This Modern World - Then and now with Goofus and Gallant - By Tom Tomorrow

[kpete]

http://www.salon.com/comics/tomo/2009/09/08/tomo/index.html

[knitter4democracy]

1. That's exactly what it feels like.

Especially with the debates going on on FB amongst my friends. *sigh*

[rucky]

2. Great, now I won't be able to read Highlights magazine to my daughter

without cracking up at inappropriate times.

[valerief]

3. Dead on, yet again!!! nt

[intheflow]

4. This may be my all-time favorite Tom Tomorrow.

I always hated that smug Gallant sonovabitch. Now I know why!

[givemebackmycountry]

5. I love the cop whistling in the background...

while "Gallant" (how smart is that) is sporting his assault weapon.

[donco6]

10. Me too. That frame alone could be a t-shirt.. n/t

[Danascot]

6. Damn he's good!

nt

[Tabasco_Dave]

7. This comic strip makes me angry

because it is the absolute truth, the cop whistling in the background really pisses me of.:mad:

[ccharles000]

8. how true

[arcadian]

9. Not kidding, I look just like Goofus.

[badgerpup]

21. You a redhead?

Gingers RAWK. :yourock:


----> not a redhead...just an admirer

[arcadian]

153. I'm not actually, I have brown hair.

With freckles, pretty hardcore Irish.

[depakid]

11. Spot on as usual

[Quantess]

12. K & R

[AngryOldDem]

13. Sadly, this is really the way it is.

We are just so fucked as a society.

[WillyT]

14. Excellent !!! - K & R !!!

:kick:

[surrealAmerican]

15. Perfect...

just perfect

[demwing]

16. Did anyone notice the woman in panel #4?

That's gotta be Bachmann!

[AspenRose]

44. "Friends in Congress" = Bachmann

She makes Katherine Harris look like a Rhodes Scholar...

[Joe Bacon]

17. This is precisely what the press whores have given us.

How this nation has fallen.

[Soylent Brice]

18. that just went up in my cube.

[redqueen]

19. Excellent idea.

:D

[Soylent Brice]

50. i've had 6 people ask me about that cartoon since this morning.

AWESOME.

[sofa king]

20. Tom Tomorrow must get paid for his stuff...

...because it's much better than mine.

[Orsino]

35. He's now getting paid less.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/08/arts/music/08pearl.html

[Bluenorthwest]

22. Tom just gets better and better.

I love him madly.

[Crunchy Frog]

23. Wish that I could give this 50 recs!

[Name removed]

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[beac]

27. You make some good points about civil discourse, but your defense of Beck is pathetic.

Beck is a raving lunatic who wants nothing more than to rip our society to pieces.

And it has consistently been the "mainstream" of the GOP that finds NO threat, insult or lie too wacky to put into their talking points.

Also, paragraphs are your friends.

[Raineyb]

46. You can't have civil discourse with a flaming lunatic.

which is exactly what Beck and the teabaggers are.

[gordianot]

28. Easy to "foget" say did you write a sign several years ago about "morans"?

[Name removed]

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[Mithreal]

40. Defending Glenn Beck? "never actually listened to his own words"

I like a couple of your ideas about bringing people together, but it is the right that has mastered driving wedges. Our Democratic Congress and President have been begging for bipartisanship and the Repubs spit in their faces and threaten their lives. Ridiculous idea that liberals are the ones who are dividing the people. Your point that stands out is that Beck is misunderstood. And attacking a cartoon, you really came for some serious discussion.

[disgruntledpatriot]

42. I did

I did come for serious discussion. So you say that they have been begging for bipartisanship, why are they throwing out every republican idea dealing with heath care. Why is it when republicans ask for TORT reform Howard Dean said in his own words, "it isn't in there because we don't want to fight litigation attorneys"? It is both sides driving the wedges, as evidenced by the quickness in which I was attacked for even suggesting that criticism is a two-way street and no one is above reproach. If you think that shining a light on this cartoon as an example of what is wrong with political discussion isn't serious look at all the support it got. It only continues to divide us, when we should be working with each other. If the democrats actually want bipartisanship they might actually start talking compromise instead of 'it's our way or no way'.

[Mithreal]

47. Why are you so concerned about only Rightwinger talking points?

Are you a Republican? I would like to know something about who I am having a serious conversation with, if that isn't too personal?

[disgruntledpatriot]

55. No

I am not a republican, democrat, or independent. I think that party politics is the first great problem we are facing today. I don't agree with all the points of any party so I can't identify with them. I also cannot stand how most of the time all they talk about is fighting members of the other party, when they should be talking about serving the voters.

[Mithreal]

56. Nothing is not an answer, it's an evasion. What is the best fit? nt

[disgruntledpatriot]

58. Sorry

Sorry you don't get it, but it is possible not to fit into any norm, or to fit into any party. Just because we have party politics doesn't mean everyone has to fit. Why don't you judge since it seems to be what you want to do. I believe in gun rights with limits. I believe in women's choice on abortion. I believe in freedom of speech for everyone. I believe that this country should give everyone an opportunity to achieve and should punish those that do finally make it. I believe that you have a right to earn whatever you can get paid for whatever you can do. I believe in charity and service, but not forced. I believe that we should be strong defenders of freedom, wherever it is needed or wanted. I believe in strong defense, strong borders, and national security. I think we should take care of our poor and underprivileged, but I don't believe in handing everything to everyone. I believe people should be expected to work in some way for what they have. There are so many things I believe that don't fit into one party or another, but above all I believe that the parties are tearing this country apart, and have moved so far away from what this country is meant to be that they are no longer democratic or republican.

[redqueen]

60. No... "the parties" aren't tearing this country apart.

Read more. You're still missing what's really going on.

[Name removed]

63. Deleted message

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[disgruntledpatriot]

69. Right

When all else fails accuse someone of being pushed. I wish I was getting paid for something right now, but sadly I am out of work. I was led to this site through a thread I was researching for my blog. I try to write a balanced blog about political discussion and I was checking out the main page to see if I would link this site to it. Not going to happen by the way. The heading for this topic caught my eye and I read it. But, this is the internet and I can't prove anything about myself, nor do I have to.

