Retired FBI Agent Tells Militias Feds Have Set Up 30,000 Guillotines

[RamboLiberal]

In Pensacola, Fla., retired FBI agent Ted Gunderson tells a gathering of antigovernment "Patriots" that the federal government has set up 1,000 internment camps across the country and is storing 30,000 guillotines and a half-million caskets in Atlanta. They're there for the day the government finally declares martial law and moves in to round up or kill American dissenters, he says. "They're going to keep track of all of us, folks," Gunderson warns.

Outside Atlanta, a so-called "American Grand Jury" issues an "indictment" of Barack Obama for fraud and treason because, the panel concludes, he wasn't born in the United States and is illegally occupying the office of president. Other sham "grand juries" around the country follow suit.

And on the site in Lexington, Mass., where the opening shots of the Revolutionary War were fired in 1775, members of Oath Keepers, a newly formed group of law enforcement officers, military men and veterans, "muster" on April 19 to reaffirm their pledge to defend the U.S. Constitution. "We're in perilous times … perhaps far more perilous than in 1775," says the man administering the oath. April 19 is the anniversary not only of the battle of Lexington Green, but also of the 1993 conflagration at the Branch Davidian compound in Waco, Texas, and the lethal bombing two years later of the Oklahoma City federal building — seminal events in the lore of the extreme right, in particular the antigovernment Patriot movement.

Almost 10 years after it seemed to disappear from American life, there are unmistakable signs of a revival of what in the 1990s was commonly called the militia movement. From Idaho to New Jersey and Michigan to Florida, men in khaki and camouflage are back in the woods, gathering to practice the paramilitary skills they believe will be needed to fend off the socialistic troops of the "New World Order."

http://www.splcenter.org/news/item.jsp?pid=415

Scary!

Here's the Oath Keepers Site - some of the members have videos there of them telling why they joined & taking their oath. http://oath-keepers.blogspot.com/2009/03/oath-keepers-declaration-of-orders-we.html

[MichiganVote]

1. Is there no end to the nutjobs and do we have to house all of them?

[The Backlash Cometh]

36. No, there isn't an end to it.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

2. Guillotines?

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[JBoy]

13. Liberals get their political ideas, fashion and execution technology from France

[Hansel]

32. Freedom choppers! Not to be confused with the freedom fries electric chairs.

Wow, are they people gullible.

Wonder if it's entered their minds that if this had any chance of being true that Bush would have had to orchestrate it.

[winyanstaz]

58. Are you saying it is Liberals that are doing this?

JBoy, it is not Liberals that ordered the coffins etc..it was the Right wing New World Order dudes and they are NOT Liberals..sheesh.

[Monk06]

20. And while they await Madame Guillotine we will torture them with fois gras and truffles

[Robb]

21. And perhaps taunt them a second time. nt

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

23. Mais oui. Their mothers were hamsters and their fathers smelt of elderberries.

[varelse]

29. ...

:spray:

[Mariana]

28. Some of the more loony Christians believe

that shortly before Jesus comes back, everyone who refuses to worship the antichrist and take the mark of the beast will be killed via beheading with guillotines. This guy knows his crowd.

[Ikonoklast]

51. Yeah, we all know that guillotines are mentioned in the Bible.

:crazy:


They are so gullible. They don't believe Hawaii is a state, but they believe utter nonsense like this.


No wonder Vince gets rich selling SlapChops.

[mitchum]

49. Well, they are nice and efficient...

I guess even rightwing nutjobs/conmen concede that liberals are far more efficient

[Tangerine LaBamba]

53. Gawd!

Guillotines are, like, SO retro................

[XemaSab]

60. I bet they're cheap, made in China guillotines

You can't get a good American guillotine anymore. :(

[Old and In the Way]

3. How stupid do you have to be to believe this?

Pretty damn stupid.

[KittyWampus]

45. except believes like this have cropped up on DU since I first got here quite a while ago

[TheKentuckian]

4. The "Oath Keepers" deal is of great concern

They have some jackboot cops and soldiers going off the reservation.

Cops are very wingish folks, be watchful.

