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Barack Obama, You FOOLED ME, And I Apologize UPDATE: Now Breaking On AC360!!!!!

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WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:18 PM
Original message
Barack Obama, You FOOLED ME, And I Apologize UPDATE: Now Breaking On AC360!!!!!
Edited on Tue Aug-18-09 09:04 PM by WeDidIt
Damn.

John Stewart was right.

You're a fucking Jedi Knight ten steps ahead of everybody fucking else.

You KNEW what was going to happen at those town hall meetings during the slow news month of August.

You KNEW the Republicans would start feeling confident that they could knock you out while they had you on the ropes.

You KNEW whacked out Birthers and Deathers and Teabaggers were going to project their ignorant assed bullshit on eveyrbody.

And I'll even bet you KNEW Charles "I Tweet Dumb Shit" Grassley would fucking BRAG about how he wasn't negotiating in good faith.

Well, August is now more than half over.

You already have the chief REpublican negotiator for bipartisanship in health care reform saying he wasn't negotiating in good faith, AND THEN ADMITTING THERE WAS NO WAY HE'D VOTE FOR ANY BILL!

Your ducks are all in a row.

You now have every right to say, "we negotiated in good faith with the Republicans to develop health care reform legislation. You now have the chief negotiator bragging about how he wasn't negotiating in good faith but was rather using some sort of stalling tactic to slow down the legislation and even admitting there is no bill we could come up with that he'd vote for. Health care reform is simply too important for this kind of gamesmanship, so the Democratic Caucus in the Congress now has no choice but to go it alone. We'll now develop the legislation that Democrats can vote for and pass that however we have to."

BOOM GOES THE DYNAMITE!

Masterful.

The Force is STRONG in you!

I'm sorry I ever doubted you.



UPDATED Sources: Dems consider pushing thorugh health care reform without GOP support.
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DevonRex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:21 PM
Response to Original message
1. I think you're onto something here.
And thank you for your positive post.
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timeforpeace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #1
72. Yes, every single thing that HAS HAPPENED was part of HIS PLAN. Brilliant!
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BREMPRO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #72
189. He's a chess player, always 10 moves ahead of his opponents
His tone and rational fact based advocacy, passion and persistence are another part of his brilliance.

I do think he made two mistakes- one was the whole 'stupid cops" episode that distracted everyone from the health care debate
and two, trying to get a bill passed before the recess- too much of an opportunity for the repukes to say that he's trying to rush an important issue through without debate.
I do agree that some pressure on congress was necessary.

I also think he's adapted his strategy to reflect the current circumstances. Here he is showing the quality of intellect and political skill we supported him for. By letting the discussion on the issues play out and timing his thoughtful and passionate response with finesse, he's brilliantly played the MSM and lured his opponents into making them look like obstructionists and loonies.


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butterfly77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #189
216. This always happens..
the media loves to tell us what he thinks then runs away with it..Happened throughout the campaign and that is what they don't like.
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GoCubsGo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #216
254. I'm even starting to hear the old...
..."Why can't Obama close the deal?" crap again. You know...like he couldn't 'close the deal' back in November. Time to turn off the TV, if you haven't done so already.
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SemperEadem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #72
197. I think his tack was to allow the thugs to expose themselves
and they're playing directly into his hands. That's how simple-minded the thugs are. They've totally exposed themselves.

also to add: GM has recalled 1,350 workers due to the "cash for clunkers" program reducing inventory across the country.

Obama knows what he's doing--his 'hang time' is a marvelous thing to witness.
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rucognizant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #197
219. Well Yuuh!
If they weren't simple minded their ideology would be different!
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 06:13 AM
Response to Reply #1
157. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
CaliforniaPeggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:21 PM
Response to Original message
2. Oh, how I hope you're right.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #2
76. The Republicans have been having an orgy of negativity and hatefulness.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:22 PM
Response to Original message
3. The rope-a-dope wins again--I hope. I truly believe Obama, in his heart of hearts,
wants a Medicare-esque plan--and he knows just how to get it.

Still, I'm crossing my fingers just in case.
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panader0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:22 PM
Response to Original message
4. Hope Springs Eternal
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timeforpeace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #4
87. A couple days ago he said "whether the public option is in the plan or not". Is that part of the
scheme also?
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yodermon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #87
110. well it certainly gave cover to the "well we're still negotiating with the repukes
so who knows how this will play out" theme.
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 01:07 AM
Response to Reply #87
136. It kinda forces Republicans to say that they wouldn't support the co-op either
Indeed, the major point coming out of the news today was that the GOP won't support anything. If you say public option is a necessity, you give the GOP a target. If you make it fuzzy, you force them to declare their opposition to everything, which puts them in precisely the bind with respect to reconciliation. I don't know if it was a move, but if it was, it's not a bad move.
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drm604 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #136
184. I think you may be right.
Edited on Wed Aug-19-09 10:04 AM by drm604
If you think of it as being a strategy to get the Repubs to come out as being against anything then it all suddenly makes sense.

And once they've come out as against anything then you can safely throw them overboard.

It also casts a whole new light on the seemingly ridiculous insistence on bipartisanship.

"We tried, but they're being stubborn for stubborn's sake."
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MadMaddie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #136
235. So this would be the ideal time to come out with commericals
with Grassley and the other Repugs saying they won't support healthcare, but they will support letting the Insurance companies kill Americans....and then the commercial shows real Americans dying from rejected claims.

Who the hell is the Dems media person or group they should be all over this by now...
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #235
240. Why don't you apply for the job?
:shrug:
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MadMaddie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #240
242. Not sure why you are being snarky to me? It's a fact that during
the election we had a hell of an action team that addressed all of the bullshit that came from the right. You do remember that don't you?

You have to admit that we have not had a strong commercial presence during the last month. Meanwhile the right talking heads just keep pounding their bullshit lies.

Now having said that I do have a communications degree and am quite aware of the field. I am currently blessed to have a great IT Project job and I work with people I really like so that's why I am not involved in that field.

Still not clear why you are attacking the truth and me for that matter?
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #242
243. "Attacking the truth and me"
:rofl:

That's fucking fantastic.

Oy, my sides hurt.

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MadMaddie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #243
248. So it's amusing to me that you didn't answer my question
Can you admit that the Democratic Party and the WH have had a failure to respond effectively over the last month?

I don't see you suggesting anything?
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #248
249. You said "You have to admit"
It wasn't a question. It was an order. I ignored it like I ignore all panicked and stupid pseudo-imperatives.
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MadMaddie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #249
260. Hmm and you could have simply not gotten so defensive and
take it as an order..

By the way I was under the impression we were having a conversation...you can agree or disagree it doesn't matter to me.

This is the question, is it simple and clear enough for you? Oh wait, the previous sentence might be seen as a demand....yawn...

Do you believe that the administration dropped the ball in counter attacking the lies about healthcare?

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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #260
261. No
Not particularly. Could some things be handled better? Sure. It is such in every tough fight. So what? It has been a continues to be a mighty effort, and we'll likely end up with something that will actually help millions of people. Might not be the prettiest thging to watch - especially for some imbeciles who think it is all a game for their amusement, but I find such people trite and ridiculous. They infest this board in great numbers, of course.

As for being "defensive," I can't imagine what on earth you're even yammering about. You said you asked a question. You didn't. You stated something as fact/imperative.


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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #87
196. Well, we will know soon enough.
Edited on Wed Aug-19-09 12:19 PM by truedelphi
I like that the OP mentions Jon Stewart. However, the much better segment of Jon's program last night was focused on how Obama effectively couldn't talk down the little rich preppie boy attending Univ. Of Colorado at Boulder.

If some trust fund baby is attacking the "public option" saying how can insurance comapnies compete with public option, why didn't Obama HAMMER home these two points

1) well, you are attending the PUBLIC option for students and yet private universities and colleges continue to exist
2) Far more important than the "Competition" factor to the insurance companies is the health of every American. Let me repeat that, the ehalth of every American is our goal, and that requires the public option.

I stole Jon's idea for number one.

Obama should be totally able to smack these people down. Like Jon was saying, if the Repugs could stay on message, with their "sell" on the Iraqi war, why can't Dems stay on message? (Well for one thing, it is the party of the WIMPS.)

What could be more horrible than continuing to let the carnage occur - right now 18,000 people die every year from no insurance. Probably a similar number die from treatments denied, coverage retroactively evaporates, treatments stalled, cheaper treatments that are not at all effective are paid for but the effective ones are deemed "Experimental", etc.

Why can't Obama HAMMER these points home. He looked wishy washy answering that rich trust fund kid - who ain't gonna vote for him anyway. Grow some, Mr President, or you won't see this non-rich kid voting for ya any more.





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NYC_SKP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #87
231. He said it's not the entirety of health care reform. It is a fact, not a position.
But the only point I wanted to make was the notion that somehow just by having a public option you have the entire private marketplace destroyed is just not borne out by the facts.

