Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Mr President, do know how many people lived on ramen noodles to get you elected?

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
thunder rising Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 04:36 PM
Original message
Mr President, do know how many people lived on ramen noodles to get you elected?
How many gave up savings? How many people gave up entertainment?
How many people sensing the collapse of our financial system literally threw you forward like a Hail Mary pass in hopes that you would act in our best interest; you know, the *people* people of the United States?

I'm now unemployed, uninsured, and foreclosed. All of these issues were addressed in your campaign promises. Do you think we as a group of evermore impoverished plain Americans we can preserver as long as the Democratic Asshole Senators can delay? The proof is in: 122 less voters will be available by tomorrow; 4K by the next election.

And I know that in the Democratic political strategist minds they are thinking; you're broke, so you really don't count anymore.

My employment prospects were sent to India and/or simply filled on site with an H1-B. Do you think we could get some relief on that. At least let us know that you're interested in the plight of the plain everyday Americans that sent those small donations?

Do you think the younger voters that were *so* hyped up about your election are still excited? I was once 18-25 yrs old and I can tell you they are seeing the same old politics of getting served scraps justified with more intellectual arguments. Yes, the crowds love to cheer you--you being a charismatic speaker can work a crowd. However, that glow isn't lasting nearly as long as it used to. There is no "force multiplier". Nobody is going out registering voters or calling their friends. The party is in fact in decline and it's your watch.

The time is at hand ... we need you to work for us now.

(Sry folks, I love that President, but I'm getting frustrated)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
msongs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 04:38 PM
Response to Original message
1. he's a millionaire, YOU are not. His friends are from Goldman Sachs. Yours? He has
accomplished some good things in his term. But now that he is an insider and no longer a challenger...well things change don't they?

Msongs
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #1
81. +1
We are chumps until 2012.

Enjoy the ride!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
n2doc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 08:42 AM
Response to Reply #81
167. Sadly, we are chumps forever
Who's going to challenge Obama, a sitting president? Nobody. And the Repubs will nominate some horror show of a candidate, just like they always have. You will have no choice to change things for the better.

The people spoke last year, like they always do- they love them corporatists, or at least they have been taught to.

I don't know what might break the cycle. A complete collapse is just as likely to lead to a totalitarian state as we are quite a ways there already.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Fire1sKid Donating Member (223 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #81
224. He is the president,not the Messiah!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
davidwparker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #1
92. True, this. I saw Moore's new movie tonight and see all the Goldman Sachs
connections in the current administration.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
debbierlus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #92
202. It is disgusting. The fact that Obama can appoint the criminals who created the economic crisis

...to LEAD the 'recovery' is vile.

Obama is a fraud. And, his election took the momentum of real change, diffused it, and allowed the corporations to push through policies that would have caused a rebellion, if a Republican President has instituted them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #202
227. Meanwhile, John Edwards cannot run because of his affair.
That leaves Kucinich. At least Kucinich is honest and has his divorces behind him, hopefully.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Maat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #202
232. Exactly!
I re-registered as a Green shortly after he took office. I no longer believe in the "We can drive the party left" nonsense.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CrispyQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #202
240. This is an excellent article, if you missed it frist time around.
Buying Brand Obama
By Chris Hedges

Barack Obama is a brand. And the Obama brand is designed to make us feel good about our government while corporate overlords loot the Treasury, our elected officials continue to have their palms greased by armies of corporate lobbyists, our corporate media diverts us with gossip and trivia and our imperial wars expand in the Middle East. Brand Obama is about being happy consumers. We are entertained. We feel hopeful. We like our president. We believe he is like us. But like all branded products spun out from the manipulative world of corporate advertising, we are being duped into doing and supporting a lot of things that are not in our interest.

more at link: http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/05/04

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #1
98. Truth.
(even the good things are scraps/crumbs)

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tonysam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #1
107. +100 n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #107
171. +1000. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
joeycola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 08:20 AM
Response to Reply #1
160. well said
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JonQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #1
175. I always laughed at the people who really bought the
"hope and change" rhetoric.

He's a politician, same as any other. He'll care about your worries only to the extent that it will get him reelected. Otherwise he's beholden to his financial donors.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bigwillq Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #175
177. Me too.
My feelings exactly. :thumbsup:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
earthlite Donating Member (75 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 04:39 PM
Response to Original message
2. Well said. Mirrors my feelings pretty close.
nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
emsimon33 Donating Member (904 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 01:01 AM
Response to Reply #2
141. Me, too
What will they do if we just stay home in 2010...or in VA and NJ...this November? Get rid of Rahm and start working for the people and not the lobbyists.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 04:40 PM
Response to Original message
3. I am heartened by Biden
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #3
50. What about Biden? NT
NT
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #50
260. Read this week's Newsweek story (yeah, I know, newsweak...)
Apparently the man has been a big part of the "conscience" of this White House...

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
4. Can I get in here and take my crap on him, too?
Edited on Sat Oct-17-09 05:03 PM by cliffordu
Oh, yeah. he's a SELF MADE millionaire, so if you're going to give the last 20 years of blame to him, at least get your fucking facts straight.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
stlsaxman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #4
106. Yeah- he made his millions exploiting all those helpless poor unfortunate
Edited on Sat Oct-17-09 10:03 PM by stlsaxman
people who read books! and HOW DARE HE NOT hire a ghost writer!?! Guess he wanted all the profits for himself and his family...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 12:06 AM
Response to Reply #106
127. That's right, he is a selfish bastard
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tansy_Gold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
5. +1 -- You and folks like you are the reason why so many of us
were and are frustrated.

Since 11/25/08, when I first voiced my "concerns" about the Geithner appointment and got flamed for it here on DU, I have said that we the people were being ignored, and they the bankers were getting all the attention.

Damn it, thunder rising, I wish to hell this shit hadn't happened to you. I wish to hell it hadn't gone this way for you and so many more like you. It sucks. It just plain sucks.

Hang in there. I can't promise it'll get better, nor can I promise it won't get any worse, but hangin' on is about all we can do any more.

:thumbsup: and :hug:



Tansy Gold
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #5
176. Hangin' In Is Getting Very Hard To Do! If Things Keep Going Down Hill
Obama owns it! Many don't like to hear this, many keep saying he inherited ALL this and that may be true... but for me, I'm seeing some "selling out" going on! I DON'T LIKE IT and if people like Reid & Baucus and the Blue Dogs aren't reigned in... then WHAT'S THE USE???

Some people just need to be taken to the WOOD SHED and given a stern talking to!! Just how I'm seeing it! I posted something about Goldman Sachs the other day and several of the replies just blew me off because of my concern.

THIS isn't moving the ball forward for the America people, when this administration has so many of these people working on OUR behalf!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 04:43 PM
Response to Original message
6. Meet the new boss
The same as the old boss
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OhioChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. Bingo. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SemiCharmedQuark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #6
14. Yes. George W. Bush and Barack Obama are the same.
Exactly. Thank you.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
liquid diamond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #14
54. This place has gone to shit.
We get a democrat for president and people here still bitch like Bush was still in office. Some people will never ever be satisfied. It must suck for you people to constantly live under a dark cloud.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SemiCharmedQuark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #54
63. Well, I was striking a blow for sarcasm, actually.
As evidenced down below.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
liquid diamond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #63
95. I know you were being sarcastic.
I was just calling out the assholes here.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
salguine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #54
113. If we did get a Democrat, how would we tell?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NoUsername Donating Member (265 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #113
119. That's easy.
By the (D) behind the name.

If Obama had an (R) behind his name, he would be absolutely lambasted for everything he's doing. But he has a (D) behind his name so it's A-OK.

You obviously need to get with the program.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #119
200. +1 nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 03:22 AM
Response to Reply #54
155. an officeholder with a (D) is the height of your ambitions? really?
Edited on Sun Oct-18-09 03:22 AM by Hannah Bell
then these are glory days for you, i guess.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #14
72. You attempt at sarcasim failed. Besides to the millions out of work, hungry, living in cars or tent
they dont notice the difference. You live in comfort i assume. you speak like it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SemiCharmedQuark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #72
79. So does everyone here who has internet access and time to waste posting thoughts on a forum.
Edited on Sat Oct-17-09 08:22 PM by SemiCharmedQuark
I do live in comfort. I recognize that. It's not the insult that you think it is.

Also, you don't speak for the all of the homeless or all of the poor. I work a soup kitchen in Chicago and the vast majority people there are not nearly as angry at Obama as some of the people here on DU.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #79
90. enough comfort to realize that there are millions of people who use library computers or those in
college campuses, who otherwise would not be able to get online to post thoughts.

People can be upset with President Obama, and still support him enough to call him Mr. President.

Merely for the sentiment of the OP I rec it. The fact is very true, thousands of people gave up all they had to help get Senator Obama elected president. He should be reminded of that when anyone who did such sees him, and I would expect him to say thank you, because he's a good guy.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SemiCharmedQuark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #90
121. I like the OP. I rec'd the OP and I agree with your sentiment.
I dislike hysterical rants saying that Obama is the same as Bush. Not posts saying that he is the same as Bush on a specific issue (because on some issues, yes, he has kept Bush policies and he should be hammered for doing so) , but outright saying that he is the same as Bush period. I see people who have absolutely nothing. They line up an hour in advance to get a hot meal once a week. They don't get to go to college. They are kicked out of the libraries at night. And if THOSE people are joyful that Obama is president and that he is not Bush(and some of them are downright joyful) then why can't people who live in comfort accept the simple fact that Obama is not Bush?

