Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Herbert Kohl on scripted curriculum, surveillance of teachers, and TIME on Arne's 5 billion

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 12:22 AM
Original message
Herbert Kohl on scripted curriculum, surveillance of teachers, and TIME on Arne's 5 billion
Edited on Fri Sep-04-09 12:41 AM by madfloridian
For years now teachers have been subjected to these things. It is not getting better it is getting worse.

There have always been methods in place to grade and evaluate teachers, formal evaluations by principals and counselors who work with them. They are in written form and very vital to a teacher's career.

Yet lately I have seen teachers, most of whom have college degrees, many of whom have graduate degrees....subjected to scrutiny that is almost unbelievable. If they do a good job, if the test scores for their class and school are good...no one thanks them.

They just say the test was too easy, and they need to make it harder. There are a few voices like Alfie Kohn and Herbert Kohl speaking out....but teachers themselves are not able to speak up. Their unions are not able to speak up for them because they want their cut of the $4.35 billions that Arne Duncan is giving out if they do more testing and do things his way. So teachers are held captive by money that is much needed.

It is about performing for that money, and there is not much concern for the teachers teaching and the kids learning. On to Kohl's teacher surveillance, but first a look at Time today about the 4.35 billion in carrots.

Can Arne Duncan (And $5 Billion) Fix America's Schools?

The economic-stimulus bill passed by Congress in February included $100 billion in new education spending. Of that total, Duncan has $5 billion in discretionary funding. That money alone makes him the most powerful Education Secretary ever. "I had very little--in the single-digit millions," says Margaret Spellings, Duncan's predecessor. "That's millions, with an m."

Duncan's choices could have a transformative impact on America's beleaguered public-education system. On July 24, he stood beside President Barack Obama and announced the guidelines for states to compete for most of that cash. The $4.35 billion Race to the Top (RTT) fund lets states apply for grants that focus on a short list of reforms guaranteed to anger one of the Democratic Party's core constituencies, the teachers' unions. (The remaining $650 million will go to innovative local school districts and nonprofits.) With Duncan handling the ball, the Obama Administration is about to square off with the unions over perhaps the most controversial classroom issue of all: the idea that teachers should be held accountable for the success or failure of their students.

.."But the provision that has provoked the greatest outcry is a requirement that states drop any legal barriers to linking student test results and teacher performance.
After years of dancing around the issue, Washington wants to know which teachers produce the best and worst students and is finally backing up that desire with real money.


Someone forgot to tell Arne that teachers have no control over most factors that affect students learning. They have no control over their IQ, their academic limits and strengths, their home life.

Most of all they have no control over who is in their classroom. Offices can "stack" classes for favored teachers....by "favored" I mean buddies, friends..nothing to do with ability. Make a secretary mad in some schools...your name is mud.

It is not only what all this high-stakes testing does to teachers who in most cases are excellent teachers working under often bad conditions.

It is what it does to the children.

Unlocking the Classroom by Herbert Kohl.

People who insult and denigrate teachers by forcing scripted curriculum on them are perfectly aware that they are forcing teachers to act against their conscience and students to close down their minds. What must be raised and answered for is the moral cost of creating joyless schools that resemble panopticons.

..."the irony is that even with the imposition of so-called “teacher-proof” curriculum, teachers are evaluated on the effectiveness of their student’s performance on tests relating to material they have no control over. No one evaluates Open Court or other such curriculum when students fail. It is the powerless “proofed” teachers who take the hit. This is morally reprehensible and yet the question of the values underlying this kind of teaching and evaluation is neglected when experts discuss educational issues.

Teachers under surveillance are also the agents of surveillance since they are expected to do continuous monitoring of their students’ progress. Continuous monitoring implies that learning takes place in measurable increments and that constant testing somehow contributes to enhanced performance. Whether it does or not, it reinforces educational practice which has no space for conversation, exploration, or the personalization of learning. The classroom becomes a humanly impoverished environment, a sanitized place where students’ personality, charm, and ingenuity have no place. Morally it contributes to depriving the young of opportunities for the development of their minds. Fortunately there are many subversive teachers who work in the service of their students and according to their own conscience rather than submit to the coercive education they are expected to provide.

