My 24 year old son is this close to signing on with the Navy.

[bighart]

Smart young man with lots of potential. Had every opportunity to go to college, in fact finished his first year and started his second and then dropped out, and now regrets his decision not to. He has recently retaken the ASVAB, military aptitude test, and scored very well. They are offering him a wide range of job choices. Anyone have any feedback concerning Navy recruiting tactics and how well they keep there promises? He wants to get an engineering degree and they are saying he can get training and earn college credit for that purpose.

[Warpy]

1. The job choice sheet is called a "Dream Sheet" by

people already in the military as few people get what they signed up for. They're slotted into positions the military needs.

Still, he's got a good chance to have a decent career in the Navy with a job that might provide him with the rest of his education now that he's grown up enough to take advantage of it.

In addition, we no longer have madmen in control of the government, so going into the military isn't as bad a decision as it was a few years ago.

Given the shitty state of the economy and the likelihood it will continue to suck, I'd support his choice. At 24, he knows what he's doing.

Just warn him about the "dream sheet."

[lies and propaganda]

26. oh how I remember mine

the job and states I choose to live in were both so FAR from what i picked it was unrecognizable..

[NeedleCast]

48. You are mostly wrong

The "Dream Sheet" is a form for requesting duty stations, not jobs. In the Army and Navy, you are assigned an MOS (job) and for the most part, you end up doing it. Some of it does depend on your duty station and sometimes jobs are unavailable due to an overload of people in that MOS already or because a person didn't score high enough.

In the Army, once you sign up for an MOS and pass the training for it (AIT training, which comes after basic training), that's the job you have. Dream sheets are something else entirely.

[imdjh]

2. Congratulate him and hope for the best.

It's probably all you can do, and being supportive never hurts.

You say that he dropped out of college in his second year and now he's going into the Navy. One might guess that he sees a lack of self-discipline in his life, or simply wants to do things differently. Some young people, especially bright ones, are disappointed by college because it feels too much like super-high-school and they thought that it would be somehow different. Well, the Navy will be different.

As for the Navy's "promises", they aren't promises but that doesn't mean that everything can't or won't work out well. My uncle went into the Army as an enlisted man and before it was over he was an Air Force pilot. When you first go in, they tell you what you will be good at and what kind of work you will do. After awhile, you learn to work the system to your advantage.

A friend of mine joined the Navy thinking that they had promised him a specific career path. When he wasn't assigned to that career path right away, he got pissed off and got himself discharged. It was, IMO, a huge mistake. Had he stayed in, he would probably be much better off now.

[Burma Jones]

3. The Navy's a good choice

Your son may or may not get the job he thinks he'll get, but he'll get structure and opportunities to carve himself out a future as close to any most of us thought we'd have at age 24.

I have a younger brother that enlisted at 18, wound up on a Submarine as a Sonar Tech, retired before he was 40 and now makes a handsome living working with Navigation Systems on Commercial Shipping vessels.

If you're going to join the Military, The Navy is a good choice, particularly if you want to avoid intense indoctrination.

[Zorro]

4. If they're guaranteeing him a specific school

then that's what he'll get. They'll stagger his enlistment date to synchronize with the projected class enrollment.

Regarding the "dream sheet", that has to do with where you'll be assigned, not what training you'll receive. The detailers will attempt to fill vacancies at specific duty stations with those that expressed an interest to go there, but as you can imagine there can be more requests for specific duty stations than open slots, so odds are he'll get assigned to where the Navy's needs are the greatest for his rating.

[Dr.Phool]

18. I don't know how it works now.....but

When I enlisted in '69, they didn't give me the school that they guaranteed me in my enlistment contract.

They had guaranteed me Aviation Machinist Mate (jet engine mechanic) school, but after boot camp, they changed it to Aviation Prep school, plus self-study, and on the job training. I never got near a jet engine. All my unit had was propeller driven (piston) aircraft.

Take anything they say with a grain, no, make that a whole pound of salt.

[lpbk2713]

22. I was in the Navy four years and never stepped foot on a ship.

Spent three of my four years in Spain around C-130's and C-118's. (1965-69)

[Ex Lurker]

38. I can go you one better.

well, not me, but my bro-in law. He had a 26 year career, retired as a Sr Chief, and never went to sea. Land based EP-3 squadrons the whole time. Plenty of time deployed, but never on a ship.

[sammytko]

5. The Navy is supposed to have the best technical schools of all the services.

I think he will enjoy it. I loved my 20 some years in the Air Force. I really admired the dedication of the SeaBees (Construction Battalions) stationed with us in Kuwait.

[MercutioATC]

6. You need to start early.

My son and I have always had a sarcastic way of communicating with each other. From the time he was 12 and first starting to consider his post-high-school life, I told him that I'd break his legs if he decided to join the military after high school.

He knew that I was not entirely joking.

[bighart]

41. not sure I follow you here.

[MercutioATC]

43. He's 18 now and not entirely sure what he wants to do, but he's going to college.

Joining the military was never a consideration for him.

[Heidi]

7. Please take a moment to read this Alternet article.

Top Military Recruitment Facts: http://www.alternet.org/world/62945/

Excerpt below:

1. Recruiters lie. According the New York Times, nearly one of five United States Army recruiters was under investigation in 2004 for offenses varying from "threats and coercion to false promises that applicants would not be sent to Iraq." One veteran recruiter told a reporter for the Albany Times Union, "I've been recruiting for years, and I don't know one recruiter who wasn't dishonest about it. I did it myself

2. The military contract guarantees nothing. The Department of Defense's own enlistment/re-enlistment document states, "Laws and regulations that govern military personnel may change without notice to me. Such changes may affect my status, pay allowances, benefits and responsibilities as a member of the Armed Forces REGARDLESS of the provisions of this enlistment/re-enlistment document" (DD Form4/1, 1998, Sec.9.5b).

6. Job training. Vice President Dick Cheney once said, "The military is not a social welfare agency; it's not a jobs program." If you enlist, the military does not have to place you in your chosen career field or give you the specific training requested. Even if enlistees do receive training, it is often to develop skills that will not transfer to the civilian job market. (There aren't many jobs for M240 machine-gunners stateside.)

[Orsino]

24. A few of these "facts" are editorialized FUD.

An enlistee's chances of getting the training he signs up for, and of working in that field, are very, very good, if he or she meets the minimum qualifications.

Recruiter's tales of military life are overly rosy, to be sure. A recruit is entitled only to the terms of his/her contract.

[dgibby]

30. And 5 deferments chicken hawk DICK should know!

Actually, as much as I hate to admit it, he's right. It's just that it boils my blood anytime one those draft dodgers says anything about the military.

[Arkansas Granny]

8. I have a grandson and a granddaughter who are currently serving in the Navy.

They both scored very well on the ASVAB and both got into the fields they wanted. Granddaughter is now stationed on the west coast and grandson is out on his first cruise. They are both enjoying their experience now that they are through boot camp and initial training.

Also, two of my sons who served in the Navy and my brother served for 20+ years. They received excellent training through the Navy which helped them land the jobs they are working at now. The Navy has great training schools and the old saying of "Join the Navy and see the world" is certainly true.

[bighart]

9. I am not opposed to him joining at all.

I think it will be a great experience for him and provide him with opportunities he is not going to get otherwise. He has been working a factory job for the last 2 years and hates it. He had enrolled in and been accepted to a community college in a town 75 miles away but has not been able to find a job there to support himself while he goes to school. I think the Navy is a better choice myself but don't want to see him get his hopes crushed if things don't work out exactly the way he envisions short term. I talked to him about his long term thinking and he said if he joins he would plan to make a career out of it and not just do one hitch and get out. I come from a Navy family, dad was in for 25 years as an aviation electronics tech and brother did 12 years int he submarine service. Unfortunately dad has passed on already so my son can't talk to him about it. He has talked with my brother and gotten some good feedback from him. Brother was in from 81 to 93 so he isn't really too sure of the way things are done now.

[kristopher]

31. Why don't you recommend college ROTC?

He incurs an obligation to serve after he finishes college. There is nothing wrong with being in the enlisted ranks, but future prospects are better for officers.

[Lars39]

10. Might want to show him this:

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/02/07/iraq.navy/

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/07/21/MNGI3R4EI01.DTL

[Arkansas Granny]

11. Those articles are 2 - 3 years old. I'm not sure if the Navy still has much of a presence in Iraq.

It is worth noting, however, that once in the service, you could be assigned to duty anywhere.

[Lars39]

12. Found this:

http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:z0RtIBXtgZIJ:www.defenselink.mil/news/newsarticle.aspx%3Fid%3D1347+How+many+sailors+are+in+Iraq+%3F&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a

[Arkansas Granny]

14. The original date on that article is 2006.

[Lars39]

21. Are you reading the articles at all?

They have set target numbers of 12,000, yet only have 4 or 5 thousand so far.

