Police are firing pepper spray canisters on University of Pittsburgh students

[PA Democrat]

Phipps Conservatory, the site of tonight's G20 gathering is adjacent to the University of Pittsburgh campus where my son is a student.

He said that protesters had broken windows on a number of windows on businesses on campus and had set a couple of dumpsters on fire. The riot police moved in and the problem is that the entire scene unfolded right in their middle of campus, on the lawn of the Cathedral of Learning, the Hillman Library, the student union, dorms, etc.

There were more students than protesters on the scene observing what was unfolding right in the middle of their campus. My son said the police were firing gas cannisters at the crowd which included a lot of innocent bystanders. Now they are firing rubber bullets into the crowd and local reporters are saying they are now using tear gas. That's when my son and his friends ran, but the entire campus is under siege and reeks of the gas cannisters set off all over campus.

[A R S]

1. Local News says it seems to be clearing up.

How does it look?

[PA Democrat]

4. No. Something else is going on right outside the Towers dorms.

I think a lot of students will look at cops differently after tonight. My son didn't know anyone who was participating in the protests and said he and his friends were not happy with the vandalism of some of the protesters, but he said he was shocked by the police response.

[EFerrari]

2. I hope the kids are okay, PA Democrat. n/t

[A R S]

3. It's unfortunate that the police don't seem to care about innocent people.

And assume that everyone in the crowd is a protester gone violent.

[avaistheone1]

16. Most of the people are usually innocent.

[PA Democrat]

5. Some of the students were really mad about the pepper spray gas

cannisters and were picking them up and throwing them back at the cops. It's a bad situation because the cops are right in the busiest part of campus.

[Ignis]

40. +1

...And I feel like an ass for not wishing them safety earlier. :blush:

[PA Democrat]

6. Police fired tear gas into both ends of a sky walk connecting campus buildings

and people were jumping to the street below. The police are also using that high pitched siren. Lower campus is on complete lock down. My son lives on upper campus and some people he knows are not able to get back into their own dorms and are looking for somewhere else to spend the night.

[roody]

14. Just like Honduras!

[JVS]

32. That's fucked up. But if this is the skywalk over forbes, is it possible to jump out?

that one is enclosed. Or did they build a new one?

[robinlynne]

61. That skywalk is tiny. you're talking serious overkill.

[Liberal_in_LA]

7. omg

[G_j]

8. you can check these links for updates from the protests

Indy media Pittsburgh:

http://indyPGH.org

and: http://g20media.org/

[BlooInBloo]

9. Sigh. Fucking cops.

[Saboburns]

10. I've been to the Pitt campus a few times

And I gotta say this, I hope I don't get flamed for it.

But.

Pitt's campus isn't in the best part of town.

I always thought they picked swankyass places for G20. When I heard it was in Pittsburgh I never figured it would be near Pitt.

Makes me wrong.

[scheming daemons]

26. Being a West Virginian, it's understandable that you have no idea about Oakland

Oakland is extremely safe.

And there's more violence in Morgantown on a typical Saturday football day than at Pitt during an entire year.

[Robb]

55. Self-delete

TOTALLY misread. :D

[robinlynne]

62. I went to U of Pitt. You don't know Pittsburgh well.

[Snazzy]

11. NYT, for example, vaguely gets into why people protest at para 13

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/25/us/25pittsburgh.html?em

If it bleeds it ledes (sic via me perhaps). But it doesn't take much of a cynic to note that wherever g20 appears = big funding for local yokels. And, surprise, they use it, now with a sonic tune.

Thanks for the report. I wish that there was a more unified non-violent message from all at these things, some how.

Hope your son lives and learns and doesn't get hurt. Cheers.

[PA Democrat]

15. He wasn't protesting, just an observer.

In fact there were at best a few hundred protesters, and most were non-violent. There were only a handful of people who committed the vandalism. Even the local reporters on the scene remarked that the crowd the police were firing tear gas and rubber bullets at were not the protesters (they had run and dispersed) but just student bystanders.

