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What really happened at Chappaquiddick?

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CTyankee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 02:53 PM
Original message
Poll question: What really happened at Chappaquiddick?
Edited on Sat Jul-11-09 03:03 PM by CTyankee
With the 40th anniversary of this event coming up on July 18th, I thought we could explore what DUers think really happened. I am old enough to have remembered the incident well, and how torn I was about what went on that night.
One theory at the time had it that Kennedy was not even in the car and Kopechne drove over the embankment into the water by accident. See http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,942138-2,00.html. I don't believe that Ted Kennedy "let her die" as the RW would have it; but I am not convinced that his story was completely true...

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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 02:56 PM
Response to Original message
1. other: who gives a rat's ass?
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CTyankee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. I thought that after 30 years time it would be interesting to see how history had
treated the incident. It was a really big deal at the time and has been used, at various times, by the RW as a Big Stick to hit liberals over the head with.
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Tangerine LaBamba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #1
34. Second that -
why does this incident always come up? It's as if that's all that ever happened in the life of Ted Kennedy.

How come we're not doing polls about how Chimpy Fucknuts stayed out of Vietnam, or how Cheney dodged the draft, or Newt's divorces, or - oh, take your pick?

This needs to be stopped. Enough is enough. The man's led an exemplary life, done more good than any of us will ever accomplish if we had a hundred lifetimes, and one tragic error - haven't we all made really big mistakes that shame us when we think of them? - should not define him.

Rat's ass, indeed........................
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CTyankee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #34
58. I would agree with you except that it is such a part of our political culture
that it assumes a tragic stature (and perhaps that is generational). I remember being so profoundly affected by it. My very first vote was for JFK. His assassination was a hugely defining moment in my life and that of my entire generation. The same could be said for RFK's rise and his assassination. Then Chappaquiddick. It is very difficult for me to accept and even "hear" your complaint, altho I must because you have a generational voice that is equally as valid as mine, of course.

I agree with you, tho, that Kennedy has, through his devotion to public service, done SO much to help so many people that we should all be eternally grateful for him. I am not dissing him here. I WOULD like to get some insights on how history has judged him. Call it the "academic" in me...it's a worthy topic from that perspective, don't you agree?:hi:
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Tangerine LaBamba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #58
65. I was a freshman in college in November of 1963 -
I was in South America when MLK, Jr. was murdered, and I had just landed in Miami for a short trip home when RFK was shot. I stayed in the airport for the whole night, until the news came that he had died.

Life-changing, yet. Transformational, yes.

I remember being at a classmate's uncle's vacation home in Rockaway when Teddy was in that plane crash, and I remember the conversation we had about a contract being out on the Kennedy brothers.

But, Chappaquiddick was not a big deal for me, not like the murders. To put it coldly, Kopechne had no meaning for me, an unfortunate girl who died, but no one who might have influenced my life. Plus, I was launching my own life, and the selfishness of the young can carry them a long way.

We have all made terrible mistakes, and I daresay none of us wants those mistakes periodically splashed across the front pages of web sites, newspapers, anyplace.

I'm not sure I agree that it's a worthy topic. It's certainly gossip fodder, and continues to be used by the rightwingnuts to prove how evil the Kennedys are/were. But significant? To Ted Kennedy and his family, of course. To the Kopechne family, absolutely. But, to the Americans story, I'm not sure it makes any kind of contribution. I don't know that it kept Teddy from running for President, because I vividly recall his being asked why he wanted to run, and he was stuck for an answer. I think he found his niche in the Senate, and did a splendid job there.

It's always a worthy topic to discuss, absolutely. We of that generation have a quite different set of perspectives on all of it, and, while I wish it had turned out so very differently, it's never boring..............

To us, all of us:

:toast:
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CTyankee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #65
79. what a nice remembrance! Thank you so much, tangerine!
I guess it is the closeness of the two assassinations that really clouded our tinking about Chappaquiddick. We simply did not want it to be that way. Impossible. Unthinkable.

Which is why now I am asking this question because I am really interested in how history (with liberals especially, no need to ask conservatives!) is considered NOW.

As ever, your point of view is so valued. How has history treated this event? As a student of history through my long life, I ask this question...
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shanti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-12-09 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #1
98. yes
the man's in the winter of his life. it doesn't affect our life. leave it alone.
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 03:00 PM
Response to Original message
3. 40th, not 30th.
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CTyankee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Oops! Thanks for the correction. nt
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. I knew you'd want to know while you could change it.
I've been a Teddy fan for 41 years, in spite of his initial reaction to the tragedy.

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DevonRex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 03:02 PM
Response to Original message
5. Other. I think it was a set-up.
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CTyankee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. How so? nt
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DevonRex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. Because JFK and RFK were assassinated. Isn't it a little too convenient
that this happened to Teddy? After all, surely the American people would have finally become suspicious if a THIRD Kennedy brother were assassinated, right? So Teddy's reputation was destroyed. Political assassination, wouldn't you say?

Not saying I'm certain of this. But I'm suspicious enough to wonder...
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CTyankee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. Could be, but I have always suspected that Ted was very irresponsible in those days.
He was in the shadow of his famous brothers and drank an awful lot. He just seemed reckless to me, and I revered JFK and RFK.

At any rate, I also believe that the years that passed and his remorse and realization that he was the standard bearer for the family made him a better man and he devoted himself to public service as a result.
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DevonRex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. I think we should all reconsider what we assumed or suspected about Teddy.
Those rat bastard republicans would do anything to discredit a Kennedy. And through it all he has served well and loyally.
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Sebastian Doyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #20
25. Just because Teddy may have been driving drunk
...doesn't mean his brake lines weren't cut. Or the car sabotaged in some other way. One doesn't exclude the other.
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CTyankee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #25
30. That doesn't really make a lot of sense to me.
Edited on Sat Jul-11-09 04:07 PM by CTyankee
I have seen a map that shows where the car started from and where it ended up. To get to the ferry taking them to Edgartown (where they were going) they would have to have turned left at an intersection. It was late and very dark and deserted. For some reason the car turned right and headed towards the embankment where it went into the water. The bridge there only takes you to a thin strip of beach (where you need to deflate your tires in order to drive on it). It makes sense to me that the turn left was either his mistake because he was too drunk to know better or that he wasn't in the car at the time. There was no reason for Kennedy and Kopechne to go to the barrier strip.

Chappaquiddick is not at all well lit. It is and has been very rustic and secluded. Only 30% of Martha's Vineyard is paved to this day! That's how they want it there...here is a map so you can envision it better http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&tab=wl. You have to enter "Chappaquiddick" in the Search box, tho...sorry.
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Tan Gent Donating Member (137 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #15
23. Well heck, you must be right and that's why he was never elected to anything.
:shrug:
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DevonRex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. You do realize that JFK was assassinated while president and that RFK was
assassinated while RUNNING for president, right? So stands to reason that somebody might not like a Kennedy being president. With that incident, Teddy would never go higher than Senator from Massachusettes. And that's just the way republicans wanted it.
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Tan Gent Donating Member (137 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #27
35. As it happened, I was in Dallas the day JFK was killed by Oswald
and in the Air Force when Bobby was assassinated. I remember them well as I was politically active at both times. When Teddy screwed up, I was not surprised. Not happy either.
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Fearless Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #35
49. How astoundingly empty of actual content! Bravo and welcome!
To be frank, I'm not supporting or negating any view of yours, but if you want to last around here, you'll want to stick to the more relevant when supporting points. Being in Dallas doesn't make you an expert on JFK or the assassination any more than being in New York City, London, Madrid, Oklahoma City, etc. makes you an expert on terrorism.
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Tan Gent Donating Member (137 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #49
54. I merely mentioned those facts to show that I was around then
and was paying attention. It is possible, I suspect, that some posters here were not. Are you suggesting that I must adhere to some particular set of allegations...like yours in particular...to avoid being tossed out of here?
That's ...interesting to say the least.

I will however award you points for pure snide.
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Fearless Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #54
56. Not at all...
Actually what I'm saying was two entirely separate statements, neither of which was snide. You can believe that or not, I couldn't care less.

The first is that the comment you made does not make you an expert. In fact the further comment you made still does not make you an expert. Just because you were alive means nothing in regards to the topic in debate. The fact is, few if anyone (myself included) here is truly capable of educated opinions on the topic discussed.