This doesn't stop criticism of Obama or his policies. I don't know why this is so difficult for people to admit.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #79
120. I did not intend insult. I simply wish to emphsise that millions have not seen enough change to feed
themselves or their children.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #72
105. we have quite few houseless people here. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #14
86. In the case of Bush, simply maintaining a third of his policies is toxic.
You don't have to match him exactly.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #14
124. I guess it's close enough to Halloween to drag out the straw men. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SemiCharmedQuark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 12:45 AM
Response to Reply #124
137. Ok. Please explain what the phrase "Meet the Old Boss Same as the New Boss" means.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-19-09 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #137
274. Why did Obama say make me do it?
I'd wager, no one here thinks Bush and Obama are the same. I think you may be taking an argument to an extreme. That is why I wrote what I did.

I will borrow an argument even though it is somewhat inflammatory.

"The fundamental truth about the Obama administration is that it is the Bush administration run by slightly less incompetent, marginally less evil people:

* The Iraq occupation will end when Bush wanted it to.
* The Bush administration's campaign of eradication of fundamental civil liberties, including the gutting of the 4th amendment and holding people without trial, continues.
* The Afghan war continues, and is even being escalated.
* The signature issue of "health care reform" is a scheme which will force citizens to buy private insurance which, because of lack of effective controls, will increase in price faster than wages or inflation.
* Obama and Geithner have followed the Bush/Paulson financial policies, virtually to the letter, spending trillions bailing out Wall Street and creating a financial sector which has fewer, larger actors with more political power than before.
* Obama continues to exert pressure primarily on Progressives rather than on Blue Dogs in order to obtain relatively more conservative rather than liberal bills. (This is not an accident.) The most liberal bill always comes from the House, the conference committee bill is inevitably closer to the more conservative Senate bill. (This is not an accident.)
* Unlike Bush Jr, Bush Sr., Clinton, and Reagan, Obama has not replaced the prior administration's district attorneys wholesale, instead leaving in place the majority of the Bush administration DA's who had survived Rove's purges intended to make sure they were loyal Republican apparatchiks.
* Obama has not cleaned out the administration in general of Bush-era appointees and plants; indeed he has filled less spots than either Clinton or Bush II had by this point in their termsand no, it's not because the Senate won't confirm them.
* Obama appointees will be forced to resign if the right wing (aka Beck) goes after them hard, but if progressives don't like them, tough luck.
* Obama's economic team is filled with people who created the framework which allowed the financial meltdown to occur, who didn't see it coming, and whose solution to it is to give money to their friends and colleagues and try and get another bubble started."

http://openleft.com/diary/15113/meet-the-new-boss

I don't entirely agree because of all the positive the President has done but he has also done some bad things. I am not saying throw the bum out. I am saying we need to get active and push back.

So, yeah, I stand by my earlier statement.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 04:43 PM
Response to Original message
7. So you don't think things would be WORSE under McCain/Palin? n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Other than a few issues
The world would pretty much look the same as it does right now.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SemiCharmedQuark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. Oh brother...
Edited on Sat Oct-17-09 04:52 PM by SemiCharmedQuark
:eyes:

If you think that Obama and McCain would be "about the same" you're beyond reason. This is not to say that Obama doesn't need to improve on certain areas or even that Obama isn't merely the lesser of two evils. But my god, Obama is the FAR lesser of two evils.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 05:00 PM
Original message
+1 n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
conscious evolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #13
29. Evil is still evil
whether or not the evil is turned up to elevenses.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cynatnite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #8
19. So, McCain would have done the same stuff as Obama? Wow!
McCain would be drawing down troops in Iraq, ordered the closing of Gitmo, changed procedures to the FOIA, reversed Bush's ban on funding to foreign organizations that allow abortions, signed into law easing the federal requirements for filing employment discrimination and signed a law that increased the number of children covered uner SCHIP (which he voted against in the senate, IRRC). McCain would have reversed Bush's policy to use tax dollars for stem cell research, too.

Oh, and McCain would have nominated Sonya Sotomayer, too. And let us not forget that the rest of the world would have LOVED McCain almost as much as they hated Bush.

To top it off, McCain would have taken on health care reform, too.

Wow, I obviously voted for the wrong guy.

:sarcasm:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SemiCharmedQuark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Yes! Apparently McCain's votes in Congress (say against the anti-rape bill) were just for giggles
And he would be doing about the same things as Obama now.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. I don't see what you are referring to has anything to do with economics
and that is what the OP is referring to.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SemiCharmedQuark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. The U.S. has ONE president. There's not a President of the Economy and President of the Environment
Edited on Sat Oct-17-09 05:08 PM by SemiCharmedQuark
a President of Domestic Affairs, A president of Foreign Affairs, etc. etc. etc.

We get one person.

So you cannot say that Obama is the same as Bush or about the same as McCain and expect people to think you are only talking about economic affairs. The quality of a president incorporates all aspects of said presidency.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. Everything starts with economics
and I see the past 30 years of nonsense is preached and embraced by this administration. Although, at a slightly less shrill tone.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SemiCharmedQuark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. Do you consider Jimmy Carter a good president?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. On somethings yes on other things no
Edited on Sat Oct-17-09 05:15 PM by AllentownJake
I'll agree this administrations approach to the empire, is much better than the last administration's.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SemiCharmedQuark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. So Carter, who presided over a terrible economy, gets his presidency judged on his entire effort
instead of just the economy.

And Obama is the same as Bush because all things start with economics.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. The world isn't black and white
Edited on Sat Oct-17-09 05:21 PM by AllentownJake
Carter did some good things (efforts in world peace, trying to be honest with Americans about the economic situation, etc). Barack Obama is doing some good things as well. However, on the big issues which will determine the fate of our nation 10 years out he has a very spotty record. On those issues, I see us going in a similar trajectory that we were going before albeit at a slower pace. I hope I'm wrong.

Time will only tell.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SemiCharmedQuark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. That is a much different sentiment than "Meet the New Boss Same as the Old boss"
or
"He's about the same as McCain would have been"
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. On my key issues he is
However, those are just my key issues. The country isn't really ready to talk about those issues yet.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SemiCharmedQuark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #33
37. Let me clarify. I don't mind people who say "I don't like the way he's handling X, Y or Z"
There are several issues of my own that fit there. I absolutely cannot stand people who say he's the same as the old boss or he's no better than McCain. That's just foolishness.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AusDem Donating Member (219 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #37
102. +1
thanks for some level headedness
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Starbucks Anarchist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 01:07 AM
Response to Reply #37
142. Exactly.
Saying he's like Bush or McCain is a prize-winning sort of idiocy.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 03:26 AM
Response to Reply #33
157. this economy is worse than carter's.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #30
129. Too much of a micromanager. However, he's hands down the best ex-president--
--our country has ever known, with the possible exception of Adams, who went back and served in the House of Representatives.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 08:15 PM
Response to Reply #28
76. Economic Justice....
...IS the BIGGEST Social Issue.
And Working Americans are not getting it.(Economic Justice)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
billh58 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #76
94. The worst damage
Edited on Sat Oct-17-09 09:17 PM by billh58
to the economy, and the trend toward "downsizing" jobs, was well underway before Candidate Obama even decided to run for the Oval Office. The current "depression" started to snowball toward the end of 2007, and became a crisis by the middle of 2008 (just over a year ago). After decades of neoconservative deregulation and failure to enforce anti-monopoly laws, the American economy turned to shit, and took most of the world with it.

I seriously doubt that anyone, or any team of crackerjack economists, could have made much more progress at a recovery by this point than has President Obama and his administration. We have not completed the first part of any triage procedure: stopping the bleeding. Phase II will mainly consist of creating more jobs, and dealing with the millions of foreclosures that are still to come. Phase III will be tied to reinforcing the Dollar, and dealing with the permanent level of higher energy costs.

A single term will most likely not be enough time to complete Phase II, and two terms may not be enough time to even begin Phase III.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #94
178. Actually, the worst damage was done during the '90s.....
Bush just happened to be riding the deregulation/FreeMarkets horse when it collapsed.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ruby the Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #178
187. +1 NAFTA and the repeal of Glass-Steagall are at the root of this.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
billh58 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #187
223. Too true,
Edited on Sun Oct-18-09 02:52 PM by billh58
but the erosion of Glass-Steagall began under Ronny Raygun's "trickle-down" madness in the 1980s, and by the time Slick Willy got his hands on it, it was already toothless:

http://news.briefing.com/GeneralContent/Investor/Active...

Deregulation began with the Kristol/Raygun/Gingrich neoconservative movement (they fired Volker for not supporting deregulation), and the Bush/Rove/Gingrich/Delay neoconservatives showed their reverence to Raygun by continuing the policy at every opportunity. They have controlled the Congress, the Oval Office, or both, for the better part of the past three decades, and deregulation along with obscene tax cuts for the top 1% in this country, have been their stock-in-trade.

I also recognize that Bill Clinton's "triangulation," and the advent of the neoconservative wing of the Democratic Party, the DLC, was part and parcel of this treasonous movement to destroy the Labor Movement and the Middle Class in the USA.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ruby the Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #223
251. Thanks for that addition. I was not aware.
:hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
billh58 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #251
257. This quote by
Nobel laureate Joseph Stiglitz (economist) sums it up nicely:

"Paul Volcker, the previous Fed Chairman known for keeping inflation under control, was fired because the Reagan administration didn't believe he was an adequate de-regulator. Our country has thus suffered from the consequences of choosing as regulator-in-chief of the economy someone who didn't believe in regulation."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Volcker

:hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ruby the Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #257
258. It just gets better, doesn't it.
*sigh*
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
thunder rising Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #19
24. The choice was not about McSame ... there was a primary as well.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #8
21. The members of the Nobel committee and millions of others around the world
disagree with you. The neo-cons were/are a true threat.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cherokeeprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #21
42. When you say "Nobel committee", you need to qualify it by saying
THE FIVE MEMBERS OF THE NOBEL COMMITTEE.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SemiCharmedQuark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #42
44. Are there more than five members of the Nobel Committee now? Is there another Nobel Committee?
Edited on Sat Oct-17-09 05:35 PM by SemiCharmedQuark
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #42
52. Why? The decision was unanimous. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cherokeeprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #21
46. When you say "The members of the Nobel committee... disagree with you", you make it sound
Edited on Sat Oct-17-09 05:37 PM by cherokeeprogressive
as if they're a large body, and not just five white guys from Norwegia, apointed by the Norwegian Parliament and closely matching its political and ideological makeup.

