I'm hearing rumors that heathcare will cost the individual...

[spin]

plan member or family more than it does today.

Potential Impact of Health Reform on the
Cost of Private Health Insurance Coverage

***snip***

Market Composite:

Single -- Average premiums for an individual that are estimated to be about $4,800 in 2010, will increase
to approximately $8,200 in 2019 in the absence of reform and will increase to $9700 in 2019 if these
reforms become law

Family -- Premiums for a family purchasing insurance in the private market will increase from about
$13,000 in 2010 to approximately $22,000 in 2019 in the absence of reform and to approximately $26,000
in 2019 if these reforms become law.
http://www.politico.com/static/PPM116_pwc2.html

Heathcare in other industrialized nations costs one half of what our country pays for inferior care.

Total Health Expenditures Per Capita, U.S. and Selected Countries, 2003


chart from http://www.kff.org/insurance/snapshot/chcm010307oth.cfm

If there is any truth to this rumor, we all need to buy large quantities of Vaseline as we are about to get screwed in BIBLICAL proportions.

Do the people we elect represent us or do they serve the big medical insurance companies?

[Atman]

1. All I can add is...

... :popcorn:

.

[donheld]

11. All I can add is

[marybourg]

2. Was that a rhetorical question? nt.

[pnwmom]

3. If we don't do anything insurance WILL be higher than it is today -- there's no

limit as it currently stands. It goes up every year and will continue to do so.

The bills we have now set some limits, but -- you're right -- they could be much better. Cost control is still a huge issue.

[BrklynLiberal]

4. Rumors??????

Try checking out facts instead.

[spin]

10. Got facts...

The link I posted to the PricewaterhouseCoopers report looked factual.

PricewaterhouseCoopers (or PwC) is one of the world's largest professional services firms. It was formed in 1998 from a merger between Price Waterhouse and Coopers & Lybrand, both formed in London.<5>

PricewaterhouseCoopers earned aggregated worldwide revenues of $28 billion<6> for fiscal 2008, and employed over 146,000 people<7> in 150 countries.<7>

In the United States, where it is the fifth largest privately owned organization, it operates as PricewaterhouseCoopers LLP.<8>

PricewaterhouseCoopers is a Big Four auditor, alongside KPMG, Ernst & Young and Deloitte Touche Tohmatsu.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PricewaterhouseCoopers

This whole situation is starting to depress me, I was hoping that someone could come up with another reliable report that was more positive.

[KharmaTrain]

15. The PWC "Estimate" Was Rigged From The Get-Go

We won't know until a final House/Senate Bill is scored by the CBO...the PWC "estimate" was shot down the moment it went out because it used the worst-case scenario...no public option or any supplement.

That "estimate" was tauted by the insurance lobby and the right wing (do a google and see names like Washington Moonbat Times and Faux Noise) using PWC.

The point is prices will be capped and forced down. How effective? Depends on how "robust" the final bill is.

[spin]

19. Well at least that is the worst scenario...

but I still can't understand why we can't get a system like Canada or Great Britain. My daughter has a relative who move to England ten years ago and she has told my daughter she would never move back to the states because of our heathcare system.

[KharmaTrain]

21. This Country Would Reject Single Payer Right Now...

People want change, but not all at one. Personally, I have worked with both medicare and private insurers and I don't want to replace one god with another. A major favor competition to bring prices down and the public option is supposed to keep both sides honest. It's an even tougher sell in tough economic times where people are concerned about tax increaes and defecits. IMO, if the economy were on sounder footing public option would have a far easier time.

The bottom line is setting up a government program through the option is the first step in a single payer system...that will be inevitable if more people lose their coverage and the public system is successful.

[spin]

26. Personally I want change right now...

to me insurance companies are parasites. I have had several nasty battles with mine over prescriptions prescribed by my doctors. Currently the bastards are fighting me over my prescription for acid reflux, a problem I have had for many years.

Also I have had the wrong code entered by a girl in my doctors office when a blood lead test level was ordered. This was not the first time the test had been performed. The code was for a pediatric lead test. Obviously, it was a simple mistake, but the blood suckers at the insurance company did everything they could to not pay for it.

Medical insurance companies are fine until you need them.