[Snazzy]

20. that seems the story at most of these

trumped up or hyped in action violent protesters and agent provocateurs in some cases. Then the melee is the coverage, drowning out message or preventing message except that local PD need money for more riot gear.

I'm jaded on whole thing and tired at the moment, sorry if inarticulate. Didn't mean to misconstrue your son's role. And truly thanks for the report.

[ProudDad]

12. Here's a chance to vent

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6624748

[ProudDad]

13. One good thing

Might get some enlightened students out of this experience.

Nothing like a whiff of tear gas to increase the powers of concentration concerning the USAmerikan Empire and it's storm troopers...

[Ignis]

31. +1

Sometimes you need a smack in the face to wake up. :patriot:

[Kievan Rus]

17. Stay away from cops....

after all, they're pigs...watch out for the swine flu!

[paulsby]

19. just love that bigotry

so typical

[Subdivisions]

18. '...protesters had broken windows' and '...set a couple of dumpsters on fire'

This is the exact MO of agent provocateurs at the Seattle WTO and in Quebec at the SPP protest and in Denver at the Democratic National Convention ETA: I'm not sure of the extent of window breaking/dumpster burning in Quebec and Denver. However, there were agent provocateurs present and here's a video of them getting called out in Quebec: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=St1-WTc1kow.

[distantearlywarning]

21. The protesters

They vandalized some beloved local businesses in Oakland, the neighborhood where Pitt is located.

I'm a grad student at Pitt, and many of my friends are associated with the university. I also want to add that the people I know here in the city are typically quite liberal - I live in an ivory tower environment, and I literally don't know *anybody* who is a freeper type, and almost everyone I know voted for Obama last fall. That being said, the 'burgher sentiment tonight on my social networking sites is very anti-protester, although admittedly not exactly pro-cop. Everyone is really, really angry that asshole people have come here to our city with the nominal goal of making a positive difference in the world, only to negatively impact us and our home for reasons that at this point aren't very clear. People are really upset about the protests right now.

I'm not feeling too sympathetic to the protester cause myself right now, honestly, after seeing pictures of the bashed-in windows of Pamela's, whose pancakes President Obama loves so much he imported them to the White House last Memorial Day. :cry:

I know this post won't be too popular here, because it doesn't fit the normative view of who's right and wrong in a protesters vs. police clash. But I thought I should let you all know that there is more than one side to this story. It's easy to complain about the police action when you don't live here and have to watch random people abusing things you know and love. :-(

[Efilroft Sul]

24. Actually, DEW, I think you nailed the sentiments of most people I know.

I live over in Baldwin, work in the South Hills, and your assessment of the situation is dead-on.

Still, let's see what the day brings. As of 8:45 a.m., I have nothing but choppers buzzing over my house.

[PA Democrat]

25. I don't support the tactics used by some (a small minority) of the protesters..

I have to wonder at the intentions of people who smash windows and damage private property because it does nothing to further their cause.

That said, I have a major problem with the way the police handled the situation based upon first hand accounts from my son and his friends who live on campus. They were angry at the damage done by the protesters, but by the end of the night they were more disgusted by the actions of the police.

The police were using something called a Long Range Acoustic Device (LRAD) on campus. The device emits sound at a frequency and volume that causes pain and disorientation and can permanently damage hearing. The LRAD had never been used on US soil until yesterday's protests let alone against a crowd that contained a high percentage of innocent bystanders.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Range_Acoustic_Device

The CO vapor gas that left most of the lower campus engulfed in an acrid haze affected more innocent students than protesters. At one point, even the local reporter from WPXI stated that the police were firing the gas cannisters and rubber bullets at a crowd of that contained no more than "about five" of the actual protesters, and was made up instead, of mostly students who were observing the events.

Yeah, I hate to see the damage done to the campus. Both my husband and I are Pitt alumni and we were sickened when we saw the first reports of the vandalism. But in all honesty, the broken windows are easily repaired. The bad feelings of many of the students toward the police will take much longer to repair.