And yes, I know it's Norway.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SemiCharmedQuark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #46
49. They are called "the Nobel Committee". That is the proper term.
If people do not know anything about Nobel Prizes, then I suppose they may think it's a large governing body or maybe even citizens of a country called Nobel. But the poster obviously assumed that people were semi-educated.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
n2doc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 08:43 AM
Response to Reply #21
168. One word: Kissinger n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #8
51. Yep. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #8
128. Not true. Obama has done quite a few good things. However--
--right now we need BOLD things on health care, financial regulation and climate change, and we aren't getting them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
skyounkin Donating Member (722 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 02:27 AM
Response to Reply #8
148. You are out of your fucking mind.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
frog92969 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. *yawn*
Did you say something?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #7
16. Presumably things would also be worse under Pol Pot,
but that sets the bar awfully low, don't you think?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #16
71. It would only be worse for the intellectuals and professionals. Killing fields and all.
But for the millions out of work, hungry, and foreclosed, cant get much worse.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #7
27. Irrelevant. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cherokeeprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #7
40. Who are McCain and Palin?
There's a vague memory of having heard their names before, but I don't think I can place them.

This argument is so old that it needs the dust blown off of it every time people like you trot it out.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #40
45. Freepers ate lots and lots of pop tarts trying to get McCain/Palin elected
And ever since they have been buying teabags like crazy to de-rail Obama's Marxist Plan To Destroy America.

How could you forget?

Besides, McCain is on TV every day, and Palin has a 400 page autobiography that is "#1 at AMAZON!!!!!!"

How can we forget them when they won't go away?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #7
70. With respect pnwmom, for a lot of people it couldnt get much worse. I see it every day.
People, children living in cars and tents. Ask them if it would be worse under McPalin.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #7
73. *Sigh* I love you pnwmom, but I'm so tired of this "argument"
one doesn't have to back the opposition to be disappointed in who we elected. No, of course McCain/ Palin wouldn't be BETTER, but for so many of us NOTHING is GETTING BETTER right now. Keeping the status quo isn't helping. We need real change and immediate action.We need what we voted for. Lives depend on it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #7
82. Gee, at least he's not Lyndon LaRouche!
Edited on Sat Oct-17-09 08:59 PM by MannyGoldstein
The "he could suck worse" argument isn't a great one.

Look, Obama made promise he chooses not to keep.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #7
111. Let's see - PONY! ONLY BEEN X MONTHS! CHESS!
(Help me here - what did I miss?)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 12:29 AM
Response to Reply #111
134. You forgot the especially tired one about 589,998,356-dimensional chess.
Edited on Sun Oct-18-09 12:46 AM by QC
Oh, also the one about turning around a really, really, really big ship.

And you neglected to accuse anyone of poutrage.

I think that about covers it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 12:55 AM
Response to Reply #134
138. Dammit, you left out PONY!!
That's my favorite.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 01:24 AM
Response to Reply #138
145. Jeez, how could I have forgotten that one?
Does anything say kool kiddie quite like comparing basic human rights to a bratty child's demand for an impossible Christmas present?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #134
173. +1
:evilgrin: :thumbsup:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-19-09 06:04 AM
Response to Reply #134
270. "It's all Bush's fault." Funny how we

did NOT buy that 9/11 was Clinton's fault since it happened nine months into Bush's term. And Clinton did NOT try to blame Mogadishu on Poppy Bush even though it happened right after he took office and Poppy had sent the troops in very late in his term.

Every president inherits problems. Obama made a big deal about all he would do early in his term. What happened to all those promises? So far he's enriched the bankers and is trying to pass a health care bill that would raise premiums and fine people who are uninsured. Those who can't afford insurance damned sure can't afford to pay a fine. Will we have debtors' prisons? Or indentured servitude?

We sure as hell won't have ponies. YES WE CAN. . . DO WITHOUT.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
salguine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #7
114. That stupid canard is really threadbare, too. Take it out behind the barn and shoot it, will you?
Edited on Sat Oct-17-09 11:09 PM by salguine
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
digidigido Donating Member (553 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 03:16 AM
Response to Reply #7
154. That wasn't the point of the OP. The point is, he was elected to give us
"change we could believe in", for "the audacity of hope", and "the fierce urgency of now"
And a lot of us worked our asses off to make that happen, and guess what..... it isn't.
The issue isn't is he better then McCain and Palin would have been, the issue is there
is not a hell of a lot of transparency in his government, the war he spoke out against
is getting more involved, and it's an un-winnable war that is plundering our national treasure.
Rendition is still going on, Gitmo is still open, and in all likelihood will stay open for a
while. There has been no action taken for verified voting, Glass Steagal has not been put
back into place, the banks are still too big to fail, and are not lending money. So tell
me my good friend, isn't it wonderful that he's going to repeal Don't ask don't tell, wow
change I can believe in, I'm sooooo thrilled I sent him money and had my kids go door to
door in Nevada for him. Talk is cheap, actions speak. If you're going to inspire and lead
then you damn well better deliver or you're going to raise another generation of cynics
who won't vote
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 03:24 AM
Response to Reply #7
156. worse than 10% unemployment? worse than escalation in afghanistan...


no, i actually don't think it would be worse were mccain in office.

nope, i don't.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
truth2power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #7
189. "It could be worse" is not a sufficient reason to support something. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
timeforpeace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 04:47 PM
Response to Original message
9. On a positive note, in New Orleans he said he's just getting started. Keep hope alive!
Edited on Sat Oct-17-09 04:47 PM by timeforpeace
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 04:49 PM
Response to Original message
12. I am beginning to think that for the next four years all they are doing is shilling
for votes. and going to the wrong side looking for them.
the DC beltway crowd is out of touch.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SemiCharmedQuark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 04:54 PM
Response to Original message
15. This is a really heartfelt post. Thanks for sharing it with us.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
frog92969 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 04:55 PM
Response to Original message
17. It seems to be a trend
We can't get a Dem in the White House AND expect them to uphold
core Democratic principles.

It has alot to do with that "electable" meme we always swallow
hook line and stinker.

My imaginary dog could have beat McSame.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
timeforpeace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #17
57. Correct. Even the repukes knew a Dem would be elected after Bush. Any Dem.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ErinBerin84 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 04:56 PM
Response to Original message
18. good op
with some crappy, tired replies to it. But good op.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 05:02 PM
Response to Original message
22. Increased unemployment, food stamps, ssi, billions in public works
It's not his fault the financial wizards blew up the economy.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
thunder rising Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #22
31. The problem is that he did not recruit us. A nation of followers lost their leader the day after
the election.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #31
48. So you are ignoring "Increased unemployment benefits, food stamps, ssi, billions in public works?"
as sandandsea points out, Obama has done that too to help.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #31
53. What do you want, specifically? I don't get it.
There's all kinds of safety nets for people who can't find work and they've all been increased and extended.

There's new money for local government, schools, highways, construction, etc.

There's more money for college.

There's new money for sustainable energy training.

Between all the various programs, there's around a trillion dollars in money and tax cuts for "the followers".

Does that mean life will instantaneously become utopia? No. Lots of people are suffering because of what was done. Why don't you help keep the laser on those who committed these horrific acts instead of helping the right attack Obama?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AnneD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 02:57 AM
Response to Reply #53
152. What do you want...specifically ......
Edited on Sun Oct-18-09 03:05 AM by AnneD
good question.

I want those who broke out economy punished not rewarded for their activity.
Where is all that tarp money, where did it go to and where is all interest for the back that was promised when we loaned it out.
Where are the indictments of some of these CEO responsible for this theft.
Why haven't we seen some banking legislation to prevent this. A simple thing like reinstating the Stegall Glass amendment.
Fire Geitner, He is a Goldman Sacs mole. Use talent like Elizabeth Warren. Not only does she have a better handle on it -she is an outsider.
Fire Summers-he is an idiot and another pig at the trough and part of the problem.
Our infrastructure is crumbling around us and we have unemployed that can use work.
No more money for TARP (which went for bonuses) for bank. Capitalism should not reward failures.

Get out of foreign entanglements ASAP.
End illegal wire tapping and restore habeas corpus-repeal all laws written by the Bush administration.
Prosecute the criminals of the previous administration and not give them a free pass-it is not revenge, it is called justice.
Get control of your party, you are the leader Tell those reluctant Democrats that you will not support them in their re-election efforts and call them out.
Pass real health care reform. (although why you let Dean go and not use his talent is beyond me),
We gave you a majority, now use it.

Once you appointed Bernanke the economy was yours. Jobs are being shipped out at an alarming rate and people are truly suffering. We worked hard for you and had such high hopes for you. To whom much is given, much is expected. We voted for a real change, not just for the fact that you were not a Republican.. I expect you to be a Democrat, not a Dem-lite. I wanted FDR and all I got was a Hoover. I have a right and a duty to question your policies because I voted for you and you are suppose to be working for me-not the lobbyists.


Rising Thunder,,,,this is for you

www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqgOvzUeiAA&feature=related
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ruby the Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 08:16 AM
Response to Reply #152
158. !!!
:applause:

Well done!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #152
194. !
Well Said!
:patriot:


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #152
205. $4 billion in TARP profit reported
That is after that money was paid back.

Banking regulation is in the works, Geithner is the one who exposed this mess.

We have invested more in the infrastructure than ever, it is the thing that is keeping this from becoming a depression.

As for the rest of your solutions, most of them are in the works. Holder just appointed a prosecutor to investigate torture. We had a terrific health care bill from Kennedy, and the left attacked it too.

