Bill Sparkman's murder, a pattern and FEAR

[nadinbrzezinski]

look folks I get it. The pattern that is starting to emerge really is scary. Having people go around threatening to kill people because they work fer them FEDS, or plain out doing it, is scary.

Having Tea Baggers threaten lives is SCARY.

Having Tea Baggers come to political rallies with guns IS DAMN FUCKING SCARY.

I get it.

The question is not whether some folks are scared, if you are not, you are not paying attention. It is what you do about it.

The pattern is not nice, and it is pointing to something that will not be pleasant.

I admit, at this point I just file these incidents into the road to hell file... but I recognize my own, at times, sleepless nights. Why? I know what I am looking at.

This is yet one more marker on that road, and for crying out loud, it is time to use the right language in these incidents.

It is terrorism, and this was a LYNCHING.

Oh and finally this is no game...

But the first step is to recognize that fear and stop putting the proverbial head in the denial category. Once you do, then it may be time to reach across and try to find common ground. We can still stop this... but every day there is less of a chance.

And so it goes... me will continue to file into the road to hell.... we are on....

Oh and yes, experience does help, as well as some knowledge of HISTORY.

Oh and in this particular case, bear in mind folks, Clay Co has a history, a LONG history, of not trusting the Feds... it goes back at least to 1801... in reality to the 1700 and the population that came to Kentucky fleeing the King's men and tax men...

That is the historical milieu this is happening, but this is THIS PARTICULAR event.

Read a book or two, and try to understand.

But it is time to use the correct language... terrorism and lynching are correct terms in this case.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

1. First they came for David Carradine, but I said nothing...

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

9. What an ass you are!

I'm sure you see some stupid correlation with the murder of this poor man and David Carradine (nakedness and hanging)and feel that your actual humanity (and everyone else's) is worth such a cheap shot.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

12. How dare you, sir or madame!

David Carradine died so that we could know the truth!

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

19. Noel Coward meets Ted Bundy.

Flippency combined with sociopathy. Not a good combo to most.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

20. Michelle Bachmann meets that fat guy from Office Space.

Broad stereotypes combined with jumping to conclusions.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

Don't provoke right wingnuts.

Remember, not everyone in here is a Dem. Some of them are those brownshirts that listen to Glen Beck and Rush Limpdick. Pardon the French.

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. Thankfully ignored is ignored

but perhaps ignored should be alerted on

[RetroLounge]

69. You are a true prick...

:puke:

RL

[Sarah Ibarruri]

2. As a lib who wasn't born here, I see the biggest fear among libs

Libs in this country are not tough and ballsy.

:(

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. Oh that will happen, no choice mostly

also many libs are... veterans of the armed forces. So if it comes to that, and I hope it does not... them balls will grow out of necessity.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

5. :( American libs are going to wait till a point that is SO ugly

Why can't they stand up now and get angry? Before it gets any worse?

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. Been to any of the demonstrations?

People are... your media ain't showing it.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

10. And we don't inundate the media with letters, we don't protest against the media....

We don't boycott the products they advertise, etc. etc. etc.

Yep, I've been to protests and you're right, unless we hit the media, our protests will fall on deaf ears.

[nadinbrzezinski]

14. We have locally

[Sarah Ibarruri]

16. Good! I don't have a chance to do a lot but I DO inundate the media with letters and

I have boycotted products, but it's not easy to get libs to boycott products, believe me, I've tried! They just won't do it.

[midnight]

43. I think you probably are more right than the media wants us to know.

[Ian David]

3. Fuck 'em. We won't go count people in Conservative districts anymore if they're gonna lynch us. n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. It goes well beyond the Census

[Common Sense Party]

40. We won't count the meth-heads and dope growers, either.

[Beer on a stick]

8. What pattern? You've submitted no data that indicates any pattern here.

[nadinbrzezinski]

17. Free clue, read the OP

the pattern is there... at least the late developments.

[Beer on a stick]

21. Free tip: when you make a claim, back it up with data.

You have offered no actual data that would be useful in determining any patterns or trends.

[nadinbrzezinski]

22. Ok you want data, since you cannot see it

man brings loaded gun to demonstration in august.

New Hampshire

Then a few more bring more loaded guns...

Arizona

There is plenty of screaming at Tea bagger demonstrations, beyond the normal frothing at the mouth. You will have to take my word for it, but San Diego Sheriffs was so afraid of trouble they brought that sonic cannon to the one we went to, in East County, Lemon Grove... to keep the peace.

Now we had a census worker lynched in Clay County Kentuky.

Now these are the LATE developments

I am sure you can look up Glenn beck's speeches, or a governor or two calling for leaving the Union (later retracted) or the 10th Amendment movement.

Now perhaps you can use the google, some of these stories are a tad old by now... but about a year old at most

Oh and I forgot... Congresswoman Bachman screaming that the census was used to identify people before internment on the well of the House... with the implication that the Census will be used for FEMA run internment camps. Oh and never mind this is mandated by the Constitution.

Need more proof? Or you really need somebody to hold your hand while searching the google? Those who are paying attention realize and know exactly what I was talking about.

[Beer on a stick]

26. Sorry, that is not evidence any pattern that you have definitively identified.

You clearly attempted to tie this 'pattern' in with the death of this census employee, but offer:

A. No, set defined pattern.
B. No data indicative of any other events like the death of this individual being tied to your examples.

Perhaps if you actually knew what a pattern was, you wouldn't be so confused.

Do you really need someone to instruct you in logic and why your post is utterly bereft of it?

Those paying attention know that you're arguing based on emotion with no quantifiable data whatsoever.

[nadinbrzezinski]

27. Denial ain't just a river in Egypt

good night

[Beer on a stick]

28. And logic and rationality are things you're acquainted with, apparently.

Good luck with your emotional ranting.

[nadinbrzezinski]

30. I see...

why don't you use a google and look into Civil Wars and coarsening of langauge, and what precedes a hot phase?

by the way, welcome to my ignore list

[Beer on a stick]

33. Why don't you actually back up what you're claiming you see?

I suppose it's too much to ask to expect you to actually back up what you say.

[anigbrowl]

37. You're wasting your time...this thread is not designed to inform.

[Beer on a stick]

41. Yep. It's pretty much just unhinged, emotional catterwauling.

[conscious evolution]

66. Civil wars are no lomger fought

by men in grey uniforms standing in a line firing weapons at men in blue uniforms adross a field.

Todays civil wars are fought using assymetrical warfare.
Google that term someday and educate yourself as to what a modern civil war looks like.

[Beer on a stick]

68. Self-delete

Posted in wrong place.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

11. I think you're right.

And it's past time that we acted on it.


K&R

[eleny]

13. I'm sure you remember when James Byrd was dragged to death behind a truck in Texas

He's been in my thoughts lately prompted by the news of this new atrocity.

+5

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. Yep, I do

but that did not follow a pattern like this.

[eleny]

23. It's the grotesque part of America that's always lurking in the underbelly

And every once in a while it feels it has the right to emerge.

I see a pattern. It's the perceived privilege to do violence against minorities and government. One you lynch and the other you "drown in a bathtub" by taping it to a tree.

Have you read Bageant's "Deer Hunting With Jesus"? It's an old book but it explains a lot about the anti government types, the racists and the gay haters. A real page turner.

[nadinbrzezinski]

29. Fire across the plain is a 1990s

non fiction on this...

Right now readying a real classic, the nine nations of North America... as well as Shaeffer's book...

[eleny]

36. Bageant is non fiction. He explains his people, what makes them tick

Bageant is one of the good guys, btw.

[nadinbrzezinski]

38. Got it for the Kindle

So will be read soon.

All that research I am doing again, into that underbelly

[eleny]

44. The explanations in that book come back to me time and time again

And then there were the two stupid fools I argued with outside my library today. Here's the url with the story
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=142x7432

No need to reply over there. I'm not fishing for thread kicks. It's just that sometimes there's no rhyme or reason to these sob hypocrites.

Nite!

