Is it time for the progressives to consider a primary challenger to Obama in 2012?

[grahamhgreen]

Is it time for the progressives to consider a primary challenger to Obama in 2012?

Now that it looks like he may give in to corporate interests on health-care, is it time for progressives and liberals to consider the possibility of running a primary challenger to the president in 2012? Most of our other issues have been washed over already.

This might help separate out our philosophy from that of the corporate controlled dems.

That being (if I may be so bold):

Universal health care for every American.
Ending poverty and homelessness.
Out of Iraq and Afghanistan.
Ending wars for profit.
Prosecuting crimes committed under the previous administration - including possible war crimes.
Returning manufacturing and other outsourced jobs to the USA.
Renewable/unlimited energy.
End global warming.
Environment over profits.
Ending rendition and torture.
Closing Gitmo.
Breaking up monopolistic corporations and banks.
etc......


Right now, if health care fails because Obama refused to push for single-payer or national health, the credit will be given by the media to the right wing PR firms & deathers for killing the bill, when the real reason it may fail is because Obama refuses to motivate and mobilize the core people who put him in the White House - the progressive wing of the Democratic party.

It may be time to start some grumbling about a primary challenger in order to encourage Obama to move back to his roots.

He is, after all, essentially a mediator, and will want to placate us by adopting some of our positions to quell the movement, I would hope.

If not, we will let the American people know that there are those of us who know the only way we can truly move forward is by standing up to, not caving in to, corporate interests.

Is it time to consider such an option?

[HERVEPA]

1. I think you are living in an alternative universe

[timeforpeace]

36. Are you suggesting this because he is black? Isn't it racist to oppose him?

[grahamhgreen]

47. Not getting into the who of it yet, just ruminating on if this may move O to the left. Maxine Waters

should be considered, IMHO.

[brooklynite]

73. How well did Ted Kennedy's challenge in 1980 make Carter's second term more progressive?

Oh, right....

[WI_DEM]

2. No. Obama will easily be renominated in 2012. He has done quite well

on some issues but has a way to go on other issues--health care included. Who will progressives run? no liberal/progressive democrat who is also a serious politician will challenge him. So that just leaves folks like Kucinich who wouldn't even win there home state in a primary.

[grahamhgreen]

48. It may not be a matter of winning - just re-framing the debate away from the deathers and birthers

Right now, he is negotiating with these people but not with us!

[JDPriestly]

95. What issues has Obama done well on? I can't think of one that matters to me.

[oviedodem]

3. I hope you realize that someone who wants all of that WILL NEVER IN A

MILLION YEARS be elected in this country. You also seem to forget that the congress runs this country, so unless you start with them you are basically screaming at a wall.

[grahamhgreen]

49. I think that FDR and JFK and RFK and MLK all stood for these things. I think you should reconsider

your position.

In fact , I think that is why Obama won - not because he refuses to stop rendition.

[JamesA1102]

84. MLK was never president

Nor was RFK. And most of the issues you mention were not issues when JFK or FDR were President so you really have no idea what their positions would be on something like Global Warming.

You forget that JFK ran as a defense hawk claiming there was a missle gap and then increased defense spending when he won. He also cut taxes on coporations.

FDR also vastly increased military spending and pushed the nation into a war that they didn't want to be involved in. Then he illegally inturned thousands of Japanese-Americans.

[blondeatlast]

88. Beat me to it and good points all. Besides, I hate to think what we might end up with if Obama isn't

re-elected.

Yipes.

[Capn Sunshine]

106. JFK?

JFK was hardly progressive. Obama never claimed to be progressive any more than Hillary did.
He's a centrist, but he's OUR centrist.

[JDPriestly]

97. Trust me, if Obama backs a plan that requires Americans to buy into

and subsidize the purchase of health care through private insurance companies, no Democrat will ever be elected again. The alternative of co-ops and requiring people to buy private insurance coverage is too expensive. Americans will never, never forgive this cop-out.

Co-ops are a cop-out. Make no mistake.

[polichick]

4. Couldn't hurt - another way to hold feet to the fire. nt

[MNDemNY]

5. No, that would be silly , at this point.

[daninthemoon]

6. If nothin else, maybe it will get Obama's attention. Remember us?

We the people, the folks who voted and campaigned for you? It wasn't that long ago was it?