You would have been one of those attacking FDR. Most of DU would have been. He wasn't far left enough for the liberals of that time either.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AnneD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-19-09 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #205
273. Tarp money paid back....
Edited on Mon Oct-19-09 09:09 AM by AnneD
Got news for ya......
most of the big banks are still in deep trouble-their books are nothing but a shell game and they can't figure out how to get that bad debt off their books. Four billion in profits after the banks pay it back???? :rofl: You'll have better luck collecting that 4 billion from the tooth fairy!

Geitner exposing the mess. :rofl: Remember the banks started going under during the Bush Admin. Tarp money was voted on by Congress in the waning days of the Bush administration--so it didn't take a rocket scientist to know that there was fiduciary malfeasance going on. I wouldn't give Geitner too much credit. He basically told us what we already knew. What Geitner did do:

http://www.forexhound.com/article/Stocks/Stocks/All_of_...

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2009/04/04/summe... /

I liked most of his cabinet selections but the economic ones made me flinch.

Invest more in infrastructure??? Considering how much has been cut since Reagan-that's a very low bar to set. But I think we need far more and he only asked for shovel ready projects which meant that you have to have reports submitted. Some counties are so small and poor that they can't afford to submit that paperwork (reports and studies can be so expensive). Obama will impress me when he spends the depression Dollar equivalent to our rebuilding program. Or how about a government grant program for internships to hire our newly graduated college students.

We have some good health care bills but unless they have a public option and reign in the Pharmacy and Insurance Industry-it will not be true health care reform (Disclaimer: I am a School Nurse and have lobbied hard and often for CHIPS and other insurance for children).

Yes I would have disagreed with some of FDR's programs-but very few (like packing the SCOTUS). But FDR did more in his first 100 days than Obama has in his. I know Bush left a nastier mess than Hoover ever dreamed of, but just by measuring the economy.....FDR 'got it' and for all his smarts, Obama has been clueless. He has picked the wrong advisers and some of us loyal DEM'S in the field are trying to warn him. There is much seething resentment that does not bode well for DEM's to keep a majority.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 12:32 AM
Response to Reply #22
135. There were financial wizards who wer right in predicting the blow-up
Why didn't he hire some instead of the same old shitstains that caused the problem?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #135
190. Geithner predicted the blow-up
He had been working since the beginning of the default swaps to get banks to be more responsible. He clearly failed and admits he failed. There are few people who understand all the ins and outs of the NY banking system more than he does. No, not even Krugman or Reich. Geithner is the one who exposed it all last year. He's one of the good guys, even though he still trusts these people too much.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-19-09 04:52 AM
Response to Reply #190
269. Right. That's why all his fuckbuddies are from Goldman-Sachs n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 05:06 PM
Response to Original message
25. I know MY life went flaming into the crapper right after McCain lost.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 05:16 PM
Response to Original message
34. K&R
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lamp_shade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 05:17 PM
Response to Original message
35. Oh give me strength !!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 05:28 PM
Response to Original message
41. I'm still angry that FDR didn't solve the Depression by the end of his first term.
And I wasn't even alive then. So as you can imagine, I'm BEYOND livid at Obama.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #41
47. Compare FDR's first 100 days to Obama's, and you will see a very clear difference between the two.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #47
55. They look almost identical
Bank Holiday (which we didn't need), Federal Emergency Relief Administration (we got huge increases in relief), the Civilian Conservation Corps (increase in college and jobs programs), the Reconstruction Finance Corporation (don't know what that is), and the Tennessee Valley Authority (new energy bill and investments). Congress also gave the Federal Trade Commission broad new regulatory powers (some done, others in process), and provided mortgage relief to millions of farmers and homeowners (also done).

No it's not working perfectly, but neither did FDR's policies. My grandmother's family lost everything and never did get it back. Lots of people did. And things aren't even as bad now as they were then.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #55
91. Like a firecracker and a howitzer
Sure, they both go "bang".
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #91
206. There isn't 25% unemployment
90% stock market loss and total bank failure.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
timeforpeace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #47
58. And after 10 months, he wasn't just "getting started".
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #47
88. +1
Not in the same universe.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Scarsdale Vibe Donating Member (228 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 02:52 AM
Response to Reply #47
151. If Obama had come into office in 1932 he might be implementing FDR policies.
But he didn't, he came in to office in the equivalent of 1929, and thank the fucking lord he did. If McCain had been elected we might be looking at a 2012 economy as bad as 1932's was.

The correct policies to implement at the beginning of a depression are necessarily going to be different than those you implement in the middle of a depression.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ruby the Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 08:19 AM
Response to Reply #151
159. So the answer is to emulate Hoover?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Scarsdale Vibe Donating Member (228 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #159
245. In what way is he emulating Hoover? Hoover didn't do any deficit spending.
And Hoover sat idly by as the banking system imploded. Emulating Hoover would have been the preferred course of many on DU as evidenced by their opposition to the bailouts.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
quakerboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #41
89. And he might never have solved it without
Huey long going after his tail
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NoUsername Donating Member (265 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #89
122. Bingo.
FDR did what he did to save capitalism from the threat of socialism.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
VMI Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 05:32 PM
Response to Original message
43. Who is sponsoring the bill? What is the whip count?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 06:08 PM
Response to Original message
56. Millions are frustrated. You are not alone and the question
remains, "WHERE ARE THE JOBS GOING TO COME FROM??"
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
timeforpeace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #56
59. Where the only ones are coming from now, government.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
thunder rising Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #56
60. There are 6M jobs being filled by H1-Bs for which there are well qualified Americans. Start there.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #60
67. But that would be xenophobic!
:sarcasm:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lukasahero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 06:27 PM
Response to Original message
61. I get the distinct impression
that a lot of people who have never been interested in politics in their life, jumped on the Barack Obama bandwagon and now they're upset that someone pissed in their cornflakes when they had no fucking clue what real politics looked like. Time and time and time again, I read one of these 'disillusioned' posts and see that the person joined DU in the last year or so. Where the fuck were you for the last 10 years?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
thunder rising Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #61
64. I'm sorry you feel that way (as I look at my orange beanie with the logo "Iowa Perfect Storm")
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #61
78. I was here.
Edited on Sat Oct-17-09 08:28 PM by bvar22
I'm disappointed, and I didn't even expect much from a Centrist.

I think you have it completely backwards.
The long term Issues Oriented Political Activists with a history of involvement and a historical sense of Policy and Direction are the ones expressing disappointment.

The superficial Parade Followers are still in a Happy Bubble.
They are impossible to engage on a Policy level discussion, even on DU.


"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans. I want us to compete for that great mass of voters that want a party that will stand up for working Americans, family farmers, and people who haven't felt the benefits of the economic upturn."---Paul Wellstone


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lukasahero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #78
101. Well, if you check the details of the OP,
you can understand why I might see it differently. In the last week, every whining post I have read has been made by a poster who joined less than a year ago. YMMV.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
clear eye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 12:56 AM
Response to Reply #101
139. "Critical" post, not "whining" post
unless you are deluded that all criticism is whining, and only relentless cheering is courageous. Gee, Martin Luther King must be an historical whiner in your book. And Elizabeth Cady Stanton. And the early labor organizers of coal mines and sweatshops. I mean all their whining about 60-hour weeks and unsafe conditions.

As for "whiners" critical of a Democratic President, I guess the anti-VietNam war protesters during Johnson's term should really have "manned" up, and gone and killed some nationalistic Vietnamese peasants instead of protesting.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lukasahero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 08:26 AM
Response to Reply #139
161. Bwahahaha
Yeah, the OP here certainly rates in the same category of courage as MLK. And you think I'm deluded?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 01:01 AM
Response to Reply #78
140. +1, and any minute now someone will call those disappointed, or those that expected exactly what we
are getting..one of the following words..

racists, whinners, haters

right out of word book of Frank Luntz's playbook!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #140
185. LOL. You win!
Whiners complaining about whining immediately above you.

Some have NO sense of irony or shame.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pinto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #61
80. We're glad to see renewed interest in national politics and the Democratic Party's role in it all.
One of Obama's accomplishments has been the ability to bring politics back to a broader public discourse, nationally and internationally. That includes people who may have been out of the discourse for a while or uninterested in it all, for whatever reason. :hi:

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
smitty Donating Member (580 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #80
83. Gibberish, spoken like a true ward heeler.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JoeyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 01:48 AM
Response to Reply #61
147. You assume an awful lot.
You are aware people can be involved in politics without being members of this particular website, yeah?
Some of us have been trying to get progressives elected for years.
So where the fuck we were was out donating time instead of bitching at people that don't march in lockstep on a message board.
What about you?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lukasahero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 08:27 AM
Response to Reply #147
163. Doing plenty on the ground as well
Sorry to rain on your parade.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JoeyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #163
170. Good for you
You haven't rained on my parade at all. We've did just as much as you to get democrats elected.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 06:33 PM
Response to Original message
62. You have no name and no value
to the political in crowd.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
thunder rising Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #62
68. Stinky that be *we* in that title. I'm going to start wearing a sportzjacket.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #68
69. It can, indeed, be "we"
In fact, it *should* have been we.

Wutchyoo lookin' at ..... ?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
The Traveler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 06:41 PM
Response to Original message
65. Yer numbers are wrong
It's more like 44K fewer.

44,000 Americans dead each year. Preventable deaths. We're not talking "potential life" ... we're not talking about fertilized embryos in liquid nitrogen (my God, what a wonder it would be if Conservatives struggled so hard for the birthed and breathing). Nope. We're talking about citizens. Kids. Adults. Teenagers and grand mothers. Actual people.

Were some foreign power to achieve such a death toll among the citizenry, there would be no end of bucks delivered up for the righteous purpose of defending our folk from their bloody aggression. Morally, is there a difference, though? What is it called when you allow 44,000 people a year to die so you can line your pockets more deeply with money?

Aye, friend. Frustrated and dismayed. I feel ya. But we cannot surrender, and we must accept that before we succeed, it is likely we and our numbers are going to have to take the streets. A couple of hundred thousand folk bearing 44,000 cardboard caskets down the length of the Mall ought to make the point.

Trav
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
thunder rising Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #65
66. You're right ... typo .. sry.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NoUsername Donating Member (265 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 12:17 AM
Response to Reply #65
131. "What is it called when you allow 44,000 people a year to die so you can
line your pockets more deeply with money?"

That, my friend, is called the American Way.

3000+ killed on 9/11? That's a boondoggle for Halliburton/KBR, and a host of other well-connected companies in the form of a bogus War on Terror. Wall Street/banking industry collapse? That yielded the big players a HUGE payout from the taxpayers. 44,000 dying because they're uninsured, underinsured or denied coverage? No biggie. That just means it's the health insurance companies turn. They have been waiting patiently on the sidelines while KBR and Wall Street fed at the public trough. It's only fair they get their share of taxpayer dollars like everyone else with friends in the WH has. After all, that's how the system works. For them anyway.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #131
179. +1
:applause:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cherchez la Femme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 07:34 PM
Response to Original message
74. Ramen noodle consumption here is way up
:(


And, along with all other things, I'm supposed to be a cheerleader? I'm supposed to defend the same things I protested against under another person/president/regime?
I think not.

He's done some good things just recently, for which I'm grateful and I hope he keeps it up; but in the main it's been too little, far too late especially in health care. As for gay rights, I knew from before the election he'd do little to nothing for us, his late promises to the LBGTQ community notwithstanding... that still didn't stop me from volunteering on his campaign, hoping against hope he'd see the light, at least recognize the need for equal rights.

But what he's seen fit to do is to demean and ostracize what he calls "far left" Democrats, which in his book include all gay people. He hasn't stopped this 'State's Rights' shit... I wonder how he'd feel if states were able to legislate on the legal premise of Loving vs. Virginia?

It's sad, but I can promise I won't vote party line anymore, I'll exclusively support whoever supports me
and nobody else.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 08:14 PM
Response to Original message
75. "are younger voters still excited?" Just for info's sake:
DAILY KOS RESEARCH 2000 WEEKLY POLL OCT 12- 15, 2008

http://www.dailykos.com/weeklypoll/2009/10/15

---

age 18-29

FAVORABLE 79%
UNFAVORABLE 14%
NO OPINION 7%

----
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #75
77. Wait until The Democrats FORCE them to BUY Health Insurance.
"Bye-bye"!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #77
87. Baucus version is the only real punitive bill. There are 5 bills out there. Baucus
bill is going nowhere.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
clear eye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 01:15 AM
Response to Reply #87
143. I wish that were true.
The other two bills--House and Senate HELP committee--have privatized public options in them. The HELP committee bill has an employer mandate for private insurance which can't help the job situation in the U.S. (Sorry union backers. It's a bad idea.)

And H.R.3200 includes an individual mandate for private insurance, as there is no gov't run program included. Look it up.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #143
182. Thats TRUE, though MOST don't know that, even at DU.
The House Democrats keep using the term "government run Public Option" in reference to HR3200, but there is NO provision in The Bill to fund it, or establish a department to administer it, only a provision for the HHS to hire private Corporations to administer the "Public Option".

The "Public Option" has already been "Privatized".

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
clear eye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #182
199. Looks as though ALL the bills are "punitive"
for everyone except the private insurers. Yet they want more gravy.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #199
208. Should employers help pay for health coverage?
Should Walmart have to pay for coverage so their employees don't end up on Medicaid or their kids on SCHIP?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
clear eye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #208
211. The engine that has historically gotten us out of recession has been small business,
but that was before current high premium health insurance. It's not a ruse for fledling small businesses and others hard-hit by the recession to claim they can't afford current private health insurance premiums, much less prices inflated by the mandate--that demanding they do so pushes many into failure.

At this time, we are competing w/ other industrialized countries who finance health care w/o insurance via income taxes including much higher taxes on the top bracket. How much Walmart would contract if forced to buy private insurance for its workers is unknown. In fact if we get the privatized public option being proposed, Walmart's serfs being paid minimum will likely be the first to get taxpayer subsidized overpriced private insurance (and most likely bare minimum policies) from the exchange. Slightly better paid employees of small businesses will in one bill be mandated to buy their own, and in another the struggling small businesses will have to pay.

Your question is a straw dog argument because it is tens of 1000's of other employers who will be hit hardest, and Walmart will suffer the least impact. Ultimately all of us will suffer as the economy continues to contract.

I'm tired of being a Cassandra. Along w/ a minority of others, I called what would happen by passing the bank bailout as proposed, and I'm calling what will happen w/ employer mandates. I wish with all my being I weren't saying this, but mark my words.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #211
212. Small business is exempt and you know it
So why are you misrepresenting the legislation.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
clear eye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #212
216. Depends how you define small business.
And I am doing my best to be accurate.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #216
218. Small mom & pop business, the ones struggling
There are tax benefits for the others.

And on the one hand you say it will strangle business to have to pay for health insurance - but ignore the costs of allowing employees to choose any plan they want and require the business to manage all of that paperwork.

I haven't seen as much inaccuracy since 2003 and we all know how that ended up. When will people learn.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
clear eye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #218
225. What "tax benefits"?
The only "tax benefits" I've heard of are to not be forced to pay into a fund to cover the uninsured. In other words not getting a tax penalty. I've been following this pretty closely, and I've never seen any business tax reduction offered to help offset the cost of premiums. I don't believe any of the three major bills offers that. What is also being considered is additional taxation of either the employer or individual on a portion of the value of better, higher-cost policies. In other words a tax increase.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #225
231. If you don't know that teensy bit of info
Then you've only been following what the left has told you and I mean the wsws socialist left. They lie as much as the right.

This is in the HELP Bill, for starters. They all have help for small business.

Small Business Credits - employers with 50 or fewer full-time workers who pay 60 percent or more of their employees health insurance premiums will be permitted to receive tax credits for subsidizing coverage. Credit amounts are based on the type of employee coverage, the size of the employer, and the proportion of time the employer paid employee health insurance expenses, and are available for up to 3 consecutive years.

http://www.obama-mamas.com/health-care.html
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
clear eye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #231
243. It is a teensy item. "available for up to 3...years"
And businesses employing 90 employees are "big" and not endangered by premium costs? I'm not even sure it's still in the bill as so many former progressive provisions have been compromised away, but I'll try to find out.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #208
221. Should employers help pay for health coverage?
Absolutely NOT.
Health Care should be completely de-coupled from employment, like it is in every other civilized country in the World.
I can NOT understand WHY the Democratic Party INSISTS that the Employer Based Health Insurance system be protected.

"A Uniquely American System"?
Forced LABOR?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #221
229. They do in Canada
Employers pay half of SSI and Medicare.

Why shouldn't they be required to pay at least half of every employees health care benefit?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
billh58 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #208
238. Hawaii's employer-provided health care
coverage system has worked very well for the past 35 years, and the costs are well below the national average:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/17/health/policy/17hawai...

As the article points out, most people in Hawaii wonder what all the fuss is about, and can't imagine not having health care coverage unless they become unemployed (which is becoming more of a problem).
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #238
247. Nice article,
Kyl needs to read it. Apparently health care = healthy people who don't die. Whoda thunk it.

I just don't care how people get the health care, as long as they get it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
quakerboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #77
96. Thats gonna be a kick in the shorts for a few
You cant afford health insurance? Well, our solution is to make you buy health insurance.

Not a good plan, and its going to cause a lot of real pain out in the country, if we follow path of least resistance.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #96
213. When they get a subsidy and can see the doctor
it's going to be called health care, at last.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
clear eye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #213
217. As has been made abundantly clear, only a tiny fraction of current uninsured
will get a subsidy, because lacking price controls it will be ruinously expensive so the authorized expenditure will be rapidly used up. Why are you misrepresenting the "public" (privatized) option?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #217
219. When people get health care
They'll want to keep it. They'll support whatever plan that allows them to keep it, including single payer. You've got to get the people affordable health coverage first.

And isn't the argument for single payer that once everybody is in, the costs will go down? If insurance premiums will be regulated, and both the cost and the payout will be, then why won't that affect costs as well. There are plenty of nonprofit insurance companies, so profit isn't the entire answer. The CBO says a public option would be about 10% cheaper, so aren't the subsidies going to be "ruinously expensive" for that as well?

How am *I* misrepresenting the public option?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
clear eye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #219
222. No, the argument for single payer is different.
Edited on Sun Oct-18-09 02:23 PM by clear eye
It's that once you have only one government entity responsible for paying the providers, without a multiplicity of forms to prove elegibility, and not involved in creating profit, the costs plummet allowing us all to be covered well for the same total cost we pay now for covering only some, with insurers denying needed treatments and procedures. Single payer would also place our businesses on a level playing field w/ the other industrialized nations. The few economists who have studied the likely impact say it would expand the economy.

As for what is misleading in your description of the "public" option: For one, the payout to providers isn't regulated in the bills. They only recommend that providers accept Medicare rates, not mandate it. The premiums don't have caps in either bill. The only regulation seems to be that the plans offer a certain (unspecified) minimum coverage and can't discriminate against pre-existing conditions or high-risk groups. For another, the CBO's estimate assumes that premiums won't inflate in response to instituting mandates, a highly dubious assumption. Also, the bills only allow those slated to get the subsidies to even enter the "exchange(s)". (Whether it's one or more exchange depends on which bill you refer to.)

The President has said over and over that we will only be able to subsidize a small fraction of the uninsured. What would be the benefit in lying about that?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #222
226. Wow, so completely untrue
Quote please, on the subsidy. There are subsidies for people up to 3-400% of poverty, depending on the bill and that'sabout 75% of the country. There is also nothing that says only people with subsidies can enter the exchange.

