People - Please, Don't let this story fade...Executed Texas man...

[HardWorkingDem]

People, read this article and don't let this story fade. This is something so shameful and disgusting. This man died at the hands of nothing more than lazy bureaucrats and a lazy Governor. These people should be ashamed of themselves and lie in their beds sleepless every night for the rest of their lives.

And for what it is worth....even though I know from an intellectual point that the death penalty is not a deterrent and there are serious problems with it, I do think there are people in the US that deserve to be put to death (in my area we have a case going on right now where an ex-husband has just been arrested for killing his ex-wife, their children and other family members).

Still, this story must not be allowed to go silent.

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/09/07/090907fa_fact_grann

[Onceuponalife]

1. It's Texas, whaddaya expect?

They execute anything that moves. And god help anyone who wanders onto someone's yard...

[PDJane]

2. The fact remains that if one innocent person dies,

Then the death penalty is a failure. I don't, moreover, trust the legal system not to make mistakes; I've worked in the system for half of my lifetime, and it's an interesting and useful thing to have, but it isn't foolproof, and never will be.

[maglatinavi]

3. Texas

Ditto. Gov. Perry has removed members of the commission that was to hear the points relating to the unjust "murder by the state" of an innocent man the day before the hearing. Every Texan should be ashamed of having a "murderous" governor and a failed justice system.

[truedelphi]

5. Yes if one dies a wrongful death it shows how the death penalty

Is a travesty.

And also, someone must always be the executioner. How can anyone (any group of anyones) ask another person to hold a job of executing another person?

[Wizard777]

19. Why doesn't his Family try to sue Texas for Wrongful Death?

[Occulus]

4. And this is ***SO*** much more important than Polanski.

This needs to stay on our radar.

Rec'd.

[armyowalgreens]

6. K&R

Saving for later.

[unblock]

7. no matter how much someone deserves to die, NO GOVERNMENT deserves the power to kill its subjects

[nuxvomica]

8. This is a riveting story

I hadn't expected to read the whole thing but it's pretty compelling stuff. I think an innocent person was executed and I bet he's not the only one.

[EOTE]

67. He's undoubtedly not the only one.

Our system of justice is deeply flawed. I imagine that after someone is put to death, very little work is done to verify that they made the correct decision in executing him or her. God only knows what the real number of innocents executed is, but one thing I'm sure of is that it's far too many. What an incredibly sad story.

I will never support the death penalty as it exists in its current form. There are far too many flaws for it to be applied equitably now.

[MH1]

9. Kick - this is important

[EmeraldCityGrl]

10. If I were not already against capital punishment,

this story would have changed my mind.

Last week a third panel was going to determine the fire Todd Willingham was convicted and executed for, WAS NOT ARSON.

Rick Perry the governor, removed three members of the panel before that announcement could be made to protect his
own sorry ass in an election year.

This story is profoundly sad. The criminal justice system in Texas is third world and a national disgrace.

[Nikki Stone1]

11. The grandfather had $15,000 insurance policies on the kids. There's a motive the cops seem to have

ignored. Considering that both parents came from very troubled homes, the grandfather should have been a suspect.

[Nikki Stone1]

12. Interesting the Led Zepplin posters and Iron Maiden posters were used to prove his "violence"

and that he was a "sociopath." Many of us would be violent and sociopathic if hard rock posters were considered the criterion.

[Nikki Stone1]

14. "lying police and jailhouse informants are the leading cause of wrongful convictions in capital case

Holy crap. Who knew?

[EmeraldCityGrl]

21. When the prosecutor was interviewed last week

he suggested in his ignorant Texas drawl, that the posters indicated Willingham was involved in "devil worship."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lazp8cuPi18

[Nikki Stone1]

27. OMG!

How stupid can you get?

[EmeraldCityGrl]

32. From Texas I presume.

[ChickMagic]

62. Come on now

"his ignorant Texas drawl"

I have an ignorant Texas drawl. Ah'm powerful sad ya'll'r all trussed up about it.
I'm fixin to simmer down now.

On edit: I should have said this entire trial and execution was a travesty of justice.
Rick Perry is a terminal asshole and believe me, he sleeps just fine at night.

[truedelphi]

53. Led Zeppelin? Oh yeah, I remember now -

They had that awful violent video and song "Stairway to Hellish Behavior with Serial Rape and Murder!"

Lyrics -- And I'm buying a stairway to

Hell and Murder!

[SallyMander]

13. Wow, i just read this whole article

Completely heartbreaking -- this is why i can't support the death penalty, ever. Humans (and our justice system) are just too fallible.

ETA, K&R!

[Nikki Stone1]

15. And this:

"lying police and jailhouse informants are the leading cause of wrongful convictions in capital cases in the United States"

[Nikki Stone1]

16. The scientific ignorance of the arson investigators is stunning.

Just unbelievable.

[SallyMander]

17. As a scientist of a different sort (biologist)

I think that scientific illiteracy is one of the major ills of our country. Basic, GOOD education in science and logic would solve a lot of our problems!

[Nikki Stone1]

18. I think you are right. The sad thing is that these arson investigators were going on junk science

Just unbelievable.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

71. I have heard that "bite mark" evidence is another made up forensic junk science

But jurors love to believe anyone who sets themselves up as an expert. Defense attorneys should counter this stuff a lot harder to keep innocent people out of jails.

[HardWorkingDem]

34. What really turns my stomach about this article is how...

if I remember correctly, the report written by the last scientist was only ten pages long or so. TEN pieces of paper for a human life that these bureaucrats could not find the the time to read.

Hell, anyone of these asses could have had an underling read the ten pages, then do a page summary. Especially someone like a state governor.

[SallyMander]

42. Absolutely -- the scientist busted his a$$ and got it out as fast as he could

because he was so convinced by the evidence, that this could easily have been an accidental fire. The story is so tragic all around -- this guy lost his 3 little girls, lost his wife, spent 12 years in jail, and then was executed over something that really looks like just a devastating accident.

There were so many mishandlings at every level, but you're right, the joke of an "appeal for clemency" at the end is an extra painful twist of the knife. :(

[Nikki Stone1]

20. “death by fax” Jesus Christ.

They owed it to this guy to look at the materials.

[Joe Chi Minh]

22. K&R

[nadinbrzezinski]

23. kick

[SeattleGirl]

24. It IS very shameful, what happend to Mr. Willingham.

I am in the midst of reading that article, plus one from the Chicago Tribune, and two forensic reports on the fire itself.

Stories like this are exactly why I am against the death penalty; this and because I am also against state sanctioned murder.

What really pisses me off about this story is how the powers that be in Texas essentially thumbed their noses at new evidence, and killed Mr. Willingham anyway. Probably all so they wouldn't have to say they were wrong, or at least that the conviction might have been a wrongful one, and agree to look at the new information.

I am disgusted beyond reason about this.

[Kingofalldems]

25. What is the punishment for killing an innocent person?

What say the death penalty advocates on this?

[ChickMagic]

63. According to Fat Tony on the Supreme Court

Innocence does not provide for an exception to the death penalty.
Tried by jury and all that stuff.

[cynatnite]

26. I stayed up late reading the entire story a while back...

This was just incredible.

Texas gov. is trying to cover up the fact that an innocent man was executed...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6691336

[Hydra]

28. Suprised that I read the whole story too

The sad part is that most people wouldn't have cared had he been made to rot in jail for 100 years. It's only because he got railroaded to the death chamber that it became an issue of his guilt or innocence.

We have far too much faith in our justice system...or maybe it just doesn't matter to most people until it happens to them.

[tXr]

33. It's not a justice system, it's a legal system.

There is precious little justice to be had.

