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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 03:39 AM
Original message
Bill Cosby endorses attack on public education in Detroit
Comedian Bill Cosby visited Detroit last Tuesday to give his vocal support to Emergency Financial Manager Robert Bobb...During a series of media events culminating in a meeting at Henry Ford High School Tuesday evening, Cosby went out of his way to blame parents, teachers and students for the crisis in the local school system...

When presented with some of the real conditions in the local schools, Cosby dismissed them with disdain. What are you going to do about it? he taunted his listeners repeatedly. Parents, he said, Havent done much of anything. You have a child who has gone bad, do something for a change.
... a student confronted Cosby saying, We have no music. We have no art. The comedian shot back with a characteristic curt reply. Get over it! he said.

Cosby contrasted the poor performance of parents with the actions of Bobb. He called Bobb a gunfighter, hired by the governor to clean out this town. ...Cosby made no mention of the local rate of unemployment, which stands at close to 30 percent, the highest in the United States....

Outside the hall at Henry Ford High School, where the meeting was staged Tuesday evening, students from this years senior class complained bitterly about the abrupt termination of an esteemed counselor who had worked with their class through three years of high school, only to be let go at the beginning of their final year. They had circulated petitions calling for her reinstatement, but to no avail. Other students reported that the schools award-winning band and chorus had been terminated at the end of last year for lack of funds.

...A number of teachers and parents walked out of Tuesdays meeting with Cosby in disgust. He has no business speaking that way, responded Mrs. Bishop to the comedians assertion that the parents had done nothing. I was here every day. Four of my children graduated here, and not one of them had books to bring home... There is no music. There is no journalism. There is no debate. There is one art class for 1,300 kids. There are just not enough extra curricular activities. They have gym, but it is not like a real gym class. Kids just play basketball all the time. And the girls really dont have anything. They just sit there and watch the boys play.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2009/sep2009/detr-s05.shtm...

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Tangerine LaBamba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 03:55 AM
Response to Original message
1. Bill Cosby is a big-mouth bully,
who doesn't waste a moment referring to himself as "Dr. Cosby," armed, as he is, with his specious academic "credentials."

He dropped out of Temple University - that's where I first met him - and went into comedy. He was funny back then, and a real novelty -a black standup comedian in 1963? His success has been phenomenal, but he's gone out of his way to strike a pose as some kind of moral exemplar, and, sadly, he fails.

His infidelity to Camille is well-chronicled, yet he doesn't hesitate to lecture poor people about how badly they're living their lives.

He got an honorary degree from Temple, after he made it big. Then he enrolled in a joke program called "University Without Walls," one of those organizations that hook up with legitimate schools, and together, if you can afford the tuition, you can get a degree - one that has absolutely nothing to do with the traditional programs that award such degrees.

I know this because my husband was one of the people who came up with the idea of "University Without Walls," when he was on the staff at Antioch College back in the sixties, working for a program called Union for Research and Experimentation in Higher Education. From the beginning, it was a joke, one of those things that gives you academic credit for "life experience."

He's a joke, but he's also a scold, and, frankly, he's tiresome. Those poor Detroit kids, watching their school years slip away without them getting very much from their schools, and Cosby tells them - he says to children, to CHILDREN! - "Get over it."

Mr. Cosby, get the fuck over yourself, and shut up. Then go away.................................................
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WatchWhatISay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 04:21 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. He's just not thinking straight in his old age
It happens to some older people.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #1
27. Are you sure about that?
I am a teacher and have been told for years that Cosby's doctorate in education was not honorary, that he actually did take courses and earn it.
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Tangerine LaBamba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #27
31. I never said his doctorate was honorary -
I said he "achieved" it via a program known as University Without Walls, and I know what a joke that program is because I was married to one of the man who developed and founded it.

He's a poseur.

Here's a hint - he awarded himself an Ed.D. That particular degrees requires proficiency in one foreign language - reading, speaking, and writing. (A Ph.D. requires two.) In how many foreign languages do you think Mr. Cosby is proficient?

UWW gives academic credit - this is for real - for "life experience." Check out their website - http://www.umass.edu/ug_programguide/uww.html - and take note of their faculty - check out how may of them got "Ed.D." degrees for (surprise!) University of Mass at Amherst.

It's a joke degree, a laugh among reputable academicians..................................

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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #31
35. Very interesting
Cosby is held up as a role model for teachers, specifically because he actually earned his doctorate and it wasn't honorary.

Thanks for this info. I will definitely bookmark it. :hi:
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Tangerine LaBamba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. Yeah, he's the perfect role model
for how someone very wealthy gets to purchase a degree and then play "Dr." Remember how his character on the "Cosby" show was a physician? He loved that "Dr. Huxtable" stuff, and now he loves to lord it over people with his "Dr. Cosby" nonsense.

That's why he moved to Massachusetts - Amherst, to be specific - that's where the UWW program is located.

If he'd gone, say, back to Temple University, where they have actual degree requirements, I wonder how successful he'd be.

By the way, his undergrad degree from Temple - he dropped out in 1962 or 1963, I'm not sure which - is honorary.

The guy's a fraud.

(Don't you love when you stumble across an inadvertent insider who knows the real story behind something?)
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. I thought he got his doctorate at Columbia?
Or am I thinking of his son who died?
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Tangerine LaBamba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #38
48. Not Bill Cosby -
that's laughable. Him at a school that actually required attending classes and passing exams?

No way....................
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aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #31
56. Interesting comments -- Crosby's dissertation chair was a fairly well respected
Edited on Sat Sep-05-09 06:30 PM by aikoaiko
and at UMass-Amherst. I have a hard time reconciling your comments with UMass-Amhert's degree and his dissertation chair's credentials. Also, the link you provided doesn't seem to show that UWW offers Ed.D. degrees.




http://www.jbhe.com/latest/index052506_p.html

Norma Jean Anderson (1931-2006)

Norma Jean Anderson, professor emerita of education and former associate dean of student and alumni affairs at the University of Massachusetts at Amherst, died recently at her home in Shutesbury, Massachusetts. She was 74 years old.

Anderson graduated from high school in Springfield, Illinois, at the age of 15 and then immediately enrolled at the University of Illinois. After graduating from college in 1956 she was the second African American hired as a schoolteacher in Springfield, Illinois. She later earned a doctorate in counseling and organizational psychology at the University of Illinois.

After completing her doctorate, Anderson was named assistant superintendent of schools in St. Paul, Minnesota. In 1970 she joined the faculty at the University of Massachusetts. She taught there for nearly a quarter of a century before her retirement in 1994.

As associate dean, Anderson was responsible for creating a more diverse student body at the graduate school. She recruited both Camille and Bill Cosby, who both earned doctorates at the university.


I'm having trouble getting the dissertation page, but I'll post later.

edited to add: Here it is...

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Tangerine LaBamba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #56
62. You'll see, if you read the site well,
that UWW is a program within U Mass Amherst, and the degree is awarded by U Mass Amherst - of course UWW doesn't offer degrees. You clearly came up with the mistaken notion on your own, or else you don't understand how these things work.

Do you honestly think any academician, especially those in a second-rate school who are so easily dazzled by celebrity and wealth, would turn down anything done by Mr. Cosby? Please, don't be naive. The academe is as star-struck - maybe even a bit more due to the penurious situations in which they keep their employees - as any other group.

He wrote a dissertation on his TV cartoon show. How edifying. :sarcasm:
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aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #62
95. When I read the site, it said UWW did provide degrees (undergrad degrees) and not doctoral degrees.

See:
Founded in 1971, the University Without Walls (UWW) is the University of Massachusetts Amhersts adult degree program. Serving students in most fields available at the university, UWW offers individualized degrees which may be similar to majors offered by other departments or may be interdisciplinary in nature, as well as several workforce development courses of study. UWW students earn a B.A. or B.S. degree depending on the program they design. They must meet all university requirements for bachelors degrees including completion of 120 credits with 45 credits in residency and all General Education requirements. Many of these requirements can be satisfied through transfer credit.

Now maybe they once did and the program has changed. Perhaps you can find some evidence that what you say is true because so far I don't see much to substantiate your claims.

Now its true that UMass-Amherst is not top tier, but still the faculty have control over who they award degree to.

As far as the topic of his disseration, well, I know quite a few Ph.D. dissertations that are not earth shaking.

I see you slamming Cosby's degree a whole lot, but as far as I can tell you offer no substantiation for your claims. His degree is from UMASS-Amherst, its an EdD degree, his Ph.D. advisor was well respected in the field, and he has a 276 page dissertation on record.

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Tangerine LaBamba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #95
97. I didn't remember that being part of the UWW program -
hence its necessary affiliation within an established school. This is news to me, but it's also irrelevant in this thread.

We were discussing Mr. Cosby's doctorate, not whether UWW awarded the degree. I just knew that he got his degree through UWW which was within U Mass Amherst.

What does that have to do with anything?

As I said, I have my opinion. Yours differs, and it's just as valid as mine, although my having been there when UWW was born gives me a different perspective - you might want to read up on the Union for Research and Experimentation in Higher Education, headquartered at Antioch College in the sixties - headed up by a man named Sam Baskin, it was the organization that spawned University Without Walls.

(Here's a very good overview of the history of UWW - http://www-unix.oit.umass.edu/~hendra/Unpublished%20Res... - and I notice they mention "Project Changeover," which - I'd almost forgotten the name - was where I met the man who would become my husband, me being a student with a summer job at the Project and him being one of the people running the conference.)

Your statement about Cosby's degree, as bare bones as it is, is correct. However, God is in the details, and if you examine closely the details of Mr. Cosby's adventures as a graduate student, especially to the point of any respectable committee approving a doctoral dissertation subject that the student himself had created and produced is favoritism without any doubt, and as an academic exercise, with any kind of authority, it fails.

It would be like me doing a dissertation on the novels I've written. Hardly new ground broken there, which is what a dissertation is supposed to be. It just serves as an example of Mr. Cosby getting very special treatment, which is what celebrities get.

Again, you have your opinion, I have mine, and honestly, no one cares what either of us thinks, so life goes on.......................
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aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-06-09 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #97
100. You have made an effort to paint Cosby's EdD as a lesser degree or accomplishment

...because, in part, he earned it through the UWW program. The relevance of the issue is that I see no mention of being able to earn a EdD through the program as you claim Cosby did. I don't even see any connection at all to any graduate program. Again, maybe the program has changed.

Regarding dissertations, its actually very common for people to create their own programs or educational materials to test. Superintidnents who return to school to get their terminal degree often use programs they created as the foundation for the dissertations for EdDs.

If you could show that your novels were pedagogically efficacious, then that could make for a meaninful dissertation.

Now, I get it that you say you have inside information, but I see no evidence to support your claims.

That's all from me tonight. Good night.
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Tangerine LaBamba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-06-09 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #100
101. "... pedagogically efficacious..."
I'm going to need some time to recover from that one.

That phrase has made my vision blur and I have a dull, pounding feeling in the back of my head.

I'll need to rest, and your "see(ing) no evidence" pales next to "pedagogically efficacious."

I won't ask you where you came up with that, but, instead, lean back and count my blessings......................
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Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 09:13 PM
Original message
Tangerine that is not true for all Ed.D programs and I know
you know better. Proficiency in a foreign language is not a STANDARD requirement for an Ed.D., at least, not at the major universities here in Michigan.
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Tangerine LaBamba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 10:16 PM
Response to Original message
90. Well, my husband got his Ph.D. at
the University of Michigan. His languages are French and German. If he'd been willing to forego the second language, he'd have settled for an Ed.D., which is also offered by his department at Michigan, but, frankly, it's seen as a second-rate degree in the academe. So, he went for the good one.

You might want to check up on your information. My Wolverine says it's entirely possible he went ahead and got proficient in those languages - he was already pretty good in German, having served there in the military - just because he didn't have enough to do with his course work, teaching full-time, and researching his thesis.

He's such a kidder, that one....................................
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Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #90
93. And because it probably is NOT as "esteemed" as a
Ph.D, is probably why a language proficiency is not required. I wouldn't demean anyone's accomplishments but Ed.D's are rather common.
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Tangerine LaBamba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #93
94. Yes, they're more common than Ph.D.s because
they're easier to get, but in the world, they're not as valued. Just a reality, a fact of life.

But your reasoning is backwards - because the language requirements are less, the degree is less esteemed.

Not the way you stated it.

I'm just happy to have my degrees and so is Wolverine, and life does go on....................
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GCP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-06-09 09:00 AM
Response to Reply #31
103. Ebonics?
:evilgrin:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 04:19 AM
Response to Original message
2. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 09:30 AM
Response to Reply #2
20. Welcome to DU!
:hi:
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Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 04:36 AM
Response to Original message
4. "Get over it"??? WOW.
Dr. Cosby is morphing into Charlton Heston. He needs to STFU and crawl back under a rock.
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rpannier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 05:14 AM
Response to Original message
5. I spent sometime resarching the school and the events Cosby has attended
-Bill Cosby's gunfighter quote was, "This man comes to Detroit like a hired gunfighter," Cosby told several hundred parents and students at Henry Ford High School. "He's going to get people who've been stealing from you."
Referencing..."the district has mismanaged its way to a $259 million deficit. Its graduation rate is among the lowest in the nation, the dropout rate among the highest."

- Mr. Cosby went out into the streets and walked around to promote Public Education in Detroit. As an attempt to stem the tide of children leaving for Charter Schools and Private schools.

- As to his criticism of parents...Guess what? He's right.
He said, "Parents have to make sure their kids get to school. Parents have to value education."
My oldest daughters are from my wife's first marriage to her late husband. When he died they lived well below the poverty line. She made sure they went to school, that they did their homework, etc.
It's part of the responsibility of being a parent.

I can't find any other article where he "attacks public education"
Rather, he is trying to get parents to enroll their kids back into Detroit Schools.

I don't know where Mrs. Bishops kids go to school but it must not be Ford High School
The High School offers the following:
Band; Orchestra; Chorus; Theater
Computer Arts; Photography; Video/Film Production
13 Languages including, but not limited to Arabic, German, Cantonese, Korean (My daughters could go there), Mandarin
26 Sports and Recreation, including Yoga and Ultimate Frisbee
Vocation Programs and others

It's apparently still not a great school.
But it seems to have a lot of programs.

links:
http://www.henryfordhighschool.com / (I figured out from this site that Henry Ford High School and Ford High School were the same)

http://www.ask.com/bar?q=ford+high+school+detroit+michi...

http://www.charterschoolratings.com/modperl/browse_scho...

http://www.detnews.com/article/20090901/SCHOOLS/9090104...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090901/ap_en_ce/us_detroit...

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20090902/SCHOOLS/909...
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 06:10 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. Too often, the music dies in city schools
August 16, 2009
BY JEFF GERRITT
Detroit Free Press

Detroit has contributed much to music and jazz arguably Americas greatest art form. Unfortunately, the decline of music education in Detroit Public Schools means the city will produce fewer artists like trumpeter Donald Byrd, bassist Paul Chambers, violinist Regina Carter and bassist Ron Carter.

Of the citys 44 high schools, only eight now offer instrumental programs, and the picture is equally bleak for middle and elementary schools. Its ironic and sad that Byrd, Chambers, Regina Carter and Ron Carter all attended Cass Technical High School, a school that no longer has a jazz band.

Benjamin Pruitt, a supervisor in the fine arts office of Detroit Public Schools, said the district provided a national model for music education in the 1960s and 1970s. Every school had a music program. All high schools and most middle schools had bands and orchestras. Some middle school bands, Pruitt said, were playing high-school level music. A few students went straight from Cass Tech to performing with the Detroit Symphony Orchestra.


Over the last three decades, however, budget and management problems have muffled Detroits music programs. The district has been laying off music teachers since 2005. This year, 14 music teachers retired, and the district replaced none of them.

http://marchingsport.com/m/?p=580


More cuts coming.
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ejpoeta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 07:17 AM
Response to Reply #8
13. i know that one of the guys from the goo goo dolls, who are from buffalo,
have a concert to raise money for music in buffalo schools. they also collect used instruments which are fixed up and given out to the schools. There have been studies which show the value of music and art to the overall education of students. They do better in other classes when they have the arts as well. It also gives the kids and incentive to go to school and learn.

