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Liberal_in_LA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-23-09 11:54 PM
Original message
Marathon median times drop as the masses enter. Hard core runners despair of the trend.
Plodders Have a Place, but Is It in a Marathon?

Every weekend during this fall marathon season, long after most runners have completed the 26.2-mile course and very likely after many have showered, changed and headed for a meal a group of stragglers crosses the finish line.

Many of those slower runners, claiming that late is better than never, receive a finishers medal just like every other participant. Having traversed the same route as the fleeter-footed runners perhaps in twice the amount of time they get to call themselves marathoners.

And its driving some hard-core runners crazy.

Its a joke to run a marathon by walking every other mile or by finishing in six, seven, eight hours, said Adrienne Wald, 54, the womens cross-country coach at the College of New Rochelle, who ran her first marathon in 1984. It used to be that running a marathon was worth something there used to be a pride saying that you ran a marathon, but not anymore. Now its, How low is the bar?

Tens of thousands of runners are training for marathons this time of year. As the fields continue to grow primarily by adding slower runners so has the intensity of the debate over how quickly an able-bodied runner should finish the once-elite event that is now an activity for the masses.

---------------------

Trends show that marathon finishers are getting slower and slower and more prevalent according to Running USA, a nonprofit organization that tracks trends in distance running.

---------------------

In a debate on the Web site slowtwitch.com, someone posting as Record10 Carbon wrote that more than half of the people at a marathon are just overweight and trying to get a shirt and medal ... looking to one day tell a story about the saga and the suffering of their 11 minute pace race.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/23/sports/23marathon.htm...
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Gulftrout Donating Member (89 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 12:01 AM
Response to Original message
1. Get rid of the Shufflers
They don't belong on the road with the real runners. Shut the clock off at 5 hours.
That way only people that ran a majority of the race get an official finish.
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MattBaggins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #1
8. How about if you go Cheney yourself and enjoy a nice hot
cup of STFU afterward.

People who are at least trying to change life styles and be a bit more active are to be applauded and encouraged to continue. I could not care less if your elitist sensibilities are offended by the great unwashed masses giving a go at running a marathon. Give them their T-shirt and medal; it doesn't hurt you in the least.
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 12:59 AM
Response to Reply #8
15. Gotta agree with you. Let the elites finish fast..and then the rest of the
"masses" can just enjoy the trip....and the satisfaction of having finished...no matter how long it takes.
There was a lady with MS who used to walk on crutches thru the NYC Marathon...and it took her almsot 24 hours to finish..BUT SHE FINISHED!! And there were people there to applaud her....and she did not get any money or a car for finishing.

And there is the glory!!!
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tonysam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #15
42. Who the fuck cares what the elites think?
Edited on Sat Oct-24-09 09:35 AM by tonysam
Anybody who wants to participate in a marathon should be allowed to do so...marathons should NOT be competitive events anyway...the goal is to finish it, not to be firstest and fastest.
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Darth_Kitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #42
65. So if it takes someone 5 days, that's an accomplishment?
I don't know about some people, but I think those who train hard and finish in a few hours deserve just a bit of praise. :sarcasm:
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demwing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #65
122. Is that praise predicated on demeaning the slow runners?
I sure hope not...

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 06:17 AM
Response to Reply #8
25. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 09:16 AM
Response to Reply #25
40. The training that these "whiny shufflers" go through...
to finish a 5 or 6 hour marathon is still incredible. Doing a 4 hour run, at 6:00 am on a Sunday morning, in a cold rain? I still have nothing but admiration for someone who can make it through the training cycle, injury free, and complete a 42.2 km course.

Sid
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cherokeeprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #25
49. What rules would those be? The ones you're proposing to change, I mean... n/t
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HughBeaumont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #1
57. They can always get faster and in better shape.
You, however, are stuck with your douchiness the rest of your life.
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RetroLounge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #57
61. ...
:applause:

RL
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Vickers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #1
71. Hunnerd bucks sez this dude is out of shape.

:rofl:
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 12:19 AM
Response to Original message
2. What a bunch of whiners.
Who cares? Seriously. Get a life. In a nation with an obesity problem, it is good that many people have a goal of walking marathons. In fact, more marathons should become more walker friendly.
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Gulftrout Donating Member (89 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 06:19 AM
Response to Reply #2
26. Obese People getcha
self in shape, then participate. Change the rules for the shufflers, that makes the shufflers the whiners.
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 09:00 AM
Response to Reply #26
38. Got cliches?
Why should the rules suddenly be changed?
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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #26
56. actually, you're the one whining
the rules already accommodate the shufflers. :shrug:
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debbierlus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-25-09 12:30 AM
Response to Reply #2
78. Tell me about it. It is all about their ego and them wanting to preserve the 'prestige'

Screw them.

Anyone who wants to should be able to enter.
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Mind_your_head Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 12:19 AM
Response to Original message
3. Is race run for health or prestige?
If it's for health, then the more the better....even if they are walkers.

If it's for prestige, then qualify for the Boston marathon. Someone I know just qualified for the first time after years and years of trying. He's 61 now! And that's a real "wow". I don't think he thinks any less of people who run other marathons on their way...it's "all good". (except for the pickled people~*holds nose*)
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 12:24 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. Exactly!
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 12:51 AM
Response to Reply #3
12. How many qualifying type marathons are there? n/t
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Mind_your_head Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 12:57 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. *I* don't know myself.....but those that are knowledgeable enough to whine
like in the OP know what and how many qualifying marathons there are. Ask the OP. They would/SHOULD know! More information is always *good*.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 12:21 AM
Response to Original message
4. Have qualifying marathons
Open runs can be scheduled a couple of hours after the official marathon starts.
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 12:23 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Why?
The fast runners already start at the front. There's no need to make other people wait.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 12:49 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. To separate it into two
I can see their point. Their whole life is training for marathons. It's like opening a horse race or car race to all comers. It would change the value of particular races.
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #9
37. That's ridiculous, IMO.
They are in the front. They're competing within age, sex and skill classes, as it is. Further, many such marathoners have not been training for life, while some of the slower walkers have been training for years, as well.

If you start the race later, the walkers will be ending at night. It's simply not feasible, on top of it.
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Gulftrout Donating Member (89 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #37
45. How bout a new competition?
The Walkathon !!
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #37
55. Apparently some marathons have qualifications
and they already stagger the start, with the trained athletes at the front. So my suggestion doesn't appear to be that ridiculous after all. All they really need to do is give the two different names.
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question everything Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-25-09 12:51 AM
Response to Reply #55
81. This is true. The Boston and the New York marathons
have their criteria. You have to run, say, the Chicago or the Twin Cities marathon and to complete it at a certain speed to qualify for the big ones.
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petronius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 12:26 AM
Response to Original message
7. That's pretty whiny - how is one person's marathon devalued if another person
finishes in 3x the duration? Sounds like Ms. Wald et al. just want to be special (and if you have to insist on how special you are - you're not.)

Anyway, the first Marathon run wasn't a race, except against the clock and the runner's ability. Why should today's be different?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 06:13 AM
Response to Reply #7
24. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
thereismore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 12:50 AM
Response to Original message
10. Median time drops? I think you wanted to say Median time rises. nt
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Liberal_in_LA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 01:32 AM
Response to Reply #10
20. ooops. thanks. Too late to change
Edited on Sat Oct-24-09 01:32 AM by Liberal_in_LA
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SIMPLYB1980 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 12:51 AM
Response to Original message
11. Pfft!
From a distance runner.
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Journeyman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 12:57 AM
Response to Original message
14. My criteria is to say I "competed" if I ran all the way, "participated" if I walked at all. . .
Can't see how my race enhances or diminishes any other runner. The way I see it, when you appreciate what the reality of the "loneliness of the long distance runner" implies, what other people do in your race is immaterial to what you accomplish.

I told my brother once about all the crazy people who passed me during one run: the 9 running "Elvi" all dressed in white, pushing a baby buggy with a boom box blaring the King's tunes; a group who ran together in a very long serape, the end runner whipped about like a skater in a "snake;" the others who dressed in all manner of weird costumes. He laughed, said it sounded like I was passed by more people than I outran. I smiled, said I easily outran all those who didn't participate.