And in fact, right now youve got a lot of private companies who do very well competing against the government.

UPS and FedEx are doing a lot better than the post office.

No, they are. And so but the larger point I want to make and its good to see a young person whos very engaged and confident challenging the President to a Oxford-style debate, I think this is good.

You know, the this is good. You know, I like that. You got to have a little chutzpah, you know.

This is a legitimate debate to have.

All Im saying is, though, that the public option, whether we have it or we dont have it, is not the entirety of health care reform.

This is just one sliver of it, one aspect of it.

And by the way, its both the right and the left that have become so fixated on this that they forget everything else, like the fact that we can help Nathan make sure that he doesnt suddenly find himself completely broke in trying to treat his son.
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Tansy_Gold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:22 PM
Response to Original message
5. The dynamite hasn't gone boom yet.
All I hear are crickets.




Tansy Gold
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rockymountaindem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:22 PM
Response to Original message
6. I'm not making any judgments of any kind about Obama until we see the final product
Then it'll be easy to tell if he's championed our ideals or sold us out, because it will already have happened one way or another. Anything else at this point is akin to leaving the stadium in the 7th inning.
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #6
42. But that takes you out of thge game and leaves you as a spectator.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 02:20 AM
Response to Reply #42
143. like we're active participants now?
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rosesaylavee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 06:05 AM
Response to Reply #143
156. Those of us calling and writing and emailing our congress people are
active participants. Those of us talking this up with our friends, colleagues and using our social networks to pass along information are active participants.

And I am sure you are one of these people... just a reminder that we do have a role to play in all this.

:fistbump:
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rucognizant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #156
225. My facebook.............
Is a random list of strangers for the most part each posting their own interest......not interacting with each other.
Some one posted the Credo e-mail petition yesterday...........I followed it with My own Credo post, & then 2 articles 1. NYT, 2. Huff Po.
It started an interactive discussion.young, old, fairly comfortable & NOT; retired & working............
in favor of the public option. I view this as VERY POSITIVE!
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rosesaylavee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-20-09 07:07 AM
Response to Reply #225
264. That is cool!
I am lucky that I belong to a church that has a lot of progressive thinkers and many are on my FB as well as some DUers here. Have a few family who are RW and surprisingly voted for the Palin woman... I am sure my posts are 'hidden' as I am getting increasingly political in my postings. (Imagine that!)
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BREMPRO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #143
191. It's OUR responsibility to get involved. (Link included)- He's invited us to participate in
a live online "Health Care Strategy Session" scheduled for Thursday August 20th at 2:30EST.

http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/obamafora...

If you care to express your views, and ask questions directly to the President, here is your opportunity.

It's easy to complaining here that we are not being included.

It's hard work to be a part of a democracy.

Yes, WE can. He can't get good health care reform without our active support.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #191
192. people petitioned the king under monarchies. sometimes they got what they wanted.
doesn't mean they were active "participants" in governance & decision making.

they were subjects.

so are we.
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bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 02:55 AM
Response to Reply #6
144. Obama just needs them to get a bill OUT OF COMMITTEE.Then he can fix it
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Q3JR4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 05:53 AM
Response to Reply #6
152. Ditto...
Q3JR4.
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FunMe Donating Member (184 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #6
239. I'm not waiting ... I'm making sure he does not sell us out!
These is the TRUE TEST for Obama. If he truly is playing chess (I keep hearing yet have not proof of that what with protecting telecoms with FISA, forgeting about the GLBT community, close to ignoring immigration reform ... yet still giving CORPORATE WELFARE).

I hope you are right.

Because we need to keep putting OBama's feet to the fire until he does the right thing for WE THE PEOPLE.

This is not a chess game. This about real lives!
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Lex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:23 PM
Response to Original message
7. So we have a viable Public Option about to happen?
This is great news!

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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #7
16. Yep. I sense doubt in your post. Why?
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Lex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #16
23. You "sense" doubt? I'm very excited to hear we are going to have a Public Option
and I'm glad that Obama had this worked out all along---because since Single Payer was dropped, a Public Option is the only thing that would really be worthwhile as far as reform goes.

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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #23
39. Sorry, I guess I misread. The question mark threw me off.
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #16
49. You mean 10 million enrolles after 10 years? (HR3200) or none? (HELP bill) or
what?

Have you seen any legislation that actually sets up a public option anyone can get into who wants to, and that is cheaper and better structured than private insurance?

I'd sure like to see it. where do I look?
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Dragonfli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #49
246. Those are important points you've made that have been lost in the cacophony
:thumbsup:
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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:23 PM
Response to Original message
8. I'll believe it when I see it.
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Martin Eden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #8
21. Hey, that's what I was gonna say! n/t
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WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #8
22. Read the NEw York Times tomorrow
Dems will go it alone on Health Care.

Say what you will about Drudge, he has an excellent inside source into the NYT.
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Laelth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #22
92. The essay is available now.
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DRoseDARs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 01:04 AM
Response to Reply #8
135. Yeah, I'd've waited until the end of August; let the Republicans have a little more of the rope. n/t
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The Wielding Truth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #8
229. Is that sign really used by RW'rs or is it sarcasm?
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The Wielding Truth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #8
230. Is that sign really used by RW'rs or is it sarcasm?
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Sebastian Doyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:23 PM
Response to Original message
9. If this is true
Then there's no reason not to come out swinging with HR 676, and FUCK the insurance corporations and their lackeys altogether.
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CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. what about these deals with insurance and pharmaceutical companies, would they preclude this?
are they real deals?

i'm now nervous about this all around.
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Bobbie Jo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #15
31. If they want to SURVIVE in the changing market, they get on board early.nt
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JeanGrey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #31
53. That's the problem. THEY DON'T NEED TO SURVIVE.
Period.
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Bobbie Jo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #53
56. Those that will are the ones that will adapt to the inevitable.
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lostnfound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 06:22 AM
Response to Reply #53
159. I think they need to survive because their stockholders can't afford them to go under.
Edited on Wed Aug-19-09 06:25 AM by lostnfound
I personally don't WANT them to survive; I personally think I would rather see an NHS etc. But I do wonder how you go about dismantling them or making them worthless without causing significant immediate financial losses for stockholders and for their employees. I'm not saying that it SHOULD stand in the way, but is that entering into the political calculations for Obama or other Democratic leaders?

On edit: "Can't afford" isn't meant to be literal -- Bill Gates can afford it clearly. But there are many out there who are middle class holding a large portion of "medical" stocks in their 401K etc.
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JeanGrey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 08:50 AM
Response to Reply #159
174. I am not the least it worried about their "stockholders" and
we can't be. They have to done away with, period for the greater good.
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #159
207. If true, we should probably find a bailout program that doesn't kill people.
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Dragonfli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #159
247. I understand your point, however
If I was told that a 20 pound leach on my back was sucking me dry of blood and killing me, but I should not have it removed because it would be needed as someone's meal once it was engorged enough.

I would not let it kill me as it grew, I would simply beg them to find a different meal and allow me to extract it before it killed me.

There are other ways to eat than to earn a meal off the suffering and death of others.
We should not resort to parasitic behavior to earn what we need.

You may disagree or you may not - it is however exactly as I see it.
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lostnfound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #247
262. I agree. I am thinking more of the political calculations that may be
occurring behind the scenes but also wondering what mitigation could occur. I.e., truly national health care system theoretically would destroy the big insurance companies, wouldn't it? Which might be great, but I am thinking of Enron and the retirement accounts that zeroed out as a result -- even among people who never worked for Enron. There was a retiree highlighted in the movie "smartest guys in the room" who was a lineman for Pacific electric company -- blue collar guy -- whose entire account was wiped out because he always assumed that his own utility company was safe, and when it was bought by Enron he didn't make a move with his money, and then he ended up having to go to work again (at the age of 70?).

I don't know what the market cap is for the health insurance vampires..and I would be thrilled if they all go under..but wouldn't a buyout of some sort for the shareholders -- at least the first $100K or whatever of their holdings -- be just? Like nationalizing a resource industry is usually done via buyout of ownership.

Well, stocks are "wealth without work" as Gandhi would say, and the root problem is the ownership society (a phrase which always called to mind the slave ships for me). The loss of property is secondary to the loss of life occurring among the uninsured or other victims of insurance companies.
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Dragonfli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-20-09 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #262
266. I know very little about the workings of investments.
Edited on Thu Aug-20-09 11:01 PM by Dragonfli
I do believe however that the ICs would adapt to the new system just as they did in other countries.

A smaller piece of the pie by far, but there will be a market for health luxury policies and in this country there will be the stubborn right that will fear even the best single payer system and will have to be allowed to purchase overpriced policies with less care at least for as long as it takes them to figure it out (a "uniquely American" advantage for the ICs).

This may have to be accomplished by something stupid and republican like a voucher they can use for such pouty endeavors. They will of course complain that the voucher will only cover half of what they will be paying, not to mention co-pays for the more expensive, less coverage choice they would make, but we would only be able to reimburse them for what it would save us to loose them.

