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The Town of Democratic Underground. Just under 103,000 citizens. What a great place to live.

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A HERETIC I AM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 06:51 PM
Original message
The Town of Democratic Underground. Just under 103,000 citizens. What a great place to live.
Hi.

Welcome to our town. Care to take a little walk with me?
I've lived here for about 4 years now and i like it just fine. It's very diverse, vibrant, active and fairly peaceful. Oh, we have our differences but for the most part, everyone gets along just fine.

We have several Churches; A Catholic Church, a small Episcopal Church, A Baptist Church, a rather large non-denominational Church as well as a Synagogue and a Mosque. Oh, and a fairly good sized Unitarian Universalist congregation too as well as a vocal and passionate non-religious group. There are clubs and civic organizations to meet all tastes. Here on main street is where many of our inhabitants work, whether it is in the small businesses they own or for some of the national chains that have decided to adhere to our strict zoning laws and scaled down from the large, big-box stores they set up elsewhere. We have a Mall on the edge of town where others work. Very few folks from outside town come here to work but quite a few commute to the city. We have a thriving Industrial park on the other side of town where many more of our inhabitants are employed. Seems to me our unemployment rate is about the same as the national average. We have a few folks on the outskirts that have rather large properties, a cattle ranch and a few hobby farms. The folks that live here come from all walks of life and do almost anything you can think of. We have several Banks, Restaurants, a couple Brokerage Firms, Real Estate offices and Insurance companies. At the end of the block is a gun shop that has a shooting range inside and there is an active group of hunters. There is a Golf Course, a Bowling Alley, Hair Salon and a Barber Shop. Oh....and the Bars. We have several of them. There is quite a lively night life here. In fact, one street is referred to as "The Lounge" because it is lined with Cocktail Lounges and Bars of all types. If you stray over there, make sure you take a serious sense of humor with you. You'll find most are very accommodating and you rarely have to buy your first drink if you are new in town.

The age range is from teenagers to the elderly. I know there are small children here because i can hear them but i never see them. There are a few celebrities, a number of published authors, several filmmakers and quite a few cranky old farts thrown in for good measure! It is rumored that several of our quietest residents are famous in politics and the arts, but they don't say much, they seem to just watch the town through the windows of their homes. All of these tend to add style and color that we quite frankly would miss if they were for some reason to leave our fair city. We have Truck Drivers, Pilots, Sanitation Workers, Waiters and Waitresses, Carpenters, Bricklayers, Craftsmen, Clerks, CPA's, Attorneys, Stockbrokers, a Veterinarian or two, Doctors and Nurses, Cooks and Chefs, Seamstresses, and maybe a Tailor. I haven't met him yet but there is his shop, right over there.

Often the national media, be it a Newspaper or a TV Network reports on what goes on here. We think thats fine. It's good to know we get noticed.

One thing you'll find out right away is that there are conversations that spring up on almost every street corner and in every business about any number of subjects at all times of the day and night. Our residents LOVE to talk. Sometimes, the conversations are just between 3 or 4 people about something as silly as what shampoo to use on a cat. Other times, huge crowds will gather with dozens shouting their opinions. It can get rather lively. Usually when it gets to be really big, it draws several of the cops to circle around and stroll through the crowd, looking to stop anyone who might be ready to throw a punch. Once in a while there is a push or a shove and on occasion a punch is thrown. Rarely is the injury any more severe than a bloody nose or damaged pride. More often than not, when tempers flare, the antagonist or protagonist will just walk away. In the most severe cases the local police will break up the conversation and make everyone leave. They do, but it is usually just down the street a little where another conversation will start again. Sometimes these conversations last for days and days. There's several big ones going on right now. You can tell the ones that get heated as they tend to drift up to the top of the street, near the Courthouse, while everyone is sweating and there are several cops in the crowd.

We have a small Police Force, maybe less than 100 Deputies, a Mayor, a Sheriff and a Marshall. The Deputies rotate out every few months so there are no career cops. They carry no guns but they have a weapon no other Police Force in the country has; the magical ability to make someone shut up! It seems to work pretty well. It is rumored that the Mayor, the Sheriff and the Marshall are the town fathers, but i think they just hung a phone on a post in the woods, stuck a flag in the ground, named the town and within days, this town started to grow, but that's just my opinion. I wasn't here then, but i passed through this area before it existed and it was just wilderness. The Mayor is a decent sort, very opinionated but firm in his convictions. The Sheriff writes a weekly column in the paper that is widely read and the Marshall...well....he stays out of sight. I think he sits in his study, playing with electrical devices all day, trying to create a time machine maybe. Who knows? Sometimes an outsider will come into town and start conversations or enter into them and cause nothing but trouble. Then, all of the sudden, he or she disappears. Perhaps that is the machine the Marshall is working on all the time - a disintegrator. (Tip - Watch what you say)

Our history has had it's share of serious problems. Soon after the towns founding, hundreds and hundreds of people came rushing in to the area, trying to tell the Mayor that he had no business setting up a town here, that he was a maniac, that the water was poisoned (or that it WOULD be if he didn't leave) that the grass would die, that no one would come to live here, etc. As you look around, i think you can tell those predictions were all wrong.

