Teen fined $25,000 for cost of NH mountain rescue

[Kadie]

Teen fined $25,000 for cost of NH mountain rescue

By HOLLY RAMER, Associated Press Writer

Friday, July 17, 2009


(07-17) 14:27 PDT Concord, N.H. (AP) --

A Massachusetts teenager who spent three nights alone on Mount Washington in April after he sprained an ankle and veered off marked trails has been fined more than $25,000 for the cost of his rescue.

Scott Mason had been praised for utilizing his Eagle Scout skills — sleeping in the crevice of a boulder and jump-starting fires with hand sanitzer gel. But authorities say he wasn't prepared for the conditions he encountered and shouldn't have set out on such an ambitious hike.

"Yes, he'd been out there in July when you could step across the brooks. And people have been out there in winter in hard-packed snow. But with these spring conditions, it was soft snow, it was deep snow," said Fish and Game Maj. Tim Acerno.

Acerno said he believes Mason's fine is the largest ever sought under a 9-year-old New Hampshire law that allows lost hikers and climbers to be charged for rescue costs. Mason's rescue was particularly expensive because the helicopters the state typically used were unavailable, and a helicopter from Maine had to be brought in, Acerno said.

Mason, 17, of Halifax, Mass., had planned to spend one day hiking 17 miles in the New Hampshire mountains but ended up lost after he hurt his ankle and decided to take a shortcut. The shortcut led him into rising water and deep snow caused by unseasonably warm weather.

Read more:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2009/07/17/national/a100743D18.DTL&tsp=1

[Palin delenda est]

1. Sounds fair to me.

He seems to have ignored the basic rules.

[tabasco]

18. You've never been in the woods, have you?

Nice and safe in mommy's basement, isn't it?

[pitohui]

22. why even ask, tabasco, tis obvious this person has no knowledge of the outdoors

anyone can be injured whilst hiking, anyone

life is risk

people, esp. young people, should not be punished for daring

[Palin delenda est]

39. Well, actually I agree. We should protect everyone from themselves no matter what the cost.

That will fix all our problems.

[Palin delenda est]

37. Well, as it happens, I spend a lot of time in the 'woods'.

I exercise proper precautions when I'm out in the boondocks and I do not violate the prime directive, so to speak, like this idiot did. If and when I do, I expect to be held responsible for my own stupidity. My mommy is dead and she didn't have a basement but I sure do appreciate your kind response.

[uppityperson]

80. Looks like you are spending time in the graveyard now, Thanks Mods!

[TahitiNut]

81. Indeed. That one was obvious from the start.

Sometimes it takes a bit to get "consensus." :evilgrin:

[stray cat]

2. Negligence becuase after the injury he kept climbing instead of coming down

Judgement was that a responsible person would turn around after injuring an ankle instead of climbing higher and taking a short cut higher up.

[Hannah Bell]

8. hardly. "short cut".

[NightWatcher]

3. I love what our society is becoming. He was an Eagle Scout who was injured...

There is a reason we have search and rescue. If not, why not can S&R and just post signs, "If you're stupid enough to get hurt or lost, you're on your own"

[KittyWampus]

12. Heaven forbid people be held responsible for their own actions.

[Palin delenda est]

40. Apparently there are some who think they should not.

Go figure.

[Lorien]

68. And heaven forbid we humans care enough about each other

to volunteer to help out a teen who used poor judgment. I mean jeez, altruism and heroism is SO last century, and besides people like you NEVER exercised poor judgment when you were young, right? :eyes:

[MercutioATC]

14. S&R DID help him...but he made the situation more difficult...and more expensive.

"The Eagle Scout" made bad choices (ones that didn't even coincide with his Eagle Scout training) and he's being charged for the costs incurred by those choices.

I'm fine with this.

[Believing Is Art]

4. He should have used better judgment, but

"Mason's rescue was particularly expensive because the helicopters the state typically used were unavailable, and a helicopter from Maine had to be brought in, Acerno said."

It doesn't seem fair that he is being excessively penalized because the state's equipment was unavailable.

[glowing]

5. This is a slippery slope to me..

What's next, the police charging you a bill if you call and need their services? You know you were really stupid to work the 3rd shift and be robbed. What's the point of living after being rescued if you can't afford to live once being rescued? Perhaps if we are going to go down this road, a simple accident insurance should be purchased.. something run by the Parks services.. a simple $5.00 fee for coverage.. Pooled across the country over all the hiking trails would cover the costs of the few hikers per year that have need of the services of search and rescue.. I would say govt run insurance because private insurance would keep many people from hiking.. and last I looked hiking and mt. biking and mt. climbing and river rafting were great ways of excercising and appreciating nature. But if the costs aren't being covered by the state and govt, perhaps a small ins. fee for this purpose could be imposed.