Everyone who participates enhances the day. Only those who bitch about others diminish the event.
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SIMPLYB1980 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 01:00 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. +100
:toast:
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MattBaggins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 01:02 AM
Response to Reply #14
18. Amen
When you have an event that results in the closing of streets and inconveniences others; then it is automatically a public event and the whiners should get over themselves and celebrate the surge in people interested in exercise.
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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 01:01 AM
Response to Original message
17. Most runners I know are happy to see other people running
And I fail to see how someone who finishes in three or four hours has their accomplishment lessened by another runner who straggles in at six or seven. Seems like a rather petty whine to me. Most races of any size have staggered starts, so it's not like the slower runners are likely to interfere with the faster folk.
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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #17
69. Me too
run on brother
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Sen. Walter Sobchak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 01:05 AM
Response to Original message
19. I never would have guessed they are jogging snobs
Edited on Sat Oct-24-09 01:07 AM by Sen. Walter Sobchak
this is fucking ridiculous - people want to participate in your "sport" be grateful they aren't just on the sidelines complaining about your spandex ass holding up traffic.
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Gulftrout Donating Member (89 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 06:23 AM
Response to Reply #19
27. The fat shufflers
cause the streets to be closed the extra amount of time, not the runners.
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SIMPLYB1980 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 08:43 AM
Response to Reply #27
36. Dude?!
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Le Taz Hot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 06:18 AM
Response to Reply #27
87. That fat shufflers?????
Holy shit! Enjoy your stay at DU while it lasts.
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Missy Vixen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-30-09 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #27
127. It's too bad they breathe the same oxygen, isn't it?
Jesus Christ. Am I at a progressive site, or did I end up at FR when I wasn't looking?

Let's see here: Don't even think about running a marathon unless you can finish in the "prescribed" amount of time. Don't show yourself in public if you are fat. Don't think people should treat you with the same respect and courtesy you treat them with; after all, you're FAT, and you "shuffle".

I can only wish that those here who torment the fat find out exactly what it's like someday.
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #19
47. There Are Some Amazing Outdoors/Sports Snobs
I got into it with a back-packer who insisted on referring to traditional outdoor camping as "car camping."

"I think it sounds kinda snobby."

"But I like it, every now and then you want something cushy."

"Like what wimps do, yeah."

"If I told you I was going back-packing, what would you think that was?"

"I'd think I'll see you back in a few days."

"Well you probably just grew up in a city or area where it wasn't popular."

"I grew up in the Adirondacks."

That was when she got pissed off and huffed away in her $300 rain jacket. To an extent, that's what it's about. Outfitters needed to sell all that shiny, lightweight gear, so they created a different class.
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SIMPLYB1980 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #47
50. LOL!
:thumbsup:
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Sen. Walter Sobchak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #47
62. my brothers girlfriend uses that phrase "car camping"
Her idea of camping is jumping off Amtrak in the middle of fucking nowhere and finding your way back to civilization.
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #62
75. Isn't It Odd?
That it's not enough to call what they're doing "backpacking." Annoying business.
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MrModerate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 02:53 AM
Response to Original message
21. "Hard core runners" who make such complaints should take the stick out of their butt.
That would increase their times substantially. Alternatively, they could go fuck themselves.
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Gulftrout Donating Member (89 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 06:24 AM
Response to Reply #21
28. Great argument
Are you in 5th grade Mr. Pottymouth?
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MrModerate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-25-09 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #28
77. Sometimes truly offensive suggestions -- such as "only serious people should participate . . .
in publically supported events" -- are owed similarly offensive responses. If one presents oneself as an asshole, scatalogical humor is generally the result.

And completely justified.
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Gulftrout Donating Member (89 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 06:44 AM
Response to Reply #77
89. Great explanation
of your pottymouth. I'm sure you did great on your hi-school debate team. How many marathons you ran? I'm guessing zero.
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #89
109. oh my god..
you are pulling out the really tired and infantile argument of "how many marathons have you run?" tactic.

wow, just wow. Resorting to grade school playground attacks is very unappealing.

Honestly, get over yourself. It's really boorish.

And if you choose to attack me as well, I ask you to refer to my comment down thread. #108.
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Gulftrout Donating Member (89 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #109
119. Who died and made you the Governor of Running
Discussion doesn't have to involve trashy language.
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-27-09 08:26 AM
Response to Reply #119
124. ahhh, still using that play ground mentality. LOL
Edited on Tue Oct-27-09 08:28 AM by Javaman
You couldn't counter my stance, so you attack. How very diplomatic of you.

Trashy language? Um, what?

here's some advice, you don't want the "walkers", then start your own race.

It's really that simple.

It's just running. Get over yourself.
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REP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 03:07 AM
Response to Original message
22. Waaaah! Waaaaah!
Oh, not everyone is an 'elite' runner like you, waaah! Shut the fuck up and die of a heart attack, preferably during a marathon, you whiny shits.
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Gulftrout Donating Member (89 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 06:31 AM
Response to Reply #22
29. Change the rules for the
Fat Shuffly runners, sadly they're the runners putting themselves at risk. Thanks for the input and great logic Pottymouth!!
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LeftyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 04:13 AM
Response to Original message
23. Nearly every leisure activity has some friction between obsessives and hobbyists.
:shrug:

Usually the solution is to create separate events for the hardcore, serious whateverers and the people who enjoy whatevering on the weekend.
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Selatius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 06:33 AM
Response to Original message
30. If anything, I figured letting slow people run would boost fast peoples' egos into the stratosphere.
Edited on Sat Oct-24-09 06:36 AM by Selatius
Instead of beating a relatively small number of difficult and fast people in a marathon, they're literally taking on thousands of slow people...and beating them to hell and back, sometimes several times before the slow runners ever finish.

I say that they should stop their bitching and enjoy the fact that they're slaughtering all comers.
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Gulftrout Donating Member (89 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 06:45 AM
Response to Reply #30
31. Good Argument !!
But what's worth more a difficult victory or running up the score on a hapless opponent. Kinda like in college football. You'd rather beat a top 25 team than run the score up on somebody like Rice or Vanderbilt.
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Obamanaut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 06:51 AM
Response to Original message
32. I'm puzzled as to how a slow runner affects the fast runner's time.
Edited on Sat Oct-24-09 07:10 AM by Obamanaut
A marathon is pretty much an individual race against a clock or a personal best.

This is similar, imo, to the argument against same-sex marriages and the ruination of "traditional" marriage. Miz O and I have been married for nearly 42 years, and a loving couple of the same sex getting married will not change that. Nor will another couple getting a divorce after three years. Not one bit.

Everyone should be allowed to run their own race.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 06:53 AM
Response to Reply #32
92. The only way I can imagine it making a difference is that a large number of slow moving people...
at the start of the race might kind of get in the way.
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eShirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 06:52 AM
Response to Original message
33. let them brag about their own start-to-finish time, and stop crying about what others are doing
good grief
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MichellesBFF Donating Member (313 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 07:11 AM
Response to Reply #33
34. I'm training for the Philadelphia Marathon
Edited on Sat Oct-24-09 07:11 AM by MichellesBFF
And I know I'm going to be slow. This is the first time since I've started running (a little over 2 years ago) that I've been injury free long enough to train for the marathon. (I should probably put it off till next year, but pffft!)

Slow runners do not hurt faster runners, if you really care about slower runners how about finding one and coaching them to faster times? Not doing that? Then shut up, and run your own race!

Now I'm off to run a 10K in a downpour...
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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #34
70. Good for you
how was the run?

I am taped up and doing 20 tomorrow
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 07:23 AM
Response to Original message
35. Why not just offer the hardcore runners a special marathon
maybe a day later...or maybe they could all just STFU, and let everyone enjoy their own participation :)
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #35
39. Maybe they can have a few detours uphill.
That'll even things out.
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Gulftrout Donating Member (89 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #35
46. Or a special Marathon
For male runners with man-boobs so they would STFU.
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SIMPLYB1980 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #46
51. Is this street theater or Glenn Beck?

:shrug:

I bet you never leave your moms basement.
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Gulftrout Donating Member (89 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 06:41 AM
Response to Reply #51
88. I've run 13 Marathons
To your 0?
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DaveinJapan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 07:00 AM
Response to Reply #88
95. Assuming you're still around, care to share your fastest/slowest times for us? nt
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Gulftrout Donating Member (89 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #95
116. Marathon Times
My best, 3:47:17, my slowest 4:59:12. The other finishes were in the 4 hr. to 4 1/2 hr. range. The marathon isn't for everybody. It's a brutal test of endurance. I do believe that 6, 7, 8 hour finishing times cheapen and dilute the marathon. You can see from my times I'm not an elite runner.
My best was 17 minutes too slow to qualify for Boston. Call it snobbery, call it whatever. I see a lot of mediocrity attacking excellence out here. You could call me mediocre and that I'm attacking the slow, back-of-the-pack runners. It was excellence that inspired me (Shorter, Prefontaine). The slow run/walkers got heart, but I'm not sure that turning a failing grade into a passing one in the toughest race of all is the way to pat them on the back.
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SIMPLYB1980 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 07:33 AM
Response to Reply #51
97. Yeah right. What's your times, and which ones.
Edited on Mon Oct-26-09 07:33 AM by SIMPLYB1980
I doubt you have even ran a 10K much less a marathon.
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #46
63. You still here, Chilly?
With all your talk about how horrible overweight people are?

Bet you're just the fucking Adonis IRL ain't you. Pencilneck.
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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #35
67. They do
they call it Boston

Loooong story there-much discussion of that race in marathoning circles. NYC does have time criteria but they also have a lottery and you get in automatically if you aren't lucky the first 3 years. Oh and you can raise money- or like Will Ferrell just pay a ton and be given a bib number
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 06:54 AM
Response to Reply #35
94. Let them do 2 laps
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bikebloke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 09:26 AM
Response to Original message
41. Juggler
The Marine Marathon passes my flat. A couple years ago, I went outside to take a look as the end was passing. One bloke walking at a snail's pace and juggling. Crikey.

As the marathon is tomorrow again, I have to remember to put in ear plugs tonight. They always have a band playing down the street in the park at 7 am.
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 09:36 AM
Response to Original message
43. People who aren't that athletic trying to keep themselves in some sort of shape
The horror.
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Gwendolyn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 10:29 AM
Response to Original message
44. I can understand how they feel, A lot of sweat and effort goes into becoming competitive.

An analogy would be established poets competing with amateur rhymers and everyone getting honorable mention at the end of the contest. The achievement is diluted.

The fairest thing to do would be to have time classes, one for the competitive group and another for the less serious. That way everyone receives proper acknowledgment of their effort and ability.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 11:08 AM
Response to Original message
48. I'd rather people participated in athletic events, yes, slow finishers do finish & deserve the shirt
Serious runners can always have some thing that says "finished under X amt time". They will always have their times to flash.

Anyone who participates should get the shirt at the end, unless the sponsors put in a time clause.
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Liberal_in_LA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #48
60. Perhaps different medals depending on completing time? Gold, Silver, Bronze? n/t
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RamboLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
52. IMHO the elites just need to get over themselves
Questions for those of you that know about marathons. Do the entry fees of all the entrants go towards some of the prize money/awards of those elites?
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
53. Sucks To Have Your Scene Crashed, But That's Business
Edited on Sat Oct-24-09 12:22 PM by NashVegas
There are an increasing number of outlets that offer marathon training and they've got to promote marathoning to promote themselves and make a living.

Some of them are set up as charities to promote various worthy causes. I don't see it reversing just yet.
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Taitertots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
54. How can they act like they are better than people when they realize regular people can do it too
It is all about them needing to puff themselves up. When regular people finish marathons they can't rub it in their faces as if they can't do it. Now all they are doing is just running a little faster than everyone else, no completing something they couldn't do.

If there was an escalator to the top of Everest then no one would want to climb it anymore.
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Gwendolyn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 02:17 PM
Response to Original message
58. When did people start sneeringly refer to runners as "elites" like they're the enemy?

It's hilarious on one hand that people can express so openly their bitterness over the achievements of others, but also really sad that anyone with the desire to excel in something like a sport is automatically deemed part of the overlord class, the enemy. :rofl:

While they're at it, I think all scholarships should be abolished. Those "elites" with their high IQs need to be pulled back down to earth. WTF do they think they are? And round up all the Olympic athletes too. Fracking elites!
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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #58
59. It's not necessarily a sneer, it's just a term that's used in running
Edited on Sat Oct-24-09 05:38 PM by fishwax
to refer to those who are actually racing (in the sense that they have a chance to win) in the big marathon rather than simply running in them. It's not generally used as a sneer, just a description (elites often start the race before the rest of the field and may have more stringent regulations, etc.) that is handy since elite runners and club runners and couch potatoes are entered in the same event, a situation which doesn't happen in most any other sport.

The attitude on this thread is as a (misdirected, I think) response to those who are looking down on and/or criticizing those at the back of the pack--but as far as I can tell it's not actually the elites doing this, but rather more like the dedicated and relatively fast lay people looking down on the plodders.
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-25-09 05:11 AM
Response to Reply #59
84. Yes it does
Last time I checked, boxing, wrestling and weightlifting have weight divisions.
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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-25-09 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #84
85. Yes what does?
I agree that those sports have weight divisions, but I'm not sure what that's meant to point out in response to my post.
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 06:03 AM
Response to Reply #85
86. Simply that people who are biologically built to be the best at endurance sports--
--should just STFU about those who are not. Heavyweights who are biologically built to be the best at weightlifting or boxing don't exclude those who are not from participating in their sports.
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Gwendolyn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 07:52 AM
Response to Reply #59
101. Thanks. :-)