[Gman2]

43. It's not even that, It is an adversarial tug--o-war.

The only important thing, is that the carpetbaggter that is looking to higher office, has pelts, to show he or she is TOUGH ON CRIME. You gotta break a few eggs, to make an omlette.

[Nikki Stone1]

51. I think it may be the latter.

/

[Alameda]

29. Thank you, an amazing story! Glad he has been vindicated.

Even if he was executed, having one's innocence proven is important.

[eppur_se_muova]

30. "Thin Blue Line" ... an excellent documentary about the TX 'justice' system ...

look for the director's comments (in a filmed follow-up) if you can find them.

The important thing is to get convictions. Whether the convicted are guilty does not matter.

[Bozita]

31. ABC Nightline did a piece on the New Yorker report. Link to the video ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x382483

The link to the New Yorker article is also there.

Tell your friends.

[MajorChode]

54. The video shows the idiot arson investigator and the idiot prosecutor

It's a must see.

[EmeraldCityGrl]

35. K&R RIP Todd Willingham

[ovidsen]

36. Texas Governor Rick Perry is the real villain here

He has repeatedly ridiculed the forensics experts who say the fire that killed Cameron Willingham's 3 little girls was definitely NOT arson. In fact, he seems to take pride in dismissing their opinions:

Last month, Mr. Perry expressed confidence that Mr. Willingham was guilty and played down reports casting doubt on the original investigation, calling the authors “supposed experts,” while making a quotes gesture with his fingers.

Last week, to show his contempt of the review of Willingham's execution, he fired the head of the Texas Forensics Science Commission and two of its members, just days before the Commission was to hold a hearing on this issue. Naturally, he denied any connection:

Mr. Perry denied Thursday that the changes he had made at the commission were intended to quash the investigation. At a news conference for his re-election campaign, he said, “Those individuals’ terms were up, so we’re replacing them.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/02/us/02texas.html?_r=1&scp=2&sq=texas&st=nyt

What an asshole. At the very least, he should be impeached. And a criminal investigation is definitely warranted. Perry clearly has no concept of the value of human life.

edit: link

[DUlover2909]

37. I believe in the death penalty

in only rare cases.

1) If someone admits their guilt after or before being convicted in court AND they request to be put to death.

2) A person willfully commits premeditated murder or treason AND the guilt of the crime is completely obvious to any reasonable person AND the person received competent legal representation in court AND all appeals have been totally exhausted AND the perpetrator remains a threat to other human beings while in custody. An example of this would be someone that murders people in plain sight of witnesses and is immediately subdued and apprehended and conclusive forensic evidence is available that proves beyond doubt that the suspect is completely guilty regardless of the suspect's testimony otherwise.

In all other cases I prefer a life sentence because there might come a day when the convict is exonerated.

[redqueen]

38. Please sign the petition here:

http://camerontoddwillingham.com/?page_id=6

[winyanstaz]

39. K & R....and how do you fix death? Cant just say..ooops..we are sorry.

This is why I am NOT for the death penalty. And besides the fact that innocent people die..anytime a government can kill it's citizens..it is on its way to a dictatorship. It's just wrong. What part of "Thou shalt not kill" don't people get?

[Autonomy]

40. No innocent person has EVER been executed in Texas

Yeah, right.

Not only does this story demonstrate the need to abolish the death penalty, but it also shows the criminal indifference and complicity in murder of many people in law enforcement and elected officials.

I am angry enough right now that I think Rick Perry and those two bozo fire inspectors be charged with Willingham's murder -- in the first degree, of course.

[Autonomy]

41. Okay, I've been looking at youtube videos

about Todd Willingham and the prosecution. I can see myself becoming obsessed with this case, this man, his life and death. I always knew innocents were being executed, but somehow this changes everything. Why have I not heard about this man previously? And I am a former volunteer for Amnesty International's Program to Abolish the Death Penalty. I think I need to call them and get involved again.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

52. Barry Scheck's Innocence Project works on these kinds of cases.

You may remember Barry Scheck from the OJ murder trial.