[Hannah Bell]

7. it's bullshit, of course.

[lexanman]

15. it already happens.

People are getting billed for 911 calls on "problem" properties here where I live. Many municipal services are billing people for what should be tax covered expenses. People pay taxes for this reason. The kid made poor judgement, but $25,000 is extortion. Revenue generation is a huge issue with speed cameras, and a number of other systems police have in place.

[Lagomorph]

78. Cascading costs...

They had to bring a helicopter from Maine. So, up in Maine they had to cover that helicopter's area with another one... Helicopters equipped to lift people can burn around 50-150 gallons a fuel an hour...

S&R people are put at risk when they go out... they'll need support... Sooner or later, somebody has to call the insurance companies...

It can add up real fast with lot's of people on the clock. I'll bet $25,000 didn't come close to covering the costs.

[TheCowsCameHome]

6. Sounds fair enough. He's very lucky to have been saved.

Mt. Washington is nothing to mess with. Hikers go up there and think all they need is a cellphone to get themselves rescued. This young man was certainly better equipped, but rescues are expensive and very dangerous to all concerned.

[Hannah Bell]

9. bs.

[TheCowsCameHome]

13. really?

You don't know much about Mt. Washington.

[Hannah Bell]

16. i know about your post, though.

[Believing Is Art]

23. Not exactly fair

I'm not going to argue that he used poor judgment. I don't even think a fine of some sort would be inappropriate here.

However, according to the article, for the last fiscal year there were "131 missions that cost $175,320" altogether, or an average of about $1,340 per rescue. He is being charged almost 19 times that figure. Now, many of those rescues probably did not involve a helicopter, but the cost of his went up dramatically because the state's resources were unavailable and they had to bring in help from Maine. That is not his fault and he should not be held responsible because he had the bad luck to make his particular dumb decision when the state was not equipped to handle S&R.

[Hannah Bell]

57. so they're asking the 17-yr old to fork over 15% of their yearly budget.

for 131 rescues.

sure, what could be fairer?

[crickets]

79. *Thank you* for pointing this out.

I understand people getting annoyed about S&Rs for certain outdoor pursuits that have a much larger built-in risk than hiking and thereby a much larger built-in risk and cost for S&R. It's a thorny issue. But this whole thing smells of scapegoating and a certain amount of opportunism in going after a 17 year-old hiker with a fine that incredibly high.

I'm not going to argue that he used poor judgment. I don't even think a fine of some sort would be inappropriate here.

Agreed, but this amount is off the scale.

[pitohui]

24. i've hiked mount washington and before the days of cell phones, you are just being ignorant

you are just being silly

this kid's parents pay taxes for a reason and he pays taxes for a reason, search and rescue is part of the package -- if new hampshire just wants to invent a price for the rescue and steal from this kid, then they are thieves -- i hope people will think twice about hiking there in future -- there are many other states more welcoming anyway -- some states might actually enjoying having young people get out in the forests

many people, esp. young people, have little money, hiking outdoors is the one thing we used to be able to do

now even that will be stolen from us

anyone can twist a fucking ankle, anyone can make a trivial mistake

what are they going to do? jail him when he can't afford to pay? i suppose so, what person his age has that kind of money -- this is a cruel and hurtful theft

[canetoad]

10. An how much

would a full-scale training exercise under realistic conditions have cost them?

Can never agree with charging people to be rescued. Next you'll be penalizing them for getting sick.

[Hannah Bell]

17. "penalizing them for getting sick" - you mean like "uninsurable"?

what a nasty little country this is getting to be.

glad i'm going to die soon.

[SoCalDem]

11. Key words here: "veered off marked trails"

Here in CA, we have rescues ALL THE TIME, often including hundreds of hours of labor, the use of helicopters, boats, snowmobiles, you name it.

Rescue works costs money, and it should not be the sole responsibility of the taxpayers to pay for , when people go "off the path", and needlessly endanger their own lives. There's a reason that some areas are "off limits".

Although it makes big news when reimbursement requests are made public, I'd be willing to guess that when people truly cannot afford to pay, they are not propsecuted or thrown in jail, when they do not pay. BUT if you are a wealthy person, why should you NOT be expected to help pay for the rescue of yourself, or a dearly loved family member or friend.