[Name removed]

71. Deleted message

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[disgruntledpatriot]

76. Perfect

See how you do that, "if you don't like it make a cogent argument or ignore me" leaving me with a conundrum, do I reply and continue the pointless turn around, where you have not made an argument either? Or do I ignore you, knowing that I am not a troll, but leave the possibility open for you to post how right you are?

If you haven't seen it then I am sorry for you. You have missed the initial point. Both sides (is that balanced) are complicit in the problem that is our political system. The problems that keep us from being able to talk to each other like human beings, and instead lead to fighting, name-calling, blah blah blah. You will again point out how wrong I must be, because you are so right, but it doesn't matter anymore.

A troll is someone that makes a post, looking only for an argument, or to inflame a community of people. It is not my intention to start an argument, though it seems to have happened to some extent. Now, you will probably call me a liar, and it's fine, but since you aren't in my mind, and not here with me, then you really don't know. So, I have to say good day to you.

[Raineyb]

79. I've seen all your arguments. But you haven't made one that separates the truly

interested from the troll. Here's a hint, defending Beck doesn't do it.

[Mithreal]

77. Trust your instincts. Please explain to this character that this is

a website for Progressives and people who come here to start fights defending insane rightwingers will not find a friendly welcome. So the definition of troll the member suggests is insufficient. I have no more desire to communicate with this person today, otherwise I would say it myself.

[Mithreal]

64. Your message is being questioned because you have only defended

rightwinger talking points and the insane Beck. The good points of your message are being compromised by what YOU chose to defend from "liberal" attacks. Why is this surprising and why are you acting like a victim of big bad liberals? Beck is a dangerous fool. Shocking, huh? Did Beck ever say anything that someone could find reasonable? Of that I have no doubt. Maybe non-politically-affiliated people who listen to the mainstream media are easily turned to the false populism of the Republicans who are unwilling to accept they lost the last election. Make no mistake, Glenn Beck is an enemy of this country and its people. Perhaps you can't help yourself and really like him, fine, but defending him here is stupid and asking for trouble.

You just described the Democratic Party. Are you really that confused? Many of the old Republicans have switched to Democratic Party because the Republican has been taken over by whackos. Think I am kidding. One of the decent former Republicans I have a friendly relationship with and who was a head of the state Repub party and ran elections for Repub legislators has bailed on his party despite maintaining some pretty hideous ideas on the way things should be and he has not hidden under a rock, he is active. My wife is Independent, are you scared of calling yourself Independent. The difference in the parties is on the range of solutions proposed for our problems not these SOLID American values you espouse.

If you are honestly seeking truth and not spouting rightwing talking points you will be welcomed here but you may need to lurk a while and get a feel for what Democrats are really like. Just a suggestion, participate all you like but you are risking getting shouted down if you accidentally spout nonsense.

[disgruntledpatriot]

68. Sure sure

I call myself independent because you have to register something. I call myself independent but not in the way you think. I am independent from party politics, not associated with the libertarians or the green movement. Sure I described a lot of things that democrats believe, but there is a lot more, and much more than I have room for here.

As for spouting nonsense, and defending people. I will defend anyone that is taken out of context, and what you call nonsense is reasonable points to a very large portion of the population. I would like to know what 'right wing' talking points you think are so wrong? Do you really think it would be a bad thing to reform medical malpractice so doctors can do actual medicine without worrying about every little thing ending up in court?

You know what, it's pointless, we won't agree, and you definitely won't accept that it is possible for there to be compromise in this issue. My original point has been skewed, as I should have known it would have.

[Mithreal]

70. You are quite the victim. I believe you are not arguing in good faith

and are defending a lunatic. I have nothing more to say to you. Enjoy your stay.

[Mithreal]

66. Redqueen said read more and it is obvious you have been

introduced to rightwinger arguments.

If you are angry about what is happening now, may I suggest the following book?

Screwed: The Undeclared War Against the Middle Class -- And What We Can Do About It by Thom Hartmann.

Your library may have it, but it is easy to find online. Hartmann also has a great radio show, google it, you can listen online, the show is broadcast more than once a day online. You would be much more prepared for what is ahead if you gave it a listen.

[disgruntledpatriot]

72. I will add it to my list

It is a long list of books that I intend to read, and along with textbooks for school, and tech books for work I get through a couple. Contrary to what some people think, some of us do like to get several different sides of a topic to make up our own minds. Sadly the discussion I wanted to have here has been sidetracked by a small few of closed minds, but oh well, if even one is civil it is a good day. I agree that the middle class is getting screwed, but I am not naive enough to believe that both parties are innocent. They are both complicit in different ways. That really is my point, we are all getting the shaft, but instead of focusing on that we are being pitted against each other. I think that a few of us can agree that there is no real concrete majority in this country, and as a whole we are very centrist. There is a core set of values, that all of government is letting slip through their fingers faster and faster as the years roll on. We all have to wake up to it before it is too late, but if we can't talk about it civilly then it's already too late.

[redqueen]

73. You're attempting to mount a defense for a man who calls Obama a racist

with a "deep-seated hatred for white people".

It's sad that you think you would get any traction with sane people anywhere in the world, when that is your #1 point.

[disgruntledpatriot]

78. No

You missed my #1 point, because I used the name Glenn Beck all the rest of my post faded to black. But, it's ok, I see that a lot in people.

Now, since you brought it up, define racism for me.

[redqueen]

80. You've spent most of your time here talking about Beck.

If he's not your point, what is?

[disgruntledpatriot]

83. No

Read back, you have, you all have. It is exactly what happens in these discussions. I keep trying to get the topic away from that, but everyone keeps bringing it up. If you want my point, go back to the first post. My point is exactly what is happening here. Instead of having a discussion about how we are all getting screwed and led around by the nose, people keep pulling out one inflammatory topic that was mentioned and beating it to death. It is the tactic of the very people that are ruining us. The media does it, politicians do it, and many of us do it and it is a wall that keeps us from having an actual discussion with substance.