[glinda]

7. No. Poisoned thinking.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

8. Hopefully several progressives will step up and challenge him.

[butterfly77]

100. And no one will be satisfied with them either.....

This has been the fastest I have seen people begin complaining in my whole life. I can see why on this health issue but some people want everything done in the first 2or3 months. What will Obama's job be for the next 3 and a half years?

[grahamhgreen]

115. By then we may have 500,000 troops in Afghanistan... fighting for our Islamic republic....

[Botany]

9. Down Boy

[auditguy]

10. nice list..but...

sounds a bit like a beauty pageant contestant saying she want's World Peace...tall order..

ending poverty?...great idea...how?

[grahamhgreen]

45. Simple. A no-brainer. Go back to the 91% top tax rate of Eisenhower, release

drug possession prisoners. Stop funding wars for profit, etc.

Use the money saved to start a dole system similar what is used in the enlightened social democracies of Europe and Australasia.

It is a fault of capitalism that in any capitalist system there will be unemployment.

Therefore, these people will either go hungry or be forced to commit crimes, unless we provide a stipend for them.

Therefore, since it costs $50,000+- to keep someone in jail for a year, it is cheaper for all of us to provide these people with a small stipend of say $12,000 a year.

Thus ending poverty - it's a no-brainer!

[azmouse]

11. Didn't we just have an election?

Why are we worried about the next one already? Isn't there enough to do right now?

[grahamhgreen]

50. Yes - we need single-payer, how are we going to get it?

[JDPriestly]

101. Do you seriously think swing voters will back another Democrats ever

if Obama forces them to buy into private health insurance schemes and pay subsidies so that the poor can also buy into them. No.


Obama is making a mess of the economy, failing to prosecute those who violated our basic rights and now is opting for an insurance "reform" that will be less wieldy and more expensive than the mess we have now.

Obama has failed and he isn't even a year into his term. What a disappointment. What a cruel joke.

Name one important thing that Obama has done that has really improved the lives of all Americans. And don't mention the Lilly Ledbetter Act. That was pretty inconsequential in an economy in which there are no jobs. Obama's recovery plan has only helped the rich and powerful. If you think I am wrong, ask the thousands of teachers who got their pink slips in California in recent weeks.

[Bill McBlueState]

12. awesome

Just over the weekend, I was thinking about how a certain element of DU would start acting like there might be a Democratic presidential primary in 2012 if we all wish hard enough. I must be psychic.

[redqueen]

33. This primary talk started here months ago.

[grahamhgreen]

51. Well, if he caves on the public option, I think it's time to get serious. Is the a Dem comittee for

this yet?

[OHdem10]

13. This is a joke, is it not??? You're kidding of course.

[Shagbark Hickory]

14. Would it matter? They all start out progressive then by the time gen election rolls around they are

staunch right wingers bought and paid for by lobbiests just like president obama.

[polichick]

35. There's too much truth to that for comfort...

Although I wonder how much is the money and how much the outright threats ~ maybe even to family members.

If you've ever dealt with a single sociopath, it's not hard to imagine what happens when you're faced with hundreds.

[Bobbie Jo]

15. < 0 .

[sinkingfeeling]

16. You certainly may do so, but he/she won't be the Democratic nominee.

[rox63]

17. Are you f***ing insane?

Just asking... :crazy:

[DevonRex]

25. Yes.

:evilgrin:

[grahamhgreen]

52. Then how do we get you guys to address our progressive/liberal/left concerns?

[DevonRex]

68. Sweetie, I AM a liberal. Personally I'd like Medicare for everybody.

I just had enough sense from the beginning to know that wasn't gonna happen.

I'll tell you what I've been doing. Every single time a Democratic Senator or Representative says they won't vote for the public option, I email them. Sometimes I even call if they really pissed me off. I also went to MY congressman's meeting the other night, even though he's a republican. Thankfully he is a little bit reasonable. Only a little bit, mind you, but that's better than the last representative we had who was a total nutcase.

I simply don't lay the entire blame for this at one man's feet. Because THAT is unreasonable given our system of government. I also refuse to be part of the crowd that turns tail and runs whenever the going gets tough. I won't let the MSM divide and conquer and I don't let third parties divide and conquer either.

[blondeatlast]

90. I'm willing to bet Obama, in his heart of hearts, would love to see a universal Medicare plan.

But he has to deal with that hideous block of blue dogs and DINOS in his way.