Is it a perfect place to live? Surely not. But what place is perfect? We have clean air (we see to it) clean water (that too) good schools and good food. We have births and we miss those that pass away. New folks come to town all the time. Some stay for years, others leave soon after they arrive. Some, for some strange reason, insist on telling everyone they are leaving. This often gathers a crowd of either well-wishers or smart Alec's or both. I could never understand that, but there you go. But all in all, it is a wonderful place to live. Just walk down the street and listen in to the conversations. There is so much to learn and so many incredibly intelligent people that live here. I learn something just about every minute of every day!

Just remember, when you come across one of those large conversations that seems to have drawn a large crowd, try and listen in for a bit. You don't want to say the wrong thing and get the cops pissed at you. Trust me, I know. I was escorted almost to the edge of town at least once!

Well, I hope you enjoyed my 5 cent tour. I'm heading home. Have a good time and I'll see ya around!
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
1. I want a physical town!
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A HERETIC I AM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Me too! I picture it in a nice valley, with lots of trees.
Hope you enjoyed my little tour.
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Breeze54 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #3
24. Play 'The Sims'! lol
Edited on Tue Apr-17-07 07:14 PM by Breeze54
I do and * & the Mrs. are the poorest slobs in town! I keep them that way!
Unemployed and living in the smallest, unfurnished house! :rofl:

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A HERETIC I AM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. Well, every village needs an idiot, i guess.
I just hope, in my drooling old age, i don't get elected to that position!
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BattyDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #24
31. That's not a bad idea
:hi:

I'm completely addicted to The Sims 2 and I'm always trying to come up with new ideas for a community. "DUville" has a nice ring, don't you think? :D


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Breeze54 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #31
36. Sure, 'DUville' or 'OZ' ! lmao!
When I'm really pissed, I torture 'the village idiot' ;)
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BattyDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. LOL!
:rofl:
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SharonRB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #31
45. We could call it Skinnerville!
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Radio_Lady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #45
48. That's better than the one I came up with! Briefly, it was Hooterville!
Edited on Tue Apr-17-07 09:10 PM by Radio_Lady
And Hooverville was too old-fashioned..

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The Witch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #24
49. OK, is that some version of the sims I haven't seen yet? Cause it's
ADORABLEEEE!! Do share!!!

:has serious thoughts about starting up Sims and building a DUville:
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Breeze54 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #49
62. I don't know. It didn't look
right to me. But I googled "The Sims town" and that pic came up, with others. ;)

It was the only 'town' pic that did come up, so, why not post it? :rofl:

Looked like a cute little town! ;)
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whoneedstickets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #1
53. How about a DU hangout in Second Life?
Registration is free, so we could all make avatars. Groups memberships are a built in feature. All we would need is a) a private island or b) a really cool property area.

A number of Democratic candidates have already created Second Life campaign headquarters!
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Capn Sunshine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-18-07 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #53
114. Did you know 2nd life uses more electricity than Brazil?
Seems a trifle profligate to me.
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demnan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 06:56 PM
Response to Original message
2. It would be great
but during the primaries, I'm taking a vacation out of town!

Love ya all still! :loveya:
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Cessna Invesco Palin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. Seriously.
During the primaries I think I'll go somewhere a bit more peaceful. Like Baghdad, perhaps. :evilgrin:
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 06:59 PM
Response to Original message
4. Never a dull moment :)
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supernova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 06:59 PM
Response to Original message
5. It would be fun
to live in the same town with all the DUers, even if I am a loner!

:grouphug: :grouphug:

Nice "tour" Heretic! :thumbsup:
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Phoebe Loosinhouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 07:00 PM
Response to Original message
6. Our Town a la Thornton Wilder and you're a very good Narrator! nt.
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A HERETIC I AM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. Thanks. I appreciate the compliment.
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Marnieworld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-18-07 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #13
92. I actually heard Hal Holbrook's voice while reading this
I actually try and explain DU occassionally to people but it's hard to understand if you haven't experienced anything like it. It is actually a place. It's not a physical place but it is a place we all share in our minds eye together. It really is like a town at this point.