[RamboLiberal]

7. They have 10 Items they pledge not to do

But I bet they only apply to white people. I have a funny feeling they don't object when it comes to people of color.

http://oath-keepers.blogspot.com/2009/03/oath-keepers-declaration-of-orders-we.html

[madeline_con]

44. All the deep seated RW fears are addressed in that list.

:spray:

[RamboLiberal]

11. Read this part

That same pugnacious attitude was on display after conservatives attacked an April report from the U.S. Department of Homeland Security (DHS) that suggested a resurgence of radical right-wing activity was under way. "We will not fear our government; they will fear us," one man, who appeared to be on active duty in the Army, said in an angry video sent to the Oath Keepers blog. In another video at the site, a man who said he was a former Army paratrooper in Afghanistan and Iraq described President Obama as "an enemy of the state," adding, "I would rather die than be a slave to my government." The Oath Keepers site soon began hawking T-shirts with slogans like "I'm a Right Wing Extremist and Damn Proud of It!"

In April, Oath Keepers founder Stewart Rhodes — a Yale Law School graduate and former aide to U.S. Rep. Ron Paul (a Texas Republican and hard-line libertarian) — worried about a coming dictatorship. "We know that if the day should come where a full-blown dictatorship would come, or tyranny … it can only happen if those men, our brothers in arms, go along and comply with unconstitutional, unlawful orders," Rhodes told conspiracy-minded radio host Alex Jones. "Imagine if we focus on the police and military. Game over for the New World Order."

He's not the first to think so. In the 1990s, retired Phoenix cop and conspiracy enthusiast Jack McLamb created an outfit called Police Against the New World Order and produced a 75-page document entitled Operation Vampire Killer 2000: American Police Action Plan for Stopping World Government Rule.

It's not known how large Oath Keepers is. But there is some evidence beyond the group's mere existence to suggest that today's Patriots are again making inroads into law enforcement — the leak of the DHS report, along with those of a couple of similar law enforcement reports, was likely the work of a sworn officer. Rhodes claims to know a federal officer leaked the DHS report, and says Oath Keepers is "hearing from more and more federal officers all the time."

The group does seem to be on the radar of federal law enforcement officers. In May, a member complained on the group's website of a visit to his farm by FBI agents who asked him, he said, about training he provides in firearms, survival skills and the like.

-----

The sounds of violence are growing louder. The Idaho Citizens Constitutional Militia recently posted an opening for a "field sniper."

http://www.splcenter.org/news/item.jsp?pid=415

And what the hell is with the Ron Paul whack jobs?

[asdjrocky]

5. Cops.

Don't ya just love 'em?

[booley]

6. Guillotines?

We don't even use Guillotines on people the US actually does execute. Even if Obama was literally Hitler, no one would Guillotines for a genocide. (far too inefficient) And where would they even get guillotines?

I would say that if you're gonna lie, then at least try to make it believable.

However it occurs to me that it's been proven these guys will believe anything as long as it feeds their world view.

[aquart]

8. Oh, we hardly need thirty thousand guillotines.

Probably a no-bid contract, too.

[DeepBlueC]

10. FTW

:rofl:

[jasi2006]

9. This is why I don't trust 95% of the FBI and 99% of the CIA

If you lived through the Kennedy era you will know what I mean. There is a renegade subculture in both organizaitons as well as NSA and they hate Obama a much as those idiots howling at the townhall meetings.

[Swamp Rat]

12. He forgot Zyklon B gas chambers, Greco-Roman crucifiction, and good ol' fashioned stoning

[RamboLiberal]

14. SPLC paper talks about Beck and Dobbs

The original movement also had its mainstream backers, but they were largely confined to talk radio; today, Beck is just one of the well-known cable TV news personalities to air fictitious conspiracies and other unlikely Patriot ideas. CNN's Lou Dobbs has treated the so-called Aztlan conspiracy as a bona fide concern and questioned the validity of Obama's birth certificate despite his own network's definitive debunking of that claim. On MSNBC, commentator Pat Buchanan suggested recently that white Americans are now suffering "exactly what was done to black folks." On FOX News, regular contributor Dick Morris said, "Those crazies in Montana who say, 'We're going to kill ATF agents because the U.N.'s going to take over' — well, they're beginning to have a case."

http://www.splcenter.org/news/item.jsp?pid=415

I'm glad the MSNBC evening shows have featured a spokesperson from SPLC - but it's past time the get that racist Buchanan off the air!

[barbtries]

15. insanity

has gripped the nation.

[RamboLiberal]

16. Minutemen talking of armed insurrection

-----

Forde's half-brother, Merill Metzger, told the Arizona Daily Star that shortly before the murders Forde started talking about forming an "underground militia" that would be funded by robbing drug dealers. "She was talking about starting a revolution against the United States government," he said.

Following her arrest, Forde was denounced by key Minuteman leaders including Jeff Schwilk, head of the San Diego Minutemen, a hard-line group with a well-deserved reputation for confrontational tactics. The fact that a hothead like Schwilk has become a de facto spokesman for the Minuteman movement indicates how radicalized the movement has become since its early days of media-friendly publicity stunts involving retirees sitting in lawn chairs armed only with binoculars.

In a mid-April mass E-mail to followers, Schwilk linked his group's resistance to "the invasion from Mexico" with the greater cause of thwarting the "socialist takeover" of America. In the same E-mail, Schwilk announced the formation of the Patriot Coalition, made up of 23 organizations including Minuteman factions, tax-protest groups, pro-gun rights groups and two anti-immigration outfits listed as hate groups by the Southern Poverty Law Center. A subsequent press release described the common cause of the groups under the motto, "Secure Borders, Constitution and Rule of Law." It stated that "Patriotic and Constitutional American grassroots groups" had come together to "fight the growing threats to our region and to the taxpaying American citizens."

It used to be that Minutemen declared their vigilance against foreign invaders. Now they're taking a stand against perceived enemies both foreign and domestic. "Revolution is brewing!" Schwilk declared.

http://www.splcenter.org/news/item.jsp?pid=416

[Poll_Blind]

17. How come nobody ever alleges the govt. is setting up free beer gardens?

Oh. Well, still...

PB

[Poll_Blind]

18. Rape rooms! Rape rooms! Rape rooooooooooooooooms! n/t

PB

[IDemo]

19. Guillotines? Let them eat Cheetos!

[eShirl]

22. mentally ill

they are mentally ill

[Veruca Salt]

24. ...

:rofl: This just made my night! I'm now going to go around spouting this off as the new liberal conspiracy!

[tj2001]

25. Feds are also seeking 30,000 ISO-certified guillotineurs

to operate the 30,000 guillotines. 30,000 ISO-certified assistant guillotineurs are also needed ASAP.

[ContinentalOp]

26. This is part of the stimulus right?

Makes sense to me.

[tj2001]

27. Calling entrepreneurs: Opportunity to make money. The guillotines will produce A LOT of blood.

The French had to move them around from place to place because there was so much blood in the streets, and it was hard for people to walk... Not to mention the stench.

[704wipes]

33. well it would be 30,000 jobs we don't have now

nt

[jberryhill]

35. They'll probably hire H1-B's /nt

[Mopar151]

41. Where do I send a resume?

If it's for Homemade Insecurity, I could get a year's work, train up a bunch of assistants, send all the guillotines back as defective, never spill a drop of blood.

[RamboLiberal]

50. Sorry, but they are already here

Imported from China, stored in Montana and Georgia. As near as I can figure from Googling 30,000 Guillotines it may have been Bush 43 that brought them in, or maybe it was that evil Bill Clinton.

Wait a minute....Obama was in Montana Friday......h'mmmmmm, checking on those headchoppers???????

[tj2001]

52. He was looking for specimens to be used

for testing in the routine maintenance. Teevee footage shows Obama scanned the audience for neck widths.

[Heidi]

57. !

:rofl:

[UTUSN]

30. Hades!1 ---------- *I*'ll -------KICK this!1 n/t

[Canuckistanian]

31. And 45,000 horses for drawing and quartering

Oh, silly me. I forgot about the gibbets. Lots and lots of gibbets.

[annabanana]

34. It seems that there's maybe 3 people up in Lexington Mass

(my home town.. and not a RW bastion by any stretch of the imagination) talking to each other.

I'm calling BS on this particular "threat"

[libertypirate]

37. I wonder about people who keep their tin foil radio always tuned to the

same channel.

[Kievan Rus]

38. Ow! The stupid from the wingnuts! It burns!

Why the hell would the Feds have guillotines? Is this the French Revolution, or what?

Ah! The stupid! It burns!

[TexasObserver]

39. Former Agent, or Agent Provocateur?

Among the most out front of any such fringe group there are sometimes government agents, often near the top.

This guy doesn't pass the smell test, IMO.

[B3Nut]

43. Sounds like a typical RW bullshit artist

You can hear these guys on shortwave...usually on one of WWCR's frequencies along with several flavors of fringe Christianity, every branch of whom considers all the rest heretics, all on the same station. :spray: I sometimes bump into them while cruising the bands...they're hilariously terrifying. Scary as hell, yet you can't help but laugh at what utter useless idiots they are.