The second point is that you will of your own free will decide this place is not for you with comments in that vein. Certainly it isn't against any rules or regulations to say what you said, but there are those who will feast on that. It was me giving a friendly attempt at advice for a new poster so that you don't have issues with fellow posters in the future.

Clearly the advice was unwanted, so have a nice day anyways,

Fearless.
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Tan Gent Donating Member (137 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #56
62. My mistake. I will be forever in your debt for the sage advice.
Thank you very much.
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Fearless Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 08:15 PM
Response to Reply #62
88. You're entirely welcome.
:+
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MinM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #15
28. Brian De Palma's "Blow Out" (1981)
Edited on Sat Jul-11-09 03:37 PM by MinM
Starts with a Chappaquiddickesque scene:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khsPBdyBxlY

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blow_Out
The film alludes to elements of the Watergate scandal and the JFK assassination.<4> The film also recalls elements of the Chappaquiddick incident,<3> although De Palma intentionally tried to downplay the similarities...



Democratic Underground - Ted Kennedy survived a fatal plane crash in 1964. - Democratic Underground


Sen. Edward M. Kennedy smiles and waves a bandaged hand from the back of an ambulance in this July 9, 1964 file photo, after being transferred from Northampton, Mass. to New England Baptist Hospital, in Boston to treat injuries sustained in a private airplane crash. Medical Corpsman Roger Eckert, of Buffalo, N.Y., left, helps the senator move. Kennedy underwent surgery Friday Oct. 12, 2007 to repair a partially blocked artery in his neck, which was discovered during an examination of a back injury from the 1964 plane crash.

http://realhistoryarchives.blogspot.com/2006/05/sen-edward-kennedys-plane-downed-by.html">Real History Blog: Sen. Edward Kennedy's Plane Downed by Lightning?
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DevonRex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. Thank you SO much for that information and those links!!!!
:hug:

I had a conversation with somebody here about this quite a while back, and now can't remember who it was. There was also something in the Nixon tapes that was quite suspicious. I wish I could remember...
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MinM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-12-09 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #31
100. You are welcome.
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tibbiit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #15
29. I have always thought this
If they (the pukes at the time were just as evil as today, they just didn't have talk radio, newspapers, cable tv and internets) don't assassinate by bullet, then by character weakness... ted drinking and the clenis.
THey needed to get rid of all kennedys... with that in mind... what about jfk jr?
tib
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DevonRex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. We'd have to be brain dead not to have wondered about JFK jr.
I mean, seriously.
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TheUnspeakable Donating Member (960 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-12-09 06:05 AM
Response to Reply #32
94. Have you ever seen this?
The Assassination of JFK Junior - Murder by Manchurian Candidate

Perhaps not an air-tight case-but it raises some very interesting questions.
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Raspberry Donating Member (377 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #15
41. This didn't "happen" to Teddy
It happened to a young girl names Mary Jo. She died. Stop acting like Ted Kennedy was the victim here. If a Repub had driven his car off a bridge with a girl trapped inside, then failed to report the accident for many, many hours, everyone here would be calling for prison. Instead, Ted Kennedy's reputation was hardly destroyed. He stayed out of jail, and he has been in the Senate for 40 years since. Seems to me, his life has been just fine. Mary Jo Kopechne, however, has been dead for 40 years.

Furthermore, if it had been a set-up, how could "they" have predicted that the girl would die? Or that Ted wouldn't report the accident? No matter the cause of the accident, he was responsible for his actions afterward. There really isn't much of an excuse not to have reported it immediately, with rescue/recovery efforts started ASAP.
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undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #41
47. Do you believe everything happens exactly
as the mainstream media reports it? Hook, line, sinker?
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Tan Gent Donating Member (137 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #41
48. You are risking life and limb here by questioning this (or any) conspiracy theory.
I'm new to posting but I've been reading here for years. I know what I'm talking about.
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Raspberry Donating Member (377 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #48
50. Thanks for the words of advice
I guess I don't understand why EVERYTHING that happens has to be part of some huge conspiracy theory.
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Tan Gent Donating Member (137 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #50
51. Yes...there are conspiracies and there are CONspiracies.
Their evilness varies greatly depending on whose ox is gored.
:D
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #48
57. it's the opposite.
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Tan Gent Donating Member (137 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #57
69. Who could possibly take issue with such impeccable logic?
:silly:
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #41
85. I agree with you
I think Kennedy is a phenomenal Senator. He also has to be a basically good person NOW or it would be difficult to explain the incredible affection that people like Senator Kerry have for him. (then his treatment of his wife was not good either.)

I don't see the need of some to make this into a conspiracy theory where he is innocent. That was not even his own story. You can argue the difficulties of his life, but this is still something he will always have in his past.
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #5
40. Agreed.
They could not assassinate a third brother.
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Adsos Letter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 03:03 PM
Response to Original message
7. I think he panicked, as humans are known to do, then lied about it.
as humans are also known to do.
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CTyankee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. I thought that at the time but I was intrigued by the theory that he wasn't even there.
The theory was that Kennedy was driving Kopechne to the ferry to go back to Edgartown but stopped when he thought he was being followed by a police car. Kopechne, who didn't know Chappy very well, then turned right when she should have turned left and wound up going into the water next to a small bridge that connected Chappy with a narrow barrier island that wraps around to Edgartown. Kennedy walked to the ferry, not knowing what happened to her.
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 03:04 PM
Response to Original message
8. I have no fucking idea.
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Sebastian Doyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 03:04 PM
Response to Original message
9. Let's see.... they killed JFK. They killed RFK.......
Anybody ever consider the fact that "someone" might have been trying for a "sweep" and eliminate the last Kennedy brother before he became a threat (perhaps by calling for investigations into the murder of his brothers).

And hadn't Teddy already survived a plane crash by this time?

:tinfoilhat: Tinfoil? Not really by much, in this case.
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DevonRex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #9
18. Exactly. nt
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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #9
55. just coinkydinks
:sarcasm:
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Common Sense Party Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #9
89. "They" killed JFK and RFK? The same "they"? You have some sort
of evidence that Oswald and Sirhan were in cahoots? In the same Skull and Bones secret society? I'd LOVE to see that evidence.
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Sebastian Doyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-12-09 02:35 AM
Response to Reply #89
93. Oswald may have been ONE of the shooters who hit JFK
But if you believe Sirhan ever was in a position to kill Bobby, then you probably believe the moon is made out of green cheese.
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givemebackmycountry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 03:11 PM
Response to Original message
12. I heard Poppy Bush had something to do with it.
Off to do a little bit of research.
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CTyankee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Let us know what you find! nt
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HopeHoops Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 03:11 PM
Response to Original message
14. It was Colonel Mustard in the Library with the Candlestick.
I thought that shit was resolved years ago!

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pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 03:12 PM
Response to Original message
16. I had to vote "other" because
even though I'm old enough to remember the incident, I wasn't there, don't know what actually happened, and don't know what was going through Teddy's mind at the time.




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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 03:12 PM
Response to Original message
17. His drunk ass ran off the road and left her in the car to die.
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Sebastian Doyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #17
26. If only Mary Jo had been packing heat.
she would still be alive today. :sarcasm:
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Tan Gent Donating Member (137 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #26
37. That's not sarcasm, it is just sick.
...
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Sebastian Doyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. Well, if you hadn't just arrived from Freepistan
you would understand the history of the poster I responded to, and why that sarcasm was indeed appropriate.

Enjoy your visit. And your pizza. :hi:
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Tan Gent Donating Member (137 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #38
43. Oh, I see - you are one of the pure ones.
You can probably get me tossed...a tribute to the Democratic big tent, obviously.
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #43
60. He just doesn't like losing arguments, pay him no mind. Welcome to DU.
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Tan Gent Donating Member (137 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #60
63. Oh shucks...thanks!
:D
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CTyankee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #38
80. Well, since I am a liberal grandma at age 69, who cast her first vote for for JFK in 1960
I find your post very funny. And ever since then I have worked for Clergy and Laity Concerned for Vietnam, the ACLU in New YOrk, the ACLU in Washington, DC, the League of Women Voters (D.C headquarters) and Planned Parenthood of CT.

Would you care to question this, my dear Sebastion? Any time...take your time...:hi:
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #26
59. Maybe if she had shot his drunk ass before he started driving.
She would certainly have been out of prison long ago. Please do not construe this post in any way as advocating shooting drunk drivers.


David
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ColbertWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #26
87. Guns solve all our problems.
I forgot where my sarcasm tag went.

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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-12-09 01:05 AM
Response to Reply #87
91. Why do people keep making idiotic comments like that?
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Mudoria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #17
39. Truth
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emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #17
82. Exactly.
Waited hours to report it.
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tritsofme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 03:18 PM
Response to Original message
19. Everyone who says "who cares?" The the answer is obviously Ted Kennedy.
It was this incident more than any other, we should remember, that stopped him from being President.

His life has a huge investment in the fallout from Chappaquiddick.

I don't know what really happened out there, but I will say it does not surprise me when wealthy powerful people use their wealth and power to avoid responsibility for their actions.
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Lex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 03:22 PM
Response to Original message
21. One of the right-wing's favorite masturbatory topics.
Along with the Clenis.

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Common Sense Party Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #21
90. Just like Pickles' vehicular manslaughter got several DU'ers rocks off
over the last 8 years.
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Tan Gent Donating Member (137 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 03:23 PM
Response to Original message
22. Teddy fucked up. There isn't any rocket science here.
It didn't destroy his reputation to me, any more than Bill Clinton's did but I sure wish they both had been more forthcoming. Condoning stuff like they did is not the way to win over traditionalists.
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CTyankee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #22
33. nobody died when Clinton had his affairs. This is different.
So we can't be too cavalier about this. However, I do put some credence in the theory that he wasn't there by the time the car went into the water and that it was just an accident. His story didn't make too much sense...
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Tan Gent Donating Member (137 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. Well that's true, of course and I didn't mean to imply it was different in any substantive way
with respect to the sociopolitical upshot. If he wasn't there, he never did manage to produce evidence for that allegation. Bottom line, I thought he was sufficiently penitent for essential absolution -by me, anyway-.
I have no idea how it played with the unknown and unseen magicians of the universe.
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #22
53. I Love The Kennedys
But when it comes to matters of life and death we shouldn't be concerned about tactics like winning over traditionalists...
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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 04:22 PM
Response to Original message
42. Wow, for a second, I thought I was on FreeRepublic.com
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Lex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #42
44. yeah, seriously
only my freeper uncle goes on and on about this crap



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undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 04:27 PM
Response to Original message
45. Other: Somebody was trying to kill Ted Kennedy.
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Fearless Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 04:31 PM
Response to Original message
46. Hey, reality check... was anyone there?? Guess then it's just speculation...
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CTyankee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #46
61. It really is. You are absolutely right.
That is what makes it interesting. I have always had this question about it in the back of my mind...
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 04:43 PM
Response to Original message
52. I Have An Autographed Photo Of Ted Kennedy Which I Gor After The Accident
My mom and I worked on his 1980 campaign...

It was so long ago...I thank the Lord I was never put in that position, given all the time I was driving when I shouldn't have been...

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hyphenate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 05:34 PM
Response to Original message
64. I thought the official line, after modern forensics,
was that Kennedy was a passenger, not the driver.

It doesn't bother me, and I can see why some people don't want to hear about it anymore, and that's all fine, but we Democrats always seem to let the repugs bully us in discussions like this. Senator Byrd and his participation in the KKK is another tale always being brought up by them--Dems don't seem to have the backbone to trade stories one-on-one, and while I attribute that to our superior propensity of turning the other cheek, it makes us look particularly wishy-washy in appearance.

We've been in these situations so many times, and no one has stepped up to the plate and tell the repugs off, in public, and settled the topics right then and there. If we can't do that, they will continue to spew their worst, and make us look like cowards ad infinitum.

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Tangerine LaBamba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #64
81. Absolutely correct -
I'm so sick of Democrats who can't take it - Harry Reid is their poster boy.

I want Democrats to be ballsy and get down there and slap together the tits of those rightwingnut assholes. That's what I want. We've got a lot more on theirs than they ever had on any of ours..............
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 05:56 PM
Response to Original message
66. CT Yankee - devote your energy to figuring out one of the mysteries of
Edited on Sat Jul-11-09 05:59 PM by peacetalksforall
the past administration. Or maybe you can work in the popular ideas about the death of Marilyn Monroe.