[DevonRex]

92. ITA. Damned blue dogs are always the problem. nt

[JDPriestly]

102. Obama is the president. Part of his job is controlling mavericks in his

own party. He has failed at that part of his job. I realize that a lot of people are heavily invested in wanting to view Obama as a success no matter what he does. But I assure you, swing voters are not going to like the cost of a health insurance plan that forces Americans to pay the exorbitant costs of the premiums of health care insurance for others and that ultimately does nothing to control the costs of their own insurance.

Obama is not listening to us. Kucinich is much smarter than Obama, just not as tall and good-looking. Personally, I'm sorry I did not back Kucinich from the beginning.

[blondeatlast]

109. Nope, that's the majority whip's job. Civics 101, remember? nt

[JDPriestly]

110. If you think Johnson left getting stuff through Congress up to the majority whip,

you need to review your history. The Civil Rights Act and Medicare are just two bills that Johnson rammed down the greedy throats of Congress. Yes. He was only one term. But his one term helped more poor people than any president before or since except Roosevelt.

[blondeatlast]

89. The Senate and the House. Get rid of the blue dogs and the DINOs and the President will come to us.

I just know you know Civics 101. Any reasonably smart political wonk would, right?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

18. GrahamHGreen... Green.... Heh...

Fuck Nader

[DevonRex]

22. Good catch. :)

[blondeatlast]

91. Oooh--good catch, very good. I didn't notice it at first. What OMC said. nt

[grahamhgreen]

117. That really is my name... funnily enough.....

[Atman]

19. Is it time for you to start thinking in the here and now, and not 2012?

Dear lord, man, come down off the ledge. It hasn't even been a year yet!

.

[grahamhgreen]

53. Nip it in the bud. We can't let America think Obama is far left - because he's not.

[DarthDem]

20. Ahhhhhhhhh

The sweet sound of UNNNNNNNNNNNrecommending.

[shimmergal]

21. It's time to find primary challengers

for some of those blue dog Senators, esp. those that'll be running in 2010. Much more do-able, and it might make a real difference on some of the issues.

Although at this time, worthy as they are, it'll be hard to find a constituency for some of those foreign-policy and military-related aims. Even for progressives, there a only so many issues they can really push on at once. It's such a relief to get rid of the Bush/Cheney bully-boy approach, I doubt there are many votes in headlining these other issues.

[grahamhgreen]

54. If Obama sides with the blue-dogs it will give them more clout in the locals....

[JDPriestly]

105. Too late.

The compromise to which Obama is agreeing will completely alienate swing voters from the Democratic Party. Obama is supporting a health care "reform" plan that will raise costs, not lower them. Shame on him.

His plan will alienate lower middle class voters who will have to pay their hard-earned money to buy insurance from private plans. It will alienate professionals and others who earn good salaries who will quickly see that their money is being wasted on paying the inflated health insurance costs of companies who buy lobbyists and TV commentators and deduct the some of those costs from their taxes as "advertising, pay enormous salaries to their CEOS and top administrators (and lawyers) and, in exchange for their pay, deny legitimate claims. Enough is enough.

Don't try to rationalize this. Don't play Pollyanna. President Obama is making a terrible mistake. He has allowed the Blue Dogs to take over. He should have said. OK. No deal. We'll put the health care proposals up for a vote in 2010 and 2012. A deal now is a doublecross.

[redqueen]

23. *roffle*

[DevonRex]

24. What, so the Greens can get elected?

:rofl:

[loyalkydem]

26. Geesh

the man hasn't finished his first term yet and you're already writing him off.

[grahamhgreen]

55. It is HE who is writing US off, IMHO....

[DeadEyeDyck]

27. and what message would that send to the world

when we replace the president who has won with the biggest majority since FDR?

[grahamhgreen]

56. That we are not conned by neo-con corporatists at any level. Do we prosecute for torture or

are we torturers - what message are we sending now?

[gmoney]

28. LaRouche?

:hide:

[Freddie Stubbs]

29. He is too old and sick. He didn't even run in 2008

[DeadEyeDyck]

32. You are kidding??

I didn't see you Sarcasm icon

[gmoney]

42. might as well be him...

or Nader or Kang or RuPaul or whoever...

until there are substantial number of 3rd party people in the house or senate, if by some miracle this "progressive" candidate was whisked into the presidency, how do they get anything done?

the so-called dems have all three houses and can't get anything done because Rush Limbaugh won't like it.