[redqueen]

85. Your first post defended Glenn Beck, an insane idiot.

You're trying to sell the lie of false balance here... sorry, but we're not stupid. The RW lies don't get very far with this audience. People here LIKE reading, and finding out the truth for themselves.

The media is owned by what? Corporations. It is not left. It is anti-left. Obama is not a liberal. He is a moderate Dem at best. Most here would call him a centrist.

The political landscape has shifted into bizarro world since Reagan was elected, and people like you keep willingly letting these liars pull the wool over your eyes.

Wake up.

[disgruntledpatriot]

89. Two way street

That is what it is. As for calling me a liar and others you don't know idiots, that's fine. You are a bright shining example of the very problem I was discussing. My 'defense' of Glenn Beck was in reference to the cartoon, that wrongly portrays him. I did not defend his views, even though I agree with some of them, but notice not all. I know that you will forget that part, and throw me in the camp with the 'idiots and liars' anyway, because that is your tactic. I agree that the political landscape is skewed. Some of the media is clearly left, and some clearly right, that is why I said you have to get as much as you can so you can filter out the bs and make up your own mind. I never assumed you were stupid, nor did I call you stupid, but, thanks for assuming I have some kind of motive here, or that I am intentionally lying. It shows that the road to getting this country back from the government is going to be a long hard trip.

[redqueen]

92. Do I need to personally know someone to know they're an idiot?

No, I don't.

I didn't call YOU a liar, did I? Can you read? Have trouble with reading comprehension? I bet you do. It's epidemic with anyone who belives in the lie of false balance.

It's blatantly obvious that you have a motive here. You're trying to sell false balance. Like I said, we're not stupid.

And while there are a handful of liberals on tv... the vast majority of the M$M is rightwing. Your attempt to push the false balance meme there is as obvious as the day is long.

[disgruntledpatriot]

96. oh

Forgive my lack of comprehension. You see, I always thought that when you say someone is telling lies you are calling them a liar. I guess I got that wrong, thanks for setting me straight. You have nothing to contribute, thanks for trying. Good day.

[redqueen]

98. Reading comprehension. Practice it.

I said you are trying to sell the lie of false balance. I'm attempting to give you the benefit of the doubt there, obviously. If you actually believe the lie, then when you regurgitate it you can't be accused of lying... only of spreading the lie.

Read about false balance, find out why what you're believing is a lie.

Or, just keep on regurgitating BS... your choice.

[disgruntledpatriot]

101. Funny

First, I like the subtle difference. Saying someone is selling a lie, isn't saying they are lying. That way you can keep your hands clean.

Lastly, just like everything else, you accuse me of regurgitating BS, with no basis other than your own belief, or the belief of someone YOU read. Isn't it just possible that what you read is wrong? Isn't it possible that I have read material on false balance and find it just as full of holes and bs as just about everything else out there? Like I said many times, read everything you can, watch everything you can, and strain it through a filter to get rid of the BS. All I was trying to say is we cannot have civil discussion in this country because of things like the cartoon posted above, and whether you like me or not, whether you like Glenn Beck or not, this forum has proven my point. There have only been about two people here that have even attempted to make this a civil discussion, all the rest just want to bash me without actually contributing to the discussion.

[redqueen]

104. If you read about false balance and found it "full of holes"...

then we're just going to have to agree to disagree.

Good luck with getting over the brainwashing.

And welcome to DU.

[HughBeaumont]

103. Some examples of "clearly left" media that's as far-reaching as Fox News is, please.

[disgruntledpatriot]

107. um

Let's see, ABC, NBC, and CBS who have done nothing but kiss butt for over a year now. NBC's gift shop is selling Obama bobbleheads for goodness sake. MSNBC is worse, but not much.

[redqueen]

111. ...

:spray:

Seriously... you really ought to resent the trick that is being played on you. They are using you like a tool. Wake up.

[HughBeaumont]

126. Absolutely RIDICULOUS.

Do you even know who NBC is OWNED by? General Electric, which is why the fanatically unliberal Welches are regular guests on their stations. CNBC is one of the most Republican-polluted networks this side of Fixed. MSNBC only tossed us Keith Olberman and Racheal Maddow after they jumped the sinking ship that was the Bush Administration. "The Path to 9/11" (an exercise in Clenis blaming) ABC is owned by Disney. CBS is owned by Viacom, whose CEO was an avowed Bush supporter. Stop me when I come to a corporation that even has a remote interest in promoting "left wing" views.

[Enthusiast]

138. Thanks Hugh.

The DU PTB decided to strip my post from the thread because I dared to challenge this new propagandist that calls himself a patriot.

[Enthusiast]

141. You credibility is toast, here.

You, in fact, are indoctrinated in RW thought or you would recognize the RW bias in the M$M, and that is a fact.

[Quantess]

130. Very little of the MSM is "clearly left".

For you to see much of the MSM as "clearly left" means that your own political views are right of center.

[HughBeaumont]

75. This line struck me funny . . .

"I believe that this country should give everyone an opportunity to achieve and should punish those that do finally make it."

I notice you use the much-bandied-by-the-wingers word "Punish" (as in "punishing success"), which no one here uses. We call it "paying their fair share", which sorry, the wealthy have not been doing and continue not to do. How many billions are being left on the table because Bewsh's tax cuts for the rich aren't being rolled back NOW?

[disgruntledpatriot]

81. wow

Right, and your side of the argument is just as 'left wing' as I would expect. Did you know that under Bush the evil rich paid more in taxes than they had any time previously? http://www.taxfoundation.org/publications/show/250.html. If you notice there was only a drop in income tax paid by the top earners for the first year of Bush's term, then it steadily increased until they were paying much more than they had been ever before. I think that 5% of the population paying 70% of the taxes in this country is way more than fair by your definition. What do you want? Do you want everyone that makes less than 250k to pay zero? Well you know that many of us do. I paid so little in taxes last year, and the year before, and way way back that is was almost shameful. But, to me it doesn't matter all that much, I personally believe in a flat tax system. Oh, and by punish, I don't mean taxes, but thanks for jumping to conclusions.

[redqueen]

82. Like I said... READ.

You are being played. Doesn't it piss you off?

http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2008/08/the-greek-menac.html

[disgruntledpatriot]

84. Right

I hate to assume so I will just say you must have missed the link to the IRS on the site I posted. See, the charts that show the numbers came right from the IRS. So...nice try

http://www.irs.gov/taxstats/indtaxstats/article/0,,id=133521,00.html

[redqueen]

86. I love how right-wingers trust the gov't when it suits them...

:rofl:

Clearly you are anti-reading... most on that side of the aisle are. Try actually reading something before you attempt a response.

Good luck rousing from your slumber. Enjoy being used as a tool by those who want to keep profiting off of your blindness.

[disgruntledpatriot]

91. Oh right

I guess when supplied with the facts it is just best to say they are lies anyway. I don't trust the government, but if the IRS had it wrong why aren't the democrats in control fixing it, it would only support their own argument. Since you can only refute the numbers by just saying the IRS is lying, then have fun with yourself, cause I am done with you. I am looking for sensible, civil discussion, not childish Nuh-uh back and forth.

[redqueen]

93. The chart doesn't show a complete picture.

Something you'd know if you actually cared about the subject you're attempting to discuss, rather than just regurgitating rightwing talking points.

It's sad that you don't realize how obivous you are.

[HughBeaumont]

95. You're quoting the Tax Foundation????? REALLY?

Dude, PLEASE. Try again.

Yeah, the wealthy paid more under Bewsh than they did under Eisenhower(91%), Nixon (70%) or even Reagan (50-40%). The top tax rate under Bewsh is the lowest it's been in 75 YEARS. It resulted in very little job creation. That site is skewering population growth in their data to justify their numbers.

And don't get me started on the Forbesian "flat/fair tax" crapola. Yet another bait-and-switch to let the rich off easy.

I knew if I scratched deep enough I'd find the thief underneath . . .

[disgruntledpatriot]

99. yes

I quote them because they present the same spreadsheets the IRS does without all the clicking. If you look at the site they link to IRS.gov, but it isn't as easy to see everything because you have to click and go back several times to see the same picture.

You may also notice that tax rates for EVERYONE was lower during Bush's term, and there is an extra bracket of .1% that paid a higher rate than anyone else. Why is it we focus on the percentages anyway. Everyone's tax rates were lower, and there were more taxes collected, under the most basic tax model that seems to be a good thing. Spending on the other hand was bad, so it didn't help, but on the topic of taxes we are focused on the wrong thing. But, that is the point, we are given these 'left' or 'right' talking points, and all we do is beat them to death and ignore the real problems.

[LondonReign2]

108. Yes, they paid more taxes

because the amount they earned has been tipped tremendously in their favor. At nop time since the 20's has the wealth disparity been as great. So please don't boo hoo for the extraordinarily wealthy having to pay more in taxes when their wealth has skyrocketed.

[disgruntledpatriot]

110. Missed again

Wasn't boo hooing how much they paid, just pointing out to the above, that while they want to bash my 'right wing' talking point they are just using and equally weak 'left wing' one. Yes they make a lot, and in more cases than not legally. That is what this country is about. How bout while I not boo hoo how much they pay, we get people to stop painting them the devil for how much they make.

[treestar]

147. Well they should. And not whine about it as "punishment."

[hay rick]

150. flat taxes, regressive incomes?

Noticed you linked to the tax foundation but you seem to have skipped over Table 5, " "Adjusted Gross Income Shares, 1980-2007" before you misread Table 6, "Total Income Tax Shares, 1980-2007." For the record, Table 6 shows the top 10% (not 5%) paying slightly more than 70% of total INCOME taxes. No mention here of the regressive SSI and Medicare tax burdens, by the way.

On to income. Please note that the richest 1% saw their share of income increase from 8.46% to 22.83% from 1980 to 2007. This is the context for their increase in income tax share from 19% to 40%. Not so outrageous all of a sudden?

[liberalhistorian]

143. That is, indeed, a very good point and many members of

both parties are guilty of it. The problem is, I'm not sure what can really be done about it. As long as you have political parties, you're going to have members of said parties who care far more about the party than the country in general. And I just don't foresee a party-less political structure in the future, it's just not gonna happen. I still say it's mainly the GOP, at this point, who are the obstinate, intractable ones and who are also sowing hate and ignorance. They don't care if Americans die from lack of access to health care or money, they only care about seeing to it that Obama fails. They're more interested in ensuring Obama fails than in the good of the country.

[pollo poco]

88. not begging for bipartisanship

"So you say that they have been begging for bipartisanship..."

If they are begging for bipartisanship, they are doing it over the wishes of the electorate.

And are you trying to be conciliatory by pointing out that the left is not a bunch of hippies: as if all people who go to college and don't like shooting wolves out of helecopters are hippies? By the way, we call ya'll racist because your people carry racist signs and say racist things. But personally, I think those that call them racists are a little too narrow in their criticism. The real problem is that teabaggers hate reality.

And if you don't want to be called a teabagger- don't get all sweet on Glen Beck.

"Lie down with dogs, wake up with fleas."- Ben Franklin

And anyway, aren't conservatives supposed to be against drugs? Then why are so many of your leaders on drugs?
Aren't you supposed to be into family values? Then why are so many of your leaders unable to keep it in their pants?
Aren't you supposed to be pro war? Then why are so many of your leaders draft dodgers?
Pro America? Then why secede? BTW that would make TWO attempts at leaving the union for many of you. Personally, I am sorry we ever fought the war to keep you the first time. I get so tired of being lectured about marriage by people who lead the nation in divorce. I also get tired of hearing constant whining about taxes from people who need my money to pay for their fucking roads.

