what we are witnessing is the death spasms of white rule in america.

[KG]

looking past the idiotic signage, i sought any sign of racial diversity in the teabagger crowd. none spotted yet.

and despite the denials, from both sides, this white guy senses an undeniable current of racism (for lack of a better term) in these protests, not merely against the prez., but all those that will upset current comfort level and sense of privilege.

they also realize they're looking into a uncertain economic future, and won't allow themselves to believe they were led to this point by leaders they were sure were on 'their side'.

that's why they're finally out on the streets. many interviewed can't even coherently express what they're protesting. but it's no surprise their numbers are few and their leaders are in all actuality cowardly, powerless, charlatans who couldn't be bothered to make an appearance.

their time 'in charge' is almost over, america is hurtling toward a sea change.

JMNSHO.

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[KG]

2. nice of you to provide a perfect example of what i'm talking about.

you remain willfully ignorant of how you've been used. enjoy your reverie. it's not going to last much longer.

now, bugger off, freeptard.

[malaise]

3. Then why didn't they protest during those eight years of Bush

Why were there no signs about the cost of the Iraq of Afghanistan wars?
The purpose of the tea parties is for corporate financed delusional losers to demonstrate to everyone that they are sore losers who refuse to come to terms with the fact that Obama and Democrats won the November election fair and square.

Health insurance is not an industry. They don't make a fucking thing. They are money changers - middle men grabbing people's money for no good reason except accumulating wealth for themselves and their cronies who are mostly in the Republican party.

[CrispyQ]

4. Damn straight!

:applause:

[ixion]

14. exactly

very well said. :applause:

[timtom]

124. I swear!

That's EXACTLY what my subject line would have said!

[OneGrassRoot]

23. +1. n/t

[OneGrassRoot]

25. +1. n/t

[Kahuna]

29. Well said, my friend!

:applause:

[Mari333]

33. wow you got a live one on here

not for long.

[malaise]

45. Flowers and pizza

in any order :rofl:

[HysteryDiagnosis]

36. Daayaaammmm. What you said. n/t

[myrna minx]

46. .

:applause:

[TorchTheWitch]

50. not all industries make something

There are plenty of service industries that are perfectly legitimate. The health insurance industry could have been if they weren't such greedy blood suckers. They could have worked honestly by providing reasonably priced policies that paid out reasonable claims and they would do quite well just as the health insurance companies in other countries manage to do. But instead they decided to be greedy and our government decided to let them do whatever the fuck they wanted, so instead of providing a legitimate service they became nothing more than grossly wealthy evil companies that just suck in premium dollars at extraordinary rates that businesses are required by law be purchased and give as little actual service as they can get away with.

All insurance industries have a legitimate reason for being in order to provide a legitimate needed/wanted service. The problem with the insurance industry is the same as the problem with all other businesses... when they are deregulated to the point that they can rip off their customers. The state of our industries that rip off their customers is a greater failing of our government because ANY business will engage in nefarious operations for the sake of greater profits when our government allows it and/or ignores it.

[pokercat999]

53. I've been VERY skeptical and down on President Obama

about giving up on the public option and the give away of a huge windfall to the insurance industry. I think within a couple of years after this disaster of a healthcare bill gets passed we will have to come back and address the new problems created by the legislation.

A future solution to the problems we are about to create is to declare health insurance a public utility (and if health insurance is mandated by the legislation it will be) and regulate the price and profit of the industry. Since auto insurance is mandated by state governments these companies should become "utilities" also.

[TorchTheWitch]

121. I'm more afraid that it WON'T be readdressed later

and that people by then will just have accepted that by law they have to have insurance even though they'll have to chose between paying their premium and eating. This "reform" is a shameful gift to the health insurance industry and will financially devistate most middle class people as we're clinging by our fingernails already from paycheck to paycheck.

I'm beyond disgusted that it's Dems that came up with this SHIT excuse of "reform".

[Raineyb]

80. There is NOTHING about the insurance "industry" as it relates to

health care that is at all legitimate. They take money out of your pocket then find any excuse to get out of their end of the bargain knowing that death is the end result. Any government can do what they do with a hell of a lot less overhead which means more money going to pay for the care of people rather than shareholder's dividends, excessive CEO salaries, and over a million dollars a day in lobbying efforts in order to circumvent the attempts of actual people to get their representatives to listen to them.

Health insurance is a racket on par with the mob, except with the mob when you pay them protection money they actually protect your property which is more than the health insurance leeches do.