When the Johnson's are about to lose their farm don't we get together and help?
When Suzy's kid is sick or goes off to war, don't we as a community come together to give support? Time, financial or emotional?

Some people say that the internet is making people isolated because it keeps them inside and not "Out in the world". I disagree. I think even a complete shut-in, by choice or circumstance, can maintain contact and connection, in a meaningful way through sites like these.

I think that this is a very special town and I am happy to be here daily. Some of the best hearts and minds around. :patriot:
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A HERETIC I AM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-18-07 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #92
104. If my writing reminded you of Mr. Holbrook, i am honored...
and very flattered. Thanks.

Glad you enjoyed it. :hi:
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 07:00 PM
Response to Original message
7. I still can't get a good pastrami sandwich here.
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Cessna Invesco Palin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #7
15. You can't get a good pastrami sandwich ANYWHERE.
They discontinued the last good Pastrami model in 1987. A real shame, I tell ya.
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Radio_Lady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #15
51. Fort Myers, Florida, huh? There MUST be a good deli there somewhere.
Edited on Tue Apr-17-07 09:12 PM by Radio_Lady
If you find one, let me know.

We'll be down in Sanibel for a week in December!
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A HERETIC I AM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #7
17. ROFLMAO! He he he he.....
Too funny. If i am not mistaken, there are several New Yorkers who know all about Delis. Perhaps you could join them and open one?

Your post made me laugh out loud, literally!
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Skidmore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-18-07 04:40 AM
Response to Reply #7
78. Drop by the Cooking forum...
There's always something good being whipped up over there.
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Lochloosa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-18-07 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #78
95. This town has a cooking forum?....I must get out more.
:evilgrin:
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Make7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 07:00 PM
Response to Original message
8. About 20,000 of them seem to have moved to other towns. ( n/t )
Edited on Tue Apr-17-07 07:01 PM by Make7
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 07:02 PM
Response to Original message
10. Our Town~Pretty good
description! The world is "whacked"..DU is a sanctuary.
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SharonRB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 07:02 PM
Response to Original message
11. This is great
When we were in DC for the march in January, I said to my roomies how great it would be if we could buy some property and set up our own DU-town. You've brought that wish to life in your post.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. Hey, what an idea!
:hi:
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SharonRB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #14
41. Remember -- I said that in DC?
You're a witness -- it was my idea first!

:hi:
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. Yes, I do! nt
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A HERETIC I AM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #11
20. Thanks for the compliment. Glad you enjoyed the post.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 07:02 PM
Response to Original message
12. Very nice, neighbor!
:toast:
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matcom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 07:05 PM
Response to Original message
16. I LOVE living here. Wouldn't change it for ANYWHERE
can we build the real thing someplace warm?

:applause:

EXCELLENT THREAD!

:thumbsup:
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 07:05 PM
Response to Original message
18. Where do we locate the "dungeon"? nt
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A HERETIC I AM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. Right under the Marshall's study?
Through the trap door that is activated by the disintegrator?
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. I'll vote for "Smack dab in the center of the town square"
That's where the truth belongs IMO.
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Grandrose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 07:06 PM
Response to Original message
19. This is my kind of town!
Great post!:applause: I would not live anywhere else! :kick:
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gratefultobelib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 07:08 PM
Response to Original message
22. Very, very charming!! One question for some of you--what do you answer
when someone asks why our "town" is called Democratic Underground? I direct as many people as possible here, but they look askance at the moniker of Underground--like we're a bunch of subversives instead of a group of some of the most informed, intelligent, witty people you ever hope to meet!
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A HERETIC I AM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. Ask the Mayor.
I didn't have anything to do with the name of the town. Why is there an "Accident", Maryland?

Democratic Underground is a little less pretentious than "Democratic Overground". That's just arrogant!
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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #22
27. Rooted in Liberal/Left humor. We are called Undreground precisely because we are in the open
See: humor, Stewart and humor, Colbert
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gratefultobelib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-18-07 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #27
88. Many thanks for an intelligent, witty reply!
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-18-07 03:34 AM
Response to Reply #22
72. I hate to be the one to tell you this but,
we are the subversives, in fact the most dangerous kind of subversives, the intelligent, thoughtful and loud ones. We are the change we want.
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gratefultobelib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-18-07 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #72
89. I know, I know, and I'm proud to be part of it!
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silverweb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 07:19 PM
Response to Original message
28. Love it!
That was a great tour and description of our DU home, Heretic.

:thumbsup:
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A HERETIC I AM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. Glad you liked it. Thanks.
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corkhead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 07:30 PM
Response to Original message
30. best post I've read all week.
We're a big family, we don't always get along, but we do care about each other

:toast:
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A HERETIC I AM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. That's kind of the way i see it. The tragedy at VA Tech and the threads it generated made me think
Edited on Tue Apr-17-07 07:36 PM by A HERETIC I AM
of this. The diversity and passion of opinions is impressive and inspiring.

I have not made any posts in any of those threads, instead standing at the edge of the crowd, listening to everyone shout at each other.

I love it here.

Thanks very much for the compliment.
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BattyDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 07:35 PM
Response to Original message
32. Great post!
:toast:

I wish we could create our own state or even a small country. I'm sure we'd have our problems, but at least the entire populace would be able to spell. :P
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Radio_Lady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #32
46. Well, some of the residents are resistant to good spelling... but...
we frequently turn the other cheek...

Lots of fun to read.

In peace,

Radio Lady in Oregon
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Duer 157099 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 07:39 PM
Response to Original message
34. You've captured my sentiments
That's how I view DU too. And to the person who says there's no good pastrami, they need to check out the local cooking club:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=236

In my *actual* town, there's a street named "Duer" street and I often wished I lived there... :D
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ms liberty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 07:46 PM
Response to Original message
35. Love it! KR&B n/t
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northofdenali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 08:32 PM
Response to Original message
38. I know of some terrific acreage (lots) with trees (lots) and
fresh water (lots) and hills and mountains and tundra and, and, and.....

What a fantastic post, Heretic. I'm glad I'm a resident of this town, and that our Founding Fathers and the Police Force are as great as they are.

I LOVE YOU DU'ERS!!! :loveya::loveya::hug::loveya::loveya:



K&R, Bookmarked, Emailed, Printed and Saved. What a wonderful, heartwarming post when we all need it so very much.
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A HERETIC I AM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. Thanks very much. I appreciate the compliment.
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133724 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 08:40 PM
Response to Original message
40. Clean Air... Just follow the link.....
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The Witch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #40
54. Those photos took my breath away. Thank you :)
I love this town :)
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trashcanistanista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 09:02 PM
Response to Original message
43. Beautiful post!
A little slice of heaven is what DU is to me. It would be wonderful if there really were such a physical town. You forgot cats, there would be lots of cats and they would be in charge.:-)
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A HERETIC I AM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #43
44. The cats are involved in the shampoo conversation!
it's just that instead of it being just 3 or 4 people, it is 2 or 3 hundred cats!

Thanks for the compliment.
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riona Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-18-07 08:51 AM
Response to Reply #44
85. It's an ongoing soap involving
The machinations of Republicans and cats.
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piedmont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 09:08 PM
Response to Original message
47. nice post. k&r nt
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flying_monkeys Donating Member (519 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 09:11 PM
Response to Original message
50. 103,000 citizens is a bit big for a town....
I guess its before the "incorporated into a city" period :)


Sounds pleasant. But you forgot to add the attacks from Freeperville, the town over the hill that is jealous of the clean air, clean water, general harmony and prosperity here. Seems they are stuck in a small barren patch of ground that even $70K spent every quarter can't seem to manage any improvements ;) Maybe that is due to the Mayor there....


(Good telling of a nice story, Heretic :) )


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Radio_Lady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #50
55. "Let's not quibble, Sybil..."
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flying rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-18-07 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #50
124. They are our Shelbyville
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Lone_Star_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 09:12 PM
Response to Original message
52. What an entertaining and well written post
I throughly enjoyed it. Thank you for taking the time and expending your creative energy for all of us here at DU.
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Radio_Lady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #52
56. K & R -- spend some time on the GREATEST page, Heretic!
It does wonders for your ego.
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A HERETIC I AM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #56
57. Thanks very much, both of you. That's very flattering.
Glad you enjoyed it.

:hi:
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Sapphocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 09:23 PM
Response to Original message
58. No queers in your utopia, eh? n/t
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A HERETIC I AM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #58
60. Sappho, honestly, i worked and reworked that for over an hour and a half ....
Edited on Tue Apr-17-07 09:47 PM by A HERETIC I AM
and every single sentence i came up with that referred to the vital Gay and Lesbian members of DU just simply didn't come out right. I was concerned that no matter what i wrote or how i wrote it, it would upset someone.

For instance i wrote something like this;

"We have a large Gay and Lesbian community"

Well, to me, that sounds like they are on the edge of town, in their own neighborhood.

or;

"Among our citizens are hundreds of people who have alternative sexual predilections and they are valued members of our town"

or;

"Many in our town are Gays and Lesbians and we care for them deeply"


Do you see why i might have struggled here?

I meant no disrespect and i wanted to be as inclusive as i could. The other concern i had was that folks would click on the thread, see an essay and not bother reading it at all. I edited. I am sorry if you felt slighted. It was not my intention.

This proves why i write so little. I often have no problem expressing things with words and sometimes i struggle immensely. I have on my laptop a short story i have written for my own amusement that has sat dormant for 4 years without an ending because i am stuck.

Forgive me.

On edit to add one more thing;

Are Gays defined by their Homosexuality? Or are they indeed proud Artists, Doctors, Truck Drivers, Mothers, Fathers, Bricklayers, CPA's and so on? I am not trying to justify my literary shortcomings, merely attempting to point out that the Gay members of this community are not just Gay, they are people who matter because of who they are as well as what they are.
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Sapphocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #60
61. "Many in our town are Gays and Lesbians and we care for them deeply"
...would have been really, really nice.

But don't sweat it.
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A HERETIC I AM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #61
63. ""Don't sweat it" points out a shortcoming i am not comfortable with.
Again, forgive me my lack of writing skill.
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Decruiter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-18-07 03:51 AM
Response to Reply #60
75. You covered everyone. Why do we have to include what we do sexually?
Edited on Wed Apr-18-07 03:51 AM by Decruiter
I don't care.

I work with people, I enjoy the interaction, I don't care if you are a G, L or H or any something else.

Thanks again Heretic. You have absolutely nothing to apologize for. You wrote a beautiful essay about DU.
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foreigncorrespondent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-18-07 05:46 AM
Response to Reply #75
82. Which happened...
Edited on Wed Apr-18-07 05:54 AM by foreigncorrespondent
You wrote a beautiful essay about DU.

...to exclude a group of people who happen to be members of DU as well.

Sapphocrat was not looking for an apology but rather an explanation as to why his group was excluded. And the reason for that was most likely was because this group isn't counted as it should be. And many of us are getting tired of it.

On edit: And BTW, thank you so much for reducing members of DU who happen to be gay to sex rather than people with your little why do we have to include what we do sexually remark. Being gay isn't a sex act, but rather, is people with feelings and emotions. Or is being straight an actual sex act? Have I missed something here?
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A HERETIC I AM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-18-07 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #82
122. You are wrong in your assumption, i assure you
"Sapphocrat was not looking for an apology but rather an explanation as to why his group was excluded. And the reason for that was most likely was because this group isn't counted as it should be. And many of us are getting tired of it. "

The reason for that had nothing to do with the reason you cite. The reason was, as i alluded to in my response to Sappho's post, a failure on my part to pen an inclusion in such a way as to do you justice and not sound patronizing or condescending or as if i was singling them out for seperation as a group. I promise, i had written about 6 or 8 different sentences, changed their wording around several times and no matter how i typed it, none of them seemed to be correct.

Please don't put motive where there is none. In hindsight, i could have done better. Hell, i found a way to include the vocal gun owners, i surely could have included the Gay community.

Once again, I am sorry i didn't handle that subject well.

Come on over to the pub, I'll buy ya a beer, ok?
:toast:
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foreigncorrespondent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-18-07 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #122
126. I was not talking about your reasons at all.
Edited on Wed Apr-18-07 07:14 PM by foreigncorrespondent
I was actually talking about why Sapphocrat may have had a need to bring it up with you. In other words, what might have been going through her head rather than your reasons.

Next time don't jump the gun ask for clarity if you are unsure of something.

And BTW, had Sapphocrat not said what she said, I would have. I happen to be one of the queer DUers who are tired of receiving the raw end of the deal, and would have asked for that explanation as to why a large group of DUers had been excluded. Did I jump on you for the response you gave to Sapphocrat? Or did I jump on someone who stated something so ridiculous as to elude to being gay as being a sex act rather than people?

On edit: typos galore!
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A HERETIC I AM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-18-07 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #126
128. So the beer is out, eh?
But you DID refer directly to the original post which was, if i am not mistaken, written by me!

You justified Sapphocrat's post by suggesting she was looking for a reason as to why i did not include a mention of the Gay and Lesbian community in my story. I gave what i thought was an honest, heartfelt explanation of my thought process during the penning of the essay. However, you chose to characterize my motive thusly;


"And the reason for that was most likely was because this group isn't counted as it should be. And many of us are getting tired of it."

It is my sincere desire that you understand my mindset and the struggle i went through in trying to author that story in such a way as to make it entertaining, poignant, applicable, timely and appropriate. As perhaps insignificant that struggle was, in the larger scheme of things, it was indeed a struggle nonetheless.

For you to assume i don't consider the Gay and Lesbian members of Democratic Underground "counted" in any way what so ever is evidence that you don't know me very well and apparently assume i am just another in the long line of people who have treated you in a particular fashion. Nothing could be further from the truth.

"Next time don't jump the gun ask for clarity if you are unsure of something."

Trust me, the last thing i want to do regarding this topic is jump the gun. I am looking for a fair hearing and a fair start.

"And BTW, had Sapphocrat not said what she said, I would have. I happen to be one of the queer DU'ers who are tired of receiving the raw end of the deal, and would have asked for that explanation as to why a large group of DU'ers had been excluded."

Again, it was not my intention to exclude ANYONE. There are DU'ers who are dedicated to the concept that Copper makes a better cookware than Stainless Steel or Aluminum. I didn't include a mention of them either. (No, I am not equating cookware preferences to sexuality, i'm just sayin')

"Did I jump on you for the response you gave to Sapphocrat? Or did I jump on someone who stated something so ridiculous as to elude to being gay as being a sex act rather than people?"

Well, the way i read the above, it seemed as if you jumped on both of us. Perhaps Decruiter was not as eloquent as he could have been in his subject line. But that is not the point. The point is, I wrote the piece, i struggled to make it complete and inclusive, i failed in several aspects and owned up to the ones that have been pointed out.

If you can not accept my explanation and apologies then we shall simply have to, as i said in my story, "Just walk away".



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foreigncorrespondent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-18-07 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #128
129. You are grasping at straws!
I am not slamming you for your OP. I am not slamming you for your explanation as to why you left a group of DUers out. I was explaining to ANOTHER posted exactly what may have prompted Sapphocrat to post what she did. And given I was her partner for 7 years, I am pretty damn certain I know her a hell of a lot better than you, or any other DUer come to think of it.

So you may have written the OP but until such time as I respond to IT and not another poster who has basically lowered the LGBT population around the world and on DU by referring to us by what we do in bed rather than as the humans we are.

You are grasping at straws, because if your explanation to Sapphocrat as to why you excluded the LGBT's from your OP wasn't a fair enough response then you bet I would have responded to you about it. But you see, I accepted your reason no question. So quit grasping at straws with me.

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Maven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-18-07 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #75
94. "Why do we have to include what we do sexually?"
"I don't care if you are a G, L or H or any something else."

Says the guy with an army avatar.

:eyes:
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Turbineguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-18-07 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #75
100. There are at least 3
Marine Engineers in addition to the other professions listed. I believe that's higher than the national average. On the other hand, there are probably plenty more on FR.

Very nice essay. Wish I'd written it. I've been feeling like writing something like that for some time.
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Blue_In_AK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-18-07 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #100
109. My husband HullBoss is a retired marine engineer
but he hardly ever posts. His function is to vote for me in the photo polls. :)
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Turbineguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-18-07 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #109
118. Make that at least 4 then!
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-18-07 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #75
127. I believe you need to educate yourself about GBLT people
Sexual orientation isn't about SEX.

God. 2007.
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nebenaube Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-18-07 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #60
96. "This proves why i write so little"
What? you've got to be kidding me. You are a wordsmith!
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-18-07 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #58
99. I noticed that straight people were not identified as a group, either.
As a lesbian, I am sensitive to being "left out" but when nobody's sexual or affectional orientation is mentioned in a narrative, I think it is usually ok to let it go, unless there is the implication that everybody is heterosexual. I saw no intention to leave anybody out in this narrative. I'm a vegetarian and they weren't mentioned either, but neither were meat-eaters. It's impossible to mention *every* group.

I did stand up as a Pagan since several other religious groups were mentioned, but I didn't do so to complain. I think that this essay was meant kindly and very inclusively.

Just my two cents.

:pals:
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SaveAmerica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 09:25 PM
Response to Original message
59. I often wonder about our founders, do they ever stop, hands on their
hips and just look at our town? It must be overwhelming sometimes to think about what they created. Here's to the founders!! :toast: :toast: :toast: and to the citizens who make up our town: :toast: :toast: :toast:

That was beautifully written!!
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tigereye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 09:50 PM
Response to Original message
64. oh, this is wonderful!
thank you so much. It is a great description!
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StrictlyRockers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 09:50 PM
Response to Original message
65. I love you guys.
See you in the metaverse when the tribe gathers for real. We need a ritual.
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orleans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 10:01 PM
Response to Original message
66. k&r very nice/cute idea--i enjoyed reading it. thanks.
also...someone asked if we can locate this in a warm place but...i like cool sweater days too, and snow! we've gotta have some snow (otherwise, we won't be able to snuggle up with good books and cups of hot chocolate and get that cozy feeling while we watch the snowflakes falling! and have snowball fights. and get the urge to say: let's make some soup.)




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Maat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 10:55 PM
Response to Original message
67. It's a great place to live ...
and a great community in which to raise a child!

Thanks for the post - group hug, DUers!

:grouphug:
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 11:08 PM
Response to Original message
68. I love this post! Love it!
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Lugnut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 11:30 PM
Response to Original message
69. This is excellent!
It reminds me of Cicely, Alaska. :toast:
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-18-07 03:40 AM
Response to Reply #69
73. The Liberal Riviera!
LOL
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bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-18-07 12:01 AM
Response to Original message
70. Remarkable.
Thanks!
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NMDemDist2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-18-07 01:03 AM
Response to Original message
71. this truly is my cyber home. thanks for the sweet tour n/t
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Decruiter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-18-07 03:42 AM
Response to Original message
74. What a beautiful piece about DU. Thank you. Been around since
August of 2001. BartCop sent us here.

Thank you again for a really sweet description of DU and the community here.
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Evilismdestroyer07 Donating Member (26 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-18-07 04:09 AM
Response to Reply #74
76. Yea I think I came here from
the old bartcop. Cheers. Have a shot of that wierd tequila he likes.
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JustABozoOnThisBus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-18-07 04:25 AM
Response to Original message
77. Great tour! Just don't whistle when ...
when you walk past the graveyard over on Boot Hill, with its tombstones of the banned.
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-18-07 04:42 AM
Response to Original message
79. you forgot the town has a Magistrate as well
lol
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A HERETIC I AM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-18-07 06:19 AM
Response to Reply #79
83. As well as several College Professors and the worlds greatest library...
(the internet) in which just about every person living in town is a qualified Librarian.
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donheld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-18-07 05:05 AM
Response to Original message
80. Cities our size.
Burbank, CA 104,108

Pueblo, CO 103,495

Pompano Beach, FL 104,179

South Bend, IN 105,262

Lowell, MA 103,111

Erie, PA 102,612

Denton, TX 104,153

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Decruiter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-18-07 05:37 AM
Response to Reply #80
81. You left off Richardson, TX. n/t
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donheld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-18-07 07:18 AM
Response to Reply #81
84. I was too lazy to look them all up
:D
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rosesaylavee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-18-07 08:57 AM
Response to Original message
86. Fun post
I seem to gravitate to the cranky ol farts bench more often than I thought I would...

:hi: to the farts!
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canichelouis Donating Member (357 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-18-07 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
87. There may be 130 K registered inhabitants
But I've always wondered about the number of the 'undocumented'

There must be a hugh number of tourist always walking about.

Perhaps a hugh camp site on the outskirts for visitors.
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A HERETIC I AM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-18-07 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #87
91. I was thinking of including a reference to the "Tourists" we get whenever a big event occurs....
but, like I said above, i had to edit. It is obvious to me that this is a story i could and perhaps should paint as a much larger picture.

Maybe it's time to start a DU journal!
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-18-07 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #87
101. We also have freepers who lurk in the bushes
Because all there houses are belong to us!

:hi:
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byronius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-18-07 10:08 AM
Response to Original message
90. Don't forget the Cemetery. Lot of famous people there. Lot of history.
Make some rubbings of the more famous tombstones. Me, I've got one of TruthIsAll hanging up on my virtual wall.
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deutsey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-18-07 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
93. It's a nice place to visit, but I wouldn't want to live here
:evilgrin:

Seriously, DU has helped to keep me together since Bush stole office. It's helped me to realize I'm not alone and it's an amazing resource for keeping informed.

:thumbsup:
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-18-07 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
97. This was very kind of you. I would like to mention the Pagan community here.
You listed many of our community's various religious groups, and I wanted to mention the Pagan and Wiccan group as well. We are not"non-denominational" and we are certainly not "non-religious." As a Pagan, I am deeply spiritual and believe strongly in God, which I identify as The Goddess/God/One. I know that it is impossible to list every spiritual group, so this is in no way a complaint. I just wanted to stand up and identify myself, along with the other Pagans and Wiccans here.

:hi:
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A HERETIC I AM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-18-07 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #97
102. I know a number of Pagans/Wiccans that attend the UU church here in my area....
but again, i had to edit.

It has been obvious to me for quite a while that DU is a microcosm of the population at large, just as diverse and just as complicated.

I didn't delve into the political spectrum either. There is no doubt we have VERY conservative Democrats as well as probably quite a few very liberal Republicans that post here.

I am glad you enjoyed it.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-18-07 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #102
113. That's true! Our local UU church includes a group of Pagans
I think that you did a great job of describing our wonderful community here at DU.
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ToeBot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-18-07 12:45 PM
Response to Original message
98. And always remember, Good fences make good neighbors! n/t
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-18-07 01:27 PM
Response to Original message
103. I'm completely charmed by this essay.
At first I was all like, "Oh brother", but you made it work. It pretty much feels that way here. Thank you, neighbor! :hi:

K&R.