They should also be required to pay the additional wasted money spent by the hospital or doctor for the added administrative costs of being able to collect from the private firm they use.

One of the big unsung savings of SP is that it saves a great deal for doctors and hospitals because of only having to process one type of invoice to one payer, I am told the current system adds HUGE administrative costs on the care side. The "Private Choicers" really should pay what their visits add by complicating and increasing the cost to the care givers.

Another thing to consider is that many of them are already diversified into other types of insurance and those that are not can now begin to do so as well. There is still a place for insurance on the property side of things and always will be. There are some helpful uses for the concept of insurance. Just not on human health that is not a choice but a dire need that should not be held to a profit margin determination of life or death.

Just some thoughts... My main point being that I doubt there will be an abrupt and complete end to the insurance industry because it has not happened any place else it has been tried.

spelling edit
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robinlynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #9
181. agreed. and get tid of an Dem who stands in the way. off of committees, or
otherwise shut up..
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NYC_SKP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:23 PM
Response to Original message
10. I'm going to have to recommend this post.
:applause:

:patriot:
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CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:24 PM
Response to Original message
11. I sure hope you are right
we'll see.
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jasi2006 Donating Member (544 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:24 PM
Response to Original message
12. please get this to the Obama team to remind Obama what his
strategy is.
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elleng Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:25 PM
Response to Original message
13. Glad to hear this from you,
but please help me out; I'm out of touch! Moved, and no internet at home. Where'd the below come from?

You already have the chief REpublican negotiator for bipartisanship in health care reform saying he wasn't negotiating in good faith, AND THEN ADMITTING THERE WAS NO WAY HE'D VOTE FOR ANY BILL!

Thanks, WeDid.

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WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. Chuck Grassley
HE told an audience at his town hall that by negotiating, he kept a bill from getting out of committee to already be passed and that was his objective.

Then, you ahve him on tape saying that even a bill he could agree with in nbegoatiations wouldn't get his vote.

Grassley screwed the pooch for the REpubs. They cannot say "he's not being bipartisan" because Grassley has pre-empted that.
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elleng Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #18
35. Thanks, WeDid.
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CitizenPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:25 PM
Response to Original message
14. I've been counting the days
he did the same thing with the Stimulus Plan...and we all freaked out.

I just wrote a piece on how Progressives need to take this debate back from the fucking nutjobs who are not only incompetent, but quite likely crazy (witch doctors? these are the people who should be in charge of the health care debate?).

I have a ton of faith in Obama -- which he earned the hard way. And I'm working my ass off to be a part of the solution.
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:27 PM
Response to Original message
17. My instinct (based on his past behavior) says that you're right and this has just been biding time
Why not let them scream themselves out? Why not let them feel like they've been heard? Why not let them prove that they've never been in favor of healthcare reform? Why not let them tell SO many lies, that when we summarize them in September when this has all calmed down, people will be aghast that such stupidity was put forth by the supposed "opposition". We can hope.
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DevonRex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:27 PM
Response to Original message
19. Another thing...
Your post came just as I was mulling over whether I belonged here anymore. Well, actually, I was mulling it over in a nice bubble bath and then came down to check the board again before I made my decision.

I've seen so much defeatism, so much anti-Democratic Party stuff, so much anti-Obama stuff that it has felt like a Twilight Zone version of Free Republic here.

Thank you for being open minded. I understand it when people have strong reactions to what the "news" tells them. But I've never understood giving up on the Democratic Party or the Democratic President.

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WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #19
29. Pssst
Look at what Drudge says the NYT will report.

Whatever you say about Drudge, he has a good source in the NYT.
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Lex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #29
34. Your source is DRUDGE?
Uh oh.

Well, here's to hoping Drudge is correct.

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WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #34
43. I've seen Drudge be wrong about a lot of shit
but I have never ONCE seen Drudge say the NYT would be breaking a story and the NYT not breaik that story.

They feed to him to build it up.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #43
193. I've seen the NYTimes WRONG about a lot of shit too.
*
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DevonRex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #29
37. Heh. He always has, hasn't he?
Sometimes it's good and sometimes it's not so good. This time it's good.

:hug:
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WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #37
40. HE's posted a lot of bullshit in his time
but whe he says the NYT will be breaking a story, the NYT breaks that story.

Hell, it'll probably be up later toniight.
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Naturyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:27 PM
Response to Original message
20. All logical enough, right up to the part where...
Nothing happens.

I wish I could believe this, but it's wishful thinking.
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WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. Read the NYT tomorrow n/t
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:29 PM
Response to Original message
25. Public Option MUST come out of committee
or the progressives will be blamed for sinking the bill.

We haven't made mincemeat out of these GOP Rasputins yet.
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undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:30 PM
Response to Original message
26. Yeah, and John Kerry is going to ask for a recount in Ohio.
Chess players, both of them.
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WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. Read the NYT tomorrow. n/t
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Lex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. Tomorrow's edition goes online at 11pm tonight.
iirc

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WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #30
46. :-D
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #26
38. Can I call you "Captain Negative Pants?"
Men, you are just filled with bitterness. I am angry too, but let's not drag us down when we need to keep fighting.
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DevonRex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:35 PM
Original message
*snort*
You just cracked me up. Thanks. :hi:
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undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #38
50. I am not a man.
And I think it would serve you well to refrain from judging other people who post here.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #50
58. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #58
60. You live up to your name.
And you're nasty, too.
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #60
63. I am reflective of who I'm talking to
Live it. Own it.
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undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #63
69. You have absolutely no idea who you're talking to.
Edited on Tue Aug-18-09 09:02 PM by undeterred
You have no respect for anyone whose opinion is different than yours. And you're nasty too.
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #69
73. lol
OK, you're a bad dude. :eyes: uhh, dudette?

On here, you're just another user ID.
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AwakeAtLast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:32 PM
Response to Original message
28. Repukes are too stupid and arrogant to pick up on this
He's done it every time, yet they still fall for it.

He's got 'em HYPNOTIZED!!! :D
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WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #28
36. What's better is the grass roots gets to claim the victory
Because we've all been gaga for three months emailing, phoning, and snail mailing everybody and their brothers about this.

So now we get to feel all warm and fuzzy about OUR victory and ahve even more of a sense of connection to the process, investing even more of ourselves in the future of Democratic politics.

It's fucking brilliance.
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DevonRex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #36
52. Exactly. We have been fired up and we've been doing what we're supposed
to do in a representative government. And nobody will be able to say that the Democrats were hell bent on shoving something down the Republicans' throats, since we gave them every possible opportunity to offer something constructive.

Well, they didn't. Instead they came with guns. That's a very VERY telling and important picture for Americans to have in their heads about the Republican Party. They are the party of intimidation and violence. They are the party that doesn't want Americans to have basic health care. They are the party with NO solutions whatsoever.
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WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #52
59. I'll bet the Secret Service had discussions about moving back the gun guys
after a dozen showed up on Saturday.

I'll bet Obama trusts them fully and said, "guys, you always set up these perimeters. Is it really necessary?"

Wielding guns to a health care debate is a fucking in your face symbol about who is rational and who is over the top batshit insane.
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DevonRex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #59
61. Talk about rope-a-dope. This should be the standard forever more.
:rofl:
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bluethruandthru Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:33 PM
Response to Original message
32. I really hope you're right. n/t
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DU GrovelBot  Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:33 PM
Response to Original message
33. ## PLEASE DONATE TO DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND! ##



This week is our third quarter 2009 fund drive. Democratic Underground is
a completely independent website. We depend on donations from our members
to cover our costs. Please take a moment to donate! Thank you!

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SIMPLYB1980 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #33
67. Damn you grovelbot,
I have no more donations to give, but I will kick this thread.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:35 PM
Response to Original message
41. Y'know, he was in my deep red city yesterday, in front of veterans. And he won them over...
You've just raised my confidence level considerably. He knows what he's doing, and when to come out hitting hard. I think the time has come--and he knows it.
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dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:36 PM
Response to Original message
44. If he no longer has to worry about being "bipartisan"
does that mean we could get Medicare for All - or at least start expanding the program? Or will we still be stuck with the corporate friendly "public option" that's in HR3200 - and that won't be an option for anyone before 2013?

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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #44
194. +1 nt
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BumRushDaShow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:36 PM
Response to Original message
45. The enemy
played their hands too early and with juvenile bravado. Now they have nothing left.

And yes, this was to show the moderates that an attempt was made to "compromise" where there was never any attempt on the other side to do so. The proof being that once the compromise trial balloons were floated, the lunatic fringe immediately launched into their usual wedge issue blather that had nothing to do with health care at all. Repukes even threw themselves under the bus by quickly jettisoning their own long fought-for reform proposals in favor of supporting the ignorant illiterati and the corporate-owned noise machine M$M that now run their party.
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:39 PM
Response to Original message
47. k&r....
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Sick_of_Rethuggery Donating Member (853 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:39 PM
Response to Original message
48. I think it is much simpler than that...
He simply lets everyone reveal their cards and then he puts his chips down, so to speak.