[dropkickpa]

30. Both of my older brothers own businesses in Oakland

And many here are saying a broken window is an easy fix. Fuck you elitist bastards. This economy has been *very* tough on everyone, especially small business owners, and a single broken window to either one of their businesses would mean at least 1 bill not getting paid this month. They have already lost a ton of money this week due to the scarcity of customers due to the g-20, and one of my brothers decided not to open his shop at all yesterday or today due to the "protesters" posted plans to be on his street. That's a lot of money he's missing out on and his livlihood is in jeopardy because of these overpriveliged patchouli-stink fuckers who will go back to mommy and daddy's big subdivision houses when the weekend is over and crow on twitter with their iPhone's about how they "stuck it to the man" by throwing a brick through the window of a shop-owners business and caused hundreds of people to lose 3 days wages and possibly not be able to pay their bills and rent this month.

Pittsburghers are not impressed with these fucks, not at all, they're PISSED. They rampaged through residential areas causing messes and havoc (Lawrenceville, Polish Hill, Friendship, and Bloomfield are residential neighborhoods, they ran through there trashing the place behind themselves throwing garbage cans and dumpsters all over the place on the way to Oakland).

Pittsburghers support demonstration and marching and such (we DO have the one of the largest Labor Day parades in the country people, we are VERY pro-Union). What we don't support is dumb-fuckery.

The students were a bunch of fucking idiots for standing around being nebby as fuck not going back to their dorms making the situation worse. Plenty of students had good views from theirs windows without adding to the bad situation.

[PA Democrat]

34. Nice to see how some so eagerly embrace a police state.

The windows were broken by protesters from out of town, not students.

[dropkickpa]

39. Fuck off, I never said it was the students causing damage

I just said it was the dumbfuck Pitt students standing around like idiots making the situation worse. I've lived and worked in and around Oakland for the last 15 years and Pitt students are, by and large, a bunch of dumbfucks. I went to Pitt myself, and my opinion then was my fellow students were a bunch of dumbfucks.

"Oh gee, a bunch of cops are trying to clear out the idiots who were breaking windows and throwing bricks AT THE COPS. I'm gonna hang here with my budies and watch. Look, the cops are REPEATEDLY saying clear out to everyone for 3 HOURS. Oh look, now they're using smoke cannisters. Oh look, no is listening, now they're saying they will use pepper spray cannisters. Oh look, now they're using pepper spray cannisters. Wonder what I should do now? Mom is paying $7,000 a semester tuition + room and board for me to stay in a dorm 300 yards from here. The cops seem to be serious. I'm just going to keep standing RIGHT HERE an see what is going on along with my dumbfuck classmates."

The Oakland business owners, who are mostly small business owners, are very happy the police are there. I am happy the police are there. Things would have been a lot worse for them if they hadn't been there. You can speak from your nice safe place where your livelihood and childrens homes and food aren't dependent them.

You think your kid is just an innocent bystander, but your kid is a dumbfuck pitt student. Is he unable to recognize a situation that has the possibility to escalate and, oh, I don't know, get out of the fucking way? If he was standing on train tracks and saw a train coming from three miles away and got hit, would you get mad at the engineer? The cops were trying, non violently, for over 3 hours, to get the kids to disperse so they could get control of the "protesters" who were busting up Oakland but, being dumbfuck Pitt students, they were all unable to follow simple directions (this is why there is fencing on 5th ave, Pitt students don't know how to look both ways before crossing the street and were getting hit by buses).

[PA Democrat]

41. Nice mouth you've got there.

It goes well with your broad brush. Why don't you check out the video of the students who were tear gassed while INSIDE university property that I posted? Or justify the use of an LRAD device half the night? Where should those "dumbf*** Pitt students" have gone to escape the unbearable noise?