(We also have a few other practitioners of some unmentioned religions besides the Wiccan mentioned in the replies, Buddhism, Hinduism, I think even a Mormon or two, etc..)

And Pastafarian!
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A HERETIC I AM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-18-07 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #103
107. Thanks. Thanks a lot.
I was worried that many would see this as a bit too trivial to bother reading at all, much less gather so many recommendations.

I am glad i was successful in creating a picture you enjoyed.

Regarding the Religions, well, if you stroll over to "Religion and Theology Avenue, the conversations are often large, loud and go on for sometimes weeks! How does one possibly include every one of those points of view?
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KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-18-07 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
105. We actually just crossed over 103,000
so what can we get now? A Class A minor league team? An ECHL or equivalent hockey team? A small airport with 50-seater regionals? There are already quite a few good altie radio stations.

I mean, who wouldn't want to come to DUville? For such a small place, we've got a terrific DUniversity, featuring renowned lecturers such as William Rivers Pitt. There's an active GLBT community ("vibrant" is such a cliche). Every kind of ethnic food imaginable is scarfed down daily along Lounge St. Best of all, nearly everyone has cats!

Of course, things could always be better. DUTY (DUville Transit for You) service can be a bit slow at peak hours (the weird thing is, no one knows quite when these will be; DUville is anything but a 9-to-5 kind of town!), plus you have to change buses to get out to that new "Group Homes" subdivision. And let me tell you, GD Plaza can get quite noisy at times! If I had kids, I'm not sure I'd want to take 'em down there...

Oh, and one more thing: Go Skinners! Beat FReeperville!!!
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LiberalEsto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-18-07 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
106. Don't forget the Pagans
We are religious too!
Nice post.
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jjanpundt Donating Member (284 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-18-07 01:46 PM
Response to Original message
108. What a great way to explain this place!
I've been hear for a few years (mostly lurking) and have tried describing the place to others, but you've explained it perfectly! If such a town REALLY existed I'd move there in a heartbeat!
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WatchWhatISay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-18-07 02:29 PM
Response to Original message
110. My Refuge from RightWingInsanity
I love you all.
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-18-07 02:34 PM
Response to Original message
111. Bookmarked to read on those days when I feel like DU has lost any sense of direction
or purpose...like those days last November when people spoke against Impeachment.

Also, I hate to quibble, but you did leave out our unity toward the knuckledragging enemy freepers and that the DU dungeon is a place where the truth is whispered instead of being shouted to the world.

Anywho....I'll still give it two thumbs up. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
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Akoto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-18-07 02:38 PM
Response to Original message
112. Can I open an Olive Garden franchise in town?
:hide:
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A HERETIC I AM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-18-07 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #112
115. LOL! Yes, but it has to be called "Luigi's" and serve proper, real brick oven pizza
if you do that, the zoning laws might just let you open downtown. Otherwise, it's off to the mall with you and your franchising ways!
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KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-18-07 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #112
116. Sure!
It's your money. Someone will be sure to help you out after you go broke. This is DUville, after all!

Then someone can take over the empty shell and turn it into a Creole/Cajun place with live music!
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Capn Sunshine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-18-07 02:50 PM
Response to Original message
117. OK, but someone needs to clean up that "Lounge"
The walls in the alley there are filled with loony graffitti. In the parking lot behind, people are passed out or having sex in their cars, wild goings on until all hours, and if you go in there at the wrong time, no one will talk to you. But the bartenders are cool, and will tolerate your uptightedness in a raffish way.

OK, maybe just a quick hosing down to clean the monkey feces off the walls.
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A HERETIC I AM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-18-07 04:21 PM
Response to Original message
119. WOW! Thanks, everybody.
74 votes for Greatest Page!

I am very, very flattered that so many of you thought this was worthy of being voted on, much less voting it onto the front page of the website.

I am very pleased so many of you enjoyed my story.

Thanks DU!:toast: :hi: :loveya: :grouphug:

(now we need a smily that says "Enough with the goddamned smilys already!)
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BadAssTeddyBear Donating Member (35 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-18-07 04:29 PM
Response to Original message
120. Glad I've moved here.
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tanyev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-18-07 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #120
123. We're glad you did, too.
Welcome! :hi:
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GenDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-18-07 04:34 PM
Response to Original message
121. I love this place
I wouldn't want to live anywhere else.

Thanks for posting, Heretic! Right about now, we needed a great big warm fuzzy.
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Lilith Velkor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-18-07 06:21 PM
Response to Original message
125. It's dishonest to count dead trolls as citizens
*grumble*
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