This incidentally results in his "enemies" knocking themselves out of the running by overplaying their hand -- classic case of (appearance of) jujitsu.
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Tutankhamun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:41 PM
Response to Original message
51. I wonder if Barack is, in fact, a good and experienced chess player.
I think it would be a lot of fun to play chess with him.
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Parker CA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:45 PM
Response to Original message
54. Glad to see you've found the faith in this POTUS to get this done that some of us had all along! ;)
Nice post. Obama doesn't run the kind of campaign he did and then in only six months completely unravel. It just doesn't happen. Even in the face of extreme opposition, the skills and maneuvering Obama and his team exhibited do not devolve into the level of mess we're seeing/hearing suggested. Does. Not. Happen.
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Bobbie Jo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #54
62. +1
Stay tuned folks, this man is no amateur.
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shellgame26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 05:45 AM
Response to Reply #54
151. That's pretty much how I see it
When I think of how just 2 years ago, half the population had never heard of him, then being a longshot candidate to frontrunner then president, I'm STILL amazed! That wasn't luck, that was pure strategy and competence. I don't see him giving up on something he's determined to get done.
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:45 PM
Response to Original message
55. I don't quite see it.
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DevonRex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #55
57. Awsome picture! :) nt
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #55
74. That. Is. Too. Cool.
I am sooo grinning.
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Arkana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #55
75. BASIC, MOTHERFUCKER! DO YOU SPEAK IT?!
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winyanstaz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #75
202. While I hope this article is correct and I pray Obama will really do this...
I think your language is terrible and I bet it makes your mother sad.
Can't you have just a little respect for women?
Us grandmas and moms and our daughtors have to read this stuff also you know.
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glinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #55
114. DU needs to make buttons with that on it.
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zipplewrath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:50 PM
Response to Original message
64. What about the Blue Dogs
In the end, it wasn't really the GOP that was the problem, it was the Blue Dogs. What does he plan on doing about the blue dogs other than caving in?
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Parker CA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #64
65. Without the pukes in the mix, the onus and blame will fall entirely on the Blue Dogs if this doesn't
Edited on Tue Aug-18-09 08:55 PM by Parker CA
move forward. In the end, their bark will prove to be louder than their bite. No doubt Obama will frame it to them in such a way that the benefits to their personal campaigns (future endorsements, stumping, etc) will far outweigh the sure destruction and primarying they will receive should they go agsinst a public option in the bill.
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WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #64
68. The Blue Dogs will not have a choice
The Blue Dogs in the Senate will have to go along to get along. They'll vote for cloture. Some may not vote for the final bill, but they'll fall in line for cloture.

The key will be getting Teddy to the floor.

After the cloture vote, it's over.

No member of the Democratic Caucus will go against a cloture vote on a major party platform plank. And hell, Lieberman will be able to go back to Connecticut in 2012 claiming he helped save Health Care.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 12:37 AM
Response to Reply #68
130. They've been letting Ted vote "by proxy." I never heard of that in my life
and have no clue if it is valid constitutionally, but I don't know who could or would take i to the SCOTUS to find out. I just hope poor Ted lives to see something pass. Not going to his sister's funeral? Sounds rough.
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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 08:07 AM
Response to Reply #68
171. If Teddy has to be carted in on a gurney to press the button he'll be the first to do it
Health care means that much to him and he'll make it there by any means even if it could jeopardize his health making that vote.
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B Calm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 12:44 AM
Response to Reply #64
131. You mean to say the Blue Cross Dems!
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Cetacea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:56 PM
Response to Original message
66. I was thinking that this was his strategy just a few days ago. K&R
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liberalmuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 09:01 PM
Response to Original message
70. Now this is what I want to see on DU!
Yesssss! I believe you've got it! First fucking positive post I've read all day. Granted, I've only been able to peak in a few times, but Jesus, it's been bleak in here today. Someone even said they hated Bill Clinton. I've learned to keep my mouth mostly shut because if I wait it out, I find that President Obama continually surprises me (in a good way).
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WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 09:01 PM
Response to Original message
71. BREAKING NEWS ON AC360!
Sources: White House weighs No-Compromise Strategy

:D
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Why Syzygy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 03:06 AM
Response to Reply #71
272. Headlines
Obama to Reappoint Bernanke
Wall Street Journal

Young Obama backers AWOL from health care fight
The Associated Press

Bush-Era Controversies Follow Obama
Washington Post

Is Obama making a convincing case for the Afghan war?
Christian Science Monitor

Obama Wins: Federal Gay Marriage Suit Tossed
On Top Magazine

Commentary: Federal deficit projections increase by 2 trillion ...
Examiner.com

Obama's Team Is Lacking Most of Its Top Players
New York Times

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Why Syzygy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 03:06 AM
Response to Reply #71
273. Headlines
Obama to Reappoint Bernanke
Wall Street Journal

Young Obama backers AWOL from health care fight
The Associated Press

Bush-Era Controversies Follow Obama
Washington Post

Is Obama making a convincing case for the Afghan war?
Christian Science Monitor

Obama Wins: Federal Gay Marriage Suit Tossed
On Top Magazine

Commentary: Federal deficit projections increase by 2 trillion ...
Examiner.com

Obama's Team Is Lacking Most of Its Top Players
New York Times

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rocktivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 09:05 PM
Response to Original message
77. Well, duh! Who do you think you're dealing with--George Bush?
Edited on Tue Aug-18-09 09:07 PM by rocktivity
Of course Obama is intelligent enough to know that his calls for bi-partisanship would go unheeded--I'd even bet that his alleged slip of the tongue Saturday was part of the setup. Now he's riding on a wave of public backlash, the progressives have drawn a line in the same, and the town hall screamers are looking like idiots. His ulterior motive was to give the Rethugs enough rope to hang themselves?

:rofl:
rocktivity
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Mermaid7 Donating Member (156 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #77
97. Man O Man
That's what I'd truly like to believe....

hmmm, well, hmmm, he did the same thing during his campaign didnt' he?

Remember when McCain, in order to avoid the 2nd debate, where he was not doing at all well during the first, decided at the last moment he had to high tail it back to Washington to save the ecomomy???? Remember that joke?

Obama said, he could do both, "that a President needed to be able to multitask?" Ended up making McCain look like an old fool, especially when they both got to Washington and McCain sat there silent without a word to add to Bush's panel. Sat there looking like an uncomfortable stiff.

Obama, knows how to play it.

And we have seen it before.

Give em a little rope....

Let em get out there first and make fools of theirselves.

At least I hope this is part of the plan?

Is it?

I hope so.
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Arkana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 09:05 PM
Response to Original message
78. Wait...this isn't a sarcastic diatribe?
Wow.

I gotta be honest, I was reading your post and waiting for the other shoe to drop.
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WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #78
80. It's breaking on CNN as I type this
:evilgrin:

The Force is STRONG with this one!
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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 08:11 AM
Response to Reply #78
172. like a link to the latest Bob Herbert column or something
Nah. Go team!
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RandySF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 09:06 PM
Response to Original message
79. About.Fucking.Time
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nc4bo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 09:08 PM
Response to Original message
81. Who is the moustached Repuke douchbag on 360 talking now?
Edited on Tue Aug-18-09 09:10 PM by nc4bo
Caught the first name Alec? Alex?
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WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #81
83. HE;'s a major league douche bag
Grassley was the one who threw bipartisanship under the bus.
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nc4bo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #83
86. He certainly did but that was their (gop's) intention anyway...
I'm surprised they played along this long.
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dem629 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #81
84. Alex Castillanos or something like that. A Repub strategist.
By the way, how do all these "strategists" make livings?
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nc4bo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #84
85. He's a piece of work. Nasty, slime, know-it-all.
I reckon they whore themselves to the highest corpho bidder.

It's sickening and I can't understand how people can believe anything that comes out of their mouths.

Blech.
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RandySF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 09:10 PM
Response to Original message
82. This could mean reconciliation
I thought I read somewhere that the earliest they could to health care as part of a reconciliation package no earlier than Sept. 15, hence the deadline we'd been hearing about. Maybe this is it.
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 09:26 PM
Response to Original message
88. He never does ANYTHING until he's ready, until the distractions have
all run thier gamut.

Eye on the prize.....He told Chuck Todd, sharply, that he doesn't operate on a 24 hour news cycle, IIRC (prolly wrong about the "reporter"

He has never been -partially- in control of anything - The OP is right - He waited for the cowards and the traitors to show their true colors.....

And now, in spite of all the hate and the lies and the sideshows, I believe he will show HIS plan for healthcare reform.

This might be the moment where this president reveals his true character to the rest of congress.

And the message this character reveals is:

Waste my time at your own peril.

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PopSixSquish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 09:27 PM
Response to Original message
89. LINK to NY Times Article!
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/19/health/policy/19repub...

For anyone who thinks that the WH hasn't been paying attention, I give you

"The White House, carefully following Mr. Grassleys activities, presumed he was no longer interested in negotiating with Democrats after he initially made no effort to debunk misinformation that the legislation could lead to death panels empowered to judge who would receive care."

In other news, the House Dems are more determined than ever to keep the public option in - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/18/house-dems-ral...

If there's one thing Nancy Pelosi can do, it's whip members. She's pretty much kept her caucus together even with the Blue Dogs barking.

Trouble still may come from the usual suspects in the Senate so keep the pressure on. BTW - Max Baucus has disappeared from the face of the earth after Obama hung health care reform around his neck at the Montana Town Hall on Friday.

Now is when the fun starts...


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timeforpeace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #89
94. The NY Times article bears no resemblance to the claims in this thread, does it?
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PopSixSquish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #94
95. That's Just the NY Times Article Referenced
Again, this has been floated before but not picked up by the MSN. Now it has.

As I said, don't let up. Keep calling and emailing and writing...
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Bobbie Jo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 09:29 PM
Response to Original message
90. House Progressives are going to bring this thing home.
Weiner's appearance on the scene was no accident.

MEDICARE. :think:
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glinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #90
116. I like him.
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OneGrassRoot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 05:12 AM
Response to Reply #90
150. He's VERY impressive. :) n/t
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Frank Booth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 09:29 PM
Response to Original message
91. So you're saying Obama intentionally made himself look weak, intentionally made his administration
seem disorganized, and intentionally pissed off the base while failing to court any conservatives?

Somehow, I doubt it.
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CakeGrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #91
99. I don't doubt it. A lot of people here have been foaming at the mouth at him
for not being a leader. They've sucked down every shitty headline and article implying that the President is weak and ineffective and pounded them with recs.

And all he was doing was extending the purported hand of "bipartisanship". A number of people knew from the go that Obama knew better than to think the Republicans would work with him. Anyone who heard him call out DeMint on wanting Healtcare to be his Waterloo would have known he had the Republicans' number.

So no, I don't believe he ever expected much, if ANY, courtship from the Republicans and I'm sure he anticipated getting a lot of shit over appearing to extend them every courtesy. But now the WH has more than enough proof that they went over and above to TRY.
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Frank Booth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #99
102. What did he gain from the months of vacillating?
You're saying he did all this just so he could prove the Republicans would never support the plan?

If so, it obviously wasn't worth it. His popularity has tanked because of this, and he's starting to cement a reputation of being weak.
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WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #102
108. August is a recess month
August is typically a slow news month.

Instead, this year, the media gobbled up Birthers, Teabaggers, Deathers, and armed assholes.

He let these batshit insane idiots be linked forever to the GOP.

And he also ran on bipartisan approaches to government. HE had to make it appear he was willing to compromise with the Republicans. The end of biartisanship HAD to come from Charles Grassley, and it did. Now, he can honestly say he tried to be bipartisan, but instead of clasping hands, the Republicans clenched fists.
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JanusAscending Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #102
123. @&)($*%&#_#
OFF !!
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CakeGrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #102
129. Not with me. And if he delivers results without people
reconsidering their low opinion of him or his strength, then screw 'em. They don't deserve to have him working on this shitheap of a mess of everything.
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Fedja Donating Member (544 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 03:06 AM
Response to Reply #102
145. Only in a purely black&white world
If anything, Obama has proven to be a master of tactful navigation in the shades of grey.

Someone looking from outside the US at all of this sees that Obama has been up against a barrage of retardedness on the healthcare bill. We saw the last US president being "strong" in the face of adversity, and we hated him for it. What you label as "weak", we see as calculating and careful.

Now surely, the careful sometimes fail. The healthcare effort (purely statistically speaking) does have a chance of failing. Yes, I said it. However, when measured and calculated efforts fail, they leave room for future improvement. When "strong" efforts fail, countries lie in ruin for many years.
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WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #91
106. It's called "Rope-A-Dope"
The campaign did it several times throughout 2007 and 2008.
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leeroysphitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 09:31 PM
Response to Original message
93. Everthing that has transpired has done so according to Obama's design.
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kenny blankenship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 09:33 PM
Response to Original message
96. The Farce is strong in you.
live long and perspire.
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sam sarrha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #96
100. yea..sure. dream on.. you aren't considering the Demoblicans from the South, nothing will ever
Edited on Tue Aug-18-09 09:51 PM by sam sarrha
change till theo outlaw Corporate Campaign Contributions, formerly known as BRIBES...
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johnfunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 09:39 PM
Response to Original message
98. Maestro Obama has bypassed the GOP's Mighty Wurlitzer!
Edited on Tue Aug-18-09 09:39 PM by johnfunk
He let it play their discordant little swiftboater... er, teabagger tune, which is now hitting the final reprise.

And anyone will tell you that even the biggest Wurlitzer is no match for the Chicago Symphony Orchestra, still the world's _loudest_ with decibel levels that put even Led Zep and U2 to shame in fortissimo passages (I'm not making this up).
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tinkerbell41 Donating Member (722 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 09:58 PM
Response to Original message
101. All I can say is Goddamn!!!!!!
Just when I think I might lose faith.
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
103. I'm holding my breath about now, because this is an edge-of-the-seat movie. KnR.
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liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 10:17 PM
Response to Original message
104. The brilliance of Obama
Edited on Tue Aug-18-09 10:17 PM by liberal N proud
If he gets a public option passed and health insurance reform is a success, he will be seen in history as one of the brilliant minds in American leadership.
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DeschutesRiver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 10:26 PM
Response to Original message
105. Thing I've noticed about Obama is his ability to play this chessboard very well indeed
I saw these kinds of moves repeatedly during the campaign, and I voted for him for that ability, amongst other things. I'm a laywer and his mind is the kind of lawerly mind that I throughly enjoy watching in action.

He is committed, steady, willing to duck or dodge or confront as needed, while setting aside any personal baggage that arises from any issue. I thought this was the direction he was headed, and as I watched layer after layer being exposed for what it was, I stand back and admire his technique. He is a good guy :)
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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 10:43 PM
Response to Original message
107. Ummmm...ok....I want to believe this...
...but I see no evidence that this is happening.

I really don't.

I hope it is, but frankly, it looks to me like the insurance lobbyists and big
business has won the day and that there will be no meaningful healthcare reform.

I'm willing to stay open minded and consider your theory--because, believe me, I'd like
nothing more than to be completely wrong.

One thing that bothers me--I don't see Obama spearheading this effort like he means it. Bush
took it on the road and rallied for Social Security reform. The man was focused like a laser
beam--on privatizing Social Security. They had orchestrated town halls and naysayers were kicked
out. They really tried to win the PR war. I don't see the same kind of effort from Obama.
I see him deferring to Congress---and Obama knows damn well that 95 percent of them are corrupt
bastards who are bought and paid for by the corporations. So...hello?

That's what I see.

But I will remain optimistic that your scenario is a possibility.
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Blue_In_AK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 10:51 PM
Response to Original message
109. I hate to be cynical, but
Edited on Tue Aug-18-09 10:51 PM by Blue_In_AK
I'll believe it when the ink from President Obama's pen is dry on the bill.
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NoSheep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 11:01 PM
Response to Original message
111. Wonder how long before this positive thread sinks to more hand wringing.
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onestepforward Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 11:01 PM
Response to Original message
112. I hope with all of my heart that you are right. n/t
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kid a Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 11:08 PM
Response to Original message
113. I'm with the smart guy.
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Umbral Donating Member (969 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 11:52 PM
Response to Original message
115. I'll save my adulation for the signing ceremony, provided a GOOD bill makes it to Obama's desk. nt
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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 11:55 PM
Response to Original message
117. Oh for fucks sake...
Hope springs eternal I guess.

Hell, I hope you're right too.

But I wonder how many times people are going to keep posting these desperate attempts to spin reality to contort to the "Obama is a Jedi Master" narrative before they finally give up....

But hey, here's another stab at desperately hoping he has a secret liberal master plan he's just waiting to spring.
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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 11:56 PM
Response to Original message
118. PS - enough of our own democrats don't want single payer, or a public option
....so why do you just shit-gasm yourself, exactly?
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Number23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 12:27 AM
Response to Reply #118
126. "so why do you just shit-gasm yourself"
That is the most nonsensical and unnecessarily nasty thing I've read today. I can't even PRETEND to know what your point is and why you posted that.
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BlueMTexpat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #126
185. +1!!!!
Some posters really do out themselves, don't they?
While I personally am not sure that Obama had an intentional strategy about this, whatever the "strategy" is, it seems to be working. The thing is that it was always a win-win situation for him. Either the Repubs would negotiate in good faith to get a good bill (highly unlikely but always possible) or they would not and would be recognized for NOT doing so (as has happened). That allows the Dems free rein. Yes, there are still the Blue Dogs. But even they may see the light, if they want any help from the Dem base for their next election cycles. And we had better be sure to let them know it. I, for one, have let Max Baucus have it with both barrels. I come from a family of well-known and lifelong MT Dems, and I managed to mention that, among other things, in my missives.
Perhaps this initial reaching out works, in part, because today's GOP is so predictable: if the Dems are FOR something that doesn't involve endless war or bailing out corporate institutions, the Repubs are automatically AGAINST it. Suddenly, they're cost-conscious and "financially responsible." Hah!
:toast:
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Number23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #185
237. Exactly!
The thing is that it was always a win-win situation for him. Either the Repubs would negotiate in good faith to get a good bill (highly unlikely but always possible) or they would not and would be recognized for NOT doing so (as has happened). That allows the Dems free rein.