[grahamhgreen]

60. No, they can't get anything done because they refuse to adopt a populist agenda

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

59. I noticed the other day...

...that some of the teabag / town hall disruptor nutjobs appear to be LaRouchies.

[saltpoint]

79. I think it's fair to write LL off as a serious contender.

[Johonny]

30. yeah we should run Alan Keyes

just to remind people ow much worse your options can be

[cherokeeprogressive]

31. Racist

[auditguy]

34. huh? n/t

[SammyWinstonJack]

43. .

:eyes:

[undeterred]

37. Yes, Russ Feingold.

[omega minimo]

39. The few in Congress now doing The People's business would be good choices

[grahamhgreen]

61. All of these should be considered....

Albio Sires (NJ-13) Alcee Hastings (FL-23) Andre Carson (IN-07)
Barbara Lee (CA-09) Barney Frank (MA-14) Bennie Thompson (MS-02)
Bill Delahunt (MA-10) Bill Pascrell (NJ-08) Bob Filner (CA-51)
Carolyn Kilpatrick (MI-13) Carolyn Maloney (NY-14) Chaka Fattah (PA-02)
Chellie Pingree (MN-01) Corrine Brown (FL-03) Dennis Kucinich (OH-10)
Diane Watson (CA-33) Donald Payne (NJ-10) Donna Edwards (MD-04)
Earl Blumenauer (OR-03) Ed Towns (NY-10) Eddie Bernice Johnson (TX-30)
Elijah Cummings (MD-07) Emanuel Cleaver (MO-05) Eric Massa (NY-29)
Pete Stark (CA-13) Grace Napolitano (CA-38) Gwen Moore (WI-04)
Jackie Spier (CA-12) Jerry Nadler (NY-08) Jesse Jackson, Jr. (IL-02)
Jim McDermott (WA-07) Jim McGovern (MA-03) John Conyers (MI-14)
John Olver (MA-01) John Tierney (MA-06) John Yarmuth (KY-03)
Jose Serrano (NY-16) Judy Chu (CA-32) Keith Ellison (MN-05)
Laura Richardson (CA-37) Linda Sanchez (CA-39) Lloyd Doggett (TX-25)
Lucille Roybal-Alard (CA-34) Luis Gutierrez (IL-04) Lynn Woolsey (CA-06)
Marcia Fudge (OH-11) Marcy Kaptur (OH-09) Maurice Hinchey (NY-22)
Maxine Waters (CA-35) Mazie Hirono (HI-02) Mel Watts (NC-12)
Michael Honda (CA-15) Mike Capuano (MA-08) Nydia Valezquez (NY-12)
Peter DeFazio (OR-04) Phil Hare (IL-17) Raul Grijalva (AZ-07)
Robert Wexler (FL-19) Rush Holt (NJ-12) Sam Farr (CA-17)
Sheila Jackson Lee (TX-18) William Lacy Clay (M0-01) Yvette Clarke (NY-11)
Hank Johnson (GA-04)

[omega minimo]

67. Several good ones there and Jackie Spier would be a very good candidate.

[cali]

81. Infucking sane. Your OP is nuttier than a fruitcake and so is your list.

My guess is you don't know jackshit about the people on that list, dearie.

[PopSixSquish]

104. You Do Realize That Almost Everyone on Your List Endorsed Obama in 2008

and not a one of them would seriously consider running against him in 2012.

Go sell crazy someplace else...

[cali]

80. sorry, fantasist. Russ won't run against Obama anymore than Howard Dean will

Kucinich might. And he'll do as well as he did in the last 2 tries.

[omega minimo]

38. Will Kucinich run?

[grahamhgreen]

64. The calculation would be would it hurt him to run. Might be better for a lesser know

individual to break into the spotlight, although rather controversially.

BUT the corporate media will most likely give her or him a bit of airplay.

[omega minimo]

66. Unless the next Dem that runs is Progressive and the campaign sidesteps corpomedia stranglehold

might as well just hang it up. :thumbsdown: There REALLY is no Next Time.

[Dramarama]

87. Bill Maher FTW

jk

[grahamhgreen]

116. I love it! Why not - I think 15% support is the normal TV debate threshold - has to be good for

ratings!

[Juche]

40. Kucinich stood for that

I'm sure he will probably run in 2012 as a competitor.

