Everyone we hate is not gay. Stop saying so.

[Prism]

This should go without saying, but since it is a theme that appears here almost daily, apparently another reminder is in order.

Not every evil individual within our Republic is secretly gay. Unless you have actual photographic proof or a police report detailing criminal activities outing someone's predilections, the resting assumption should not be that every conservative, Republican, or person we're annoyed with on a particular day is secretly homosexual.

"I read it on the internets" is not acceptable proof.

Putting cute words like "alleged" in front of the accusation does not diminish its offensiveness.

"I don't believe being gay is bad, but Republicans do, so I'm calling them gay because they'll hate it and all of that hypocrisy" is not a winning argument. In fact, every single time I read that argument, what I'm actually reading is "I have issues with homophobia but would never vent them in polite company, but this is a safe target for me to use demeaning, homophobic language and attitudes, and no one can say boo to me."

Yes, we can say boo to you. And most of us think you're a homophobe anyway. Don't do it.

If you're reading a thread tossing about accusations of pedophilia, and your very next instinct is to make a remark about "And probably gay, too!" stop. right. there. Back away from the keyboard. Take a walk. Flip $5 to PFLAG. You have issues. Really, horrible, deeply ingrained issues, and the next sentence out of your keyboard is certain to piss off just about every LGBTer who reads it.

Don't do it. Why is that so hard? Is there too much joy to be had in calling people gay? Too much fun that the accusation is worth the pain you're going to cause LGBTers when you engage in it?

No one here should require this kind of post, much less on a daily basis. But since we do, here ya go. Stop it. It's homophobic, bigoted, hurtful, wrong. I don't know how to say it any plainer.

[Hello_Kitty]

1. K & R. Also, not all homophobes are closeted gays.

Most of them are mean bigoted straight people.

[Behind the Aegis]

2. +1 for your post!

[SidDithers]

3. Recc'd...nt

Sid

[Arkana]

4. Stop being so heterosexual.

[Bonobo]

5. It is equally true that not everyone that disagrees with you is a homophobe.

For example, you had a thread where you referred to homophobic stickies and when I asked you to show one (with zero intention of being snarky, just an honest desire to see the offending sticky), you jumped on top of me and were so over the top that you even brought up an ancient post between me and my deceased sister who was transexual.

With that kind of anger inside you, I think you should consider turning the mirror around occasionally.

[Prism]

7. Anyone who calls any aspect of the LGBT community mentally ill

. . . has no business even bothering to lecture us on anything at all.

[Bonobo]

10. Did it occur to you that it had nothing to do with his being a trannie?

And that shows your blindness. In any case, it is not a subject that a decent person should have said to a still-grieving family member.

So gay or not gay, you show yourself to be a callous, mean person.

[Prism]

11. I won't rehash this in public

I know what happened back then. I know your complicity in what happened. It was the single most horrifying, offensive, insanely hurtful action I have ever seen directed towards a transgender individual. It was Phelpsian level of awful, and no excuse nor attempt at using insincere grief as cover and shield will suffice to make anyone familiar with the incident forget how truly abominable and inhuman what happened was.

As I said, it's probably best you not attempt to insert yourself in LGBT issues after all that has passed. No one will forget what was done to Maddie. Ever.

[Bonobo]

12. You don't know what you are talking about though.

Everything from your perspective is a slight against you because you are gay.

You project it upon everything. That is obvious.

I don't know what you THINK was DONE to Maddie. But it had to do with the Obama/Clinton divide and nothing else.

Selling T-Shirts that show Obama as hitler got Maddie kicked off DU but it was not something that I alerted on but rather someone else.

No matter what Maddie may have said, it is the truth. As for my relationship with Maddie, it is personal but we loved each other and you have no right to say other. If Maddie were here, she would tell you the same thing and likely punch you in your face for suggesting otherwise, so I suggest you shut the fuck up with that.

We were close family for over 40 years and your little paranoid whining will do nothing to change my memories.

Your vision is colored, you are paranoid and you need to get some perspective.

[Prism]

14. I said my piece

And the things that horrify me have zero to do with the primaries or DU.

[Bonobo]

17. And I have told you that you are mistaken.

[Lex]

50. which doesn't make it so

[La Lioness Priyanka]

47. hiding behind your sister, how charming. nt

[katsy]

6. Everyone I hate is a

mother-!@#$%^&*(&^% cock-s!@#$%^&*&^%$#@$% piece of @#$%TYU*&^%$%^& Bas@#$%^&*()_)(*&^% Bit@#$%^%$# Blow#$%^&*&^%$#$%^&*

_)(*&^%$#$%^&*(*&^%$#$%^&*republican corporatist phucking pig shit.

Speak to character folks. Not identity. It may work for pukes, but look at the pieces of shit that eat that stuff up. You don't want to be them. But I understand the frustration that people feel after being exposed to these hypocrites for what seems like forever. Makes me want to fling poo sometimes too.

Bravo Prism.


:fistbump:

[EFerrari]

8. K&R

[Wickerman]

9. K&R

very nice - and needed!

[QC]

13. Seems like every filthy piece of human garbage is alleged to be gay around here,

sooner or later.

It's offensive, and no matter how many times that's pointed out people never seem to learn.

[ThomCat]

38. Yes, but the people who say homophobic shit

go on to insist that they aren't homophobic, and are still here posting shit. We have lost half the members of the LGBT forum, and the homophobia around here is still rank and out of control.

There's a problem here. The system for moderating doesn't work. Anyone who challenges the bigots is more likely to end up tombstoned than the bigots.

Alerting doesn't work, because straight mods don't see the homophobia, and we shouldn't have to put up bigotry until it is blatant enough to be obvious to straight moderators anyway. Expecting LBGT people to wait for Straight people to certify that bigotry is real before anything is done is itself a homophobic standard.

We have a right to expect that something will be done when WE see homophobia, regardless of whether or not straight people acknowledge it. Straight people not acknowledging it is the problem.

We won't get a solution until the Admins decide to finally take the issue of bigotry at DU seriously and fix the Moderator problem.

Hey, Skinner! Are you reading this? How about doing something productive instead of just purging LGBTers all the time?

[QC]

39. +1000

[reflection]

44. I agree with this basic sentiment,

but LGBTers hardly have a monopoly on being recipients of bigotry.

I see region-based bigotry, gender-based bigotry, religious-based bigotry and good old-fashioned racial bigotry here regularly. It's not something that can be fixed exclusively through modding. It's going to take respectful dialogue, and lots of it. Which is hard to come by lately.

(on edit, clarification: What I agree with is that homophobia at DU needs to constantly be addressed, but I disagree that the straight mods are the 'problem'. My experiences with straight mods were good ones, and the other mods who self-identified as LGBT were generally on the same page as the straight ones)

[Starry Messenger]

15. k & r

Yeah, I don't buy the "It's the hypocrisy" argument anymore.

[FreeState]

16. K&R

Its past time this issue be addressed with firm guidelines from Admin.

[Hugabear]

18. I said Rush Limbaugh was an alleged pedophile. I never said he was gay.

Unless you want to make the case that being a pedophile means that one is gay, which is absolutely not the case.

[Prism]

20. It took about fifteen seconds after that remark for gay to be introduced

And that happens like clockwork.

[subcomhd]

73. I'm guilty

of posting some of the "he might be a gay pedophile junkie" stuff. You didn't post any of it. I backed off when I saw the posts by people who were offended. I want to make it clear that I think the rumors that Rush is gay are relavant simply because he's a a bigotted prick, not because I am. I am not. So my apologies to any who were offended by that. It's a meme I'll drop, unless it's proven, in which all bets are off.

[LynneSin]

19. I correct my nieces and nephews when they use the phrase "That's Gay"

Even corrected my mom once on it.