Yes, there are payout regulations in the bills that require a percentage of premium to go directly to paying providers.

Yes, there are premium caps, a variety of them. The 2:1 and 3:1 age ratio is a cap. Combine that with the premium payout regulation, and the pre-existing condition regulation, and you've tightened down the premium amount quite a bit.

The premise of single payer is removing profit and overhead costs, true. But it also relies on the reduction that preventive care would bring, as well as everyone paying in. Regardless, my point is the same. It is still going to cost money and the same people who can't afford several hundred in premiums now aren't going to be able to afford several hundred in taxes for single payer. Those same people will still need subsidies, a public plan is still going to cost people money. I don't know why people keep pretending it won't.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
clear eye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #226
239. There are tax benefits for some undefined amount for those people, not subsidies.
"Both bills authorize subsidies for the relatively small number of Americans who will be eligible to shop within the exchange. These subsidies will be given to eligible individuals regardless of whether they use the subsidy to buy insurance from the option or from an insurance company." http://pnhp.org/blog/2009/09/13/sullivan-publicoptionin... /

Please read the above cited article, and you will find that the most of what you think are in the bills have been since compromised away. Mr. Sullivan, the highly expert author, also wrote another article pointing out the gaping holes in the CBO's contention that the costs of the proposed public options will be 10% of the average current premium. http://pnhp.org/blog/2009/10/02/kip-sullivan-letter /

Harvard public health researchers have estimated that full single payer coverage for all of us would cost ~$4K for each taxpayer if it were distributed equally regardless of size of family or income. Of course if it were distributed more progressively as most taxes are, people w/ lower incomes would pay less or none, as would people w/ more dependents. And high income people would pay more. And that would be for a ONE TIER PROGRAM, w/ excellent coverage for all and no denials of medically necessitated claims at today's level of technology. The experts do expect that in future some highly expensive hi-tech procedures might be created which would force a choice between raising expenditure or denying certain expensive procedures. Regardless of distribution, do you know of any available private insurane w/o punitive co-pays, exemptions, and a reputation for denial of claims, that costs only $4K/yr for an individual, much less for a family?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #239
242. Sadly, pnhp lies too
I don't even talk to anybody who quotes them anymore. I used to advocate donating money to them. They are so stuck on single payer they don't care what they say or how many people die when nothing passes.

I posted the bills themselves. I posted the facts. Read them or stay ignorant. Your choice.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
clear eye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #242
244. Prove it. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #244
246. I Posted The Legislation
You either believe the legislation itself - or belief the distortion of it. Again, Your Choice. I can't force you to read it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
clear eye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #246
248. Link? Date? n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
clear eye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #226
241. Self-delete.
Edited on Sun Oct-18-09 03:07 PM by clear eye
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
quakerboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #213
253. And when they dont get any subsidy
its going to be called a crock, and its going to turn a whole generation away from the democratic party.

Do you know where the subsidy kicks in for a single male, or young couple with no kids? How about one with 2 kids. With a family of 4, its only 66k, last I heard. In my peer group, I don't know many making that much, and most don't yet have more than one child. Which means we wont be seeing any subsidy, despite the fact we cannot afford what we already owe, much less adding the uncontrolled cost of mandated private health insurance.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 08:57 PM
Response to Original message
84. Maybe you can sell a kidney to someone at Goldman Sachs?
Look at the bright side: They'll be able to pay more for it because of their bailout.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kievan Rus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 08:59 PM
Response to Original message
85. Makes me wish somebody would challenge Obama for the Democratic nomination in 2012
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
quakerboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #85
99. Makes me wish Obama would get out in the front and push
rather than being pushed. We dont need a change in 12. We need the change now, and I still think Obama is the man who can do it. I just think he is listening to the wrong people. He has said he wants a newway, but he is listening to the old politicians.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
salguine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #99
115. But when the "right people" speak up, they're taken away in handcuffs.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FLAprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #115
117. or their planes mysteriously crash
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #99
214. The organizing started in June, did you join? n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
quakerboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #214
250. Which organizing are you talking about?
And how would it help me to send letters and make phone calls to my elected representatives regarding my wishes for the future of my country any more than I already do?

And what does organizing have to do with whether the president will be in the trenches pushing, or sitting back saying "make me"? If we have to organize to "make" him do the peoples will, then my sentiments were exactly on line. I wish he was pushing, not waiting to be pushed.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
change_notfinetuning Donating Member (750 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 09:10 PM
Response to Original message
93. I am just shocked! Simply shocked! n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HipChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 09:15 PM
Response to Original message
97. All those people complaining deserve McCain/Palin...
Exactly how long do they think it takes to undo the last 8yrs..
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #97
133. That "argument" is so weak and stupid in so many ways. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #97
180. .
:eyes:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
quakerboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #97
255. We've got 30 years to undo
Unfortunately, its not a matter of how long it will take. The more immediate question is how long do we have?

Imagine being scuba diving. Now imagine that you are running out of oxygen in your tank. You have a choice. Hurry up and face the bends, or go up the proscribed way and die of lack of oxygen. One sucks and may kill you. The other will kill you. That seems to be where we are. Take your pick.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 09:17 PM
Response to Original message
100. what flavor of ramen noodles did most people live on????
nwmhtt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ruby the Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 08:28 AM
Response to Reply #100
164. I prefer the chicken
YMMV
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
quakerboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #164
256. beef is the only decent one
Chicken is for cup o noodle, when you get swanky and rich and can afford that luxury
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
davidwparker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 09:28 PM
Response to Original message
103. My plan: To look at Obama's campaign promises versus accomplishments.
If I don't see change, then I will vote for the (R) myself just to make it harder for him to get elected again.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ipaint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 09:29 PM
Response to Original message
104. He needs to stop actively covering up evidence of the previous administration's
Edited on Sat Oct-17-09 09:31 PM by ipaint
crimes and torture. Either that or he is going to be considered complicit. That rule of law he touts needs to be applied to the criminals at the top of the food chain.

"Throughout 2009, Mohamed's lawyers, as well as various international newspapers, repeatedly petitioned the British High Court to re-visit its decision on the ground that the Obama administration had replaced the Bush administration, and surely the anti-torture Obama would never embrace or maintain the same threat. But, obviously in conjunction with British officials, the Obama administration took numerous steps to convey to the British High Court that they were indeed re-iterating the same Bush threats, including:


http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald /
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
existentialist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 10:29 PM
Response to Original message
108. Ramen noodles
OK, I've never lived on just Ramen noodles. But I have eaten a lot of them, and if you throw away the "flavor packets" and supplement with onions they are not that godawful. Well, they are certainly better than the "bullion zip" of Orwellian fame.

OK, I was a judge in 2008, and therefore precluded from making political contributions--but back in 2004 and 2006 I gave in excess of 10% of my net worth to Democrats.

OK, you have a good point, and, indeed, I believe that President Obama, while a vast improvement is a bit out of touch with the the real financial conditions of most of his supporters.

Still, I think that most of those supporters--as with most of the population generally is out of touch with financial reality.
And I think the complaint about the supposed awfulness of Ramen noodles illustrates the point. I've eaten them. I have at times lived 90% off rice, potatoes, Ramen noodles, and vegetables from my own garden--and it was healthier than a lot of the crap I eat now.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
donheld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 10:29 PM
Response to Original message
109. Me too
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 10:45 PM
Response to Original message
110. Why are you sorry? It's true - he care less about little people than Wall Street Billionaires.
No need to apologize for stating the honest truth.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #110
181. +1
:thumbsup:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OnyxCollie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 10:52 PM
Response to Original message
112. Barack's a better quarterback than McCain would have been.
But in the end it doesn't matter. Both would be playing for the same team owner.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 11:15 PM
Response to Original message
116. Geez, it's all about you, isn't it?
No one else really matters.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #116
220. -1
Way to show everyone here that you don't get it. My guess is you never will. You're probably rich, too. And you probably have a full set of teeth which are perfectly aligned, white and bright. And you're just waiting for the right time to switch over to the dark side. Please do it now. Your parsimonious attitude is not welcome here.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 11:29 PM
Response to Original message
118. K & R. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Patriot 76 Donating Member (95 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 11:59 PM
Response to Original message
123. Please explain " The party is in fact in decline".
Do you mean the Democratic Party, who has handed those republican fucks their asses the last two elections is in decline?

I'm sorry the President hasn't the ended the wars, fixed the economy, revamped health care, eliminated poverty, ended discrimination based on sex, race or orientation and made the House and Senate Democrats act and vote like Democrats.












Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
thunder rising Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 12:20 AM
Response to Reply #123
132. The approval numbers have been steadily declining. Some say independents. I think 18-25s saying WTF?
To an 18 yr old 12 months, where in effect we will be shortly with the holidays, is a long time.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 12:05 AM
Response to Original message
125. I learned long ago never to make that sort of monetary, time or emotional investment in a politician
99 times out of 100 you will be severely disappointed.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
grahamhgreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 12:05 AM
Response to Original message
126. Well he's better than Bush or MaCain or Palin or Hitler or Stalin or Kim Jong Il! Golly Gee Whiz!

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
thunder rising Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 12:16 AM
Response to Original message
130. I guess I touched a nerve, positiver and negative. I guess this little rant needed to be written.
Thanks for commenting. Good night.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
scentopine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 12:40 AM
Response to Original message
136. Rahm Emanuel believes that "grass roots" doesn't win elections.
You've brought up something I've been worried about - remember the 50 states strategy and grass roots activism? Notice anything missing lately?

Rahm and DLC both are making a huge gamble that good will and corporate sponsorship will allow democrats to coast thru 2010 mid-terms.

He's snuffed the life out of the grass roots movement and is focusing exclusively on a few key states, but mostly he's depending upon corporations for the muscle needed to win next elections.