Cosby has long been tough on parents. Though get over it seems a bit tough. They just want their kids to get a decent education. I think he wants them to be more proactive and fight for their kids. Schools don't always do things unless they are forced to. But parents need to understand also, that as parents it is our job to fill in the gaps and to make sure our kids are on the right track. though i imagine it's much harder in a place like detroit. I have the ability to be a stay at home mom here and to focus on these things. a lot of people don't.

I also know that we have always struggled financially. But I made sure my daughter had books... may have been from yard sales, but she had them. And we really struggled to make sure she got to go to preschool... we scrounged together the $60/mo it cost for her to go two days a week to make sure she was ready for kindergarten. Still not sure how we did it... but we did it. Though, we only had one kid at the time. I am so thankful that the school finally has a prek program that my almost 4 year old will be starting this coming week. I know we are lucky here though. We have a very good school and Emy has gotten a great education so far (she is going into 5th).
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Adenoid_Hynkel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 05:46 AM
Response to Original message
6. Cosby is an asshole
A friend of mine worked at a book store where he did a signing and was truly vile and treated the staff like shit
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Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 06:03 AM
Response to Original message
7. Bill Cosby is dangerously naive.
Strong art programs serve kids who otherwise would lose interest in learning and often just stop being invested in school entirely.
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TicketyBoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 06:55 AM
Response to Original message
9. You may want to consider the source of that article.
Bill Cosby earned a Doctor of Education degree from the University of Massachusetts in 1976. He has a right to call himself "Doctor," I reckon. He is espousing the same kind of "take charge" attitude President Obama is encouraging as far as taking reponsibility for one's own education (and that of one's children).

Also, that article to which you linked on the World Socialist Web Site has this gem of a quote: "The bankruptcy of GM and Chrysler were engineered by the Obama administration to free the corporations from obligations to the working class. The concentrated attack against public education in Detroit, which is now in full swing, extends the logic of Obamas pressure on the auto workers onto their children and the schools they attend. It is a case of exploiting a real crisis of decay and corruption for the purpose of protecting the wealth of the ruling elite through intensified assaults on the working class."

Geez, if Obama had just let the automotive companies fail, how great would that have been for Detroit, hmm?

This doesn't sound like a website I'd be counting on for any kind of accurate reporting. They definitely have an agenda.


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BolivarianHero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 07:01 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. WSWS is nuts...
Edited on Sat Sep-05-09 07:02 AM by BolivarianHero
The only thing worthwhile on that site is the analysis of Quebec politics (save the part where they bash Quebec Solidaire) and the tirades against Daniel Ortega's well-documented misogyny...These people think that Hugo Chavez is a neoliberal agent of the Venezuelan nationalist bourgeoisie and banking establishment.

And the site is run by some rich guy who owns a printing press.
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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 07:08 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. I agree they are crazy. Do you know who the owner is?
I know that they are supposedly the mouthpiece of a Trotskyite party, and when you read the history of that party, its a splinter of a splinter of a splinter of a splinter socialist party that defines itself by dozens of things its against, and almost nothing it's for. For example, they hate the traditional European socialist parties and communist parties, Greens, Democrats, trade unions, and just about everything on the left you can think of.

How can a party of maybe three guys produce so much garbage on a daily basis?
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 07:15 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. not nearly as much garbage as the dlc.
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Karmadillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 09:15 AM
Response to Reply #9
16. Was letting GM fail the only alternative to bankruptcy?
Edited on Sat Sep-05-09 09:16 AM by Karmadillo
nt
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Tangerine LaBamba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #9
22. "Get over it," to quote MR. Cosby -
check out his alleged "doctorate" - I posted above how he got that worthless degree - University Without Walls.

His undergraduate degree is an honorary one - also bogus - he dropped out of Temple University just before I got there. That's how I met him, and that's why I've happily followed his career until he turned into a self-aggrandizing, self-promoting, hypocritical asshole...........................
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 07:28 AM
Response to Original message
14. Cosby has become a bitter man in his old age, one who is out of touch with reality.
Now he makes his money going around the country and scolding people instead of sticking with his best schtick, comedy. What a shame, he was a comedic genius and should stick to what he knows instead of venting his spleen on issues that he knows little about.

Next we'll see him screaming at the neighbor kids to get off his lawn.
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Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #14
37. He is very, very wealthy.
At the end of the day, he can "get over it" by leaving the school district in question, and returning home to his mansion, where presumably there is all the art and music he could want.
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kumbaya Donating Member (53 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #37
42. I guess you don't know where Cosby came from, eh?
He said his parents were sharecroppers, but they always emphasized getting an education. The point is that it really doesn't matter how much education the parents have if they have high academic expectations for their kids.
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Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. And telling the kids "get over it" accomplishes what, exactly?
And has exactly what to do with the relative poverty he knew as a child?
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kumbaya Donating Member (53 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #43
57. It means make the most of what you have and stop looking at what you
DON'T! By all means, work to make things better on all fronts. But in the MEANTIME...I mean, let me turn your question back to you: how does saying that everything is hopeless do anything? Does it make music and art classes magically appear and kids not dropping out? The point is to start from where THEY ARE and fight for what they should have but making the most of what IS there.
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Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #57
58. Who's saying everything is hopeless?
But "stop looking at what you don't {have}" sounds fatuous enough for Cos. It does nothing about the lack of music and art, and subtly places the blame on the victims.
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kumbaya Donating Member (53 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #58
60. *Sigh* Fuggedaboutit.
I don't think I'll "win" this one and only give half a damn if I did. The point is that there are people all over the world who go to school with the most primitive conditions and kick our ass academically IN SPITE OF IT ALL. Africa, India, the Philippines...Oprah said that she chose Africa over America to open her school because she didn't see the inner city kids as being hungry enough for education (as a whole, of course).
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Tangerine LaBamba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #60
64. Have you seen inner-city Detroit lately?
Have you any concept of the kind of despair these kids have to deal with on a daily basis?

