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It's Official: Lieberman going to Block Senate HCR Bill. Now on MSNBC

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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 01:41 PM
Original message
It's Official: Lieberman going to Block Senate HCR Bill. Now on MSNBC
Edited on Mon Nov-09-09 01:45 PM by berni_mccoy
Andrea Mitchell is covering that Lieberman will officially block the bill.

It's a big ol' "Fuck You" to the poor and the sick.

And to all the DUers that would chime in and say "Good!", well fuck you too.
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villager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
1. it's time to break this little fucker, and all the Republicans
That actually may be the best thing to come of this "reform" -- yet the Dems would have to either go "nuclear' and end the filibuster, or salvage what parts they can through reconciliation.

Yes?

Or am I missing some other tactic?
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Bitwit1234 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #1
26. Why take anything out of the bill that was weaken enough
Go nuclear ...beat the S.O.B's at their own game. After all they pushed legislation down the throats of the democrats who didn't have the votes. And all the democrats so damn weak and sissified that they are going to let them get away with it.

HARRY REID as I found out from checking has the authority to remove Liberman...get his butt out..do you DU have the reserve to flood Reid with letters, and phone calls, email won't do, because they just put it in the pile and it is never read. So send letters, overwhelm him. We are supposed to have about 100,000 members maybe more and I am sure we can afford 48 cents for a stamp...send it to him. When he gets the pile he will know he better get with it or else. Remember all the letters that the sent about Santa Claus, this is just as or more important.
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #1
59. +++++++++
Edited on Mon Nov-09-09 07:53 PM by cascadiance

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Phoebe Loosinhouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
2. Anytime now. The big reveal.
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Connie_Corleone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. The Repuke party can have him.
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bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. what a pain in the a$$ this guy is, isn't he listening to American
people we want healthcare, why should we beg for it? crap.
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WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #2
15. He's figuring on killing health care reform, the Dems get the blame
and the GOP takes back over in 2010.
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. And step 4 and 5
Lieberman switches caucuses and gets his seniority and chairs back.
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #15
22. If Holy Joe kills HCR, Holy Joe will get the blame..
along with his Republican comrades.
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #2
38. I have to disagree with your analysis.
I think Joe is just doing the bidding of Obama and of a lot of the conservative Democrats, like Baucus, and Blanche et al, and what will happen it that they will "reluctantly" remove the already non-functional PO (to guarantee that it can't ever become functional at some later date) they will strip away the drug price negotiations, and probably they will do some other big concessions to their corporate overlords and both Joe and Snowe will vote for the bill after it's been properly formated.

This will give cover to Obama and to the other Dems so that they can continue to collect contributions from the industry without having to take direct personal responsibility for making the bill even more industry friendly than it already is.

Joe will play the bad cop, and all the Dems can point to him and blame him while they stash their loot and tell their constituents that it was the only way to get any reform at all.

Come election time, Obama will stump for Joe. Watch.

I've read this book before.
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ipaint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #38
56. Exactly.
Besides the fact he just co-authored a bill custom designed for Obama to hide torture photos despite a court order to release them. Joe's just doin' his job.
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Razoor Donating Member (472 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
3. lieberman is a idiot!
how much money does he actually get from insurance special interests? anyway to tell?
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Ironman3476 Donating Member (82 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. It depends on whether you include his wifes whoring. n/t
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Ozymanithrax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 01:45 PM
Response to Original message
5. This will make a lot of people here at DU very happy...
After all, it is better to allow 40,000 people to die every year then to try and fix the system.

Kucinich and Liberman, twins separated at birth.
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onehandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 01:46 PM
Response to Original message
6. Go nuclear. nt
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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 01:46 PM
Response to Original message
7. Solutions?
Does stripping him of his chairmanship help get the bill passed? because right now that should be our top priority. If it does, then yes, go ahead and take the chairmanship away.

