Gates caller didn’t cite race, police say

[EFerrari]

Gates caller didn’t cite race, police say
Woman laments media accounts
By John R. Ellement and Matt Collette
Globe Staff | Globe Correspondent / July 27, 2009

The woman whose report of a possible house break-in led to the arrest of Harvard professor Henry Louis Gates Jr. said she never mentioned race during her 911 call and is “personally devastated’’ by media accounts that suggest she placed the call because the men she observed on the porch were black, according to a lawyer acting as her spokeswoman.


The woman, identified in a police report on file in Cambridge District Court as 40-year-old Lucia Whalen, saw the backs of both men and did not know their race when she called 911, said Wendy J. Murphy, a Boston lawyer from New England School of Law. Whalen phoned police, Murphy said, because she was aware of recent break-ins in the area.

In an interview last night, Cambridge Police Commissioner Robert C. Haas said it was accurate that Whalen did not mention race in her 911 call. He acknowledged that a police report of the incident did include a race reference. The report says Whalen observed “what appeared to be two black males with backpacks on the front porch’’ of a Ware Street home on July 16.

That reference is there, said Haas, because the police report is a summary. Its descriptions - like the race of the two men - were collected during the inquiry, not necessarily from the initial 911 call, he said.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2009/07/27/gates_caller_didnt_cite_race_police_say/

[babylonsister]

1. So she cited backpacks? Ha! Let me guess; she wants a book deal? nt

[Skittles]

2. maybe she's just pissed at being painted as racist for no reason

[merh]

4. Then she knows how Gates feels

[babylonsister]

7. So true!

:thumbsup:

[LisaL]

8. Exactly.

Just on DU alone, how many posters have claimed she engaged in "racial profiling," or wouldn't have called if the men were white?

[EFerrari]

14. Maybe the fact that Crowley put it into the police report threw people.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2009/0723092gates1.html

[LisaL]

15. His report is consistent.

He responded to a break in, didn't know the races of possible people who broke in. Then he talked to the lady who called it in, in which time she described what appeared to be black males possibly breaking into the house.
What exactly isn't clear about it?

[EFerrari]

20. Her lawyer says she did not report two black men.

He says she was obviously unsure about their races and said one of them might have been Hispanic.

From the article:

“People are making their own judgments about the case and assuming that she called police because they were black,’’ Murphy said yesterday in a telephone interview. “That sentiment is permeating the stories, and it ties directly to her involvement, even though the truth is she didn’t report seeing black men and she didn’t know the men’s race when she called 911.’’

In an interview at police headquarters last night, Haas said “it was very clear that she wasn’t sure’’ what the men’s race was. He also said that when the dispatcher questioned Whalen for more details, she told police she could only guess about the race of the two men. “She speculated . . . that one might be Hispanic.’’

I don't understand how two black men get into the report.

[LisaL]

23. The report doesn't claim she said the men were black when

she called 911.

[EFerrari]

37. Right. Neither does it reflect that she apparently told the dispatcher

that one of the men might be Hispanic or that she was unsure of the races of the individuals she saw.

[LisaL]

40. I doubt Crowley at the time heard her 911 call.

He was dispatched in response to possible break in. His report states that when he talked to her in front of the house, she told him the men appeared to be black.

[EFerrari]

43. Right. I'd like to hear that 911 tape. It's hard to see how two men

one of whom appears Hispanic suddenly become black when you talk to a cop. Strange.

[seabeyond]

44. no it isnt. lawyer said she saw only back. not later she saw they were black. it makes no sense.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

59. When writing up a police report,

the subjects' race is always included. Black, white, African-American, Caucasian, Asian, scaly green with webbed feet. It's part of the ID process.

So what's wrong with that, I wonder?

The idea that race wasn't an issue until Gates made it one might be upsetting some people who knew otherwise.............

[seabeyond]

63. attributing it to a statement the witness made when the witness did not make it is... a lie???? nt

[EFerrari]

69. There's nothing wrong with including race. It just generally doesn't change

between the initial report and the follow up. lol

It would be nice to know for sure how Crowley found two black men to write up in his report.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

81. One had no mention of race -

the report did.

What's so hard to comprehend?

[EFerrari]

86. I'm sorry if you are having trouble. Before this statement in the OP

we didn't know the caller had any trouble at all identifying the race of the two individuals she reported.

Does that help?

[Tangerine LaBamba]

91. HAHAHAHA!

Thanks for the assistance. Trying to break the code can sometimes be difficult.

Before the information in the 911 call was made public, even in this cursory article, everyone assumed that the caller had reported black men.

She didn't.

Now I want to see that transcript or hear the tapes.

It's good to have all the facts in a fluid situation before drawing any conclusions. That's my story, and I'm stickin' to it...................

[EFerrari]

94. Yeah, this is just a little bizarre. I've translated a lot of cases

and never had one where people's race changed mid burglary.

:rofl:

[Tangerine LaBamba]

96. See?

All that steno work and you still find new things!!

Ain't life a trip?

[EFerrari]

97. Translating, not transcribing. But, yeah. It is.

[JDPriestly]

158. "what appeared to be two black males with backpacks . . . ."

When I arrived at Ware Street I radioed ECC and asked that they have the caller meet me at the front door to the residence. I was told the caller was already outside. As I was getting this information, I climbed the porch stairs toward the front door. As I reached the door, a female voice called out to me. I turned and looked in the direction of the voice and observed a white female, later identified as Lucia Whalen. Whalen, who was standing on the sidewalk in front of the residence, held a wireless telephone in her hand and told me that it was she who called. She went on to tell me that she observed what appeared to be two black males with backpacks on the porch of -- Ware Street. She told me that her suspicions were aroused when she observed one of the men wedging his shoulder into the door as if he was trying to force entry. Since I was the only police officer . . . .


http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2009/0723092gates1.html

First thing I noticed was that this was the best written police report I have ever read in terms of grammar and sentence structure. Are all Cambridge police reports this well written or is there something special about this one? Was it edited by someone other than Crowley?

[JDPriestly]

161. Gates's report says that Ms. Whalen told him the men appeared to be black.

Read the police report again.

And by the way, the officer totally got into an ego trip. He just didn't want it to look like an old black man had insulted him a big, buff police officer. All these people were watching and the officer had to get in the last blow. He just had to win. He is not fit to wear a uniform. He did not put his duty as a police officer -- to use his authority so as to best serve the public interest and not to shore up his feelings of inferiority. The officer needs more than sensitivity training. He needs some self-esteem and the ability to take a few insults without losing his temper.