And you have the temerity to tell them to celebrate what they DO have? Like, how wonderful to have a school with no books, and aren't they lucky to be able to get a federally funded breakfast, which might be the only meal they get?

When you're reduced to comparing our kids to third world kids - and how many of those village children do you think rise up and end up as university graduates? You have no way of knowing, because all you've seen are the Oprah specials.

Oprah chose Africa because the people in the US are just plain sick of her, and she wouldn't be treated like a returning goddess in America.

Get a grip...................................................
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kumbaya Donating Member (53 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #64
68. Hey there, Georgie Girl...check this out:
I know one thing and it's this: I have seen and talked to African immigrants. They and their kids may have come with only the shirts on their backs and didn't start with much more, but they are very eager to learn and very well-spoken. They even know English many times and beat other immigrant groups when it comes to future success (although Indians are probably up there, too).

No one is in denial about the inner city. I am not in an ivory tower, to make it clear to you. Far from it. But it is what it is AT THIS MOMENT. We start from HERE. Decrying what isn't doesn't increase what IS.
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Tangerine LaBamba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #68
73. Go away -
you're tiresome, and you can't track a thread.

Boring......................
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kumbaya Donating Member (53 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #73
76. Translation:
I've been pwned and I don't have an appropriate response.

Got it, ESQUIRE.
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Tangerine LaBamba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #76
82. HAHAHAHA!!!
So, you've never been to inner-city Detroit, but you're an expert on their educational system.

Right.

C'mere, you old cutie, and let me have my way with you, you mincing little vixen...........................



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kumbaya Donating Member (53 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #82
83. Alrighty then...
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Tangerine LaBamba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #83
86. Awwwww,
pussy.

Yes, that's a pussy, for sure.

How fitting for you.......................

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Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #64
69. Did you actually read Oprah's response as to WHY she
chose to invest in the youth of Africa? I did and it doesn't come close to your theory.
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Tangerine LaBamba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #69
74. Well, unlike you,
I do not keep track of Oprah, nor do I worship at her shrine, so you believe what she says, and I'll believe what I think.

None of it matters, anyway...................
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Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #74
78. Oh, I don't worship at anybody's shrine but I was curious as
to why she chose not to invest in the black youth in this country and of course, THAT was BIG news! To this day I have mixed feelings regarding her rationale.
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Tangerine LaBamba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #42
49. Sharecroppers?
In North Philadelphia?

That's where he's from, totally urban.................
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #42
55. his parents weren't sharecroppers. he was raised in philadelphia, fer chrissakes.
His father was a Navy cook & his mother was a domestic (maid).

He makes a big noise about being raised in the "projects" (Richard allen homes), but he leaves out the rest of the story: RA Homes opened in the 40s as low rise subsidized housing for the working class & was considered a fairly nice place to live for that income level into the 50s. Nor was it "all black" then, either.

This was when Cosby lived there.

It wasn't until the 60s, when the home-like low-rise units were mostly replaced by high-rises & the neighborhood economy grew increasingly impoverished/welfare-based (no longer "lower working class) that RA Homes became known for crime & dysfunction.

Cosby was long-gone by then.

He grew up in a lower working-class neighborhood, as did lots of people, not some urban jungle, nor as a sharecropper.
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Raineyb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #42
59. He wouldn't be the first person to come from poverty and forget where he came from.
So what's your point? Cosby is still doing his asshole shtick. He's also making a hell of a lot of assumptions about these parents which you seem to be making as well.
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Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #14
50. A bitter man for wanting more for his community, his people???
More should be as bitter.
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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 08:01 AM
Response to Original message
15. Get over it.

Is that not the attitude of this administration concerning race in general? What hypocrisy.
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Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #15
70. I'm sure 'this administration' found "getting over it' easier
Edited on Sat Sep-05-09 08:52 PM by Fire1
SAID than done.
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 09:22 AM
Response to Original message
17. This time, I disagree with him. And yet, can anybody truly blame him?
Music is structure, learned.

Art is culture. Real culture. Not just scantily clad people dancing to some repetitive beep sounds, but I digress.

Mr. Cosby IS correct in that parents are doing nothing, and what I wanted to focus on in my response rather than "Get over it!" about the lack of arts and music (hey, the football players and other brainless jocks need that money).

Like journalism is profitable unless you're a hollywood starlot/harlot/whateverlot.

Schools are doing nothing. Parents who try are usually ignored. It's been that way for DECADES and yet people still can't be bothered to connect the dots. Unlike predicting the future, it's fuckin' goddamn easy - and legitimate - to look at the past and see what went wrong and to turn around from there.

No wonder he's pissed.

And when people offer ideas, somebody else says "It's none of anyone else's business".

Hell, what they do teach in college, about turning in cheaters, is something many DUers frown upon to. Like "Cam'ron" is probably a celebrity here too.

