Hunter bad-mouthed after wolf kill

[IDemo]

10:10 AM MDT on Thursday, September 3, 2009

Associated Press

LEWISTON -- The first hunter to report a wolf kill in Idaho says he's been flooded with nasty messages since his name hit the national media Wednesday.

Robert Millage says he's been called a wolf murderer, a fat redneck and other names in about 50 phone calls and hundreds of e-mails, the Lewiston Tribune reported.

Some suggested that his real estate business will suffer -- though Millage suspects he's more likely to gain new clients than lose many.

Millage says he has thick skin. He's alerted local law enforcement and asked them to keep an eye on his business and home, just in case.

http://www.ktvb.com/news/localnews/stories/ktvba-sep0309-wolf_hunter_harassment.143dc5e6d.html

"bad-mouthed". Great headline writing there..

[Chemisse]

1. These angry wolf lovers should have used their energy

To prevent the wolf hunting season to begin with.

I can't believe it is open season on those beautiful creatures.

[villager]

2. We thought we were by voting for Obama. His administration betrayed us

Perhaps angry wolf-killing apologists should get their facts straight.

[Chemisse]

4. Are you suggesting I am a wolf-killer apologist?!!

That is not correct. I have rooted for the wolves for decades and I was delighted when they were reintroduced into some of the states.

I chided the people for going after the hunter instead of the ruling that allowed this to happen.

[villager]

8. So... what did you do to prevent it? Many of us thought voting for Obama

might insure some protection for wolves.

On this -- and on other issues -- we were wrong.

[Chemisse]

10. I voted for Obama, although I wasn't thinking about the wolves specifically

I thought he would protect the environment, work to curb global warming, reduce our dependence on foreign oil, and beef up research on alternative energy sources.

I did like the Cash for Clunkers program, but otherwise I am sadly disappointed in Obama thus far. I didn't hear about the wolf season until just a few weeks ago, although apparently the federal door was opened for this to happen back in February. The people who DID know about it - and were not happy - should've been hollering about it.

[villager]

11. well, many of us were -- evidently, you haven't been following what the enviro groups

...did in light of Ken "Rancher's bagman" Salazar's decision to allow the Bush-era open season on wolves to proceed...

Since we have no support on this from the administration, I think other strategies -- like calling out the pea-brained murderers who kill wolves -- is fair "game."

Meanwhile, sorry for the wolf apologist thing, but I get all "het up" on this issue. And this particular issue was one of the early, spectacular failures of this administration, and I've never quite trusted them since.

I misconstrued and thought you were on the side of the hunter, perhaps, and as Muir said, more or less, "when it comes a war between Lord God Man and the bears, I am on the side of the bears."

[Chemisse]

12. Actually I am embarrassed that this issue got totally by me

I didn't know it was coming, rather inexcusable for a life-long wolf lover.

[villager]

14. and again, apologies for implying you were otherwise

But I was a little dumbfounded at the suggestion environmental groups haven't been fighting this all along...

[vadawg]

15. Are the wolf numbers getting to the stage were they are taking livestock

or is it a financial decision...

[Pangolin2]

3. I am a hunter, I eat venison. That guy is no hunter, he's just a fuckin' killer.

There is a big difference. Maybe it's not -quite- as bad as killing lion, bear, tiger, elephant etc. for 'sport', but it's plenty awful.

[vadawg]

5. fascinating creatures, though the stuff of childhood nightmares

ive got vivid memories of my uncle killing a wolf and seeing him processing the fur, meat etc etc, i believe the fur still resides in his wardrobe, magnificent animals that deserve a second chance to thrive...

[Dr Fate]

6. He is a fat red-neck. Who else shoots canines for "sport"?

n/t

[Sarah Ibarruri]

7. He's a dumbass and I hope the dumbass is reading this nt

[flvegan]

9. I hope his business does suffer. n/t

[armyowalgreens]

13. Hunting for sport is immoral.

[Tim01]

16. Better to poison them as part of a management program. Right? nt

[armyowalgreens]

18. Huh?

[Tim01]

22. When the wolf population gets too high, they will be poisoned.

That is the most efficient method use by the state level game management programs. If their numbers are not controlled by hunters, their numbers will be controlled my the wildlife management office.

[armyowalgreens]

25. I don't know why we have to "control" their numbers in the first place.

[vadawg]

26. well if they start to take livestock or end up in neighbourhoods etc

wolves might be nice to you sitting in your house online, but im pretty sure the ranchers who lose cattle dont like them, and if they came into your yard after tiddles the townfolk would not like them either... also i think its down to the food/predator balance, to many wolves and they end up starving....

[S_E_Fudd]

27. 1600 wolves in all of Montana, Idaho and Wyoming...

Is not overpopulation...it is barely viable and should not have been removed from the threatened list...

There are more than 2500 in Minnesota alone...I;ve never once seen a wolf strolling down the street.

This hunt is not about population control, and the threat to livestock is wildly overblown...

It's about people who get their jollies killing animals...

[vadawg]

31. in your opinion, and even if your right and its about the sport

unless you get laws to stop all sport hunting, fishing etc then people are always going to hunt/fish etc for sport..

[S_E_Fudd]

32. Doesn't make it right...

And it is particularly heinous in this case...as these animals are being killed solely for sport...it's inexcusable...

And yet another area where Obama has sorely disappointed me.

[armyowalgreens]

33. Fishing is slightly different. You can't catch and release with buckshot.

[Shell Beau]

51. I am not anti-fishing, I used to fish. But it was for sport. I don't eat fish.

How am I so sure that fish I just got in the eye, will go back to a happy fish life? I hate hunting for sport ALL the way around. Even for fish.

[armyowalgreens]

28. Whether or not they starve is up to nature. There could be an argument made...

That they must be killed in order to prevent damage to livestock.

But that argument doesn't apply to many other animals that we also hunt.

[Tim01]

29. It is the nature of things.

All creatures increase their numbers as long as there is nothing to stop them. Wolves are not mean for killing everything in sight, they are just surviving. And they will kill everything, including ALL competing predators they can. Their numbers will increase until they start to starve to death, unless something stops them first.

This "natural balance" people talk about, it begins when animals start to starve to death.

[armyowalgreens]

30. Then let them starve to death. We should not be meddling with nature.

[Tim01]

Starving to death is a mean nasty painful way to die.

Why do you choose a horrible death for wolves instead of a quick death, and a healthy life for the rest of the pack?

It is your choice.

[armyowalgreens]

38. If we fuck up population control, the implications could be far reaching.

[Tim01]

42. Ok, look.

I have no argument with you, or your way of thinking, mostly. Actually I think mostly the same as you. I have given a lot of money to Defenders of Wildlife, which is all about saving wolves.
But the fact is that the habitat is totally fucked at this point. It is not realistic to say to leave nature alone while humans have wrecked massive amounts of wild forest and turned them into subdivisions.
I have watches animals and humans die of disease. Disease is what happens when animals start to starve. It is long, slow, and very painful. It is not dignified, and it is not noble.
It is easier to say we should just leave them alone, but it is not more responsible. And it is not using the abilities the great spirit has given us, to make things better for our animal brothers.


I am out of this conversation. I have seen a lot of death. And I have had humans ask me to shoot them because they were in so much pain from disease.

[armyowalgreens]

43. So are you against hunting animals that don't suffer from overpopulation?

[Tim01]

44. I am agianst hunting animals that are under populated.

The fact is that hunting has save lots of animals. In countries that are poor, animals and their habitats are not even considered. They are wiped out as per what is profitable for humans. And poor humans couldn't care less about animals. Primitive humans, sure. But not poor humans. Humans don't start to care about animals unless they are wealthy enough to be comfortable.
Trophy fee for an elephant? Maybe $25,000 or more. That money is staggering, especially in a poor African country. That money is enough to make it worth while to save those elephants. Without that money the woods will be cut down for timber and the elephants will will hunted to extinction for ivory by men with AK-47s. Fact.
I don't like it. But I want the elephants saved. I don't want the elephants go away so I can stand on my morals.

I have a very large chunk of land in the country. The dirt is managed by the tractor, and the chainsaw, and the rifle. I am much more of a hunter than I am a killer. My family calls me a watcher, because I always see game, but usually don't shoot. But I do what needs to be done as the caretaker. Foxes and coyotes are not allowed to kill everything is sight. And game animals are not allowed to eat themselves into starvation.
And I don't starve either.

[armyowalgreens]

49. What about populations that are in general equilibrium?

The point of my question is whether or not you find killing animals for the sake of sport to be immoral.

[Tim01]

52. I went out my front door one morning and found 13 chickens dead,

all of them killed for sport by a fox. Predators kill because they find it fun to kill stuff. That includes wolves who will kill for fun, and will kill and maim to train their pups. And they will leave the meat to rot if they are not hungry.
Cats enjoy torturing their prey and making it squeal for a while before they kill it.It is entertaining for them.

No, I don't consider it immoral for the dogs to kill for sport or the cats to kill for sport or the humans to kill for sport.
I don't do it myself. And occasionally I convince others not to.

[armyowalgreens]

53. You are avoiding my question. I meant do you find it immoral for humans to kill for sport.

All those animals lack the level of intelligence and consciousness that humans have.

[Tim01]

55. You need to read again.

I already said I do not consider it immoral for humans to kill for sport any more than I consider it immoral for any of the other predators. I don't kill for sport. And I would prefer that if humans kill for sport it was done for a good reason, like reducing the wolf population so they won't do too much killing for sport, which they will.
I don't condemn the dogs or cats. I also don't pretend they would reach a "balance". If they are not killing, they are dying.

I understand it is you position humans should not be part of nature, but I don't agree.

[vadawg]

34. okay and when they start to starve, then they start to see us as food

and lets be honest we are pretty easy prey without all our technology, but honestly have you ever seen an animal die from starvation, its not pretty, i hope you dont meddle with nature and take medicine for anything or you could be seen as hypocritical..

[armyowalgreens]

35. Are you honestly going to compare medication to animal population control?

One of them is a lot more complicated and dangerous than the other.

[vadawg]

37. your the one who dosent want to meddle with nature, im just pointing out that fact

your okay with letting wolves starve to death rather than culling them, so im wondering if your aversion to meddling with nature goes for yourself if you are interfering with nature by taking medications..

[armyowalgreens]

40. I don't want to meddle with nature because I don't want us to fuck it up.

And yes, the same issue arises when discussing medication. What are the future consequences of the use of medication? How are we altering our evolutionary path?

Maybe I'm wrong about the issue of hunting. But to ignore the possible consequences of our actions is a very bad idea.

[vadawg]

41. you do realise that by culling herds we help to sustain populations

its better to kill two animals so four can survive than to let all 6 or 5 or 4 starve to death, yes it means we are interacting with nature but no matter what we do we are going to effect our environment for good or bad...

[mitchtv]

56. God forbid the ranchers hire someone to watch their stock

you know like cowboys? sheep dogs? how much of this stock being killed is on BLM range land is a question I'd like to ask.I always felt that since much of the leased land is public, that it is not their right to sterilize it. Am I wrong? I don't know, but there must be alternatives.

[Lorien]

46. No, better to let them live.

Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with you??

[S_E_Fudd]

21. Bingo...

1600 wolves is not an overpopulation problem...

[Canuckistanian]

17. Someone whose livelihood isn't threatened by wolves

Has NO business killing them.

I can at least understand a rancher's point of view - wolves destroy their herds and some wolves must be killed.

But for someone who HUNTS and KILLS wolves for sport? Uh-uh.

[vadawg]

19. part of me finds them fascinating, the other part is the peasant child thats fears the wolf in the

dark of the forest, i guess to some people they are the stuff of dreams, others nightmares and others a source of money or sport.

[Dr Fate]

20. Wolves rarely ever attack humans. n/t

n/t

[vadawg]

23. yep mayby, but its one thing to hear someone tell you that and another to be a child

in the forest knowing there are wolves around and seeing them when they are hunted, wolves to me will always be creatures of the dark places, fascinating but still scarey...

[Canuckistanian]

47. If I were in the woods at night, wolves are the last thing I'd worry about

There have been only a handful of credible occurrences of unprovoked wolves in the wild killing any human being.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf_attacks_on_humans

[vadawg]

50. as i said when you are 4 or 5 and its dark, wolves whether real or imagined

are scarey as hell, and native peoples still killed them with enough regularity to show that they deemed them a threat...

[Oilwellian]

57. Are you a believer of all fairy tales?

Their portrayal of wolves is nowhere near REALITY. They are instinctively afraid of man. I should know. I've raised them before.

[vadawg]

58. and as i said i was a young child and the native peoples still killed them

so mayby they had reason too that you havent see in your raised wolves.. I dont know but try being 4 or 5 and in the dark places of the forest and try telling me thats not scarey..

[Botany]

24. Saddest pictures at the link

:cry:

I hunt too but what a sick son of a bitch ...... why did he have to kill that wolf?

Such a beautiful and noble creature.

[Mari333]

36. tough shit, buddy, those are your consequences. nt

[Upton]

39. Why is this being allowed? Just why in the hell is this being allowed?

I didn't vote for Obama so wolves could be removed from the endangered species list..this is really disappointing.

[G_j]

45. ask Ken Salazar

and the man who appointed him.
:-(

[MisterP]

48. Dalek shocked by response to exterminations

"NO DALEKS WERE EXTERMINATED. THERE CAN BE NO CRITICISM."

[FarCenter]

54. I thnk that the wolves should be allowed to increase more

There are way to many deer and coyotes, not to mention stray cats and dogs. There are even coyotes moving around on Cape Cod, and they never ranged the east before, since the wolves were here.

The wolves are at the top of the food chain and would help control these suburban pests.