But if removing his chairmanship only serves to make us all feel nice and good inside, while doing nothing to move the bill forward, then there is no point.
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Contrary1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #7
20. No it doesn't get the bill passed, but on the plus side...
it serves to make me feel nice and good inside. So there is a point.
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ObamaKerryDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #7
32. No, but it would apply pressure on him..
..it would be pretty damn intimidating, I would think. I would think he wouldn't want to lose his chairmanship over this, something that probably took many years to get? :dilemma: But then again, that's assuming he's still of a rational mind..
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crikkett Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #7
44. The point - at some point you have to make an example of someone.
they can run it through the system again and this time Dem senators will cooperate. It's not like he wasn't warned, and it's not like he hasn't earned it.

Really. Reid or any manager for that matter who makes a threat like "fall in line or face demotion" had better follow through or face losing their own credibility and position of leadership.
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Winterblues Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-10-09 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #7
68. It may not get this bill passed but it will put all on Notice of the consequences
Of doing a historic thing by siding with the opposition on a precedural vote. He can vote his conscience on the bill itself but to stop even debate on a procedural vote is unprecedented. He would be making History in that regard. He should lose any privilege of the Majority.
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Aramchek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 01:47 PM
Response to Original message
9. we just made a huge step forward, of course the opponents are trying to tell us this is a dead end
They are wrong.

Lieberman will not stop this.
If he tries, he will still fail and lose all his power.
Go for it, Joe. You will be crushed in the coming Tide.
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
11. Only if it contains the non-functional public option. Lieberman is giving cover for all the other
Dems so that they can cash their health insurance industry campaign checks without getting flack from the likes of us.

They will "reluctantly" drop the non-functioning PO, drop the drug price negotiations, and maybe outlaw the minimum wage, then they will pass the bill and you will claim victory along with Obama.

Good Work!
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harun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
12. Lieberman will not be able to stop HCR.
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
13. it's also a 'fuck you' to the President.....
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #13
28. I think he's helping Obama remove the non-fuctioning PO and the drug price negotiations
That way Obama doesn't have to look like it was him that did it and Obama can deliver on his promises to the health care industrial complex.

Kabuki at it's finest.

Come on, you people can't be that naive...
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ipaint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #28
57. Well if this thread is any indication...
yes, they are- :crazy:
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-10-09 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #28
71. Obama-bashing BS.
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 01:53 PM
Response to Original message
14. At least Dennis Kucinich will be happy
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rudy23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #14
21. More proof--this is a manufactured talking point. n/t
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robinlynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-10-09 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #21
62. yep. walks like a duck.
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-10-09 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #21
64. Are you disputing the fact that Kucinich does not want this bill to pass?
:shrug:
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-10-09 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #64
69. who knows what he wants for the Senate bill? Where is it? It's not even out yet.
It's a pretty big stretch to interpret his non-consequential vote in the House as a final verdict on the outcome.
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #14
23. as are you, methinks....
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-10-09 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #23
65. Youthinks incorrectly
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Tommy_Carcetti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 01:54 PM
Response to Original message
16. Strip him!
Strip the bastard of everything he's got.
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no_hypocrisy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. And do it RIGHT AWAY after passing the HCR.
Edited on Mon Nov-09-09 01:56 PM by no_hypocrisy
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mvd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #16
51. Strip him right now
No more compromising. He can go join the other caucus.
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Contrary1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 01:54 PM
Response to Original message
17. Get rid of him!
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ObamaKerryDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
24. I'm thinking it was a mistake to keep this little prick in the caucus..
Edited on Mon Nov-09-09 02:10 PM by ObamaKerryDem
I think if he actually attempts this, his chairmanship(s) should be stripped. Let's make him put up or shut up.

Tell me again, how was this moron ever on our ticket? :banghead:

The Repubs can have him as far as I'm concerned. Fucking corporate tool and traitor. :grr:
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 02:01 PM
Response to Original message
25. Isn't Lieberman supported by Insurance Companies...
just about more than anyone else in the Senate?

If this HCR package is such a big bailout for insurance companies, wouldn't he be supporting this bill, not trying to kill it?

Sid
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Kansas Wyatt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #25
39. He will work to weaken it more and make it even better for the Insurance Industry.
That is why he is crying foul.

'So Senator Lieberman, what do we have to do to get you to vote on it?'

Sen. L. - 'Well, I just think the government should restrict further expansion of the public option, because that would be unfair for the Insurance Companies to compete with.'

