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Thickasabrick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 10:09 PM
Original message
How many would buy insurance if it was law and we had no public
option? What if you couldn't afford it but on paper it looked like you could?
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 10:11 PM
Response to Original message
1. I'm just praying in that case that they don't fold up Medicaid, since that is my current insurance.
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Thickasabrick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. I have a friend who's son is diabled and relies heavily on medicaid...
and that is his biggest concern about this.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 10:12 PM
Response to Original message
2. I'm thinking that we might find out the answer to that question in the relatively near future.
n/t
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 10:14 PM
Response to Original message
3. That may not be an option. Insurance is a club. You have to be accepted.
And they can kick you out anytime you misbehave, like get sick.
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Justitia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 10:15 PM
Response to Original message
4. I just don't see how a "mandate" & "corporate product" could be constitutional.
If there is no public option, how could there be a mandate to buy a private product from a private, for profit, corporation?

I'd say, it's DOA (and it should be in that case).
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Thickasabrick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. I was thinking like that but then I remembered about car insurance
that's a must too and it's all private.
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Justitia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. major differences: you only buy car ins if you drive - and - it is liability to others
With car insurance, you are only mandated to purchase it IF you drive a car. Not by simply living & breathing.

Also, car ins is mandated only for liability, so that someone else can recover damages if you hurt them, whereas health insurance is for YOU, and it's not liability if you hurt someone ELSE.

It's really apples to oranges.
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Thickasabrick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Good points and you are right , which is good. This really would
be unprecedented.
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DJ13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #7
19. Car insurance is mandated by states
Having the Federal government mandate private insurance is a totally different set of laws.
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yodoobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 02:06 AM
Response to Reply #7
29. car insurance is different
Edited on Fri Aug-21-09 02:06 AM by yodoobo
If you don't buy car insurance, you just don't get to drive.

If you don't buy health insurance, you just don't get to .....live?


In many states you agree to this with the paperwork you sign when you license a car or get a drivers license. You can't ask a baby to sign paperwork as a condition of birth of course.

See the analogy is really broken.


Most likely it'll simply be passed as a tax on those who refuse or cannot afford health insurance. Enforcement will be similar to those who refuse to get an SSN number where they lose personal deductions etc.

The constitutionality of taxing is well established so and SC challenges will be unsuccessful.

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LiberalFighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #4
14. Mandating buying from a private company should be DOA.
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The Straight Story Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 10:16 PM
Response to Original message
6. I won't buy it, they cannot force me to either
:)
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yodoobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 02:10 AM
Response to Reply #6
30. enforcement will be via tax
Essentially people who refuse or cannot afford insurance, will be subject to a tax surcharge.

Its similar to the SSN number.

We can refuse to get an SSN number, but then we lose personal deductions and are locked out of the banking system and other privileges.

Since the legality of taxation is well established, this would be easiest way to force everyone to pitch in on insurance and create the largest risk pools possible.

I think it will be one of life many things, where they can't force you you do it, but they can make you wish you did.



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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 10:18 PM
Response to Original message
8. IF it becomes law, then would a medical facility have to treat you if you had none, or
could you be ticketed or fined for not having any when going for care. how would that stop people from getting aid they need
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Thickasabrick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #8
20. I'm thinking they would still have to but people would get giant fines
or something.
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izquierdista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 10:20 PM
Response to Original message
9. I would leave
I don't need much urging to move to Europe; that would be the last straw.
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Raineyb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 10:21 PM
Response to Original message
10. With what money? You can't force blood from a stone. n/t
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yodoobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 02:12 AM
Response to Reply #10
31. The IRS is quite adept at getting blood from stones
Its likely the IRS will be the enforcement point of mandated coverage.

not a particularly pleasant thought though.

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mwooldri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 10:26 PM
Response to Original message
13. I have to have health coverage for my family.
That's the bottom line.

Whatever it takes, I'm afraid. Law or no law, my son has special needs and he needs the help.

If the insurance was mandated then it had better be affordable - like means tested.
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Ms. Toad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #13
21. Ditto.
$50,000 in medical expenses a year - gotta have insurance (or universal care). Pretty much regardless of what it costs.
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TicketyBoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 10:28 PM
Response to Original message
15. If it was law?
Then maybe there would be no choice?

If given an option, I'd have to study the plan before deciding.
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Thickasabrick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Of course there is a choice - people could "choose" to break the
law, which I was wondering how many of us would say that. Republican answer is kinda a given.
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TicketyBoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 01:48 AM
Response to Reply #17
27. Well, in that case
I'd have to study the plan and the penalty!
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NYC_SKP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 10:30 PM
Response to Original message
16. I do it now. nt
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Thickasabrick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Ahhh, the state already mandates it. How's that working out?
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NYC_SKP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #18
23. More accurately...
Edited on Wed Aug-19-09 11:07 PM by NYC_SKP
It's not by law. I misread your question and didn't catch that part.

Right now I choose to use my $200 monthly allowance to pay for a COBRA blue cross plan that costs $388.month.


Here is the former situation before I left the county job:

It's a condition of the job that we purchase through the county and choose from the plans negotiated by the union.

We are not free to take our county contribution and shop for better deals.

I am forced to pay as an individual the same amount as an employee getting coverage for a full family.

It doesn't seem fair, and it's not universal in other county jobs, it's just the way it was negotiated.
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salguine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 10:39 PM
Response to Original message
22. Maybe they'll eradicate homelessness by forcing homeless people to buy houses.
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TygrBright Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-20-09 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. BRILLIANT!! And we can pass a law requiring the starving to buy food!
We could finally END HUNGER!

Wow!! There's no limit!

Let's pass a law making terrorism ILLEGAL!!

oh, wait...


ironically,
Bright
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-20-09 12:11 AM
Response to Original message
25. I would commit civil disobedience by refusing to buy it
It's pure corporate welfare. If enough people refused (obviously not people who need expensive meds or anything, but we health people) to buy it, the idea would collapse.
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notesdev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-20-09 12:18 AM
Response to Original message
26. I really find it hard to believe that
a) they would actually put people in jail and make them criminals for having no insurance (pure fascism, by the way, according to the classical definition)... a quicker path to making the policy universally despised I cannot imagine; or

b) they could successfully fine people for not having insurance, at most one out of a thousand uninsured can probably actually afford it, no matter what some bureaucrat looking over tables published in D.C. thinks. If they handed out such fines they'd go unpaid and any effort to collect would lose money.

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TicketyBoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 01:52 AM
Response to Original message
28. It is likely
that it will come directly out of your paycheck, just like FICA and income tax withholding.
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quiller4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 02:13 AM
Response to Original message
32. I would and for the same reason I do now even though it puts
a strain on the budget--can't afford not to if you have any chronic conditions. I don't look on paper like we can afford to pay what we do. We just cut elsewhere.
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