Add high stakes testing and school-wide punishment for failure and you have even greater weapons of control and coercion. Student and parent anxiety is increased; teachers, being judged themselves by the results of the tests, have incentives to press and pressure their students to perform or even in some cases encourage them to be absent on testing days. Because of no tolerance and no exceptions policies, students who just can’t do well because of disabilities that are no fault of their own, or students who don’t speak English, are forced to take tests they know they will fail. Setting students up to fail is simply immoral, and yet there is surprisingly little outcry about this attack on these young people’s very being."


EXACTLY right, Mr. Kohl. No one evaluates the book companies, no one monitors the testing companies. They only evaluate the teacher and the students, and we must take their reliability in blind faith.

When teachers are surveilled they in turn must surveil their students. The joys of teaching and learning in a relaxing and caring environment is no longer possible.

The parents are the only ones who can stop the mindless testing. Teachers get marked down for speaking out too much. In the Time article Arne Duncan says he thinks changing the name of the NCLB program will help, but that he needs to add more testing.

He is confronting teachers' unions and state education groups as though they are falling down on the job. Wrong approach, and a very bad one.

If parents will acquaint themselves with what is going on, that states and teachers' union are in effect being bought to follow the orders of the Education Department....they could put an end to the testing tension under which their children live.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 12:50 AM
Response to Original message
1. More from TIME on Arne's nearly 5 billion.
A 3rd Bush term but even worse.

"But Diane Ravitch, a pre-eminent education historian at New York University, says Duncan's RTT initiative is in effect an extension of the Bush-era reforms. "This whole fund is being used to lure or bribe or implore or compel states and school districts to do things that we don't actually know are going to make things better," says Ravitch, who is critical of the accountability movement's emphasis on standardized testing. "My biggest problem with Duncan and Obama on education is that they are giving Bush a third term in education." Duncan counters that he is merely breaking down walls--borrowing a little bit from the left, a little bit from the right. "I just want to do what works," says Duncan, who is planning a multicity listening tour with Newt Gingrich and Al Sharpton. "There are great ideas everywhere along the political spectrum, and there are terrible ideas. But that's never how I've viewed the world. I view it in terms of, What's good for the kids at 46th and Greenwood?"
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Wetzelbill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 12:52 AM
Response to Original message
2. Nice job
K and R.

I really respect your work, madfloridian.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 12:53 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Thanks I needed a nice word.
Today people have been using a lot of personal attacks on teachers.

SO thanks for that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Wetzelbill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 12:58 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. you're welcome
I always like your posts, even on the fairly rare occurrence when I don't totally agree, you are always well researched and do a great job.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lorax7844 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 01:06 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. K&R Thanks for keeping up with this.
Edited on Fri Sep-04-09 01:06 AM by Lorax7844
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 01:17 AM
Response to Original message
6. Kids who are taught to think for themselves become adults who think for themselves..
Where would our corporate overlords be if that were to happen?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #6
22. +1 nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Trillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 01:21 AM
Response to Original message
7. Might not only be the parents with power
I'm just an outsider looking in, but it seems the students have power, too. If they all got together and decided, "No More Tests", and all followed through and refused to take even one with absolute Zero Tolerance, then you'd have a little civil disobedience on your hands, no?

Strike.

I'm not saying this would be a good thing, it is just a thought that occurred.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 09:10 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. There are some little things called "suspension" and "graduation".
Edited on Fri Sep-04-09 09:12 AM by WinkyDink
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. I do not beleive that passing the standardized test are grad requirements
Turning in a blank answer sheet is not grounds for suspension. Its monkey wrenching the system and its a good thing
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. The turning in of blank answer sheets by students hurts teachers evaluations.
They often do it deliberately if college is not in the future for them. It's a way to make the score lower and hurt teachers....and yes they do that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Trillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. I don't see how it could hurt teachers if all students strike at the same time.
It's when only a few decide not to take the tests that the lack of some scores would hurt teachers and/or schools. When there are no scores to score, how can that hurt one teacher, or school, more than any other?

