MSNBC: Man with the gun outside the Obama town hall - Ron Paul supporter - was under surveillance

[sabra]

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2009/08/11/2026745.aspx

<snip>

*** UPDATE *** More on the man with the gun... William Kostric is a married man in his mid 30S who works in sales. He says he moved here to New Hampshire from Arizona about a year ago, because it's a "live free or die" state -- and he thought Arizona was becoming too restrictive with its gun laws.

He's passing out a bookmark that says, "Join the Second Amendment Revolution, the most exciting pro-liberty movement in over 200 years."

He's a Ron Paul supporter, who opposes just about everything Obama, including health care reform.

The local police say he is within his rights to carry a handgun openly under state law. He was carrying a 9-mm Smith and Wesson strapped to his lower leg.

Police say he's OK on a public sidewalk. Kostric says he has permission from a church just down the street from the high school to be on its private property.

He says he was approached by a "detective," possibly a Secret Service Agent, who told him he could be arrested within 1,000 feet of a school with a weapon under a federal law. Kostric moved back to private property.

When Obama arrived, the police had Kostric under surveillance. A local police captain said the Secret Service has been "in the loop."

Kostric has been about 50 to 75 yards from the entrance to the high school, since about 11:00 am ET, doing interviews and carrying a sign and his gun and police have had their eye on him. But as long as he's been "cooperative," they have watched, but let him be.

[kelly1mm]

1. Good! Way to go Secret Service! nt

[ihavenobias]

10. I agree. But you KNOW the right is going to jump all over this.

It's going to feed their Big Government/Obama is going to take your guns insanity. No way Limbaugh, Fox News and everyone else on the right won't pounce.

It only matters because it inflames the potentially dangerous nuts even more.

[kelly1mm]

18. I don't think it will have any traction. Nobody tried to take away his

weapon or arrest him. The Secret Service was doing their job and showed great restraint. It would have been foolish for them not to monitor the situation.

[BlooInBloo]

31. (shrug) That's nice. When the President's life is potentially at stake, fuck them.

[ihavenobias]

35. I agree actually.

(shrug).

;)

[atreides1]

2. Yet

While Bush was president local law enforcement made the rules up as they needed to.

[tsuki]

56. When Bush was running for re-election, they closed the highway at

quitting time so Bush could travel. Considering that we have one highway onto this barrier island, I thought that was a bit much.

Republicans are such whining cowards.

[csziggy]

3. Message in another thread: Guy with a gun is William Kostric of Manchester, N.H. - info on him

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6275402&mesg_id=6275621

[Raven]

4. Very good move on the part of the cops and the SS. If he had been

arrested or made to leave, he's be the poster child of the wing nuts by now.

[Hansel]

7. Which was exactly what they were hoping for.

Poor little disappointed paranoid souls.

[Xzanther]

8. There we go.

See, now that guys has my respect. As long as you abide by laws then I have no problem with whatever view you take on things..

[Dora]

15. He has your respect?

Why does this asshole have your respect just because he legally carried a gun to a crowded public event?

Assholes can follow the law too. Being legal doesn't make them any less of an asshole, or any more worthy of respect.

[Xzanther]

28. You're right

True. You make a good point :) I guess I was just trying to be nice.

[Solomon]

17. Did Gates have your respect?

Just wondering.

[Xzanther]

32. I was just saying

Ok, I spoke without thinking on this one.

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Maru Kitteh]

58. Poor impulse control.

The Freepers, they have it.

[madeline_con]

66. "you folks"? What folks do you mean?

[BlooInBloo]

71. Which word did you not understand?

[madeline_con]

72. It was "you folks" I was asking about.

Who are these "folks"?

[Xzanther]

73. If by folks you meant...

A Republican.. then no.... I simply was talking out my ass without fully reading the story.. it's what happens when you have a itchy send finger.

[kestrel91316]

34. He's advocating bloodshed with his sign. How can you respect that?

[madeline_con]

68. Thomas Jefferson's quote is not respectable? n/t

[Xzanther]

74. Before you flame me..

I didn't even read the story... I just thought it was about a guy with a gun.. didn't know anything else.. I was respecting the fact that at least he wasn't like the people inside... but from the added info.. no I rebuke my post.

[Shagbark Hickory]

5. Who says New England doesn't have rednecks?

[jpak]

13. He moved there from Arizona

n/t

[Robyn66]

30. I can tell you for sure

New Hampshire has a LOT of REDNECKS!!!

[AspenRose]

55. True

*nodding*

It was a shock to me the first time I visited there. But it's true.

[gratuitous]

6. Oh, well, as long as he's cooperative

Shit, make a ruckus in the library, and you get your ass tased. Carry a gun around a school with the president in town? No problem! Well, sure, there's a law about guns near a school, but come on! It's not like he's talking about armed insurrection, just a Second Amendment Revolution! And that's exciting to Mr. Kostric! So it's okay!

But little old you wants to turn your back on Bush at a commencement address? Off to the pokey!

[depakid]

16. The school law was struck down by the Supreme Court as exceeding commerce clause authority

[jmg257]

25. Didn't they re-instate it with different wording? Pretty sure it is still codified...

Title 18, United State Code, Section 922, paragraph (q) is the Gun Free School Zones Act.

[madeline_con]

69. What is a "Second Amendment Revolution"? n/t

[sinkingfeeling]

9. OK, call me stupid, but if it's against federal law to be within 1000 feet of a school with a weapon

how come he was allowed to have 'been about 50 to 75 yards from the entrance to the high school'?

[depakid]

22. The law's still on the books- and he can surely be arrested

just not convicted.

In fact, I think he SHOULD have been arrested rather than being rewarded with a pulpit by a world class media whore.

[GodlyDemocrat]

23. That law was stricken down by the Supreme Court

Any such arrest would have been unconstitutional.

[jmg257]

29. I think it was re-instated in '96? Has that version been overturned also? nt

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun-Free_School_Zones_Act_of_1990

"The Gun-Free School Zones Act of 1990 was enacted as section 1702 of the Crime Control Act of 1990 (Pub.L. 101-647, 18 U.S.C. § 922(q)) on November 29, 1990.

It was subsequently declared to be an unconstitutional exercise of Congressional authority under the Commerce Clause of the United States Constitution by the United States Supreme Court, and was therefore voided. This case, United States v. Lopez (1995), was the first time in over half a century that the Supreme Court limited Congressional authority to
...
Congress re-enacted the law in the GFSZ Act of 1996, following the Supreme Court's ruling, correcting the technical defects identified by the Court by adding wording placing the burden on the prosecutor to prove an additional element, that the "firearm has moved in or otherwise affects interstate commerce."

[GodlyDemocrat]

38. You may be right

[depakid]

53. Doesn't mean he couldn't have been arrested

Let him sue and see how far he gets.

[FatDave]

52. Arresting him would have just made him a martyr.

I'm reasonably sure he never left the crosshairs of a weapon wielded by a capable federal agent, so no harm done.

[madeline_con]

70. Thank you! It would definitely have made things worse.

The Secret Service used good judgement on this one.

[jtb33]

26. No one's ever been charged with that by itself... the reason?

Congress could only use the Commerce Clause to pass such a law, and it requires mental gymnastics to show how possessing a firearm within 1000 ft of a school affects interstate commerce. So much so, that the first time this law was passed, it was ruled unconstitutional and thrown out. Congress changed the wording a tad and passed it again. I don't think anyone has been charged with it since and if they were (like in this situation), and had it challenged in court, I bet that it would be ruled unconstitutional again. I think they'd rather have it "on the books" even if it is really unenforceable. I think that's why they haven't done anything.

[EmeraldCityGrl]

11. This guy is going to be on Hardball today.

Chris Mathews WTF!!

[Parker CA]

14. Well this should be interesting. Tweety will either make this guy a hero or call him out. I'm

betting on the former. I'd like to be wrong though.

[Dude_CalmDown]

21. Oh yeah. I guess you forgot all those Anti War protesters he'd pull in for an interview.

Tweety the asshat. How does he manage to constantly out asshat himself?

[Blue Diadem]

12. did you see rcrush's post. The guy was wearing an earpiece.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6274373&mesg_id=6276930

[aikoaiko]

19. Everyone's rights to safety and free speech were maintained -- excellent.

No need for the fear mongering that was a part of some of the other threads.

[Paladin]

57. Take Another Hard Look At That Guy.

His openly displayed pistol, the wording on his sign, his facial expression, the ear piece. Take another listen to his responses to Chris Matthews. This fool may be the new hero of the gun rights movement, but there is nothing "excellent" about somebody like that being anywhere near a Democratic president......

[aikoaiko]

59. That's the thing about liberty -- even kooks deserve it unless they break the law...

...which this guy didn't. Heck, even the SS didn't detain him -- that's how little a threat he posed.

I wish you and a lot of other people would to stop the fear mongering.

[Paladin]

62. That Guy Is A Poster Boy For The Gun Militancy Movement.

Armed for no other purpose than public intimidation, brandishing a sign with just enough words left out to keep it from being overtly terroristic (even the words of famous men can be used for despicable purposes), spewing far right-wing talking points on national TV---if you want to refer to my alarm over this individual being anywhere near a Democratic president as "fear mongering," be my guest; just shows how divorced you are from historical and present-day realities, and how utterly beguiled you are by the malignant gun rights movement in this country.....

[high density]

20. NH is the perfect place for a Ron Paul nut to move to

He has plenty of company.

[Kingofalldems]

24. A true gun hick if I ever saw one.

[Bonhomme Richard]

27. "the Secret Service has been "in the loop." I'll bet they were....

I wonder if he notice that little red laser dot on his chest.

[theothersnippywshrub]

37. It might have been on the back of his head. He never could have gotten the gun out of the holster.

[thereismore]

39. We may hope. nt

[Joe Chi Minh]

43. He wouldn't have been able to close his fingers round it!

[Fleet]

33. What bunch of loons....

And I'm talking about many of the posters in this thread, not Mr. Kostric.

The man obeyed the law and did not act violently.

In other words, he wasn't a problem.

[Missy Vixen]

41. Oh, so it's no problem to carry a gun to a town hall meeting at a school

where the President is speaking? We go through wanding and being patted down for professional sports events, but it's okay to pack heat when you're holding a sign advocating violence?

The gun nuts here will say ANYTHING to defend their fetish.

[Fleet]

44. I guess we should just suspend legal rights to make you feel safer.

Man does not break law, does not cause trouble...

While I agree that there seems to be a potential problem here what solution do you suggest? A 100-yard "no national or state-granted rights" bubble surrounding the POTUS everywhere he goes?

[Missy Vixen]

50. Oh, I see

You don't think that the Secret Service has enough trouble on their hands right now with the documented 30 death threats a day against Barack Obama? It's more important that you bring your precious gun to a setting in which it's inappropriate at the least? As the officer told the latest gun fetishist today, it's illegal to have a gun AT ALL within 100 feet of a school. Period.

Anyone carrying a gun to a community gathering is not bringing it for their own safety. Period.

[orwell]

54. Actually the bubble is larger than that.

If you knew anything about the Secret Service, they secure an area much larger than that anywhere or on any road the President travels. They go so far as to soldering manhole covers on Presidential parade routes. The Secret Service was there a minimum of 5 days before the trip securing the route, doing background checks on anyone who would be remotely in contact with the President. If he is any kind of an open air forum they will secure sight lines to the stage for more than a mile, to avoid the possibility of a long range sniper shot.

They consider it a National Security issue, which overrides state law.

The reason he was allowed to carry was that he was not on the Presidential parade route, nor in the hall. He would not be allowed to carry a gun into the hall where the President spoke or be armed on the parade route. It is too much for the Secret Service to control. Could you imagine the security nightmare if hundreds of people were legally carrying guns along a presidential parade route?

I know people who have worked for the Secret Service. They take their job very seriously. They are also very good at it.

[annabanana]

65. +1 . . . n/t

[kelly1mm]

48. Technically he did no carry the weapon to the TH

event. He has on private property (a church actually) on the road leading to the school. Not on the school property itself. He never attempted to go into the event or on the school grounds. He was trying to push his agenda and would have been happy if he was harassed by the police/secret service.

[theothersnippywshrub]

36. He probably wanted to be arrested in order to advance his real goal of motivating

another McVeigh, Roeder, Sodini or some other John Wilkes Booth wannabe.

The party of Lincoln has become the party of John Wilkes Booth.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

40. That guy has balls the size of...

[Joe Chi Minh]

42. Are you kidding? More like the size of the tiny round shapes.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

46. I don't give a shit what his political stance is...

To carry a firearm openly (in the current politcal climate) to a presidential function requires quite a bit of fortitude.
Not to mention taking into account his politcal affiliation and the sign he is carrying.

Dude's got some nuts... no way to get around it.

[EFerrari]

47. That's not bravery. That's sociopathy.

[Joe Chi Minh]

51. You've not been paying attention, have you? They've pussy-footed around

Republican thugs to a remarkable degree for a while now. Why would they suddenly act as heavy-handedly as another Administration would have? On all the evidence so far, as long as they "had a bead on him", that was all that was strictly necessary under the policy they've espoused. It's good that they've treated him as the retard he evidently is.

Also, you may have confused idiocy with courage. Courage is a virtue; recklessness, its antitype. Though in this case, they seemed to know what they were doing. Pity they were played for suckers by Obama's tactics.

[Tesha]

61. But clearly not all of his marbles. (NT)

[Paladin]

64. Have Your Meds Adjusted Or Get Laid More Often......

.....and stay the fuck out of my neighborhood......

[Joe Chi Minh]

75. I expect the authorities will do the compassionate thing: submit him to

psychiatric tests, and on the basis of the inevitable results, find him sheltered accommodation somewhere, and a social worker to keep an eye on him - to make sure he doesn't get lost on his way to the shops, that sort of thing. I think that x-ray is Sibel's, by the way.

Your signature line, incidentally, was expressed somewhat more succinctly by G K Chesterton:

"The purpose of an open mind is to close on the truth."

[B Calm]

49. The only thing this guy has is a case of dumb ass!

[Geek_Girl]

60. Is it Freeper night, what the hell?

All the Freeptards are out in force tonight on these Town hall gun nut threads.

[ddeclue]

63. Due respect.. If he wants to do that I want a dozen S.S. laser dots on his forehead

[and-justice-for-all]

67. Thank You Secret Service!!nt

[Blue_Tires]

76. ron paul? figures...

[tanyev]

77. I want to know what church gave him permission to be on their private property

with a gun strapped to his leg. Anyone know the town?

[LeftHander]

78. Now more and more nuts will carry....until you can't find the rotten nut...nt

[OnyxCollie]

79. Oops. responded to wrong post.

[OnyxCollie]

80. Good thing he only brought a gun to a school.

If he had brought a bag of pot, there would have been trouble.