[KharmaTrain]

29. Why Competition Is Needed...

For several years I ran the books for my father's medical practice and I saw first hand how the insurance companies play god...deciding what is covered and what isn't...and this was a decade ago, I'm certain things have gotten worse. We also had a lot of problems with Medicare...they also would only cover certain types of procedures and had limits on how much a person could be charged...in some cases we had to send patients home since their benefits had run out and then readmit them when the benefits kicked in again. Thus there's no perfect win/win and why so many seniors have supplemental coverage that picks up where Medicare leaves off.

I've long been in favor of a public option as a way to balance the two...having the government dictating prices will drive down prices for all but allowing those who want to keep their coverage or to get a supplemental. The key is right now to get the many working poor who have lost coverage or been priced out the basics and to set up a system that can grow over the years. Also breaking the monopolies...allowing more companies to insure means either lower costs or better coverage. It also is important to allow individuals to choose their coverage and take it out of the hands of employers who use it to make life miserable for employees whose main reason for having the job is the insurance.

Lower the costs and keep 'em honest...force both the government and the insurance companies to fight for our business.

Cheers...

[spin]

30. Not a bad plan! (n/t)

[rosesaylavee]

5. Wow.

How much you getting paid for this drivel?

[regnaD kciN]

6. Isn't this the (in)famous PriceWaterhouse study commissioned by the insurance industry?

:eyes:

As I recall, when it came out a few weeks ago, it was roundly debunked.

[NYC_SKP]

9. Zactly.

Unrec.

[spin]

12. God I hope so.

I fortunately will be on Medicare in two years. But my son in law and daughters medical insure policy unexpectedly jumped $15 dollars a week just last week.

That's what started my research on the cost of the proposed heathcare plan.

I know people who live in Canada and Great Britain. They love their heathcare.

[HughMoran]

14. ding! ding! ding!

Wish I could unrec this thread 100x

[mdmc]

7. someones gotta pay - might as well be me..

[NYC_SKP]

8. Where did you get this?? That same 'report' is on FreeRepublic and is the subject of spam emails...

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2362582/posts

and, if true, it refers to the Baucus bill, and was a hot topic more than two weeks ago or longer.

http://forums.handloads.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=24398&PN=1

Do you have a link to the actual Politico Article?

Where did you dig this up?

[spin]

16. I googled "will healthcare be more expensive for the individual"...

and followed the first link to a site called Tidefans.
The link was http://www.tidefans.com/forums/non-sports/94328-baucus-senate-health-care-bill-will-make-health-insurance-more-expensive-not-less.html

A post then linked me to the report.

The site itself appears to be primarily dedicated to Alabama Crimson Tide Sports, not to politics. I glanced through the comments in the post, but figured I'd post here to get better feedback.

I started to worry about the cost of heathcare in the future when my daughter told me yesterday that her husband's policy had just suddenly jumped $15 a week. He drives an 18 wheeler through the southern states for a Georgia trucking firm. The economy has dramatically effected the amount of business the trucking firm has. He's fortunate to have a job, but I've had to dip into my retirement to help pay some of their unexpected bills.

To be honest, I haven't been tracking this issue until today. Even if the heathcare program is passed I believe that it will not take effect until 2013. I fear the insurance industry will rape the policy holders until that date.

[NYC_SKP]

17. Thanks. That's the Baucus bill. It's too soon to tell what the final result will be...

but damned unlikely that what we end up will leave us paying more than if we do nothing.

Best luck to you and your family, and all of us...

:toast:

[spin]

22. When my daughter's insurance bill jumped...

she just looked at me and said "Dad, I can't afford to pay any more money for medical insurance."

[Warpy]

13. People who read Politico

are going to be fed garbage like that. Oh, it looks spiffy, like somebody must have worked a very long time to come up with the figures.

However, it all came out of some insurance executive's butt like everything else they put out on health insurance reform.

Please consider the source before posting this stuff.

[spin]

18. My apologies. Note I posted that I had heard rumors...

concerned about the sudden increase in my son in law's insurance policy I started to do some research. I found this report and it bothered the hell out of me, so I posted to get comments.

If you do follow this issue, what is the expected cost for a lower middle class family expected to be when the heathcare law takes effect.

I should rephrase that as a upper poor class family.

[Warpy]

20. Insurance premiums in the public option will be a fixed percentage

of income up to a maximum premium cost. Private insurers don't have any such constraint since they're exempted from antitrust laws and largely unregulated.

I was talking to a friend earlier who just got hit with a 37% hike in his insurance premium.