Actually, I still agree with the Coz far more than I disagree.
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
18. mr cosby was probably poor once many, many years ago...he now lives quite the elite life
his 'streetsmarts' now are beverly hills
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. Hmmm, what did he do to get beyond his poor upbringing to become the 'elite'?
:think:

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Tangerine LaBamba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #19
24. He was a black standup comedian
at a time when there were no black standup comedians. He had a football scholarship to Temple University, but he wasn't all that good, so he quit and went into show business, doing gigs at clubs in North Philadelphia, where he grew up, where Temple is located.

Keep that in mind. He was a novelty act. And a college drop-out..............................
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #24
28. He dropped out?!! And do you know he has paid the bills for a couple college students?
Yipes. If he didn't make it, he wouldn't be able to tell people not to drop out...

I know actor/friend Robert Culp got him a break for "I Spy", where Cosby proves a veritable talent for both comedy AND drama..


http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,661775,00.html
That came up in a google search...

I want to believe him when he says "The more you study, the better you do now, the more will open up to you later", but all I am seeing are jobs going out the country if not out of existence entirely. One needn't have any degree to start taking guesses as to what happens when there are NO opportunities.
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. I did find a website corroborating the claim he dropped out:
Edited on Sat Sep-05-09 01:44 PM by Deja Q
http://www.blackcommentator.com/93/93_cover_cosby.html

Maybe it is about petty circumstances and nothing more... except I found it a shock when the article stated he was a failure at comedy. Nothing could be further from the truth, in that respect...

There's still a lot I agree with him on, in principle, but if hard work and study and good grades are to mean something, then it's more than just the working class educating itself that's needed. And those other factions are not coming through with their end of the unspoken societal bargain.

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Tangerine LaBamba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. Yeah, what?
I just pointed out that Cosby got his breaks because he was a novelty act. The world is a whole lot more complicated now, and when he preaches at parents who are desperately trying to feed their families and keep them housed in an area with a 30% unemployment rate, he's a worthless moron without a clue.

Yeah, yeah, we all know that canard about studying hard. Tell it to a kid in a Detroit school that can't afford textbooks. Tell that to a kid who's having a hard time concentrating because he's hungry and there's no money at home for food.

Cosby's been a very, very lucky man, and I'm sure his acts of charity have gotten him the requisite amount of publicity.

But, he's a fool, an out-of-touch, unsympathetic, uninformed, pretentious poseur who wanted the glory of academic degrees but didn't want to do the "studying hard" that those degrees would require.

He's an alarming hypocrite, and not worth another second of my time, that's for sure...........................................
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Rob Gregory Browne Donating Member (333 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #30
44. Despite everything being said here
and whether or not Cosby actually said this or said that, and whether or not the school in question has the programs mentioned or doesn't (there seem to be some differing opinions, if you read through all the posts), I wouldn't say Cosby got his breaks because he was a novelty act. That may well have been the reason he got the FIRST break -- because he was something new -- but novelty acts tend to fade away very quickly and Cosby has been around for decades.

If you listen to the old recordings of his stand-up, which my parents loved when I was a kid, you can clearly see that he was far beyond a novelty and was extremely funny. His television shows -- which he had creative control over (except I Spy), including writing or rewriting many of the scripts -- have proven that his talent moves well beyond the stand-up stage.

Now, again, whether or not you agree with him, or how big his ego may be, or how he got his degree, you have to give the man his due in terms of his success as an entertainer. He wasn't handed anything in that arena simply because he was a novelty, and I don't think luck had much to do with it at all.



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Tangerine LaBamba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #44
47. Do you remember 1962, 1963?
Believe me, a black standup comedian was a novelty act. A very, very strange and novel act. Cosby had the talent, without question, but if you recall what those times were like, you understand exactly why Cosby got noticed.

He got some very good breaks, and had a lot of financial help from his brand-new wife's parents - I was at a party where he was talking about how they were essentially supporting him and Camille - and he lived up to the billing he got. That vehicle with Robert Culp - "I, Spy" - wasn't like anything else on TV at that time.

Then you'll understand how Bill Cosby rose up and got noticed.

And if you have any differing information on how he got his Ed.D., and what it's worth in academic circles, I'd like to see that.

So, do you remember what 1962, 1963 were like?
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Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #47
51. In reference to his Ed.D and "what it's worth" that's like saying
anyone who got a degree from an online university is a fraud! If that's what you're implying you couldn't be more wrong. Online degrees are the brain child of University without walls and use some of the same strategies to this day. I would hardly consider accelerated adult learning programs "worthless." They might not have the same prestige but absolutely have the same credibility as a four year college/university.
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Tangerine LaBamba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #51
61. No, they don't -
I've disregarded hiring someone with a UWW "degree" and you notice how Orly was vilified and mocked here because of her online law degree, as well she should be?

The experiences are simply not the same

You have your opinion. I have mine. We differ.......................
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Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #61
63. Certainly the 'experiences' will differ and as far as I'm
concerned that's the best part of going to college. I initially thought the same way you do, until a close friend of mine started teaching for the Phoenix Universities several years ago. I was very surprised to learn how rigorous these courses are in terms of what is required. I personally could not benefit from this type of study because I'm an auditory and visual learner. The lecture halls and labs (kinesthetic) suited me well.
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Tangerine LaBamba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #63
65. I've had experiences with people who
got their alleged degrees from Phoenix.

It was a joke. They have no network, no background of the academic experience which prepares you for how to function within any organization, and their academic "accomplishments" were beyond pitiful.

I would just say that someone who teaches at a place like that is probably desperate for a job, suffering from agoraphobia, or a complete whore sellout (the last appears quite often on traditional campuses, too).

It's not about the "rigor" of the courses - it's about how a well-rounded individual learns to function within a new world, a different system, a complex organism composed of strangers.

If it were only about book learning, reading a whole bunch of very good books on how a car is built would make you an excellent driver.............................................
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Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 08:30 PM
Response to Reply #65
67. The students she teaches already have a Bachelors
degree. She teaches graduate level courses. You should go online sometime and look at the credentials of the instructors or the credentials required to teach these courses. It's no joke.
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Tangerine LaBamba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #67
75. I've looked, just out of curiosity -
it's like reading a course catalog.

But, it's not at all the same as the university experience, and you can hawk it all you want, but I know what I value, and I know that online courses have their place, but they are not comparable to traditional educational experiences.

Just my opinion. You differ. Life goes on........................
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kumbaya Donating Member (53 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #65
77. WTF does suffering from agoraphobia have to do with someone's credentials?
Who the hell are you? Oh, I know your resume very well. You come on here and go on about your years as a lawyer and now you're a writer.

Where the hell is your humility? I have suffered from agoraphobia. Believe me, it's not something that I would wish upon anyone else. And for you to look down at someone for where they went to college, what affiction limited their ability to get that degree...You just showed your true colors! :toast:
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Tangerine LaBamba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #77
84. Agoraphobia, since your imagination
doesn't carry you very far, would be the ideal pathology for someone who wanted to teach an online course.

Think about it. I know you can figure it out.

And, citing my own credentials doesn't have any anything to do with what we're discussing, but it's darling that you remember. I'm deeply moved. You like me, and you watch me, and for whatever reasons, I get under your skin.

That's adorable.

Listen, here's how it works, in case you didn't understand - you have your opinion, I have mine, we differ, and life goes on. I happen to think that online undergraduate and post-graduate websites - we can't really call them "institutions," so "websites" will suffice -are a bit better than worthless. You don't. That's fine.

Sad, really, that you felt the need to try - and fail -to take me on, but, hey, it it makes you feel better, have at it. I expect you take your victories and moments of ecstasy wherever you can find them.

So, go on and use me. I would never presume to enter into a battle of wits with someone so clearly unarmed. That would be cruel.

As I said, life goes on, but, for now, because you're so agitated and worked up and unable to put together agoraphobia and teaching online, I will leave you with something that I'm sure will soothe you and make you feel better, and again, if you think trying to put me down me in some way will alleviate your anger or whatever it is that makes you run tonight, get on it and do it.

I'll give you this, and wish you the best..................

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #84
87. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Tangerine LaBamba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #87
88. So, tell me about Detroit,
and the time you spent in its inner core. Let's get back on track and try to salvage some kind of substance here.

Let's hear it - your impressions of the schools there.

I am eager to know what you know, besides the fact that you're wetting your pants with the thrill of my noticing you, but, be warned - I'm just playing with my food with you, so don't be boring or tiresome, or I'll ignore you.

Now, tell about Detroit............................
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #88
89. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Tangerine LaBamba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #89
91. Now, you're boring, and your hunger
for attention is just empty.

You're no fun - there's no challenge here. You just want to try to insult me, and you even use an emoticon to prove it. I am, of course, absolutely crushed by your assessment of me. You do know, don't you, that I am utterly and totally dependent on what you think of me in order to be able to go on.

Without your approval, my life has lost its meaning, and you've never been to Detroit.

So, you're just a waste, and now, because this will, I'm sure, speak to you (and it's not even smashed), I dispatch you to the emptiness of "Ignore."



The funny part, which I'll miss, alas, is that you'll still respond to this post, even though you know I won't see it. It's the connection with me, the way you delude yourself into thinking that we're actually connecting, that has you squirming with pleasure. All those tingles, and now you're invisible...................................

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Rob Gregory Browne Donating Member (333 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-08-09 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #47
104. That still doesn't make Cosby a novelty act.
As I said before, novelty acts don't last. Cosby has lasted for decades, and it isn't simply because he's black or different or unusual in any way. It's because he's talented. He may not say things that some of us agree with, he may not be everyone's cup of tea as an entertainer, but he's far beyond any definition of novelty act you can offer us.
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kumbaya Donating Member (53 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #19
41. Right! He is the perfect one to give these types of talks because
he's lived the life. The fact that he is wealthy just emphasizes his points, not negates them!
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #19
72. he became a very wealthy entertainer
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Frank Cannon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 09:31 AM
Response to Original message
21. He needs to go back to selling pudding
And leave these kinds of discussions to people who know what the fuck they're talking about.

And yeah, I know all about his "doctorate" in education.
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Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #21
53. Sounds like he knows pretty much what he's talking about, imo.
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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
23. kick n/t
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inthebrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
25. Reced
Bill Cosby has become a real asshole.

Talk about elitest and out of touch.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 01:17 PM
Response to Original message
26. WSWS again?
One-trick pony...
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salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 02:16 PM
Response to Original message
32. Funny, according to AP - Cosby is going door to door to get parents
to send their kids to school. The district is in huge financial disarray (hundreds of millions of dollars annual deficits), there are concerns about student retention (staying enrolled in DPS), and funding depends upon attendance.

Here are some other sources per Cosby and the Detroit Public Schools:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hLl-x...

http://www.freep.com/article/20090902/NEWS01/909020348/...

Things are a mess with the DPS. Turning this into an anti Cosby "wants to ruin the Detroit Public Schools" story is ludicrous.
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etherealtruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #32
54. It is irrelevant whether Bill cosby is an @ss or not
The children (all citizens) of Detroit have been poorly served by the Detroit Public School system (DPS). No group is totally without blame; however some groups are far more responsible than others (notably the school administration that has bilked the people of detroit for years).

Within miles (and often adjacent to) are school districts that function very well and provide the children they serve with excellent educations.

My children attend a district located just three miles north of the DPS border and are provided with the tools and education they need to succeed. "our" children have a low drop out rate, they are provided with numerous AP classes .... when they take the AP exams they score well ... (I could go on and on).

The children of Detroit deserve the same opportunities! Its a joke to claim they receive the same quality of education as the rest of the region.
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Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #54
81. Do you live in Detroit? n/t
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etherealtruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-06-09 08:51 AM
Response to Reply #81
102. No
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kumbaya Donating Member (53 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #54
85. ...And it is also a specious argument to claim that it's all about throwing money at the problem
Again, I cite the all-knowing, all-seeing OPRAH. She said that she didn't want to invest the money in the inner city because the kids were too materialistic, even though poor, and didn't value edumacation the way the kiddies in Africa do. Fact is, if kids have involved parents, or at least parents who want their kids to get educated more than wear brand-name sneakers, then it doesn't matter if they use shovels as slates and chalk, as did Abe Lincoln. All this crap about not having the same computers, bells and whistles...CRAP! It's about talking to your kids instead of seating them in front of the tv and now computer. It's about going to the library, engaging them from a young age. These things are FREE! And all that talk about two and three job single mothers is compelling, but there are plenty of young, jobless women who are very ignorant and raising their children in a similar fashion. It just is the truth. Cosby is trying to get the village to wake up and realize that some of their neighbors need help.
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Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #85
92. Nail on the head. Except, noone can condone the thievery
Edited on Sat Sep-05-09 10:38 PM by Fire1
and corruption that has been embedded in that system AND the city for DECADES!!! Hell, it's even obvious that the FEDS were bribed to look the other way!! Year after year after FREAKIN year, the media would get wind of WAREHOUSES FILLED with BOOKS AND SUPPLIES that the schools NEVER received. Year after year after year, the board and district administrators telling the teachers to take concessions because of a FALSIFIED BUDGET DEFICIT. WE ALL KNEW it was bullshit but couldn't figure out from WHERE it was coming and NOW we know! It was all coming out of the COMPTROLLERS office downtown and NO ACCOUNTABILITY from departments such as SECURITY.
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salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 02:24 PM
Response to Original message
33. Search Google News for items about the crisis in the Detroit Public Schools
I used to work with that district, and it was a mess back then. It has had the lowest graduation rates among urban districts in the country for nearly 20 years. In the few years it has gone from running surpluses to several hundred million annual deficits. Fraud is rampant. It is a tragedy to the families in the city. There are no simple answers, and it is a very complicated problem.

The Detroit Public Schools district was imploding, which is why Gov. Granholm stepped in to put in place a financial manager for a one-year term. Casting this as an effort to destroy the schools is disingenuous and demonstrates little knowledge of the situation.
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AieinAristuein Donating Member (33 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. Don't know about Crosby, but Bobb Bobb rocks
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Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #34
52. How so? n/t
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Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #33
99. I hate to say it but the citizens employed by that system,
aided and abetted the corruption in their OWN SYSTEM! That is what is TRULY SAD.
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PatSeg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 04:10 PM
Response to Original message
39. The man has lost touch with his humble roots
He evidently doesn't have a clue what it is like for parents to work two or three jobs just to provide the most basic necessities of life for their children, while trying to stay involved in their lives with the few crumbs of free time left over. His children were well provided for and had a full time mother at home. I'm quite sure they didn't have to go to a school like Henry Ford HS without art or music or books.

Maybe he should use his wealth and fame to help raise awareness of how our schools are failing our children instead of attacking the parents and their children. Better yet, maybe he should just shut his mouth.
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kumbaya Donating Member (53 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 04:15 PM
Response to Original message
40. The problem is, one situation shouldn't create another
What I mean is that the person who had 4 kids graduate, did so WITHOUT all the things she mentioned. Meanwhile, I believe the graduation rate for Black teenage boys is less than 50% in Detroit or around there. So her kids still managed to get their diplomas and that is something! The real scourge is the dropout rate. That creates idle hands...
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Arkana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 04:35 PM
Response to Original message
45. Geez, Cos--you used to be cool.
Now you're just acting like an old loony.
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Libertas1776 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 04:41 PM
Response to Original message
46. Geez
when did the Coz become such a crotchety old Bizzaro Cliff Huxtable prick.
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Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #46
71. When he had the audacity to think ALL little black
children could be as successful as he is. :sarcasm:
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #46
79. Back when his son got killed.
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BOG PERSON Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 08:25 PM
Response to Original message
66. .
Edited on Sat Sep-05-09 08:30 PM by BOG PERSON
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 09:26 PM
Response to Original message
80. Millionaires.
Why do we listen to them?
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #80
96. Millionaires. You can't live with them, and you aren't allowed to redistribute their property and..
toss then in labor camps. What a bummer.
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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 11:01 PM
Response to Original message
98. I have lost all respect for this guy
He's turned into a moralizing harpie.
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