"Liberals don't read, why they don't know the issues"

[nadinbrzezinski]

Yep, from the teabagger event today...

Now I will say something rather controversial but the data supports.

Liberals don't read, and neither do conservatives... for pleasure that is. We have a pretty illiterate population, and leaders on BOTH sides take advantage of it.

Oh and when both sides do read, they read two very different realities. This does not have at all to do with the truth... forget the truth. This is a perceived reality. They are 180 from each other, and having been to more than one anti war rally, where I heard some things that had me going... WHHAAAA... and today hearing plenty of things that had me going WHAAAAAA... I can say that both sides have that problem.

Oh and it is so dramatic, that it is almost dealing with mirror images of reality. Why you cannot have a talk with a true radical on the other side. As one put it today, liberals have their ears plugged and don't want to hear.... well we have experienced the same.

So if we are to break this pattern, actually things like today, where we can mingle and not scream at each other... perhaps will start to break down the cartoon image we have of each other. If not, I was truly convinced that something ugly will happen.

Oh and yes. today the speakers were talking to the converted. and true believers. Funny thing so do ours at our rallies...

And of course speakers in the speaker circuit have also reported this. And this is a very dangerous pattern...

That is all, and this is your food for thought.

Now for the next event I NEED A HAT, and a bag to carry the Evian in... yes it has to be EVIAN... no other water would do...

:-)

And of course, that was the wrong tea party. Would you believe it? NO Earl Gray, with cream of course, and crumpets or at least scones and jelly...

[proud2BlibKansan]

1. We are in a civil war

It started in 2000, when the president was appointed by the SC. Or maybe even earlier when the wingnuts were so nasty to Clinton.

At any rate, it's too late to talk nicely and get along.

The good news is our side is winning. Cause their side not only is losing elections and members but their infighting will destroy them.

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. Cold Civil War and the first shots, as far as I can tell

were fired in 1996 during the impeachment.

The problem is that cold civil wars turn hot sooner or later. That is what I mean about the ugly things.

[AlinPA]

34. This is the "hottest" that I have seen it since the '60's and it is worse now.

Now some media (especially Fox) have joined one side and are doing its propaganda.

[nadinbrzezinski]

39. They were nowhere to be seen yesterday

though all media was doing it pretty low key.

We had signs to the effect of Keep listening to fox, it makes us rich.

Well, one person said... "where is fox? That is what I want to know!"

[krabigirl]

36. Yep.

[depakid]

2. The teabagging event I attended in Portland, Oregon had some very bizarre characters

None of which- and I mean NONE of the dozens of people I spoke with- had clue one about health care, economics, or any other issues they were hollering senselessly about.

One had a big sign that said: "read the constitution."

I asked him "how many Articles are in the Constitution?" A seemingly very simple question that anyone with a familiarity with the document and the jurisprudence would for various know- but of course, he didn't. LOL.

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. Well today of course they quoted the preface to the Declaration

given by god so you know...

Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness

Well one of the original versions had the original Lockian phrase

Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Wealth....

So why not? Use that... and add John Locke ON GOVERNMENT....

Hey, we billionaires went to good public schools, such as Eaton most likely....

(For those wondering, in the UK Public Schools are private and Eaton is the creme de la creme... of course the plumbing don't work... since it is a boys school but hey)

[depakid]

12. They quote all sorts of things

without having the first idea of the context or what it meant at the time it was written, much less how it applies (or doesn't apply) in the 21st Century.

[nadinbrzezinski]

14. I know but it goes back into the NOT readying

The speaker today was right... except for one part... it is not conservatives or liberals who do not read... it is the American people. An ignorant people is easier to manipulate.

[timtom]

57. You are so, so terribly right.

I am currently working part-time as a tutor in a writing lab at a small university. The lack of understanding of major cultural monuments and icons is sad.

And the lack of anything resembling a classical education is nothing short of disastrous.

I remember when Sputnik went up in 1957, the hue and cry was "Oooh. Oooh. Gotta teach more math and science. Them Russkis beat us into space."

[ieoeja]

58. You should offer to read the whole laundry list of complaints in the Declaration.

They would be confused through the first half, cheer heartily at the single mention of taxes, then go back to being confused through the second half. Particularly since so much of it has to do with the colonists anger at the new king's strict constructionism and draconian punishments for crime.

So it really wouldn't do any good. All those other issues would be forgotten half a second after they heard it. They would never realize that taxes was a negligible cause of the American Revolution, and that they would have taken the Crown's side on most of the causes.

[proud2BlibKansan]

6. I have been to several and meet stranger folks every time

One girl tried to convince us an amendment had been added to the health care bill that mandated abortions for pregnant teens.

At that same event, an older lady was walking around telling African Americans that Barack Obama wanted to annihilate them.

At another teabag event, a guy claimed he was so anti-socialism that he wouldn't even call the fire dept if his house was on fire. When we asked him how the fire would be put out he said his neighbors would call 911.

[depakid]

7. I know- thankfully, my curiousity was satisfied by one event

Which was even stranger since I'd just returned from many months Australia.

Did a bit of a photo essay/oberservations at the time:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5467525

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. Oh trust me they got really silly

I don't have photos, since I was playing a character... but boy... they got really weird.

But it did strike me how some views of the other are exactly that, THE OTHER... and as a historian that worries me.

After all the OTHER... is usually less than human.

I got one who said, after he was told we had a right to be there under the First Amendment...

Well I got the second... (we all know what that dog whistle means)... so I calmly told him, so do I, are you making a threat? He walked away.

[Eric68601]

8. Nice one.

I'm still waiting on that elusive pro teabagger who will say, without dodging the reality of life, that they are so against socialism, they would be willing to forfeit Medicare & Social Security.

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. We came THIS CLOSE to asking that question from a couple older

people...

[proud2BlibKansan]

11. Oh I have met several of them

They claim that those programs will be broke before they are eligible anyway.

[Golden Raisin]

16. Or the road (and it's upkeep)

that they drove on to get to the event. Or the public transportation they took. I'm assuming they didn't walk.

[madamesilverspurs]

46. "Strangeness" is drawn to these events

like moths to flame. At one of our local events, one woman showed up who was absolutely convinced that Obama intends to turn seniors into soylent green. . .

---

[PDJane]

3. I think I'm very glad that I still live in reality ......

Thank you very much.

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. And here is the problem

if you asked them... they will say the same thing... word for word... and the two realities are very different. That is my point.

[PDJane]

15. I am aware of that..........

But what I was getting at is that I don't live in the Untied States.

[nadinbrzezinski]

26. Ah. Got it.

[Fumesucker]

17. Reading is *hard*...

I mean you have to know words and stuff..

It's much easier to just sit back and veg out in front of the glass teat.

A couple of written phrases that usually indicate to me that someone doesn't read much: "tow the line", "wallah"..

Reading is for nerds and who wants to be a nerd?

[nadinbrzezinski]

27. Yeah but my point is that I can safely say this for BOTH sides

readying is what pointy headed, too educated, intellectuals do.

Readying Jacoby right now, and she makes that point in the first chapter... even the converted comment... and I went... WOW that is the kind of confirmation of her thesis I did not want to have.

[Fumesucker]

50. I wasn't really taking sides..

I agree that neither side reads that much, although I suspect it's even more true on the right than the left, oointy headed intellectuals tend to be more on the left than the right although that's not an ironclad rule.

These days I go into even wealthy homes and there are *zero* books or magazines but every damn room has a glass teat, even the kitchen.

People largely stopped reading for entertainment when it became possible to be entertained without reading.

[nadinbrzezinski]

56. Fully agreed, we have ONE TV

at home... a few radios, and a bookshelf with books.

In my defense though... the way things are going... you would find that I do most of my reading on the IPOD these days...

:-)

Mostly that space issue.

[Fumesucker]

60. I just found a book swapping service online..

Put up ten books for swap and I have credit to get two sent to me, I've already ordered one and won't order another until I'm close to done with that one, I save my actual paper books for reading when I don't have access to the computer these days. I have a laptop but the battery is about shot so I have to plug it in to use it.

I've been reading a lot on the computer as well, I don't have an ipod and the screen on my cell is a bit small for comfortable reading, mostly I use it to play MP3s and podcasts.

[90-percent]

18. generalize about teabaggers at your peril

I was the lone counter protester at the Hartford CT Tea Party September 11. My sign said:

TEABAGGERS ARE ASTROTURF PUPPETS OF FASCIST CORPORATIONS

I met some people at the end that were very intelligent and very intense. I would say even one of them was smarter than I am and was a pretty focused thinker. highly precise in his thinking, as his occupation as a computer programmer demanded it. We still disagreed, but this fellow was impressively intense.

Misjudge your enemy at your peril. There are some on the other side worthy of respect.

-90% Jimmy

PS - they renounce "teabagger". It should be "Tea Partier".

[proud2BlibKansan]

19. I have been to most of their events here and haven't encountered any intelligent ones

They are consumed by hate and their ignorance is absolutely astounding.

As for calling them teabaggers, they coined that phrase and at every one of the events I have attended there are several folks wearing hats with tea bags hanging from them as well as signs referring to themselves as teabaggers. They own that one.

[nadinbrzezinski]

29. NOthing funnier than the 70 something wearing that attire

who is a woman... the double sexual entendre is just too much.

[HughBeaumont]

25. Ehhhhhh.

I would think anyone with ANY modicum of intelligence, especially a computer programmer, would steer clear of attempting to defend or justify FAILURE. Their party was largely in charge for the past 29 years and presided/aided/abetted corporate theft that failed the American people. Any right-leaning libertarian is in accordance with this economic way of thinking.

[mitchum]

44. Not to generalize about the field, but I have met several programmers who...

are just batshit crazy Randians. I don't know why that is so.

[HughBeaumont]

48. Yep, and did you ever notice the science fiction genre draws a lot of them also?

I don't get it myself. Why don't they just admit they're Republicans - Jesus?

[ieoeja]

61. Well, in the 80s and 90s we practically needed bodyguards ...

... to keep people from forcing us to take ever better paying jobs. Oh, the horrors!

Pretty easy to get an inflated sense of self worth after a couple decades of that. Doubly so if you spent all your time with your peers (something I did/do not).

[nadinbrzezinski]

64. HEEEEYYYY I write sci fi!

Actually the reason why it does is that the genre is no longer forwards looking or asking questions. No way people of the golden age of sci fi, like Heinlein, would be published today.

So it is a self fulfilling prophecy and it has a lot to do with WHO controls what. It is easier to do social cometary in fantasy... than in sci fi.

[nadinbrzezinski]

28. Read the OP again... I am not

when the speaker said... Liberals don't read... I went... Americans don't read.

That is the point. And BOTH SIDES can be taken and are taken by the nose and led.

That said I found the agreesive ones yesterday...

I found the ignorant ones.

I found the one willing to listen

And the one willing to agree to disagree and that we had a RIGHT to be there due to the FIRST AMENDMENT.

Oh and I also found the second amendment fan that made a threat and walked away when he was told that I also had that right.

So I'd say I am not generalizing, now am I? Except to say AMERICANS DO NOT READ... and the statistics are with me on that one.

[AlinPA]

35. Teabagger it is, then. nt

[krabigirl]

40. Um, I doubt they are at all intelligent of the way things operate in other nations, cultures, etc.

Sorry. I don't respect people who want to take away our civil rights and turn this country into a theocracy. That is their true goal.

[BolivarianHero]

43. Most of them would logically be in New England...

New England remains the last bastion of intelligent, rational Republicans, although they're going the way of the Dixiecrat who still votes Democratic.

[zoff]

49. Yup they're teabaggers then, and the GOP is the tea party.

Ahh, so you were that brave soul in W Hartford! I knew you had to be a DUer! You rock!

[truedelphi]

65. The MTBE issue here in California was brought to the fore and

then the additive was STOPPED, in part because of vocal people on the Republican side of things. The average Democratic voter was too busy listening to the bought-out Sierra Club, and other environmental orgs, who were saying that MTBE was good for the environment.

No one side owns Truth.

[lonestarnot]

20. Get it NB!

:applause: K & R!

[Realityhack]

21. This is a very good point. And we see it even here on DU.

Obviously we have a biased sample and are likely to see a very high percentage of people who read. But time and time again we see people even here not following links or even reading entire posts before responding to them with a preconceived set if ideas.

It is unfortunate how many people are unwilling to do any real research or look at actual facts before forming opinions.