[Ilsa]

47. Some chapter titles: American Serfs - Inside the White Ghetto of the Working Poor,

Republicans By Default - Redneck Pride and Fear in an Age of Outsourcing, The Deep-Fried, Double-Wide Lifestyle - Whatever It Takes, the Mortgage Racket Will Put You Under Your Own Roof, etc.

http://www.amazon.com/Deer-Hunting-Jesus-Dispatches-Americas/dp/030733936X#reader

Bageant nails it.

[nadinbrzezinski]

50. Well I guess I will enjoy doing some readying tomorrow

at hubby's union meeting.

:-)

[Thirtieschild]

24. Beginning to sound like Philadelphia, Mississippi

[nadinbrzezinski]

31. Yeah I made that commment I think yesterday

and we know how that one ended... with Guard and FBI. If this has anything to do with drugs, the DEA has all the excuse they need to come guns a'blazing

[get the red out]

25. You are absolutely right

And I have been bothered by it for a while now. I can't understand why liberals keep wanting to shut down discussion of what we are facing in this country. Looking for ways of countering this sick right-wing culture that has emerged, especially in the south, should be a priority.

One of our biggest problems is that the media hasn't done its job in years, it won't call any of these conspiracy theorist right-wingers on their total ignorance, they should be laughing stocks not the "opposition opinion". The media is a circus and the big acts are the insane right-wingers. It is hard to fight this without much real journalism left in the country.

[nadinbrzezinski]

34. The need to shut it down is driven by fear

as to the media... they are RW... though this is starting to emerge as a pattern of stories covered by MSNBC, and I suspect this one broke through the haze to the nightly news.

[ThoughtCriminal]

32. As a Census Worker - I can tell you about the pattern

Our field people have encountered hostility and threats. They have had shots fired in their direction, dogs released to chase them and other acts of intimidation.

It comes from anti-government wing-nuts in what we call "black-helicopter country", and from remote meth-lab estates. It is also a mistake to assume that we are talking about two separate groups of people.

I'm often thankful that I work in the office rather than the field, but I'm real careful about wearing my badge outside and we drill for attacks on our building. The death of Bill Sparkman did not some as a surprise to anybody who has been working for the Census Bureau. We know that it is a dangerous job. Most of us are doing this because we need to work, but are also proud of what we doing - the Census is an essential function in a representative democracy.

[nadinbrzezinski]

35. Sadly it did not surprse me either

and they are the same folks many a times, very true.

Take care out there, by the way.

[Common Sense Party]

39. Census worker stumbles upon meth lab in backwoods Kentucky

and is murdered so he cannot report it to the DEA.

That is the most Occam's razor likely explanation of what happened here.

And that ties into some goofball openly wearing a sidearm outside a President Obama speech--how, exactly? (As you suggest elsewhere in this thread)

Or are you referring to the Islamic militant terrorist attempts and plots broken up this week? How is this lynching related to those?

I'm afraid you've lost me.

[nadinbrzezinski]

42. Actually I am talking of a pattern leading to civil war

and no the muslim plots have nuthing to do with this

While the guy wearing a gun in NH does... only because of the FED scrawled.

Mow riddle me this... you realize the DEA will come in guns a'blazing into Clay Co? Why? they have the excuse. Why do this and not just kill the guy and not make it such an anti guv message?

Oh and the pattern I am talking about started really defining itself on or about 1996... and just like the Clinton Admin, the militias are on the upswing.

[Beer on a stick]

45. No, you're talking about a pattern made of imagination, vapor and magic fairy dust

And one you still haven't proven.

At all.

[EmeraldCityGrl]

46. How can this be stopped before this kind of event

becomes more common? Frankly, I'm more fearful of the domestic terrorists than anyone from overseas.
I blame the economic stagnation that has taken place over the last forty years for so much of this.

[nadinbrzezinski]

49. I don't know.

Perhaps if we try to build bridges across before it is too late.

To me, it's gotten to the point that I am just waiting for the other shoe to drop. Not looking forwards to it, just waiting for it.

I try to talk to my neighbors, but if you reach politics it quickly devolves into not talking to each other. And that is a bad sign.