[TorchTheWitch]

120. oh bullshit

In the absense of health care being provided by the government, of COURSE there is a legitimate need for private health insurance industries. Would you really actually prefer that there be no government provided healthcare AND no private health insurance industry???? Would you really expect that with no government health care there should be no private health insurance industry so that all of us would just have to pay for our health care out of pocket????

If you had bothered to read my post, you'd know that I abhor the state of the blood sucking health insurance companies and remark that they are that way because the government has allowed them to be. Just as all other blood sucking businesses in all sorts of industries have been allowed by the government to be that way.

Liability auto insurance is necessary to protect the people and cars you share the road with, and it should be mandated (as it now is)... or do you think that the people you share the road with should just be shit out of luck if you damage their car or them personally by hitting them? Collision auto insurance is necessary for those companies that loaned you the money to buy your car in order to protect the collateral of their loan... or do you think they should be just shit out of luck in getting paid back if you wrap the car the lien holder paid for around a tree? Same thing for home owner's insurance, home rental insurance, life insurance, traveler's insurance and all sorts of other insurance.

People DO want to be able to purchase insurance to protect themselves from extraordinary out of pocket expense that can be financially devistating, and there obviously is a need for all sorts of insurance providing businesses so that people don't have to gamble with their every day lives to the point of financial ruin. The reason that insurance companies - particularly the health sector - have become blood suckers ripping off their customers is because our government for a VERY long time has LET them.

[ctaylors6]

65. I heard a lot of griping

during the Bush years, esp the later Bush years, about overspending by Congress and Bush. Every other person (except one) in my family is republican. They didn't complain about the cost of the wars, that is true. But they complained about deficits and over-spending and lack of fiscal responsibility and Bush never vetoing a spending bill. I also remember reading articles too by some conservative writers about overspending during the Bush years. That and immigration made a lot of people on the right mad. Again, I agree the complaining was not about the wars though since those were supported by most of them. A lot of my relatives don't like the stimulus money going to banks and insurance companies either. They aren't wealthy and, like many here, don't understand why the rich people who screwed the economy are getting all that money. In fact, I worry sometimes that people are overlooking that part of the protests by the tea partiers (at least those tea partiers that aren't so nutty).
As far as the protesters being corporate finance losers I'd be very interested to see demographic info on those protesting. One of my cousins was listening to a song on country radio the other day and it was about the banks and insurance companies ripping people off. And I remember that the exit polls from the presidential election didn't support such a clear rich=republican split anymore. cnn showed:

$50-75,000 (21% of voters): Obama 48%; McCain 49%; Other 3%

$75-100,000 (15% of voters): Obama 51%; McCain 48%; Other 1%

$100-150,000 (14%): Obama 48%; McCain 51%; Other 1%

$150-200,000 (6%): Obama 48%; McCain 50%; Other 2%

$200,000 or More (6%): Obama 52%; McCain 46%; Other 2%

[DLnyc]

68. What about under $50,000?

The brackets you show only cover 62% of the voters, by your figures. Since Obama got somewhere over 53% of the popular vote, my guess is his percent among the the under-$50,000 bracket must be at least 55 or 56. Could you perhaps provide a link to your source? I would be interested to see other numbers.

[ctaylors6]

78. link

Yes of course, that was heavily weight toward Obama. http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/results/polls/#USP00p1

To respond to others, I know they didn't protest in the form of marching. I'm sorry if I implied that. I was just trying to make the point that the other side was ramping up on certain issues before Obama was elected. For many people there opinions of "wrong direction" didn't start in Nov 2008.

[DLnyc]

98. Interesting. Thanks.

[malaise]

71. They did not protest against Bush

It is that simple.

[bdamomma]

137. no one has said crap about Bush, damn stupid man he should

be in jail. :hi:

[sendero]

72. Griping and articles..

... yes, street protests, no.

[Richard D]

75. Stockholm Syndrome. N/T

[Raineyb]

79. +1

:applause:

[Kadie]

82. Awesome Post!

:applause:

[JerseygirlCT]

101. Gamblers, really

Or more accurately, the ones who get to run the game.

More like the three-card monte guy on the street corner.

[BrklynLiberal]

111. Standing ovation......

:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

[eShirl]

7. so it's only coincidence that racists are also teabaggers?