It's fairly clear that running marathons has become a much more mainstream, lucrative activity, and like many other sports before it, seems to be going through the usual organizational growing pains. Whether it's elites or middle speed people complaining, it doesn't necessarily speak to anyone's character to ask for or want to negotiate rule changes.
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Gulftrout Donating Member (89 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 06:48 AM
Response to Reply #58
90. Mediocrity
Always attacks excellence.
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UndertheOcean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 08:08 AM
Response to Reply #90
104. +1
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 07:51 PM
Response to Original message
64. How are you supposed to know how well you're doing/improving w/out competing?
Or participating as part of a group? Moronic. And Record10 Carbon can cram it, stupid douchebag.
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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #64
68. They can't good point
as I posted above I had a nightmare in May 2008 (turns out my leg was broken but that is another story) but I did finish. I have a medal. It took 6 hours but I did the 26.2 and then rehabbed/trained for a YEAR and did another one 3 minutes faster than my first. 3 MINUTES- I am improving
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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 07:52 PM
Response to Original message
66. As a 3 time marathoner and doing my 20 tomorrow in prep for Richmond 11/14
Edited on Sat Oct-24-09 07:53 PM by underpants
I have to say that if you cover the distance you did a marathon. period.

Now that should have to be in a preset time (like 7 hours) but if it is not then more power to them.


It is a life changing experience IMHO

and if you are wonering this 230-ish pound multi marathoner with a stride that can accurately be described as "Big Foot chasing after a bus" has done it in
4:43
6:00+ a nightmare but I did finish
and 4:40 (hit "the wall" at 21 at the Shamrock Va.Beach in March of this year)-was well ahead of the 4:30 pace group when the gas ran out

I get the element that thinks there has to be a time limit but if you start asking the front crowd people like me might not get credit for what we achieve and how we sustain the industry (running in general as well as races)

I don't have a problem at all if they finish and get a medal.
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bermudat Donating Member (985 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 08:10 PM
Response to Original message
72. I completed the Lake Tahoe Walking Marathon in September
They had the walkers start 2hours before the runners, and when the runners started passing us

they were offering words of encouragement. I even passed a runner or two. This has been

news to me that runners resent the slower racers. They must really loathe the walkers.

If the cutoff is 8 hours, why would a runner who finishes in 2-3hours give a damn about me

finishing in 7hours?
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DaveinJapan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 06:54 AM
Response to Reply #72
93. Out of curiosity, what's considered a good time for finishing a walking marathon? nt
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bermudat Donating Member (985 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #93
120. A good time would be finishing less than 7 hours. A scorching time
would be between 5.5hr - 6.5hrs.
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aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 08:15 PM
Response to Original message
73. This concern seems weird to me -- marathons are not team sports.


:shrug:
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Quantess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 08:16 PM
Response to Original message
74. I think running or jogging 26.2 miles in one stretch is something to be proud of,
even if he/she finishes last. I wonder why the fastest runners can't allow slower runners to share in some of the glory? You would think the slower people would make the "elite" runners feel even better about their abilities.
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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #74
76. I don't think it's the fastest runners that are complaining
Edited on Sat Oct-24-09 10:12 PM by fishwax
Which makes the complaint all the more silly, if you ask me.
I always ask those people, What was your time? If its six hours or more, I say, Oh great, thats fine, but you didnt really run it, said Given, who finished the Baltimore race in 4:05:52. The mystique of the marathon still exists. Its the mystique of the fast marathon.

(that's great and all, and props for a great race, but it's about an hour and a half behind the winner, and just outside the top 1000 ... http://results.active.com/pages/searchform.jsp?posted_p... )
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cemaphonic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-25-09 12:44 AM
Response to Reply #76
79. Yeah, I noticed that too.
I bet most of the top contenders are thrilled that their sport is so popular (and that their events are well subsidized as a result). I wouldn't be surprised if this complaint is sour grapes from the wannabe-hardcore, that are worried that they are getting lumped in with the people who just want to participate for whatever personal reasons rather than compete.

Also, there is a "marathon mystique?" News to me.
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yesphan Donating Member (295 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 08:51 AM
Response to Reply #79
107. Some perspective
I did the Lake Placid Ironman in 2004 @ the age of 47. It took me just over 13 hours to complete and my marathon time was @ 4:40, by a good margin, my worst marathon time ever. The winner of the event was finishing about the time I was starting the run.

At the awards ceremony the next day, the winner gave some love to all the rest of us slackers. He said
something to the effect that he has the good fortune of doing this for a living and thereby much is expected of him and he gets paid pretty well for his efforts and the rest of us just do this for a myriad of personal reasons. He also stated that it took him just over 8 hours and the pain he had to endure lasted many hours less than some that were out there 12,13,15+ hours.

Anyway, I thought the winner had a very nice take on what we less than elite participants have to go through to reach the finish line.
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Quantess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-25-09 01:15 AM
Response to Reply #76
82. Wow! Those are truly amazing times.
I go jogging 5+ miles regularly, but I think if I completed a marathon, it might take me about 8 hours (I don't know because I've never ran that far). But I would still be proud of myself. Anybody who would look down at me for that must be a deeply insecure person, I would think.
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question everything Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-25-09 12:47 AM
Response to Original message
80. See how she runs
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0078221 /

A wonderful made for TV movie with Joanne Woodward

his is the story of a 40-year-old divorced teacher whose life is changed by her decision to enter the Boston Marathon

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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-25-09 05:07 AM
Response to Original message
83. Maybe wrestling and boxing and weightlifting should eliminate weight divisions
Then small skinny people could experience what heftier people experience doing endurance sports.
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Gwendolyn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 07:39 AM
Response to Reply #83
98. Bullshit analogy.

The reason there are weight classes for sports like boxing, martial arts etc... is because what is being judged is skill, not just brute strength. In order to feature an exciting competition, you match people up of similar size and weight. There is no "skill" involved in running.

And no, you won't find any novice off the street fighting in an organized boxing match. All the weight classes are usually represented by the best talent available.
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-27-09 12:05 AM
Response to Reply #98
123. I think that runners would beg to differ
Sure, it's not an activity that requires a lot of coordination, but it requires a great deal of endurance training. Why shouldn't marthons have size and weight categories?
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 06:52 AM
Response to Original message
91. If the fast people are so concerned about image, they should run it twice while waiting for the slow
I haven't seen smart people go into the library and start kicking out the people who can't read well.
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 07:27 AM
Response to Original message
96. Awww, they hate that the unwashed and unathletic masses are finishing marathons.
I think it's hilarious. It reminds me of the way some objected when tennis players started wearing colors, instead of only white clothes. How dare they break from tradition and throw some color into the game?
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Gin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 07:51 AM
Response to Reply #96
100. my son ran his first marathon Sunday and FINISHED with a time of 5 hours
He trained for it...did his best...and deserved to be in it with the rest..I am very proud of him and his accomplishment...
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #100
115. cool
It's an accomplishment.
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 07:44 AM
Response to Original message
99. i don't get it...
i thought there were staggered time starts for distance races (i.e., the elites get to be at the front of the pack)?? How do slower runners get in the way if the elites already start ahead of them??

and that guy bitching about the slower people cheapening what it means to run a marathon and who just want to 'finish' is a jagg-off... I would LOVE to see him/her say that to the face of the last-place finisher at the Le Mans 24 hours...
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JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 08:02 AM
Response to Original message
102. That's odd...
my impression of serious runners was that:
1) they are concerned with their own skill and ability and are usually running against their own previous best, and
2) they are happy to see other people take up the sport, and usually quite encouraging.

I fail to see the harm to them or their accomplishment if others do not perform as well.
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 08:06 AM
Response to Original message
103. I'll also state the stupidly obvious:
If the uber-elites want their "own" marathon with everyone finishing under 3.5 hours, by all means let them go organize one...Who's stopping them?
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mrs_p Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 08:10 AM
Response to Original message
105. hmm... 11 minute mile
times 26.2 miles sounds pretty good to me. this person is an asshole. is her money better than mine? no, i won't qualify for a boston, but i'm still considered a marathon runner. screw her and those of her ilk.
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RT Atlanta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 08:12 AM
Response to Original message
106. This is bullshit
and you and put me in the slow pace crowd. My pace is 4;30 to 5hr marathon, which is "slow" to the 'elites' noted in the article. I am not fat either.

If the 'elites' want to bitch and moan, they should take their running off-road and try trail running (which is what I do now for anything at a 1/2 Marathon and over). With trail runs, you have distances that go from 50k, 40mile, 100k and 100miles. Although "more and more" people are running trail runs each year too (which means a lot of "slower" first timers), that should in no way diminish the accomplishment - whether you're finishing 26.2 or 100miles.


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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 10:13 AM
Response to Original message
108. I've been running for roughly 34 years, run marathons by the dozen
Edited on Mon Oct-26-09 10:40 AM by Javaman
Never did an ultra but hey, that's me. Have competed in my youth in international competitions against world class athletes, have run everything from a mile up to a marathon in competition and currently training for a half marathon in the masters division.

We all share the road. We all started some place one time, we all were shufflers at one point or another.

For the average person who never worked out or had ever run before, training then running in a marathon, then completing it, is an accomplishment.

Running snobbery is foolish. This is no better than the statement "some animals are more equal than others".

I mean, cripes, it's not like they are getting BMW's or huge cash awards like the winners. (I'll let that sit with you for a while)

I think the heart of a race is in the average runner. They do it for the pure love of the sport. The type of determination displayed by those runners who "walk", takes nothing away from their dream of finishing.

As I get on in years, I used to be a snob runner, being angry at those who "walk" and looking at them as "not real runners". That was so foolish of me, but then again, that was when I was in my teens and early 20's.

The heart of running is in the person, not the time one shoots for.

I have always run to compete, I can't get it out of my system, but that doesn't mean that I as I get older, I don't appreciate the other runners around me.

From the mom, who never worked out or run at all, to the middle aged guy who chugs along, to the little kid who runs and stops, runs and stops and to the 90 year old who finishes the race in 10 hours; my hat is off to all of you. You are the embodiment of what running is all about.

And honestly, at the end of the day, it's just a running race. Not brain surgery. You put on shoes and you run a distance, then you are done.

Get over yourselves.

And so, my snobbish runners, what running is all about? Or have you forgotten?
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #108
111. Well said.
It's guys like you who make running fun. :thumbsup:
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #111
114. Thanks. :) nt
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Gulftrout Donating Member (89 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-27-09 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #108
125. Your Righteous Ramblings
Don't change a thing. If you can't finish a Marathon in 5 hours or less, you shouldn't be out there. The plodders can go find a walkathon. Quit clogging up Marathons. You got blinders on. Those 6, 7, 8 hour finishers are putting their health at risk. Those folks look horrible.
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-30-09 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #125
126. Meh, you are blocked.
I saw your times above. Honestly, they aren't that great. Your snobbery is just so completely misplaced.

You ramble on like you are some Bill Rogers. You have run a gigantic 13 marathons but yet you haven't qualified for Boston? And you go on and on like this?

Man, you have one massive ego.

I have hats that have been in more marathons than you. LOL

Man, it's just running. Point A to point B. Next time you perform open heart surgery, get back to me, that kind of stuff is impressive. But, then again, you won't because you will be blocked. :)

It's. Just. Running.


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Peacetrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 10:20 AM
Response to Original message
110. Oh horse hockey..my husband is a marathoner.. and the
better runners are placed in the front of the pack.. and the slower runners are in the back and do not impact on the more elite runners setting their times..

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Dreamer Tatum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 10:24 AM
Response to Original message
112. Extremely simple solution
Only give medals and t-shirts for people who finish with 4 hours.

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la_chupa Donating Member (357 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 10:40 AM
Response to Original message
113. Americans are fat, anyone who exercises should be encouraged
I'm slow by "elite" standards. I have never done a marathon because it would take me too long to do all the training runs. I do half marathons though. My personal best is 2 hours 25 minutes so assuming that I could pull off a marathon at the same pace I would be one of the 5 hour finishers - maybe.

Most of the races I've seen have cut off times at 3 hours for a half and 6 hours for a full. I thought that had more to do with having the roads shut down and having to man the water stations than anything.

I have no idea what point I was going to make.

OH yea fuck off, what harm does it do if you get the same medal and t-shirt as we slow folk? I would think that your smug self satisfaction at being better than we are would suffice.

and just for the record, there is a guy I work with who I promise is faster than **you** and he's nothing but encouraging to us slow people
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yawnmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 06:15 PM
Response to Original message
117. The marathon runners have a point. It is decreasing their status to have these
untrained masses in the sport.
As a matter of fact, I think that to increase their status immensely, they should destroy all participants who do not finish 1 hour after the first to cross the line.
Everyone could wear one of those exploding neck rings you see in so many movies. Once the finish line is crossed a one hour timer is started and if you don't cross the line before then. boom.
This would also have the advantage of having a major influence on the mean marathon time and really would make the trained runners more important.
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Liberal_in_LA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #117
121. that woud have a MAJOR influence on mean marathon time. lol
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NC_Nurse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 06:16 PM
Response to Original message
118. I can't imagine why anyone would be upset by that. How stupid and self-centered.
:nopity:
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