[dropkickpa]

42. Back to their dorm rooms 300 yards away "mom"

You can't hear the LRAD from their dorm rooms. The LRAD was positioned in Schenley Plaza, well away from the dorms where it would NOT have been heard. I am VERY familiar with the area, so you can't play that card with me. The LRAD was also used in residential areas in Lawrenceville and the residents there in their homes said it was not that bad at all, so don't go all, "Oh noes! It was all horribles!" with that one.

They were being dumbfuck rubberneckers and got hurt by wanting to be as close to the violence as they could get, like an idiot who sticks his hand in a sharks mouth and says "Hey, look at this!".

[PA Democrat]

45. Wrong. The LRAD could be heard all the way up the hill above the Peterson Events center.

The OC vapor and tear gas was set off inside university buildings and directly outside of dormatories. But I defer to your superior knowledge since you were obviously inside those dorm rooms and know that all of those "dumbf*** Pitt students" deserved what they got.

[dropkickpa]

52. It was not set off in buildings

The "stairwell" everyone is referring to is an outdoor stairwell, and no cannister was fired onto the stairwell, it was fired on the palza and street below the stairwell. The plaza outside Litchfield towers is, yep, OUTSIDE. The plaza outside Forbes Quad is, yep, OUTSIDE. If smoke drifts in on that crazy thing called WIND, well, wow, imagine that.

Outdoors, things echo. And there was more than one LRAD, so it may just be possible there was more than one beig used. Again, just because your kid was too dumb to get out of the way, don't go saying the cops, who were telling the kids for over 3 hours to disperse before they deployed any implements, were being overzealous. The kids had ample time to get their heads out of their asses.

[PA Democrat]

56. My "dumb kid" was guilty of the crime of trying to get back to his dorm on upper campus after

leaving the library. The cops shooting off tear gas and blocking the road didn't make it simple. Oh but wait, I'm sure that in your infinite wisdom that you and you alone know that he, like every other student on campus, is a "dumbf***" and deserves to be harassed with tear gas, LRAD sonic weapons and rubber bullets.

And that walkway that those kids got trapped inside is enclosed and was full of tear gas.

If your brothers' attitudes toward Pitt students is anything like yours, it's no wonder their business is hurting.

[dropkickpa]

59. It's the economy that is hurting small business owners

But you will refuse to believe that, too, I am sure.

Your son couldn't *possibly* have been standing around watching, he was at the library, mom. Classes let out at noon in the Cathedral, 4pm everywhere else (and MANY classes were completely cancelled by the profs). The knuckle-heads in Schenley Plaza RIGHT IN FRONT of Hillman Library didn't start up their crap in Oakland until 7:30-8:00pm at which point the lookie-loos popped up, and smoke cannisters and such didn't start until about 11:30-12:00. You're telling me he spent at least the entire 8 hours from class getting out until midnight in the library, completely oblivious and not doing one bit of lookee-loo? He didn't walk past any of it on his way down the hill to the library and think, "Hmm, maybe studying at Hillman ain't such a smart idea right now". I find that hard to believe. And naive on your part.

I'm sure your son is a shining beacon of studious purity, but he's a kid, and kids do dumb shit all the time, AND, here's the kicker, they may even embellish the truth to their mom's so they don't look so bad in the process. He may even *have* made a stop at the library at some point in the day or evening, too.

[PA Democrat]

63. Yes, once again you know everything. As owners of a small business

my husband and I are too stupid to see the effect the economy has had on our clients and our business just as you were so amazingly able to predict.

And yes, all Pitt students are complete "dumbf***s as you so eloquently put it and deserve to have LRAD weapons and tear gas and pepper spray fired at them.

And again, it's amazing how dead-on accurate you are about my naivete and my failings as a parent and my son's track record as a liar! I am indeed just another stupid "mom" who spoils little Johnny and lets him run wild on campus! Oh snap! The little liar has been planning this for DAYS. Last weekend when he was complaining about having difficulty getting a book that a prof had on reserve at the library he was really planning use that as an excuse to ...dare I even say it .... have a "lookee-loo" at the protests! OMG. You must read minds. You are so dead-on accurate!