[Ecumenist]

9. Interesting comment......Where were there concerns during Dubya's"administration"?

They didn't seem to have a problem with the last 8 years of economic desruction but they're protesting against the Guys who have a leviathan level disaster to clean up and who's only been on office for 8 months....Yeah, you must be right. Enjoy your Stay, Oneiros. :hi:

[bullimiami]

41. they were perfectly happy to follow their white xtian conservative moron

off whatever cliff he led them to. no questions asked.

its a pitiful shame they are so indoctrinated they can never believe the extent they are being used by the old boy corporate crowd.

[lunatica]

13. Your pathetic host Glen Beck never even showed up

to that nostalgia party for that America you all pine for.

[fasttense]

19. So where were these sudden fiscal conservatives when Ronny Raygun and the bushes were

borrowing such huge quantities from Communist China that we are still paying on Raygun's debt?

And you consider insurance an industry? The industry is provided by the doctors, nurses, labs and hospitals NOT by the uber wealth CEOs of insurance corporations. Insurance CEOs are merely middle men who skim off our hard earned dollars to satiate their never ending greed.

And the Teabagging does have a purpose, though muddled and confused. The purpose is to keep the uber wealthy elite who make billions from the sick and suffering in power. They don't want change because they fear their lords and masters sitting by the pool waiting on their dividend checks may have to pay their fair share.

Your ridiculous fear of our government is misplaced. WE THE PEOPLE are the government. And that is the part that your lords and masters don't like. They want to continue to control WE THE PEOPLE by keeping the government weak and inefficient. That way they can con and steal even more money from the idiots doing the Teabagging.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

38. Bravo, well said indeed. n/t

[goclark]

40. A Winner!

"And the Teabagging does have a purpose, though muddled and confused. The purpose is to keep the uber wealthy elite who make billions from the sick and suffering in power. They don't want change because they fear their lords and masters sitting by the pool waiting on their dividend checks may have to pay their fair share. "

So right you are and IMO, the fact that Obama is Black is their way of being Bullies. They seem to be be fairly successful because they are called exactly what they want to be called "Racist."

They wear it as a badge of honor.

[polichick]

21. The only ones protesting that are too stupid to know they're being used...

...by the ignorant racist sociopaths vomiting on the radio and Fox News day in and day out.

[iwillalwayswonderwhy]

30. So where were they

In the last fucking 8 years?

[saigon68]

37. WOW that was fast -------- Enjoy your stay OOPS

[HysteryDiagnosis]

39. The stone could have also read.... "I told you I

was sick" since we are discussing healthcare and or the lack of it.

[Cirque du So-What]

44. Five whole posts

and now gophers are delivering your mail!

Was it worth it? Wasting a perfectly good Sunday morning as an internet troll? For what? To prove to the world that you're a clueless dweeb who gets off by offending strangers on the internet? Go finish your Cheetos, whistledick!

[Bluzmann57]

56. Please answer a question or two

Before you get booted. Who was the President when a lot of industry left our country? And what exactly do you mean when you say "if you're racist, you'll see racism as an explanation"? Are all the people who the kkk lynched racist as well? I'm sorry, I'm just having trouble wrapping my head around your post. Now I admit I'm not the smartest person in the world, so maybe you can enlighten me here.

[Bluzmann57]

59. Waiting...waiting...

Still waiting for answers. Something tells me that there are no answers coming from this character.
I am going to sit back, read the morning paper and have a cup of tea. Maybe after that, there will be some answers. But it isn't likely. Freeper, you have a nice life and don't forget to tell your pals to have a nice day too. But quite frankly, I am not sure that it's possible for your ilk to have any pleasantries. You people are just plain ol' nasty.

[Bluzmann57]

90. Oh well

I really didn't expect an answer. Farewell freeper. Good riddance.

[rockymountaindem]

61. You're hillarious

"Killing what little industry we have left via nationalization". Where the hell have you been lo the past 20 years? American industry has been beat up because of outsourcing, which you and your crew have either encouraged through your pro-corporate policies or totally ignored. What percentage of the US economy, specifically the manufacturing sector, has been nationalized? Hardly any. What corporate boards have been replaced by government execs? None.

So, as usual for you teabaggers - big time fail.

[elocs]

5. To paraphrase Yogi, "It ain't dead until it's dead".

We would dance at its demise and celebrate prematurely at our peril.

[KG]

8. it ain't dead, yet.

it's wounded and dangerous. but it's mortally wounded.

[elocs]

12. I still wouldn't do any dancing yet and I don't believe it will ever be completely dead.

It appeals to an element of human nature that can become less powerful, but it will always be with us. Waiting.