[Touchdown]

21. Waiting for a post of the obligatory "scientific study" to allow DUers to cast teh gay.

:popcorn:

[TalkingDog]

48. Glad to oblige: .Homophobia associated with homosexual arousal

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=8772014

The authors investigated the role of homosexual arousal in exclusively heterosexual men who admitted negative affect toward homosexual individuals. Participants consisted of a group of homophobic men (n = 35) and a group of nonhomophobic men (n = 29); they were assigned to groups on the basis of their scores on the Index of Homophobia (W. W. Hudson & W. A. Ricketts, 1980). The men were exposed to sexually explicit erotic stimuli consisting of heterosexual, male homosexual, and lesbian videotapes, and changes in penile circumference were monitored. They also completed an Aggression Questionnaire (A. H. Buss & M. Perry, 1992). Both groups exhibited increases in penile circumference to the heterosexual and female homosexual videos. Only the homophobic men showed an increase in penile erection to male homosexual stimuli. The groups did not differ in aggression. Homophobia is apparently associated with homosexual arousal that the homophobic individual is either unaware of or denies.

How's that for popcorn fodder?

[Toasterlad]

49. It's Also Been Shown That Anxiety Can Prompt Sexual Arousal

The study can in no way be taken as evidence that homophobes are secretly homosexuals, much less that ALL are.

[TalkingDog]

55. ummm..yeah, I made no claims other wise.

I was just accommodating the popcorn muncher.

[Touchdown]

75. Oblige me some more. Post the study of racists who want to be black.

Or the one with the Minutemen who secretly want to cross the Rio Grande to pick lettuce for $5 a bushel.

If they did a study on homophobes, then they have to have studies on those two as well. It should all be EXACTLY the same.

[TalkingDog]

76. Not worth responding to.n/t

[Touchdown]

78. Wrong words. You meant to say you have nothing.n/t

[TalkingDog]

77. You post snark. And are surprised when you get snark in return?

If you ask for something, don't act like jerk when you get it.

[Touchdown]

79. Suprised? I'm a gay DUer. Nothing suprises me anymore.

I just can't lose a snark fight.

[reflection]

22. That needed to be said. Thank you. k/r. n/t

[Control-Z]

23. I agree with you.

I just want to add one thing. I have teenage children. They are the most open minded kids I've ever known. My son's "crew", until his best friend died last year, was made up of an Argentinian, a Mexican, an AA, and a Caucasian mutt. My younger daughter has had boyfriends, and girlfriends. And they have all use the term "gay", at one time or another, in a derogatory way. They have also used racial slurs to each other (and only to each other, but they all say that it is all in fun).

Regardless, I still get very angry with them when they do and I lecture them about it. And every time, they tell me that gay doesn't mean homosexual. That they don't mean it that way. And honestly, I believe them. I've had enough discussions about my daughter's experimentation to know she is not in the least bit homophobic, nor is she a racist. Neither are the boys. (The whole lot of them screamed at the prop 8 peopled last year every time we drove by them gathered on our local corners.)

I will never stop lecturing my own children (and their friends) for the misuse of the word and the pain that it might inflict on someone who hears them. I do know, however, that it is not their intention to hurt anyone and that convincing them that the possibility exists, even though "everyone says it", is the biggest part of the battle. I will add, the adults on this board should know better, but I would guess that some are probably no more mature than my teens. Hopefully your post will help to educate.

Oh, and btw, I haven't heard my kids use any derogatory terms for quite a while. I guess, hopefully, they are growing up, or maybe they're just tired of listening to me.

[Prism]

29. I hear you

"That's so gay" is one of those phrases I've mostly given up on bothering about in private. In public, like on a message board, I'll say something. Others will certainly disagree with me on this, but the phrase is so ubiquitous and ingrained in the vernacular, that I feel like I'd be scolding someone every five minutes throughout the day.

In private, with people whom I'm familiar, I have a much easier time of reading their intentions, if it's a slip, if they're embarrassed, etc. In public, you never know the person's intent, so I tend to err on the side of asking them not to.

At this point, if I can simply get people to stop saying it in mixed, public company, I figure that's about as much a victory as manageable.

[tbyg52]

24. Thank you. nt

[muffin1]

25. Very well said.

I wish I could recommend this thread a hundred times. The vile attacks against the gay community on this board (always with the "hypocrisy" label attached) is nothing more than thinly- veiled gay bashing.

I'm sure you are becoming quite weary having to fight this fight almost daily, but I for one hope you continue.


:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

K&R

[the other one]

26. I thought that "gay" in this case was

being used to insinuate that (someone like) Limbaugh or whoever, a known and active homophobe, is actually himself a hypocrite. Being gay is not the problem, being a gay homo-phobe certainly is.

When I was young, gay was applied to homo-sexuals to capitalize on stereo-types. The openly "gay" man was just that: GAY! He wore flaymboyant clothing and had a big laugh. Think Paul Lynde, Liberace...When I think of the word gay I don't think of homosexuality, I think of a life-style, one that I know is a stereotype.

Does that make me bad?

[Prism]

27. Those days are mostly past

"Lifestyle" is considered a highly insulting word to most LGBTers. Nowadays, gay is meant to describe homosexuality in general, no matter what mannerisms a person exhibits. Replace lifestyle with "orientation". Or just plain gay or lesbian, etc.

Language is a tricky thing, but the reason we shy away from lifestyle or even the word "homosexual" is because religious conservatives have imbued them with a powerful negative connotation. Nowadays, we only ever see them regularly when someone is attacking us.

[Matariki]

28. Are you referring to the 'alleged pedophile junkie' thread?

if so, pedophile does NOT mean gay.

[Prism]

30. Among others

And you'll note, within ten minutes the gay thing seeped right into things.

[TokenQueer]

31. Right on!

It's sad that DUers need this kind of reminder but I am more than happy to rec such a well stated one. Thanks!

:thumbsup:

[muriel_volestrangler]

32. K&R (nt)

[theHandpuppet]

33. THANK YOU!

:thumbsup:

I'm sick to death of it, too.

[Atman]

34. Grammar police are investigating.

I hate people who aren't gay? Everyone I hate is not gay? I only hate gay people I really don't like. I dunno...everyone I know who is gay I don't hate. What does that mean?

:shrug:

.

[whopis01]

46. I am pretty sure it means we hate all heterosexuals.

Everyone we hate is (not gay).

At least that is how I see it. Which is good to know, because sometimes I just have a hard time figuring out who it is that I hate... but now I know!

The only thing that I am left wondering about is the cause and effect - was the original poster trying to say that we hate them because they are heterosexuals, or were they observing that when we hate someone, they are a heterosexual?

If it is the latter, we had better keep that knowledge out of the hands of those people that want to "cure" homosexuals - because they would realize that they could just start hating them and then they would be not gay. So it should be ok as long as they don't start hating all homosexuals... oh, wait... nevermind.

[Toasterlad]

51. Wow. You Two Sharp Knives Really Couldn't Figure Out What the OP is Saying?

Perhaps a return to grade school is order. Or is English your second language? I can't imagine any other reason how anyone could misconstrue something some so clear and concise. Unless one were a bigoted douchenozzle, that is. Then one could claim to be confused by something that explains why their behavior is unacceptable.

[whopis01]

58. I thought it was obvious that any post titled "Grammar police are investigating." was not serious

I was merely having a bit of fun with the wording used. There is no need for you to get all bent out of shape over it, or to start implying that I am a 'bigoted douchenozzle' (whatever that is)

I occasionally make humorous posts. This was one of them. It even had another joke or two hidden further down in the message. I find it hard to believe that you really thought it was a serious post - but I will admit that I refuse to ever use the 'sarcasm' tag because labeling it as such defeats the whole purpose of sarcasm in my mind.

I am sorry that you find my behavior unacceptable. However, I am not going to change it simply for your sake. If such posts from me really cause you that much bother, I would suggest that you go ahead and make use of the ignore feature so that you will not be bothered by me in the future.

[Toasterlad]

60. There Are Many On DU Who Post Stupid Shit About Gay People In All Seriousness.

While I admire your non-use of the sarcasm tag (a policy I subscribe to myself), the OP's meaning was crystal clear to me, so I missed the references to the grammar that you were "having fun with". Therefore what I saw was what appeared to be yet another post making light of gay people being angry about something, posts which are quite common on DU.

If you're going to refrain from using the sarcasm tag, you might want to work a bit harder on your post to be sure your message is clear, especially if you intend to reply to more gay-themed threads in the future. Just some friendly advice.

[whopis01]

66. It is hard to take 'friendly advice' from someone who just insinuated you are a bigot

Your message was plenty clear.

As a GLBT DUer I take great offense at being told how I should and how I should not talk on a gay-themed thread.

[Toasterlad]

68. As a GLBT DUer, I'm Surprised You're Not More Sensitive to GLBT Issues.

Sorry you're choosing to be offended. I explained my very understandable reaction to your post. You don't have to be chagrined, but you could be grateful for the advice.

[whopis01]

69. Yeah, I just have a habit of getting offended at being called a bigot

It is just one of my weaknesses.

I suppose I should be more understanding of such things.

I am grateful for what I have learned today.

[Toasterlad]

74. Was That So Hard?

[whopis01]

81. No... it took very little time to learn what I needed to know. n/t

[TokenQueer]

52. Are you being intentionally obtuse?

Perhaps you are as clueless as Republicans that claim racism doesn't exist... except against white folk.

:thumbsdown:

[whopis01]

59. The other poster titles his post "Grammar police are investigating" and you wonder if I'm being

obtuse?

I fail to see how this in any way could be construed as the equivalent as claiming racism doesn't exist.

I merely started out having a bit of fun with the wording of the original post and then went on to make a silly posting commenting on the ridiculousness of hating someone or their sexual orientation so much that you feel the need to change them (or 'cure' them as such people say).

I'll grant you that it was a bit of a convoluted path to the joke and perhaps wasn't spelled out explicitly, but to make the jump from that to the conclusions you are drawing is rather amazing.

If innocent attempts at humor really strike such a nerve with you, I would ask that you try to avoid my other posts. I dare to think of what may come of my "homo(nym)phobia" comment from earlier today about someone who's name was the same as a word used as an insult.

[TokenQueer]

64. This was just posted in the GLBT forum.

"Fuck You: From a heterosexual male; just to make sure you know that we
still hate you. You deserve your second class status, with
no rights and no chance in the real world. We enjoy keeping
you in your place and so you might as well get used to it.
Your anger only gives us pleasure as we plan new exploits to
force the rough boot of oppression on your grubby little
face. Maybe next life you will be lucky enough to be born
into the privileged class of male, white heterosexuals, haha"

...and then there is you. I am not sarcasm impaired nor are other gay DUers overly sensitive. If you would like accolades for your "humor" you may want to start by actually offering something funny to the thread. "I am pretty sure it means we hate all heterosexuals" does nothing to endear you to GLBT DUers. Just sayin'.

[whopis01]

65. I am a GLBT DUer

I am not here to endear myself to you. Nor did I ever ask for accolades for my humor.

I did not make the post to which you are referring. I did not respond to the post to which you are referring. I responded to a post about the "grammar police".

The combination of the wording of the original post and the other poster's "grammar police" comments struck me as funny. If you want to attack me for my comments in response to that, go ahead. If you want to call me clueless as those who claim racism only exists against whites, go ahead. If you want to say that my post is somehow related to the piece of crap you just put up in here, go ahead.

I've dealt with far worse than what you are throwing at me.

It amazes me. I have been attacked because of my sexuality throughout my teen and adult life. Then under a topics about people who use the term 'gay' as a derisive term against those who they hate I make a joke about us hating all heterosexuals and I get someone like you jumping all over me for it.

I could care less if I endear myself to you. I bear no ill feelings towards you, but I could care less what you think of me.

[TokenQueer]

70. Oh, I see. I was right the first time...obtuse.

Of course you are not the author of the post I pasted above. No one is saying that. I am offering it as an example of the kind of bile we face here every single day. You, being a GLBT DUer, should know this. So if someone (for example...me) over-reacted to your post on this thread, you'll have to forgive me. Your intention was not clear and the OP that you were trying to snark was more than clear.

:shrug:

[whopis01]

71. You are forgiven for your over-reaction. n/t

[gleaner]

35. Good post!

You said what needed to be said, and beautifully. Two days ago I found myself writing in a thread which was asking if everyone who hated gays was a closeted gay.

I wrote back that one thing has nothing to do with the other. People who are racists, sexists, and who hate gay people are generally individuals who fear any despise any difference to an insane degree. They do what propoganda does to the enemy during a war to make it easier for all and sundry to hate and fear them. They dehumanize those who are different and by doing so give themselves the right to speak hatefully of them, denigrate their lifestyles, make up the most vicious lies about them, and commit physical violence up to the point of murder. Since the target of this xenophobia is less than human in the eyes of those who hate them, it is all right to say and do whatever they want.

I don't know if anyone in the other thread read the post or got what I was trying to say, but I thought it was worth repeating. If I am out of line, you can send me to my doctor. There are few things I like less than seeing my doctor, the Managed Care guru.

[ruggerson]

36. recommended n/t

[create.peace]

37. relevant thread......

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=221x144867

[Vickers]

40. "You are ignoring the author of this thread."

Oops!

:rofl:

[create.peace]

42. i guess that is hazard of ignoring! you can unignore and reignore!nt

[QC]

43. I don't know why some people around here are so fascinated by their own ignore lists.

They are like little boys who have just discovered their penises.

[Toasterlad]

53. !

:spray:

[Forkboy]

61. I'm 41 and I'm still pretty fascinated by it.

:)

[QC]

62. .

[QC]

63. Some things never lose their novelty. n/t

[Vickers]

80. Oh dear.

I just added another penis DUer.

:rofl:

[VMI Dem]

41. Democrats and Republicans find common ground in their attitude toward gays.

Democrats do use nicer language though.

[Cherchez la Femme]

45. "Alleged" gay is CUTE?

even meant in the sarcastic way, of course

If one thinks a person may be homosexual but has no proof, "alleged" is indeed the proper word to use. "Cute" doesn't come into it.


If you're talking about pedophiles, they are NOT. GAY.
even if they may tend toward one gender (they'll still abuse both) they still sexually abuse children -- which is NOT the definition of Gay!

BTW the term Gay is NOT 'offensive' unless one is a bigot, and it is only news when the target is homophobic and hypocratic about it themselves.


And these bon mots from our alleged allies?

Goddess help us all.

[City Lights]

54. K&R nt

[flvegan]

56. How does this only have (now) 37 Recs?

Well said.

[QC]

57. Because it's just the queers whining about their lack of ponies, probably. n/t

[WonderGrunion]

67. Except the person you responded to on that thread was me.

The OP mentioned nothing about Limbaugh being gay, just a pedophile junkie. I went to great lengths to point out that the vast majority of pedophiles are heterosexual and that the majority of child prostitutes in the Dominican Republic are little girls. I never came close to crossing the line or making the assumptions you rightfully criticize. Yet you never confronted the people calling Limbaugh gay. You responded to me. The one person on that thread that not only omitted any reference to Limbaugh and homosexuality but took great pains to put as much distance as possible between pedophilia and homosexuality

I, the one person careful to make the distinction you wanted, was the focus of your attack in that thread.

Happy to kick, but this thread isn't even worthy of an un-rec vote.

[Prism]

72. I could be unclear on etiquette

When making a generalized observation about a thread as a whole, I'll usually just respond to the OP rather than get lost in a subthread somewhere. It's a bit tidier than responding to each individual instance directly and saying the same thing over and over.

I think I mentioned here and elsewhere that you didn't associate pedophilia and homosexuality, but those responding to your OP were quick to bring up the gay stuff almost immediately. As if they saw pedophilia and thought "You know, speaking of which . . ." and then the gay accusations started flying.