Exactly! Exactly! Exactly!!!!

Seems like common sense to me, but to others this is like reading Moby Dick in Russian.
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subcomhd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #126
200. whiny
"The United States has two parties nowthe Obama Party and the Fox Party. The Obama Party is larger, but it is unfocused and its troops are whiny. The Fox Party, which shows up en masse to harass politicians, is noisy and practiced in the art of simplistic obstruction. As the health-care debate rages, it's the Party of Sort-of-Maybe-Yes versus the Party of Hell No! The Yessers are more lackadaisical because they've forgotten the stakesthey've forgotten that this is the most important civil-rights bill in a generation, though it is rarely framed"

Jonathan Alter
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Number23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #200
238. Great post
And I would definitely have to agree that the poster I was responding to definitely belongs in the unfocused and whiny party. :)
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subcomhd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-20-09 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #238
265. indeed eom
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wildbilln864 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 11:57 PM
Response to Original message
119. I sure hope you're right about this! nt
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walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 12:03 AM
Response to Original message
120. I'll withhold judgement until it's over. Been burned too many times
and Obama has had every opportunity to speak these few words: "I will veto any bill that comes across my desk without a public option." While I hope you are right, this looks like wishful thinking.
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JanusAscending Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 12:27 AM
Response to Reply #120
125. Actually...he's said that a few times already!!
Where ya been?
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walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 01:22 AM
Response to Reply #125
137. On the road...I'm a roadie. But last week he was kinda acting all wishy-washy
about the public option. I have been watching the news the last few hours for the first time in months. It looks like Dems are about to grow a spine and the shit is about to hit the fan. Now we will see if Obama really has what it takes to get the Dems in the Senate in line. Conrad has already said that the votes aren't there to get a public option through. With Obama blowing off Bi-Partisanship (finally) he's going to need every Dem vote. Which means playing serious hardball with the "blue dogs".

Frankly in spite of myself my hopes are really high. I'd like to see Obama just throw caution to the wind and ram this shit down their throats.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 12:07 AM
Response to Original message
121. I hope you are right, but I will hold judgement at this point
too many burns I need time in the burn ward.
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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 12:14 AM
Response to Original message
122. Did you ever stop to think that THE PEOPLE may have influenced "the jedi master"?
I hope to god that the NY Times article is correct, that the Administration will show some backbone. But what makes you think that Obama is some 30 dimensional chess playing genius and not a politician responding to HIS BASE.

Why are these narratives never about THE PEOPLE and the hard work they do keeping this country from going off the deep end and making their voices heard? Why are the narrative always about Obama's "genius" at manipulation? It's always some benevolent authoritarian "hero" coming to our rescue.

Maybe this time THE AMERICAN PEOPLE CAME TO OBAMA'S RESCUE?
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walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 01:29 AM
Response to Reply #122
138. Yup Jane Hamisher was just discussing this very thing on Maddow
People worked hard to give the Dems all the power they needed to make the changes that count. While the righties are screaming Hitler and running around with their guns we have been telling the people we put in office that we demand a public option. While the press may be all about the loonies in the tiny minority, the politicians are seeing where their bread is buttered. They aren't interested in what is on the news they are interested in getting re-elected, and if they fuck us after all we did to give them all the power, there will be hell to pay. I think there have been enough phone calls e-mails and live debate for the Dems to realize we aren't screwing around.
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backscatter712 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 12:23 AM
Response to Original message
124. That's the President I voted for!
Sounds like even under the most generous terms, the GOP's completely unwilling to play ball.

Now, it's time to kick ass and chew bubblegum, and we're all out of bubblegum...
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FourScore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 12:30 AM
Response to Original message
127. Feel the force...k/r
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titoresque Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 12:32 AM
Response to Original message
128. I knew it!
Its time to turn the heat up on our Dem. Congress and Senators. We need to let them know that we will not back down!
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Poll_Blind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 12:47 AM
Response to Original message
132. If Obama pulls this off: I WILL CONCIEVE ANOTHER CHILD JUST TO NAME IT BARACK.
Or Barackalina, as necessary.

PB
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 03:58 AM
Response to Reply #132
147. "Barakah" if a girl --> Blessings from God
:toast:

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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 12:52 AM
Response to Original message
133. So, all these months Obama's been telling Congress and the country that this absolutely
HAD be done before the break, he was counting on the town meetings during the break? Hmmmmm.

And, as soon as we hear that the Democrats in Congress decided to go it alone, we leap to the conclusion that their decision is the result of Obama alone?

Not the voters calling and emailing and threatening never to vote Democratic again without a strong public option?

Not the Progressive Caucus letter?

Not "leftist" lawmakers taking a pledge not to vote for anything without a strong public option?

Not the AFL-CIO threatening to keep its membership home on election day?

Not the members of the House and the Senate worrying about their own re-election after their constituents hammered them?

Not Shultz, Keith, Maddow and Dean hammering on this literally every day?

None of that, just good ole bi-partisanship Obama by his little ole bi-partisanship self?




mmmmm The Kool Aid is strong in these, it is. mmmmm

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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #133
195. +1
:thumbsup:
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theFrankFactor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #133
252. I'm With You. Barack's Halo is Crooked.
How much were contributions to his campaign from the Health Ind.?
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Ysabela Donating Member (208 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 12:59 AM
Response to Original message
134. You're very right. And after Oct 16 he will drop the Budget Reconciliation bomb on them.
Obama's been playing the rope-a-dope the whole way. Just you wait and see.
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 01:41 AM
Response to Original message
139. Moodlifting post, thanks, K&R nt
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countmyvote4real Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 01:47 AM
Response to Original message
140. I wish. We'll see. Still, don't let up on the pressure.
Call, email, fax, show-up, whatever any of us can do to cut through the spin. President Obama and company need to know they are going to get burned, one way or another. They might as well be burned for all the right reasons rather than for failing to complete a compromise that was NEVER there to begin with.

Either way, there will be serious consequences for either party.
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WillYourVoteBCounted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 01:53 AM
Response to Original message
141. he's a counterpuncher
and he holds back a really long time before he hits.
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FarLeftFist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 02:10 AM
Response to Original message
142. IT IS ON THE NYT.COM FRONTPAGE...RITE NOW!
BUT LETS SEE IF OBAMA HAS THE BALLS TO STAND UP FOR THE PEOPLE.
ALTHOUGH HE DID SAY "EVEN IF IT MEANS BEING A ONE-TERM PRESIDENT, I WILL PASS HEALTHCARE REFORM DURING MY PRESIDENCY" ONLY TIME WILL TELL.
I COULD UNDERSTAND WHY HE WOULD ROPE-A-DOPE AND ALSO PLAY BI-PARTISAN, I MEAN HE IS OUR FIRST AFRICAN-AMERICAN PRESIDENT, HE DOESN'T WANT TO SEEM TOO AGGRESSIVE AND PISS OFF THE REDNECKS.
PLUS FOR THE 2012 CAMPAIGN HE COULD POINT TO THE FACT HE TRIED FOR BI-PARTISANSHIP. POLITICAL POINTS.
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downeyr Donating Member (158 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 03:47 AM
Response to Original message
146. Amen!
It's good to see that picture up again! Now we've just got to keep the pressure on!
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rambler_american Donating Member (565 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 05:04 AM
Response to Original message
148. WOOT!
Obama effing ROCKS!
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rambler_american Donating Member (565 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 05:06 AM
Response to Reply #148
149. I meant to add
K&R
:kick:
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Toasterlad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 05:55 AM
Response to Original message
153. He Fooled You, Alright.
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lamp_shade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 05:57 AM
Response to Original message
154. I like.
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Honeycombe8 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 05:59 AM
Response to Original message
155. Well, except that Obama HASN'T said that. And he didn't plan that. You're hoping is all.
You hope you're right. I hope you're right. We all hope this comes to pass.

But the FACT is...no, the Dems didn't foresee this. No, the Dems didn't plan for this. And no, the Dems are probably not going to grow balls overnight and pass something the birthers and yellers and gun toters don't want. They are now fearful of an uprising.
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katty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #155
232. the Dems certainly haven't & won't grow balls overnight
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GaYellowDawg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 06:14 AM
Response to Original message
158. But what about the damn Blue Dogs?!?
What kind of ju-jitsu gets pulled on them?
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 06:28 AM
Response to Original message
160. I've heard this before..
.... and maybe you are right but I doubt it.

If reform with a public option is made into law, I will applaud your foresight. But I don't think it is going to happen, and anything short of the public option is not reform at all.
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indimuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 06:31 AM
Response to Original message
161. knr! nt
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adamuu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 07:34 AM
Response to Original message
162. Cool. Still, Don't let up the pressure. They need pressure from progressives. n/t
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adamuu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 07:37 AM
Response to Original message
163. Obama, Pelosi, and Reid should appear together in press conference, taking turns speaking
To make the unity absolutely clear to the public.
Passing "no bill" is not an option. The voters made their opinion clear in November.
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Christa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 07:44 AM
Response to Original message
164. K & Highly rec'd nt
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spiritual_gunfighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 07:45 AM
Response to Original message
165. Is Kent Conrad saying
"We NEVER had the votes for the public option" part of the grand chess game as well?
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sellitman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 07:54 AM
Response to Original message
166. Stomp the MFing God dammed sonofbitch bastards now!
Time for all Democrats to stand up and be counted.

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wroberts189 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 07:59 AM
Response to Original message
167. excellent post knr
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 07:59 AM
Response to Original message
168. Of course Obama did not say what you put quotes around
And over the last few days, many millions of people, including Unions, told the Democrats they need to gain a spine or expect no support in 2010. So they got put on notice. Big time. Voices were raised, and they had to hear..
Here is the thing on being a Jedi Master. It is not about tactics, it is about being victorious. One is a Master when one wins, vanquishing the enemy. It takes actual victory to be a 'chess master' or a 'Jedi master' not merely a blustery style. A chess master wins games. That is the whole of master status. Not how he wins, just that he wins. Prior to victory, no one has mastered anyone, and such presumptions are a path to defeat.
The proof is in the pudding. Actions are all. Blather is just blather. Words are cheap, a politician's words are the cheapest of all.
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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 08:06 AM
Response to Original message
169. For 8 years we've had a dumbass as a president so even we dems have to get use to a guy
who plays the smartest game of chess in town.

And since we only need 51 votes that means we can say a big FUCK YOU to blue dog dems too.
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NorthCarolina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 08:06 AM
Response to Original message
170. I hope you're right, but what about the DLC and Blue Dogs?
Do Dems have the numbers to pass anything without support of Conservadems?
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Lena inRI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 08:24 AM
Response to Original message
173. If you're right, we have this lady to thank . . .
. . .at so many levels. . .health care reform being just one area. . .yeah,President Obama, keep channeling your Mom, Ann Dunham. . .

please do this in her memory. . .

Medicare for all is SO PIVOTAL for us as a culture . . .and for your Mom's legacy.









:fistbump: :loveya: :fistbump: :loveya: :fistbump:
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eagertolearn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 09:01 AM
Response to Original message
175. This is what I was thinking all along...but the possible dump of the public
option when I want single payer was a real low this weekend. I hope you are right!
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dothemath Donating Member (221 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 09:24 AM
Response to Original message
176. Who makes the laws?
The president? I don't think so. Do you want your senator or representative to swear he/she will do exactly what their president tells them to do, no questions asked, all the time?

Is it possible democrats in the House and Senate can get together and fashion health reform legislation that best serves all the people all the time? Isn't that the reason Americans, in the last election, voted overwhelmingly to elect enough democrats to do just that? Is that not good enough?

President Obama is, I am confident, using his intelligence, his best judgment and the resources at his command to lead his party (and mine) to just that. But, if the only way he can do it is to ORDER congressional democrats what to propose and how to vote on the proposal, I am not in favor of that scenario.

We just finished 8 years of 'lockstep' representation. Need I remind anyone of the condition this nation was in when they left on Jan. 20?

I sure as h*ll hope not.
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closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 09:28 AM
Response to Original message
177. He sure did play them, didn't he? Brilliant.
:)
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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 09:35 AM
Response to Original message
178. Sorry - we've been sorely disappointed too many times before...
I will wait till this is OVER before I hop on the bandwagon...

This "MAY" happen...

That "MAY" happen...

sorry - fool me once, shame on me, fool me twice, I begin to question...

fool three or more times, as Obama has with donnie mcglurkin, rick warren, bush* spying, INCREASING the scope of the ILLEGAL Iraq lbushwar, INCREASING the bushWar in Afghanistan, not releasing the TORTURE photos, forgetting about DADT and being AGAINST Gay Equality - sorry if I don't share all your delusions...

no, this time I'll keep my JUST and DESERVED CRITICISMS of him until I see different...

don't forget, just YESTERDAY he AGAIN said the public "option" let alone SINGLE PAYER was OFF THE TABLE!!!

now a day later, he FLIP-FLOPS!

tomorrow's a new day - I'm sure he'll FLIP-FLOP again...unfortunately...
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rockymountaindem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #178
179. No, he never said the public option was off the table
He said it was just a piece of the puzzle, and maybe not even the most important piece. There are multiple reasons why he might have said that, too.
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grahamhgreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 09:44 AM
Response to Original message
180. I hope he includes single payer or Medicare for all and bulk drug pricing!
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pattmarty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 09:45 AM
Response to Original message
182. Hey, I would like to believe as you that he is "superprez", but..........
.........they floated this trial shit over the w/e and they fucked up, plain and simple. It seems NOW to be working in their favor and maybe they will take the initiative and start attacking instead of his wishy washy shit he's been playing the past couple of months.
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wryter2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 09:52 AM
Response to Original message
183. You bet
Edited on Wed Aug-19-09 09:53 AM by wryter2000
Now, we need to be flooding the White House with support because you KNOW they're hearing from the other side.
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Piewhacket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 10:20 AM
Response to Original message
186. Amusing rhetoric , WeDidIt, but Dean says it has been "bungled" and needs a "reset"...
and frankly, if the "political" Force is in play, then the dark side of it
seems most evident here.

I believe Obama has the opportunity and is positioned to be one of America's greatest presidents,
I see the real potential... but the "jedi" in the admin had better get this done
WITH a public option or we'll all return to cataloging Obama disappointments over
the last 6 months as a testament to his leadership when he was granted the reigns of power.



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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 10:28 AM
Response to Original message
187. Obama is the fool. He is a fool because he pushed health care reform
without first determining whether he had the votes in his own party. That is idiotic.
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SharonRB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 10:54 AM
Response to Original message
188. I never doubted him for a second.
He's a master chess player and they played right into his hands. Now if we can only get the Blue Dogs...
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felinetta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 11:16 AM
Response to Original message
190. People still have a "pre-Obama" mind set on both the left and the right. But he is a
consummate chess player.  So just watch what is in play. He is
more than
aware of his chess moves.  And I think one of them is getting
us to join him again as we did with
the grassroots movement that got him elected.  Our job didn't
end with his election.  What did 
he always say?  Yes, WE can.  This is OUR moment. This is
about all of us. So stop complaining and be part of the
change.  BTW, he is no drama Obama.  Everyone was so concerned
about the pirates on 
our ship, and then all of a sudden, problem solved.  Again,
with the two journalists who were
freed.  Obama knows who to use to achieve good goals.  I love
this man!
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subcomhd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
198. Let's Hope So
It is also funny to watch those here who shit on Obama no matter what. My favorites are those who said they supported him but don't now because he isn't for single payer (just like he said he wasn't during the campaign.) They aren't even a magic pony crowd - they are just a shit on the Democratic President crowd.
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
199. I hope so!
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BlancheSplanchnik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
201. I don't think it's any supernatural powers on Obama's part
but I do think he has a startling combination of intelligence, courage, street smarts, awareness of right timing, wisdom, compassion and perception into the behavior of people/groups.

And, I also wait to see the final results.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
203. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Swede Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #203
205. You spelled liar incorrectly.
Welcome,I think.
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CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #203
206. you misspelled "Liar"...that's good
i enjoyed that. :rofl:
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Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #203
208. How does it feel to be unskilled at deception? n/t
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #203
210. Welcome to DU.
:eyes:
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #203
211. LOL... hi, moran!
Be sure to tell all your idiot friends we said "suck it, losers!" :hi:
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OneGrassRoot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #203
213. Poor thing. You're really not very good at this troll thing, are you?

I feel bad for you and the whole "destruction of our society" crowd.

The world as you know it is gone. Actually, isn't that what you guys really want -- the whole apocalypse thing?

Go find a cave to hide in until The Rapture comes. It'll be fine.

(psssst...when it does, may I have your stuff?)

:hippie:

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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #203
214. How sad your life must be when you have to spend it talking to people you hate.
No friends? Not surprising, with such a warm personality. :crazy:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #203
217. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #203
218. Do I smell pizza?
:rofl:
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #218
220. Yes, yes you do
O8)
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windoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 01:09 PM
Response to Original message
204. President Obama is willing to face Americans personally,
and calls their bluff, while * only spoke to pre screened audiences, and hid behind scripted sound bites and his propaganda machine.

Most people will not have the backbone to face him, nor are they able to, on his level. He is not lowering himself one molecule to their level of discourse. He is not matching their fear with more fear or threats, to diffuse the situation. All people want a calm and collected leader, and someone who is brave--and that he is.

Yes, he has impeccable timing, and knows when there is an opening to show his cards. He has to be this stealth, being surrounded by people who have very different agendas.
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ut oh Donating Member (190 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 01:19 PM
Response to Original message
209. Where's da link to an actual statement though?
I'm very hopeful this is the case, but I haven't yet see this statement.... I guess I miss something?

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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 01:21 PM
Original message
dup
Edited on Wed Aug-19-09 01:21 PM by jgraz
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
212. Thanks, I'll take my leadership straight up if you don't mind.
I'm not sure why you need head-fakes on something supported by 80% of Americans.
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davidwparker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 01:29 PM
Response to Original message
215. Let me know when the Dems get a public health option through the
DEMOCRATICALLY controlled Congress. No need to wait until the (D) president signs the bill into law.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 01:58 PM
Response to Original message
221. I wasn't on the rolly coaster. Woohoo!
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
222. He's a master of both chess and Rope-a-Dope.
I still want single payer, but I'll settle for a well-crafted public option with major subsidies for low income people like myself.

When the flaws begin to show with the new plan, we'll eventually GET single payer
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AllyCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
223. "Dems consider..." For Pete's sake this just occurred to them?
God I hope you are right. I am losing faith and I want health care!
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RoccoR5955 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 02:09 PM
Response to Original message
224. Sounds logical to me...
Let them have their rant, then let the cons say that they will not negotiate on the Public Option. Then they can't go home and say that they were willing to negotiate.
Hopefully he can use some of LBJ's tactics and strongarm some Senators into voting for this bill. That's where I am concerned that this thing can get messed up.
However, Obama has proven to me, that he is a very intelligent man, and can use their tactics against them, and win the bigger battle.
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nini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 02:13 PM
Response to Original message
226. CNN now.. a woman is saying the republicans ARE cooperating
LOL they're backed into a corner here. She said if you watch cable news you may think the republicans aren't cooperating by those town halls, but they are - we just don't see it when they're behind closed doors!

hahahhahahhahahahhahaha


Dumb fuckers. Obama IS changing the way Washington works - he ain't taking their shit and he's beating their own game.



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DailyGrind51 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 02:15 PM
Response to Original message
227. We now all see "them" for what they are!
Edited on Wed Aug-19-09 02:15 PM by DailyGrind51
So, that we can just do what must be done without them.
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Tx4obama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 02:29 PM
Response to Original message
228. Obama always plays chess, the checker players haven't figured that out yet. n/t
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 03:36 PM
Response to Original message
233. Lovely scenario, if you're right . . . let's hear it for MEDICARE FOR ALL . . .
Everyone in -- no one out !!

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Butch350 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 03:39 PM
Response to Original message
234. Oh Boy! Some of the Fair Weather Fans are back!

...how long ya gonna stay this time?
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 03:41 PM
Response to Original message
236. From your keyboard to the ears of she who can make it happen.....
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flamingdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 04:20 PM
Response to Original message
241. Dat's my chessman - my pres is not to be underestimated nt
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ejbr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 05:46 PM
Response to Original message
244. Americans, in general, are so STOOPID though!
The majority want healthcare reform, but also a majority wants it done with the repigs blessings, as if they have blessed ANYTHING Dems have done so far! (with the exception of lauding Hawaii's 40th anniversary)
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Jester Messiah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 05:54 PM
Response to Original message
245. Sure hope you're right.
If Obama allows himself to be defeated this early in his term, and on such a monumentally central issue, then he might as well pull a Palin and abdicate. No one will take him seriously ever again, and he'll never see a second term. Rightly so.
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cindyfaulkner Donating Member (67 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 06:49 PM
Response to Original message
250. I believe and hope this
is exacatly what it is.
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YOY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 06:59 PM
Response to Original message
251. I hope you are right.
Truly I do.
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sandyj999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 07:12 PM
Response to Original message
253. He Knows What He Is Doing. n/t
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DWilliamsamh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 07:25 PM
Response to Original message
255. I hope you are right....But I don't really think so.
But I have to tell you the schizophrenia in the message coming out of the White House regarding the importance of the public option is down right scary. I hope I look back on this and see the truth of what you are saying, but it sure doesn't fee that way to my spider senses.

I PRAY to FSM I am wrong!
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KansDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 07:40 PM
Response to Original message
256. "That's the 'Chicago' way"
It seems "community organizers" do have "actual responsibilities," Sarah...

Sarah? SARAH?

What ever happened to Sarah?
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President Decider Donating Member (646 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 08:01 PM
Response to Original message
257. ** BOOM GOES THE DYNAMITE !!!* *** K&R .... this post makes too much sense!
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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 08:19 PM
Response to Original message
258. You sure do head-whipping U-Turns .......
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scentopine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 08:26 PM
Response to Original message
259. All wimper, no bang - insurance cos don't have a right to health care
Edited on Wed Aug-19-09 08:27 PM by scentopine
These two statements imply that bi-partisanship is still the priority (after all it was a tie election and its been so long since republicans had control, ya know... I'm just saying...).

I wish both of these bone heads would sit down and shut up and let real humans develop a bill that serves the public first. Insurance companies do not have a right to health care.


From NBC's Mark Murray
Not sure how he believes this after Chuck Grassley's comments on Monday, but Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus has released a statement stressing that his committee is still working on a bipartisan bill.

Baucus:

Bipartisan progress continues. The Finance Committee is on track to reach a bipartisan agreement on comprehensive health care reform that can pass the Senate. Our group will be meeting tomorrow and our staffs continue to meet as well. I am confident we will continue our steady progress toward health care reform that will lower costs and provide quality, affordable coverage to all Americans.

From NBC's Mark Murray
Earlier today, Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus released a statement stressing his desire for a bipartisan health-care bill. Now ranking member Chuck Grassley -- despite his earlier words that he'd vote against any legislation that doesn't attract more GOP support, even if it contains everything he's asking for -- says he wants to "keep working" to craft a bipartisan bill.

Grassley:
Ive said all year that something as big and important as health care legislation should have broad-based support. So far, no one has developed that kind of support, either in Congress or at the White House. That doesnt mean we should quit. It means we should keep working until we can put something together that gets that widespread support.

found at http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com /




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JackDragna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 10:17 PM
Response to Original message
263. Horse puckey.
After talking himself out of so many strong policy positions and campaign promises, I wouldn't believe the president if he told me the sky is blue. Nor am I set to believe anything out of the mouths of the Dems on the Hill. If they were serious about a "public option," they would have gone to it from the get-go. If you don't believe me, ask yourself this question: when Bush was in power, how many times did he hem and haw to get Democratic support for things? Zero. He pushed, cajoled, bribed and bullied his way into getting it.
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deaniac21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 01:29 PM
Response to Original message
267. I BELIEVE ! ! ! ! !
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masuki bance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 05:23 PM
Response to Original message
268. hope your right. nt
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Romberry Donating Member (632 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 10:26 PM
Response to Original message
269. Bad satire or delusion
Look, I understand your desire, even your need, to believe this sort of...well...nonsense. But it truly is nonsense.

As I posted at Salon:

First it was FISA "reform" which Obama pledged to filibuster...but voted for. Then it was a stimulus package that was larded with tax cuts as the starting point instead of actual effective stimulus. Then it was billions in bailouts for Wall Street...and "voluntary" help for mortgage holders which, oddly enough, the mortgage companies are not lining up in droves to volunteer for. And lessee here...rule of law and holding torturers and their superiors/enablers to account? Not so much. Actual withdrawal (as opposed to on-paper "we won't call 'em combat troops so they no longer count as combat troops") from Iraq? Stopping the slaughter of civilians from the air via drones in AfPak because we "suspect" that there are militants (which we now call terrorists) in the area? Reining in obscene executive compensation for companies which have received billions and billions of taxpayer dollars to bail them out? No, no and no.

Obama seems to have some great facility in making liberals and progressives think he is their ally. He isn't. He's a wholly owned subsidiary of big money and everything he does proves it.


Keep on believing if that is what you want to do. But when this thing gets passed with no public option, no real effective controls on big pharma and big insurance and a mandate amounting to a tax which requires you and me and everyone else to send monthly checks to for-profit insurers without choice or recourse to a strong public option, have the decency to come back here and admit that you were wrong. If I am wrong, I assure you I will more than happily admit it. In fact, being wrong would make me 'effing ecstatic.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #269
270. they'll still be making excuses for him
saying it's all part of some kind of big "strategy"
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LunaSea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 11:57 PM
Response to Original message
271. I have a good feeling about this.
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