[Hannah Bell]

6. look at who funded obama's campaign & see who the boss is.

[Karenina]

76. BINGO! See also: ThomWV's post #57.

[blindpig]

127. exactly

follow the money......

[KG]

10. unrecs! quite flattering!

[elocs]

16. At this moment your thread is only a half hour old. Why pay attention to UnRecs at this early time?

By my responding to your thread I kicked it up in its forum regardless if I gave it a Rec or not. Ironically, those who do UnRec it have to kick it to do so.

I heartily wish that DUers would stop obsessing about the Recs or UnRecs that their new threads get. If it is trolls giving the UnRecs, then the love to have their action pointed out.

[KG]

24. just goofin'. i'm rarely moved to start a thread. i just thought it funny it immediately got unrecs.

[elocs]

32. It's only early on that you ever really notice UnRecs.

I rarely start threads either. I have posted an OP that I thought had something to say and was well written, but only received a couple of responses. There are people here at DU who could start a thread saying only, "I Farted" and it would get 7 Recs in no time at all as well as numerous responses on how clever the OP was.

[Chemisse]

34. Part of it is the time of day

My husband occasionally starts a thread, but it is always at around 4 am. And he wonders why he gets few responses.

[opihimoimoi]

11. White Rule was in effect for 230 years.....and.. did a good job cept for the past 40 years.

During which time much of the Capital built up was slowly lost, mis spent....

W Bush did the most damage due to cronyism, poor decisions, Deception....

The constant lies took a GOP Toll....2 lost elections is so telling

Its time for a Chinaman, a Kimm Chee, a Brown, a Black, etc to earn a spot on the Ticket and taken series ...

Obama is such a time....AND....by GOP Standards, President Obama is OVERQUALIED

[KG]

15. white rule did a good job for the white ruling class.

the rest of us, not so much.

[ixion]

17. it did a good job? you mean like when

we slaughtered Native Americans and stole their land?

Or when we used Chinese slavery to build the railroads?

Or African slavery to build the East Coast?

Or maybe it was all those children working 18 hours a day for pennies. Yeah, maybe that was where they were doing a good job.

I won't say that it's all been bad. There have been some very noble moments in history. But overall, the white guys running the show have been under-handed and ruthless for the most part, in my opinion.

[opihimoimoi]

22. I must agree with your samples....maybe I shoulda used the term SURVIVED...lol

Domination = exploitation = suppression = retardation = Stagnation.

[ixion]

27. yep, you're spot on there

I think survived -- got lucky -- is right there. :hi:

[HysteryDiagnosis]

42. I like the way the Brits treated the colonies in America not to mention

how they treated people who lived "next door" to them. The Irish have many stories to tell.

http://www.nde.state.ne.us/SS/irish/unit_2.html

[ixion]

47. exactly

and the way they treated many (most? all?) of their colonies in their days of empire.

It's a long, ugly list of atrocities.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

49. They are our most trusted allies don't forget. n/t

[ixion]

54. yes, apparently all it takes is a nice Fight to the Death

to make the best of buddies.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

55. Schoolyard fun... nobody goes home until someone is bleeding

from somewhere... and remember the little spat with GB was about "taxes". Funny that.

[Dutch]

66. Ah, nothing like a good wallow in white liberal guilt.

It shows how right-on we are, but because it can't actually achieve anything, there's totally no pressure involved. Awesome. Oh how riddled with guilt I feel that my great-great-great-great-great grandfather worked fifteen hours a day in a factory to further line the pockets of the same guy who was exploiting native people of imperial possessions.

And it's even better when you bring the British into it- as it's always fun to bash foreigners, but they're enough like us that we don't have to feel guilty about it!

[HysteryDiagnosis]

89. I love foreigners.... it's the people who rise to power in those

foreign lands I care little for. If I had my druthers, I'd spend time in dozens of foreign countries just to enjoy the populace.

[Raineyb]

81. For whom? I'm sure there are a lot of people who aren't white who'd

differ with you vehemently.

[morgan2]

18. white rule isn't going anywhere

Rich white men own this country. Middle class whites blame their problems on minorities, minorities blame their problem on white people.

[KG]

48. money might still pull the strings, but the puppets at the end will be more ethnically diverse.

[Obamanaut]

20. I think that you are right, but they will never say it out loud. They

will all use the same theme that is used in response #1 - concern for future debt. It is concern for future events or change, but it has nothing to do with the debt.

Rec to offset one of the un.

[watrwefitinfor]

52. When they accuse Obama of being a socialist

or a communist or even a fascist (read "national" socialist) they are announcing their racism, because to them socialism is nothing more and nothing less than taking away from them (money, jobs, health care) and giving what belongs to them to people of color. You will never convince them otherwise.

This is an extention of why they hated welfare and why they always imagined and/or depicted welfare mothers as only black women. They felt this so strongly it didn't even matter to them if their own daughter and her children might one day be in a position to need financial assistance they couldn't give them.

Anyone who doesn't understand that this is what they mean is doomed to lack of understanding the whole teabagger-birther-deather-astroturf-fundy movemewnt and the sentiments people like Beck and Limbaugh are preying and building on. This is how they are able to demonize ACORN and any other black majority organization they may target. In their minds now ACORN is just another bunch of (evil, crooked) black people trying to get what rightfully belongs to (honest, christian) white people like these ignorant demonstrators.

Those guys (Beck, Limbaugh, et al.) and republicans in general are perfectly aware of this and how to use it to further their purposes. And of course the Ron Paulers have now glommed onto it, and the media continues to legitimize it and uncritically broadcast it to the masses.

All this is very early Nazi-like, in that they have found their target. Their outrage will only grow until/unless something is done to counter it.

Wat

[raccoon]

130. Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner.

"because to them socialism is nothing more and nothing less than taking away from them (money, jobs, health care) and giving what belongs to them to people of color. You will never convince them otherwise."

[The Backlash Cometh]

26. When they said that it was the end of the world, they were right.

It was the end of their world. I just don't understand why people can't see them for what they are. Everything is based on race, and most of it doesn't make sense when you put a microscope to it, because you have white Italian Americans rah-rahing along with white protestants, when you know that those white protestants, in their little mental enclaves, would be just as discriminatory against Italian Americans given the chance.

That's why I don't understand why they don't see this as a last opportunity to establish the kind of precedent they would want to see if they were the minorities. Because statistics show that soon they will be. You heard it here first. Affirmative Action is here to stay once white Americans see the protections it will offer them once they are in the minority.

[Kahuna]

28. Absolutely. nt

[ThomWV]

31. White rule is alive and healthy in this country and isn't anywhere near dieing

What you are saying just feeds the angry mobs. It is an absurdly senseless statement to say that "white rule" is on its death bed as well. Just what is this white rule, how is it alive, and just what about it is dieing? If you mean that white people used to have all the money and made all the decisions but that is somehow changing then you need to take a look around - white people not only still have all the money, in fact they now have more than they ever did before, and anyone who thinks they don't make all the rules isn't paying much attention.

[bullimiami]

43. i think white rule, the old power, entrenched now in the republican party, does see

its power threatened and that is exactly what this is all about.

they are bringing up their pawns to fight on the front lines.

[ThomWV]

57. Actually I think you have it exactly backwards - its not entrenched power that is afraid

It is not the entrenched power that is threatened - its the little white guys who thought they had some say in how their lives would play out who are finding out that's not how its going to work out (and never was how it was going to work out). The only thing you are seeing now is successful redirection of their hatred toward the people they hated in the first place.

But as for the power of a handful of very rich very white men or the much greater power of hundreds of thoudsands of white millionaires well seated in every boardroom in the nation, well, that sort of entrenched white power is very much alive and healthy.

[ecstatic]

60. Agreed nt

[GeorgeGist]

35. Fear Not.

To avoid disruption, NoDrama Obama will compromise with the flunkies.

[natrat]

51. so you think the owners, handful of people with the many billions each, are going away?

yea maybe they install someone with purple skin to do their bidding in washington but you are naive as fuck if you think anything is changing---edit i may have misunderstood the op's "what we are witnessing is the death spasms of white rule in america."

[LaydeeBug]

58. white MALE rule, if you please. nt

[natrat]

63. please, there are plenty of white rich scumbag women that fit the bill

look at beatrix in the netherlands. No she isn't american but that's not the point. She is one of these owner of the world types and she is a full on pos. Thatcher sucked , merkle is no peach, clinton tows corporatist line. Fundamentally yes there is a case to be made for women being better rulers but actual cases are few and far between.

[KG]

64. well, i was tempted to add xtain as a qualifier also.

but for me, it all fell under 'white'.