I'd say the sky's the limit for the insurance corporations.

However, your best bet for getting any hard numbers at all is the CBO, not Politico.

[spin]

23. It looks like our only chance for real reform is the public option...

somehow we have to convince our representatives to vote for it.

[haele]

24. Health care goes up every year, and has gone up in double digits every year for the past 6 -

It's "open enrollment" time again at work. When I got married over 7 years ago, open enrollment in Nov 2002 showed the cost of the same coverage I have now for our family of 3 to be at a premium of $210 in a 2 paycheck period ($105 every 2 weeks/$2730 a year.) Doctor's co-pay was $10 per visit,- even for specialists and physical therapists, Mental Health $20 per visit, Hospital/ER $150 per visit, Pharmacy at 3-tier; $10, $15, $25. Deductible was $150 out of pocket per person before insurance payment coverage scheduling after deductible kicked in at 85/15. The company paid about $6K a year to "match" me.

In 1992, the co-pays were about the same (I think the only difference was that hospital/ER might have been only $100), and the premium only went up about 5% during that period (as in, as a single, I was paying about $75 per 2 week paycheck, and most of families were spending about $100 a paycheck through the mid 1990's to 2002)
2003, the premium went up to $260 "a month" (every 4 weeks)from around $210, and doctor co-pays went up to $15 a visit, Mental Health to $30, and Hospital/ER to $200.
2004, premium went up to $280 "a month" , no change in co-pays. Company had to start coughing up $8500 a year to match.
2005, premium went up to $310 "a month". Pharmacy co-pays went up: $10, $20, $30. No change in doctor co-pays. Company's share went up to $9250 a year.
2006, premium went up to $350 "a month". Co-pays remained the same. Deductible was raised to $200 out of pocket. Dental coverage was dropped from $2500 a year to $1500 a year.
2007, premium went up to $380 "a month"; co-pays unchanged. Deductible raised to $250. Company's share went up to $10000 a year.
2008, premium went up to $420 "a month" - $5460 a year - doctor co-pays remained the same, pharmacy went up:$15, $25, $35. Deductible raised to $300 out of pocket. Payment Coverage Scheduling after deductible dropped to 80/20, with some procedures or visits dropped down to 50/50 if there is no "urgency" or "serious health considerations" (which sucks when you have an emotionally challenged teenager who's always getting "sick") Company's share went up to $12500 a year.

In 7 years, my "private insurance plan" through my employer, using the same insurance company (Aetna), has doubled. And service has dropped.
We've been informed that this year, we get a new pharmacy plan through "MedCo" (whomever they are) as Aetna was going to get too expensive, even though we keep Aetna as part of the cafeteria plan we have. The Employee Benefits plan is going to drop covering emergency referrals for mental health support, which was provided through Cigna, because they didn't think billing $15 per call to a crisis counselor hotline would be a "employee benefit".
But this year, they are advertising a new benefit to waive the co-pay on one mammogram and one prostate exam per year for a "qualifying employee" (age based, of course). I don't know how much more my premium is going to go up, whether or not the out of pocket is going to go up and the payment schedule after deductible will be going down, or what services might be dropped. And I can guarantee my company will be paying significantly more of a share this year.
And this year, the insurance companies are asking to be allowed to use up to 35% of the premiums and employer share they get from us for overhead and profit - not that there's much in the laws on the books now to keep them from doing that anyway - they just have to be more sneaky than they would be if they got permission. What would keep them from raising rates "to keep in line with medical costs" to be able to get even more money from customers and taxpayers to give to stock shareholders and executive perks and to play with on the stock market.
Without a true "non-profit" competition, there's absolutely nothing to keep them from playing short-sighted games of inflating costs and reducing actual services to make the books look better for their friends and investors.

Haele

[SoCalDem]

25. Know what's different?

The other countries in the chart "charge" for health care via TAXES...not taxes PLUS health care premiums + co-pays + deductibles (like we do).

When you add the cost into progressive/indexed tax rates, and do NOT charge co-pays, or use "deductibles" , health care becomes "fair", and affordable because it's tied to the INCOME of the people..not the cost of the services rendered, or the medical condition of the individual...

The way we are approaching it, is bass-ackwards..

[spin]

27. That sums it up. (n/t)

[inna]

28. No, they do not represent us.

Except the selected few, like Kucinich and Sanders.