[dionysus]

41. people say funny things after they spend the morning huffing cleaning products.

[Kansas Wyatt]

44. Look at all the people who think you are off your rocker.

These very people are the ones who will be scratching their heads the day after the 2012 Election wondering how people could 'vote against their best interests.' They claim to be so much more intelligent, but they cannot figure it out.

It is very simple... When all you offer the Working People (and you DO need Working People to win) is Chump Change Token Efforts, while turning over the Treasury to Corporate America, then the Working People decide their is NO choice and stay home on Election Day or settle for the 'Moral' rhetoric. The next thing you know, you have the "intelligent" Party trying to figure out how a Republican could have won.

As far as I'm concerned, every single Democratic Politician in Washington needs to have a serious Primary challenger, because they have finally shown their ass to the American People and it has a corporate logo on it.

[grahamhgreen]

46. Thanks for looking out! Do they realize at all that we are the people they need to win, I wonder?

[cali]

82. the number of mind numbingly stupid broad brush declarations

posted every day on DU, is boggling. Fortunately, you don't control anything, sweetie. In my state, Pat Leahy, Bernie and Peter Welsh will all be easily re-elected and there will be serious challenge to any of them.

[Kansas Wyatt]

85. So you think Democratic politicians should be given a FREE pass?

Talk about "mind numbingly stupid broad brush declarations." Oh my... Congress is so screwed up, but my Senator and Representative is perfect. A few years ago, you were probably scratching your head trying to figure out how people could vote against their best interests too.

THE ONLY THING THAT I SAID WAS THAT EVERY DEMOCRATIC POLITICIAN SHOULD HAVE A SERIOUS PRIMARY CHALLENGER. I DID NOT SAY THAT EVERY DEMOCRATIC POSITION SHOULD BE LOST TO A REPUBLICAN.

If a Democratic politician prefers Corporate America over the American People, then they need to have their asses kicked out in the Primary, BEFORE they end up losing to a "better" Republican and/or so their constituents can actually have a damn choice. Yet, you disagree! And people wonder how we could have ended up with Radical Republicans and Republican Lites running the country.

[JDPriestly]

108. I will never claim that Dianne Feinstein is perfect.

The only reason I voted for her is because no one had the courage to run against her.

[JDPriestly]

107. Absolutely. Why did people vote for GWB at all? Because they thought he had

a backbone. And he showed that he did -- for all the wrong things.


Obama is proving to be a wimp. No way he will be re-elected. Americans want to see their presidents as men of integrity and personal strength. We won't put up with strongmen. (At least we haven't thus far.) But we don't want people who give in too easily.

I'm disappointed that Obama does not know these fundamental facts about political life. I think he is poorly served by the mealy-mouthed people he has surrounded himself with -- just as Bush was.

Obama gets a lot of e-mails. I would like to know whether he is getting the e-mails telling him not to compromise.

[defendandprotect]

57. k i c k

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

58. Ron Paul, stop posting on DU.

Don't you have a movement of your own crazy people to run?

[grahamhgreen]

65. C'mon, we're the same people who stuck by Obama when they told us it could never happen.

[Engineer4Obama]

93. No

you're the people who said it would never happen. Or at the very least that's who you've thrown your lot in with - the maker of the Obama Joker poster was a DK supporter. You really wanna think about who a primary challenge would help?

[grahamhgreen]

111. Oops - replied to the wrong comment. NO libertarians for me, either, sorry!

[DutchLiberal]

62. If the progressives had just elected a progressive last year...

.. we wouldn't be having this discussion. But most self-identified 'progressives' saw Obama's sign that said "change" and they didn't pay attention to any of his ideas or positions. The truth is Obama never campaigned as a progressive, but as a centrist.

You may not like what he's doing, but he's being true to his campaign.

[LWolf]

63. I've been considering it since he was nominated. nt

[grahamhgreen]

69. From the responses, I would say the answer is

Yes, absolutely!

Time to consider this option.

Thanks for the input!

[WeDidIt]

70. Not yet

If he won't stand up for a public option, I'm with you.

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

71. not necessary

and, even if it was, ted kennedy tried it already in 1980
dem primary challenge to incumbent = rightwing victory, one term democrat

[AlphaCentauri]

72. Leaders who change the world are hard to find

I don't think there is any of that stature in any political party at this moment

[Zhade]

74. All I know is, after all of his broken promises, I will not vote for him again. PERIOD.

NT!