Cheer Leading Squad on DU: 'OMG! OMG! OMG! This is the best this country has ever done and it helps a few, so the rest of us should be happy, even though we will get screwed. We got a foot in the door! YES!'

To bad the door will be heavily chained and reinforced, rendering the foot in the door useless. Along with finalizing it, so anything in the future would have to undo this abomination to correct anything and actually GET Health Care Reform.
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optimator Donating Member (606 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 02:01 PM
Response to Original message
27. who's going to stop him?
Reid? lol
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msongs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
29. that's what happens when you aim low and go down from there nt
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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. Moronic. If it was Medicare for All, you'd have more Dems joining him. At least Kennedy knew this.
He tried to get Medicare for All in the past and never got it out of committee.
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 02:03 PM
Response to Original message
30. Joe is a WHORE...(sorry to Tarts and Strumpets) He has sold his sorry skinny ASS to the GOPiacs
A POS he is
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TZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
33. Fuck you Joe Liebermann
You make me ashamed to be Jewish, asshole. :grr:
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Kansas Wyatt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
34. Come back next year, which will be perfect for upcoming elections.
And start over with the way it should have been done the first time, instead of conceding from the start, so we at LEAST end up with a Strong Public Option, without any Giveaways to the Insurance Industry. Like 65% - 70% of Americans want, and like we were promised.

If the Democrats were to do that, they would actually PICK UP seats in Congress in the 2010 Election, instead of facing the loss of seats in 2010 & even more losses in 2012.

After all, the White House and the Democratic Congress does want to get it right for the American People don't they?

The American People don't have to have Health Care resources taken from them and squandered, just so the Insurance Industry can forcibly extort excessive profits, through the Federal Government, from the American People, do they? Is this what the Democrats represent?
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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. Sure. Let 44 thousand more die. Nice solution.
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Kansas Wyatt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #37
40. Those 44 thousand are going to be covered in January, 2010???
Are you sure about that?

Just think, if we would have followed the Medicare model, who all would be REALLY covered in January, 2010?
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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. Yes, there is a temporary insurance pool for immediate assistance
Beginning on Jan. 1 2010.

Delaying this bill will kill reform and delay anything meaningful for years to come.

You will have the blood of these people on your hands if you support killing it.
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Kansas Wyatt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. You could have provided a temporary pool before REAL reform passed...
At any time, but helping people is NOT what this is all about.

Insurance Industry BAILOUT is what this is all about.

Do you really believe doing it RIGHT next year, will cost YEARS? Please explain?

How many people are going to be put in unnecessary hardship due to failed Health Care Reform, which will harm their health and lives?

So the Middle Class gets stuck with permanently paying for the Insurance Industry's gouges for the last 10 years, and face mandated acceptable premium increases and forced seizure and imprisonment if they resist?
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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. For fucks sakes I'm tired of you purists. Single Payer or nothing, right?
Edited on Mon Nov-09-09 02:51 PM by berni_mccoy
Go hold Joe's hand as he filibusters this bill to hell.
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Kansas Wyatt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #43
47. Thank you for giving me permission...
Edited on Mon Nov-09-09 03:01 PM by Kansas Wyatt
No matter how much you argue for this bill, it is still deeply flawed and grossly inadequate, which is not what the American People voted for and gave a mandate to deliver.

If two thirds of the country wants a Strong Public Option, without giveaways to the Insurance Industry, then why are you against that so much? That's a lot better than this shit.

Edit: Oh, see post #39 too.
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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #47
50. Forgive me if I don't go along with your all-or-nothing bullshit.
Maybe you should try living with a chronic illness for a while.
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Kansas Wyatt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #50
55. AS I TOLD YOU BEFORE...
At age 13, I was diagnosed with Type 1 Diabetes. That was 27 years ago, so I know all about the Insurance Industry / Death Merchants.*

At age 25, a wreck that crushed a leg and left me with a stretched and torn sciatic nerve in my pelvis, which still causes severe nerve pain in my leg.

Seen enough, or do you want more credentials?

Oh, and since I had to survive, I endured and suffered to go to work to support myself, which DISQUALIFIES me from your 'help' and actually threatens the coverage that I do have now. I accepted the only life choices available to me to get that, after I endured 10 years of doing without. By the way, your bill still would not have covered me at any point either, so don't tell me how great your bill is.