And golly gee, I had NO idea that most classes were canceled yesterday. How did you know that I really meant to tell you that he spent 8 hours at the library even though I never said it. You are incredible!

And yes, you were absolutely right that the LRADs could not be heard inside of the dormitories because you are omniscient!

WOW! Did I miss anything? I bow before your intellectual and moral superiority!

[distantearlywarning]

48. Interesting how the police state didn't materialize at other protests around town

You know, like the one with the Tibetan monks who peacefully marched with their signs and didn't break things? They didn't end up tear gassed. Somehow the Pittsburgh police overlooked that golden opportunity to hurt nice innocent people. :eyes:

There was also a huge protest march from Pitt to downtown today, which was organized by legitimate people here in town who took "peace enforcers" along to make sure nobody destroyed things or became violent. I haven't seen the news or any video about it yet, but friends of mine who participated and who are working along the route have blogged that both sides were relatively well-behaved and they didn't see any tear gassing or excessive police-state type tactics present today. Again, if the police here are such fascist assholes, why would they miss such a great opportunity to harrass a huge mass of hippies this afternoon?

BTW, the poster who said that Pitt students by-and-large are a bunch of dumbfucks is kind of right. I've been down there for six years dealing with Pitt undergrads and a disturbingly large percentage of them *are* dumbfucks. Not all of them, and some of these kids undoubtably got caught in the situation. But I bet a lot of them were doing something they shouldn't have been doing, even if that was just standing around with their mouths open catching flies after the police asked them to disperse 25 times. And there is no doubt in my mind that some of them were being badly behaved, just like they do in Oakland every time a sports team wins a playoff game. The poster is also correct that it would have been easy for most students to avoid the chaos on Forbes avenue by simply returning to their dorm rooms or off-campus housing.

The moral of this story is: when you bring violence into your protest, violence is the message, and violence gets used against you. And you lose the moral high ground.

[PA Democrat]

54. Umm..... I clearly stated that I was opposed to violence and abhorred the vandalism.

I also did not refer to the police as fascist assholes, so please do not put words in my mouth. I think your fury over the jerks who were damaging property has impaired your judgment.

My problem is the use of collective punishment against innocent bystanders. You and other posters can refer to them as "dumbf***s" if it makes you feel better, but do you honestly believe that it is acceptable to use collective punishment against people for the mere "crime" of stupidity or being in the wrong place at the wrong time?

Should those students be used as guinea pigs while the police use a new sonic weapon (that can cause hearing loss) for the first time on US soil? Just how much punishment of innocent bystanders is acceptable? IMHO it's a very slippery slope.

Last night the police arrested a volunteer for the National Lawyer's Guild who was there as a volunteer observer despite the fact that he was not protesting and had documentation identifying him as a member of the NLG. There really was no moral high ground in the entire sordid mess.

[distantearlywarning]

35. I posted about this in a thread in LBN too

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4076835#4077044

I also mentioned the fact that we have many non-violent protests in Pittsburgh and mass crowd events in which the police are polite and patient. I've marched in a few myself and never had a problem with the cops. AND...the students in Oakland are notorious for causing major problems when they get all riled up about things after dark - they set shit on fire and turn cars over when sports teams win - so I can't feel too sorry for them either that they got the short end of the stick this time. Nor do I think for one second that the vandals were "government plants", unless you want to believe that the government plants also come to town every time the Steelers win the Superbowl.

I don't support, and most of the Pittsburghers I know don't support people who protest by vandalizing small local businesses. Not only are these shop owners out money and time in a not-so-great economy, many locals (including students who work in these neighborhoods to support themselves while they are in school) are losing a paycheck this week because their place of employment is trashed or had to shut down to avoid being trashed. Not to mention all the homeowners in these East End neighborhoods, most of whom are proud working class liberals and working hard to improve their neighborhoods, who now have to pick up the pieces after selfish little brats decided to take on "the man".