[Arkansas Granny]

25. Yes, I'm reading the articles. The information contained in them is still 2 - 3 years old.

They do not reflect the current figures for Navy personnel serving in Iraq, only expectations from 2006 and 2007 when the articles were written.

[maxrandb]

13. When it comes to A School and jobs

We do a pretty good job in the Navy. At one time, we were the only service that could say we "guarantee" the job you signed for. As long as your son does well in the school and stays out of trouble, he'll be fine.

Now, there will be jobs he will be temporarily assigned when he first gets to his permanent duty station that kind of suck. He may spend 90-120 days working on the Mess Deck (Chow Hall), but those jobs are of a temporary nature, and are usually required of every new, junior person in the command.

I too tried college for a year, didn't join the Navy until I was 24, promoted to Chief Petty Officer and then earned a commission through the Warrant Officer/LDO Program. I am going on my 25th year of service, and it has been a blast, and probably, aside from marrying my bride, been the best thing I could have done.

He will earn college credit for every school and job he does in the Navy. He'll even get a couple of credits in Physical Training and Health through his time in boot camp.

[maxrandb]

15. I wanted to add

I've walked on every continent on the earth. Not too many 9-5 folks can say that.

[Obamanaut]

29. I live in a very small town now, and have for many, many years.

After one deployment, which covered the Christmas season, one of the relatives asked me what we did for Christmas while we were gone.

"I went to Bethlehem. Doesn't everyone?" Miz O elbowed me. But the carrier was there, and we stayed for several days.

[bighart]

19. Thank you for the honest response.

I appreciate your feedback. Like I said up post I am not the least bit opposed to him joining the Navy, just want to make sure he know what he is getting into and want to see him approach it with realistic, although maybe a bit idealistic, expectations how things may go down.

As for the doing good in school and staying out of trouble thing, I believe at this point he will be fine. He has matured considerably over the last two years and is now thinking in terms of what will be the most beneficial 5, 10 or 20 years down the line. Most of the foolishness of the late teens and early 20's has been replaced by an understanding of the real world. I am very proud of him and want to see him succeed at whatever he chooses to do.

[maxrandb]

23. You're Welcome

It's not all gravy, but it can be a very rewarding experience. If you have any questions, feel free to shoot be a DU e-mail.

[bighart]

27. only have one issue

being a Steelers fan myself, that Brwons helmet avatar is a bit disconcerting.

[maxrandb]

35. I'm totally screwed up

I've been married to a Steelers fan for 23 years!!

There are two weeks out of the year when we don't talk to each other. :)

[lumberjack_jeff]

16. My niece was in the Navy, now she works for the post office.

The good thing about it was that the navy time counts for her fed gov't retirement benefits.

[Dappleganger]

17. Sounds like my husband's brother...

the Navy was great for him. He's extremely bright but was unfocused, so he dropped out after a year of college and joined. He ended up on a nuke sub and learned all kinds of things, went back to school and now has his masters. He's been out for awhile (he did 8 years) but they paid for his school and he is doing well working for Edward Jones.

Not everyone takes a straight path, but it was the right one for him. The Navy helped give him self-discipline which was sorely lacking, and that helped him to become who he is today.

[Statistical]

20. Navy Nuclear Power school is the top choice if he scored really well and can pass a background check

he should ask about the Navy Nuke program (formally known as Navy Nuclear Power School).

The school is very engineering heavy. Unlike most tech schools where you earn a couple of college credits the classes at the nuke school are very comprehensive. The school is 18 months long and gets you within 20 credits of a college degree. He will get a good education and a large majority of it will transfer to an engineering degree.

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/navy/l/blnukeschool.htm

The re-enlistment bonuses for nuclear engineers are off the chart. Literally Congress has raised the re-enlistment bonus caps twice because the Navy can't keep people in without them (recruiters from nuclear power companies try to steal Navy nuclear engineers with signing bonuses). Re-enlistment bonuses vary based on "needs of the military" but for nukes they can exceed $80K for 6 year contract.

When he gets out he will have a degree in engineering and likely a job lined up by a recruiter to work at a reactor somewhere in the US with a starting salary in the $60K range. Be advised though the Navy's nuke program is extremely competitive.

[Obamanaut]

28. Adding to what DUer maxrandb said in post 13, he can also get

some of the first two years of college requirements done while on active duty. While at sea, some of the larger ships have college professors that ride the ship and teach classes, with the cost of books being the only expense. The program formerly was called PACE, and the name is something close to that now, and is googleable.

All of the supervisory personnel I knew were more than willing to work with the young people who wanted to take classes. I was in an aircraft squadron when aboard carriers, and was the senior enlisted man (master chief) in my squadron for the last four years, and we made it a policy. All of my COs and XOs agreed with me that it was a good thing.

And if he stays, retirement ain't so shabby either.

[BlooInBloo]

32. They lie about everything, so I hear.

[dgibby]

33. I had a great career in the Navy.

Joined in '69. Went in as an officer since I was an RN. I had a diploma from a Hospital School of Nursing when I joined. When I was a LT, the Navy sent me to George Mason University in Va., where I got my BSN. I was then career tracked into admin., ended up as Assist. Director of Nursing at one of my duty stations. Retired in '91, spent the rest of my nursing career as a contract nurse at the Navy Hospital in Charleston, SC.

I haven't kept up with the latest programs, but some things are universal, no matter when you join or what branch of service you join.

1. Get ALL promises in writing, but understand that the needs of the service trumps the needs of the individual.

2. No matter what you are guaranteed by the military, the Gov't has the right to negate it at anytime, and you will have no legal recourse. I found this out the hard way.

When I joined, we were guaranteed "free" health care for life. When that was changed from CHAMPUS to TRICARE (requiring co-pay), a group of retirees initiated a class action law suit challenging that because there was no "grandfather" clause included.

The gov't admitted (finally), that indeed, we had been guaranteed (as opposed to promised) free care, but that they were not legally bound to honor the contract.


Having said that, I am grateful for TRICARE, the co-pay is not onerous, and I am also grateful for my pension. If I had it to do over, I would. It was by far and away the best decision I ever made. I'm just glad I didn't have to serve under Dubya after the mess he made of everything.

[Obamanaut]

42. I retired in 1988. For many years I had Tricare Prime as my health

insurance. My copay for dr visits was $12, inpatient hosp care was $11/day. Now I am over 65, with Medicare using Tricare for Life as the supplement. Now I go to dr office, with no copay.

Health care aside, I enjoyed my 28 years. I didn't always like my employer, but I did like the job I was doing every single day. Some exciting moments - like flying into the eye of a typhoon while attached to a weather recon squadron; or standing on the flight deck between to F4 Phantoms in full afterburner.

I'd do it again. Shoot, if allowed, I'd try it now!

[omega minimo]

34. He can go back to school without giving his life to the military

:thumbsup:

[JimWis]

36. I did 4 years in the Navy. One thing that impressed me was the

intelligence of the instructors, whenever I had to go for any kind of special classes. Also there ability to hold your attention. These guys would have made superb teachers in the civilian world. This was not necessarily the case in boot camp, but in anything after that, they were the best.

[Ex Lurker]

37. Get everything in writing up front.

Whatever job/incentives he gets offered, make sure it's in the contract when he signs. If it's not in writing, there's no guarantee he'll get it. And if the recruiter tries to tell him what he wants isn't available, He has every right to take a walk. This is the one time in his military career when he has all the leverage. He should use it to get the best deal possible for himself.

[Eryemil]

39. I'm sorry.

And the great ships sail outward and return
Bending and bowing o'er the billowy swells,
And ever joyful, as they see it burn
They wave their silent welcome and farewells.

[Romulox]

40. Please help him change his mind. He is so young, and doesn't understand how many other

opportunities he has. It's not worth it to risk his life for--whatever we're always fighting for overseas... :shrug:

[bighart]

44. Thank you all for your posts.

I am appreciate each and every one of them.

[JVS]

45. People from the navy get sent to Iraqistan too

[NeedleCast]

46. They're correct about the degree and college credits

If he scored well on the ASVAB they're probably recruiting him for nuclear Navy. If he plays his cards right he can walk away from that with the equivalent of a nuclear engineering degree. Back in the early 90s I got recruited for one of those type positions, but it required a six year commitment which was more than I was willing to sign on for.

I think it's key that if he join the Navy he take a position he is actually interested in. I served five years in the Army and generally hated being in the army but loved my job.

[nadinbrzezinski]

47. Anything they put in the contract, have it IN WRITING

and have a lawyer go through it.

They at times (most of the time) promise the world, but unless it is in writing....