You're free to do it, but I think the territory is well covered by right wing haters. What good does it do for more opinions? Has anything happened recently to shed new light on it.

You're great with the spot light.
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CTyankee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #66
76. You know, you really have the wrong person here. I am a 69 year old grandmother of four.
As it happens, I have a Master's Degree in Liberal Studies, which is not a right wing territory, by any stretch.

What does it do for any stretch? Well, what do you take off the table for intellectual discussion? You tell me.

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MrSlayer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 05:59 PM
Response to Original message
67. The ratfuckers were trying to kill Kennedy but failed.
And unfortunately a young woman was killed instead.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #67
70. John Dean might know, according to Nixon tapes...
"If Teddy knew the bear trap he was walking into at Chappaquiddick. . . ." -- John Dean on White House tapes.

Ted Kennedy almost died when his light airplane crashed in early 1964, killing the pilot and an aide to the Senator. Kennedy broke his back in the "accident." Sen. Birch Bayh (D-Ind. and father to present D-Ind.) kept Kennedy alive overnight in the sub-freezing temps.
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ellie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #70
75. Hey Octafish!
Thanks for the link! You always have the best links!
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-12-09 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #70
99. WOW... I have never seen that quote
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Tan Gent Donating Member (137 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #67
71. The ratfuckers just didn't use enough thermite.
Fortunately for Ted...less so for the young woman.
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-12-09 01:11 AM
Response to Reply #67
92. And I think THAT is the correct answer
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Raine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 05:59 PM
Response to Original message
68. I think Teddy was drunk
Edited on Sat Jul-11-09 06:00 PM by Raine
he tried and tried to save her but because he was loaded he couldn't. :-( I love Teddy though, I love all the Kennedys.
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ColbertWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 06:14 PM
Response to Original message
72. Other: Teddy did not know how to help another person from a rapidly sinking car.
Nor did Kopechne know how to get out of one.

Even if Teddy wasn't drunk off his ass, did he know how to get a passenger out of a flooded vehicle?

Does anyone?

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CTyankee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #72
74. Boy, is that a good question! I don't know...does anybody else? nt
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emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #72
84. Maybe so. He waited hours to
report the accident.
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ColbertWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #84
86. That's something else altogether.
Maybe his advisers made him wait to sober up? Or, maybe he got things straightened out with the lawyers first?

Who knows.

I'm just asking about the time in the car.

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JonLP24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-12-09 08:13 AM
Response to Reply #72
96. Wait for the car to submerge fully underwater... then open the door
You can't open the door when you're half way in because the pressure is not equalized. Wait for the car to become fully emerged then open the door.

Of course confusion and disorientation as well as panic can play a major role in getting out or helping someone out of a sinking car.
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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 06:21 PM
Response to Original message
73. BFEE has to be part of it somewhere
:sarcasm:
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PretzelWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 06:52 PM
Response to Original message
77. it was the one-armed man
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Hepburn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 06:54 PM
Response to Original message
78. Years ago on another messsage board...
...I met a local who I became friends with. The skinny ~~ supposedly ~~ is that at the time of the accident, he was not in the car. Long explanation to this ~~ which I forget most of, so I will not post ~~ but I recall from all the evidence presented to me, I fully agreed with what was said.

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CTyankee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #78
83. I read the book on this called "The Bridge at Chappaquiddick."
Edited on Sat Jul-11-09 07:51 PM by CTyankee
The theory was that he got out of the car because a police car was following him and Kopechne. He didn't want to be seen with her. So he got out and she continued on but she turned right instead of left (to get to the ferry to Edgartown) and ended up in the water at the little bridge at Chappaquiddick going to the sand spit.

It kind of makes since if you think about it. To think differently, you would have to accept that Kennedy went all the way to the little bridge, left it after the car sank, walked all the way back to the ferry, etc.

It doesn't add up to me...
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1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-12-09 06:09 AM
Response to Original message
95. does it really matter at this point?
teddy is effectually brain dead at this point.

why drag his good name through the ashes?



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CTyankee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-12-09 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #95
97. Yes, you make a good point...nt
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