[rfranklin]

20. Mountain climbers should have to buy insurance...

so that when they are saved by rescue teams and helicopters and such, the cost is covered. It always amazes me that people who climb mountains think they are doing something heroic when it's just an amusement. (Disclosure: I have gone mountain climbing.)

It is not like 911 calls by people having heart attacks.

[LastLiberal in PalmSprings]

35. This idea was floated for Denali (Mt. McKinley) in Alaska

It was dropped because it was feared that a few climbers would use it as a "get off the mountain free" benefit. As it is, you pay to be flown commercially to and from the 17,200 foot base camp, where you start your hike to the summit, which is at 20,300 feet. Although not everyone would do it, it would be tempting to take the quick way down once you summit.

I don't know the process this state uses to assess fines; whether a hearing is held where the victim can produce evidence that he was not negligent in his actions, etc. If they just slap you with a bill I don't think it's right, especially in this case where the hiker made the mistake of getting injured when the state's helicopter was unavailable and another one had to be flown in at a greater expense.

[mitchtv]

43. HI, LLPS

Haven't seen you around in a dog's age. We have a lost one at least once a month around here, and have a volunteer rescue company. Unfortunately a certain percentage die around here . My own opinion is that park visitors planning hikes should be able to buy a cheap insurance policy with their admission to the park, It does get rather expensive when they' re calling out the heavy eq all season long.This case seems exorbitant

[tabasco]

21. There is a public interest in encouraging people to visit the wilderness.

A strong public interest.

These idiotic policies discourage wilderness visits.

Anyone who has not been lost or has never been caught unprepared has never been anywhere.

[pitohui]

25. thank you tabasco

truer words were never written than this:

Anyone who has not been lost or has never been caught unprepared has never been anywhere.

the basement dwellers, teevee watchers, and meth users whose idea of adventure is getting high or drunk need to stfu

these days if anyone gets out of line and does anything other than the socially approved basement dwelling and teevee watching, it seems they must be brutally punished for wanting to actually live their own real life instead of a fake one

some of the people on this thread appear to be reincarnations of ronald reagan himself

[tabasco]

70. Yes, it's easy to be a "rugged individualist"

when you never venture outside the tv room.

Phony people with phony lives who worship phony cowboys.

on edit:>>>>>> :hi:

[JanMichael]

34. Been lost once in 1978 (N. Cali) but didn't need any aerial help.

We also did not veer off the designated trail. We simply got a tad confused with maps and compasses. But we got scared and what we thought was lost which amounted to being behind our pickup time and date.

That said we never got off the path and did not need a disaster team to find us....

If a hover craft or starship is needed to rescue you in this capitalist system then pony up bucko.

In Michael's perfect socialist system you'd just get a nasty reprimand for wasting the people's time and resources and a firm smack on the ass.

[tabasco]

45. So it has to be a perfect "socialist" system to have rescue teams for wilderness hikers?

That's idiotic.

[Name removed]

52. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

63. Deleted message

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[depakid]

19. So a 17 year old does something foolhardy

and people want to fine the kid who likely he has no way pay? Except maybe through his college fund (if he even has one)?

Wow.

Americans seem to get dumber and meaner by the day.

[ohheckyeah]

27. I didn't read your post before I posted mine.

I agree 100%.

[Lorien]

66. This is your country on conservatism

I sprained my ankle last month. It was on a college campus. Friends offered to take me to the hospital, but campus security FORCED me into an ambulance and then charged me $725.00 for it, even after I said "DO NOT PUT ME IN AN AMBULANCE. I AM BROKE, UNEMPLOYED AND CANNOT PAY FOR IT". Oh, but I guess DUers would just say that I should have been more responsible and noticed that the indoor slate steps that I fell down were covered in water. :eyes: Yeah, that hiker ASKED for a helicopter search, and being a good Samaritan is SO out of vogue these days, as is honor, altruism, and humanity.

[ohheckyeah]

26. How dare a 17 year old teenager

use bad judgment. I'm sure all of us had perfect judgment at age 17.

(yes, it's sarcasm)

Seriously, he was a 17 year old who who had an inflated opinion of his own skills. That's pretty much true of all the teenagers I know. How the hell is a 17 year old going to come up with $25,000?

We really have become a nation of nasty, judgmental assholes. We've reduce everything to the almighty friggin' dollar.