[Mott_De_Hoopil]

75. "Progressive" is code word for "Liberal"

there is nothing "progressive" about what you propose. This stuff has been promulgated for at least the last 40 years. Nothing new or fresh about it. Don't be afraid to admit what you are man. It's cool.

[grahamhgreen]

83. Essentially. But not overseas. This is why I used this wording in the OP:

"Now that it looks like he may give in to corporate interests on health-care, is it time for progressives and liberals to consider the possibility of running a primary challenger to the president in 2012? Most of our other issues have been washed over already."

Overseas, liberal can mean the exact opposite, ie 'neo-liberal = 'neo-conservative' in some countries.

But let's face it, other countries have instituted these policies and have better metrics than ours, it's time for us to do the same!

The economic and social benefits are enourmous!

[Hekate]

76. Ralphie, go home. You already did this in 2000.

:rofl:

[eridani]

77. Going against a sitting president of the same party is usually not a good idea

See 1980.

[saltpoint]

78. Once in a while incumbents are upset, unseated, etc.

Often when that happens something tumultuous puts the wind at someone else's back.

Far more rarely voters choose another primary nominee when the incumbent is perceived as satisfactory, even triumphant.

Obama's position is strong. It's possible that a blue dog will rise, raise a buck or two, and make some noise on the right-center, or that a more progressive challenge could come from Obama's left, but I'm not seeing a case for those candidacies in the 2012 Democratic primary.

Things can change in politics and in the current landscape. Events can conspire against incumbents, or for them.

I would not underestimate the Obama administration's ability to forge alliances that translate to renomination against all comers.

[readmoreoften]

86. The fact that this has negative recs is hilarious. Either Obama's astroturfers are on fire

or everyone is staking their hopes on Obama "finding courage." What's the point of having a "opposition party" that caves in on imperialism, anti-environmentalism, financial crime, and civil rights? :shrug:

Our lives trump waiting for some politician to find his voice.

[JDPriestly]

94. I'm with you.

The backlash against Obama's compromise with the private health care industry will destroy our party. He has betrayed everything we stand for. What does he think he is going to accomplish with this?

Subsidized private health care insurance will bankrupt the nation. The greed of these companies is unbelievably voracious. Americans will never trust a Democrat again if the burden of paying the unreasonable rates of these companies is thrust upon them by Obama and his gang of phony liberals.

This is an outrage. This amounts to forcing Americans to pay private companies to launder health care money. That is all it is.

This is full-blown fascism. Sorry but it is.

[HughMoran]

96. K&U

The U is for "unbelievable"

[grahamhgreen]

113. I know, I started the thread and I actually donated quite a bit of money to his campaign!

Unbelievable that we did an out of budget supplemental for 100 billion to the war profiteers when he promised not to!

Etc... i wont go into a litany.

You guys need to throw us progressives a bone - like single payer health care or medicare for all, war crimes prosecutions for torturing innocent people.

At least, be able to tell us WHAT HAPPENED TO OUR 9 TRILLION DOLLARS! (video) http://wallstreetblips.dailyradar.com/video/is_anyone_minding_the_store_at_the_federal_reserve/

Anything something, please, what you got for us?

[butterfly77]

98. I don't think so..

after 7 months! I have never seen this question asked about any Pres.

[yodoobo]

99. NO. We stand with Obama

Obama needs us all now more than ever.

If we turn on him now, all we will get is Republican in office.

[grahamhgreen]

112. But what does he stand for - seriously?

[yodoobo]

118. He stands for all of us. He always has

Everyone seems to jaded by the politics and what we have gone through over the years, that we have lost the ability to see.

Obama is beyond these politics and sees the big picture. Yes he must placate the politicians while they scurry about playing their political games.

But in the end Obama stands with us, with all Americans.

We owe him our support during this critical period. It's really the least we can do for him.

[grahamhgreen]

119. I hope your right - it would be nice if he restored The Great Writ of Habeus, & stopped rendition

[adamuu]

103. Gosh, I wish I could UNrecommend something. Oh wait, I can! n/t

[grahamhgreen]

114. Then how do we get him to do something for the progressive wing, suggestion?

[JeffR]

120. No, it isn't.

But please keep us posted, if you don't get a pizza delivery.