*Nice signature line.
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WI_DEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #34
46. If it doesn't pass this year it won't next year.
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Kansas Wyatt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #46
52. Who says?
Especially when you start off giving the people what they want.*

65% - 70% of Americans want at least a Strong Public Option, without giveaways to the Insurance Industry.

White House - Check
Senate - Check
House of Reps - Check
2/3 of Americans - Check

What is the problem again?
:shrug:
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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
35. Reconciliation-This Isn't Funny Anymore
Wormtongue needs to be kicked to the curb.
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liberalhistorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 02:09 PM
Response to Original message
36. Then we need to "block" HIS health care, paid for
by we, the taxpayers, many of whom, like yours truly, are uninsured though we pay taxes to cover the cadillac health care of congress critters like Lieberasshole. Why the hell should he get cadillac health care paid for by the very people he's trying to deny care to????????????
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mvd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 02:57 PM
Response to Original message
45. Sickening
This is where Kucinich is different from Lieberman - Kucinich still wants reform and isn't preventing the bill from passing, Lieberman doesn't want real reform and will try to block the bill.

Big time reconciliation if Lieberman does this. It's not a perfect bill by any means, but I was happy it passed since it does mark real progress at least in the American health system.
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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #45
48. Kucinich would have blocked it if he could have, but there is no Filibuster in the House.
Kucinich is no better than Lieberman.

There is no "reason" column beside the yea/nay column. It's simply nay or yea. And Kucinich has sided with Repubs more often than with Democrats. Like Lieberman.
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mvd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #48
49. I disagree and you have no proof of that
Edited on Mon Nov-09-09 03:02 PM by mvd
No way you will convince me, either. I won't Kuninich bash.
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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #49
53. Kucinich voted with repubs on climate change
Edited on Mon Nov-09-09 03:08 PM by berni_mccoy
Oh, but he votes his conscience, right.

Every time he does, he forces Pelosi to negotiate with people like Stupak. Oh, and you know Kucinich was a pro-lifer too, right?
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aint_no_life_nowhere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 03:14 PM
Response to Original message
54. And I heard that he's trying to foment more anti-Moslem hysteria
Edited on Mon Nov-09-09 03:15 PM by aint_no_life_nowhere
I heard a story on the early news about Lieberman forming a committee to study terrorists hiding in the military as a result of the Hasan case. Can't he at least wait until the military have concluded their own investigation? On Fox News this past Sunday, Lieberman point blank called Hasan a "home grown terrorist". He may be a murderer, but is he a terrorist? Even the top brass at Fort Hood haven't called him that yet.

Lieberman certainly is a busy little asshole.
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Brigid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 03:24 PM
Response to Original message
58. He has just signed his political death warrant --
I hope.
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 07:55 PM
Response to Original message
60. Maybe now is the time to push for a bill ending the ability to be hired by campaign contributors...
Edited on Mon Nov-09-09 07:55 PM by cascadiance
So that we stop the "revolving door". Then perhaps Senators like Baucus and Lieberman who are probably counting on that door being open soon for them, since their political future probably won't allow for any future elected office, might suddenly start to rethink their strategy. That way they can't "Tauzin" themselves a retirement job!
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 07:58 PM
Response to Original message
61. We'll see. It will be to extract a price.
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-10-09 01:27 PM
Response to Original message
63. It is beyond discussion at this point
What he's doing in attacking the health of families in this country is an act of war in my opinion.
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TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-10-09 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
66. What we need is a nuclear 50 for a full and robust PO on a 100% open exchange threat
That'd get some folks in line and ready to speak sensibly right quick.

A decent bill would churn right out or if certain heels remainded dug in then we'd do what we should have in the first place.

and no I didn't say single payer aka the real thing we should have done in the 1st place because there aren't 50 or anywhere close to even bluff with.
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LatteLibertine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-10-09 03:54 PM
Response to Original message
67. Why don't the Democrats
Edited on Tue Nov-10-09 03:55 PM by LatteLibertine
strip this fool? He's definitely a corporate puppet. Send him to the Rethugs.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-10-09 04:38 PM
Response to Original message
70. Strip this bastard's chairmanships!
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