This is what I'm talking about here. No connection with reality. Reality denying begins with faith, and quickly spreads until facts and reality have no bearing on the discussion.

Sorry your fantasy is so unsupportable. You really don't have a leg to stand on. Ayn Rand, Ronald Reagan- casualties of reality. Turns out they were totally wrong about everything they stood for. And you too.

[disgruntledpatriot]

94. Another glaring example

Over the wishes of the electorate? So the polls that say more people do not like the current HC plan than do is an example of what? Just because a representative was elected does not mean the electorate is stagnant and should just accept anything they do after election. The country and it's people are a living body, and politicians need to realize that getting elected is not free rein to do whatever they want.

As for the left being hippies thing, I was only pointing out a common stereotype engendered by the right. All of those stereotypes are wrong.

You go on about my leaders? Let me just say, since you missed the first several times, I am not a conservative, nor a republican, but go ahead and ignore that, you will I am sure. Why are so many conservatives on drugs? Well the same reason so many liberals are. We are all human, and subject to human failings like addictive behavior. Drugs are a prevalent problem and not restricted to any one group of people.

Why are so many conservatives cheating on their wives, probably for the same reason that so many liberals do. They are human (see what's happening here).

You say, 'you' a lot but you don't even know me. I don't advocate secession, nor do I live in a state that does. I do however believe in states rights, because the constitution defends that explicitly. I have been married 11 years, and plan on making it quite a lot more. I don't have a problem with taxes, they are necessary to run a country. I do have a problem with the system though.

Glad you uphold one of my points though, some people are just to quick to judge because someone says something they don't agree with. Thanks for supporting that.

[Quantess]

120. On what planet do you spend most of your time?

If the democrats actually want bipartisanship they might actually start talking compromise instead of 'it's our way or no way'.

Compromise and conciliation is all Democrats seem to be capable of!

And, anyone who defends Glenn Beck in any capacity (other than to say he makes sense about 10% of the time) or saying that his critics have never listened to his "actual words" clearly does not have any business posting of DU. Believe me, I have listened to his "actual words", and he's a fear-mongering, dangerous, ignorant, lunatic, who is trying to start a civil war.

[redqueen]

131. Isn't it shocking?

8 years straight of total domination, and yet they still manage to believe the false balance lie that "the dems must be just the same!"

No taking reality itself into account... hell no... that would be too logical.

[Enthusiast]

140. In case you failed to notice

the Democrats won the damn election. Why should we care what the party of lies says? The only idea I've heard from the GOP is tort reform. There is simply no way to work with the GOP when their elected officials claim there would be death panels in health care reform. People that make such claim, such lies, should be dismissed from consideration.

Hey, wouldn't tort reform be great. Then the insurance industry could deny even more critical care.

[liberalhistorian]

142. Umm, dude-Obama has done nothing BUT attempt to

compromise and work bipartisanship. It's the RW who are the "our way or the highway" and they haven't actually put forth anything of substance except for fomenting hatred against every single thing Obama says and does. He can't even give a fucking speech to schoolchildren about staying in school and working hard without the foam-at-the-mouthers going crazy. And don't even get me started on the birthers, the deathers, the GOPers in charge of helping to reform health care who don't even understand the basics of Medicare, the blatant racists whose opposition to everything the prez says or does boils down to the fact that they can't stand a black man being in the White House, even if he IS half-white.

Yes, civility and compromise and listening to all viewpoints are very important, especially in politics. But right now, the Dems are the only ones doing the compromising and bipartisanship, with the reward of even further nuttiness from the right and more spit in our faces. And yet we cave even more instead of finally trying to get some backbone.

[noiretextatique]

52. there is another site where you can discuss your views

and your love of that luncatic glenn beck. and your spelling won't be a problem there.
http://www.freerepublic.com/tag/*/index

[disgruntledpatriot]

57. Nice

Never said I love him, but thanks for being a glaring example of what is wrong here. You, like many liberals and conservatives only want to pull out one thing that you don't agree with and ride that into the sunset. Isn't it possible for people to disagree on one thing, and agree on another? Is it too hard for one side to admit that they have some things in common with the other? I guess for some it is. Besides that site is just as bad as this one is turning out to be.

[noiretextatique]

115. you come here defending a lunatic like glenn beck

you are getting what you deserve.

[noiretextatique]

146. Glenn Beck accuses Dennis Kucinich of rape

more reasonableness from your boy.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x367679

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

118. Oh, that's right.......Glenn and his "It only takes one Tim McVeigh" speech.....

Like handing a kid some gasoline and some matches and saying "Now only use this in the fireplace.". What a Pontius Pilate routine.......

[snort]

41. The dumbing down of America

is really what makes beck possible or did you admire his expose concerning the facade at Rockefeller Center?

[disgruntledpatriot]

43. Thanks

Thanks for supporting my point. Instead of accepting that not everyone that watching his show hangs on every word, or that they might actually watch a lot of different shows, read a lot of different books, and listen to a lot of different opinions you just jump to they might be stupid. While his expose on Rockefeller Center may have been a bit extreme in it's interpretation, his explanation of the meaning of the symbolism was exactly right. The images he points to, are in fact representative of the topics, and movements that he spoke about. Do I believe they were put there for some ulterior motive, or some evil plan? No, but he has a point when he says that images like those are all around us, and most of us don't even know where they come from, or what the imagery means. You could say that the dumbing down of America has led to things like that too.

[Raineyb]

45. Beck isn't pointing out symbolism he's making shit up.

That you can't tell the difference just proves the point the OP was making.

[disgruntledpatriot]

59. That's nice

I am assuming you are the resident art expert then. The image of the worker and the farmer, are in fact images of a worker and a farmer. Those two images are in fact all over Russia, and they were most prominent during that country's communist regime. Now, like I said but will be ignore I am sure, is that these things do not represent some kind of evil conspiracy in my opinion, but it is interesting how much of this imagery is out there and really not even noticed.