[depakid]

29. They're probably trying to go after the parent's homeowner's policy

That doesn't make it any less petty- and to the folks who agree with this, well you don't deserve universal healthcare.

[ohheckyeah]

30. this really, really makes me angry.

People make mistakes, especially kids, but yeah, so do adults and I think it's just plain ridiculous to not cover things like this with our taxes.

I wonder if there is a fund somewhere to help the kid pay the fine?

People suck.

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ohheckyeah]

46. Like you have.

If you don't like my posts hide them but no, I don't have to shut up.

[nadinbrzezinski]

60. I have... and 25K is a tad on the excessive side

100 bucks, waived to work with the patrol is about right.

I know what point they were trying to make, but 25K will not make the damn point.

By the way, want to compare notes? Hung from a cliff, got into car while the rescue squad peeled it from around me and the patient. went into a few fires, and did wilderness search and rescue... Ironically one of those were boy scouts.

Also got shot at a few times, but that is a whole different story.

Oh and paid for my gear, so yes I know how much that stuff costs.

[Lorien]

67. It truly has become horrific. I've been laid up with a third degree

sprain for a month. I had to ask for help from friends. One of my more conservative "friends" wanted me to pay him for his time, along with gas costs, for picking up some medical supplies. He is a friend no longer. The sick part is that many people these days would demand the same from a "friend" who had a bit of misfortune. Greed is the only thing that motivates in this country anymore, the almighty buck is our only God.

[chatnoir]

75. Wth kind of "friend" charges to help a friend in need out?

What is going on in this country?? People are becoming so insanely greedy, selfish and small-minded.

That person is a sorry excuse for a human being, never mind "friend". I'm sorry. :hug:

[1]

28. seems fair. i'm OK with this...

[ohheckyeah]

31. And I just want to add what should

in my opinion be the most important thing....thank God he was rescued and we didn't lose a precious young life.

[kiva]

32. When I lived in Colorado, when you bought a fishing license

a portion of the fee went to Search and Rescue, a sort of very cheap insurance policy. If you became the focus of an S&R, you would not be billed (even if you were at fault because of massive stupidity). I knew many skiers who bought licenses, even though they didn't fish, for this reason. Don't know if it's still that way, but it seemed to work. :shrug:

[Solly Mack]

33. Oh my. I didn't have to pay for my rescue.

but that was many years ago

[MiniMe]

36. I can understand them charging for the rescue, but not the cost of having to

call in the helicopter from Maine because their usual helicopters were unavailable.

[Vidar]

38. Unless there were danger signs posted or he was trespassing, this seems extreme.

[Palin delenda est]

42. There were and he was. Didn't you read the linked story???

:eyes:

[Believing Is Art]

44. Did you?

It just said he went off the trail. It didn't say anything about dangers signs being posted or trespassing.

[ohheckyeah]

47. Oh, but you must be wrong

because Palin knows everything. ;-)

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

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[ohheckyeah]

50. The story didn't say there was.

:eyes:

[tabasco]

48. Time to start charging for services when your house burns down.

After all, careful people don't have fires.

[1]

53. that is how they do things were i live...

if you pay a fee to the local fire dept they will come and put out your fire.

gratis. or "free gratis" as we like to say.

don't pay the fee? they will still put out that fire. maybe. they would take forever to get out here. and charge you for their effort.

i'll take my chances...

[tabasco]

54. Where do you live?

It' some fucked up place wherever it is.

[nadinbrzezinski]

55. Rural Fire District

they are called subscription services. They go back to, believe it or not, Rome and Caesar, and many folks in rural fire districts prefer it that way.

Oh we have that problem here, since we have an interface between the rural and urban distracts and we have a high fire risk. The state steps in with state rigs to prevent that fucked up way of doing business... since the needs of the many, aka the rest of us, outweigh the needs of leaving the local volunteer fire department covering the local rural district take its sweet time...

That leads to some other issues, but believe you me, some of the folks in the local rural districts don't want to pay no damn taxes to lower response time...

[tabasco]

62. I live in as rural a place as you can get east of the Miss. R.

The VFD will put out a fire at anybody's house.

Why should I be surprised that ancient Rome had a system like you describe?

I like to think we have advanced civilization a bit since then.

[nadinbrzezinski]

74. Question, is your VFD working on a subscription service?

Some departments don't do that. Others do.

And yes, the subcription services were the invention of Caesar.