These guys claim all kinds of former "intelligence" positions (the de facto king of all militia crackpots, Mark Koernke, is infamous for making this claim. It's bullshit, but the cuckoos eat it up) but personally I think they're full of it. They have a gullible, fear-soaked audience who will happily cough up cash for speaking fees, tapes, CD's, books, etc.

But guillotines? And the wingers actually believe this shit? :rofl:

Wow. Just....wow.

[starroute]

40. Ted Gunderson? That's a name with a lot of creepy connections

Gunderson is somebody who spent a lot of years chasing allegations of ritual Satanic abuse -- but that's the least of it. Here's a bit from one of the "Gannongate" threads here in 2005:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3238821

slaveplanet
Tue Mar-08-05 02:09 PM
Response to Original message
41. I have since given pause

to the tenuous Gosch connection as soon as known disinfo artists Ted Gunderson/Tim White put out their release the other day....I believe MSM will use that angle as a way to discredit the whole ordeal.

That doesn't mean there's no connection , but there's enough elsewhere to focus on...


CoffeeCat
Tue Mar-08-05 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #41
59. Why is Ted Gunderson not credible?

Wasn't Gunderson one of the principal investigators in the Johnny Gosch case? Didn't he work with Noreen Gosch?

Why is TG not credible?


kk897
Tue Mar-08-05 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #59
77. Sorry about Ted Gunderson...

He's at least somewhat connected with these extremist right wingers. Which, as I've stated before, doesn't mean that everything coming out of his mouth is BS--just that you need to be on the lookout for subtext and agenda.

Here he is, shown to be in a speaking engagement with people who are founders of the AMA (see the Southern Poverty Law Center warning about this "organization", which I posted below this, I think).

http://www.freeenterprisesociety.com

Steve Hempfling is AMA and also owns the website.

Gunderson also has some sort of connection with the whole intricate PROMIS saga. He shows up, for example, in this Michael Ruppert article:

http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/pandora/052401_promis.html

Gunderson, a retired FBI Special Agent in Charge (SAC) from Los Angeles, and Nichols, a mysterious Los Angeles man, exposed through court documents obtained by Seymour as being a career CIA operative, connected with scientist/programmer, Riconosciuto in a sinister, yet now very well documented phase of Promis' development. In affidavits Riconosciuto claimed that one of the tasks he performed at the Cabazon reservation was to install a back door in the version of Promis that was sold to Canada. In August of this year the RCMP investigators told both Seymour and me that they had traveled to the reservation several times and had confirmed many details of Seymour's research. They had also interviewed Riconosciuto on more than one occasion. As with everyone else I have ever met who has spoken with him, both the Mounties and Seymour kept a reserved distance from him and always "counted their fingers after every hand shake."

MinstrelBoy also looked into Gunderson over at Rigorous Intuition:

http://rigorousintuition.blogspot.com/2005/04/if-you-want-somebody-you-can-trust.html

"Trust Yourself" is the best advice when wading into America's deep, weird end. Especially since, whenever we get over our heads in the bizarre black ops swamp of protected ritual abuse, it seems there's no avoiding Ted Gunderson. But is there any trusting him?

I don't know what to think about Gunderson. Or maybe I do, but I don't want to think it out loud. It would nice to assume the best intentions of everyone who takes up the cause of exposing these crimes. But because of the nature of the crimes, the names of the criminals, and simple human nature, I think it's prudent to assume several circles of disinformation before we reach something like the truth. And that makes me wonder, where do we find Gunderson?

One place we find him is in The Last Circle by "Carol Marshall" (real name Cheri Seymour): a samizdat sequel of sorts to the work which cost Danny Casolaro his life. "Unknown to me at the time," she writes, "I had taken a quantum leap in the direction of the Octopus when I contacted Ted Gunderson."

It isn't at all clear to me where the ritual abuse/PROMIS/Octopus Ted Gunderson fits in with the revival of the militia movement. But it sure sets my Spidey Sense tingling.

[boppers]

42. Oh, a PROMIS link?

That always brings out the serious nut jobs, especially the ones who don't actually know anythhing about programming.

[troubledamerican]

61. cointelpro

[boppers]

62. Not sure what you meant by that.

Might as well give a bit of background, anyways.

PROMIS ties data together. Initially, it was a somewhat failed software project, in that it groups massive amounts of data sources together, and the hopes were that federal prosecutors could link up the extremely different, and bizarrely unrelated, local computer systems that they were each using, into something cohesive. It started out simple, but each new data source, and data type, and information system just added to the complexity. It eventually became this huge freaking behemoth of code, over-built, over-engineered, over-budget, just so a prosecutor in one region could get a court schedule in a spreadsheet in one district aligned with a mainframe in another district, to figure out a good court date.

Somebody in the intel community looked at it with different eyes.

(cue spooky music)

A system that can tie together email, word documents, mainframe records, spreadsheets, log files, databases, etc.?

So, a person's email can be cross referenced with their credit card data, library records, grocery store history, phone records, school transcripts, website visits, web searches, traffic records, employment history, DMV records, IRS records, (etc. etc. etc.)?

Suddenly, the "failed" system that was massively over-engineered, to simply tie all kinds of data together, had ability, and utility, far beyond "prosecutors figuring out lawyers and court dates".

That's what freaked people out about PROMIS. It did a very good job of uniting data. Things have changed a bit since then, as this kind of programming is now expected (not revolutionary anymore), but people very much still fear this kind of information being aggregated and shared.

[kevinbgoode]

46. Cool. . .so we can freak them all out if we mock-up some guillotines

and take them to the town hall meeting demonstrations?

hehehehehehe

[RamboLiberal]

47. Google 30,000 Guillotines - these fools believe it

BTW, they are already here - in Montana & Georgia. Near as I can tell (I really don't want to visit some of these sites) they were brought here under Bush 43 though Clinton may be responsible. They were imported from China. Wait a minute, Obama was in Montana Friday.....h'mmm bet he and Gov Schweitzer took a little side trip to check out those headchoppers.

Here's one of the sites:

"And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years."-Revelation 20:4

A couple of years ago, some of you may recall that frequent the website that I made a statement on my old "current events" page that information had crossed my desk regarding the reality that thousands of guillotines were being stored on American soil. Not long after I posted that information. Someone who I thought was acting on my best interests, informed me that "conspiracy theories" such as this will lend to soil the message of my ministry, and I should remove the "ridiculous" claim about the guillotines immediately. After much thought (I will admit I didn't pray about it) I decided to go along with that person's suggestions and remove the information I had placed on that page.

Well... I am now kicking myself for doing just that!!

Not too long ago, I received word that the information I received regarding the guillotines was not only accurate, it was actually being lobbied in Washington DC to get them legalized for governmental use! The states I mentioned on my "current events" page a few years back was in fact GEORGIA & MONTANA as the recipients of these guillotines. The information I had received was that 15, 000 or 30,000 guillotines had been shipped to Georgia as well as Montana for safe keeping until such a time as they are needed. (I don't recall the exact number. It's been a while. However, I do believe it was 15,000 guillotines for each storage facility.)

If this is true, and if so, what are they up to?

http://www.remnantofgod.org/guillotines.htm

[LostInAnomie]

59. Seriously, if you were going to kill a bunch of people, why would you choose guillotines?

It's not they would be cheap to build, easy to hide, or easy to use. Can you even imagine how many people it would take to execute someone with a guillotine? Let alone 30,000 of them. It would literally take hundreds of thousands of people. Not just that, but hundreds of thousands of people willing to kill people in one of the goriest ways possible.

The basic logistics of this shit should be a dead give away.

[mitchum]

48. I remember that kook Gunderson from his "Operation Vampire" days of the 80s and 90s

The crazy keeps on going

[nini]

54. Obama did all that in 6 months?

and they say we can't move fast on things and get things done right :evilgrin:

[Blue_Tires]

55. well guillotines ARE the most environmental friendly...

lolz...I seriously have to call into question the integrity of the FBI if someone with such schizo political beliefs climbed so high up the ladder...

and for folks who actually lap this stuff up...i don't know what else to say other than gullibility is contagious...

[Morning Dew]

56. Paging Mme. Defarge - your seat on the death panel awaits.

[Pavulon]

63. Crack head

wildinil will do the same thing with a teeny tiny dose (fentanyl times 1000). These people are an insult to any person with a brain.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

64. Too many "shaken not stirred" martinis during his FBI days.

[POAS]

65. There's that date again...April 19th

1971 Manson sentenced to death
1993 Waco siege ends
1995 Oklahoma City bombing
1999 Bundestag returns to Berlin
2005 Ratzinger elected Pope