[Raineyb]

62. Beck was not doing an art history lesson. He was using the symbols as part

of a political point. He's using it as "proof" of some alleged "liberal" conspiracy and it's complete bullshit. Like I said he's making shit up and your characterization of his raving idiocy is at best disingenuous and at worst utterly specious. Your argument doesn't even begin to fall anywhere near cogent if that's your basis for defending the despicable and indefensible (not to mention straight up racist) Glen Beck.

[snort]

49. Glad you used 'might'.

It is my opinion that those who watch beck are either stupid or working on it. I did use the word 'or' in my post allowing you a fair chance of opting out. Please note that the word 'stupid' did not appear in my previous post.

[disgruntledpatriot]

61. Right

You're right, you didn't use the word stupid, you used the word dumbing. Thanks though, glad to see that you are just as judgmental as I say people on sites like this can be. It shows that even having not met even a fraction of the 3 million people that watch his show you can snap to a conclusion of every person that watches it. Perhaps we can let that dead horse alone and actually get to the point of the post. I know that sticking to the actual subject is hard for some people, because it is easier to berate someone for one very small thing and ignore a valid point when you don't have anything to offer.

[noiretextatique]

53. beck, and all the faux disinformers

are nothing but tools of the elite who spread lies and disinformation to keep people ignorant and ill-informed, like the birthers, teabaggers, and deathers. the best thing that could happen to this country would be the prosecution of people who intentionally misform the public for political purposes.

[disgruntledpatriot]

65. you are right

People should be called out when they misinform. Don't forget all of media though, and all politicians. How bout when MSNBC showed a picture of a gun toting protester at the President's town hall meeting a few weeks ago. The picture was carefully cropped so you could not see the person's head, and the news caster said that it is clearly race related. The gun toter was black. So, I guess if black protesters bringing guns to a town hall meeting with a black president is racially motivated then we have more problems than we all realize. It is real easy to say that someone is a liar, but it is a lot harder to prove it. Why don't you stop reading blogs and websites for all your information on people and try to find proof. Prove that Glenn Beck is a liar, prove that I am a liar, and I will eat my words.

Would it surprise you to know that Glenn Beck abhors people that keep on about the birth certificate bs? How bout the fact that he has pointed out that 'death panels' are not really there to talk about killing your grandparents, but are counseling sessions about end of life plans like living, nursing care, DNR's, etc. You say ill-informed like you actually know. Do you watch his show? Do you take notes and check his facts? If you do share, if you don't stop being a mechanism for the hate that pervades any kind of discussion like this.

[Mithreal]

67. Why do you keep defending Beck? nt

[Name removed]

74. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[noiretextatique]

114. that black guy was a complete idiot

do you think they might have chosen his stupid ass because he was black? :think: duh...yeah. it took a little wind out of the otherwise rightful charges of racism to find that one deluded clarence thomas wannabee :puke: and you, and others, fell for the ploy hook, line and sinker. see...they aren't all racist nitwits...there's one black guy :eyes: he should bring his sorry ass to oakland, harlem, detroit, or south central los angeles and see what kind of reception he'd get away from his white racist friends in arizona.
glenn beck...why in the hell would i watch that lunatic. do you know he called obama a "racist" who "harbors a deep-seated hatred against white people and white culture"? why on earth would i watch him...to see if he's right one time out of one thousand? and how does whatever rational thought he might convey make up for the totally irrational and inflammatory shit he says routinely? i prefer to listen to rachel maddow or others who talk rationally all the time.

[Raineyb]

139. I had made that point earlier

Those who align themselves with said racists shouldn't be allowed to cry foul when they're tarred with the same brush as those they align themselves with.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

124. And I'm sure he was "just giving an art history lesson"

The man is slowly going insane on the air, or putting on a good act of it, and you think he's worth defending?

[Chulanowa]

48. So.... Really?

The left endorses rioting... but let's not have any wedges?

Riiiiight.

You could use a little polish. You strike me as someone who's not quite sure where they stand at the moment. A lot of us have been in the same position.

[Name removed]

54. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[redqueen]

51. You need to wake up. False balance is a scam.

You're being played by the corporate entities who own the republican party lock, stock and barrel.

They are trying to take over the dems, but they haven't been nearly so successful as they were with the republicans.

[Mythsaje]

97. The majority of conservatives are not racist?

Perhaps. But the loudest of them certainly are. How else can you explain the insanity of protesting the President addressing school kids in a speech? No other President has ever gotten any kind of similar reaction to anything like this. Are they afraid he's going to hypnotize their kids with his "African Voodoo Gaze?"TM

Glen Beck hides behind his "doesn't advocate violence" while saying things any nitwit should be able to recognize will inflame the craziest segment of the population. This gives him plausible deniability.

[disgruntledpatriot]

105. Really

That is just the problem. People that did not like the idea of the President's speech did not have a problem with the actual speech, but the lesson plan that was posted by the department of education. Of course most of the main stream media kept saying that the 'crazies' were opposed to the speech. I read the speech today and I found no problem with it. On the other hand, I did not like the lesson plan that encouraged students to write essays on 'how they could help the president'. That smacks too much of requiring students to carry little red books and pictures of the leader of the country in their pockets.

Since you brought him up, Glenn also did not have a problem with the speech, like he said today he read it and said that it was a good speech about staying in school, working hard, and getting an education so you could do well in the future.

As for the racist thing, it is funny but the only people I hear making an issue about race is the Left. There are extremists everywhere, and supremacists nutjobs are not part of the majority. Just because many of them claim to be conservative does not mean conservatives are racist.

[Chulanowa]

113. Uh... No?

They had a problem with the fact that it was a speech from Obama. Where were you, really? Some of the republican congressmen were even calling it "indoctrination" - Now granted that was a few days ago, and so the media's short-term memory has already erased it.