They were also all the rage in the US, even in cities, in the 19th century. If you go to any older city in the US, some of the buildings still have the bronze plaque statign what fire company had the contract. In fact, a piece of trivia, but some of New York's fire houses, go back to that era.

Oh and Rome was pretty advanced... they even had silly shit like steam technology figured out... but had a very cheap source of labor, hence why it never was applied for industrial use. They also had mills, using hydro power, that were extremely efficient and could even models of efficiency today.

So to answer your quetion, no, civilization hasn't advanced that much. In some ways, we spent a few centuries recovering all the lost knowledge of the classics, during that lovely time called the middle ages.

Now we have surpassed Rome, in some respects, but in others, we've caught on, see internal plumbing.

Oh and even their practice of medicine was pretty advanced.

I know, people are shocked to learn that even the Ancients had advanced stuff. Mind you, Rome is not a place I would have liked to live... but when you know Roman history, you realize that Rome is still here. Read the US Constitution... The Laws pervade it as well as the very ROMAN principle of Natural Law.

[mitchtv]

76. they want to start it with ambulance service

around here in Cathedral City. I presume for uninsured.

[nadinbrzezinski]

51. Oy... I can see a finger waggle

for not being prepared, perhaps a hundred dollar fine just as a wake up call, and make that money go into supplies. And that is a big iff.

But this was a RESCUE.

Lord knows how many of those I went to and we didn't charge a cent... and trust me, the car went into the rushing waters of a river is more than tempting. On the other hand, such WATER HIGH RISK rescues are charged for REGULARLY on this side of the border.

[Maru Kitteh]

56. If the kid was driving home for Thanksgiving in fog and got caught in a multi-car pile-up, should he

Be charged for the State Patrol officers called to the scene and the jaws of life to extract him from his car?

I could see it if the kid was willfully negligent in this case. It just doesn't really look to me like he was.

[nadinbrzezinski]

58. FYI local CITY RUN ambulance service

charged when they transported my dad to the ER when he broke his hip.

There were some issues that I raised with medical control as well, but they did. In some places they do...

Of course we could solve that with fair taxes, that cover these services, but hey folks prefer to pay out of pocket.

I could see a SMALL fine just to make a point, since he did leave a marked trail... but 25K is a bit excessive. My idea of the fine... 100 bucks, to be waived with work for the patrol.

[JVS]

59. This sucks, and he should get the fine lowered

"Mason's rescue was particularly expensive because the helicopters the state typically used were unavailable, and a helicopter from Maine had to be brought in, Acerno said."


Not his fault, send the extra bill to those in charge of keeping the regular helicopters ready

[nadinbrzezinski]

61. They are trying to recoup the cost

this is part of our tight budgets, but this has more than just a few problems

[lame54]

64. He's now going to have utilize his burger flipping skills

[formercia]

65. Bankruptcy Merit Badge.

:rofl:

[Kadie]

69. That about sums it up.

How is a 17 year old going to pay a $25,000 fine?


:shrug:

[Deja Q]

72. You get a DUzy! And I'm off to grab a

boozy.

What would I do with a floozy anyway? Well, nothing that anybody hasn't told me to do before... :spray:

[Deja Q]

71. He should have pulled himself up by his own bootstraps; nobody owes anybody anything.

:sarcasm:

Maybe $12k.

And maybe the scout system should have taught him how to climb those fancy fresh rocks beforehand...

:shrug:

[Odin2005]

73. This is BS.

Holy Christ, I think his whole ordeal is enough of a lesson to not do such stupid things again. $25,000 fine? That is fucking disgusting and unreasonable.

[RichardRay]

77. Good.

He's lucky there wasn't another zero on the end of that number. Too bad it's his folks who will probably have to come up with the cash.

I live and work in an area where there are several rescues like this each week during summer and winter season. I'm sick and tired of it. It's supposed to be the god-forsaken wilderness! If somebody wants to travel solo in unfamiliar terrain in harsh conditions then dieing is a perfectly reasonable outcome. The other alternative would be to have an insurance policy that covered it, but in a country where we can't even provide health insurance rescue insurance is probably a ways away.

Better to have skills, experience,luck and friends; sounds like this guy had only one of those.

[City of Mills]

82. This is why I'm for the death penalty

Kidding, obviously but hey, if no one good lost in the woods, wouldn't rescue folks be out of a job? He's trying to help the economy!

As a Massachusetts resident, this makes me want to go for a walk in the White Mountains of NH. Without a map or compass, of course...