[HardWorkingDem]

55. Love/Hate Barry Scheck....

Barry Scheck has created a wonderful program, however, I think some day he will have to apologize for the DNA bastardization he did in the OJ Simpson trial.

Someday I wonder if he will come clean and admit he did what he did for publicity and to further the good things the Innocence Project does do.

[Liberal_in_LA]

44. Nice big story on national news this morning. Basically saying Perry let an innocent man die to

protect his re-election prospects and that he's blocking a review of the execution.

[The Magistrate]

47. That Is Exactly What Happened, Ma'am: It is Hard To See Room for Reasonable Doubt About It

[Liberal_in_LA]

48. Yup, that's the way it appeared on the news. Perry's a murderer

[wildbilln864]

45. kick! nt

[Iggo]

46. Kick.

[BlooInBloo]

49. Good that this post got some attention.

[The Magistrate]

50. Indeed, Sir: This Cannot Be Allowed To Go Under the Rug

[Batgirl]

56. Thanks for posting this story; it sank rather quickly the other day

(likely due in part to the Polanski flame wars.)

I wouldn't ever want the power to decide if somebody lives or dies. I'm a flawed human being. I've been wrong, many times, sometimes to a large degree. And from what I can tell, there is nothing remotely out of the ordinary about my track record. The same can be said of most anyone I know. People who are basically good, but who sometimes, inevitably, fall short. We can and should forgive our human foibles, but it's arrogant and dangerous to deny their existence.

But even more problematic is that smaller subset of humanity -- the ones who don't really give a shit about right and wrong to begin with. Unfortunately, It seems a disproportionate number of these people are drawn to positions of power where they can do incredible amounts of damage to innocent lives. Their SOP is to ignore or falsify reality in order to advance what they perceive as their self-interest.

Anyone with a basic understanding of human nature, who can still come out in favor of the death penalty, either accepts the guaranteed fact that the State is going to kill some innocents along with the guilty, or they are clinging to some fantasy version of the death penalty -- where it's okay to execute people, it's just that there are a few little kinks that need to be worked out. These fantasy executions would be imposed with complete fairness and equality, without a shred of regard for the race or socio-economic status of the accused person, and even then, only when the crime was witnessed by millions during a live broadcast of the Superbowl.

In the linked story, they knew the original forensics that lead to a guilty verdict were flawed. They preferred that this man be put to death rather than have to admit they had wrongfully convicted and imprisoned him. Such an admission might erode the almighty authority and infallibility of the State.

[HardWorkingDem]

59. Your last sentences are quite profound...

and right on the money. Yes, these miserable people could not just spend a half hour out of their time to read a short document that might have just made them think a bit that maybe, just maybe, they needed to step up and do the right thing.

Now, this is something a political executive SHOULD be impeached for....

And the only bright note in all of this is that maybe we will never have to worry about a President Perry and frankly, compared to executing this man, that isn't even that bright of a spot.

[asdjrocky]

57. How much do you want to bet he was poor?

[Scurrilous]

58. Kick

:kick:

[redqueen]

60. ...

:kick:

[Iggo]

61. kick...

[Swamp Rat]

64. kick

[derby378]

65. This is also why Texas needs to clone Craig Watkins

He's the DA for Dallas County, and he has been instrumental in working with the Innocence Project to use DNA evidence to free the wrongly convicted from Texas jails.

Rick Perry and his cronies should hang their heads in shame when they consider the amount of work that Watkins has put into making sure Texans receive equal justice under law.

[redqueen]

66. Please sign the petition:

http://camerontoddwillingham.com/?page_id=6

:kick:

[HardWorkingDem]

70. I signed it and hope many do the same....

Hope more of the media pick up on this story.....

[grantcart]

68. You can listen to an excellent NPR story update here:

http://www.npr.org/templates/player/mediaPlayer.html?action=1&t=1&islist=false&id=113405213&m=113406103

[KBlagburn]

69. kick