we SHOULD love our cars...

[dysfunctional press]

http://www.newsweek.com/id/212136

President Obama set aside $8 billion for high-speed trains in the stimulus package, and Congress added another $1.2 billion. Yet many economists now say the costs of building a high-speed rail network far outstrip possible the benefits, especially when cars are becoming more energy-efficient. Harvard economist Edward Glaeser has studied the supposed environmental benefits, guided by the carbon-emission data used by environmental advocates. He pegs the annual environmental benefit for a 240-mile high-speed rail line that attracts 1.5 million riders at $4.2 million, a small return given the billions it would cost. Cato scholar Randal O'Toole notes that French and Japanese ride their bullet trains less than 400 miles a year on average, and estimates that an American network would take, at best, 3.5 percent of cars off the road.

our entire society and infrastructure are based around personal vehicles, and that just isn't going to change, no matter how much some people hate them.

get over it already- we just aren't going to have a nationwide network of bullet trains anytime soon, if ever.

[david13]

1. I love my cars, as they are gas sipping sensible cars, and not

the gas guzzling monstrosities, the lumber wagons, that most of these idiots drive around in, with no cargo and one person, while they complain about the price of gas (some of the lowest in the world) and the president.
dc

[Gidney N Cloyd]

2. How does the cost of building, expanding, and repairing the roads figure in?

[taterguy]

3. Only when cars start loving us back

All they do is take our money, and fuck up the air we breath.

Sure, they're good for a little instant gratification.

But is there any real love involved?

[customerserviceguy]

5. "But is there any real love involved?"

Maybe in the back seat. But that can't be said for any car built since 1974.

[taterguy]

6. If what you're implying involves doing things with the car then I'd rather not know about it

[customerserviceguy]

7. Gosh, no!

I meant, two people in the backseat.

(Sigh) I guess I remember the days before the VCR where you went to the drive-in with your sweetie!

[originalpckelly]

9. I think we all know you LOVE cars.

:P

[customerserviceguy]

10. Let's face it

during my teen years, they were the only thing that loved me back!

[Maru Kitteh]

15. It's BREATHE, not "breath."

You breathe the air. Before you go underwater, you should take a breath.

:banghead:

[BeatleBoot]

4. Autos are Depreciable Assets

And Depreciable Assets are not a good investment.

But I agree that habits/lifestyle won't change.

But, personally, I hope my autos last long enough ao that I can buy an Electric Car "down the road".

[dysfunctional press]

14. i don't see a car as an "asset" or an "investment"...

i see it as a conveyance to get me where i want to go, when i want to go there.

[originalpckelly]

8. You can't power airplanes with electricity and trains don't drop 40,000 ft out of the sky.

At some point people will face the reality of global warming, and they will see that all vehicles must be powered with clean eletricity, trains can do that, planes cannot.

I don't think trains can compete with cars directly, but they can provide longer distance travel usually associated with regional air.

[MindPilot]

11. High-speed trains are probably still viable for mid-range travel.

Say between 100 & 500 miles, more than that, fly.

But from an environmentalstand point, maybe it's time to revisit the airship for longer-range travel. New materials would make them safe and there's plenty of surface area for solar panels...

[dysfunctional press]

13. helium is in very short supply, worldwide iirc...

so airships might be difficult on a wide scale.

as far as rail travel for trips of 100-500 miles- if there were truly a market for it, amtrak would be doing gangbusters.

[taterguy]

16. People generally choose the cheapest, easiest mode of travel

Our government subsidizes automobile usage more heavily than rail so that's why it's more popular.

I prefer trains, because I can read, write or do whatever the hell I want.

If I have to drive my attention has to be be focused on the road.

But for most destinations, there either isn't a train that goes there or it's prohibitively expensive.

[dysfunctional press]

18. and for most people- that's an automobile.

you may prefer trains- but the VAST MAJORITY of people in this country simply don't.

sorry. :shrug:

[taterguy]

20. People like automobiles because they're the most heavily subsidized form of transportation

People like what's least expensive.

In other news, water is wet.

[dysfunctional press]

21. actually- people enjoy the freedom their cars give them to go where they please when they please.

and automobiles themselves are NOT "subsidized"- public roads may be- but that's more about interstate commerce than personal transportation.

in this country it's about the freedom of movement that private transportation provides people- for the greatest number of people, cars will win out over trains EVERY TIME.

[taterguy]

22. I guess EVERY TIME doesn't include places like New York City

The ability to set your own schedule is just one of many factors that determines how people get from Point A to Point B.

And actually, automobiles are subsidized. Ever hear of something called Cash For Clunkers?

That's just one of many ways the government makes it cheaper to own and operate automobiles.

[dysfunctional press]

23. public transportation is FAR more subsidized than cars.

"cash for clunkers" is one program- and a very successful one. keynsian economics in action. and there are a number of facets to it- the primary one being to get less fuel efficient cars off the road, which is beneficial in more ways than one.

as far as new york city and trains vs. cars- not even all of the boroughs are created equal- cars fare much better in some areas of the city- but despite that, i had said that for most people cars will win out every time- and in this intance, perhaps not all of nyc gets included in "most people". but for "most people" in this country- it still holds true- cars are much preferable to trains.

sorry. :shrug:
(not really)

[taterguy]

24. Please cite a source that states public transit is more heavily subidized than automobile usage

I suspect I'll be waiting a while.

[taterguy]

25. I'm still waiting for confirmation that mass transit get more subsidies than cars

[seabeckind]

12. I'm not sure the author is non-biased

Edward Glaeser seems to offer a suggestion of balance but he has a few articles espousing small government. This may or may not be true. So I'm not sure of his motives in opposing high speed rail. He certainly only presents one side of the numbers.

The fact is that cars cost us a tremendous amount of resources, in the production, the roads, the loss of usable space for other purposes, not to mention the inherent tendency toward so much loss to our society. Eg, how much is 90 minutes sitting on I5 in Seattle worth to you? Would you kill to get to the next exit?

A high speed rail link followed by a regional link followed by an ease to obtain local personal transport would be ideal. Anybody who says they like to drive hasn't traveled the northern route from Billings MT to Madison WI. Hel, I'll bet they've never driven across South Dakota. Any trip I've taken, after the first hour I'm so bored I could eat the steering wheel. That and trying to find a clean looking john -- or a motel after 10 hours.

And a plane for an alternative? Lord, I wouldn't wish flebitis on anyone.

So you guys can love your car -- give me the Eurostar anyday. My hotel in Paris, RER(?) to Gare du Nord, then London downtown -- 4 hours. In comfort. Then 4 more hours trying to find a road out of London. Passed Victoria Station so many times I was on a first name basis with the pigeons.

[dysfunctional press]

19. i doubt that there's enough traffic between madison WI and Billings MT...

to justify the cost of a high-speed rail line between the two.

i doubt that north dakota is high on the list of proposed high-speed rail corridors.

[LanternWaste]

17. i imagine many people have bought into tha

I imagine many people have bought into that effective, efficient, multi-generational marketing campaign-- regardless of how cynical they may think themselves.

Great thing about cultures-- they adapt.

ed: sp