[MUAD_DIB]

46. Too many DU knee jerkers have.

[imdjh]

75. No one has painted her as a racist. And she's not saying that she didn't say two black men.

She's saying that she didn't say it in the 911 call, and the police report doesn't say that she did. It wouldn't matter if she had, so why is she making a big deal out of this?

The first article about this was the one which said something to the effect, "Responding to a report that two black males were observed .....". That's not the police officer talking, it's not even Lucia talking, it's the reporter summarizing.

So as of now, Crowley is the only one involved who hasn't changed his story at all since the incident. You decide what's going on here.

[LisaL]

100. No one did? Just on DU alone, how many have claimed she

engaged in racial profiling?

[seabeyond]

104. if she saw black men, then that is description. that would not be racial profiling.

that would be the cop.... but then i never put claim to that because i dont know. i have my issues with crowley, but i cannot give him that

the backpack when it was luggage, three or more bothered me

[merh]

113. No one said she was racial profiling.

They said she is the one that referenced race. (big difference, don't you know).

And she was the person who first referenced race - she told Crowley she observed two black men.

Side note: Crowley was not in a patrol car, he was in an unmarked police cruiser. That might be why Gates asked for Crowley's identification.

[imdjh]

117. I wasn't aware of that, but I suppose if anyone could be accused of it, then it would be her.

Gates can't be accused of racial profiling. Even if one assumes the worst about Gates, then what he did was a 'crime' of opportunity. Bigotry yes. Pursuing his political agenda at the expense of a random officer's career, yes.

Crowley can't be accused of profiling because he was responding to the report of a burglary in progress. He didn't stop a random black man to interrogate, he interrogated a black man inside the potential crime scene.

Something that has disturbed me from the start is that Gates either doesn't know what profiling is or he's being deliberately slanderous and inflammatory in furtherance of his portrayal of himself as not only an expert on profiling but a victim of it in this instance.

PS- I don't actually consider Whalan's participation in this to be profiling even if she assumed that two black men forcing their way into a Harvard property were burglars. Profiling is a specific term with a definition. Profiling is when police officers detain, interrogate, and search members of a given race based on the belief in a propensity to commit crime. Pulling over black guys with Florida license plates in Wilmington DE is profiling. Stopping black guys with blue bandanas when a woman has reported being robbed by a black guy with a blue bandana is not profiling.

[Skittles]

108. are you kidding

some DUers speculated she called because of the "scary black man"

[imdjh]

119. Sorry I missed that. But frankly it would fall into the category of noise.

[seabeyond]

27. if she didnt say they were black, how do we know she said backpack. maybe crowley made

that up too. am i missin something?

[imdjh]

51. The police report actually says that Whalan described the men in person.

It was the original article which said that it was on the 911 call.

[merh]

3. Release the 911 tapes

[EFerrari]

5. This just gets more bizarre. So, the cop was not looking for black intruders?

The union said they wanted the tape released. Well, now they have the caller on the record giving her permission.

[omega minimo]

12. that must be why they were so surprised to find black men there!!!

:hi:

[LisaL]

16. According to his report, he has talked to her in front of the house.

At that time she described the people as possibly black males. WTF is unclear about that?

[EFerrari]

21. That isn't what her lawyer is saying, is it?

[LisaL]

26. Well there is no way to check what she told him in front of the house

unless that was recorded.

[merh]

73. He was looking for the backs of intruders

makes sense to me :silly:

[EFerrari]

79. LOL

[ContinentalOp]

186. These can't be the right guys.

They have fronts too!

[BlooInBloo]

6. (shrug) Release the unedited call recording. Either she's lying or the police are.

[LisaL]

11. Did you even read the article? Police commissioner says

she didn't mention race during the 911 call.

[BlooInBloo]

17. "The report says Whalen observed “what appeared to be two black males..."

One of them is lying. Release the unedited recording.

[LisaL]

19. When she talked to him in person in front of the house.

Did you even bother to read the report?
Jeez.

[BlooInBloo]

29. Then releasing the unedited recording won't pose any problems for anyone.

[LisaL]

35. Assuming there is a recording of a conversation in front of the house.

[BlooInBloo]

42. That would be nice as well. I'll settle for the 911 call though - we know that exists.

[seabeyond]

39. still doesnt make sense. saying she didnt report race, couldnt see. only saw back.

so why when cop meets up with her on sidewalk all of a sudden she know color and backpack. she is saying she didnt see... then report is saying she saw.

[LisaL]

45. If you see someone from the back you can definetly see a backpack.

You could also guess race by the appearance of the hair.

[seabeyond]

48. lawyer said no. and they didnt have backpacks. they had luggage sittin around per gaters. nt

[seabeyond]

205. the cop lied. n/t

[bridgit]

9. That should be provable enough, release the tape

[omega minimo]

10. there's been a rash of hunchback breakins near the bell tower.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

31. When those start,

there goes the neighborhood.

Those hunchbacks are nothing but blockbusters, sent by the Vatican.

Everyone knows that........

[omega minimo]

41. somebody RING THE BELL!!!!!!!!

[Tangerine LaBamba]

50. That's COLD, dammit -

a job's a job..............

[omega minimo]

54. LOL

[MUAD_DIB]

66. That's a quasi MO.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

71. DING! DING! DING!

WE HAVE A WINNER!!!

[omega minimo]

80. BONG BONG BONG We have a bell ringer!!

:spray:

[omega minimo]

78. just awful

:rofl:

[Tangerine LaBamba]

83. Are you jealous?

I am.

That was a really good one, dammit, and we MISSED IT!

Are we losing our stuff?

[omega minimo]

115. Hey!!

Don't bust my hunch :spray:


I was happy to set that particular T-ball in the support stand for someone equal or perhaps ever greater in wiseacrehood.

:patriot:

Quasi MO :rofl:

[Tangerine LaBamba]

118. BALLS!

[omega minimo]

125. harumph

[Tangerine LaBamba]

127. HA!

Humps ain't balls.

When was the last time anyone said of someone who did something courageous, "Man, he's got some humps on him!"

Amateur...............................

[omega minimo]

146. Sorry fool

I trHUMPed you. :kick:

[Tangerine LaBamba]

149. Oh, these kids who think they discovered fire -

Yes, yes, fine, sure.

And try to convince me you're not DYING to own one of these:

http://www.cube-works.co.jp/works/pcgadget/humpingmovie.html

[timeforpeace]

13. Lot of vicious people here.

[Duckhunter935]

18. Yes, they can be. Do not read either.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

38. The matter of race can bring out

the worst in people. Or the best.

Like so many things.

But, since it's now claimed that the 911 caller didn't mention race, it would appear - and we don't know this yet, either - that the matter of race didn't come up until after the arrest.

I would love to know - from both sides - what went on inside that house. What was said........................................

[imdjh]

56. What they are talking about now are the ECC tapes, I think.

Crowley said he doesn't know what you can hear in the background on the ECC tapes of his radio transmissions. He doesn't seem to be concerned about it.

But Gates is now saying drop it? Did I read that correctly?

[EFerrari]

60. Where did you read that?

[PurityOfEssence]

121. Crowley's police report says that she was there when he arrived and said "two black males"

If that is not true, it will be interesting to hear the explanation.

Yes, this is most illuminating about people, and not necessarily for the better.

People are what they are, though, and they CAN change, but any sensible and fair method of running a society needs to be aware of the skittish and difficult side to the animal. For all our technology, we're still not much better than the clannish beasts who first gathered together to raise crops...

I think we WILL know, with time, and there will be lots of spluttering and hiding by some of the more bellicose certaintists.

Fascinating little episode, no?

[EFerrari]

128. So far, looks like the "certaintists" were right in the first place.

The charges were dropped, the mayor apologized and now it turns out, the initial report was not about two black men at all.

Yes, this episode has been interesting.

[LisaL]

129. Report says "appeared to be black males."

Most likely she was unsure. Perhaps she told 911 one might have been Hispanic, then told Crowley in person they appeared to be black.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

134. Absolutely -

it's like the best lab in the world. All the experiments I did in grad school, plus all the adventures in life, none of them ever compares to the newest one. Because it's always a slightly different dynamic, even if the facts change, and it's riveting to watch the lemming-like behavior, done out of the best of intentions, coalesce and come alive.

What is troubling, though, is that it always requires a certain degree of demonization of those perceived to be the enemy, even when the facts are not there.

That's the mob mentality that's scary. The anonymity and impotence of the Internet(s) Tubes are somewhat reassuring, but it still gives me pause whenever a new one erupts.

This is how law-abiding physicians get murdered. The ramping-up of the uninformed outrage can tip an already unbalanced individual just a bit too far. That's scary stuff.

Remember the Duke lacrosse rape story?

I wonder how many of the folks who were calling for everything but public castration and lynching of those young men now realize that the DA who pimped that case lost his job, his license to practice law, and his freedom when he went to the slammer for what he'd done - although only for one day - that they filed civil suits against a whole bunch of parties who'd trumpeted their guilt even before the DNA evidence cleared them - that they settled for undisclosed sums, and might even still have a Federal civil suit ongoing against Durham, but I'm not sure of that.

Perhaps the best we can hope for, for starters, is that people would learn to reserve judgment, keep open minds, and wait for facts to be presented before declaring victims and villains. The shades of gray would add to their intellectual palate, and make it far more interesting, perhaps make it fair.

But the need to be part of a group is a powerful one, so overcoming that, taking the time and using the energy to think things out, and having the maturity to wait to see what really happened, is a great big hope that I'm not convinced will ever emerge.

Until then, the show will go on, and I've got this great perch from which to look up and watch it all go by......................

[imdjh]

189. good post nt

[musicblind]

193. Well written post

Some of that could apply to the hate people sling at Michael Jackson because they are so sure of his guilt. I guess, in all cases, from the Duke case, to this one, we should reserve judgement until we have information.

[EFerrari]

203. Crowley lied. The witness says she never spoke to him.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6161559&mesg_id=6161559

lol

[masuki bance]

22. What would be wrong if she did mention their race? How about Gender? Height? Species?

Would mentioning that they were human beings be helpful?

[EFerrari]

25. That isn't really the point. We were led to believe she reported seeing

two black men at a possible B&E. That didn't happen.

[masuki bance]

28. What difference does it make? nt

[EFerrari]

32. It makes a difference that Crowley was not looking for a black man

for any reason in the initial 911 call as has been previously reported.

[masuki bance]

36. ?

[MrScorpio]

30. Bingo!

Since she didn't mention race, somehow race was inserted somewhere along the process.

I believe her, as this part of the reason why she didn't recognize her neighbor.

[masuki bance]

34. Maybe it was inserted when Gates said "This is what happens to a black man in America!"? nt

[MUAD_DIB]

57. As it has been reported she was a passer bye and not a neighbor.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

67. From the linked article:

"Whalen has for more than 15 years worked for Harvard in an office about 100 yards from Gates’s home" and it also says that she was aware that there had been break-ins in the neighborhood.

Sounds like she did a good deed..............

[MUAD_DIB]

82. Yes, a good deed, but she now feels that she needs a lawyer.

[EFerrari]

77. But the idea that Crowley was responding to a report about two black men

comes straight out of his report, not from a reporter.

[MUAD_DIB]

85. From the report...

In an interview last night, Cambridge Police Commissioner Robert C. Haas said it was accurate that Whalen did not mention race in her 911 call. He acknowledged that a police report of the incident did include a race reference. The report says Whalen observed “what appeared to be two black males with backpacks on the front porch’’ of a Ware Street home on July 16.

That reference is there, said Haas, because the police report is a summary. Its descriptions - like the race of the two men - were collected during the inquiry, not necessarily from the initial 911 call, he said.

[EFerrari]

88. And what do you make of that quotation?

[MUAD_DIB]

93. I read it as I read it.

I am not a police officer or affiliated with them. I am not blaming the police, the witness to Professor Gates trying to gain access to his house or the professor.

[TorchTheWitch]

163. Gates wasn't her neighbor

She works at Harvard and was taking a walk through the neighborhood. She didn't know Gates lived there and didn't recognize him as someone she knew if she ever knew Gates at all.

[MercutioATC]

49. The 911 call and her statement to Crowley are two separate issues.

IF this report is accurate, she didn't state race in her 911 call.

However, she also spoke to Sgt. Crowley in person at the scene. Even if it's evidenced that she didn't identify race in the 911 call, that doesn't address her statements to Crowley at the scene.

[seabeyond]

52. lawyer stated the woman could not see color, only their back. if she later saw race

the lawyer would have said. she left it clear the woman did not see race

[LisaL]

53. Exactly.

That is what his report says.
I presume he asked her for a description of suspects when he showed up.

[EFerrari]

55. Not in the police report. And the races of suspects are asked

because they generally don't change.

[MercutioATC]

74. You really need to be more specific if you're going to make a rational argument.

Which "police report" are you talking about?

THIS is the evidence we have seen so far:

1) Crowley's incident report states that he was dispatched to a possible break-in. No mention of race is stated.

2) Crowley's incident report states that he spoke with Lucia Whalen at the scene and she told him that she had seen two black men on the porch of a house and had further observed one of the men wedging his shoulder into the door as if he were trying to force entry. (keep in mind that this is EXACTLY what actually happened by Gates' own statements)

3) A representative for Whalen claims that she made no mention of race in her 911 call.

These statements are NOT mutually exclusive.

[EFerrari]

84. Of course those statements aren't mutually exclusive -- NOW.

But in the absence of clarification, the police report leads you to believe that Crowley responded to a call about two black men. And that didn't happen.

[MercutioATC]

92. The incident report makes no such claim...even by assumption.

Crowley's report states that he responded to a report of a possible break-in and was told by the caller, AFTER ARRIVING AT THE SCENE that she saw "two black men".

That seems pretty clear to me.

[seabeyond]

95. then why did the lawyer say she could not see the race, saw only back. n/t

[EFerrari]

98. I think if you go back to the initial reports in the press

you'll find that they say the police responded to a call about two black men with backpacks attempting to open that front door.

[LisaL]

101. And as we all know, press reports are always so accurate.

Especially the early ones.

[EFerrari]

103. Especially when they're working off of one incident report.

But I was showing the other poster that contrary to his own conclusion, that very assumption was drawn by every outlet that reported this story.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

110. Which just speaks to the sloppiness of

today's "journalists." They're stenographers, not reporters. They're supposed to report "facts," not "assumptions."

And it's a great example of how quickly assumptions are believed as fact, leaving everyone with egg on the collective face when the true facts begin to emerge.

Saying something repeatedly does not make it accurate, and anyone who leaps to a conclusion on the basis of initial news reports is usually making a mistake.................................

[Tangerine LaBamba]

105. The way this matter has evolved

has certainly shone a nice bright spotlight on the sloppiness of the press and the hysteria of the kneejerk liberals who declared this a race crime before all the facts were known.

They're still not known, and I'm still curious, but I'm enjoying watching it mutate.....................

[EFerrari]

109. Looks like Crowley helped this witness ID those two men as black

in contradiction of what she had already told the dispatcher.

Very interesting, indeed.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

112. No, it does not -

that's a stretch so vast, Evel Knievel is coming back from the dead for it.

Now you have the police officer doing something that would cause the reporting witness to change her story?

Senator Joseph McCarthy is no longer looking for staff, but, damn, that would have been a career for people who make such leaps of fancy.....................

[seabeyond]

114. the lawyer says she couldnt see the race. the incident report says she said.... n/t

[EFerrari]

116. Well, yes it does. She couldn't identify their races initially

and thought one of them may be Hispanic. Then, after Crowley interviews her, they turn up black. That doesn't happen very often.

lol

[Tangerine LaBamba]

120. Yes, it happens all the time -

that's why people are questioned by more than one person - to get a more complete answer. Sometimes it's a matter of who's doing the questioning, sometimes it's allowing the person to have some time in order to calm down, sometimes the caller sees something else after the call is made.

My bet - and I may be wrong - is that the caller made the 911 call in haste, anxious to get the police there as quickly as possible, since she knew there had been a string of break-ins in the neighborhood - where she worked for the past fifteen years. Then, in the time between the conclusion of the call and the arrival of the police, she got a better look at the men at the house.

This is common, and why it's routine for different officers to interview witnesses to a single incident. To get as complete a representation as possible.

Nothing is written in rock until the matter is concluded...........................

[EFerrari]

122. No, it doesn't happen all the time. That's why race is asked for

because unlike clothing or even hair styles, race is usually pretty constant.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

130. You're confused -

the sequence is the issue, not the content. Content folds right into sequence, so it's important to establish sequence properly before you can be sure of the content.

No race was mentioned in the 911 call, that has been reported, and it's easily verifiable. Once the tapes are made public, it'll be there, and if the caller is lying, she'll be shown up as one. But, it doesn't seem that she's lying.

Then, when the police officer interviewed her, after she'd had time to watch the house and the two men, she was able to amplify what she'd given to the police dispatcher.

So, unlike clothing and hair styles - whatever that was supposed to allude to - the caller's story stayed constant, and she was able to give more information after she'd seen more. Exigent circumstances and adrenaline rushing make for sketchy conversation. The dispatcher got the police there as quickly as possible, I would expect.

And the caller remained nearby, making herself available to the police officers who arrived on the scene, and, during that time, she was able to see more.

As I said, this happens all the time...................

[seabeyond]

131. then why didnt she see the luggage. them carry luggage in. driver leaving and driving away

leaving the owner in the house. telling cop so he knew

what assumptions.

[EFerrari]

132. Actually, according to the lawyer, she was confused about the races

and initially thought one individual was Hispanic. It sounds like she said that to the dispatcher because Crowley's report doesn't reflect that kind of uncertainty.

And, you don't know that she did watch the house, do you? There is no evidence that she did. She could have continued to her office and walked back to meet the police. In fact, you don't know any more than I do how or when those two men became black. We just know that they did sometime between her call and Crowley's incident report.

In fact, had she watched the house, she would have seen the driver carrying luggage inside, saying good bye and driving off with no loot. So, the chances are that she didn't stay to watch the house but kept walking on to her office after she thought she saw a break in. It supposedly isn't very far away, 300 yards was a number I read.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

141. My understanding, from that article at the link in the OP,

is that there was no mention of race in the 911 call beyond a speculation - speculation - that one of the men might be Hispanic.

No, I don't know that she watched the house. As I said in all my posts here, I am surmising. That's all anyone can do and still be valid. No one knows, but the hype that's propelling so much of this lynch mob mentality is reminiscent of the Duke lacrosse rape story. Lots of outrage there, too, until the facts were known.

I don't know. Neither do you. Neither does any member of the public right now.

She may or may not have seen the driver carry luggage. All I know from what I've read is that she saw two men using their shoulders to try to force a door open, and then she called 911. What transpired during her call, I do not know. What she saw after the call was concluded, I do not know.

Neither do you.

Neither does any member of the public right now.

Since the police commissioner said he's unable to know when the issue of race became known to the police officers at the scene, I certainly can't claim any superior knowledge.

Neither can you.

Neither can any member of the public right now.

I read that she's worked one hundred yards from the Gates house for the past fifteen years. I saw nothing of "300 yards," and it's hard to believe that anyone is going to spot an attempted break-in from three football fields away. The reference to "one hundred yards" is in the story at the link in the OP. Perhaps you meant "300 feet"? That would translate.

Chances are just as even that she did stay to watch the house, not walk away. It's human nature, I know this much, to stay and see what happens after you've called 911 to report a crime, even if it means moving to a more secure spot if you think you might be in physical danger. People just like to see how the movie ends.

All we know now is that we don't know when the matter of race became someone's idea of determinative as to how the matter unfolded. When that's known - if it's ever known - it will, no doubt, make this already compelling story even more interesting.......................................

[EFerrari]

143. She wasn't in her office when she saw what looked like a break in, she was en route.

And we do know that between her initial call and Crowley's incident report, her description of the two individuals changed. We know that because of her spokesperson's statement.

Did Crowley talk to her before or after he went in? You'd think, before. But, you'd also think that as a former Harvard cop, he'd know that there was University housing on that block and he'd call his old buddies to see if the address popped up for them before he went in.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

147. No one alleged that she was in her office -

that's one out of thin air.

She was walking by and saw two men on the porch.

That's what the article said.

We do know that time elapsed between her call and her interview with Crowley.

We do not know what she saw during that time.

You're making assumptions now, about sequence of events, and, as I've said over and over, no one not directly involved with the matter knows any of those things.

I don't know when Crowley talked with the caller.

Neither do you.

Neither does anyone not directly involved in this matter.

I would not think that his prior employment would or would not have been a reason for him to call "his old buddies" to check on an address. It beggars common sense to think, as the responding officer, he would take the time to make a call to have an address checked out. The ownership of the house wasn't at issue, but the possibility of a break-in was.

Time being of the essence, policemen generally get the job done as quickly as possible. Stopping to place calls to verify the title of the house is something that might find its way into a third-rate sitcom, but in real life, that's pretty hard to imagine.

As it is, I don't know.

Neither do you.

Neither does anyone not directly involved in this matter.

So far, no one knows with any certainty when the issue of race became paramount. Curiouser and curiouser, but always enlightening....................................

[EFerrari]

150. The thin air was you suggesting that she couldn't see a break in

three football fields away.

And I'm not making any assumptions that I know of. I simply observed that her report changed from the time she first called to the time the report was written by Crowley.

The PD check addresses all the time, and for many reasons. Crowley did finally call his old Harvard office after he had checked Dr. Gates' ID. The ownership of the house isn't at issue but knowing that the University has housing on that block would speak to identifying an occupant. And, btw, Crowley was waiting for other officers to join him at the scene. He had plenty of time to make that call. There was no sound of breakage, no visible action beyond this old guy with a cane that he could see through the front door.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

152. Your comment about three hundred yards -

that's what my comment about three football fields was about. A football field, in the US, is one hundred yards in length. You cited "300 yards," but I figured that you'd confused the fact.

Yes, she had more to say when time had elapsed. I've already gone over all that.

Yes, police check addresses. Exigent circumstances, though, as common sense will tell, do not lend themselves to calls checking ownership, when that's not at issue in the matter at hand. To think it mattered is to go off on an awfully strange tangent. Would it be relevant if the house belonged to Gates? Or someone else?

No, not at all.

I have no way of knowing how long Crowley waited for other officers to show up. I haven't seen that written up anywhere, so I don't know.

And I don't know what Crowley could see through an open front door.

As I've said over and over, to my vast entertainment, is that no one knows.

But, speculation is entertainment for some, and, believe it or not, some people sometimes just make things up so as to fit their perceived reality into their other perceived reality, the one that's comprised almost entirely of imaginary events.

No, really. Some people do that. They really do......................................

[EFerrari]

157. Yes, you check if the University owns the place when the guy inside

claims to be a professor. It mattered enough for Crowley to call. Apparently he didn't think it was such a strange tangent. :)

And both Crowley and Gates have said they saw each other through the open door. So, yes, we do know what they both said about that.

I can never understand people who repeat tirelessly that these known knowns cant' be known. It must offer them some kind of comfort.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

160. That first sentence?

It makes no sense. The officer was on a breaking-and-entering call. How would anyone know who was inside the house?

No sense at all.

OK, I'll take your word for it - for now - that they could see each other through the open door.

However, that is not how a B&E is handled.

"Hey, I can see a guy inside. He looks like a professor. Let's go home now!"

There's a lot you don't understand, yes, I can see that. It's good, though, to be murky - working to clear it up is a grand exercise in sharpening those critical thinking skills. Sort of a mental jigsaw puzzle, with half the pieces upside-down on the table.

There are so many unknowns in this Gates matter. Just today, one Sunday, we found out that the caller never mentioned race.

That's a biggie.

And I'm certain you understand the implications of that.........................................

[LisaL]

151. According to his report, Crowley talked to the caller when

he arrived on the scene, before he went into the house.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

155. Yeah, that's why I guessed

that she'd stayed on the scene after she made the call.

Most people would stick around, just to see what happens.

This poor woman must still be dizzy, her call having started an incident that's gone viral..............................

[seabeyond]

206. the cop lied. n/t

[EFerrari]

The Herald's version of this story is even more clear.

She says she never mentioned race, not she didn't mention it to the dispatcher. In the first version, her statement is spun by the police.

[seabeyond]

124. totally a guess, and possible, but a guess. and lawyer stated she didnt see. n/t

[bridgit]

133. So now you're accusing Crowley of witness tampering? Curiouser & Curiouser

This submarine has to come up for air, it just has to B-)

[EFerrari]

136. Am I? Those guys weren't black when she talked to the dispatcher.

They were black on Crowley's incident report. What happened?

lol

[bridgit]

145. Oh sure, "helped this witness" please, let's not even try to be coy...

Too many are completely & fully stuck on this whole *In The Fullness Of Time* gig. Things develop, matters are fleshed out, mandalas unfold, every journey starts with one foot step; sand art with but one grain of sand...the image develops characteristics over time. With so much random angst having been brought to this table, my wish for DU is that it will stop & wait till these matters have been developed

[Tangerine LaBamba]

154. Amen -

lots of facts still to be made public.

If, in fact, they ever are.

Open minds are a whole lot more fun than those locked up tight by preconceived and ill-conceived notions........................................

[EFerrari]

164. You seem to believe I have some kind of evil intention, which is strange.

I had a burglar in my bedroom whom the Berkeley police managed to capture about five blocks away at a nightclub. It was like a hat trick. They pulled him out of this place that must have had 60 people inside, easily.

But first they had to help me calm down and remember what I'd seen. And I didn't see much because I switched the light off to confuse him before I even got a good look at him. Then, he ran out of my house. So all I could give them was his approximate height, weight, that he was wearing a flannel shirt, that he was black and that he was wearing a watch with a luminous face. No age, not eye color, didn't see much about his hair or the color of his clothes. Somehow, they used that to grab this guy.

[bridgit]

192. Not so strange as it becomes it peculiar to understand the levels of omission people...

are willing to exhibit in response to this incident where now, all of a sudden, personal experiences are to be considered as rationale for why otherwise innocuous little OP's are precisely not that; but forms of faux-reason having sought all along instead; from the genus 'post message', to come down on every and all sides while walking the notion forward, backward and sideways that Cambridge cops are hunting/looking for black men (especially perhaps AA Prof's of AA Studies :eyes:) in so-called white neighborhoods in the course of subverting process and tampering with witnesses just to make it all so so yeah...I find that peculiar; that after all these machinations blind-eyed calls to potentially violent revolt against 'nefarious/evil authorities' such as the Cambridge PD for deigning to act upon a civilian 911 call regarding a possible B&E while dismissing any obstructions upon that process and all because Jack's magic beans are no longer viable? Look...

Fairy Tales analogize evil that much is clear. They analogize goodness as well: home, family, friendship, charity, fidelity, community, personal resolve, redemption, resolution, etc, lots of stuff big stuff but make no mistake a fairy tale is just that it's a fairy tale. And people pooh-pooh them all the time, until they discover they're wandering inside one like Hansel & Gretel then the scene changes,

"OMG, there was this witch and she like *caught* me with this little trail of pepperoni pizza bites and wouldn't let me go and she kept feeding me rotten Snickers bars and spitting in my Kiwi Cool Aid which was pissing me off and I remember thinking, 'Where is that woodsman with that axe, dammit!? I pay mountains of candy to keep this from happening and here I am anyway oh well...if & when he ever gets here I'll just explain *my* personal experience to him. And that should go a long way to making everything just like The Baby Bear's Bed once again, yeah...that's what I'll do that's the ticket :)'"

...

...

...congrat'z...

You're on the front porch of your own Cambridge-Conundrum near to where the king's men ride well shod heavy-horse in the course of their throwing good souls after bad if only we had prepared for them, the woodsman is obstructed and made less helpful - tied - by way of torn and haphazardly braided anarchists and pamphleteers parading through the veil of an incendiary devise a jig saw puzzle with a missing piece that will when concluded flesh out 'witness/observer/experience/personal point of reference' and to that I say kudos,

Cause you & I both know that my personal experiences simply aren't cool enough, whaaaaaa! Still, my question is this:

So they caught your burglar with what seemed like no info at all, huh? Hm, well that's cool. But that seemed like a stretch, or no? Well, either way I refer to those as 'cop eyes' it's a Sherlock Holmes/Sam Spade/Colombo kinda thing thankfully, however, politics isn't the only discipline that has a scientific foyer leading up to it -

http://www.law.berkeley.edu/searchResults.html?cx=009897613207788849675%3Aziggeafa8q8&cof=FORID%3A11&q=criminology#1002

Burglary it shouldn't need to be mentioned, flows easily from what often begins as B&E. If people don't want police services that's fine. They can forgo the fire dept too in the course of dumping their own garbage and humping their own water & sewage up & down flights of urban stairs. People can go on the red, stop on the green and change their oil on the yellow, but there will come a time such people will come up against another point of view different from their own. And that's when being able to remain flexible becomes a valuable, affirmative, noteworthy trait imo of course

The 911 tapes have been released, interested concerns are pouring over them as we key these things. Care to place any bets? Cause I'm not the betting kind :(:)

[EFerrari]

200. Looks like Crowley didn't even talk to this woman. He made it up.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6161559&mesg_id=6161559

[bridgit]

207. Eh fuck Crowley, he's just another ego driven jar-head, I am a tad put off...

by what CNN reports on this matter (for that matter nearly any matter) cause they are playing/working the Don Lemon/Fredricka Whitfield - Essence/WHAT matters, Mocha Mickey-D format demographic and if CNN knows nothing else they know how to massage & manipulate a demogrphic...they do it by inciting the members of that sample. They do it by recycling incendiary even half baked drivel and that's what CNN excels at. CNN is not conducting itself as a free press facility; they are conducting themselves as a for-profit business which of course is what they are

http://www.minonline.com/news/Essence-CNN-Partner-on-What-Matters_10967.html

http://www.cnn.com

CNN! Our one, true, contemporaneous example of a simple obomination

[EFerrari]

209. I cannot watch them at all. They are horrible. n/t

[masuki bance]

135. Why?

They are black.

[EFerrari]

138. The point of this new article is that she did not identify two black men

to the dispatcher.

[LisaL]

139. Crowley's report doesn't say she did in the 911 call.

Report says she told him in person the men appeared to be black.

[EFerrari]

140. That's right. n/t

[Tangerine LaBamba]

106. delete - double post

[Raineyb]

170. It didn't stop you from using it to blame Gates for what happened.

It's a bit rich for you to decide that others were foolish for paying attention to them at this point.

[seabeyond]

24. n/t

[LisaL]

33. His report doesn't state that when she called 911 she said

the men were black.

[seabeyond]

47. i dont agree lisa. you are making the assumption she later saw color.

nowhere does the lawyer indicate she was later able to identify black men and then told cop. lawyer says only saw back

[imdjh]

58. Why does a witness have a lawyer?

[EFerrari]

61. The lawyer is acting as spokesperson to the press.

[MUAD_DIB]

64. Perhaps she felt that knee-jerk reactionaries were

maligning her character by calling her a racist so maybe she wanted to get the protection of a legal professional.

[seabeyond]

68. or maybe she didnt see the race and she doesnt like crowley attributing it to her?

just as plausible

[MUAD_DIB]

87. From the police report.

In an interview last night, Cambridge Police Commissioner Robert C. Haas said it was accurate that Whalen did not mention race in her 911 call. He acknowledged that a police report of the incident did include a race reference. The report says Whalen observed “what appeared to be two black males with backpacks on the front porch’’ of a Ware Street home on July 16.

That reference is there, said Haas, because the police report is a summary. Its descriptions - like the race of the two men - were collected during the inquiry, not necessarily from the initial 911 call, he said.

[seabeyond]

90. yes, i read. but lawyer said she could not see race. and then she can state race to police

that doesnt sound consistent.

she saw only the back.... per lawyer.

[LisaL]

137. Her lawyer wasn't there.

[EFerrari]

144. Neither was Crowley at the time.

[seabeyond]

173. i am thinking since witness hired lawyer to be spokesperson, lawyer is speaking witness word

and it is a lawyer after all. the lawyer put out saw only back and couldnt see race. not a tough one to figure out. leaves one to have question.

[bridgit]

76. When they feel they're being tampered with could be 1 reason

[imdjh]

62. The driver had already left when Crowley got there. If Lucia didn't say "two black men" ...

... then how would Crowley have known that the driver was black?

So now, if Gates wants to keep on playing this, he's going to have to change his story to say that HE told Crowley that his driver was black. Now why would Gates tell Crowley that his driver was black?

[seabeyond]

65. now there are questions.... yup. n/t

[EFerrari]

70. Why? Gates didn't write that report. Crowley did.

[seabeyond]

72. and if she was standing on the sidewalk in front of house. saw the three or more cases of luggage

watched them carry it into house. and watched the driver drive away and leave the owner in the house.....

and the cop met her on the sidewalk

what the fuck was the whole to do over anyway

[imdjh]

89. That's a good one. We need to know where the car was. I'm suspicious of Lucia in this.

I don't know why, but I have been from the start. It's odd to call 911 to report a burglary in progress and then to be waiting on the sidewalk? Maybe it is, I don't know. I'm thinking that most people would rather peek through the curtains or stay on their own porch to watch what's going on. But so far no one has claimed that Lucia said, "Looks like I was wrong. The other guy was just a driver."

[LisaL]

107. Why is it odd? She is a concerned citizen.

Every now and then there is some case where bystanders do nothing, and DU goes bananas of how horrible people are. Now, the lady called in a potential break in, and DU again goes bananas because she got involved.

[EFerrari]

111. Not only DU unless her spokesperson issued a statement just for us.

lol

[imdjh]

123. I didn't say it was odd to call it in. That's good citizen.

I said that it was odd to call it in and then be waiting on the sidewalk in front of the house that she thinks two burglars are inside of. With a phone in her hand? And if the driver had already left, then why didn't she tell Crowley that one of the guys had left? I suppose it's possible that she didn't know that the driver had left. If she saw the two men on the porch as she was walking by, and then went into her house to get her phone, then she might have missed the driver departing.

None of the articles that I have read actually mention where Lucia lives. I don't show her anywhere in Cambridge. Actually, I can't find a 40 year old Lucia Whalen anywhere in the US. I see a Lucia A Whalen born 1931 in four towns in Mass., and a Lucia G Whalen age 48 in Texas. Using the spelling "whalan" there is no Lucia at all.

[tblue37]

156. She doesn't have a house there. She works nearby and was

on her way to work.

[TorchTheWitch]

168. She doesn't live on the street

She was taking a walk on the street when she saw the men at the door of Gates' house. She was asked to remain at the scene until the police arrived because the arriving officer would want to talk to her and get her info first hand. So she did as asked. I imagine she tried to make herself inconspicuous from the men she saw and continued to observe until Crowley got there. She was being a good citizen, and after all this flap about it she will probably never be a good citizen in such a situation ever again. And that's pretty sad.

Ms. Whalen is a private citizen and it's not the public's business where she lives or any other details about her. She works at Harvard, doesn't live on the street where Gates lives, and I have no idea why you are searching out irrelevant details about her.

[imdjh]

180. I case you hadn't noticed

I have no idea why you are searching out irrelevant details about her.

Some of us are playing armchair detective and trying to figure out what actually happened unlike folks like she who shall remain nameless who are simply screaming out their standard lines of 'culture wars' bullshit like some flipping street preacher.

[AlGore-08.com]

148. She couldn't "peek through her curtains" or "stay on her own porch". She lives in a different town.

She works in the area, she lives a couple towns away.

I'm just sayin', 'cause there's been a lot of sloppy reporting labeling her a "neighbor".

[Tangerine LaBamba]

153. She's worked somewhere about one hundred yards

away from the Gates house. Has worked there for fifteen years.

She was just walking by. She said she knew there had been a number of break-ins in the neighborhood recently

There's been a WHOLE lot of sloppy reporting on this one, but what else is new?

[seaglass]

169. Yeah because they first reported that she was 77 years old - I'm sure

she was thrilled with that. My SIL heard Whalen on the radio last night and I mentioned that she was 77 years old and now feel like an ass that I accepted even that as a truth.

It is sad that the media is in such a rush to report that they just make shit up. And then DUers do their part in making shit up.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

171. And don't forget -

people tend to continue to believe the first thing they hear, even after it's been proven that that first thing was wrong.

This one is gonna be interesting, because my personal hunch is that something quite unexpected will be revealed.

At least we're not bored, eh?

:hi:

[bridgit]

99. That's also part of why, even after indentifying inhabitants; cops request an evac especially...

if their report indication is for two or multiple people, possibly suspicious, yet they only see one standing there hello! Cause if they don't and there is another person in the house and they say, "Whelp, thank you for your time, Mr. & Mrs. John Q. Citizen, and be sure to have a lovely, splendor filled evening." and you're shot stabbed or some other intrusion befalls you cause someone was hiding in your closet from the cops downstairs w-w-w-eeeell...now we'd have a really big problem.

And if anything even remotely near to that would have happened in Cambridge the entire eastern seaboard would have blown off the NE quadrant of this country.

[EFerrari]

102. But most cops have language. After the ID, they can verbalize

we'd like to search the house to make sure you don't have unwelcome guests. It's not that hard to do.

[bridgit]

126. Not per this incident it would seem, buh-sides - It's harder to do than many are able imagine...

when others are peppering the environ with counter-requests/commands of their own however pointed however true however baseless all these concerns need be sorted out on-the-fly, like a prickly round of one-way negotiation...till it's determined there is no more good faith going on, that's usually when the tent comes down.

I know you know that lots of people do not always act or even vote in their own self interest; perhaps this is such a case, still - by tampering with the membrane that separates such matters, on both sides; people are able to transit that threshold into states of obstruction of justice or other forms of unproductive reply.

[JonLP24]

142. So can we believe that Gates was "tumultuous" because the PR says so?

I mean some people here are treating the police report as the infallible word of god.

[musicblind]

194. I don't think we can.

I've had experience with police reports lying in the past... and I mean blatantly lying and then writing down the witness's information incorrect so that they could not be caught. (thankfully the witness was located, and they were caught.... though nothing happened other than the police report being changed. No punishment to the officer who the police chief got out of trouble by vouching that he was an upstanding officer or some shit)

It is disturbing that so many people here trust police reports.

[seabeyond]

196. the obvious to me, if this witness did not say this, he attributed to her, her lies...

doesnt seem to be a concern or even thought on this thread.

tells me what other inaccuracies there are

[JDPriestly]

159. "what appeared to be two black males with backpacks . .

When I arrived at Ware Street I radioed ECC and asked that they have the caller meet me at the front door to the residence. I was told the caller was already outside. As I was getting this information, I climbed the porch stairs toward the front door. As I reached the door, a female voice called out to me. I turned and looked in the direction of the voice and observed a white female, later identified as Lucia Whalen. Whalen, who was standing on the sidewalk in front of the residence, held a wireless telephone in her hand and told me that it was she who called. She went on to tell me that she observed what appeared to be two black males with backpacks on the porch of -- Ware Street. She told me that her suspicions were aroused when she observed one of the men wedging his shoulder into the door as if he was trying to force entry. Since I was the only police officer . . . .


http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2009/0723092...

First thing I noticed was that this was the best written police report I have ever read in terms of grammar and sentence structure. Are all Cambridge police reports this well written or is there something special about this one? Was it edited by someone other than Crowley?

At any rate, Crowley claims that Ms. Whalen told him the men were black. That's what the police report says.

[EFerrari]

162. You're right. It is well written. I missed that completely. nt

[JDPriestly]

166. What does nt mean? I read it all the time and don't really know.

[EFerrari]

167. No text. Did you check the other version of the story posted below?

She's not saying she didn't cite race to the dispatcher. She's saying she never said the two men were black.

[JDPriestly]

187. The officer clearly stated that at the scene of the professor's house,

she told him that they were black. I suspect that the officer did not write that the report may be an inaccurate account of what happened. I am amazed at how well written the report is. Do the officers write the reports themselves in Cambridge? Do they call the report in or record it somehow and then have someone type it?

I've read police reports. At least where I live, they are usually written very quickly and have lots of little mistakes. I'm not disparaging the writing skills of police officers. It just happens to be the truth. Most people do not write flawless copy without editing. Most people do not write flawless copy or even near flawless copy in a hurry.

[JDPriestly]

188. Thanks for the explanation, by the way.

[musicblind]

195. It means no text but don't feel bad for not knowing

It took me months to figure it out lol

[whistler162]

172. Yup 'cause Police can barely spell their own names....

let alone write reports!

Would you like another helping of bigot with your serving of bigot?

[EFerrari]

175. No, gracious poster, but because people who don't write for a living

usually don't write that well.

[musicblind]

197. People writing such reports don't usually pay attention to grammar the same way they would an essay.

Not to mention that police usually come from members of society with lower education levels. That's not bigotry, it's just a statistic.

[EFerrari]

165. Woman who called Cambridge Police says she never referred to intruders as black

Here's the Heralds's version of this story. It's a little more emphatic:

Gates case shocker
Woman who called Cambridge Police says she never referred to intruders as black
Jessica Van Sack By Jessica Van Sack
Monday, July 27, 2009 - Added 6h ago

The 40-year-old woman whose emergency call to Cambridge police sparked the arrest of Harvard professor Henry Louis Gates Jr. and a raging national debate on race relations claims she never said “black” men were breaking into his house.

“This woman is 100 percent clear on what she said,” said attorney Wendy J. Murphy, who is representing 911 caller Lucia Whalen. “She never said she saw two black men. She said, ‘It never crossed my mind that there were two black men.’ ”

In fact, Whalen, who wants the world to know she is not a racist, isn’t even white - as had been widely reported - but has “olive-colored skin and is of Portuguese descent,” Murphy said.

She has worked in Cambridge for more than 15 years, about 100 yards from where Mr. Gates resides, and was aware of several recent break-ins in the area,” when she phoned police July 16 to say she saw two men forcing open the front door of a home on Ware Street, Murphy said.

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/regional/view.bg?&articleid=1187224&format=&page=1&listingType=Loc#articleFull

[seabeyond]

174. so why does it matter. if she never said black then crowley put in report to be thorough though not

accurate with witness statement.

not a be all end all. i could see crowley at end of day, knowing participants, putting that in to make a complete statement. but it does not appear to be what witness actually says.

crowley seems.... seems... to feel that retelling does not have to be factual

[EFerrari]

176. I don't know that it does matter but, it makes his eventual arrest of Gates

look more inevitable, a natural outcome.

[Name removed]

177. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[EFerrari]

178. Her story gets spun by the police in the version in the OP.

When you read the Herald's version which doesn't quote the poliee that way, her spokesperson says "never". That's pretty definite.

[Name removed]

181. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[EFerrari]

182. There is nothing racist in describing a suspect, that's right. n/t

[seabeyond]

184. but the point is. she never mentioned race. her statement written by crowley says she mentioned

race.

[EFerrari]

202. And she says, she never talked to Crowley. You were right, he was lying.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6161559&mesg_id=6161559

:hi:

[seabeyond]

204. thru out the whole night.... it was obvious and all PRETENDED as if not there. as they lectured

people that actually dare to question the police.

well a huge ass duh.... to all the people that pretended otherwise.

ah, and thanks for the info

[EFerrari]

208. Yeah, they gave me a headache.

lol

[Name removed]

179. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[EFerrari]

183. No, that's wrong. She never said they were black. She couldn't see them

from behind well enough to know that.

[jeffrey_X]

190. Even though one of the men had already entered the house with a key.

eom

[WeDidIt]

191. The house had NOT been broken in before.

The closest crime in teh past two years was a robbery seven blocks away. NExt closest was more than two miles away.

Man, you're just filled to the brim with outright falsehoods on this one.

Listen to the fucking tape.

And welcome to DU, however short your stay might be.

[bridgit]

199. 'A police source told ABC News that Gates' front door showed marks from where a previous break-in'

http://abcnews.go.com/m/screen?id=8153681&pid=4380645 A DUer living in the area said with the houses there sometimes being 300 yrs old they've all been broken into at one time or another. Gate' house was was said to be in the system as having had a previous break-in, it's part of what cops see on the screens in the cruisers after entering a point of cross referential data

[EFerrari]

210. My thought was that the door was stuck because someone may have tried it

while Gates was in China.

[seabeyond]

212. who knows.... they lie. n/t

[cherokeeprogressive]

185. K n R

[ecstatic]

198. That's nice..but... that doesn't change anything, IMO

I was never focused on the neighbor. Just on Crowley and his treatment of Gates.

[EFerrari]

201. Did you see that it turns out, Crowley never talked to her at all?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6161559&mesg_id=6161559

[ecstatic]

211. oh.... I see....

I was confused about why the MSM was bringing up the 911 call but it makes sense now. Why did he make up such an unnecessary lie?

[seabeyond]

213. NO ONE questions them. tehy can do what they want. ONE unnecessary lie makes whole

report a lie

[bridgit]

218. ONE, 'technicality', sends 5 duffel bags of heroin, in NYC, scot free...

God Bless America!! :kick:

[EFerrari]

214. Because he was trying to justify his arrest?

Dr. Gates is a very good judge of character, I think.

[ecstatic]

215. So why isn't the media framing it as Crowley LIED in police report?

I haven't read the headlines but it really was confusing to hear the snips here and there about the 911 call. They need to just come out and say that Crowley LIED!!!

[seabeyond]

216. did yu uever hear them say, bush, cheney lied. n./t

[EFerrari]

217. There's more here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6161559&mesg_id=6161559

Cable doesn't seem to have it yet.