[GMA]

22. Great post!

When you get a little towards center on either side, though, you still find dramatically different world views, which makes reasoning with each other difficult. But simply insulting the opposition as a whole does nothing, and nothing good can come from it.

[olegramps]

23. This isn't a tea bagger party.

From what I have seen, it has far more in common with the Mad Hatter's Tea Party. These people are definitely living in a time warp. They are as bizarre as Lewis Carroll's cast of miscreants. They remind me of what he wrote in "Through the Looking Glass", ch. 5.

"One can't believe impossible things."

"I daresay you haven't had much practice," said the Queen. "When I was your age, I always did it for half-an-hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast."

Today's Republicans can believe six impossible things concerning President Obama on a daily bases. He is a Muslim, born in Kenya, not an American citizen, his birth certificate if not valid, he is a communist, he is a socialist...and this is just a start.

[Mrs. Overall]

30. Great post!

[nadinbrzezinski]

31. Look in the mirror, because that is exactly what they think of you

as I said the thinking is 180 and mutually exclusive and that is DANGEROUS.

[BolivarianHero]

45. You're incorrect...

They actually believe that he's a SOCILIST MUSLIN NATZY!!11!!111!!1!!!1shidftonwe!

[JVS]

24. Just because our lips don't move, it doesn't mean we aren't reading

[nadinbrzezinski]

32. I read the current statistics in Jacoby's book, the Age of Unreason

and no, the American people do not read for pleasure.

48% have read a fiction book in the last year, and it is in the low 30s for non-fiction.

DU is not the norm.

[Mrs. Overall]

33. That book is amazingly informative--

very good explanation of the roots of anti-intellectual conservatism in this country.

[nadinbrzezinski]

37. Been interested in the subject for years

and read the other one in college. She is good.

Her comment about her going around and preaching to the converted... I went... that is not quite my experience in College... been out for over 20 years. Yesterday did a lot to go... damn... we are really polarized!

20 years ago we went and listened to people without having to do it for credit... Hell's bells I went and listened to Mayer Kahane... talk about a horrible human being...

[mitchum]

42. I also recommend Idiot America by Charles P Pierce as another excellent analysis...

of our current situation

[Mrs. Overall]

51. Thanks for the suggestion--

I'll try to get that book as well.

I have so many right wing, anti-intellectual relatives and the chasm between us is getting frighteningly wide.

[nadinbrzezinski]

55. Another one to add ot the list of reading,

My dyslexia has been taken on a new edge... say I am a tad distracted by the death of my pet 'Tiel...

[mitchum]

63. I am so sorry for your loss...

I know that profound pain. My thoughts are of you.

peace,
mitchum

[krabigirl]

38. I'd wager that liberals read a bit more than convservatives, ro

I live in Orange County, CA, and all of the "conservatives" I know profess to reading nothing more than fashion magazine, for the pictures.

[nadinbrzezinski]

41. Given statistics discovered by people like Jacoby

I'd wager that no, the average liberal and the average conservative relies on OTHERS to do the readying for them.

[ieoeja]

62. "reading" not "readying" (nt)

[tjwash]

47. Piffle...everyone knows that Earl Gray is best with a twist of lemon, one lump, and no milk.

British Breakfast blend, however is fabulous with a dash of whole milk, and 2 lumps. The scones and jelly are the only way to go with either however.

:hi:

[nadinbrzezinski]

52. Oh my so you are from the OTHER side of the tea controversy!!!!

:hi:

[tjwash]

59. I just came back from a road trip to England yesterday...got my fill of Tea.

Wonderful trip...hated to leave.

[Sebastian Doyle]

53. LIBERALS don't read???

But teabaggers DO???

And Glenn BecKKK books (with him dressed as a fucking Nazi on the cover, no less) don't count.

[nadinbrzezinski]

54. Read this again... BOTH DON'T READ

This is not a political side, but an American trait.

Oh and Glenn Beck is readying as much as Michael Moore... they are just 180 from each other, and that has it's own dangers...

Now you and I may agree that Moore speaks the truth. But for the other side Glenny does... see the problem?

Oh civil wars come to mind when we have this polarization.

[Jennicut]

66. Well, what do they think we do all day on DU?