I would have supported any Democrat who dared heckle the Chimp during his SOTU speeches.

[BuyingThyme]

If I don't allow some breathing room for this Joe Wilson guy, does that make me a hypocrite?

[rfranklin]

1. Not by Republican family values or standards.... nt

nt

[bigwillq]

2. Yes (nt)

[texastoast]

3. If you have no manners, you heckle

when someone is trying to be heard. You know, the old "do unto others" thingy. To me, the place to heckle is in the privacy of one's office. But then again, I'm old and was raised to be polite in public. Heckling like that is just trashy.

That said, fierce advocacy is mandatory through the proper venue, but there is no need to act like trash. Manners grease the wheels of courtesy and cooperation and are what keep us from killing each other.

[BuyingThyme]

5. What if somebody is terrorizing you with false threats of nuclear war?

Does heckling ever become appropriate?

[texastoast]

12. I suppose you are referring to Bush's skeeredy speeches

No, heckling is not appropriate. Getting a venue and getting the word out publicly is appropriate. You can get your point across and still stay on the high ground. It takes skills to be an effective orator. Obama has them and demonstrated appropriate restraint, zealousness and commitment. That will go much further with people. Witness Joe Wilson's opponent's eloquent response to the Wilson's outburst and the growth in his campaign chest just since last night.

[Democracyinkind]

20. Makes me think: If someone heckled Hitler - would he be a resistance hero today?

Indeed a venue of questioning that is worth following.

[pipi_k]

30. What does heckling accomplish, really?

Especially if it happened in the atmosphere we lived through for eight long years where even "liberal" news media like CNN were kissing Bush's ass...

In that atmosphere, the lie doesn't become the issue...the heckler does. He's used as a scapegoat for the RW and then the false message takes on a validity for them.

Hecklers look like fools and they end up making a mockery of the very cause they're trying to "save".

[BuyingThyme]

34. Well, we went for years without our voices being heard.

It doesn't seem now like it was such a long stretch, but Dems went a very long time before lifting a finger to do the right thing in regards to Iraq. Rudeness would have been just fine with me during that stretch.

[peace13]

4. You were not an elected official and as you remember...

no elected Dems hollered out at the mass murdering, lying, thieving beast of the devil. When there was cause, civility remained. These thugs need to be reminded that there are rules for a reason!

[BuyingThyme]

7. Maybe rules need to be broken sometimes?

[peace13]

16. I hear that.

Don't kid yourself, I grieved last night remembering all of the times that I wished someone would call out GWB to his face so that I could watch him crumble into a psychotic episode. I am not proud of it. I wished that during a debate he would admit his lies or fall into a catatonic stupor. But at the end of the day we need laws and we have rules. There are rules that govern the behavior of our lawmakers when they are in chambers and I want them followed. Wilson should be held accountable. He and his tea bagging town hall messengers do not raise us up...they lower us to the lowest.

[ecstatic]

6. Well, Bush was actually lying

So there's a key difference.

[NoSheep]

8. It matters when the speaker is indeed lying.

[Pangolin2]

11. There's always some way to rationalize boorish behavior.

:shrug:

[Pangolin2]

9. Sorry but yes it does.

:shrug:

[BuyingThyme]

10. Don't be sorry.

:hi:

[Proud Liberal Dem]

13. I wouldn't really have been proud of any Democrat heckling Bush

although he richly deserved it more than any POTUS in recent history. However, what the Democrats might have done during a Bush speech is nothing more than hypothetical speculation. The point is that NO Democrats EVER heckled Bush during any of his Presidential addresses before Congress and somehow managed to give the office he "represented" the respect it deserved while addressing Congress. Heck, even Republicans in Congress when Gingrich was Speaker never heckled Clinton AFAIK and they REALLY loathed him. Obama seems to have brought out the worst instincts, political or otherwise, of a lot of the members in the Republican Party simply by virtue of his having won last year's election and last night was simply a nauseating display of hatred and disrespect by some members of the Republican Party for which they richly deserve scorn.

[pampango]

14. Well, Joe Wilson would be a hypocrite if he complained about a Democrat heckling Bush.

Are you and I hypocrites for blasting Wilson if we would have supported a Democrat doing the same thing to Bush? I suppose that depends on whether we place a value on decorum and courtesy in a setting such as last night's speech. I believe that I do place a value on that, so, yeah, it would make me a little bit of a hypocrite. (Though I reserve the right to contend at a later date that the same rules and standards should apply equally to both sides ;) )

[zbdent]

15. Remember, Cindy Sheehan was arrested for wearing a T-shirt ...

and she went quietly ... unlike the Repug wife who was ASKED to leave (they had to do a Repug because it would look too obvious to not do so, but they didn't ARREST the Repug wife) ...

so any person who let out the merest peep of dissent would have been "escorted" out of the building ...

and the media would have been all over it (edited to add: all over the "rude disruption") ...

[peace13]

19. It is important to remember these things.

Without diligence we can slide back to that awful time. How quickly people forget. If we had uttered a word about hurting GWB in any way we would have been investigated and most likely tried. It happened. When Laura came to our little town her SUV had sharp shooters pointed out the back window when they left the Inn. Pointed... at little town America. It was sickening. The rethugs don't remember and don't care.

[zbdent]

21. "If we had uttered a word about hurting GWB in any way"

there was a guy who spent some time in jail, convicted of "threatening" GWB ...

his crime? He was in a bar the day before the pResident was going to be in a town nearby ... and he made a joke about a "burning bush" ... and he was tried and convicted of threatening the pres ...

Repugs stand there, outside Obama "town halls", wearing weapons, and the media shrugs, saying "2nd amendment" ...

[nuxvomica]

17. It's apples and oranges

The signature characteristic of the Bush regime was a refusal to engage with the opposition while this president's embrace of bipartisanship has been excessive to a fault. Given that distinction, heckling Bush would have been an act of desperation but Wilson's heckling was unnecessary and without provocation. You would not be a hypocrite to call that piece-o'-shit Wilson out on this.

[DireStrike]

18. At this point I have to say no

The republicans are in sharp formation and will never break ranks. A charge of hypocrisy rolls off them unnoticed.

We should do the same. We will not win by being reasonable.

Yes, you would be a hypocrite. But it is the right thing to do.

[JVS]

22. It was the smart move on his part. People in his party will see him as "speaking truth to power"

[Fading Captain]

23. Well put

EOM

[pipi_k]

24. Why would you support someone acting like an asshole...

...no matter what party that asshole belonged to?


I don't get it. Why do people think it's OK to lower themselves to the same behavior of the people they call "morans" and worse?

[BuyingThyme]

35. I guess sometimes there's no way to deal with people without being the asshole.

[seabeyond]

25. i would not have supported a dem heckling. may giggle, but say wrong. you hypocrite, me not. lol.

ah well

[Javaman]

26. fail.

Do I really need to explain why?

[Amerigo Vespucci]

27. It's about the face it puts on the party

If you "would have supported any Democrat who dared heckle the Chimp during his SOTU speeches" and would have done so in full acceptance of the message such an act would have sent out to the world about how Democrats conduct themselves, that would have been your right.

I'm gonna play the "respectfully agree to disagree with you" card here.

[Spoonman]

28. Yes,

and there are MANY hypocrites here on DU.
Do the party a favor and don't join them.
They give us a bad name, and make us all look like idiots.
Never give ammo to your enemy during a fight!

[scheming daemons]

29. Then you are a dumbass. Heckling a joint-session speech is the epitome of classless.

The institution and the office require a bit of decorum.



Any elected congressman who heckles a President in the House chamber is a classless prick.

[BuyingThyme]

40. I can see you're certainly a classy one.

I love winning debates without even participating.

[DevonRex]

31. Nobody gives a shit after your post about Obama's speech to kids being an abuse of power.

[texastoast]

32. Ohhhhhh, didn't see that

Now things are making sense.
;-)

[DevonRex]

33. She apparently thinks we have short memories, even tho it was just

a few days ago.

[BuyingThyme]

38. You're not good at making things up.

That seems to be a rule with your ilk.

[BuyingThyme]

36. I don't support people like George W. Bush having a direct line to the nation's schools.

You do.

I'm better than you.

[cali]

37. guess you weren't paying attention. dems did heckle bush by booing him

at his 2005 SotU speech.

[BuyingThyme]

39. I guess there's a subjective line between responding and heckling.

[cali]

41. bwahahaha. yeah. booing is responding, not heckling.

at least in your confused little world.

[BuyingThyme]

42. You sure are a strange creature.

[librechik]

43. Wouldn't it have been great if Kucinich jumped up and called shrub a liar

when he uttered th "16 words?"

That would have been great. Cuz Shrub actually was lying.

[SeattleGirl]

44. Not me.

Joe Wilson came off as an angry, petulant child.

I think any Dem that had done that would come across the same way.

[Lost Jaguar]

45. This is beyond heckling...

...calling someone a liar is one of the ultimate insults where I come from. It's one of the "fighting words," which when uttered, demand an apology or a retraction or some evidence of the charge. Failing that, it's time to choose your weapons. Polite people don't make such accusations lightly. It's equivalent to "whore" or "bastard" or "coward."

To call someone a liar when you are insulated from the consequences, as in the anonymity of a crowd, is itself cowardly. Would Rep. Wilson have made such a charge if he were within hand-shaking distance from the president, in a room, say, with others present? I think not. I doubt he has the character.

I am among those who suspect such egregious behavior was the result of his judgement being impaired by alcohol.

[anigbrowl]

46. I wouldn't, and yes it does

I am more than happy for lawmakers to make their point by not applauding statements of which they disapprove during an address to Congress.

[cbdo2007]

47. Agree. Imagine if a bunch of Dems heckled Bush about the Iraq war...how many lives saved???

We'll never know.

Many of us knew he was lying at the time about Saddam and the WMDs but hardly anyone stood up to him.

I don't mind this Wilson guy being a heckler. He'll be proven wrong just like Bush was. Our society likes to rush to judgement...just wait and see. I hope Wilson is wrong, but Obama IS a politician after all and even though I hope for the best with him, I can only trust him on a sliding scale.