[Lerkfish]

62. the problem is that white supremacists are leavened throughout the power structure

it isn't just the morans holding signs. Its the bankers, the legislators, the country club elite.

yes, they'll use these idiots as their skinhead shocktroops, but know that the most powerful people in this country are white males, and they want to keep it that way.

[JohnnyLib2]

67. Pre-conscious, oblivious, denied, "brainwashed," even innocent racism--

I think all that will take even longer to change. The reality of having elected this president has surfaced huge amounts of
underlying negative racial attitudes IMO. Just think what some of those children carrying the ugly signs yesterday are learning and have learned.

The struggle goes on....

[Dutch]

69. The usual white=privileged bullshit.

What a slap in the face to millions of white working class Americans, plus the kind of divide-and-rule tactics towards working people the Republicans love.

[Solomon]

70. You're right. There's no such thing as white privilege.

In fact, whites are the most oppressed people in the world because everyone else thinks they're privileged.

Tough life.

[MellowDem]

77. Well, "white privilege"

is just a sloppy phrase to me. Sure, it "exists" for some whites, and not much at all for others. It is too broad a term and implies that all whites have privilege due to their skin color, whereas that is most definitely not always the case anymore. Indeed, if you grow up in an all-white area, it kind of negates the privilege you would have from having a different skin color.

I think most people who refer to "white" privilege are just really talking about economic privilege. Many whites have an economic privilege due to past discrimination and racism. But many do not. It is too complex an issue to compact into a simple phrase. Just looking at how Asians make the most money on average in this country, and money really is power in this country, it really makes you wonder how far "white" privilege goes. I mean, Asians had a lot of disadvantages in this country and yet have somehow made it to the "top" in spite of the lack of said privilege and obstacles from discrimination and historical legal oppression.

The previous poster is correct in saying that "white privilege" is a good way to further alienate those whites who don't have much privilege, economic or otherwise, at all who keep supporting the same people that oppress them. It is far too broad a phrase and often encompasses things that have little to do with race per se, economics for one.

And many whites really do have a tough life. Not because they are white necessarily, but I doubt anyone would ever go to poverty stricken white areas and serenade them on all the privilege they have and not feel like a douchebag. "White privilege" pretty much says to whites in poverty, "hey guys, you really don't have it all that rough, and the reason you live in poverty must be because you're an idiot, because look at all this privilege you have and you STILL are getting nowhere". It really rings the wrong way for many people. The phrase misses the point and the main cause of continuing racial disparities.

[Raineyb]

83. Poor whites still have it better than poor blacks

And have a better chance of being given a chance due to their skin color without the use of sports or music as a way to pull one up from one's bootstraps but of course you already know that. But you can't resist once again pretending that white privilege doesn't exist in this country. It's what you live for.

[Pangolin2]

84. Where did you find your crystal ball?...I'd love to have one too.

:eyes:

[Raineyb]

94. When white men with criminal records are not preferred over black

men with degrees in this country. Let me know. Until then, it's a damn sight easier being poor in this country if you have white privilege to help you out along the way.

[Name removed]

106. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Maru Kitteh]

119. Oh that's brilliant. "I don't understand what you're saying so - NEENER!"

Very smart.

[MellowDem]

88. Yes, it's what I live for...

:eyes:

I never said white privilege doesn't exist, in fact, if you read my post, I say it DOES in fact exist. White privilege is, when brought to its most basic form, nothing more than enjoying advantages through being in the majority and excercising the most overall power. Groups of people, whether they are religious, ethnic, racial, etc. that are in the majority usually do end up being the most advantaged simply due to their numbers and power. Indeed, racial groupings were created for the express purpose of controlling slaves and excercising power. The big fear at the time for the wealthy (who were mostly Southern slave owners) was that wealthy slave owners were the minority in the South and would be overwhelemed by the majority (the slaves) and poor whites. By creating a racialzed caste system, they coopted all those poor whites in the South and all the whites in the North as well to help secure their position at the top of the economic heap. Because at the time, the South was where all the wealth was, which is why it's no surprise race spawned from there. Now that the original intent of creating races is gone, the system that it left doesn't work very well anymore for its original purpose.

All I'm saying is that white privilege is a sloppy phrase. It doesn't cover the complexity of an issue of how race works nowadays. It really fits in the Jim Crow South, but now it's more complex than ever. Even your assertion, that "poor whites still have it better than poor blacks" is not necessarily true in all cases. And it misses the point as well. Are poor blacks generally worse off than poor whites because of white privilege? That is the question. And it is too complex of a question for one answer to cover. It really depends on a ton of factors.