Way to support the little people, asshole anarchists. Way to support local economies and fight globalization. :eyes:

[Occulus]

47. Just as long as you acknowledge that there may be agents in the crowd

who are the ones actually encouraging and inciting this behavior. They've been caught doing so at these types of protests before, and the tactic has been used for forever.

Mind, I'm not saying that is the case here, merely saying that it's a possibility that should be considered.

[PA Democrat]

22. At one point gas was fired into both ends of the sky walk pictured

in this photo. Those are STUDENTS watching what is happening right outside their residence halls, right outside one of the main dining facilities on campus. LRAD devices which emit a very painful high pitched sound were also used on the campus.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Range_Acoustic_Device

[Orwellian_Ghost]

23. K&R

Fuck the G-20 robber barons.

[Ignis]

27. Haven't you heard the authoritarian meme du jour?

There was absolutely NO alternative for the police other than to fire tear gas / pepper spray / battlefield sonic weapons into mixed crowds of protesters and bystanders.

Nope, no other way to resolve the situation at all. :shrug:

Look at what 8 years of Bushit has done to our collective psyche. :banghead:

[PA Democrat]

28. You Tube link to video of police trapping students firing tear gas in stairwell

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bopZT_zhwj4&feature=player_embedded

[Ignis]

29. Nice to see that they're still using "kettling" to increase violence.

But again...some here at DU think this bullshit is the ONLY possible response for the police. :shrug: Why do you think that is?

[JVS]

37. Good to see the pigs recognize bystanders when they see them

:sarcasm:

[Kievan Rus]

44. That video of those thugs marching down Forbes goes good with "the Imperial March"

They really do look like a bunch of jack-booted thugs. And acted like it to when they harassed innocent bystanders.

[distantearlywarning]

51. Did you see the video of the masked anarchists in Lawrenceville?

They were scary in a similar way, with their black clothing and jackboots. And how about them harrassing the innocent bystanders working in the places which were assaulted? Did you see any of the interviews of those people on Forbes (who were also mostly students trying to earn a little money on a Thursday night) talking about how frightened they were of the violent protesters?

[KG]

33. but, but, we don't live in a police state! well, so much for the right to peacable assemble

[distantearlywarning]

36. The key word here is "peaceable"

You probably didn't hear about the other dozen calm and lawful protests in Pittsburgh that didn't end in tear gas and arrests over the last few days. Funny how the police state didn't seem to make it down there to those protests.

[KG]

38. see post #28

[distantearlywarning]

49. I never said there weren't alternatives for the police

I'm saying this isn't a case of sweet nice innocent protesters vs. evil fascist cops. It's not that black and white.

[blindpig]

43. How do we keep these police from rioting?

Every fucking time some people attempt to do some of that 'democracy' stuff the police riot, is there a pattern here? Do they hate democracy?

[Kievan Rus]

46. Make all police officers "at will" employees

I usually don't agree with the "at will" doctrine (America is the only industrialized country to use it), but this would be a seriously good situation in which to use it. Misbehavior such as this is uncalled for.

[distantearlywarning]

50. Bullshit.

There's been plenty of that democracy stuff in the 'burgh in the last few days that didn't involve any rioting on anyone's part or hater cops.

The pattern is, when people act violently and break things, the police get upset. So do the rest of us who live in and love the city of Pittsburgh.

[backwoodsbob]

57. how do we keep them from rioting?

maybe stop throwing bricks at them?

[G_j]

58. back

already?

[The Straight Story]

53. This is OK only if it is against rw'ers and/or fundies

:evilgrin:

[Stephanie]

60. Wow

I think you have an exclusive on this story. That's horrible.

[PA Democrat]

64. It is horrible, but what's worse is the people making excuses for the police and blaming

the students. My son said that they were discussing the protests in one of his classes today and one of the student's roommates ended up in the hospital in respiratory distress after she had an asthma attack when the police threw a cannister of gas onto the balcony of their dorm. I am sickened by people who are supporting the use of collective punishment against innocent bystanders.

[Kievan Rus]

65. There's a lot of Rudy Giuliannis in this world