The rest of us are being told to go to hell. We simply can't compete with United Health or a Fortune 500 billionaire CEO.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
frog92969 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 03:10 AM
Response to Reply #136
153. The DLC using repuke stategy?
That's what they do.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
newtothegame Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 01:18 AM
Response to Original message
144. Who cares. Obama made 'history' last November. That's all that matters. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SemiCharmedQuark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 02:30 AM
Response to Reply #144
149. Why does that bother you so much? You've posted the same comment over and over and over again.
In fact, I don't think I've ever seen you post anything else.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
newtothegame Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-19-09 03:04 AM
Response to Reply #149
268. Because nothing else matters than that we get to tell our kids we voted for the 1st African-American
President. Not healthcare, not the economy, not the environment and not gay rights. Just the awesome pictures of Obama in his sunglasses and sobbing old African-American couples that we posted and delighted over for months last fall when we could have been fighting to defeat Prop 8. Obama made history and owes us nothing after that, and the racist bigots that think otherwise can love it or leave it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Raejeanowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 01:43 AM
Response to Original message
146. He Doesn't Need You Anymore n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nvme Donating Member (486 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 02:37 AM
Response to Original message
150. I have and will support the prez, but I do have concerns
He has my money, my vote, and my time devoted to seeing him elected. I am not happy that the stimulus funds are not being used. Spend the fucking money assholes. I am pissed that the banks are using the lion share on the markets and not using it to lend money. I am pissed that Gays are not being recognized. I am pissed that 23800 people have died without the benefit of having a health care plan in place. I am pissed because the president still uses signing statements to unconstitutionally circumvent the law. I am pissed because over a year has passed since we had our minor blip in the markets and no regulations are in place to keep it from happening again. I am pissed because too big to fail institutions are even bigger. I am pissed because droves of lobbyists are swarming over congress flies on a hot summer turd. I am pissed because every other day I get emails from the prez's fund-raising arm asking for cash to push initiatives that are yet to materialize. I am pissed because DOMA is still on the books. I am pissed because a freshman congressperson from FL has to speak out for health-care and embarrass our party into doing whats right. I am pissed because the country I love is has lost habeas corpus. I am pissed because 1 trillion of our tax dollars has gone into an illegal war. I am pissed because the war in afghanistan is not going to end soon. I am pissed because DADT is still the policy. I am pissed because no one went to jail from the last administration. I am pissed because the CIA can still torture people. I am pissed because SNEAK AND PEAK warrants are being used for drug dealers and not on terrorists. I am pissed because Charter schools can steal money from local schools.
Great my president earned a Nobel prize for peace.
I can no longer accept his stunning speeches unless they are followed up with mind-blowing actions.
I would campaign for him again. I will send money to elect a democratic congressperson for my district. I will support the party.
I do not care to hear about McCain or any other Repug.
We have the majority in the Senate by significant numbers, the house majority, and the presidency. Get to fucking work!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ruby the Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 08:33 AM
Response to Reply #150
166. w00t!!
:applause:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #150
184. Get to fucking work!
:applause: :applause: :applause:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
excess_3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 08:27 AM
Response to Original message
162. SAME . nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AngryAmish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 08:28 AM
Response to Original message
165. You have every right to expect the President to get you a well paying job
Why do you think he is snubbing you?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 09:22 AM
Response to Reply #165
172. LOL.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
placton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 08:50 AM
Response to Original message
169. I simply don't believe a word out of Obama's mouth
anymore. The worst part? We could have had a generation of people politics, until this man threw poison in that well.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HughBeaumont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 09:30 AM
Response to Original message
174. Once again . . . you're mad at the wrong entity.
Obama is a man who genuinely WANTS to do good, but let's face it: he can't.

The reason he CAN'T is because of the old white-man cabal of about 4000 or so powerful individuals/families who run corporate America, who run the military, who run criminal conglomerates, who run hit squads . . . who've been doing this since before this century.

They can assassinate someone, ANYone and get away with it and not lose a second's sleep over it, and why not? There'll be plenty of water-carriers and "logical skeptics" with finger-wags at the ready, stating "Republicans are bad, but they're not assassins. The military has nothing but YOUR BEST INTERESTS in mind. Corporate America is NEVER. THIS. BAD."

PFFFFFFFFFFFFFT. WAKE UP. Your wealthy controlling unspoken arch-conservatives ARE this bad and they've BEEN this bad since the dawn of America. Our founding fathers knew this and feared a day when corporate takeover of our livelihood would happen. Worse yet, they KNEW it would happen. People with rights are not as easily controlled. You open up rights for one group, another will want this and that and the other. And it goes on and on, and they KNOW this. It's about "keeping those ants in line", as an animated movie once said.

The only way to stop unspoken corporate/military rule . . . the only way to GET progressive values is, I'm genuinely sorry to inform you, with violent overthrow of this old white man cabal by hundreds of millions of people, ubiquitously.

Then, you'll see which side the Police, the military, the wanna-be "soliders" (i.e. "yes massah" freepers) and the so-called "teabag" brigade are really on.

The reason this will never happen is because it takes too many people already Super-Glue affixed to televisions and iPods to care. People are too tethered to their jobs - they need health care and income and a job is the only way to get a substantial amount of both. People fear arrest.

It would also result in bloodshed this nation has never seen, worldwide economic collapse, a 20 year recovery period (one RIPE for totalitarianism and a dystopia worse than four decades of Republican presidents would give us) and hope that the people who lead us out of the rubble won't become as over-the-top greedy as this bunch of assholes has.

But short of hyperbole, we can work even harder to expose the actions of the tyrannical powermongers and stop brushing off people who are already working hard at doing this as "loony leftist conspiracy theorists".

Their ideologies aren't dying off. Greed is worse than crystal meth with some people.

Yet, you have to remove them by force. Start making us ashamed as a nation that we still tolerate people getting their rights taken away and that we still tolerate our citizen's hard work being dismissed as a "hobby" which they shouldn't be compensated any better than a common prisoner or third-world slave for.

Otherwise, get used to the "same" president . . .. over and over and over again.

Get used to listening to the "JUST LIKE GEORGE W BUSH LITE!!" people. That never really made any sense to me: "Obama's just like a warmongering fascist bastard with an evil vice president all because everything I want and need isn't happening in 10 months."

And trust me on this - if Old Man River and that Alaskan Queen Nutjob got elected, in 2010 you WOULD see Great Depression II: Bigger, Longer and Uncut for real. 3 years without any job prospects. Tent cities EVERYwhere. Days-long hunger for millions. Dystopia. McCain would have taken the misstep of trying to employ conservative solutions to conservative screw-ups, and we all know what happened when Hoover tried that. We're merely backing away from the brink of catastrophe. The continuing firing of workers still belies that. Corporate chicanery still belies that. But tax cuts will be rolled back. We have a sensible leader at the helm. And I'm quite positive corporations deep . .. WAY WAY deep down in their souls aren't jazzed at the prospect of a Great Depression Part II, because not only would that eliminate some businesses, but they'd also be hunted by the desperate on the brink.

Obama's not a bad man. He's a hostage to corporate interests. Just like EVERY president.

Corporate influence is simply too huge. Too powerful. He bought into the Chi-school of economics because that's what ALL economic students are buying into. They're not TAUGHT anything else. He bought into the idea of government being a fair and benevolent useful entity and not a tool of corporate bastardry under the influence of rights-suppressing whackjobs with bibles. It kind of does give credence to those who say "well if that's the case, then this country isn't WORTH saving".

"It's not speed, it's the direction".

Your problem, once again, is not with Obama. It's with the GAME. Obama has to play it. We ALL have to play it. Don't believe me? Stop going to your job and see how long you survive. This ain't Sweden you live in, brother.

Do something about the GAME. Expose these corporate bastards and start making them targets. Expose what they do.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #174
195. Obama is a "hostage"?
It appears to me that he is a willing co-conspirator.

The DLC New Team
Progressives Need Not Apply
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HughBeaumont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #195
259. I want to believe he is.
If he isn't and is just another Clinton, then this nation either isn't worth saving or we should just collectively gut up, head to the tanks and save it ourselves.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WillieW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 09:48 AM
Response to Original message
183.  I am frustrated also.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 09:54 AM
Response to Original message
186. Sorry but I'm pleased pink with my President
The man has only begun and so many are already throwing him under the bus. Fuck that, I know it took a long time to get here and it'll take a long time straightening things out. By buying in that he isn't doing enough fast enough only makes his job even harder.

The younger voters I know are seeing the problem as it really is, the do nothing knuckledraging repukes, not the President. When I read someone on here say like what is someone else feeling tells me more about how they themselves feel rather that the straw men they want me to think about feel.

The problem here is all :puke: induced
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ruby the Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #186
188. It is a good thing that the banking regulations went into play so soon
so that we could stop Wall Street from focusing on making money off of money as opposed to investing in green shoots.

Oh wait....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JonQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #186
198. How long will the "he's just getting started"
defense fly? I mean at some point he has to do something, right?

It's not like he's had 9 months in office with a complete dominance of both houses.

Oh wait, that's exactly what he's had.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nvme Donating Member (486 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #198
215. Amen to that.
The honeymoon is OVER! You got a putrid, rotting shit sandwich that ya gotta take a whole mouthful to do what you gotta do. I accept no less than success from this president. He can sway people. It is not just the sycophants that can make policy. If people have to be knee-capped than so be it. If the environment needs fixing, get a mutherfucking wrench. I am over the"it can't be done crowd". We have done the impossible. We put a black man in the whitehouse despite our over/covert racism. We took congress. FUCK YOU and the nays-sayers. We can make it happen.
Wont make it happen is another matter. That can be fought with a serious nut squeeze. Take their money. take their money! take their fucking money! If they have a finance arm send them 5 bucks and a note that the other part is reserved for the next candidate who will stand up to you. 2010 is coming. Call them and write them. if they have an office GO TO IT and make them throw you out. put a fucking video on myspace, facebook, youtube, and twitter till your fingers are bloody. thats how you get their attention. since the shitbird media loves dissension eventually one of our lame ass comments will blip across the tv thing. The game is theirs to lose.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 10:30 AM
Response to Original message
191. "Don't look back!"
At campaign promises...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DailyGrind51 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 10:49 AM
Response to Original message
192. Thank you!
I am almost 60 and fully appreciate what you have expressed here. I invested in my own retraining for another career, only to discover that my new chosen field of endeavor was not hiring over-educated "50-somethings". I consider myself fortunate to get hired at a much lower level, just to obtain health insurance (I am a long-term cancer survivor).

When I actively supported Obama, I was hoping for a young FDR. However, it seems all I got was a debating team captain! :-(
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 10:54 AM
Response to Original message
193. LOL. The big donors elected Obama. Give me a break with this weepy crap
and do a reality check. American politics is not run by the ramen noodle crowd, but vice-versa.

Obama is a Sidley Austin intern who worked with partner Bradford Berenson,
the defender of the Bush criminals and former Bush White House counsel.
If you were an intern or partner in the world's largest law firm, you know how the system works.

And this will go on until the ramen noodle eaters complete their reality check,
develop a better understanding of political facts in the USA, and find their own
candidate instead of falling for empty rhetoric developed by polling primary voters.

The People need to assume the role of the Kingmakers.
Meanwhile, make the best of it and enjoy your noodles.
Nothing will change until after 2016, that seems certain.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #193
201. +1 nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
spiritual_gunfighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 11:12 AM
Response to Original message
196. I am in the same boat pretty much
I was out of work for the better part of a year not being able to find a job in my field. I am now delivering pizzas, at least it's a job. I believed that President Obama would do the things he said he would during the campaign, I now see he who he is serving and it makes me sick. I still support my President and he has done many great things, I just wish he saw fit to work for us and not for Wall Street.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BobRossi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 11:15 AM
Response to Original message
197. I lost my job with Obama in office.
I made good money with shrub in office.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
clear eye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #197
207. That's confused.
Edited on Sun Oct-18-09 11:50 AM by clear eye
No matter where you stand on Obama, Bush, or rather Cheney, set the groundwork for the great collapse by willfully ignoring that the banks had created a pyramid scheme of derivatives, and facilitating, rather than preventing the BIG LOOT of the country and all its borrowing power. They worked all day, every day to facilitate the transfer of any wealth regular folks had to the tiny group of the ultra-rich. They timed the final blow so that the worst consequences fell when they left office.

Putting those guys back in power would NOT improve our prosperity.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EndElectoral Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 11:45 AM
Response to Original message
203. When you run on Yes We Can and all you get is compromise it feels "Hope"less
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CountAllVotes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 11:45 AM
Response to Original message
204. We've been in a downhill slide since Reagan
how can it be undone after having a new President that has only been in office for 9 months? It cannot be undone that quickly.

It may take years to "fix" if it is indeed "fixable".

I share your frustration.

Many of us were hoping for a lot of change very quickly and it is simply not happening and I doubt it will happen anytime soon.

However, we must give the President more time IMO.

I too was one of those that donated money I really did not have to "give" but I gave anyway hoping so desperately for change we could believe in.

:dem:

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
12AngryBorneoWildmen Donating Member (128 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 12:21 PM
Response to Original message
209. Great title on your piece.
But yeah, that's right. I gave $200 incrementally to Obama/Biden and on October 1 (my birthday), I gave my land landlady three post dated checks for my rent. An aside- she's 75, from Iran and her name is Iran (I guess that's kind of like being named Virginia), she's a Zoroastrian and she's a nice lady-hates the mullahs. Now that's how you do TMI.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Texasgal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 12:24 PM
Response to Original message
210. I never expected Obama
to change everything, I've been burned politically to many times. My expectations are more realistic.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 02:24 PM
Response to Original message
228. I don't know how many more of these hand wringing threads I can take
nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
natrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #228
264. are you blind? do you not see how corrupt the entire federal government leadership is?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sharp_stick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 02:26 PM
Response to Original message
230. And the same shits come out of the woodwork
and fill their own little echo chamber to make their lives feel complete.

I've never had such a busy ignore list but thanks for helping me fill it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Maat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 02:37 PM
Response to Original message
233. Progressives should get behind third-party candidates in 2010 ...
and teach the two parties a lesson.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #233
235. won't happen. why some of you don't get that third parties need to
be built on the local level, is beyond me.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #233
237. Progressives should grow up and become the second party
And if they can't do that, then they need to accept they either they don't know how to organize or they don't have the people behind them like they think they do.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 02:39 PM
Response to Original message
234. "you're broke, so you really don't count anymore" welcome to the politics of reality
in the Democratic party.

It has been this way now for decades.

Maybe now some of you will begin to see it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Christa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
236. You have to send this directly to him
He has to read it

:cry:

I am in the same boat as you

:cry:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
elias7 Donating Member (913 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 03:57 PM
Response to Original message
249. Did Obama not say that things would get worse before they got better?
Your expectations are totally unrealistic. Your impatience is understandable, but the man has been in office for nine months! It's going to take years to slow the inertia and alter the direction of the powers that be in this country. If you want him to lose all support of those who think differently than you, than he can cater to your needs. If, however, we want the Dems to stay in power, gain the confidence of repubs and corporate America, get re-elected, build a coalition, you need to be a little more patient. Though you say you were once 18-25 yrs old, your rush to judgment seems somewhat naive.

I'm sorry things are tough for you. They are tough for me too. But I made a choice 11 months ago, and I am going to give the man his term before passing judgment, losing faith, criticizing him, etc. I would not be so presumptuous as to think that because the world has not changed yet, that he doesn't get it, no longer cares for me, is going back on his promises, lacks vision. I realize from his progress how difficult his task must actually be. He needs our support now more than ever.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Balbus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #249
262. I try that same tactic whenever I interview for a better job.
I tell the person that's interviewing me, "At first I'm going to suck at the job. But I will get better...".

Hasn't worked for me yet.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
elias7 Donating Member (913 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-19-09 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #262
272. Straw man n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
clear eye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #249
266. I would buy that if he even deigned to listen to a progressive expert now and then.
You can't be believed as someone who is trying to do the right thing if you only listen to representatives of the country's most powerful interests, have no progressive wonks even in secondary advisory positions, and send someone to give a tongue-lashing to progressive journalists who simply try to "make you" move in the people's interest.

It doesn't help his credibility that he expands on the loss of civil liberties in the Patriot Act. That he takes no action when Northcom integrates active duty military into "tactical response teams" doing crowd control at large peaceful demonstrations in violation of the Posse Comitatus Act. Or when he doesn't see fit to investigate and fire attorneys in the DOJ who have gone and are going out of their way to persecute liberals like ACORN and Siegelman on trumped up charges.

He says "make me" and then has people surveil you or gas you if you try to.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
thunder rising Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 04:27 PM
Response to Original message
252. I don't know in what ways this touched so many DUers. I did not expect this reaction
I've reread the rant many times and wished I could correct the typos, but I stand by what it says.

I think what got to so many was the obvious truth:

However, that glow isn't lasting nearly as long as it used to. There is no "force multiplier". Nobody is going out registering voters or calling their friends. The party is in fact in decline and it's your watch.


Thanks to everybody for responding.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
backtomn Donating Member (424 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
254. Apparently he doesn't
From a so-called "Democratic strategist"......

"Can I speak freely about the liberal whiners?" asks a well-connected Democratic strategist. "These are the same people who have never participated in, much less won, a campaign, who have no idea what it takes to maintain a majority and keep a speaker of our party, who want Obama to kowtow to the loony Left, and then they're going to be the ones who say, 'What happened?' in November 2010, when we lose the House and possibly the Senate and maybe a lot of governorships."

The White House, too, is growing sick of the whiners. NBC's John Harwood recently reported that Team Obama views the complainers as part of the "Internet Left fringe," and that one White House adviser said, "Those bloggers need to take off their pajamas, get dressed and realize that governing a closely dividedcountry is complicated and difficult."

I don't want to appear to be a naysayer, but I believe that he might need to be reminded who got him elected. Let him hear your voices.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Missy Vixen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-19-09 12:17 AM
Response to Reply #254
267. I guess I'm a "liberal whiner"
I've held elected office. I participated in campaigns from the time I went doorbelling at 12. I might also mention I'm a blogger. I asked then-Senator Obama some pretty tough questions the night he was named the Democratic Party's candidate; I'm still waiting for some answers.

http://strategerie.wordpress.com/2008/08/28/and-we-see-... enver-colorado/

Interestingly enough, I'm dressed. It's unfortunate that the Obama administration isn't.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 05:31 PM
Response to Original message
261. Lived on ramen noodles???
Sorry, but anyone who gave up on eating three square meals to help elect a candidate is either very young and naive or a dope. No politician is worth it. As for campaign promises, to paraphrase Yogi Berra, they are not worth the paper they are written on.

Having said that, I'm terribly sorry that you are going through hard times. I wish you the best.

;)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
natrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 06:11 PM
Response to Original message
263. they are crooks, they have taken the government-it's that simple
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 06:13 PM
Response to Original message
265. Keep your head up.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
quaker bill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-19-09 06:29 AM
Response to Original message
271. I am pretty sure he does.
I am pretty sure he thinks you count even if you are broke. I am also pretty sure we have a congress filled with millionaires, many not all that bright, and few with much of a clue on what it is like to live one paycheck to the next. It must be tough to see the need and have to negotiate half-baked solutions with a room full of caucasian millionaires worried about their taxes.

What is one man, even the President, supposed to do about this? We all want change to happen yesterday. Sorry, but it is a big ship, and does not turn very quickly.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
democracy1st Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-19-09 05:05 PM
Response to Original message
275. kick
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri Apr 03rd 2020, 10:44 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC