Suspected white supremacist charged in vandalism of synagogues

[NNN0LHI]

http://www.dailypress.com/news/dp-now-synagogue-vandlism.a10,0,157709.story

BY MIKE HOLTZCLAW
757-928-6479

12:21 p.m. EDT, August 10, 2009

NORFOLK - Detectives say the man arrested and charged with vandalizing synagogues in Norfolk is a member of a white supremacist group.

John Edward Grogan, a 29-year-old Waynesboro resident, has been arrested and charged with vandalizing several local synagogues on April 17. He was identified as one of the suspects after police released surveillance video to news media, which led to tips on the Crime Line. Grogan is charged with two counts of injuries to church with the intent to instill fear or intimidation, as well as conspiracy charges.

Karen Parker-Chesson, spokeswoman for Norfolk police, said Grogan is affiliated with Volksfront, one of the nation's most prominent white supremacist groups.

[MineralMan]

1. I hope he gets a long sentence if found guilty.

Odds are, though, that he'll get something like probation. Then, he'll go right on with his hateful conduct. Feh!

[imdjh]

4. Doubtful. He put some stickers on the building.

[NNN0LHI]

5. What was depicted on the stickers?

[imdjh]

6. "anti-Semitic, anti-gay and racist messages."

http://www2.newsvirginian.com/wnv/news/local/article/wboro_man_charged_with_defacing_norfolk_places_of_worship/43852/

I would imagine that if the stickers had threats they would have mentioned it.

[breadandwine]

8. But his tattoos make him stick out like a sore thumb.

If he's done anything else, he might now get nailed for other crimes as well.

[breadandwine]

9. Kick.

...

[Blue_Tires]

2. ugh...

Waynesboro is quite a drive to Norfolk...He must be part of a local group...

[imdjh]

3. facial tattoos may not mean you are a criminal

but a lot of criminals seem to have them.

[breadandwine]

7. Let's go to the videotape...........

Somewhat more detailed article, plus see video --- the perps caught on video ---

http://hamptonroads.com/2009/08/va-man-charged-norfolk-synagogue-vandalism

Looks like there were at least two of them. Not clear if a car passing immediately after was their get away car. (In theory that could mean there may have been three of them, if someone else was doing the driving.)

Stickers put up by the creeps had symbols similar to Grogan's tattoos.

Out, damned spot, out I say...........


"O limed soul that struggling to be free art more engaged."

---Hamlet.


Authorities think the slurs might have been done to mark the birth of Adolf Hitler, who was born April 20, according to a police spokeswoman.

[Union Yes]

10. I'm almost positive that this meets the threshold for a hate crime.

[imdjh]

11. I doubt it, because it's vandalism. But that would be why I would oppose hate crimes laws.

It's not difficult for me to imagine wanting to go write some hateful stuff on a mormon, baptist, or catholic church. It's rather difficult for me to maintain that these two assholes have committed the crime of the century when I would actually love to see a gay mob take down an LDS church brick by brick.

[breadandwine]

12. The issue is not whether they commit the crime of the century.

The issue is whether they START the crime of the century. Anti-Semitism is like a lit match waiting to drop on tinder. Once it starts it sets the mold for others to follow and it spreads. You have to have zero tolerance.


"Hey. All I did was light one little match. Not MY fault it landed in a lake of gasoline..."

[imdjh]

13. What do you mean by "you have to have zero tolerance"?

Vandalism is a crime. Putting stickers on a building is vandalism. The law should be enforced fairly, nothing more, nothing less.

[breadandwine]

14. Well, for instance---

Supposes somebody writes his name on the wall of a subway because he's on an ego trip. That's vandalism.

Now suppose somebody else posts messages on a wall calling for the mass extermination of, oh, say, the Jewish people for instance.

No difference?

Don't forget that Hitler started out with only a tiny handful of followers.

[Boojatta]

15. Are you sure that it wasn't a fear crime rather than a hate crime?

He could be afraid of the Roman government. That he doesn't accept some traditional Jewish practices doesn't mean that he cannot be considered Jewish. However, if the Roman government refuses to accept him as a Jew, then he faces persecution for failing to observe pagan practices that only Jews are exempted from.

Now, you can understand that the Jewish rebellion against Roman colonial authorities changes the dynamics of the situation. It becomes essential to emphasize differences between people who adhere to traditional Judaism and people who follow the New Way. Although the New Way may involve not an attempt to abolish even one iota of the traditional law, but to fulfill that law, nevertheless, it's important to emphasize the differences.

Thus, what you call a hate crime may actually be a cry for help, a message sent to the Roman government to notify them that, in this time of Israelite rebellion against the Roman authorities in Israel, they must draw a clear line of division to distinguish him from the rebels, because the rebels happen to be followers of traditional Jewish rules.

Of course, that's not what the man himself would say. When your point of view consists of nothing but attitudes, you aren't in a position to understand the historical origin of those attitudes.

[breadandwine]

16. "origin of those attitudes"? So. We have to understand the deep inner feelings of mass murderers?

You talk of Rome. Try thinking a little more currently --- about Nazi Germany for instance.

[Boojatta]

18. I thought that the topic was an alleged vandal, not an alleged mass murderer.

As for understanding deep inner feelings, I already tried to make it clear that there's nothing very deep there. There are simply attitudes. The person who is attached to those attitudes likely doesn't know the historical origin of the attitudes.

[breadandwine]

20. No, the topic is NOT an alleged vandal. The topic is an alleged vandal of a synagogue.

Why sweep that under the rug?

Some of us know about Kristallnacht, the "Night of Broken Glass," when the Nazis vandalized synagogues and began the Holocaust.

[Indenturedebtor]

19. You yourself don't understand the historical origin of those attitudes

Christianity went on a 1900+ year rampage seeking to kill or convert everyone. There are a lot of other factors and historical nuances but that's pretty much it in a nutshell. Wanna be a non-Christian in a Christian country - you'd better hope that the economy is good and everyone has bread.

That's history. Oh and don't forget to add homosexuals and people with webbed toes and people of color, oh and people without penises.. let's hate on them too.

[Boojatta]

23. I don't see anything resembling a question there.

Were you hoping for a response? If you want to continue in that direction, then perhaps it would be best for you to start a new thread in one of these places:

One DU Group (not to be confused with either Big Forums or Topic Forums)

R/T forum at DU

Alternatively, there might be some other place that is neither of the above options, but more suitable than General Discussion.

[Indenturedebtor]

24. I wasn't posing a question

Simply responding to your assertion about the "reasons" behind this hateful bastard's actions.

My reading of your previous comments was that this guy was under the influence of some kind of "cultural memory" back to the Roman days where Jews briefly enjoyed a more favored status in the empire.

[breadandwine]

25. Under the Roman days Jews "enjoyed" the Roman destruction of the Temple of Solomon

whose western wall still stands to this day on the Temple Mount. Under the Roman days Jews "enjoyed" the Romans slaughtering thousands of Jews, drawing the plow over the Temple Mount to signify its destruction and the renaming of Israel as "Palestine" - land of the Philistines, which it wasn't. Jerusalem was renamed "Aelia Capitolina." Everything was done to try to deJudaized Israel and blot out its Jewish past. And the saintly Rabbi Akiva was wrapped in a parchment Torah scroll and burned alive, dying "al Kiddush Hashem" - i.e., a martyr's death.

Jews really enjoyed the Roman empire.

[breadandwine]

26. Delete - system dupe.

...

[orleans]

17. "Suspected white supremacist charged in vandalism of synagogues"

no big surprise there.

[Joanne98]

21. Here's their picture gallery.

I'm going to say it again. We need a BIG database.; If we had one we could cross-reference. I bet a lot of these people belong to other orgs too. Or know each other. We need a bigger database.

http://www.volksfrontinternational.com/gallery.html

How many of these people have been showing up at townhalls? How many of them are teabaggers too?

We need to be able to check that ourselves because the cops are sympathetic to conservatives. We can't count on them to do what necessary. Look at the way their treating Obama death threats.

If would be nice to be able to compare faces within different crowds.

[breadandwine]

22. That's pretty creepy.

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