In the United States, the people do not come first, corporations do.

[mmonk]

With the lobbying system, they get their way when interests conflict between what they want and the public interest. The prevailing successful promotion they use is that their interests ultimately are in the interests of the people. So if we want real reform, we need to adapt their strategy and show where our interests would be in the interests of business. That is where I suggest we divide them to achieve our goals and this can be done with HR 676 better than the current House Bill or the Senate joke which would increase costs more, especially in their promoted bugaboo, taxes and regulated burden. Thus we should approach business, and particularly small business that continues to be trampled in lieu of Wall Street fortune 500 companies. I suggest we use this brochure:

http://www.healthcare-now.org/wp-content/uploads/pdf/SmallBusiness.pdf

Comments or suggestions would be appreciated.

[ixion]

1. which is why everyone should incorporate...

become a sub-chapter S or LLP, then all band together and form a lobbying org. Beat them at their own game. That's the way to do it. :evilgrin:

[mmonk]

2. Since I have been involved in business most of my working life,

I noticed small business organizations were coopted by Chamber of Commerce political interests which almost always automatically backed the Republican party since at least the 70's. We need to change that.

[ixion]

3. myself as well...

both parents were small business owners, and I have mine now.

I agree with you. It needs to change. :applause:

[Stevenmarc]

4. Whenever the US Chamber of Commerce reps would come to my business

my receptionist had instructions to send them right back to my office so I could have the personal pleasure of throwing them out.

[mmonk]

8. LOL. Our family business went along the same approach in dealing

with them. The only difference was they didn't even make to my office or others.

[wolfgangmo]

46. I do not belong to my local chamber of commerce

When they ask me why I tell them that they are supporting policy that is both unsustainable for the long term growth of our community and for the economic health of local businesses. Most of the members either work for banks, real estate companies, or developers. I think you can see where this is headed.

Perhaps we need a new organization or we need to take the old ones back... Hmmmm. Take them back. It could work.

[KoKo]

49. Dupe..sorry.

[KoKo]

50. Yes...and if you moved South in the last 20 years...you had to go to "Prayer Breakfasts"

to fit in in business and be accepted and the Chamber of Commerce and the other "Powers that BE." Yep...done the whole route. "Old Boys Network" ...all of it.

If you go alone...you do it at your peril. But, you can do it...and sacrifice much.

[valerief]

58. Prayer Breakfasts in the am, lap dances in the pm. nt

[unblock]

6. it's not the structure, it's the money.

they won't listen to us just because we incorporate. they're interested in big bucks for campaign contributions and they're interested in big bucks for their own personal retirement. i.e., bribes. what lobbyists do is find out where the sponsor should place his bribe -- which campaign to support in exchange for loopholes to be passed. they want you to support the campaign of a friend (who is doing the same for them) rather than their own capaign directly so it's harder to trace it back as a bribe, even though it's all pretty much out in the open.

one giant mutual bribe-fest. i wonder if they even have time to actually discuss issues. if they do, it's probably just as a matter of idle musing. substance is so irrelevant to the actual workings of congress these days....

[mmonk]

15. Bribe-fest is right.

I just wish the general public would inform themselves instead of being taken in by talking points that are not totally honest in nature.

[kimmerspixelated]

23. Best idea ever!!!!

Simple and effective!

[mmonk]

51. Thanks.

If we can't beat them, get as many on our side as possible.

[kayakjohnny]

32. Nice!

n/t

[midnight]

61. That is crazy enough to work... What should it be called?

The I want health care too corporation.

[Odin2005]

5. We need to get lobbyist money out of government.

Bribery is NOT Free Speech.

[mmonk]

7. I agree with you but we are trapped in the current system.

We need powerful allies that have lobbyists. HR 676 simply is better for business and the general public. We need them to see this is a no brainer.

[harun]

12. I took a Gov't and Politics class in 1993 while in College and we

discussed as the biggest problem facing gov't being how to handle all the special interest lobbying that may be going against the will of the majority of the electorate. Hasn't changed one bit since then. Problem is actually even worse now. In my opinions both parties have stopped even trying to work against that system and have simply embraced it. Embraced it as a way to keep their campaign dollars rolling in.

[mmonk]

13. Campaign dollars are the milk of today's politics. Thus, the overall

public interest is blunted. That is why we need business on our side in this fight. Unfortunately, an MBA is not a measure of critical thought.

[Enthusiast]

33. Yup. Bribery is exactly what it is.

This must be changed. Now we can see why the GOP was so adamantly opposed to McCain - Feingold.

[KG]

9. In the United States, corporations are people.

thanks to the USSC.

[mmonk]

10. Unfortunately, you are correct. A piece of paper is on the same level

as breathing living human beings as citizens. I'm pretty sure none of the founding fathers looked at it that way when they were crafting the constitution with all the checks and balances they put into place.

[Enthusiast]

34. Good point. nt

"I'm pretty sure none of the founding fathers looked at it that way when they were crafting the constitution with all the checks and balances they put into place."

[harun]

11. Corporate Representative Republic

[mmonk]

14. For those of you that are against HR 676 in lieu of the House Bill

currently debated, I'd rather you not unrecommend this thread without stating your reasons. The one thing I do not like about the unrecommend feature is when it gives power to cowards. I'd rather hear and/or discuss or debate your position. The premise is the same no matter which Bill you favor.

[Chisox08]

16. The people will never represented as longs as there is privately funded campaigns

We do not have the money to compete with the cooperations. I for one believe that cooperations should be stripped of there person status and not be allowed to lobby congress or to donate money for political campaigns.

[mullard12ax7]

17. Greedy people who work for corporations disagree

They've got theirs and it's too bad for anyone else. They feel superior, like winners because they've succeeded where you and I supposedly couldn't. They also know that most people rely on products that corporations produce, like 401ks. They vote too, in large numbers. I have suggested over and over again that the only way to change it is to 1: arrest the people at the top who ran and still run our entire culture of corruption and 2: regulate and enforce the regulations in healthcare, insurance, investments, real estate and government.

Only a few listen and even fewer agree.

[pleah]

18. K&R

[theFrankFactor]

19. THIS is the war Americans should be fighting.

[L0oniX]

28. The war on social terrorists ...bring it on!

[Enthusiast]

36. +1, you have named it well. nt

[Enthusiast]

35. And you are exactly correct

This war is much more important to our future than any contrived war in Iraq or Afghanistan.

[Eyerish]

20. K&R n/t

[paparush]

21. Sinclair Lewis, among others (Thomas Jefferson) predicted this. nt

[troubledamerican]

62. Abraham Lincoln quote: 1863

"I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country; corporations have been enthroned, an era of corruption in High Places will follow, and the Money Power of the Country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the People, until the wealth is aggregated in a few hands, and the Republic is destroyed. I feel at this moment more anxiety for the safety of my country than ever before, even in the midst of war"

[VPStoltz]

22. Because corporations are considered persons.

That is why they are able to get away with so much crap.

[Sparky 1]

24. We need an amendment...

... to the Constitution defining a "person" as a living, breathing human being. That would change this country dynamically for the better. It would allow us to get real campaign finance reform without the First Amendment getting in the way if corporations were not persons.

The question is how do we get that amendment?

[mmonk]

25. With the lobby system in place, I don't know how.

[Selatius]

44. It probably would've been possible 150 years ago or further back.

It is highly unlikely such an amendment could pass given the amount of leverage lobbyists have in Congress.

[Enthusiast]

37. I'm all for it, Sparky! nt

[PainPerdu]

40. Start with the Reclaim Democracy website

Reclaim Democracy! Revoke Corporate Corruption of American DemocracyReclaimDemocracy.org is committed to revoking corporate power and reviving grassroots democracy.
www.reclaimdemocracy.org/ - Cached - Similar

Corporate Personhood
Send us your comments or questions
Primers Presentations
Corporate Accountability
About Us
Politics and Electoral
More results from reclaimdemocracy.org »

[Sparky 1]

53. Thanks!! I hope everyone will book mark and support that.

[CrispyQ]

54. By educating people you know about corporate person hood.

I have friends that didn't have a clue what corporate person hood was until I told them. I didn't know what it was until I read a letter to the editor about the subject. I don't recall it being taught in 5th grade civics class.

Here's a good start:

http://reclaimdemocracy.org/personhood/

And regarding the amendment, here's another page from the same site:

Proposed Constitutional Amendments
to revoke corporate constitutional "rights," reverse Buckley v. Valeo, and establish a right to vote

http://reclaimdemocracy.org/political_reform/proposed_constitutional_amendments.html

snip...

An Amendment to Preclude Corporations from Claiming Bill of Rights Protections
SECTION 1. The U.S. Constitution protects only the rights of living human beings.

SECTION 2. Corporations and other institutions granted the privilege to exist shall be subordinate to any and all laws enacted by citizens and their elected governments.

SECTION 3. Corporations and other for-profit institutions are prohibited from attempting to influence the outcome of elections, legislation or government policy through the use of aggregate resources or by rewarding or repaying employees or directors to exert such influence.

SECTION 4. Congress shall have power to implement this article by appropriate legislation.

more at link: http://reclaimdemocracy.org/political_reform/proposed_constitutional_amendments.html

[Sparky 1]

55. Wxcellent! I'm surprised there are people who don't know, though.

Thanks for writing that here. Super web site. I'm glad you're educating others. I'll pass that web site on too.

[onehandle]

26. Corporations and guns have more rights than people.

And yet neither ever pull jury duty.

WTF!

[mmonk]

27. I have to remember that line.

[PainPerdu]

41. Old Italian Proverb

You can steal more with a briecase than with a gun.

[indimuse]

29. knr! n/t

[lexanman]

30. K and R

which is why corporate law as well as labor law needs drastic overhaul, along with lobbying also. In Europe the first responsibility corporations have is to the community to which they serve, meaning their employees and customers, not profits.

[Enthusiast]

38. What a novel idea!

"In Europe the first responsibility corporations have is to the community to which they serve, meaning their employees and customers, not profits."

[lexanman]

45. thank you

'bowing'

[Individualist]

31. Government of, by and for the corporations

has been in effect since Reagan took the oath of office.

[Enthusiast]

39. Yes, contrary to what the GOP says

he was a dirty fucking traitor and as bad a president as George W Asshole.

[PainPerdu]

42. Amen

I'll STRONGLY second that emotion!!!

After all,he was a Democrat and president of screen actors guikd for years-before he turned Republican.

And you NEVER hear of his part in Iran Contra or the fact that he named Rumsfeld as envoy to befriend Saddam Hussein-facilitating the Hussein government with infusions of cash and aid to Iraq-all the while Hussein was gassing the Kurds.

[wolfgangmo]

47. Let's not forget that...

... St. Ron of Raygun spied on and turned in members of the screen actors guild to the McCarthyites and that he was involved in keeping the Iran hostages held in Iran until AFTER the election so it would seem that he got them out. And while I'm killing BS historical revisions, the last military head of the USSR is on record crediting Raygun with hastening the USSR's demise, but only by 1 week. He said it was falling for decades. Raygun had NOTHING to do with the Berlin Wall. "Mr. Gorby," my ass. Snort.

[Enthusiast]

48. But like the rest

of their creative exercises in history what the last military head of USSR said can be conveniently ignored.

[Sparky 1]

52. There are grandmothers present

[RagAss]

43. The Epiphany !

[Celtic Merlin]

56. I've been saying this for FIVE DAMN YEARS now...

Public financing of federal-office campaigns MUST happen - and soon.

Once the corporate money is banned from the political process, WHO will these congresscritters listen to then? Only to the people who vote, because Corporate America won't be able to buy these assholes off with truckloads of campaign cash.

Public Campaign Finance, people! All campaigns financed with tax dollars only, same amount to each candidate, no commercials, advertising, or even pamphlets paid for with corporate cash. At that point, we get our country back.

Think about it.

Celtic Merlin
Carlinist

[mmonk]

64. It's a nice dream but they vote in their own interests.

That's why it won't happen. They will leave a loophole.

[Deja Q]

57. Corporate personhood. Let's all become corporations; our own little LLCs?

:shrug:

[mmonk]

59. But will we have enough money to pay lobbyists so as to buy

the politicians? We need to go public with our stock.

[femrap]

60. Anyone or anything with lots of

$$$$$$$$$ comes first in the US of A. I hope they choke on their green paper.

[Overseas]

63. Looks like a great brochure. K&R. /nt