[EmeraldCityGrl]

51. I distinctly remember Michelle Bachman

making a statement that "the census is nothing more than a way for Obama to find out what drawer you put your underwear in."
I don't watch FOX, but I'm sure that rant was repeated ad nauseam. Everyone has been warning that this type of irresponsible hate
speech was going to come back with a vengeance. At the very least we have to hold those inciting the violence responsible.

[nadinbrzezinski]

52. This is clay county though

and it may or may not have a whit to do with crazy bachman...

The problem we have is that pesky freedom of speech. Unless you can tie it, without a shadow of a doubt, to incitement...

[Treo]

53. Have you ever seen "Invasion USA" ?NT

[nadinbrzezinski]

56. No but readying the link on wiki

reads like an awuful plot

But the kind of fantasies our RWers love...

Hey at least the ruskies invade the US and kids revolt has a better plot.

[Treo]

57. well the key to the movie

was that the terrorist pitted Americans against each other by having fake cops shoot hispanic kids in Miami and black terrorist shoot white victims and white terrorists shoot up a black youth center. Long story short the country breaks up into armed camps and Chuck Norris saves the day.

I'm hearing the same rhetoric in this thread

PS It was the cheesiest movie Chuck ever made

[nadinbrzezinski]

58. Well, here is where I come from

I hold a history degree. I am also familiar with how countries drift onto civil wars and as a Red Cross Medic interviewed survivors of bona fide ones.

That is what we are seeing.

Now what I see in this thread is slightly different than you do. I see the denial that also comes as a nation drifts into war. We did in the 1850s, and we are doing it again. It can still be stopped, but the only way to do it is to first admit we have a problem and then take active action to build bridges.

And even then, I am not sure... anymore.

And trust me, the last thing I want to see if this cold war go hot. But we seem to be moving inexorably down that road, and it is just picking speed.

[Treo]

59. I fully expect

If not war at least some serious civil unrest. but I think it's going to be along the lines of the Haves V. the have nots when the government goes broke and can't pay their entitlement checks.

[nadinbrzezinski]

61. That goes without saying

when 1% has most of the wealth... it is not healthy for any nation.

And haves v nots will probably happen as part of the process.

As to the governemnt going broke... I will be surprised if it actually does go broke... not that it could not happen. Just how international affairs work I will be shocked.

For the haves v nots, look at California where things will get interesting though. While the feds will not, state governments, on the other hand, are a whole different matter.

[Treo]

63. The government is broke right now

when you're several trillion dollars in debt, you're broke. The more money they print the more worthless it becomes. My city is laying off cops and fire and sending city workers home early to try to save money. The most believable SHTF scenario I've ever heard involves the government going broke and simply turning of the lights.

Spell check doesn't like S H T F

[nadinbrzezinski]

71. Never, ever confuse local and state government with federal

for many complex reasons in the International Arena the US government will not go broke, even if by any other definition it is.

We may even get the IMF treatment, which is all but nice, but broke... the world community will not allow the reserve currency to go broke. So until the Reserve Currency changes, the US dollar is safe... or as safe as that can be.

Now watch for indicators, and rumblings, of changes in the reserve currency. Those have started in some quarters.

[Treo]

76. I am not a student of economics

I liken it to the housing crunch.UBER SIMPLIFIED HERE BUT the banks loaned money to a bunch of people who had no business borrowing it. These people got in so far over their heads that their whole pay check wouldn't even cover the interest on what they owed. Not sure who the bank is (maybe China) but the folks that borrowed waaaay more than they should have is America. and as more and more people lose jobs the government loses tax revenue. the more money America prints the more worthless it is. What do you think will happen when inflation gets to the point that a soldier's entire pay check won't feed his family for a month? You can say the government won't ever go broke but when all the people that work for it do it's going to stop.

Even if the government "isn't broke" that's not going to help the guy in Colorado Springs who can't get the police to come to his house because they're spread out too thin.

I'm sure there are a dozen things wrong with my hypothesis but , bottom line, America is in deep Kim Chi

[nadinbrzezinski]

77. Actually you are, micro economics

or local level economics.

Not the macro stuff.

Trust me, if the Federal Government declares bankruptcy it will make things in Denver right now look like a walk in the park.

And it is not just private banks, some of whom should be broken down for economic reasons. Too big to fail has its own dangers, but we owe billions to China. China, the UN and a couple others are making rumblings of moving the reserve currency to something other than the dollar. When that happens it is time to run for hte hills.

After all, one reason the Federal Reserve CAN print so-much money is the fact that we are a reserve currency and the National bank of insert country here, has its reserves in US Dollars. Some countries are starting to move to Euros or when we are lucky just have some in Euros.

I am talking macro economics, and the international finance system... a whole different level of wax than you are.

Now reality is the guy in Denver that calls 9.11 and gets a busy tone... also is against paying taxes... and cannot connect the dispatcher to the officer and his taxes. Trust me, met some of those idiots here in San Diego... hell one is a state senator... wants to cut taxes to zero... seems unable to comprehend his pay comes from my taxes.

[Treo]

78. I'm not meaing we should cut taxes

We need to quit spending money we don't have

[nadinbrzezinski]

79. Well at this time we actually need to spend money we don't have

to get out of the economic hole. That is Keynes and it worked in the Great Depression, and it has worked now. After that we can balance the budget. I suspect they will start that process in about two years or so. Also remember, it is not the Dems who are the ones who got us into this hole...

And I know you do not mean that about taxes, but some folks do. Enough that cannot make that connection between taxes and services at the micro level.

[Treo]

80. First understand I really don't understand how all this works

second I don't blame the Dems it was George the second who signed the first stimulus bill I hope you're right about getting us out of this hole but I don't have a lot of faith.

I'm willing to listen but I doubt very seriously I can add anything to the discussion

[nadinbrzezinski]

81. I suggest readying Paul Krugman.

He keeps his books at a very simple level and are a good introduction of economics.

[Treo]

82. Will do Thanks NT

[Odin2005]

62. Like I always say, people need to read up on how hate radio triggered the Rwandan Genocide.

:scared:

[conscious evolution]

67. yes they do.

They also need to read up on Josef Geobbels and Julius Striecher.

Poisoning peoples minds thru the media is considered a crime against humanity and a crime against the peace,btw.And while we have the first amendmemnt to protect free speech we have also signed many treatys which gives the goverment the right to prosecute crimes against humanity and crimes against the peace.

[tblue37]

72. Nadin, may I ask you why you always use "readying" as a subsitute for "reading"? Does it have

a special meaning here on DU?

[nadinbrzezinski]

73. ESL and dyslexia

:-)

[tblue37]

74. Oh--I thought it was on purpose and I was missing out on another

item from the DU dictionary.

[nadinbrzezinski]

75. Nah it is just me, it reads right

to my addled mind.

Hell one thing I do regularly is use seat when I should use sit.

Teh instead of the...

Now teh my word processor flags regularly...

[TxRider]

48. Statistically speaking

It would be more likely statistically that he was killed by someone he knows, for some reason, and this is a weak coverup.

Most people murdered are killed by people they know, by a very big majority, often intimately.

As for drug people, they might want the body to be found to avoid a mass search for a missing man with people and choppers flying combing the woods and fields.

Or it could be a rabid Beck fan.

No denial here, I'm just into speculation on events like this, I'll wait until the cops speak up, which they will in time. Until then believing anything much less acting on it is not appropriate.

[Common Sense Party]

55. That's true. I had also considered the someone-he-knew theory.

It's very possible. But, nothing is known yet.

[Ozymanithrax]

54. Indicators of a pattern...Historical Lynching photos.

Lynching in America

Click on the links.
See what happened in America.
Think about what happened in that graveyard.
It is all there.

[Odin2005]

60. K&R!

[voc]

64. There is a definite pattern.

Enjoy reading your posts.Someone upthread mentioned Radio Rwanda, that comes to mind.

[nadinbrzezinski]

70. Yes Radio Rwanda or Father Coughlin, comes to mind

And I wish more Americans knew who Father Coughlin was.

[rbrnmw]

65. The sheer ignorance of these folks make them even more dangerous

I fear for this Country they are domestic terrorists and are no different than any other terrorist