I never said it would be easy.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. If it were done at the same time, probably not. Odds of that are not good.
Too many students have their futures at stake.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #13
17. That wasn't the case when my daughters were going to US public schools
The standard tests were required to be taken (they had makes ups if you were sick), but did not impact grades, class standing, or graduation. Both of them turned in blank sheets as a protest. This was prior to NCLB
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. Right. The grading of teachers and schools by testing students is fairly recent.
At least to the degree we have been seeing lately. Teachers have always been assessed, and we always took pride when our students did well on tests. But now it is getting out of control.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. They both did extremely well on the SATs, they just declined to participate in the assesment tests
given the way the district had treated them. We supported their position.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #7
14. It might work, but failure to take the test would hurt teachers' evaluation
That would be a downside.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #14
18. How would it do that if student performance is not a factor in the evaluation?
Edited on Fri Sep-04-09 12:32 PM by ProgressiveProfessor
Holding the teachers accountable for what is clearly another person's act of protest sis wrong and presumptively the union would intervene. Also in high school, which teacher would be held accountable?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. I once had two 4th graders refuse to take the test.
In spite of the principal, asst principal, teacher aide, and parents pleading...the kids refused.

The class score was on my record, which otherwise was quite good.

No one intervened. No one especially cared.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Did it impact your evaluation, compentation, or anything else?
Seems like all involved knew who the responsible parties were.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. My evaluations were good overall, and my kids scored well for the school.
Our school was in a neighborhood with high turnover, and my class scored well.

It really doesn't matter when you have zero tolerance who is at fault. It is the teacher who will be held responsible even more under Arne's plans.

It did not really affect me because of other factors. Now it might. Been retired a few years.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. You were clearly teaching younger children, my focus is high school
My daughters were not obvious about their protests. They took the full time allocated etc. Since they were in HS, no one teacher could get blamed. The principal warned against it when my younger one did it. By then there was a growing pool of rebellion in her class. Nothing was ever said to us or them about it. At the time I believed that they dropped the zeros from the average score since they were clearly protests.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. It may be that students will end up being the only ones who can fight this madness
of testing.

I have no gripe with their doing it.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-07-09 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #18
38. the teacher is telling you: it may be "wrong," but it's being done.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-07-09 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #7
36. My students got together last year.
The 8th graders, anyway. My district made them test 3 times, even if they "met" the grade level benchmarks the first time.

That pissed them off. They asked me why they ought to try to do well the first time, if, even when they "pass," they still have to keep taking it.

I had no good answer for them. Just that I didn't make the rules, and that increasing by a couple of more points would help the school's AYP, which they didn't give a shit about.

So they bombed the next two rounds. On purpose. And said so, when it was all done.

Those scores didn't measure their reading progress. It measured their level of frustration and anger.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
zbdent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 06:03 AM
Response to Original message
8. when their kids do well in school, "Isn't he smart? He's such a great student!"
and when they do horribly ... "That teacher is crap!"

No wonder it's hard to get people excited about wanting to be a teacher ... and the pay is shit ...

Wasn't it a point a while back about how "professional athletes" are paid truckloads of money but the teachers have to hold bake sales for the schools?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #8
27. Exactly. Parents take credit if they do well. Teachers get blamed if they don't.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 09:10 AM
Response to Original message
9. The absurdity is that "teachers produce students". The unfair is that the testing is usually done
mid-February or March.
And even if the students are tested in June (haha), are one year's test results enough to determine a teacher's efficacy, when that "N" can never be tested for that same teacher again?

What happens with guidance counselors/physical education/family studies/driver's ed/foreign language teachers, staff who are UNION MEMBERS on the SAME PAY SCALE as "Core Subject Test" teachers?
Do they simply go their merry way, unencumbered by the fear of job or wage loss through "testing and producing students" of a certain caliber?

BTW: I was both an English teacher and a G. C., so I know whereof I speak.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. "teachers produce students"
You would be surprised how many here believe that strongly. They think any failure on the part of any student is the fault of the teacher. They believe a child with learning problems should score as well as a child who has none.

World turned upside down.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
28. "No one evaluates the book companies, no one monitors the testing companies"
Sad commentary on our country's educational system. I guess that the teachers take the brunt of the scrutiny and disrespect because they're the least powerful, make the least amount of money. So sad.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. Nail on head....exactly.
teacher are the least powerful, they get the blame.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. No one evaluates the ADMINISTRATORS who allow this either. Fire them all.
Edited on Fri Sep-04-09 04:31 PM by BeHereNow
If the schools were run by the teachers, parents and students there might
be a way to save our educational system.

Unfortunately, the corporations who have hijacked the public schools
make huge profits from all the "testing." They force the curriculums
and accompanying text books that THEY manufacture and inflict upon
the young minds and teachers.

And as usual, our local and state government officials are paid off
to keep "business as usual" flowing.

School districts are set up much like corporations these days.
Administrators are NOT educators, they are corrupt individuals
placed in power to intimidate the workers below them, in this case,
the teachers and classified staff workers.

The people need to take back the schools and get the corporate
bastards out of education for they care not a bit about the students.

BHN

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 06:40 PM
Response to Original message
31. You can test students to death, but you can't overcome mentality....
of the parents who think the president will warp the minds of their children.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/4837

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 09:18 PM
Response to Original message
32. Jerry Brown to Arne Duncan....Think Again.
http://blogs.edweek.org/teachers/living-in-dialogue/2009/09/jerry_brown_to_arne_duncan_thi.html

"Jerry Brown to Arne Duncan: Think Again!

Stop this train! That is the message Jerry Brown sent this week to Arne Duncan. Secretary of Education Duncan will visit Sacramento on Thursday, to make sure the state complies with his requirements that we allow test scores to be linked to teacher pay and evaluations, and to unlimited expansion of charter schools. California's former governor and current Attorney General Jerry Brown sent this comment on August 28, 2009, in response to Arne Duncan's Race to the Top. I think it is worth reading.

Via eRulemaking Portal: www.regulations.gov

"1. The basic assumption of your draft regulations appears to be that top down, Washington driven standardization is best. This is a “one size fit all” approach that ignores the vast diversity of our federal system and the creativity inherent in local communities. What we have at stake are the impressionable minds of the children of America. You are not collecting data or devising standards for operating machines or establishing a credit score. You are funding teaching interventions or changes to the learning environment that promise to make public education better, i.e. greater mastery of what it takes to become an effective citizen and a productive member of society. In the draft you have circulated, I sense a pervasive technocratic bias and an uncritical faith in the power of social science.

2. Inherent in the command and control philosophy of your draft regulations is a belief that everyone agrees on what should be taught--to whom and when--and how the lowest performing schools can best be turned around. Yet, there are so many unknowns about what produces educational success that a little humility would be in order. A better way would be to state what educational outcomes children should reach and then permit state and local flexibility to figure out how to reach the desired outcomes. The current draft regulations conflate what must be done with entirely too much specification about how to do it.

3. Curriculum choices are not just technical and “evidence based” issues, but go to the heart of deeply held beliefs and understandings of what children should learn. California's current curriculum standards have received high national rankings and there is no evidence that they need a radical overhaul."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-07-09 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #32
37. This one deserves a thread all it's own.
:thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
demmiblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 10:52 PM
Response to Original message
33. Scripted curriculums, especially in the language arts, are mind-numbing.
Teachers should have the latitude to move in the direction of student interest. THAT is teaching! Scrub that... THAT is when learning takes place. Of course I know that objectives need to be met, but they can be met without this constant force-feeding of scripted material. Making connections is one the first steps to higher-order thinking (IMOH). How can a student truly understand the material if that material has no personal meaning for them? Also, how can a student truly understand the material unless they have the opportunity to manipulate it in a way that makes sense to them through words, drawings, actions, etc.? Scripted curriculum and educational pathways do not offer the flexibility that classrooms need in order to incorporate this type of learning. Neither does constant testing. Sure, the linguistic/mathematical types may thrive, but what about the others?

Ok... with that off my chest I am going to read your post. I know, I should have read the whole thing first; I just couldn't help myself this time!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-07-09 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. Very much agree with you.
It is literally mind-numbing for both student and teacher.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
waiting for hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 11:08 PM
Response to Original message
34. K&R madfloridan -
Thank you ever so much for posting as you do. My oldest is in the third grade with my youngest starting kindergarten next year ... I shudder to think how the environment will be for them in the future.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Tue Apr 23rd 2024, 05:13 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC