore has been plagued by rust, mold, and failures (I've spent more money repairing it over the past 8 years than I originally spent purchasing it). Now the sheetmetal on the front under the water/ice dispenser is rusting through because the damned thing has apparently been leaking water inside the door for who knows how many years. It's destined for the scrap heap whether we want to scrap it or not.

Anyone have any suggestions on a HIGH QUALITY, union built, American made refrigerator I can buy? My wife wants a bottom freezer this time around, but other than that we're not too picky. And please don't suggest Kenmore...I'll never buy another Kenmore POS ever (it doesn't matter, because I was told yesterday that many of the newer Kenmores are rebadged LG's anyway)

[tabbycat31]

17. I need a new washer badly

I paid $25 for mine at a garage sale and it's on its last legs.

Does anyone here know of a good union built made in the USA washer I could buy (I don't use the dryer so not needed)

[imdjh]

27. The service man told me that if you buy a front loader, buy the extended warranty.

And boy have the prices come down on the front loaders. I was shocked at the black friday ads. My problem is, that I have a used appliance place that has fairly nice stuff at less than half of the new price, and with a one year guarantee. So I really have to sit down and do some cypherin' to figure out what's a good move.

[anonymous171]

16. JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS

JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS

[williesgirl]

18. This is great news for me. Mine is sooo old and hanging on by a thread. Now to figure out how to

afford the payments! rec'd

[Deja Q]

22. For Americans (or anyone on this planet) to be richer,

you develop, manufacture, test, and release products properly. Not slam-bam them with questionable quality components and make them so they fail more quickly, prompting faster re-purchases.

[WhiteTara]

24. I need help getting a new fridge

I'm broke; my unemployment ran out 3 months ago and my fridge runs all the time; the drawers are broken so the various temp controls are worthless, but I don't have money to get a really good one. This way I could upgrade; be more energy efficient and give an American a job making more fridges. It think it has merit. It's called stimulus and going green.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

26. Apparenlty we should just dig a hole in the backyard and line it with a wet burlap sack.

Otherwise you're a one of the sheeple consumers.

[WhiteTara]

32. novel concept

hadn't thought of that one since the 19th century!