As for only the left making an issue of race... Well... there's a good reason for that. There are far more brown people among the left than the right. I can't imagine that's at all surprising to anyone - even the GOP admits that they lack the black vote, the asian vote, the latino vote, the Jewish vote, and would probably lament its 0% among Native Americans, if there were enough of us to actually make 1% in an election. As a result, the left tends to be better at spotting racism, has more experience as to what is racist and what isn't, and is less reluctant to call it out.

Does this mean conservatives are racist? Well, every white conservative I've met has been at best, severely ignorant of racial issues in America. With a few exceptions, minorities among conservatives seem to be some serious racists, at least against other minorities. One doesn't have to be a supremacist to be a racist, Disgrunt.

[Enthusiast]

145. I have never met a Republican man

that was not a racist.

[woo me with science]

117. "I did not like the lesson plan that encouraged students to write essays on

'how they could help the president'. That smacks too much of requiring students to carry little red books and pictures of the leader of the country in their pockets."

You know, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt with regard to sincerity until now. I actually agree with you that the tendency to demonize one another on both sides is the source of many of our problems. I often make irritated posts on DU when I believe hypocrisy and demonization of the evil Others are taking the place of reason. However, you revealed yourself here. You are on one side, not truly seeking middle ground.

Are you aware that even Laura Bush has stated that all this uproar over a speech to students is over the top? You certainly don't seem aware that GHWB gave a speech to schoolchildren when he was President and said exactly the same thing as the lesson plan you fear so much. In fact, he had the audacity to appeal DIRECTLY to the children for help to achieve his goals, with no intermediary to protect them. :sarcasm:

There was no uproar at the time, because people took the request for what it was. The President is supposed to help this nation and ALL Americans,...and he asked for the support of ALL schoolchildren in doing that.

In fact, the simple request to schoolchildren would seem to reflect exactly the attitude you claimed to be arguing for: that we are all Americans and need to work together, not against one another, to solve problems. Yet even in response to this benign request, you can't resist pulling out the specter of the little red book, and you suggest that children should be shielded from hearing THEIR PRESIDENT ask them to help him solve the nation's problems.

Sheesh.

Take a look at this video. If you are honest, you will see how absolutely dumbfounded and ridiculous Tony Blankley looks, trying to come up with a plausible reason that Obama's request is sinister and Bush's isn't. I have scoured freerepublic.com looking for this video in order to see the comments. Nobody there seems to have heard anything about it.

Take a look, and be honest:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlFcV4MgeTE

[disgruntledpatriot]

127. Intended to stay out

Just couldn't resist this one though. When GHWB did the same thing there was a huge uproar, including congress calling for hearings into legality.

As for why the request seemed a little out of line with what I believe in, I think there is a reason that children do not vote. My child is not yet old enough to understand what is going on. An essay on how he can help the president may be completely benign, but to some people the image was a bit off. Since I did not have a kid when GHWB was in office I cannot comment on how I felt about it, but I can imagine how I would feel based on how I feel now.

Thanks for the benefit of the doubt, but your point is lost in that your righteousness is shot down by facts. Democrats went crazy when GHWB did it, but they are all tears and sunshine defending Obama for doing it now. Bottom line, the speech was fine. The audience was fine. Asking children to participate in any kind of political discussion under the age of about 16 is not only futile, but could wrongly skew their views. There is a reason that religion has the tenet 'teach them young' because when you do it's all they will know. Our children's jobs are to learn, to get educated without influence from political ideology, and to have fun. The memo from the dept of education should have perhaps just encouraged essays about government politics in general, as a civics lesson.

[woo me with science]

152. Okay, I stand corrected.

I did some reading, and you are right that Democrats have acted like asses around this particular issue, too. I personally don't remember when that happened, but it would certainly stand as another example of why I was able to believe your sincerity for as long as I did.

You haven't addressed my point though, that the question asked by both Bush and Obama reflects exactly the type of spirit you have claimed to espouse in your posts, yet you treat it as tantamount to teaching Mao in the classroom. Why?

Because children are incapable until age 16 of discussing civics without being indoctrinated? Are you seriously suggesting that schools actively avoid the very idea that children can help their country, for fear of giving a partisan message? Are you advocating that children have no exposure to the ideas of civic duty and caring about their country until they are 16 and about to graduate?

If you are, you remind me of those who disingenuously insist on referring to someone two months shy of his 18th birthday as a "child" when discussing legal and criminal responsibility for serious crimes. Children do not magically burst forth with adult self-control and a moral sense on the morning of their 18th birthday, and they do not magically gain an ability to understand and talk intelligently about civic responsibility on their 16th.

Good teachers will encourage the development of civic thought carefully and in a non-biased manner; they will not attempt to shield children from civic ideas altogether. Especially the idea that we are ALL Americans and that our President is EVERYONE's President, not just President to those who voted for him.

Asking how Americans can help the President help the nation is not in and of itself a partisan and political question; it only becomes partisan and political if adults make it that way. By contrast, treating this simple question by the President, prior to even seeing the speech, as a scary opportunity for him to indoctrinate with a little red book IS an ugly partisan and political act, and it goes against everything you have claimed to believe in this thread.

I personally am disgusted by this entire debate, which is being used for political fodder now by Republicans as it apparently was previously by Democrats. I just wish you would be honest that you are taking sides here and that your responses would likely have been 180 degrees different were GHWB in the White House now.

[Quantess]

132. Please don't act insulted, but, you really would feel more at home at Free Republic.

Although, once you get there, you might want to make a few racist comments, if only just to win their trust.

Or you could just say things like "I want my country back", and everyone will understand what you mean.

[butterfly77]

102. We are not buying it Glenn...

[disgruntledpatriot]

109. Flattered but no

Thanks for contributing to the discussion, really, no sarcasm there.

[disgruntledpatriot]

112. Well,

It has been enlightening all. To a small few, thanks for the discussion. I mentioned my blog earlier, and I do enjoy discussion and debate. I welcome all of you that wish the same to visit at disgruntledpatriot.wordpress.com. This discussion seems to have gotten way off track, and isn't really contributing anything anymore so...have fun. Good day, I wish you all luck out there.

[Jo March]

116. "opponents of democrat legislation"?

I'm sorry. I thought it was Democratic legislation.

And people threw stones at the President's motorcade? Hmm. I think one person threw a snowball back in 2001. The angry mobs are bought and paid for by the GOP, FOX, and assorted corporate interests.

Welcome to DU, I guess. :eyes:

[Ron Green]

119. LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

What else can one say? Your post is wrong on so many levels.

[disgruntledpatriot]

128. Wow

Glad you could contribute. Perhaps making a point would be a good idea sometime. Easy to say someone is wrong, hard to say how isn't it?

[BlancheSplanchnik]

121. Glenn against violence?

So how do you explain these tidbits the following "comedy" segments from Beck's website, apparently broadcast on Beck's nationally syndicated radio program?

Glenn Beck 2001: Rep. Rangel and other people "we'd like to beat to death with a shovel"

A mock radio jingle for the species of grouper formerly known as the "jewfish," containing the line: "Close your eyes and try to picture a great big friendly jewfish -- that is unless you're Jewish. Oh yeah, and that reminds us: Jewfish get real stinky if you leave them in the car."

Several short segments listing "rejected NCAA team names," including: "the Los Angeles Limp-Wrists," "the New Jersey Jumpin' Jews," and "the Atlanta Murdering Rampage of Savage Rapin' Injuns."

A satirical song about the reformed "New KKK": The song details the fictitious organization's practice of "close-to-painful murdering of the dark people."

A mock preview of High Beams, a "five-minute movie" featuring "still pictures" of Jennifer Aniston's "jugs." --this, not so violent, just a little LUSTFUL coming from the great moralizing christian.

You come here and scold Tom Tomorrow for pushing an agenda?

You come here and scold "The Left" for supporting what you falsely claim to be violent "Left" protests, while you minimize the behavior of the "Right", behavior such as:

*people at townhall meetings calling the president Hitler;
*conservative pundits calling all liberals, "Nazis";
*dehumanizing us, characterizing us as evil and crazy;
*bringing assault weapons to townhall meetings;
*shouting down wheelchair -bound participants;
*fraudulently claiming on talk shows to have been assaulted by "left" protesters;
*flaunting tee-shirts calling to "water the tree of liberty with blood"



The list of conservative abuses of democratic process is too long to describe fully, yet you misrepresent the "Right" as innocent victims of "Leftist" distortion, and then you have the nerve to complain that "WE" block productive discussion?



Disgusting.

[disgruntledpatriot]

129. And..

so is the list the other way around. Two way street, but of course, your post is exactly my point. Thanks for thinking I am disgusting too, it always makes a point better when you get personal.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

135. no, the list is NOT equivalent the other way around.

And no matter how much you try to shame me for supposedly unfairly getting personal, I am not buying it.

Anyone who claims that reasoned debate, debunking liars and peaceful protest is an outrage or equivalent to threats of violence, carrying semi-automatic weapons, and spokespeople spinning lies in order to incite violence is a person who earns scorn.

[Enthusiast]

25. It captures the spirit of today's M$M

The neo-cons have foisted their special version of reality on the country, at least on the media.

[pleah]

31. K& R

[Demeter]

32. More Bitter and Cutting Than Mad Magazine

and all too true, alas.

[Fiendish Thingy]

34. another great one by Tom! k&r! n/t

[derby378]

37. Wow...

:wow:

[Jakes Progress]

39. Is this a great country or what?

[BlooInBloo]

87. Courtest of Joe Klein and the idiot media.

[InvisibleTouch]

90. I used to read this cartoon as a kid.

A friend's dad always bought us a subscription to the magazine (both the friend and the dad are dead now :( ). Although we were "supposed to" emulate Gallant as a "good example," I always liked Goofus better. He didn't kowtow to authority. Gallant was just a dweeb.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

123. Goofus kicked a dog once

It scarred me for a very, very long time.

You scum........

[butterfly77]

100. Exactly...

and that's what just burns my biscuits! This is done with the help of the media.

[tekisui]

106. SPOT ON! KNR!

[BlancheSplanchnik]

122. Tom Tomorrow, the best of the best. n/t

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

125. Goofus grew up to become GWB

Goofus was one of the many names we called him in my house.

Nice guys finish last.

[Sheltiemama]

133. Fantastic.

[BAPhill]

134. Priceless!

I guess I'm just another Goofus.

[d_b]

136. I see I missed the shitty gimmick brigade

Tom must really get under their skin.

[Juan_de_la_Dem]

137. Nailed it

[underpants]

144. You tell'em, G!

:rofl:

[malaise]

148. Freaking Perfect

Rec

[Wetzelbill]

149. that is so messed up

and accurate.

[colsohlibgal]

151. Perfect...We Do Live In Bizarro World

It just gets weirder and weirder, we are through the looking glass and God knows what's on the other side. I'm just saying, CNN hired and continues to give an hour to each weeknight, a man (Beck) who is literally certifiable.

I also find it amazing that we are in need of money as a country, we have lots we need to do, fix and revise our crumbling, outdated infrastructure, and hopefully soon have some kind of public health care. People wring their hands and hardly anyone (and approximately zero lawmakers) mentions maybe raising the highest tax rate for businesses, rich people, and transactions. It's the sacred cow and has been since Reagan and look where it got us (aided by idiotic wars).

So heaven forbid, don't raise those rates to what would be a fraction of where they were 50 years ago when we're looking to fund things. No, they will cut social safety nets for the most needy first. Our political system at this time is like week old garbage, it stinks, and is heartless and soulless.

The question remains, when will the people say enough. Despite the fact the nuts on the other side get more air time, there are a lot more of us.

[HughBeaumont]

154. Gallant looks like an evil combination of . . .

A Hitler youth, Jimmy Swaggart, a young Glen Beck and a Cabbage Patch doll.

It's awesome how he has the same unchanging delusional grin throughout.