Also, if white privilege allows poor whites more chances to pull themselves up by their bootstraps and get out of poverty, then why has white poverty percentages generally remained stable (when you take into account recessions and booms) over the last four or so decades? For that matter, so has black poverty rates. All in the post-Jim Crow era.

You would think if white privilege were a big factor for whites, they would be constantly improving in terms of poverty numbers and minorities would have constantly rising poverty numbers as they were displaced by white privilege and discrimination.

Even Asians and Hispanics over the past couple decades have kept a fairly stable poverty rate, though Asians have improved slightly overall by the look of it and the data doesn't go as far back.

To me, the fact that poverty rates have been so stable and the disparites have remained over the last couple decades for all these groups just points to the lack of economic mobility in the US. Economic privilege is far more powerful than racial privilege in most areas of the US. So even if you have white privilege, if you are poor, it will mean little to nothing. The way our economic system is now, it pretty much freezes the economic disparities of 40 years ago and keeps them going for eternity, if not making them worse especially in the last 8 years with the growth in wealth disparity overall.

[Raineyb]

95. EVERY time a post comes up about white privilege you pop up

to argue the opposite.

And I said it made it easier. That doesn't mean it will put them over the top. Perhaps a bit of reading tutoring will help you.

[TCJ70]

112. This is an excellent post.

It comes down to economics and the phrase really should be changed to rich privilege.

[Raineyb]

131. And who more often that not has this privilege? n/t

[MellowDem]

134. Generally, whites...

which is why it's understandable some call it white privilege, but I don't think it is a very accurate phrasing of the problem and it can alienate potential allies.

[TCJ70]

138. The wealthy. n/t

[anonymous171]

113. +1. nt

[azbarq]

109. and the rich really like it when we attack working class whites

helps push them over into the arms of the GOP and its rightwing economic policies. We Democrats and our ideas help the rich more than the GOP do!

[azbarq]

126. Can I ask you a question?

I agree 100 percent with your statement. It seems so obvious to me. But why is it that the vast majority of us democrats do not see it our way and instead see whites as the enemy instead of the rich?

What happened?

[Pangolin2]

73. Rule by and based on any particular ethnicity is offensive and wrong.

...

[natrat]

74. wrong sure . real oh yea

[Nikki Stone1]

85. When the IMF and the World Bank are run by non-Whites, then I'll agree with you

Until then, I think it is more about the economic fall of whites from the middle class to the working and working-poor classes.

[KG]

86. i think, as wealth slowly moves from the 'west' to the middle east and asia

i think they'll be more ethnic diversity amongst the money changers at the global level.

[Nikki Stone1]

87. I've been wondering that myself.

Once you set up an economic system divorced from nations, anyone within the syndicate can run it eventually.

[Mixopterus]

99. Which would spell doom for liberalism or post-enlightenment values

The worst of European imperial excess has -nothing- on what the post Muslim expansion Middle East and East Asia have done.

You could expect to see post-enlightenment values disappear as more power shifts into civilizations where they never had such developments. You could also expect a new era of large scale warfare as more people start competing for their share. An inevitable development, probably, but I wouldn't delude myself into thinking it is a positive one. With no larger method to unify groups of people along equitable lines and divide up the wealth accordingly, groups of humans will just proceed to kill each other and commit atrocity as they tend to do in such situations.

[QC]

91. Wall Street is still firmly in control of America, and it's still white as can be.

Those idiots you saw on the mall yesterday no more rule America than Homer Simpson does.

[yurbud]

93. Wall Street could be in its death throes too. Consider how open and heavy-handed

it has been the last couple of years, from demanding tax cuts and bailouts to forcing their president, Bush, on us through the Supreme Court.

They are incapable of making anything or providing any useful service. They are forced to come up with new scams and ways to skim money from people who actually do work, create, and serve others. But they are so squalid, and over-reaching that they can't even plan their scams to be sustainable.

[Odin2005]

92. +1

[nadinbrzezinski]

96. Joe Klein said as much this morning

and Nora O'Donnell tried to diminish it

[hfojvt]

97. you make it sound like I should be voting for the other side

What a fool I have been to vote for Democrats over the last 25 years, when their mission is to screw the white people. I must have been a total idiot to think Jesse Jackson was on my side, and to vote for him in the Wisconsin primary in 1988. Especially since I am actually related to George H. W. Bush.

[Mixopterus]

100. Ok

What the fuck do we have to gain by alienating white Americans by framing things this way?

Why frame it "death spasms of white rule"?? It has the real potential to anger white Americans and make them feel as if they are part of the problem by virtue of being white. Seems pretty counter-productive to me.

[azbarq]

110. maybe that is exactly the point

I think that the general idea expressed at the top of this thread is the product of rich people trying to push the majority of working class americans away from leftist economics and toward rightwing economic policies of the GOP.

[JerseygirlCT]

102. I think you're right

the depths of this crazed screeching by mindless paranoids does seem to indicate something upsetting them beyond policy issues. It's primal. We're seeing reptile brains at work here.

[mzmolly]

103. "the death spasms of white rule in america"

Well said!

[Name removed]

104. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nightrain]

105. I hope so, but might take a couple more generations....let it die....

[azbarq]

107. whites don't rule america. The rich rule

of course the rich like to make you think whites rule. Keeps the spotlight off them.

[anonymous171]

108. No. Poor/Middle class whites have never ruled this country. The elites care little for race.

[TCJ70]

114. Simply because the people viewed as "in power" happen to be white...

...doesn't mean that all whites rule. It's all about the Benjamin's now.

[azbarq]

125. 95% of our rulers are white. But 100% are rich. So why is it....

....that so many of us democrats love to attack whites instead of the rich?

Our rulers are almost all white. Maybe 95 percent. But the rulers are 100 percent RICH.

Why not attack the rich instead? Maybe because our ideas come from academia, hollywood and the media, and the ideas that come out of those institutions are controlled by the rich. It would be nice to see supposedly leftist political activists actually thinking for themselves instead of letting professors, movies, tv shows and news media fill their ideas with ideas friendly to the rich.

[BlooInBloo]

115. lol @ all of the "it's not race, it's class" people in this thread.

[Hannah Bell]

116. lol @ you

[anonymous171]

117. I know. Whites are on top because they obliviously are the superior race.

It has nothing to do with their economic status.

:sarcasm:

[Raineyb]

132. And how exactly did they attain this economic status?

Try going deeper.

[BlooInBloo]

136. Uh.... if they went deeper, they might have to say something their dead-set against saying...

Hence they're highly motivated to keep everything as superficial as possible.

[TCJ70]

139. "They" are about the top 2%, correct?

That leaves 98% who don't fit into that category...and I'd bet a fair number of those not in the "they" category are white.

[anonymous171]

144. By exploiting those who were/are poorer than themselves.

[KillCapitalism]

118. Van Jones was mostly right. n/t

[rbrnmw]

122. Johnson said the south would be lost to democrats

because of civil rights so it is reasonable to assume that the republican party is a den of racists who just are full of hate we could even say they are terrorists in many respects

[Blue-Jay]

123. Kill Whitey!

Except for me, obviously. I'm cool.

[raccoon]

128. I'd rec this if I could! nt

[raccoon]

129. Great post, by the way. nt

[Toasterlad]

133. You Think Those Teabaggers Represent the Ruling Class?

You are sadly deluded. They are no more than pawns, no different from the Obamabots on DU. People who subscribe to a single message and refuse to see anything that challenges that message are useful, to both the right AND the left, and, more importantly, to the corporate puppeteers who control them both. You think just because the President's black that "white rule" is over? I can assure you that the President's corporate masters are all very white indeed.

[TorchTheWitch]

135. [phone]

[KG]

140. you have sadly misread the op.

[Toasterlad]

143. Care to Explain?

You're implying that the status quo is changing. It is not.

[Soylent Brice]

141. i LOVE posts like these.

flushes out all the closet racists.

and BTW, your thread title alone is worth it's weight in gold. you are 100% correct.

K
& wish i could R, apparently i don't pay attention to dates and times of posts...

[Greyhound]

142. What we are witnessing is a distraction. The only color that matters in all of this is green.

The lead parasites in the U.S. and Europe are white, their counterparts over the rest of the world are Asian, Hispanic, Black, etc. and we can break it down to the regional level if you like, but the common denominator is the power/money.

Until we can overcome the distractions and see who is really the enemy, none of this will ever change.

[w4rma]

146. Yup. It's power that matters to these people. Race is only used to keep their "lessers" in line.

And this op reminds me that it can be used to create divisions even on the left. Careful.

[cliffordu]

145. You are exactly right.