Lemme tell ya somethin'. This health care debate. It isn't a sportz event and it isn't about Obama

[Stinky The Clown]

It isn't about repubicans either.

Or Pelosi or Baucus or teabaggers or birthers or gun fetishists or American Nazis..

It is about real life and death for real people. We all know that the best plan, the only one that will reduce costs in a MEANINGFUL way and get REAL health CARE to every citizen, is single payer.

Everything else is just jerking off.

Yeah, some bullshit "public option" might be a step in the right direction and get us there in 20 years.

The easiest way forward is likely Medicare for all. Reduce the age for eligibility to -9 months and it is done. Pay for it by diverting the protection racket money we pay the insurance companies to the government and it is DONE AND PAID FOR.

It is time to stop making this about personalities and time to start making it about PERSONS.

Geeeze .....

[niyad]

1. right there with you. I want universal health care, like all the civilized countries have

[FiveGoodMen]

2. 100% agreed!

[Laelth]

3. As I have said before, to many people in DC, politics is a game.

The sole goal of the political game is to help our team (the ones in the blue jerseys) win. It's not about doing anything good for the American people. You can hear this sentiment all the time, even on DU.

"You must be a freeper who hates Obama if you don't support what he's doing"

"DK is a whiner. He should be supporting the President."

"If we don't pass health insurance reform, we will lose in 2010."

It goes on and on. They just want to win. They would rather pass a horrible bill that hurts more Americans than it helps just so they can say "Obama won."

Their only core belief is that their team should win. I suppose they have some values (if we can pick up 20 more Senate seats and 50 more House seats then we can pass solid, liberal legislation!), but they always believe that "winning" must come before working toward the actualization of those values. In the end, their values are completely overwhelmed by their desire to "win" at all costs, and to hell with the people.

I saw a thread earlier in which Rahm was screaming at the leaders of liberal organizations saying, "We are 13-0 going into health care." Rahm was mad about ads being run by liberal organizations against conservative Democrats, but you can see his mind-set. 13-0? Like a football team that's having a killer season.

It's a game to him. I hope it's not a game to the President.

:dem:

-Laelth

[Stinky The Clown]

7. Oftentimes it is a game. And oftentimes, it doesn't much matter.

But every once in a while, it does.

This is one of those once in a whiles. This is the best chance we have had for this "holy grail" in at least a generation. Now is the time to do the right thing, not the strategic thing.

But ya know .... funny thing is, if ya do the right thing, the strategery just falls into place.

By the way, while I do, indeed, sense some gamesmanship on our side of this debate, I don't think the president is wholly callous about it. I just think he's somewhat off key, but generally singing from the a same sheet of music.

I know ..... preaching to the choir. Thanks for a thoughtful reply to my post. They're few and far between, of late.

[Laelth]

10. My pleasure.

Even Jim Wright, Speaker of the House, conservative Democrat, and a complete bastard, was known to say, "Every once in a while a politician needs to do something good for the people."

This, I think, is one of those times.

:dem:

-Laelth

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

4. "It's about real life and real death for real people" - to you and me maybe

and for most of the people who post here.

But for many it is the equivalent of a game. Like when that asshole Carville says let reform go down and blame the Republicans and use it to get MORE seats next time - for why? To blow it again so that we can blame it on them again and get MORE seats and then we can blow it again and . . .

For some if not most of the people in office it is not about life and death. You stated the right thing to do. You know it. I know it. The American people know it. The medical industry knows it. The rest of the world knows it. But there's NO MONEY in single payer for the pols. That's why they just strangely can't seem to figure it all out.

They could pass a 3 page law that opens up Medicare to anyone who is uninsured.

They don't do it because they don't want to do. None of them. It doesn't matter if you are talking Republican or Democrat. We have to retain our "Uniquely American" system of corrupting Congress with health industry dollars.

[Stinky The Clown]

12. That's a piece of this that REALLY frosts my ass.

They ALL know the right thing to do. Everyone from that fuckward, Grassley to Boxer. They all know.

This is where this discussion quickly takes you to abnother discussion .... public campaign finance.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

13. Right. This discussion does take you right there.

Where you have the people who profit from the legal(because they say it is) bribery in charge of legislating an end to the legal (because they say it is) bribery.

All good things must come to an end and I think the Dems and Repubs have flogged the public pony just about as far as it will take them without collapsing.

[bvar22]

5. K&R to +19

It IS that simple !

[walldude]

6. Funny you should use the sports analogy

I was just reading about some hack who was yelling about competition and "winning" in the health care industry.

Yes football is just like cancer, the team with the most money and most power wins and the other one... dies. :eyes:

oh and K&R

[kenny blankenship]

8. Sure but with the low information posters, you may as well be arguing with the dining room table

[Romulox]

9. What is so unique about us that Single Payer "can't work" here?

A: The degree to which our politicians are bought and sold.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

11. B. The degree the population puts up with your A. nt

[tnlefty]

14. When I hear the bullshit about 'killing Grandma' and 'death panels'

and 'rationing care to the elderly' my blood begins to boil.

My Mom dealt with Hospice of Chattanooga in its infancy when the wingnuts around here didn't want any part of it - they're gonna kill people instead of keeping them in the hospital and prolonging life as long as possible. The Schiavo fiasco was the last straw for my republican mother. My stepfather was allowed to die at home, and I was in the thick of it with my Mom caring for him. She became disgusted with the republican party and refuses to vote for them anymore, unless they regain some sense of sanity.

My MIL had 2 hip replacements, was treated for cancer, until it was out of control. She went home from the hospital in early June with her requests blatantly posted on the 'fridge, and she died earlier this month with Hospice care. Every bit of her care was covered by Medicare.

These crazy-assed arguments are just so much bullshit, and every American should be entitled the privacy to determine their end of life decisions and the type of care that was available to my MIL. I would love to have that as opposed to being stiffed and shafted by BCBS of TN.

I've actually had to fight BCBS over something as simple as strep throat when my kids were younger. :crazy: